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No Jacket or "Ty" RequiredPosted Monday, September 21, 2009, at 9:14 PM
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Originally from Rutherford County, Fernandez moved to Shelbyville to pastor "The Crossing" church and has lived here for two years.
Hot topics Blessing the Animals(21 ~ 3:51 PM, Oct 19)
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I think the forum went very well. Brown and Marsh showed up and people were able to ask about things that concerned them and the candidates did a good job at answering them. It wasn't some big political thing, anyone would have felt comfortable there. For all the people that showed up, I'm sure you got a little something out of it and for the ones that didn't, you missed your chance to ask them, in a comfortable setting, what you might want to know.
I think both candidates stated their positions well and it was a good opportunity for people to voice their concerns. Unless of course you were hoping to ask your democrat candidate something,I looked but couldn't spot Ty anywhere.
I thought it was a great night overall. I am thankful that we can "interview" the candidates. I appreciate both Pat and Chris taking time out of their busy schedules to meet & greet with us. Although Pat seemed to be a nice man, the people that came with him (wearing their Pat Marsh stickers) were not approachable and were very very snobbish. He would have been better off coming alone - only because of the saying "birds of a feather flock together" & "You can always tell a man by the friends he keeps". One thing I did notice tonight is that "we" have become a very leary group of voters. Hopefully we will not vote on reasons of "name recognition", "wealth", or for any other reason but that we have the same values in common. If you can get to the heart/core of the man, you will ultimately see what is important to him. I need to know that the person I vote for will "walk the walk" and not just "talk the talk". We are all tired of the lies and the hype just to get elected. Brown and Marsh - thanks for "hanging" out with us tonight.
Ty was not there because he was still working at the time this was going on.
I saw him myself in the package truck headed into Bell Buckle at about 6:15 this evening.
I'll take good honest work over grandstand politics any day.
I over heard MR.TRACY tell MR .BROWN he looked NICE, CHRIS AN PAT SHOWED UP but it seems that alot of the people that nag like (OH MY ,FISHINGSAINTSFAN,SUPERX1250, an others)were inept not tobe there Mr.Brown called ya out to the parking lot face to face you failed to show!
Mr. Brown must not be to inept ..
Well if he wants to deliver packages that's fine, but if he wants to represent this district he needs to show some kind of effort.I will also take honest work over grandstanding and that includes riding the political coatails of their family name.
Ty Cobb very well may have been working tonight and that is fine. But I have one question ... Can he not take a "little" time off to meet with us voters? Well I dont know about you, but I sure have gotten a LOT of campaign flyers in the mail - did he take time off work to do all those photo shoots??? Just wonderin'
Ty Cobb knew that there was going to be a meeting tonight. It wasn't even a debate. Ty Cobb is running off of his brother's name. Is UPS going to let you off work for the NINETY DAYS over the next two years to grace the House of Representatives with your presence, if elected?
Maybe Ty needs to keep working, cause I sure didn't like he was NOT at the debate. Are we always gonna be to small to be looked at on issue's at hand? Look who is endorsing TY. Do we really want him? Pat Marsh and I have nothing in common. I am a working person and need a vote that will count! To be the underdog.... Brown makes more sense to me. I am tired of competing with 3 world countries. I don't live in an adobe hut or 20 to a house. I am tired of the pay cuts, forced overtime, no insurance when you work a Temp job at half pay. We need someone to stand up for the working man!
I was thinking of voting for Ty Cobb but he has pretty much lost my vote because he doesn't seem to want to put forth the effort for debates and just run on the reputation of his brother who I had a lot of admiration for. I guess I am not Phil Bredesen with buckets of money.
I think I might sit this election out this time.
Also, this was stated in the article about Bredesen supporting Ty Cobb.
"The special election will be held Oct. 13, with Ty Cobb facing off against GOP candidate Pat Marsh."
Isn't Chris Brown running too? It seems the media on all levels are ignoring candidates who aren't from the big two parties. Sad really . . . that is what keeps us in this political funk we are in when the media only represents a limited choice of candidates. I don't call the fair and balanced!
Look I have a Ty Cobb sign in my yard. I asked for it, happy to display it, have offended my Republican neighbors with it. Am very saddend by it now. I believe in our party but am very upset at the constant ducking weaving and dodging that seems to be going on. I understand the man has a demanding job, I do too. But something this big and it is big, need more attention than the three phone calls and two fliers that I have received.
