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Defending the King-MLKPosted Wednesday, January 21, 2009, at 5:40 PM
Lately I've heard many people compare the inauguration of Barack Obama with the fulfillment of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I have a Dream" speech. Anyone who has a good understanding of the principles that King stood for would immediately recognize the error in this kind of thinking. Although it's an awesome milestone in the history of our country overcoming racism, its also a defining moment as to just how backslid America really is. Not backslid necessarily because of who you voted for, but because we see no distinction between King and Obama.
I am convinced that Dr. King most certainly would not have voted for Barack Obama and furthermore, if King were still alive, he would have been very vocal and adamantly opposed to Obamas candidacy for president of the United States. Of course he wouldn't have voted for John McCain either but that's another story. The point is that the key topics that helped Obama win the presidency stand in direct opposition to the Truth that forged the hero who we all love. Like any of us King was a work of God in progress but in his later years he would have never compromised at the expense of God and Truth. If you think that Barack Obama can somehow be put on equal footing with Dr. King you are very mistaken and actually corrupting the Truth that King lived and died for. Kings allegiance was not to African Americans, it was to God. He just happened to be an African American, and the God he served demanded justice and equality to all mankind without reserve. King had a sharp discernment of how that God viewed men and his every principle was anchored in the Word of God. I for one am not interested in seeing his character tarnished by allowing people to forge his endorsement onto their causes. He would not have cast his vote based "on the color of their skin but on the content of their character." Those are his words in his "I have a Dream" speech. Here is the speech : Comments Showing most recent comments first [Show in chronological order instead] |
Originally from Rutherford County, Fernandez moved to Shelbyville to pastor "The Crossing" church and has lived here for two years.
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so here we are,personally i did not learn from this discussion.
(we have a new president) who has made clear he is going to change the way business has been done in america for the better.i can go for that,u?
what say we leave the room and let him do the job the american majority elected him to do.only after he has put (his)policies in place can we judge them,not before.
it very well could be that: prejudment,rumors lying,deceit,crazy talks and sowrong scenarios,has hurt the presidental process,thus destroying the good works that could be.
ignorance is not bliss,and stupidity not blind.
MLK has gone on,and never forgotten.new music is being played,open our ears and let us hear.
THIS TIME LETS TRY TO WORK TOGETHER
"lazarus, I do agree that singling someone out with "you" makes comments appear to be more aggressive and personal then may be intended. I sometimes try to use "we" to soften it up, but that usually makes very little sense in cases there is clearly no "we" to speak of. Any suggestions?"
i try (and the key word is try) to address questions, rather than people. i try not to assume what others think or believe, but rather to present my viewpoint & let them express theirs.
i believe that an uncivil attitude reflects more poorly on the attacker than the target.
but, since we can never really see ourselves thru someone elses eyes, it would be up to others to tell me to what extent i succeed.
I believe that there must be some line drawn also. I generally will try to look for the fine line where the freedom of any given individual's actions/beliefs intrude into another's. To me, the larger issue appears to be, not in the distinction of responsibilities and freedoms, but the understanding of "moral authority". The way I see it, society should be very careful in deciding exactly whose moral authority is to be considered. I do believe there are universal precepts that can be loosely agreed upon for a solid starting point though. To me, that starting point is what I have described.
Morals are usually so bound up in larger world-views, that when you make exceptions (even based on morality) to the basic ideals of ensuring everyone's freedoms, we ultimately give license for misuse and eventually, the erosion of the original principals behind the ideals. For example, I guess we would agree that it was morally wrong for us to burn our neighbor. Would we still agree that is was wrong, if we both presumed it saved their eternal soul? Would it make a difference if our neighbor believed it? I would also assume that we would both cringe at the thought of someone killing half of the world's population, however if that were the only way to save any of it, we may not see exactly eye to eye about the morality of that action, or agree what we should do in that situation. We seem to create a slippery slope when we curb peoples freedoms that do not encroach upon others freedoms, in an effort to justify moral authority, or any other authority.
