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Wednesday, July 23, 2014

Burn someones' Holy Book: yeah that'll teach them!?

Posted Friday, September 10, 2010, at 5:17 PM

(Photo)
God help this man..
Pastor Terry Jones of Gainesville Florida's Dove World Outreach Center want to hold a burning of the Qur'an on Sept. 11, 2010.

Now, "Pastor" Terry says this is in protest to the Sept. 11 tragedy of the World Trade Center. Hate only breeds hate. How does burning the Muslim Holy Book prove anything other than you are a colossal idiot of the first degree.

I am extremely ashamed this man calls himself a Christian. If that is what a Christian is no wonder the Muslim world hates them.

I know several Muslims and they are the most awesome, loving and honest people I know. They put me to shame on their prayer time and reverence for the Lord.

If I could talk to "Pastor" Terry I would be of him, don't do this hate filled act.

This is not something I can see God putting a stamp of approval on.

If this is what a Christian truly is, then I take Anne Rice's stance, I no longer wish to be associated with that.

"Pastor" Terry, please think of what your actions could fuel..it could trigger more hate filled acts against the USA and others in the world from like minded people like you.. do you want their blood on your hands?

I could not sleep at night with that burden on me, what about you Terry Jones?


Comments
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While I don't agree with his idea of doing this, or the guy in Springfield that plans on doing this, it is his right. Just because it is your right, doesn't make it right. I'm sure Pastor Jones wouldn't care for the KJV Bible to be burned by them (although they do this on a regular basis), it's still not right. But he does have the right to do this regardless of the threats or idiotic actions of a few extremists.

Just like the Muslims that are trying to build a mosque two blocks from the site of the World Trade Center, I don't think it's a good idea, but it is their right.

Mainly both of these, in my opinion are contradictory to the "golden rule". As we wouldn't care to have someone burning our Bible, we shouldn't burn the sacred text of another religion simply because we disagree with it.

Just as they wouldn't want someone building a church or synagogue near the site of an attack in one of their lands.

I always find it interesting when a woman starts defending a religion in which she would be seen as chattel. A woman merely posting a blog and voicing her opinion (in an Islamic theocracy) could be grounds for caning or being stoned to death, regardless of whether your opinion was in line with the Qur'an. Don't get me wrong, when I was in Dubai and Bahrain I met a number of Muslims that were very peaceful (and some that yelled at us as we walked through the mall), but I also know some of what their precious Qur'an says about dealing with "infidels".

-- Posted by Thom on Fri, Sep 10, 2010, at 10:53 PM

I agree with Thom on this one.

Lesa said,

"They put me to shame on their prayer time and reverence for the Lord."

This one line that Lesa posts really says what is wrong with our country. George Bush called it "the battle for hearts and minds". Who knew the battle was going to be in here in the U.S. but then,,, why not?

Followers copy their leaders. True Christians reflect the life of Christ. Muslims reflect the life of Mohamed. Christ killed no one, mohamed killed hundreds.

Christ is about Love, not acceptance of evil, but Love. Love your enemies,just as would a son on drugs or alcohol.

I don't think that ALL muslims are terrorist, or that they are ALL peace loving. They are merely lost sheep following the wrong shepherd.

I look at their leaders, doctrines, actions, feel sorry for them, and pray they could come to know Christ.

It seems that MOST terrorists are muslims, and they carry out their actions in the name of Islam out of hatred for the "infidels".

I agree that hate breeds hate. But, if burning a book made of paper by a man, would bring out those that would take a life made of flesh by God, then I believe their true desire was there all along.

Christ taught us to judge the tree by the fruit it bares. Some fruits look good from the outside, but are bitter on the inside.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Fri, Sep 10, 2010, at 11:38 PM

Instead of burning the Koran, he should put it in a jar of urine and get his grant from the National Endowment for the Arts. :-)

-- Posted by quietmike on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 5:42 AM

Their book says their way and God is the only way, ours say the same thing! That being said you will have extremist on both sides. People here in America think nothing when a bible is burned, a cross is desecrated Jesus is portrayed as a homosexual or any other Christian symbol or person is deemed unconstitutional that is fine. But let someone threaten to burn a Muslim book or boycott a holy site and their are branded the most hated person or persons in America, PLEASE!

Obama seems to have taken the Muslim side in this , BIG SURPRISE! Not!

A holy war is coming and sides will have to be taken choose wisely because only 1 side wins.

What happen to the Christians who would fight for the faith?

-- Posted by michaelbell on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 7:15 AM

I dont think this is something that a loving christian should do. Especially a pastor, someone who is supposed to be an example to his flock. I really think this will hurt his witness. If he were to get the opportunity to witness to a muslim he will not be able to simply because of this act and his disrespect. And honestly thats his number one job is to win souls for Christ, like every christian is supposed to do.

With that being said, it is his first amendment right to do this. So more power to him, if this is what he wants to do. I think its kind of funny that when people protest a mosque that they are bigots who wont allow people to practice their religion freely, but when this man wants to make a religious statement than its not ok for him. Also if people are scared to do anything for fear of what the muslims are going to do to us, than it sounds like the terrorists have won. If thats their job, to "terrorize", then some of the comments I have seen/heard/read, sure sounds like they are succeding. WHY are we living in fear of these people????

It is also a clear reflection of this peace loving religion. I know that not all muslims are radical fundimentalists, but i never hear the outcry from other muslims when a muslim does something crazy. Like kill/maim/torture someone for just threating to draw a picture of mohammed or burn a quran. Or drag christians down the street and light them on fire. Or kill a family member for converting to christianity, even there own children.

Like i said, i am not saying that what this pastor is doing is right or in good taste, but fear of another religous group should NOT be why we dont want him to do it. What about this mans liberties and freedom to exercise his religion or freedom of speech.

If these people are so dangerous that we have to cower in fear from them daily because we might offend them and in return they will try and kill us,than why are they here. And why do we keep saying how "peaceful" and "loving" they are.

-- Posted by greasemonkey on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 8:52 AM

this is one of those hard things.. i know that there are radicals that kill the "infidels" but i am also reminded our scriptures said Love your enemies as yourself" and do good to those who despitfully use you" where do I draw a line on hate and not hate.

How do I stand up in grace and love and say it is enough?? This is the thing I am wondering about. I don't wish to classify all muslims in a box.. "all are bad" just as all christians are not narrow-minded Idiots.

This is a perplexing issue that needs to be delt of in a each individual basis. I understand what each one is saying. There is such a fine balance that needs to be rode. ARGH... i wish i had all wisdom and knowledge to be able to love on a basis such as Christ.

-- Posted by 4fabfelines on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 9:00 AM

. i wish i had all wisdom and knowledge to be able to love on a basis such as Christ.