I feel let down and disappointed.
This is Bobby Scott, former candidate in this race during the primary.
I was not able to be there last night and I'm sorry I couldn't make it. My son and wife are getting over the flu and we were catching up on things that needed to be done. I am sad to see that Ty did not show up. I think the process works better when all who are involved participate, because signs, flyers, phone calls, etc. might be effective tools, but the best way to know who you are voting for is to meet each person face to face (if possible) and talk about the issues that matter to you. I hope everyone makes an effort to find out about each candidate.
Also, I want to thank Kelly for covering this. Those of us who could not be there will be able to get some information from the comments made. Wondering, will any of the forum be on YouTube?
Get out and vote! Participate in the process, and work hard for the one you think will best represent you. Thanks Chris & Pat for being there. Again, sorry I missed it! General Election is October 13th!
Bobby Scott
Ok lets set the record straight on a couple of things.
Ty wasn't able to make it tonight because he was working, as others have stated.
I've seen comments saying that he should be meeting with voters instead of sending fliers. Ty was unfortunately unable to make it tonight because he is not a rich corporate executive like Pat Marsh.
He has to work hard every day to provide for his family. He understands the struggles of the middle class because he is IN the middle class. As for not meeting with voters, he has spent countless hours knocking on doors meeting with the people of 62.
He is not running off of his brothers name--plain and simple. He is running off the fact that he understands the problems facing everyday Tennesseans because HE has faced them, he represents the values of the hard working men and women of this state (which shows why TN Right to Life endorsed him), and he will spend his time in the Assembly looking out for the interests of the people of House District 62.
On the other hand, Pat Marsh doesn't understand or represent the values of the people of this state and he would spend his time in the state legislature looking out for the SPECIAL interests, NOT the people's interests.
Yes, I know that Ty is a hard working middle class man with a big name. I also understand what it takes to run a company too and I respect both men for that, but you forget that Brown is a hard working middle class man too AND he has run a one man trucking company. He has done it both ways, but not with a big name or with big money and big company. Brown is just a normal everyday person just the same as Ty and he works hard to make a living for his family. Sometimes he has had to be away from his family for weeks or months at a time. There is one thing though, he took the time out to meet and greet the people and let them meet him in a comfortable atmosphere. If you want to represent the people, you have to be willing to take time for them. Also, he doesn't have a job to where he can knock on people's doors all the time. He wants the people to know that there is someone who is interested in what they have to say, but not use company time to let them know.
Kelly, love the catchy title of your blog. As for the debate, I couldn't make it (I am a mother to young children and would never bring my 3 year old to an event like this). I am sorry that I missed it, but I can assure you that if I were one of the candidates I would have found a way to get there...that's just rude and tacky to be a no-show this close to election. What kind of [would-be] Representative doesn't represent himself, and how can we trust him to represent us?
No, what is bad, is when Jim Tracy is sitting there nodding or shaking his head no, when Pat was trying to answer the people's questions. I know a few people noticed this. Why does he have to tell Pat yes or no on what road he was headed down answering the people's questions? Pat was sitting stiff most of the time, straight, with his back being straight and the microphone held a certain way instead of relaxing. This was not a big shin dig and I felt he was very uncomfortable and felt like he was being judges by the man from his party. We are just regular people who wanted answers, he didn't have to be a trained politician with us. Just be one of us for a short while, not one of them. I felt Mr. Brown felt very comfortable and didn't have strings hanging all around him. No one was there to judge him and tell him yes or no on what he was saying and I felt he was answering on our level, so that we could understand what he was saying. I understand they have to be "professionals" at Nashville, but not here with the people at their home area. Don't let them change everything about you. You have to be able to have a comfort zone and if that's not your home area, then where will it be????
A couple observations here...
AaronFagley mentions how hard Ty was working, and I'll commend Ty for that. I've known Ty since high school and he's always had a solid work ethic, and Im sure he's busy doing the job that UPS hired him to do. But in the same breath he bashes Pat Marsh for being a "rich corporate executive", which is a pretty solid misrepresentation of what he is. Pat is a guy that went to work as an employee of Goggin, worked hard, saved his money, and bought the company. Then he worked hard again to grow the company and make it profitable, and sell it for a profit. Mr.Fagley, explain to me what is wrong with that ? Should we not all as Americans aspire to taking what we have and improving it for the betterment of our families and the community ? Sure, Pat has done well in trucking, I'm sure he's made alot of money in his career. Do we want to elect someone who is flat broke and doesn't know how to set a goal and see it through ? I sure don't... but that's just me.