Very true in the abstract, but in reality aren't there some areas in which personal freedom is equivalent to anarchy, chaos, or worse. There are always areas where sociey decides to provide absolute restrictions. What is the moral authority for doing so?
I think the key word there is personal. I do believe that responsibility and freedom are undeniably linked and that, like you, I also personally think that responsibility should trump freedom, however it becomes very difficult to externally dictate to everyone else exactly which responsibilities should be considered important, without facing the inevitable consequence of assuming the position of dictator over their lives. At some point all issues, not just responsibility and freedom, must be weighed personally if we are to be a thinking self-determining people. We all have a different set of scales and units of measure though. It is one thing to have a stance, it is something different to impose that position on others. Freedom loses most of it's appeal if we are only given the freedom to live as others determine appropriate.
I do know that personal freedom appeared to take precedence to "mainstream Christian sentiment" during his live.
-- Posted by memyselfi on Fri, Jan 23, 2009, at 11:11 AM
Shouldn't personal responsibility trump personal freedom?
I cannot begin to speculate who King would have voted for. I cannot even try to predict how his political views may have changed if he had the ability to live through the last few decades. I do know that personal freedom appeared to take precedence to "mainstream Christian sentiment" during his live. I also believe that when looking at either party's candidates, King would likely have not seen too many striking differences regarding many "key issues".
lazarus, I do agree that singling someone out with "you" makes comments appear to be more aggressive and personal then may be intended. I sometimes try to use "we" to soften it up, but that usually makes very little sense in cases there is clearly no "we" to speak of. Any suggestions?
"you are the typical limited minded individual..."
"people like you like to confine people to a certain label ..."
"we have enough limited thinking in the world without you adding...."
i think these forums would be more civil if they allowed swearing, and instead blocked the use of the word "you".
Disturbia . . . why do you assume to know what I stand and don't stand for? Unfortunately you are the typical limited minded individual who likes to either classify someone as either liberal or conservative and Democrat or Republican which is why we have such a political divide in today's world. I consider myself a moderate and I did not vote for McCain or Obama but in the past have voted mostly Democratic. Unfortunately people like you like to confine people to a certain label for sake of proving some inane point or proving anyone that disagree with you must be evil or wrong.
I think we have enough limited thinking in the world without you adding to the discourse. To be honest though, I could find grammatical and spelling errors in every comment in this blog including yours so make sure and be careful where you point your finger.
MotherMayhem I agree with you.
I believe MLK would be proud of this day, and have tears over flowing as far as History being made. As to wether or not MLK would have voted on Obama, I trully could not say yes or no. The economy's state played a major role in the votes as well as the people that were left to choose from. I do not agree with all of Obamas' policies as well as all of McCains. There is no perfect person for President. But I believed Obama was for the best intrest of the majority of All americans needs than McCain was. And for the abortion issues, and same sex marriage issue Pro-choice is not for nor against, and as an American Leader of ALL PEOPLE, RELIGION, CULTURE, RACE, GENDER, and SEX the stand of not chosing one over the other was probably the best stand, regardless of HIS own religion.
Other religions, and sexes can not be discriminated against just because of a presidents religious beliefs. All though I am proud he was elected and won, he still has a great responsibility of a job to do, and I pray he does well. It is Ok to support him, and not agree with everything he saids and does. It is also Ok to hold him accountable, and demand he do the right things for our Great country he claims he will do. People are celebrating The History that was made and Thanking Obama for standing up to the challenge. This is a great event, but it does not out do All The Greatness of what Martin Luther King Jr. and others have done to make this a possible reality.
Martin Luther King Jr.s' children:
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=eQjAVx15y1...
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=nuNENEIDh7...
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=LnFQ9RIqb_...
