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Jesus Camp
Posted Wednesday, May 28, 2008, at 9:35 AM<< Previous | Read comments | Respond | Email link | Next >>
So, I finally got around to watching Jesus Camp last night. A lot of my friends have seen it and were completely horrified by it, and it seems to have gotten some pretty good reviews. To be honest, I have really mixed feelings about it. I really liked the beginning of it where it seemed like they were focusing on just a few of the kids and on the woman who ran the camp.
But it seems like the film makers lost their focus when the kids got to camp. It also seems like they were trying too hard to make the movie be like a horror movie for liberals. In fact, the woman who runs the children's camp says at the end that she hopes that liberals see this movie and get scared - which made me wonder how much of the scenes in the movie were for the camera. Like would she really have prayed over her microphone before church for no technical problems if the cameras weren't there? I tend to really like documentries, but the more I think about it, the more I really didn't like this one. It disintegrates from the kids at camp, to the kids in DC in the winter protesting abortion, to the kids hanging out in Colorado with Ted Haggard - there was no explaination as to why the kids were in those places or any commentary about why they were there. Have any of you seen it? If not and you're interested, I caught a showing of it on A&E, I'm sure they'll re-run it again. Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
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I'll have to see if I can find it and set this movie to record. Sounds like something I would be interested in watching.
I have seen a few documentaries on religious cults, and by the end of the show, I am going off about how easily people can be brainwashed into thinking negative thoughts.
One particular documentary was based on a cult that thought the end of the world was going to be Oct. 31, 2007. The leader was supposedly the embodiment of Christ himself (which is BS), and God spoke with him directly saying that he "needed" to lay naked with the minor girls in the cult. God told him he was the only man that could engage in sexual intamacy. He ended up having relations with his son's wife, because that is what God told him to do. On the night of Oct. 31, 2007, the cameras were waiting outside the settlement to see if anything was going to happen. As you can guess, nothing happened. Not even a flicker with the power. Everyone was still alive and well the next day. The leader of the cult said that he transformed into something "greater" that night, which was a big difference from the end of the world.
By the end of that show, I was mad! God would NEVER ask a person to commit infidality, and he would never ask a person to lay naked with younger people.
I am a Christian, but I refuse to be told when the end of the world will be, or how to think, and I believe in a good, positive God.
I just can't stand extreame religious people who think it is perfectly acceptable to scare people into believeing one thing.
If you like crazy documentries - "Devil's Playground" is really good. It's about Amish teenagers. I also really liked "Hell House," which was about a church's halloween hell house.
Was the one you saw about this guy (http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/C/can_you_believe_it/debates/cult.html)? He sounds crazy!
I want to see that.
I never really got into regular camp (secular or otherwise) or these training camps for "professional" Christians.
I can see wanting to be with like-minded people,getting extra knowledge and skills,etc.
But,I have qualms about any activity that excludes all other aspects of the person-whether it focuses on the military,art,evangelism,science,fashion, business,politics or even comedy.
Too often,such specialization gets caught up in a very cynical agenda.
Technique and strategy take precedence over people.
The person becomes a means of promoting the objective rather than the work enhancing the individual.
I'm not sure I can articulate this quibble properly but,on an entry level,I'd like to see special interests become part of a healthy individual's varied and dynamic life.
I'd want them to provide personal satisfaction to those involved instead of the people becoming minions for the cause.
This is especially true if the activity is supposed to be about recreation.
Fun and accomplishment are far from mutually exclusive but,sometimes,the purpose of doing something is nothing more and nothing less than having a good time and enjoying the people you are with.
"Branding" people,as Christians or anything else,gets in the way of discovering and cultivating ALL that they are.
It forces people to see them in terms of that one context.
Even more,they are not compared to the reality of that context but to its stereotype.
Something's wrong when "That person is a Christian" doesn't equate with "That Christian is a person."
More than with anything else,our ideologies are incredibly private and personal.
They need to grow naturally and be exercised as their nature dictates.
A "one-size-fits-all" regime imposed on all comers doesn't seem to ask what the individual needs for his life-or what God wants for him.
Is evangelism better served by a course in "marketing" a religion or by living a Gospel where integrity and joy are an integral part of every thing an individual experiences?
quantumcat - it seems like what the film makers wanted the viewers to do is come away with a feeling that "those" people are crazy. I don't think it worked out that way that they intended.
I went to church camp during the summers while growing up and look how I turned out.
Um, I heard you all snickering. SILENCE! :-P
Seriously though, I went to Short Mountain Bible Camp for several years when the Church of Christ would hold their camp and I had a blast and it was fun. Yes, we had chapel each day and prayed before each meal but it didnt seem that fanatical to me. I made lots of friends there and always hated coming home afterwards.
jaxspike, I completely understand that you would've had a good time and would've hated coming home...when I was little I went to horse back riding camp (funny that I should move to Shelbyville...), and hated leaving, too. Have you seen the movie? Was your camp like that? I guess one of the things I didn't like about the camp (rather than the movie as a whole), was that the adults kept making the little kids feel bad about themselves. Maybe it's just me, but I honestly don't undertand what a 6 year old needs to feel bad about.
Camps are suppose to be fun and uplifting, not focusing on the negative aspects of life. Abortion and the end of the world are not for young kids ears. IMO. I never learned about those things until I was in middle school.