Sounds to me like you're one of the guys from the state Democratic party seeing how much hot air you can blow with your mailers. But then again, the Republican party is sending their mailers bashing Ty as "Big Labor", and that seems way off base to me also. Regardless of whom I vote for, yall keep that Nashville BS in Nashville. We voters in this district can make our decision without all your "big city politics".
OK... I'm done with my Aaron bashing... whew.
Sawyers69... You mention that Pat appeared "stiff". What I get is that it's a bit of nervous tension. In this race I'm sure that every move that Pat, Ty, and Chris are making is critiqued by everyone watching. Everyone is waiting for any of them to make a wrong move, so they can rip them wide open and prove "politcal superiority". If you had the opportunity to talk one on one with him, maybe he could appear less "on camera".. He's just a regular guy, just like Ty or Chris really.. he's just got a few years on them and reaped the rewards of his hard work, instead of still working towards the reward.
But again, I've had the opportunity to know both Pat and Ty personally, so I have some background with both. They're both fine men, and we'll do well to have either in my opinion. My only problem with Chris Brown is he seems to run for whatever office is available at the time (State Rep, Sheriff). I'd like to see someone in the office that will fulfill the term instead of jumping ship in the middle of the stream. I'm not entirely sold that Mr.Brown will be that man. Once again, just my opinion.
I've personally known Mr. Brown for many years, he was born and raised here, then went off to the military as soon as he graduated and served for many years for the Army. If he didn't jump ship on the Army and the people of this nation then, why would he jump ship on standing up for them now. He is a good man and he knows how to stand his ground no matter what or who he is up against. He would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it. The reason he has run for these two offices is because he wants to help people and wants to make a difference for his family and friends, the people and town that raised him. He has been all over this world and knows what is ahead of us if things don't change. Him and his wife love everyone, but he might not like a few. He was raised by a God fearing woman, Ruby Gannon Brown, who loved the Lord and raised him to love people and know that everyone is different, but they are still God's children. His father, Thomas A. Brown, whom he was not raised by, also was from this town. I'm figuring with this blood-line, he can put up with the little-alligator shirts in Nashville. I feel honored to know this man , that has served his country well and wants to still fight for the people of this state.
To superx1250: What would make you think that Chris Brown would "jump ship" in the middle of a term, just because he ran for another office in the past? Some people want to serve the public and will run for an office, such as City Council, before moving on to a larger constituency and higher office. I believe that is the way it is done in a democracy. I'm pleased to call Chris Brown and his family personal friends and think he has what it takes to protect our interests, and not become corrupted by any power associated with the position. As for his ideals and integrity, he has proven that numerous times. He had the tenacity of a bulldog in helping Katrina victims, even soliciting donations from other states, for relief efforts. He studies and keeps up with all the issues that effect the "blue collar" populace, instead of just the lobbyists or special interest groups. Chris Brown is a man of his word and what he promises to do will be done, and he's no man's puppet.
Becoming : thank you we also have noticed how snobby the Marsh staff acts.I have posted about the big shin dig that only certain folks were invited to. At first I thought we were overlooked but the more people I talk to the more I find did NOT get invited to the party with Sen Corker and Mr Marsh. I admit that my husband and I were most likely going to vote for Mr Marsh early on but the more I think about the party and the people on the host list it puts more doubts in our minds.I saw a lady with a Marsh sticker on at the store tonight and ask her very nicely about the party and his association with some of the people on the host list and let me tell you if looks could kill I would be dead,and I did not appreciate her comment to my husband or me.I plan to tell Mr Marsh if I ever see him what I think of his people.I do not know her name but my husband said she was at the Marsh office when he got our yard sign(the sign is now in the garage and not in the yard) I haveagood mind to call his Office at his company and tell them to pick it up! I have not decided who I will vote for but I know who I am NOT voting for.
Tinytoes . . . you remind of the old church ladies who spend more time gossiping about what the neighbors and other church folk are doing instead of worrying about your own affairs. So you didn't get a special gold invite to a political fundraiser and party for Marsh . . . BIG FREAKING DEAL! I didn't get an invite from Ty Cobb for his little meet and greet at the Fly building but I don't stand around and accuse him of ignoring me or purposely leaving me out . . . most of those things are word of mouth events and judging by your attitude I can probably guess why you might not have received the word. LOL! To be honest, if you really understood politics you will probably find that there are always a few less than favorable individuals behind every candidate, even Ty Cobb.
