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Policy MakingPosted Tuesday, October 20, 2009, at 1:26 PM
I often wonder how and why people forget what they almost surely have learned at some point in their life, usually in their youth. This phenomena is the duties and operations of a legislative body. This duty is always, at all levels, one of establishing policy and nowhere is there any evidence that this is not so. In fact the Separation of Powers Doctrine dictates this is so and this Doctrine, while perhaps applicable to State and Federal Governments only, legally, it in operational fact is usually accepted at all levels of government.
Not only does this theory apply to government, it also applies to businesses. Most public companies in the United States have a board of directors, where only the Chm, CEO, CFO and/or COO, perhaps, are on this board. The bulk of the board are outsiders who have the interest of the owners (shareholders) as their primary responsibility. In every case they work to set policy for the company and dictate the executive employees carry-out said policy. From there they provide oversight only to see if the policies are being carried out and if they are working. They do not, emphatically do not, get into the day-to-day operations of the company! We have a situation here in Shelbyville that indicates this principal should be addressed. I am not a resident of Shelbyville and have not been for many years. For this reason I have not commented on the operation of the city government, but I consider Shelbyville my town and decided to take a chance on addressing an issue that has not been addressed in any way that I have read or heard. That issue is a legislative body, City Council, seeking and insisting their position is to micro-manage the city on a daily basis. Anytime this is attempted it will surely foster chaos and will probably lead to suspected, if not actual, corruption. This same scenario has caused chaos in country clubs, small town governments, many clubs, trade associations, unions and other organizations. I personally have seen several times when boards, elected to govern these institutions seek to extend their power to daily operations. Most politics is driven by the seeking of power. So be it, but the City Council should stick to its penchant for power by setting an excellent and workable policy plan for the City and leave to the executive, read Mayor and City Manager, to implement the policy and "operate" the City on a day-to-day basis.. This necessarily entails granting those so endowed the time to fail or succeed without undue demands from the Council! During this time the Council's position should be to observe only and if the policies are not being carried out or are not working, then address the issues with more appropriate policies. Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
Near lifelong resident of Bedford County. Will comment on the issues of the day in, hopefully a cogent and certainly an honest manner. Will propose discussions not usually fully addressed in the mainstream media.
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Carl if I may throw a rock from the bushes... your summation assumes that the the City Manager was carring out policy set in place by the counsel and through the vurtue of the counsel by the voters. I guess that the voters are the stock holders and the city counsel sits as the board leaving the city manager as the CEO.
I know of many times a CEO starts believing his or her own press and assumes a God complex. Maybe all that happen here was the City Manager referred to Shelbyville as his town one to many times. Maybe it was just two of the counsel members pursuaded a third if they voted in the correct manner they would end up with the managers position.
Regardless the facts or lack of, surrounding this incident any board of directors, voter or counsel members have a duty to remove a CEO if they pose a hazard to the company or in this case the City.
Then again maybe it is just small town politics at its worst. But from out on the farm it looks like someone bit off more than the City could chew in court. But who am I to say I am just a know nothing pundant from out on the farm.
outonthefarm.....Thanks for the comments.....Your statement, "Carl if I may throw a rock from the bushes... your summation assumes that the the City Manager was carring out policy set in place by the counsel and through the vurtue of the counsel by the voters. I guess that the voters are the stock holders and the city counsel sits as the board leaving the city manager as the CEO.".....I am not aware I "summated" anything......I did not intend to cast dispersions on any particular person(s) in either branch of the government. I meant to convey my opinion that there are those on the City Council and the County Commission as well, that, it seems obvious to me, think their place in life is to micro-manage the government in which they have been elected to set policy.....I say plainly, they should provide oversight and act if the executive fails to carry out policy, for any reason, including and especially incompetence. A "board" is not, and is not intended to be an "operating entity." I agree with your "summation" of the position of the various actors in this drama.