Oh, Disturbia, to answer you after you said this to me:
"And thanks, but God won't be judging me no more than Zeus himself will be. So don't be trying to guilt me with you neo-christian chit chat. -- Posted by Disturbia on Wed, Jan 21, 2009, at 9:26 PM"
I wanted to let you know that I am NOT a neo-christian, and if that is what you think all Christians are, it would make sense why you don't believe in God. I am sorry if someone has given you wrong information on what being a Christian is and has somehow pushed you away. Please don't let some crazy religious person lead you away from a God who loves you more than anything. I know you know deep down inside that there is a God that is calling you and wants you to love Him. He gave you life and it would be nice if you give Him the credit for it. Again, my main concern was not to "guilt" you into my religion, but to let you know that you better be right about your decision regarding God (and Zeus). There is so much more to this life than beating each other up on a silly little blog . . .
Can someone tell me if Barack is an English word?
LOL at Disturbia. Couldnt find anything else to argue about so you got anal about spelling?
-- Posted by jaxspike on Thu, Jan 22, 2009, at 1:39 PM
The reason I want it spelled correctly is that we have had 8 years of numerous grammatical and political mistakes so it's time to change that too :) and you are probably a BIG proponent of the "english only" so why wouldn't you want ENGLISH words to be spelled correctly. Sort of defeats the purpose don't ya think?
He might have been elected without supporting abortion because he might have drawn in a lot more of the undecided who voted Republican. However, he would never have been nominated by the Democrats without supporting this issue and so he wouldn't have had the chance to be elected.
i see a lot of debate, but i guess i dont understand which key topics that "got him elected" you are referring to, since you didnt spell them out. i dont remember any religious issues among his main talking points.
LOL at Disturbia. Couldnt find anything else to argue about so you got anal about spelling?
-- Posted by jaxspike on Thu, Jan 22, 2009, at 1:39 PM
LOL speaking of anal....
There is actually a man in the Bible named Barak and that's the way I'm used to spelling it.
Thanks Disturbia-I corrected it.
Richard . . . Ron Paul ROCKS! I voted for him in the primaries because he actually understands the financial problems we are facing unlike the other candidates and president. :-)
LOL at Disturbia. Couldnt find anything else to argue about so you got anal about spelling?
I wonder what candidate Elvis would have voted for. LOL!
-- Posted by jaxspike on Thu, Jan 22, 2009, at 11:01 AM
I think he would have been a Ron Paulite, lol
"Lately I've heard many people compare the inauguration of Barak Obama"
Pardon me sir, but could you atleast spell our new president's name correctly? That would be BaraCk Obama. Thank you.
I love how people like Vindicated and jesuslovesevery1 resort to petty name calling and negative comments when anyone has a different viewpoint than them. It really gives no credence to whatever they say and just shows the kind of people they are.
If you want to discuss your opinion and how it differs, you can do so without being so hostile and hateful and rude. Also remember . . . just because you have an opinion doesn't mean it is always right.
Oh well, I shouldn't expect so much out of the some of the people who comment on here. Some people have this mentality that anyone that doesn't agree with them must be evil or stupid or etc. which only shows their limited thinking skills.
-- Posted by jaxspike on Thu, Jan 22, 2009, at 6:56 AM
YOU Jason, call out Jesus and Vindicated on the petty name calling and the negative comments yet you end your statement with a negative comment and basically calling them stupid with the whole "limited thinking skills" comment....pot calling the kettle black, I do think so!!!
That candidate probably has already left the room with Elvis.
I wonder what candidate Elvis would have voted for. LOL!
Your point is well taken and true. However, it is not necessarily germane to Kelly's point. Based on bellbuckletn's post is appears that Kelly was right on point regarding the erroneous inference that MLK would have supported all things Obama supports or that he would have voted for him just because of racial affilation. I hope that voters who compromised their moral beliefs just to vote for a black president now have the courage to oppose him on these same issues.
I think the point is getting missed. I don't think the question is whether or not MLK would have voted for Obama. The historic significance is that Obama would not have been elected without the groundwork laid by MLK. One is not necessarily better than the other, but one was not possible without the other. MLK had the dream and Obama lives it.