How special . . .
jaxpike: F Y I there were invitations to the party our point is it was not announced before or after it took place it has not and still is not on his web site.Mr Marsh says he is for the everyday man but if he is this way now how will he be if he gets elected? If gossip is questioning the character of someone who is to represent us then there are alot of folkes that are doing it, we have a right to know! I dont know if Mr Cobb will be any better or Mr Brown but there seems to be more and more questions coming up everyday. If elected we will see if he is for everyone or the select few that are backing him.Why did the Teamsters union back Cobb when Mr Marsh owns a trucking co also 3 of the select few on his host list also own trucking cos in Bedford co.bet they will have his ear! labor might not want the owners having that much power think about it folks...It is beginning to add up real fast!
Who is Ty Cobb's brother?
Fluff . . . Ty's brother is Curt Cobb who held the seat his brother is running for until he decided to resign the seat for another position.
Ty was driving the UPS truck that was going 20 MPH that day instead of the usual 70 MPH they always run. JK! It did cross my mind though...i bet it was the slowest day he's had in awhile.
http://www.examiner.com/x-20988-Tennesse...
MY MY "TY WAS LOST BUT NOW HE'S FOUND "
This is worth a lot of VOTES ,,are my eyes seeing this .No its a LOOK A LIKE ...LOOK LIKE YOU GOT BUSTED
http://www.examiner.com/x-20988-Tennesse...
MY MY "TY WAS LOST BUT NOW HE'S FOUND "
This is worth a lot of VOTES ,,are my eyes seeing this .No its a LOOK A LIKE ...LOOK LIKE YOU GOT BUSTED
LIELIE TY TY
How is he busted? I see no dates or times on the photos. They could have been taken at any time.
They say a pictures worth a thousand words!
backat ya
Seems that those pictures speak volumes about the kind of person you are as well as Mr. Brown.
Dirty campaign tactics sure wont get my vote!
I kind of agree with you Evil Monkey but then again, we all know the square is never that packed except during courthouse hours. LOL!
Disgusted,
This was not Mr. Brown's doings. It wasn't on any of his stuff. I found this on someone's website that isn't even from here, so why would you even try to put it off on him? Have you ever tried to put in names and republican or democrat or whatever party it is? You can find all kinds of stuff if you just play with it. Also, what's this about ACORN setting up shop in Murfreesboro? More people need to get on here and play and find out what's really going on around these parts.
jaxspike,
That picture could have been take last week, last month, 2 months ago?
backat ya,
So you state that those pictures are proof, how so? I can take a picture of anyone and say they are some place and a certain time and day, but it doesn't make that a fact when there is no way to prove the date of the photo.
Evil Monkey,
I'm not going to argue with you. Think about it, look at the back of his truck. When have you seen his truck with all those signs like that? I've seen him out with the signs on the side, yes, but not in the back like that. Why else would he be up there, during business hours, when they say he works till 8 at night? The court house isn't open on the weekend, at least not till tomorrow, that is. It has nothing to do with the fact he's there. It has to do with the fact that he CAN be off during the day, if he wants, but he couldn't be up there with the people to answer questions at 6pm on Monday night. It's about obligation to the people. He wants our votes, but doesn't want to take a little time out for us. Pat was good enough to show up and so was Mr. Brown. We, as the people, just asked for an hour to an hour and a half. That wasn't too much to ask for, was it?
Did you ever stop and think it could be his day off?
Oh, I am sure it's his day off. The one he took off so he could show up at the courthouse on the first day of early voting. I've talked to several people at the courthouse that actually saw him there, and I think usually Union companies are Monday thru Friday and you have the weekends off.
No not all union co are M-F. If you work a Sat or even a Sunday then your day off could fall M-F. and sometimes U P S does this,even drivers often do other jobs besides driving.Im not saying that this is the case but I do believe it is a last minute effort by another candidate to get votes.I am not decided who I am voting for yet I like to wait untill election day when ALL the facts are brought out about a candidate.We were pretty sure earler who we were going to vote for but alot of things have been brought to light both in the news and some of it kept out of the news that has put doubts in our minds and others about candidates in this election.