-- Posted by 4fabfelines on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 9:00 AM

AMEN!!!!!Me too, I pray for that very thing.

-- Posted by greasemonkey on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 9:08 AM

I have to say that these people are only doing it for attention, especially the Springfield copy cat. All they care about is their 15 min of fame. They don't care about all of the innocent people that could possibly get hurt by their actions. I am neither a Muslim or a Christian, so I can't take either side. But I have to say that all religions have extremist. And all religions believe that they are the perfect religion. Which causes fights, deaths, etc.

Why don't just care about the person and not worry about what religious beliefs that they may or may not have?

As I have taught my children, you do not base your liking of someone based on color, race, gender, or religious beliefs. You base it on how that person acts. Not how their culture or religion acts.

-- Posted by PrpleHze on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 9:58 AM

The problem with the Muslim religion is the fact it is much more than religion it is a part of their culture.

The problems I see with the freedom of religion is this freedom was fought and paid for in advance by our forefathers it was not a given freedom and it is for the people of America. We are giving away too much of our freedom to those who wanted to take it away in the first place.

As far as the Muslims wanting to build a Mosque at ground zero.. this should not be allowed, period!! I don't care if it makes them mad or what. If they truly had a desire to be a part of the American Public this would never be considered even by the Muslims. It is disrespectful to the thousands who died at the hands of Muslims. To me it makes it look like they want to erect a monument for their actions.

Just keep in mind: That America is the home of the Free but Freedom is not free. And remember the ones who have fought so hard to take this Freedom away.

Remember some spoken words by Osama Bin Laden:

In our religion, there is a special place in the hereafter for those who participate in jihad.

Osama bin Laden

In Time magazine May 6, 1996

It is far better for anyone to kill a single American soldier than to squander his efforts on other activities.

Osama bin Laden

Answering questions posed by followers at his mountaintop camp in Afghanistan, May 1998

To kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque [Jerusalem] and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim.

Osama bin Laden

In Fatwa entitled Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders World Islamic Front Statement, February 28, 1998

We believe that the biggest thieves in the world are Americans and the biggest terrorists on earth are the Americans.

Osama bin Laden

On ABC's Nightline, June 10, 1998

We, God willing, will continue to fight you and will continue martyrdom operations inside and outside the United States until you abandon your oppression and foolish acts.

Osama bin Laden

Demanding US withdraw from Iraq, in audiotape broadcast on Al Jazeera, October 18 2003

Your security is not in the hands of [Democratic presidential candidate John] Kerry or Bush or al Qaeda. Your security is in your own hands and each state which does not harm our security will remain safe.

Osama bin Laden

On videotape shown on Al Jazeera, October 29, 2004

-- Posted by Dianatn on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 1:24 PM

The burning of any book is bad, period. Regardless of what's in the book, religious or otherwise, I don't believe we should be burning them - it's not up to anyone to police what other people may or may not read.

-- Posted by cfrich on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 3:05 PM

"They put me to shame on their prayer time and reverence for the Lord." Which Lord??

Jesus killed 0.

Muhammad killed an estimated 3,000 people, including beheading 700 Jews of the Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina, A.D. 627:

The closer one follows the example of Jesus, the more peaceful is one's motivation.

The closer one follows example of Muhammad, the more militant is one's motivation

-- Posted by Junto on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 4:50 PM

Another thing that bothers me is the fact that the FBI showed up to talk to this man. I mean do I need to be worried that the FBI is gonna come see me if I say something that offends someone? Thats the scariest part of this whole situation.

-- Posted by greasemonkey on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 5:55 PM

Prplhaze: good thoughts to teach your kids. I lived overseas for quite some time and I was the odd one out" I know what predudice harassment feels like.

-- Posted by 4fabfelines on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 6:32 PM

First to say a mosque in the area of Ground Zero, is making a impetus political statement. Pastor Terry Jones of Gainesville Florida is doing likewise. A mosque at ground zero is feather in the hat of Osama Bin Laden. I feel a mosque there would detour homage to victims of 9/11, plus steer people away from New York. That would propel efficacy to the hands of Muslims that support Osama Bin Laden. Our forefathers fought and died for our freedom, now Osama Bin Laden is saying he will take it away. All Pastor Terry Jones is trying to say is he wants to keep his freedom his forefathers fought and died for. He doesn't want anyone or anymore to die.

-- Posted by thudsn on Sat, Sep 11, 2010, at 8:42 PM

Here's one of their peaceful Muslim protesters now.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/rids/20100910/i/r4...

I'm sure the knife is for cutting a peace cake or something.

-- Posted by Thom on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 12:38 AM

Why not to allow Pastor Terry Jones of Gainesville Florida to apply the "tip for tap" hypothesis? "I don't like the terrorist manner!" They are becoming stronger! When we 'fight fire with fire' we are likely to employ more extreme methods than we would normally do. That was what Shakespeare was referring to in King John, 1595: Putting religion aside; as an American in The Land of The Free am I not obligated to 'fight fire with fire' and stand up for Freedom.

-- Posted by thudsn on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 5:13 AM

Greasemonkey, I think (and hope) that the reason the FBI went and checked into this guys actions was they wanted to make sure he was not planning something more horrendous than just burning a book. He actions were possibly setting this country up for riots and at the least a lot of mayhem. Yes he has "rights", but it is important in instances like this to see just what the intent and consequences of someone's actions may lead to. His actions were more in line with those of a terrorist than those of a devout pastor. Christians as well others need to be held accountable when they act in such a manner. This man is an embarrassment, his behavior more in line with those he claims to be fighting against than the ones he claims to defend. There have always been religious wars in this world and always will be. This country was built on ones right to their own choice in religion, however at some point we must back the rights of the citizens here to live a safe life and if there are those that use their religion as an excuse to do evil, and excuse to start riots, an excuse to do harm, then at that point we need to question to what point we must extend their rights and at what point we hold them to account for any harm their choices cause. I am in no way saying I agree with taking away rights, but I do wonder at what point should we be expected to allow others to abuse the rights they have and cause harm to others. Along with rights comes responsibility, and the when rights that are there to protect us are used to harm and destroy us instead something needs to be done. We can never in truth honor EVERYONE'S rights since often they will butt heads with each other and it will be impossible to honor the opposing one, the old "you can't have it both ways" reality.So at some point somebody will have their rights infringed upon. Until we hold those who abuse their rights accountable for the abuses we will continue the downward spiral this country is in. I have no answers but do have many concerns about where this country is headed. Our rights are given with the expectation of being used responsibly. The accountability and consequences for ones actions have been so watered down they are very close to being nonexistent.

While out on a drive I saw a wonderful message on a church:

The best way to defend the Bible is to live by it.

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 9:40 AM

wonderwhy : Exactlly my thoughts.. Live by it.