They interviewed MLK daughter during the elections and she said they all voted republican, because they were against abortion and other moral value issues. She said she felt her father would have voted the same way. She said that her father would not have voted against his moral values or religious believes just to vote for a man of color.
I guess the biggest difference in Obama and Dr King is ...Dr King was a Republican.
I love how people like Vindicated and jesuslovesevery1 resort to petty name calling and negative comments when anyone has a different viewpoint than them. It really gives no credence to whatever they say and just shows the kind of people they are.
If you want to discuss your opinion and how it differs, you can do so without being so hostile and hateful and rude. Also remember . . . just because you have an opinion doesn't mean it is always right.
Oh well, I shouldn't expect so much out of the some of the people who comment on here. Some people have this mentality that anyone that doesn't agree with them must be evil or stupid or etc. which only shows their limited thinking skills.
Wow this touched a tender spot in people. I love Martin Luther and i think he would be in prayer for whomever would be president.
I did not vote for Mr. Obama, however i am praying for him, Wisdom and safety.
He is our president and we are required to pray for him, by scriptures.
He has a real hard road ahead of him.
It is not my main topic, it just backed up this one of people trying to ride King's legacy.
I don't think that Obama's inauguration is a fulfillment of King's "I Have a Dream" speech at all. Too much attention has been given to his race, by those for and against him. When someone of a different race is elected president, and no one thinks twice about the person's race, then we can say MLK's dream has been fulfilled.
I don't believe MLK would be "very vocal and adamantly opposed to Obamas candidacy". He would probably disagree with Obama on some social issues. His theology would probably prevent him from endorsing gay marriage, but I don't think he would approve of discrimination against anyone based on sexual orientation. On abortion, I won't even speculate. Overall, I think he would be more concerned about things he fought against when he was alive: racism, poverty, and war.
With historical figures such as MLK, it seems that their image changes over the years as people remember only what they want to remember about them. People love to quote lines from "I Have A Dream", but I'm not sure he would be so well loved if he were alive today.
Listen to his speech about the Vietnam War. He would be considered "anti American" or "unpatriotic" if he made some those same statements today, even though it's nothing but the truth, the same way Obama was criticized for his opposition to the war in Iraq.
MLK also talked a lot about economic inequality in this country. He would probably be accused of being "socialist" today for wanting to spread the wealth around, just as some people have labeled Obama.
The point is that the key topics that helped Obama win the presidency stand in direct opposition to the Truth that forged the hero who we all love.
"What Key topics are you speaking of"? "Color"? Try the Economy Slump, and then you will have something right here.
If you think that Barak Obama can somehow be put on equal footing with Dr. King you are very mistaken and actually corrupting the Truth that King lived and died for.
"Barak Obama was about 6 years old when Dr. Kings life was taken from him. And no one said Obama was on equal footing with MLK. "IF IT HAD NOT BEEN FOR MLK AND OTHER CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS" Barak Obama would not even been a Senator, let alone running for President.
Barak Obama is only (A) (PRODUCT) that developed from the dreams and the works done by MLK. MLK's DREAM is to see ALL MEN TREATED EQUAL, and as you said as well, not judged "on the color of their skin but on the content of their character."
What content of Character has Obama displayed, that would cause you to believe Dr. Martin Luther King Jr would not vote for him?
Also let me say this, It takes alot of courage for an African - American to run for President in a country he knows will have "GREAT OPPOSITION" toward him, one for the "COLOR OF HIS SKIN" and also for his Name "HUSSEIN" a muslim name. I know none of you would go to Somolia and try to become ruler of their country, especially not a "white man". Obamas' "ACCOMPLISHMENT" is becoming the 44th President of the United States, the added Bonus is That he has made "HISTORY" for becoming the First African - American, or Minority president. That is something big in African Americans eyes, but it is not being Compared to what The Great MLK has done, it is the rewards from what MLK has set the seeds for.
I hope you can understand that. God Bless.