Well, I've heard people say all kinds of stuff about voting. I just know there has to be some changes made or we are just going to keep going downhill from here. I think about my grandbaby and wonder what he has in store for him in his future and I want to make sure he has one. The two major parties have got us into this and I don't see anything changing as long as we keep them in there. I've checked out Chris Brown's website and like what I see with the Constitution Party. They put God first in their party and that is very important to me. My grandson's future is in these people's hands and I want God in that future too.
backat ya,
The pictures could have been taken weeks ago.
I could have a picture of you 10 years ago kissing another woman and posting it today saying it happened today. Who would believe you?
Argue all you want, but the fact remains, it is purely hearsay and you look like an idiot spamming each blog and news story about it.
Actually, wouldn't that be "sightsee"?
Regardless, the fact remains that Ty Cobb is asking us, the voters, to hire him for a position representing us in Nashville. He is also refusing to make himself available for our questions regarding his qualifications (and being the sibling of a former Representative that quit his job isn't good enough, in my book).
People can say that he was at work until whenever, but the fact remains that he is going to be unable to fulfill his obligations to us, the taxpayers.
If he can't even get time off for an interview, how is he going to get NINETY days off over the next two years for the legislative sessions?
Good point Thom but Ill bet if Cobb is elected he will get the time off,I dont think U P S wants to offend a state law maker...I think they would be VERY HAPPY to have one so close to home...
I still find it disturbing that a preacher is talking politics all because the Independent candidate attends his church... there is a reason for separation of church and state, and certainly a reason preacher's should never be politicians.
"I still find it disturbing that a preacher is talking politics all because the Independent candidate attends his church... there is a reason for separation of church and state, and certainly a reason preacher's should never be politicians.
-- Posted by darrick_04 on Sun, Sep 27, 2009, at 8:58 AM"
AHA! So this is what it is all about ... So much for the Constitution eh?
Darrick - He has just as much right to talk about politics (or back a candidate) as the next guy. Simply the fact that he is a preacher doesn't preclude him from the political process.
I don't particularly care for ministers being politicians but Kelly isn't running for office, he's backing a candidate that attends his church. I would be a bit concerned if a candidate's preacher didn't think that he could be trusted to do the job.
Also, nobody complains about Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton sticking their noses into politics...why is that?
EM - Please explain what the Constitution has to do with this. There is no such thing as separation of church and state in the Constitution.
Hello darrick_04
Where do people get this notion that a preacher can't run for an office? It's not in the Bible.
I voted for a preacher named Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party in the 2008 Presidential Election because I felt he could make a difference and because I felt McCain would have just been more of the same Bush Republican mess. Of course my favorite candidate was Ron Paul but he didn't make it to the end. After the election on the advice of the Ron Paul campaign I decided to get more involved in the political process at the local level so I joined the Republican Party here in Bedford county. I didn't stay long -less than a year. I no longer feel the hope that I once had for the Republican Party to be brought back to it's conservative roots at the national level. After meeting with the Constitution Party, I left the Republican Party and am now involved in establishing the Constitution Party in Tennessee and here in Bedford County.
Chris Brown does attend my church. I met Chris through the Republican Party meetings. He left the Republican Party at the same time as me. Both of us leaving one month after the Chairman resigned because of problems within the local party.
Concerning Chris attending my church: Pat Marsh attends Shelbyville's First Baptist church (SFBC). As does the new Chairwoman of the Bedford county Republican party Gail Binion, as does her husband Travis who is a Bedford County election commissioner. Also former chairwoman Deb Bailey attends SFBC as does her husband Carl Bailey who was the moderator for the District 62 debate at Central High school. Also Barbara Blanton who is the State Executive Committee Member and exercises her power to sit in and vote on any business matters within the Bedford County Republican party's local executive committee,Yes, she also attends SFBC. And There may be more that I am unaware of. Just for the record, I don't have a problem with it. Thanks Kelly
Not that I really have a problem with it either, it's just that you never mentioned it once... So I figured I would let people know why you are such a hardcore Chris Brown fan. Good luck and kudos to him for running, but since you are all about telling us the inside scoop on others' affairs I wanted to create a level playing field.
I applaud his effort.
Oh, and forgive me for leaving this out in the previous post... but in the three most recent politically charged blogs authored by you, it is all in a negative connotation towards the two front-runners. Could I suggest you make the case as to why we SHOULD vote for Chris Brown rather than why we SHOULDN'T vote for the other two? Again, I applaud his efforts, but just wonder why the underlying message from you is why we shouldn't vote for Ty or Pat but not a clue as to why we should vote for Chris, other than the fact that he is an Independent Conservative.