-- Posted by 4fabfelines on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 10:14 AM

And yet there is no outcry when they Burn our American Flag, our Bibles or our churches.

You need to wake up people before waking up is no longer an option.

-- Posted by Dianatn on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 11:24 AM

Exactly Dianatn . . . you never hear any of these people express outrage or condemnation when someone burns a flag or a bible. I don't understand the mentality of some of these people that are commenting who condemn the actions of the burning of the Qur'an because they claim it could cause riots or death but think about that for a moment . . . you're willing to condemn some freak pastor for burning a book but not express outrage or condemn people who would harm or kill someone for burning a book. Yeah, I would be very upset if someone burned a bible but I am not going to go out and kill or injure someone for it. It easy to point a finger at one person and accuse them of something but it harder for people to show the intelligence to see the bigger issue or problem. Why is one religion shown such sensitivity but yet another is not and violence being tolerated?

-- Posted by jaxspike on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 12:02 PM

The Holy Bible and The Quran both instruct followers to kill in the name of their GOD.

The Bible tells us our unruly children should be stoned to death. Anyone that commits adultery, works on the day of the sabbath, or worships another GOD, should also be put to death.

Just as the majority of Christians don't follow The Bible's instructions word for word, the majority of Muslims don't believe in death to non-believers, or the extreme views of terrorists.

We have Muslims that fight and die for this country in our military, some are in the U.S. Congress, and some were were killed on 9/11 doing their jobs as fire-fighters and emergency workers.

We are not at war with a religion. We are at war with terrorists. Anyone that can't differentiate between the two are just plain ignorant.

If you believe that peaceful American Muslims should not be able to build their mosque near the site of the 9/11 attacks, or anywhere else, because of the extreme actions of a few, than you must also believe that there should be no Catholic churches allowed near any schools because some Catholic priests have been known to be paedophiles.

-- Posted by Rocket Valentine on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 12:27 PM

wonderwhy,

I know why the FBI went down there, and that was to ask this man not to do this, because we live in fear of muslim extremists. If a muslim, wiccan, athiest, etc etc group was going to have a burn the Bible day, would the FBI show up to talk them out of it? No, destruction of the Bible and other Christian symbols, have been shown as art and applauded.

I believe what this man had planned to do was stupid. The Christian is called to peace, and we are instructed to bless our enemy, and to pray for him. But, that does not give me the right as an American to deny someone the right to a religious/political demonstration. He made it perfectly clear that all they were going to do was light a fire and burn some qurans. They were not going to go out in the street and kill muslims. They were also not going to start a riot, or harm anybody. The ones that the FBI needed to go visit were the individuals (and there were several) that threatened to kill this man and the people of his church.

Like Jaxspike said, there is a double standard. Make fun of Christians or Christianity and its funny. Make fun of Mohammed, or Islam and someone dies. So make sure to live in fear and terror and not upset the muslims. We couldnt have that, and if we lose some civil liberties thats ok, we just want to make perfectly sure we dont upset the muslims. Havent we lost enough civil liberties because of islamic extremists, i.e. patriot act, homeland security, etc etc.

Rocket Valentine,

The Bible makes it clear that for our sin against God we deserve death as punishment. But, our sins were paid for through Jesus Christ, so....we dont have to kill people who break the law since we are under a new covenant. Also, how many extremist Christian groups are stoning their own children for being disobedient, or stoning people for commiting adultery. Also if someone did do that all other Christians would be jumping up and down saying that it wasnt right. On the other hand when islamic extremists commit some kind of atrocity, you do not have muslims speaking out. They either remain silent or throw a big ole party in celebration. Do you remember the videos of Muslims (thousands and thousands, not a small minority) right after 9/11 taking to the streets all over the world in celebration of us being attacked. Big Big difference in the two religions. Also if Catholic priests are going to continue to molest children and the Church continues to not take action, than yes by all means move them away from schools.

-- Posted by greasemonkey on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 1:08 PM

Rocket Valentines comments about killing are only in the old testament, before Christ, therefore before Christianity.

Christ did not instruct us to kill, but rather to be willing to suffer death (not suicide), in order to be obedient, just as he did.

I have seen several videos lately of muslims stoning people, cutting off their heads, and committing suicidal bombings, all in the name of Islam. Yet there is no public outcry from the Islamic communities or demand for justice for these actions. WHY? What little I have read of the Quran, supports these actions as justifiable teachings of muhammed.These things he also did.

If a thing is dangerous and evil it needs to be recognized as such.

I agree that people need to be held accountable for their actions, regardless of their reasons. Burning a quran does not justify killing a person or destroying someone elses property.

Hold the Pastor responsible for burning his copy of the Quran and hold any killers or rioters responsible for killing and destroying.

Recognize evil actions and have no fear of them.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 2:34 PM

greasemonkey,

I disagree with several points you made. First, The Bible and The Quran really make nothing perfectly "clear". That's why Theologists and Professers have been studying both books for years and also why so many people interpret the scriptures differently.

As for the majority of Muslims not speaking out against terrorist acts carried out in the name of their religion, you could not be more wrong.

The attacks on 9/11 were condemned by the majority of Muslims in the U.S. and worldwide. Leaders vehemently denouncing the attacks included the Presidents of Egypt, Jordan, the Palestinian Authority, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Pakistan.

Huge crowds attended candlelit vigils in Iran, and 60,000 spectators observed a minute's silence at a Tehran football stadium.

That's not to say that some Muslim extremists didn't celebrate. But, with an estimated 6 million Muslims in the U.S. and 1 billion wordwide, that video you saw doesn't even come close to representing the majority of Muslim reaction.

Just like in the case of Christian Pastor Terry Jones, the media tends to focus on the few misguided nut-cases on either side.

So, just like you saw the video of some people celebrating the 9/11 attacks, and attached that belief to the majority of Muslims. Is it not possible that Muslims in Afghanistan and around the world could see video of Christian churches burning the Quran and believe that most Christians in America feel the same way?

General Petraeus knows that our success in Afghanistan and in the Mus­lim world depends on our build­ing alliances with Mus­lim lead­ers and local pop­u­la­tions. Americans burning churches and Qurans just slows down our progress and could possibly put our troops at even more risk.

My guess is that's why the FBI tried to talk Pastor Jones out of having his book-burning party. But nobody denied him of that right. It was his decision to back out.

-- Posted by Rocket Valentine on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 3:39 PM

there is alot of hypocracy in this country and of course an american citizen is the bad guy again the best advice i have heard so far is to get right with god but prepare to defend youreself

-- Posted by lookin4it on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 4:18 PM

Rocket Valentine,

Actually for the most part the Bible is perfectly clear. When it says, "for the wages of sin is death, Rom 6:23" that sounds pretty clear to me. Also there are numerous verses dealing with forgiveness of sin through Jesus Christ, pretty much the whole new testament.....hence the new covenant spoke of in the old testament. Just because there are some professors and theologists confused about it and the fact that you disagree do not make it any less true.