By the way, does 5.4 acres, 2-3 miles out of town qualify me being out on the farm?
Carl, I agree that no single board should try and nit pick, micro manage, dictate or manipulate the manager. I do maintain if and when the "manager" of anything begins to be motivated by his or her wishes or ego rather than those of the people that places all the actors in motion it is time form them to go. Unfortunately that is the nature of the beast that is created when one become empowered.
As far as your question, "By the way, does 5.4 acres, 2-3 miles out of town qualify me being out on the farm?" I am not so sure the amount of acreage is determinative of status. I live on 40+ . I will say that to qualify to meet "my" definition; one must posses common sense, a strong back, and a bit of humility. So I will leave it to you to ascertain if you are indeed from out on the farm.
Thats two questions in as many different blogs I have answered for you. Do you care to reciprocate and send some answers to those of use out on the farm?
brlliant "outonthefarm" absolutely brilliant response....i was waiting for Karl"s response, could it be that you have outwitted this man and left him speechless?
lol----slingshot wrote "brlliant "outonthefarm" absolutely brilliant response....i was waiting for Karl"s response, could it be that you have outwitted this man and left him speechless?" I am not sure anyone could quell carls ability to spew. However, common sense and a little humility will alway prevail from out on the farm...:)
I was waiting for "Lazarus" to come in and tell us how brilliant and inspiring this piece was and how it motivated him to go and adopt a puppy or something.
Personally, i think that it was ignorant to fire the manager after they had blatantly violated the Sunshine Law. They could simply have chosen not to renew his contract and thus avoid a potential law suit. But these guys are obviously more concerned about their own cause than of the citizens of Shelbyville. I wonder if either of these two councilmen will pay for the cities legal expenses out of their own pocket when Craig sues?
"out on the farm" I also heard about a quid pro quo deal.
Witness... it would seem you and I are more in the loop than the press. I know they are interested... trust me I have been ask to elaborate. You know if my source will let me tell all the city, paper and carl will hear a lot from out on the farm.
"I was waiting for "Lazarus" to come in and tell us how brilliant and inspiring this piece was and how it motivated him to go and adopt a puppy or something."
i didnt know that carl required affirmation from me. we alternate personalities try to stay kind of quiet, because carl doesnt know we exist, and might seek treatment if he finds out (which would be the end of us).
as far as the particulars of this case, i will keep my own counsel. however, at all levels of government it would be a big improvement if the voters had any idea of the responsibilities of the office for which they were voting. that seems unlikely to happen. by the same token, an appreciation of the organizational structure of successful organizations might help people make better evaluations of issues as they occur at the various levels of government. that is no more likely.
i hate to say it, but this is a worthwhile topic, and i can certainly see where carl is coming from (an advantage, perhaps, of occupying the same brain). disappointing, but not surprising that it has generated so few responses.
lastly, i dont know how you found out about the puppy, but it wasnt so much me adopting it as the other way around. not that dumped animals are unusual out here, but generally i do not keep them. this one was so ugly that i felt an immediate connection. and i am wondering how i classify in the out-on-the-farm scale. 30 acres, not sure the distance from town, but if you leave my place & go any direction, you are closer to some town. however, i have few cents, my back is frequently sore & tired, and humility is not something i aspired to, it was thrust upon me.
" i didnt know that carl required affirmation from me. we alternate personalities try to stay kind of quiet, because carl doesnt know we exist, and might seek treatment if he finds out (which would be the end of us)......" Lazarus you have to admit the idea that carl and you are one in the same had to be questioned. Even if we are just "know nothings" and can only "take Carl on" from the "bushes".
First, I could really see where that is the case where many egos and identities would apply. I have know carl for over 30 years and he has no idea who I am. How could he he is to busy telling everyone he is so smart. I greatly attribute this to him attempting to be the great and powerful OZ.