Maybe you or Sawyer69 can enlighten us?
kfernandez FYI Marsh does not attend Shelbyville First Baptist Church.
Hey tinytoes that's what I was told by someone who does attend there. No reason they should lie but I can't say that I have actually seen him there, so maybe your right. ???
Why vote Chris Brown? I've know Chris about 17 yrs when my family and I met him and I will try and answer what you want to know. Chris is a man who stands up for what he believes in and he believes every baby should have the chance to live that is conceived without someone killing that baby and it's right to live. He believes that the people have a right to live in their country without the government being able to tell us how to live. He thinks the people should be able to have their say in their government. He has been a paralegal and knows the laws and where the world is going if we don't do something to take back our government. He believes that the Christians of this nation should be able to speak out without being criticized for doing so and that the preachers should be able to preach what the Lord has put on their hearts without having to worry about going to jail for saying what the Lord wants said, because some may consider it a hate crime and can have them arrested. Chris believes in the people of this nation and he wants everyone to have a chance to take back what is theirs. It's time to help others, but don't let them abuse the system, like what is being done. Others need help just the same, but can't get it because others have learned to work the system and others can't be helped. The children of this nation need a chance when they grow up and at this rate they won't have a chance. I don't even know if Social Security will be there when I am old enough to get it and that is 30 yrs. away. I truly believe Chris will be good for the people and know that he has the heart to do what is in his power, to help the people. This is his website, if you want to know more then go there and if there is still questions then ask him. www.votechrisbrown.info . If you want to vote for him then fine, if not that is okay too.
Thom,
There is a law states non-profits lose their non-exempt rights if they use the pulpit to promote a candidate.
Have you been to Kelly's church and witnessed him promoting a candidate "from the pulpit"?
Or are you saying that once a person enters the clergy, they give up all rights to free speech with respect to the political process?
I would like to know which law this is. Regardless, it has nothing to do with the Constitution, as you implied in your earlier post.
CORRECTION I was informed that when I posted that Pat attended the Baptist church that wasn't correct. I was informed he attends the Presbyterian Church. Thanks tinytoes and Mrs. B for the correction.
I would like for everyone to know that I do attend church where Kelly Fernandez is my pastor. I have never heard him promote Chris Brown or any other candidate from the pulpit. He is a man of God and preaches from the Bible. I challenge anyone who thinks that Pastor Kelly is promoting Chris from the pulpit, to attend church with us any time. We meet at 7pm on Tuesdays & Saturdays at 1813 N. Main Street. Right across from Wal-Mart. Our church is called "The Crossing Worship". So come on and we will love on you and share God's Word with you too!!!!
bugforever,
I guess you feel the pulpit needs to be in the physical sense then you are telling the truth, but being the church is not the building but the body of people, I believe the pulpit can be anywhere as he professes to be...
"Originally from Rutherford County, Fernandez moved to Shelbyville to pastor "The Crossing" church and has lived here for two years."
a Pastor.
Now when he was given this blog, what was the topic he chose to speak about? I thought it would be religion, but apparently it isn't. Again, I stand on my opinion as do others. As the Constitution states, separation of Church and State. And if the Church does use it's influence to promote a candidate and it's agenda then it shouldn't be a non-profit.
EM - There is nothing in the Constitution that declares a separation of church and state. It simply states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
That doesn't mean that the church can't be involved in the affairs of the government. It seems to be more like the government can't be involved in the affairs of the church. My personal interpretation of this is that Congress can't establish a religion. By this they mean the Federal Congress, not the individual states.
If I am wrong and there is something else in the Constitution regarding religion that is leading you to believe in this "separation of church and state" thing, please let me know.
The letter below is where this started here in the United States. Thomas Jefferson wrote this letter to "a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut". This is verbatim from The Library of Congress:
---------
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.
Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
Seems Jefferson said a lot.
kfernandez,
That's cool, but hardly different from either of the other two running... I also find it highly ironic that some call this "taking their country back", while failing to realize that it was taken back in 2008, it just so happens it was taken from your side :)
Actually, Darrick, it was taken back in 2006 when the Democrats won the majority in Congress. Odd how none of "your side" :) remember that the Democrats have been running this country since then. The President can't spend a dime of taxpayer money without the approval of Congress. But Bush was solely to blame for the current state of affairs, right?