As for your comments about the majority of muslims condemning the violence of the extremists....they sure got a funny way of showing it. Isnt that what this whole post is about....muslims everywhere rioting in the streets and folks getting killed, pandelerium, hysteria, oh no run hide, that sort of thing....all beccause some backwoods preacher wanted to burn some qurans in the churches backyard. I didnt hear any moderate muslims telling him to go ahead and burn them they will still love him.

It wasnt just one video of muslims celebrating 9/11....it was hundreds, and it wasnt just the day of or the day after. They are still celebrating today. Also if the majority of muslims are peace loving moderates, then why are people in muslim countrys being killed by the hundreds for converting to christianity. Or still being stoned for commiting adultery. What about the guys who write South Park, they were threatened with death and plans to their house were on muslim websites. They were going to be killed for showing a CARTOON!!!! Im sure there are muslims who do not share those beliefs, and there are those who where horrified at 9/11.

I watched several shows yesterday retelling the events on 9/11, I watched person after person jump out of the WTC, I watched firemen, emts, and policemen give there lives saving people. I listened to phone recordings of people leaving messages for their loved ones who they didnt know had died yet. Over and over I watched those planes fly into the WTC and pentagon. Heard the story of those poor people in PA who gave their life to stop a plane. And here I sit 9yrs later to find that we are all still just as scared of these people now as we where then, maybe more so. On Sep 12, 2001 what would we have said to Pastor Jones about burning a quran? Would it have been "no dont do that, you might offend someone" or would he have been just left alone not given a second notice. So if the muslims see videos of us talking about burning a quran, and not really going through with it, and are offended, today I dont care. Tomorrow I will pray for forgiveness for just not liking Islam, but today they can be offended. Its 9yrs and a day later, and you know what, IM STILL OFFENDED. I still hurt and I still cry for those poor people.

I know it was Pastor Jones decision to back out of the quran burning, which I dont think he should have even got started in the first place. I really dont think he intended it to blow up like it did, but it did. Also if the FBI came and seen me, I would be slightly intimidated by that. So I am so glad to know that our govt can now use intimidation tactics to suffocate our free speech. Did the FBI go see the people who are building the mosque near ground zero and tell them not to practice their religion because Americans may get offended and riot in the street. Nope, but the people who had anything to say against it sure were labeled bigots. So I kinda am glad the Pastor Jones started this whole controversy, because now I know where our govt and media stand.

-- Posted by greasemonkey on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 5:06 PM

How can Americans watch the tapes from 9-11 and defend these people? They were dancing in the streets world wide and celebrating that awful day. I will never condone this and will never forgive them. And their religion is as much political as spiritual. Read the history of their leader. It will deeply offend a lot of people.

And wait till they get Cordoba 2 mosque up and running and Obama's most beautiful sound in the world (call to muslim prayer) sounds out across ground zero, and we are told we will be sorry if we forbid this. Also, it is their desire to build mosques at the location of what they consider as their victories.

-- Posted by cherokee2 on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 5:39 PM

greasemonkey - Your post that was timestamped 5:06pm today has got to be the best post regarding this that I have seen in any forum or blog. Thank you so much for having the patience to put it together without getting caught up in the heat of the moment. Pastor Jones as certainly let us know where our government and media stand on our rights.

Our rights are fine as long as nobody else is offended by the exercising of them. And if anybody is offended, as long as it's only white Christians that are offended, that's ok too. You must not offend any Blacks, Indians, Hispanics, or other race for fear of being labeled a racist. You mustn't offend any Muslims, Jews, Hindus, or any other religion for fear of being labeled a bigot. But if you're going to offend someone in this country, just make sure it's white, Christian, men, and you're ok.

-- Posted by Thom on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 7:24 PM

Why do you continue to lump terrorists and every person of the Muslim faith together?

greasemonkey-You said, "Im sure there are muslims who do not share those beliefs, and there are those who where horrified at 9/11."

But then you go on to blame the Muslim religion itself for the attacks. Again, not only were Muslims horrified on 9/11, many Muslims died who worked in the WTC. There were also Muslim fire-fighters and EMT's that gave their lives trying to save people.

cherokee2- You said,"How can Americans watch the tapes from 9-11 and defend these people?"

I'm not defending "these people"! But what you can't seem to get thru your thick skulls is that the terrorists and the people "dancing in the streets", do not represent the normal person of Muslim faith.

The Muslims who also lost their lives on 9/11, or the Muslims in our military that fight and die for our country.

You still seem to have a problem discerning the extremist from the rational.

Do you think boxing greats Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson are terrorists?

How about NFL star Ahmad Rashad or NBA legend Shaquille O'Neal? Folk singer Cat Stevens? Do you really think that they believe in stoning people to death?

Do you agree with Christian extremists that bomb abortion clinics and federal buildings, killing innocent people and using Bible scriptures to justify it? Should we condemn the Christian faith altoghther because of the actions of a few?

-- Posted by Rocket Valentine on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 7:31 PM

Thom,

That's a good one. Please tell us more of the agonizing, dreadful plight of the conservative, christian, American white male. How we had to fight the savage red-skinned Indians from our land that they had occupied for years. Then there was all those pesky Mexicans out west. They had settlements in towns with funny names...San Diego, Los Angeles, Santa Fe, El Paso. Getting them to give up their towns and ranches that they had lived at for years was no easy chore.

How our civil rights were infringed upon when we were made to give up our black slaves that worked our fields for us. Ah...yes, it's been a long hard road.

What "rights" were taken away from the poor and humble Pastor Jones? Nobody stopped him from having his little bon-fire. And if he received any death threats, couldn't that be the reason for the FBI to question him? He made no claims of intimdation. The only person I've heard mention that is our local Theological Bible Scholar, greasemonkey.

-- Posted by Rocket Valentine on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 8:24 PM

OK here is your difference: You are speaking of Muslims who were born and raised inside the United States they were not exposed to the Muslim culture as a child, Ahmad Rashad converted to the Muslim Religion after he was a grown man.

Muhammad Ali born(Cassius Marcellus Clay)also converted to the Muslim religion as an adult many believe he did this to try to avoid the draft.

Shaquille O'Neal has never made it known to anyone whether he is Muslim or not. His mother is Christian and his step father was Muslim if this makes him Muslim then I guess it makes Obama Muslim also.

Cat Stevens: again he converted to the Muslim religion after he became an adult.

As far as what they believe or what they do not believe I have no idea and my guesses are neither do you.