Anyway, one could guess, it.... could..... be a coincidence that you would pen the name he adopted after the "miracle" of being resurrected from legionaries disease. Then named his auction and lobbying endeavors Lazarus. Then send accualaoeds to every word he types.
You continue "and humility is not something i aspired to, it was thrust upon me". I can only offer, that humility like honesty, integrity and common scenes cannot be thrust upon an individual, counsel or other entity. But,rather it is something they [we] either have within them [us] or that is aspired to obtain.
It is one crop I wish I could grow and donate to the masses from out on the farm.
Good observations Carl... I mean Lazarus. Your right, this story should get more attention. Perhaps you should develop several other identities, then you and you can throw stones back and forth from the bushes only to save the day with your eloquent words of wisdom.
This, of course, will calm the masses and stop the riots and stone throwing beacause Carl would have spoken. I like that idea. It would be entertaining even if it lacks a newsworthy basis.
Oh yea, that is what blogging is all about; entertainment not news. Anyway, I hope that either, or all of you can find out more about this and promptly report back.
"Then send accualaoeds to every word he types."
well, except maybe the times i accused him of promulgating crazy talk.
I do not know for certain, but from where I stand downwind, there appears to be much more manure being produced on the farm than there is humility.
Memyslefi___ I can understand the point of view and you are right at times, then, that is depending on where you are standing. I just figure when it comes to Carl one must fight fire with fire, or manure with manure. Then there is alway the idea that if you don't like what you smell stay up wind from out on the farm....
Unfortunately, my proximity to the farm, much like the prevailing wind that blows across it, is largely driven by forces beyond my control.
I am not complaining that the farm produces too much manure, nor about the smell. I just question your calling it by a different name.
If there is some animosity between you and Mr. McClanahan, that is none of my concern. What I do find confusing is how you have known this gentleman for 30 years, harboring such obvious resentment, and yet be so certain that he does not recognize you through your words. I would like to think that if I had known someone for that amount of time, I would at least know what they thought of me, and could quickly compile a "short list" of those who may wish to discredit me.
Could it be that Mr. McClanahan does not know where to look because it is easier to hide out on the farm than to directly confront those who may have offended?
Mr. McClanahan and I share precious little common political ground, but I have found his writing to be well researched, amiable and articulate. I have not personally witnessed the egotistical behavior you point out, but have to wonder how many times he has claimed to be smart, as opposed to the number of times he has proven it. It could just be that some are intimidated by his knowledge and conviction, or find themselves envious of it.
memyselfi__ you wrote in part ".....I am not complaining that the farm produces too much manure, nor about the smell. I just question your calling it by a different name." What name would that be?
You continue..."If there is some animosity between you and Mr. McClanahan, that is none of my concern. What I do find confusing is how you have known this gentleman for 30 years, harboring such obvious resentment, and yet be so certain that he does not recognize you through your words. I would like to think that if I had known someone for that amount of time, I would at least know what they thought of me, and could quickly compile a "short list" of those who may wish to discredit me.
Could it be that Mr. McClanahan does not know where to look because it is easier to hide out on the farm than to directly confront those who may have offended?...."
WOW for someone who would often disagree with Carl ( I only address individuals with Mr. as a form of respect) you wrote..."and I share precious little common political ground, but I have found his writing to be well researched, amiable and articulate." are you sure? I to see Carl as well written and researched I just disagree with the manner in which he offers his opinion as being the only correct one.
So, would you agree with Carl that anyone who would dare "throw a rock from the bushes" is a know-nothing? Since you clam to "share precious little common political ground" you to must fit into the know-nothing[s] as well. Or is you identity know to Carl or do you hide in the bushes?
If you would read back in the various blogs you would find that Carl chose to open himself up to the "know nothing pundits" when he attempted to desuade anyone who would disagree with his "opinion" or the resume that he offered as a reason for chiming in on the "justice" or, in his would-be opinion, "lack of"" in relation to the gambling case before the courts.