I thought MLK was about helping the downtrodden? I saw him helping everyone that needed help. Did anyone watch that documentary with all of the footage behind the scenes with him just relaxing and having a good time? That man had one great laugh, you can hear it in his heart. I will never forget that part of the footage. What was really spooky was that he knew he was going to die soon. His last speech was just sad yet hopeful.
For once I have to totally agree with Disturbia I have to deal with them daily also. I have yet to have any of them even have so much as a kind word and I am only trying to help them.
A person can only take so much rudeness before they start giving it back. When they walk in my office with an attitude then I refuse to try to be nice. I have been cussed at, spit on and yelled at by them. Not once have I done one thing to provoke this behavior. I have lived all over the US and never in my life have I come in contact with a culture like theirs.
I was basically commenting on their BEHAVIOR AND THEIR LACK OF GOOD HYGIENE. They do deserve equality, but atleast take a shower and learn some manners.
And thanks, but God won't be judging me no more than Zeus himself will be. So don't be trying to guilt me with you neo-christian chit chat.
I was simply making the same observations as many have about the somalians..they are nasty, they do smell and they are extremely rude!! You deal with them on a daily basis and see what I mean. I have never met a nice one, they hate women and don't want me to touch them, they seem repulsed by it so yeah, I don't like them and they don't like us. FACE IT, they act like I owe them something!! If you like them so much then by all means, take them all in to your house and live with them. I am all for EQUALITY but nastiness and rudeness to women does not deserve equality, especially when they make their wives and daughters stand behind them with their heads bowed down, not looking up and eating what they are told to eat, not getting a choice on what to order. I treat everyone with kindness but when you are rude to me, you get it right back in return. They judge all american women on the way we are "allowed to wear shorts and short sleeves and make-up" to them we are a bunch of hell bound harlots. And that is a direct quote from a somalian I had the displeasure of doing business with.
To Disturbia this is your quote from above "ALL MANKIND TO BE TREATED WITH EQUALITY WITHOUT RESERVE" Here is your response to a story about the Somalians - here is what you had to say about them : "I love my job but cringe everytime a somalian comes to my work, they stink, they are nasty and there teeth are black, they are rude and just plain hateful!!! There have been times that I have not been able to provide them service simply because some refuse to let a woman help them, we have to pull a man off his position to attend to them. And the smell....OH GOOD GOD the smell...makes me vomit a little in my mouth. I couldn't even begin to imagine having to live in the same complex with them, I feel Jaxspike's pain immensely!! I have NEVER had a judgemental bone in my body until I ran across these people. I see many many many of them in a week's time and I have never met a nice one, not one single decent one at all. This documentary is extremely one-sided and if I was a Mexican I would be truly offended to have it be said that I have a common ground with these people.
-- Posted by Disturbia on Tue, Jan 20, 2009, at 12:38 PM "
Sorry, I just found it interesting that you would comment on the equality of all mankind ......
I sure hope God doesn't judge you with the judgement that you have given them. They deserve mercy, grace, and longsuffering just as much as God has given you. Honestly, you are the same as those Somalians in God's eyes ... something to think about.
To "jesuslovesevery1" you said: "Obama is not for either of those either.. He is for choice though." In simple terms, that means that he is ok with those issues, where I know that MLK was NOT ok with those issues - which is why I said that there is a difference between the two men (in their standards and/or morals).
All I can ask any of you reading is to PLEASE do your research on MLK and see if you still think that he would give an endorsement or not.
There is nothing wrong, jesuslovesevery1, with the United States having a black president as long as he is the right president whether he be black white yellow or green. I sincerely hope Obama is the man he is portrayed to be, we need a miracle right now. I hope he does such an amazing job that we are ALL ready to re-elect him again in 4 years. But we need to wait and see and not jump into a fantasy about what he is able to do.
Those differences would be that MLK would not be for abortion nor would he be for same sex marriage. I believe that MLK would stay strong in his convictions and would not compromise on those issues (being that they are totally against God & the bible that MLK lived by).