Now try naming some Muslims who were actually raised in a Muslim Country than are not extremist because that is the ones you need to be concerned about and FYI we have thousands upon thousands living right here in the Good Ole USA as we speak.

So surely you should be able to name just a few.

Keep in mind where did the 9/11 hijackers live? But where were they actually from? Did anyone who knew them think they were extremist?

-- Posted by Dianatn on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 8:45 PM

I think that the point that is trying to be made is that you cannot simply blame everyone who is a Muslim for 9/11. I don't like what they did, and it is something that will never be forgiven. However, I don't blame all of the Muslims for it.

Also, the reason why you don't see Muslims going against the extremist of Muslim is because you only see what the media WANTS you to see. They are not going to show everything. They show you want earns ratings.

Thinking about it this way. If everyone in the world that is not Christian looked at the Christian religion and said that they are a bunch of murderers because of what they did to the Native American tribes, others in European countries. Giving these people a choice to either convert or die. Then it is considered just as "dangerous" as the Muslim religion. What if every time that people saw on the news such Christian extremist as: Jim Jones, David Koresh, KKK, Concerned Christians, Scott Roeder, that the Christian religion was dangerous and full of nut-cases that murder and kill in the name of religion.

We know that the majority of Christians do not believe the same as the extremist Christians do. Another example it's kind-of off subject but in the past people believed that Pagans sacrificed their children or danced with "the devil" or evil and wanted to murder and kill people who are not Pagans. This is simply not true. It is based on fears, not reality. In my 30+yrs of being a non-Christian, I have never committed a crime besides having 2 speeding tickets when I was younger.

But the point is that you cannot judge a religion and call it evil or "dangerous" because of a few extremist. There are nut-cases and extremist everywhere.

-- Posted by PrpleHze on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 9:44 PM

Dianatn,

I've read your post several times, but still can't really understand what point you are trying to make.

You are correct that I don't know what these converted American Muslims that I listed beleive and don't believe. But my guess is that they read The Quran and worship at a mosque just like any other Muslim. How is that different?

If you are saying that Americans that convert to the Muslim faith can't be extremists, there is always the case of John Lindh, "The American Taliban", the American who was captured in Afghanistan.

It sounds to me that you believe that all Muslims that are born and rasied on foreign soil are extremists. While I don't know any foreign Muslims personally as to give you some names, with all the candlelight vigils and memorial services held in Muslim nations around the world after 9/11, I don't find that to be accurate either.

-- Posted by Rocket Valentine on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 9:53 PM

I don't agree with the action of burning another religion's books, and this Jones guy is obviously somewhat unstable mentally. That being said, had the books been burned it would have been very easy to identify the radical Muslims in the group willing to protest a little more than the law allows. We missed a golden opportunity for a good old fashioned terrorist hunt.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 10:29 PM

Rocket Valentine,

Everyone understands that not every single muslim is an extremist. The problem I have (and apparently am not alone) is that the majority of muslim countries are not sitting around holding candle light vigils and feeling sorry that we were attacked. Whether you want to believe that or not is up to you, but the majority of muslims are not real big fans of the average American. Although whether or not they like us is not really the point. They are maiming, killing and persecuting non-muslims and those that wish to convert to a more peaceful religion, every single day. Again, whether or not you believe that does not make it less true.

I personally believe there are more effective ways to reach the muslim than burning the quran, and that is by following the example left by Jesus. Some of the main mans teaching did sink into my "thick skull", so apparently some things can get through. Although I have to say being called the "Theological Bible Scholar" did make my thick skull get a little bigger.

I dont think every muslim is a terrorist, but it is sure looking like the majority of terrorists are muslim. The reason that their religion gets blamed for it, is because the quran calls for these things they do. Now I understand that the moderate muslim can leave these things out and still feel like a muslim and thats fine, I can see that point of view. If I were a muslim and happened to be reading my holy script and seen parts where it calls to behead and boil and disembowel non-muslims, I would probably skip those chapters myself. Now the true follower he cant with good conscience skip these parts, and must adhere to his so called holy word. That is why we have muslim theocracies where people are being beheaded, boiled and disemboweled. Again your belief/disbelief has absolutely no bearing on the truth whatsoever.

This brings us to when someone commits an atrocity and says they are doing it in the name of Jesus. The big difference here is that no where in the New Testament (which is what Christianity is based on...I know this being the "Theological Bible Scholar and all) will you find where Jesus, the Disciples, or the Apostles calling on us to bomb abortion clinics or kill abortion doctors. Again, the Christian is commanded to love our enemy and pray for him. Unless love has a second meaning which means to bomb, I dont see how that line of thinking irons out.

Now, do you see why people might want to place a little bit of blame on the muslim religion?

-- Posted by greasemonkey on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 10:41 PM

I don't agree with the action of burning another religion's books, and this Jones guy is obviously somewhat unstable mentally. That being said, had the books been burned it would have been very easy to identify the radical Muslims in the group willing to protest a little more than the law allows. We missed a golden opportunity for a good old fashioned terrorist hunt.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 10:29 PM

Im going to bed, because me and Nathan Evans are in absolute agreement and thats kind of scaring me. LOL

-- Posted by greasemonkey on Sun, Sep 12, 2010, at 10:42 PM

I hear a lot of "they do it so why shouldn't we" as justification.

Um, yeah. That quit working for me sometime around kindergarten.

Mature adults should have a well-defined set of values, and they should live by those values. What others do or do not do should not affect one's own values or actions.

Are threats and intimidation part of your value set? If so, burning something that means a lot to someone else is right up your alley. Doesn't matter if it's a Bible, a flag, a cross, or a Koran, justification for terroristic acts is part of your value set.

-- Posted by tenn native on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 8:38 AM

greasemonkey,

Like I said in my first post - The Bible and The Quran, BOTH instruct it's followers to kill sinners and non-believers.

You are no different from the "moderate Muslims" that you claim must "skip thru the chapters" of the Quran that they find offensive.

You seem to have skipped thru the chapters of The Bible that instruct us to stone people to death, sell our daughters into slavery, or kill non-believers.

Does that make you a "moderate Christian"?

Since you also pick and choose which scriptures to follow.

And if yours and others(Liveforlight) excuse for omitting these scriptures from your beliefs is that they are part of The Old Testament, then why do you and other Christians still quote the 10 Commandments and fight to have it posted in public squares and billboards everywhere?

Do you also now omit the story of Adam & Eve and the whole first book of Genesis?

Get your story straight.

-- Posted by Rocket Valentine on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 10:31 AM

tenn native . . . I think what people are commenting on is the hypocrisy of those individuals who are upset about the burning of the Qur'an or who have criticized it but these same individuals turn around and say nothing when someone is killed or is tortured for being a Christian or does not believe in Islam or when someone of the Islamic faith burns a flag or a desecrates a bible.