"Before I am attacked by all the know-nothing pundits I will reveal my interest in this case. I have worked with....Justice
Posted Thursday, October 1, 2009, at 3:59 PM....
Personally I use to stay quiet and read the various blogs, consider the sources and the amount of pay each receives for offering them. I have in the past and will continue to enjoy the fact that everyone would have differing opinion on any given subject.
The issue I have is not just with Carl but anyone who would take the position to publicly offer their opinion and expound their purported expertise then complain that the forum they have chosen is unfair because it allows for anonymous response... I mean really how did he even go there?
Then he attempts to minimize those that dare to have a different opinion than his as a know-nothing pundit. I mean really even you in all three of your ids should see the arrogance.
You continued..." I would like to think that if I had known someone for that amount of time, I would at least know what they thought of me, and could quickly compile a "short list" of those who may wish to discredit me."
First, you are assuming that Carl, like you myself or any person, places everyone he knows on the same intellectual level as himself, second you are mistaking resentment for lack of fear. I simply have a better BS detecter than some and decided to take the side of the "know-nothing pundits". I have no need to discredit Carl. His work as an "expert" has been commenting on by the courts in their summations and speaks for itself.
You end ...."Could it be that Mr. McClanahan does not know where to look because it is easier to hide out on the farm than to directly confront those who may have offended?...."
Oh I doubt Carl would put me on his short list, you see I am (according to him) a know nothing pundit devoid of the intellectual prowess that is required to quantify as one would who be considered by Carl to have the ability to "take him on".
If Carl had taken a straight forward approach as you have he might not being questioned, challenged and critiqued. As far as hiding nothing could be further from the truth. I am about as in plain site as anyone can be from out on the farm...
memyselfi,
I think you pretty well nailed the gate shut out on the farm.
Somecommonsence ..everybody has an opinion. That is just my point..If i post my opinion you have a right to agree, disagree or ignore. I unlike Carl did not attempt to limit you or categorize you in anyway or predispose that you where a know nothing. I think it is great you feel the gate has been nailed shut... But I would disagree. Just as this post demonstrates I do not need yes men or women to have an opinion from out on the farm.
outonthefarm....Didn't really mean to turn your turnip truck over. Lighten up a little JT.
no problems turnips are just one of the things from out on the farm...
Just be thankful they got the turnip truck off of you. :)))
I am i alway have good help and friends out on the farm
Kinda sounds like you are referring to the good ole boy system.
Well there are always some good ole boys that are friends but never relied on the good ole boy "system" out on the farm.
You should know John. You should know.
There are times when we hunt on the farm, there are times we cut hay, then there are times we plant crops but you are the first that would attempt to fist without a clue. There are no John's (except the crapper type) out on the farm.
outonthefarm, It was not my intention to raise your blood pressure. I was just aggravating you, but I did have a point to make.
It is much easier to attack with this forum than to defend. Particularly when facing a plethora of assaults simultaneously. I do realize that we all get frustrated at times, and Mr. McClanahan is no exception. He has scolded me on several occasions as well.
I have not been on much lately, and am not very familiar with your name, but I do enjoy reading your comments with your unique perspective from out on the farm. It is just that I imagine you have so much more to bring to the table from out on the farm than your juxtaposition to others, and that is what I would personally prefer to read.
Just for the record, I do not know Mr. McClanahan personally, nor do I ever use a different username. If however, you are classifying me in the same category as lazarus and the writer of this blog, I am humbled by the undeserving flattery you bestow upon me.
The reason I insert a Mr. when addressing Carl has less to do with my devout respect for his ideology, and more to do with his age and the wisdom he has acquired during those years. You see, here in the big city we have been taught to respect our elders, and to some degree our peers, even when we disagree with them. Perhaps that is a formality too often overlooked in lieu of all the hard work taking place out on the farm.
There are no John's (except the crapper type) out on the farm.