Very well aware of who won and win... Yeah... that's right, the Democrats passed how many important bills during that 2 year period? I believe nearly everything they brought to the table was vetoed, with the exception of minimum wage... and obviously the people felt there weren't enough of them, because 2008 was a political landslide. It's also odd that Republicans agree health care needs to be reformed, wonder why they never proposed a single piece of legislation from 1996-2006 that attempted to reform a thing?
The President can't spend a dime of taxpayer money without the approval of Congress. But Bush was solely to blame for the current state of affairs, right?
-- Posted by Thom on Mon, Sep 28, 2009, at 8:36 PM
And actually, Congress can't spend a dime of taxpayer money without the approval of the President :) The president signs bills and budgets into law/enactment, not the legislative branch.
I went to a parts store in the boro .The man who was in charge was a nut .Told him I needed a carb for a ford 300 (holey).Told him the motor was from an other year than the tk.He said it did come on that year .HIS name matches with a blogers posted by name
Why did you shop in Mboro? Why can't you spend money in Rutherford County instead of Bedford County?
Why did you shop in Mboro? Why can't you spend money in Rutherford County instead of Bedford County?
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Tue, Sep 29, 2009, at 8:32 AM
wake up get a cup of jo then rethink this ..you would make a great city manager to replace the one we have ..or was tyson to hard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB6p5QPVh...
this is so true
backatya,
When did they start making "Holey" carburetors?
backat ya,
ROFL Tyson? I take it you still work there? Still didn't answer the question, Why do you not shop in Bedford County?
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
I was just wondering what some of you who have been commenting about separation of church and state think about this short clip from John Piper. To me it's just straight up Bible preaching. But I wonder if you think Piper crosses the line and if so, what did he do wrong?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdnQAB3cJ...
I stand right there with him on it all. Abortion is MURDER!!! I can't believe how anyone can kill a baby, and it is still a baby, from the time God let the egg be fertilized. God put that baby there for a reason and if anyone has a part in the distruction of it, they will be punished for murder if they do not seek forgiveness. If you don't want that child, there are people who would love to have it. There are people who are fighting to keep their little ones alive. I think more preachers should be able to address all the government and the people of the government with this if they are behind it. NO, it is not cross the line. He walked straight down it and let them know what he thinks. AMEN to all of it!!!
That is strange because how many churches did we see promote Obama this past election and especially the debacle known as Jeremiah Wright.
I guess they should all lose their nonprofit status also . . . but hey, facts never really matter when it comes to something darrick_04 and others believe in. LOL!
So if what you are saying, it is ok to kill as long as everyone else is doing it?
Evil Monkey
I'm not sure who you were addressing. Also not sure what you are reference when you said:
"it is ok to kill as long as everyone else is doing it"
What really disgusts me lately is how Holllywood and certain media is defending movie director Polanski and the fact he raped a 13 year old girl. Whoopi Goldberg is even saying it wasn't "rape-rape".
Is this the society we are becoming when we glorify people like this?
Again, I stand on my opinion as do others. As the Constitution states, separation of Church and State. And if the Church does use it's influence to promote a candidate and it's agenda then it shouldn't be a non-profit.
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Mon, Sep 28, 2009, at 4:38 PM
Evil Monkey, show us exactly where in the constitution that you can find sentence that includes separation of church and state.
Thom has already posted the letter from Jefferson from which the thought originated, but that does not make it a part of the constitution-only Jefferson's thoughts. And, it really has been taken out of context by those who want to remove the vestige of God from every bit of public life.
The intent of the letter was to assure the Danbury Baptist Association that the government would not be meddling in the affairs of the church-the very reason so many came to this country-to get away from being told how to worship by the kings and others on the European Continent.
So, Evil Monkey, when you and others keep repeating this, you are just perpetuating a lie and a myth. I think you are above that. Am I wrong?
Midnight Rider,
To answer your question, I don't need to lie or create a myth regarding where I stand on why it was stated. The same can be said for the terms, "right to a fair trial" and "religious liberty". Let's think beyond the current state of affairs and look into past history of why there was a pursuit of religious freedom.
Courts have found that the principle of a "separation of church and state" exists behind in the First Amendment, even if those words are not actually there whereas Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...
The point of such an amendment is:
Ensures that religious beliefs, whether private or organized while being removed from attempted government control. This is the reason why the government cannot tell either you or your church what to believe or to teach.