It seems pretty easy to understand that concept. Sure, nobody should be burning a religious item to provoke the people of that faith but it is funny how there is so much "outrage" when it comes to something of the Islamic faith but never the other way around.

Rocket Valentine . . . does the bible also say we are allowed to kill truly ignorant people? You definitely would have something to worry about then. LOL! The reasoning skills of some these comments are just hilarious and some people actually need to read the whole bible before commenting on what it represents.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 11:04 AM

I thought we had thick skulls.......

Under the Old Covenant (i.e. the Old Testament)there were hundreds of different laws, some were for sacrificial purposes, some were for forgiveness of sins, some for cleanliness. Lots and lots of laws. Now with these laws came consequences, ie death. That is our deserved punishment for our sinful nature.

Now when Jesus came along he paid the debt for our sins, and with his blood there is a New Covenant. We are no longer under the laws that pertain to sacrifice or stoning adulterers and that sort of thing. Our sins are forgiven, praise God!!! We were also given some new guidelines for living, mainly that would be peace and love. No where in the New Testament does it say for us to kill sinners and non-believers. I was pretty sure we had already been over this, but.....maybe not. What it does say is to love and pray for our enemies. Over and over again its peace and love peace and love. Also you have to look at the behaviour of the Jesus, the Disciples and the Apostles during that time. Did they wage war or did they lay down their life for the cause of love. Hmmmm...food for thought.

As for your questions about the old testament and deciding what parts to keep, we keep everything that Jesus didnt take care of for us.

-- Posted by greasemonkey on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 11:08 AM

The reasoning skills of some these comments are just hilarious and some people actually need to read the whole bible before commenting on what it represents.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 11:04 AM

Couldn't the same be said about the Koran?

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 11:20 AM

O.K. So again, you pick and choose which parts of the old testament you agree with, and skip over the questionable parts.

Isn't that exactly the same thing that your "moderate muslims" do?

What about the part in the old testment where it sanctions slavery? It tells us it's O.K. to possess slaves and also sell our daughters into slavery. Oops, I guess we better skip over that chapter. Or did Jesus somehow take care of that part of it for you too.

I guess the point I'm trying to make to you is, that a Muslim can read The Bible and misinterpret it much the same way that a Christian can The Quran. There is enough crazy stuff in either book that it's impossible to argue which is worse.

It's pretty much a toss up.

-- Posted by Rocket Valentine on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 11:55 AM

Rocket,

GM is not picking and choosing which parts of the Bible to "skip over". Christianity should have one thing that sets it apart from any other religion and that it's not about religion it's about the relationship. It's about the relationship I have with my Father in heaven, who gave his only son to die for my sins and sent the Holy Spirit to guide me in my life. Jesus was the ultimate sacrife. Which is why the sacrificial system is no longer in place, Jesus took care of that for my. I had a friend of my who is Jewish by race, Christian by religion make this statement "Now that I am a Christian, it has completed my judism". The NT completes the OT, it does not make it obsolete.

-- Posted by Sharon22 on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 12:57 PM

From WSMV - "KNOXVILLE, Tenn. -- Knoxville police said local and federal authorities are investigating a burnt Quran found at the entrance of a Knoxville mosque over the weekend.

Darrell DeBusk, a police spokesman, said in an e-mail that officers responded to the Annoor Mosque on Sunday around 12:45 p.m. where a Quran that had been burned and shot was found on the sidewalk near the entrance.

DeBusk said officers collected the evidence and investigators do not believe the damage to the Muslim holy book took place at the mosque. Knoxville police are working with the FBI to investigate the incident.

A message left at the mosque was not immediately returned Monday morning."

So, the FBI is now investigating littering? As far as I can tell, given the report above, that is the only crime that was committed. Now the FBI is investigating the tossing out of this Qur'an in front of a mosque. This was someone (misguided as they might be) who chose to exercise their First Amendment Right to free speech to protest (again, in a misguided and distasteful fashion) against something of which they disapprove. Now they're collecting "evidence" of littering and the Knoxville Police Department is "working with the FBI to investigate the incident" (of littering).

-- Posted by Thom on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 1:20 PM

Rocket Valentine, I do not ignore the old testament or the scriptures.

Jesus came to fulfill the requirements of those laws. Since he fulfilled the requirements they no longer need to be applied. The commandments are different than the laws, those should not be broken but if they are, Christ will advocate for you.

Here are the scriptures and commentary to support this;

Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Christ's relation to the law of Moses may be thus summarized:

(1) He was made under the law Galatians 4:4.

(2) He lived in perfect obedience to the law John 8:46; Matthew 17:5; 1 Peter 2:21-23.

(3) he was a minister of the law to the Jews, clearing it from rabbinical sophistries, enforcing it in all its pitiless severity upon those who professed to obey it (e.g.) Luke 10:25-37 but confirming the promises made to the fathers under the Mosaic Covenant Romans 15:8.

(4) He fulfilled the types of the law by His holy life and sacrificial death Hebrews 9:11-26.

(5) He bore, vicariously, the curse of the law that the Abrahamic Covenant might avail all who believe Galatians 3:13,14.

(6) He brought out by His redemption all who believe from the place of servants under the law into the place of sons Galatians 4:1-7.

(7) He mediated by His blood the New Covenant of assurance and grace in which all believers stand Romans 5:2; Hebrews 8:6-13 so establishing the "law of Christ" Galatians 6:2 with its precepts of higher exaltation made possible by the indwelling Spirit.

Jesus was confronted by the Priest (Islamic counterpart is an imamm) about an adulteress.

Joh 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

Joh 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

Joh 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Jesus clearly valued the womans life more than a hypocritical adherence to the law he was there to fulfill.

Islam recently carried out a stoning of an adulteress.

Islam claims that Ishmael was the true heir of Abraham. Below is what the Bible says about Ishmael and you can certainly see this prophecy being fulfilled.

Ge 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

Ge 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Jesus tells us you can't have it both ways. You are either for him or against him.

Mt 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Mt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Mt 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Mt 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

In judging fruit it is easy to point fingers at those in the past who not here to defend themselves or their actions and pass judgment on them.

Presently, Islam is in control of several nations and is the dominate religion in many more. Look at those nations today. Do we want to be like them?

I can name Islamic extremist groups that carry out torture, terrorism, and murder in the name of Islam today. Taliban, Hamas, Al-queda, etc. they operate from those Islamic controlled nations. Can you name any similar groups that carry out similar activities in the name of Christianity? Do you think if Islam becomes the prevalent religion in the U.S. similar events will be conducted here?

As Jesus said, you are either for him or against him.

The fruit of Islam is spread around the world, no wonder they want to attack the last stronghold of Christianity. That is our real problem, we have become so weak as Christians and abondoned the teachings of Christ that we are now vulnerable to the attacks of an evil religious orginization that would decieve its followers into thinking it is ok to kill in the name of allah.