-- Posted by outonthefarm on Mon, Oct 26, 2009, at 7:46 PM
And now you know why I called you John. :)-
memyselfi...you wrote "outonthefarm, It was not my intention to raise your blood pressure. I was just aggravating you, but I did have a point to make...."
no blood pressure here and all is good.. I enjoy straight forward comments,reading the blogs and the various points of view. Thank you for acknowledging that different perspectives on any given subject are important. I will not hammer the Carl issue but to add this in reference to your comment ...
"You see, here in the big city we have been taught to respect our elders, and to some degree our peers, even when we disagree with them. Perhaps that is a formality too often overlooked in lieu of all the hard work taking place out on the farm."
It is much the same here out on the farm. I was raised to always be polite and respect my elders and those that posses wisdom earned by the sweat of the brow and the road of life. I do not however think that respect should simply be bestowed upon anyone simply because they are older than me. One of the cornerstones of earning respect is that we treat everyone the way we wish to be treated.
If I would apply that to Carls "know-nothing pundit" comment he washed away his "entitlement" to the respect of an elder. Because no one I know would have prejudged and condemned anyone person or groups of people that way to attempt to preempt a response or at least..... not from out on the farm ;)
There are no John's (except the crapper type) out on the farm.
-- Posted by outonthefarm on Mon, Oct 26, 2009, at 7:46 PM
And now you know why I called you John. :)-
-- Posted by somecommonsense on Tue, Oct 27, 2009, at 7:33 AM
Well I could think of several reasons but that would be ..... a task that would take me away from all the work and toiling I must do everyday but you could send me a clue....out on the farm...
Clue #1 :
There are no John's (except the crapper type) out on the farm.
Well I would guess the "some" in somecommonsense is equivalent to lack of so we know you would never be from or make it out on the far. ;p
Just glad to know that I do have at least enough sense to not ask for a clue. :-)
Just glad to know that I do have at least enough sense to not ask for a clue. :-)
-- Posted by somecommonsense on Thu, Oct 29, 2009, at 6:48 AM
It's not that i need a clue as much as I don't care. I would love to continue this impromto banter but I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person... you will just have to live with the fact life is good out on the farm... :0
I was armed with the clue that "you" ask for.
Must be struggling a little out there on the farm?
"lack of" some commonsence earlier you wrote..."Lighten up a little JT...." .You must not have followed the commentary it is not that I needed a clue its that I don't care. SO lets go over it first you think I am JT.. which doesn't hint or give a clue as a crapper. Next since you got that wrong you chose to attempt humor..not.. then you attempt to once again engage in a battle for which you have neither the wit, will or ability to maintain. So it look like you are full of the scat from out on the farm...
Doesn't take a lot of wit or common sense to make you "care" out on the farm.
If you don't care.... then simply.... don't care?
Doesn't take a lot of wit or common sense to make you "care" out on the farm.
If you don't care.... then simply.... don't care?
-- Posted by somecommonsense on Fri, Oct 30, 2009, at 6:38 AM
So you finally understand. I thought I would have to do a crayon map for you. And your lack of comment on JT says a lot. Now if you want to get on subject and "sense" (pun intended)you are a master of clues figure this one out and you can scoop the paper. can you unravel a riddle. WHat does a former city manager, a former codes enforcer, surfing the internet and the city counsel have in common? JUst a "clue" from out on the farm
A cause of actions and reactions.
In the following order:
surfing the internet
former codes enforcer
former city manager
city counsel
A cause of actions and reactions.
In the following order:
surfing the internet
former codes enforcer
former city manager
city counsel
-- Posted by somecommonsense on Fri, Oct 30, 2009, at 3:27 PM
Very good.... do you get the picture sent from out on the farm?
I saw that picture a little over two years ago.
Actually it was written on the wall (without crayons).
And the wall was the height of two men standing on the shoulder of one another and became as wide as two more of equal height joining hands.