It ensures that the government does not get involved with enforcing, mandating, or promoting particular religious doctrines. This is what happens when the government "establishes" a church - and because doing so created so many problems in Europe, the authors of the Constitution wanted to try and prevent the same from happening here.
I don't think anyone wants to be forced to adhere to Islamic traditions in the workplace, school or otherwise. It is already happening now, the more it is fought against it, the more your rights are taken away. I am NOT against it morally, I am against it because of what would happen DOWN the road. Please start to think past the current moment and know EVERY single decision, EVERY "right", EVERY religious agenda affects the opposite way you believe in a positive manner as well.
Thanks for asking the question, I would have answered it sooner but I like to get people stirred up and frenzied.
but hey, facts never really matter when it comes to something darrick_04 and others believe in. LOL!
-- Posted by jaxspike on Wed, Sep 30, 2009, at 7:49 AM
Hmm, oddly enough this statement is based on an opinion, where no fact is presented... typical.
"I don't think anyone wants to be forced to adhere to Islamic traditions in the workplace, school or otherwise. It is already happening now..."
can you provide one example of this that will withstand scrutiny?
"I don't think anyone wants to be forced to adhere to Islamic traditions in the workplace, school or otherwise. It is already happening now..."
can you provide one example of this that will withstand scrutiny?
http://www.t-g.com/story/1449487.html
well, i missed the part where non mulsim employees were "forced to adhere to Islamic traditions ". everyone gets the breaks. no one has to pray with the moslems. nothing stops the christians from holding prayer sessions of their own during the breaks. now, the holiday change crawled all over me, taking away labor day and all. (although it did provide mild amusement, listening to talk radio become apopleptic over workers losing the ultimate democrat holiday.) as best i recall, didnt public outrage make tysons backtrack? and the government, as is perfectly appropriate, did not involve itself in a religious matter? so what is happening now that forces someone to practice islam at work?
darrick_04 . . . there is plenty of proof that churches were supporting Obama and using church services to do so during the election. Nothing really new though . . . some churches supported McCain and other presidents over the years.
How is that my opinion? Oh that is right . . . in your own little world I guess. You really are as ignorant as they come. You disgrace MTSU with your lack of knowledge or intelligence . . . they should ask for their diploma back.
darrick_04 . . . there is plenty of proof that churches were supporting Obama and using church services to do so during the election. Nothing really new though . . . some churches supported McCain and other presidents over the years.
-- Posted by jaxspike on Thu, Oct 1, 2009, at 7:35 AM
Any church that stands behind a political candidate deserves to lose their tax exempt status, regardless of the candidate/party... care to show me where I have ever stated the contrary? We weren't even discussing which church has endorsed who. Any church that preaches on who to vote for, should be penalized, just as the government should be penalized if they were to impose one religion. It's quite simple.
Wow! Darrick, you and I totally agree on this one.
My question is, do you feel that the preachers of these churches still retain their personal right to back whichever candidate they choose (and campaign for them outside of the church)? Just because a man or woman is a minister, doesn't mean that they are stripped of their civil rights. I'm not saying that you have said anything like this, I am simply asking your opinion on this particular item since that's what some people have a problem with.
I personally have no problem with a church promoting whatever candidate they best feel represents their ideas and beliefs even if they support a candidate that I don't. I really dont see why it upsets certain people and especially if government can give funding to groups like Acorn.
Thom,
Beyond the pulpit the minister should be allowed to publicly support whomever, but the minute their sermons or official church gatherings become diluted with (one side or the other) political persuasion, it is crossing the line. So, in short, on their "personal" time far removed from the "church", support whomever you wish, but it's obvious this particular blogger seemed to have felt there was some separation necessary or he would have mentioned the relationship upfront.
Jax,
ACORN, and every group like it, should be supported by private dollars only.
I was unsure of whom to vote..., but I would like to thank the Democratics and the Republician party for helping me decide. On Oct 13 I will be voting for Mr. Brown ~ we the people are tired..wake up! We could care less about your junk mail~ we are not looking for perfect people, their is none! We need a regular Joe, not a bunch of polictal party junk mail....you can say this or that about your party..that I am not a part of Acorn or I did not have anything to do with that vote...but the fact is not many of you go against your party...and I think it is time to call the party over...null and void..Wake Up citizen this is our Ameriaca...lets start to take it back one vote, one election, one representive at a time!
Cast your vote on Oct 13th but think before you click that button.....