Choose this day whom you will serve and hold fast to your beliefs for they WILL BE tested in fire.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 1:34 PM

Maybe I will give them FBI a call, because just this morning I found a candy bar wrapper on my front lawn. Sounds like a job for the FBI to me!!!I wished I wouldnt have picked it up, because now I might have contaminated the DNA evidence.

-- Posted by greasemonkey on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 1:43 PM

Well said, well said.

-- Posted by Sharon22 on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 1:44 PM

You all are picking and choosing what to honor and what not to honor in the bible.

Also bibles change throughout the years, with the publishers adding and taking out various scriptures which make christianity look bad. If you don't believe me pickup a bible that was printed before 1980- compare it to one that was printed recently. They are totally different. Why?

If you do honor the entire bible and live it line by line, then why aren't there more murders? Why is it that most people who call theirselves Christian are only Christian on Sundays. Your religion tells you that you are not suppose to put anything bad or harmful into your body. That includes: alcohol, tobacco, along with prescription,illegal drugs, and overeating. But it still occurs. You are also not suppose to interact with non-believers unless you are trying to convert them.

And, unlike other religions, there are various different types of Christians. Muslims are just Muslim. There aren't different denominations. They normally don't fight with each other and say that other Muslims are not Muslim because they don't believe what they believe of the religion.

Catholics fights with Baptists. Southern Baptist fight with everyone. Others fight with the Amish, Jews,etc. Christians in general cannot get along when it comes to talking about the Christian religion because all of the different denominations have different bibles, different beliefs, and different ways of interpreting the Christian religion.

-- Posted by PrpleHze on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 1:50 PM

Muslims have different denominations also;

The majority of Muslims belong to one of two denominations, the Sunni (87--90%) and the Shi'a (10--13%).

The whole argument of peaceful muslims depends on there being division in the Muslim religion.

Divisions in churches certainly exist, but not in the teachings of Christ.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 2:04 PM

Bibles printed now are not TOTALLY different. They have been interprted into more easily read language than the Old English of the King James versions. This means slight difference but not total.

Ultimately it is up to God to reveal his word to you through the Holy Spirit which will guide you daily as to what is right and wrong.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 2:18 PM

"Catholics fights with Baptists. Southern Baptist fight with everyone. Others fight with the Amish, Jews,etc."

Hold up...WHO fights with the Amish? There are really people that fight with the Amish? Wow, they probably talk bad about 'em on the interwebs too.

-- Posted by Thom on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 2:48 PM

So Bibles are completely different now than they used to be??? How is that the dead sea scrolls support that the old testament is the same now as it was then???? I just happen to have a king james version that was printed in the 30s and it is exactly word for word like another one I have printed in the last ten years. Actually your whole post is chock full of misinformation....such as your ponderings on why there are not more murders??? Not quiet sure where your going with that one.

-- Posted by greasemonkey on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 2:55 PM

When I read Thom's story about the Quran being burned in Knoxville my first thoughts were "Uh Oh there is going to be trouble over this" Why would I think such a thing? Why is it when I read about Christian churches being burned and Bibles and flags being burned that I don't think "Uh Oh there's going to be trouble over this"

I guess it is the reactions from all those peace loving Muslims that make me feel this way.

-- Posted by Dianatn on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 3:00 PM

Hold up...WHO fights with the Amish? There are really people that fight with the Amish? Wow, they probably talk bad about 'em on the interwebs too.

-- Posted by Thom on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 2:48 PM

Thom, I thought you knew about the roving bands of angry southern baptists that were out looking for amish to fight with. Horses and buggies throw the southern baptists into bloodthirsty turmoil, true story...seen it on scyfy channel.

-- Posted by greasemonkey on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 3:02 PM

Islam has at least 4 widely recognized denominations; Shia, which constitutes the majority; Sunni, which is the most fundamentalist; Sufi, which is combprised of more mystical followers, and Amadiyya, which would be Islams near equivalent to Mormonism.

There is endless documentation of Shiite/Sunni violence and is one of the major problems contributing to the insurgency in Iraq.

-- Posted by gottago on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 3:07 PM

Actually anyone who gets offended by the mere burning of a book of stories needs an examination of his/her rationality.

-- Posted by gottago on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 3:09 PM

greasemonkey - Someone should warn those Amish about the Southern Baptists on the rampage. I'll e-mail 'em...oh right, never mind.

-- Posted by Thom on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 4:32 PM

It's pretty simple. Right Now! not 100 years ago not a 1000. Right now. All around the world. One "religious" group is persecuting people, not of its "faith". And by persecute I mean DEATH. Europe, Asia, Africa, India, Middle East, South America, North America, etc. It's not Buddhist, Hindu, Christian,...Can you guess? I'll give you a hint. "Honor Killing" is a current phrase they themselves use for certain actions.

-- Posted by Junto on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 5:01 PM

Thom,

Do you mean the Amish don't have email? I thought maybe they used horse power to operate those computers. :)

-- Posted by Sharon22 on Mon, Sep 13, 2010, at 6:33 PM

Hey, those Amish folks can be dangerous too. You know they are just lying in wait until one day all their terrorist cells are activated and they put poison in all those yummy baked goodies they sell. They are the masters of disguise and have fooled us all.

You heard it here first. LOL!

Seriously though . . . several of the Amish teenagers may have cell phones and probably text and have email because it is "allowed" during Rumspringa (rite of passage) and then after that they must give up such worldly possessions and devote their lives to the Amish faith.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 7:26 AM

Lesa,

In my very humble opinion, your a traitor to this country, to use the TG to spread your malicous attack against the USA. Yes, I think he has a right to burn there holy book. I wish I could meet him just to shake his hand. As for you, I hope I never meet you, as I do not like to barf. And that is surely what I would do if I met someone as evil and tratirous as YOU!

-- Posted by freakyfriday on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 4:02 PM

freakyfriday,

What an ignorant comment. Do you have a brain?

How are lesa's comments evil and traitorous( the correct spelling)?

-- Posted by gottago on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 4:54 PM

I wonder how many people that post have read the little line DIRECTLY above the "Your comments:" block that says "Please be respectful of others".

freakyfriday - While I do not necessarily agree with Lesa on some issues, she certainly has the same right to voice her opinion as you. Most of the people that I've read complaining about this were people that thought Pastor Terry Jones was evil for even thinking of doing this. Lesa seemed to be more concerned about what ramifications this act would bring from the Muslim extremists. While I don't agree that we should stem our actions based on what some idiotic Muslim extremist would do, hers wasn't nearly the hate-filled rants against this man as I've seen elsewhere. While Pastor Terry has every right to express his beliefs in any (legal) way he chooses, I think this one was misguided. I also think that he realized this and that's why he decided against this action. Again, he has a Constitutional Right to do this if he so chooses, just like Lesa has a Constitutional Right to express herself on the blogs if the Times-Gazette chooses to allow her the space on their servers to do so.