-- Posted by becoming on Wed, Jan 21, 2009, at 7:22 PM
Obama is not for either of those either.. He is for choice though. When an entire race of people faced racism and prejudices almost unimaginable today, MLK had that battle to focus on, women focused on the abortion issue and many are working to undo hatred towards the gay community as well.
I know I just read a few minutes ago jesuslovesevery1 that you commented this was not about race and yet you think King would have voted for Obama because he is Black.
FYI: there are many black people who did not voted for Obama and do not support him. Personally I do not know what Dr King would have done but I do not think he would have been a Obama supporter. But that's JMO
-- Posted by Dianatn on Wed, Jan 21, 2009, at 7:25 PM
Didn't say that he would vote for him JUST BECAUSE he is black.. I said that he predicted it... Don't read into something because it isn't doing you any good. And with your last statement, that is true... Which is EXACTLY why I said it wasn't about race.
I know I just read a few minutes ago jesuslovesevery1 that you commented this was not about race and yet you think King would have voted for Obama because he is Black.
FYI: there are many black people who did not voted for Obama and do not support him. Personally I do not know what Dr King would have done but I do not think he would have been a Obama supporter. But that's JMO
STOLEN25 - You said "even MLK's own SON said that his father would have been praising yesterday and our new president and he would have been very proud to see it happen. Seems that his son would know his father A WHOLE lot better than you do."
MLK's oldest son Martin Luther King III was 10 1/2 years old when MLK jr. was killed and that was 41 years ago. Yes, MLK would be very proud to know that we have all gotten past our rotten history and that today we can have a black president. But MLK's son surely knows what his father stood for and surely has heard his father's preaching/teaching and would have to see the differences in him and our new president. Those differences would be that MLK would not be for abortion nor would he be for same sex marriage. I believe that MLK would stay strong in his convictions and would not compromise on those issues (being that they are totally against God & the bible that MLK lived by).
And how naive to believe that King wouldn't have voted for Obama, since it was King himself who said he believed in the next 40 years, the United States would see a black man in the White House... and no, not as an indentured servant either!
AMEN Disturbia.
"The subject that gets all the tempers up on here will not be my main topic anymore. My stance still stays the same and will not change, but discussing it brings out the bad in all of us."
POSTED BY YOU MR. BELL, just yesterday and WOW look what you brought up, your favorite topic, you literally turn EVERYTHING into a homosexual topic, obsess much????? You are PATHETIC to say the least and I quote the above blog...."the God he served demanded justice and equality to all mankind without reserve." just to make it clear to you that is ALL MANKIND TO BE TREATED WITH EQUALITY WITHOUT RESERVE!!
Good lord man, find a new group of people to obsess over, I often find if I am obsessed with something, I either want to be one, or am one and just won't admit it!
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Defaul...
Here are some more people invoking King's legacy trying to get their cause to the forefront.
supposed to be "has not done anything and to", I was trying to eat and type at the same time.
Well said Kelly, Obama has done anything close tp King , or anyone else for that matter.
-- Posted by michaelbell on Wed, Jan 21, 2009, at 6:23 PM
SERIOUSLY...can you ever write a sentence that makes any sense at all?
Well said Kelly, Obama has done anything close tp King , or anyone else for that matter.
Gee I love the fact that you KNOW that MLK wouldn't have voted for Obama, and you know this how??? Seems like you are making an assumption on this and we all know what ASSUME equals up to......even MLK's own SON said that his father would have been praising yesterday and our new president and he would have been very proud to see it happen. Seems that his son would know his father A WHOLE lot better than you do.
Have you personally sat down with President Obama, do you know where his heart lies? How do you know that his allegiance is not to the God you speak of?
You stated " The God he served demanded justice and equality to all mankind without reserve."
ALL being the keyword, do you demand equality to ALL mankind without reserve?
And what content of character does Obama not posses in your eyes, that makes him a lesser man?
Very well said, and I would have to agree wholeheartedly. If I had to guess though, it won't be well recieved.
I had never though of that in that way . . . definitely worth thinking about. MLK was definitely a step above Obama on so many levels.