I did a search for that movie, Jesus Camp, and did not find any airtimes. I'll have to search for the other documetaries you mentioned.
And I can not get that link to work! Arg! LoL
What was so wrong with the camps like cfrich and jaxspike went to?
What was so bad about the kind of worship experience seen in "Say Amen,Somebody"?
Instead,I see a version that seems as calculated as "Best Defense"'s characters approach to war or either the Moobi or 'Buddy Christ' promoters in "Dogma."
The people who buy into a simple and sincere belief in life's verities are not naive dupes to be manipulated.
I wish the people who don't believe in such truths would get out of the business of selling them and that the ones that do would have enough confidence in the "product" to let it sell itself on its own merits.
Gimmicks,brain-washing and exploitation are for the folks trying to unload "Brand X"-not for satisfied customers who are walking advertisements for an abundant life.
Mary, I completely agree with you - that's what I was horrified about in the movie, was that they were pushing the agenda of abortion and end of the world scare tactics on children. I don't think that a 10 year old really understands what either thing means. I think it's one thing to answer the kids questions if he hears about it, say at school, but it's another thing completely to use children, who don't understand, in pro-life rallies (regardless of my feelings on abortion, I don't think that using a child should be a tactic in getting people over to your side). Also, try this link about the movie, from imdb.com - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486358/
quantumcat - A completely agree with this: "I wish the people who don't believe in such truths would get out of the business of selling them and that the ones that do would have enough confidence in the "product" to let it sell itself on its own merits." The whole movie was like one big gimmick - like the filmmakers were in it to show the rest of us what freaks the evangelicals are, and the people in the movie were doing it to scare the liberals into converting. The more I think about it, the more I don't like that movie.
No, my camp was nothing like the one in Jesus Camp. They didn't breach any fire and brimstone messages or talk about sex or abortions. The chapel sermons were mostly about loving each other and doing good deeds and living a good life. It was always positive. If a camper had a serious situation they wanted to talk about then they could talk to one of the counselors. It was just a very positive and uplifting experience and they had activities that reflected that like swimming, horseback riding, crafts, and etc. The last year I went I was a camp counselor in training and still had fun and tried to make sure my campers did too. I do remember having to sit through Disney's The Little Mermaid three times in one day . . . so I probably could sing the whole movie still. LOL!
Anyway, Jesus Camp I think takes things a bit to the extreme and tries to portray all religious camps like that when in reality they aren't (or at least the ones I have been to). I found bible camp more rewarding than 4-H camp and a more fun experience because there was less rules and less differences between people. I am not the most religious person out there so my perception of bible camp isn't tinted either.
I kind of figured that most religious camps are not like the one in the movie, but that's not what the filmmakers want us to think, which is unfortunate. I think that given the access they had to the kids and the camp, they could've made an amazing movie, but they blew it.
The world used to be able to connect the words "camp" and "Gospel" and think revivals and then the Chautauqua movement.
Later,it got to be about getting the Lord to "Kum Ba Yah" amidst S'mores and lanyards.
Just when we need the former definitions the most,we're issued "camp" in the sense of distortion and parody.
It's bad enough when outsiders have to work to make a group look scary or ridiculous.
It's another when the people denigrated in an "Expelled:No Intelligence Allowed","Jesus Camp","Hell House" or a Michael Moore documentary do so much to sabotage their own image.
I hadn't thought of the word 'camp' in Jesus Camp, in the sense of camp - like parody camp - it makes complete sense though, especially in the terms of this movie.
Did you not like Hell House? I thought it was pretty good.
I liked the documentary-and some similar ones.
One of them ( I don't think it was Hell House but I've not seen it in a while.) showed a very deceptive,over-the-top set up that blindsided people with misleading cautionary tales when they were expecting a traditional haunted house.
People who really believe they have truth on their side shouldn't need to rely on hard sell tactics and disinformation.
If they inadvertantly present dubious material,they need to correct the mistatements.
First,because it's just the right thing to do.
Secondly,because anything less damages their credibility and leaves them wide open to criticism and ridicule.
Unfair or unfactual skits could prove a stumbling block for those just begining to turn toward God.
Lastly,conservative Christians have been the victims of inaccurate depictions themselves.
They shouldn't want to do the same to others.
Unfortunately,there are enough negative realities out there to scare the Hell out of anyone even without distortion or embellishment.
Some of these documentaries show tons of money and man-hours going to propaganda but not much effort going to local missions.
They show dozens of apparent conversions but don't show the follow-up and whether the programs resulted in a lasting spiritual experience.
I've been to productions like this that were performed in a very skilled and responsible manner but they might not get the coverage that the sheeple and manipulators get.
"People who really believe they have truth on their side shouldn't need to rely on hard sell tactics and disinformation."
That is so true - and what these movies keep showing is the hard sell tactics.
When my husband was teaching in Philadelphia, it was at a small Catholic college - I took some classes there and was required to take some religion classes. In one of my classes, we visited area churches to find out more about their religions (Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, Evangelical, Anglican, Swedenborgian, Quaker...). It was really cool to learn about different religions from the people practising them rather than from books. However, it was also interesting to see which church's spokepersons would try the hard sell tactics on us. My favorite church was the evangelical mega-church because the tour guide was nice and he didn't give us the hard sell and he answered all of our questions honestly - this is compared to some of the other churches who's spokes people would give us the super hard sell as to why they were better than the Catholic school.