-- Posted by Thom on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 6:59 PM

I agree that no one has the right to burn or damage any religious item no matter if it may be a book, a symbol, picture, whatever. What he had planned was very wrong and I feel sorry for him thinking that he must fight fire with fire. There are other ways of handling the situation instead of wanting to become a terrorist himself. I don't like Muslims since 9/11 and don't trust any of them. This may sound bias but very truthful. I don't approve of the mosque being built in New York or in Murfreesboro. Why do they need all of these mega mosque. Are there that many Muslims in the United States or in this area. But the way they are building these various mosque seems like they are playing a game of chess. Seeing how many positions that they can hold and control. I remember recently in the news that they are wanting to also build one in Antioch near the old Hickory Hollow Mall. They (muslims) are incredibly dangerous because you never know when they will strike. Look at the World Trade Center bombings-it took them two times to bring them down. Then you have the fail Times Square Bombing, and many others like it. They act all nice as if they are on your side but they are just buying their time. Watching us and learning how we react to different situations. As for the strength of the American born vs. the Foreign born, I am more scared of the American-born because they are familiar with America and they can be of all races, so you don't know who may be a radical Muslim and who may not be. I believe this preacher changed his mind, later, because he came to his senses of what it could actually cause. The FBI was probably sent there because it was a threat to our national defense but more importantly for a scare tactic. What if he did burn it and televise it. It would have caused more damaged then just the burning of a book. I agree that he does have the legal right to do it just as anyone does. But most of the time common sense out weighs legal rights.

-- Posted by pandajourney on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 10:51 PM

What if he did burn it and televise it. It would have caused more damaged then just the burning of a book. I agree that he does have the legal right to do it just as anyone does. But most of the time common sense out weighs legal rights.

-- Posted by pandajourney on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 10:51 PM

This statement, I think, sums it pretty well. The problem is that burning the quran (a book) doesn't cause damage to anything but the book.

There seems to be the mentality that if one person burns their book it causes them to riot, damage, or kill. That just isn't true.

Each person is responsible for his own actions, not those of another, unless he is in a position of authority over the other.

To somehow blame a book burner with a riot, or murder, completely obsolves the rioter and murderer of any wrong doing.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Tue, Sep 14, 2010, at 11:11 PM

Alright

She said "I know lots of Muslims and they're nice and honest and trustworthy" what? Are you serious you crazy lady? TRUSTWORTHY! Muslims are not trustworthy. NONE of them. There all the same. They tore apart homes and familes. Not just the victims of the WTC the familes of the troops that went over there and got killed because of your trustworthy muslims. As a wife of a Service Member to the USA I am offened deeply that she would defend the muslims. They're all evil wicked twisted people who deserve everything that they get be it, a book burning, a mosque burning or whatever. They deserve it. But I must contradict myself in that, by doing so it may trigger more evil attacks on the US. They're wormey little people who are just trash scum of the earth! I think they're filthy. Pandajourney said the most intelligent thing on the whole board. There I was respectful of everyone. Just one last thing, Lesa if your so fond of the muslim religon why don't you pack up and move to Iraq?

-- Posted by freakyfriday on Wed, Sep 15, 2010, at 7:09 AM

Do you all realize that there was a Mosque INSIDE the World Trade Center? It was on the 17th. That Muslims also worked and died in the WTC? Does that put the "hallowed ground" arguement into a different perspective?

There is also a Mosque inside the Pentagon, which was also attacked on 9/11. Does that mean the Pentagon is "hallowed ground" too?

-- Posted by Rocket Valentine on Wed, Sep 15, 2010, at 7:38 AM

Thank you freakyfriday, for showing us all the ignorance and hate that you share with so many other misguided people. Every point that I've tried to make so far is demonstrated in your last post. Amazing.

-- Posted by Rocket Valentine on Wed, Sep 15, 2010, at 8:21 AM

As a wife of a service member, freaky friday, you should know better than to spew your filth. Freddom of Religion is one of those things our service members are called touphold.

I don't know if you ever venture outside of your own front yard but many of us happen to work actually know Muslims. They are our doctors, professors,and engineers thatwhom we work and share our community. Many have served in the armed services and have dies for our country.

There is always a disaffected number in every group - whether it be a religious are secular organization- that causes diruption or exhibits extreme opinions. No, it's not the functioning and assimilated members of Islam that cause the problems, it's those that have been sucked into a vortex of hate and dispair and feel their only recourse is violence.

There is a cure for the ignorance you seem to enjoy and it's called education. Read a book, take a class, or befriend a Muslim - move from beyond your own little world.

-- Posted by gottago on Wed, Sep 15, 2010, at 8:46 AM

I would like to take this opprtunity to apologize deeply for my last few posts who im actuallity did not belong to myself. You see my brother actually uses this site and comments to start controversey. I apologize to the many who were offended. I do not share the thoughts that Muslims are horrible awful people. There are bad people that make bad choices in all religions races and all walks of life. In my opinion the American man who wishes to burn the Muslim Holy Book is a prime example of "bad Christian" and for Heavens sake he's a preacher. I disagree with all the racist biggoted comments my brother posted. He is sometimes hot tempered and ignorant. I believe we all have a right to believe and worship what we chose. Is that not what this country is about? We're called the melting pot of the world because we are supposed to have the ability to accept all differences. Some like my brother do not possess that attribute. It is a deep character flaw that I believe he needs to work on. Again, Mrs. Cox and all the fellow commenters of this blog I apologize for this. I hope that I will not be held accountable for HIS words. From now on I will most certainly make my pages all of them much more private and controlled, as I should've done to begin with. I'll end by saying this, I do not agree with building a Mosque close to the WTC's. It should not be built in the same city if you ask me. God bless everyone and I pray for the "preacher" who is a horrible example of the Christian reeligion. Thank you!

-- Posted by freakyfriday on Thu, Sep 16, 2010, at 7:27 PM

The biggest irony of this entire thing is how the same people who claim to be defenders of the Constitution, while never flipping through a complete article and/or section, then proceed to be a hypocrite and let emotions and fear usurp basic inalienable rights. The reason there is a line about freedom of religion, is because so much dogma, misinformation and hate can not stand in the way of American ideas.

Also, the reason we don't burn religious book and other countries flags is because WE are not THEM... The United States doesn't need to stoop to the level of third world countries and justify our hate with the hate of others. If we do that, it makes us no better than the people we despise.

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Tue, Sep 21, 2010, at 7:24 PM

What is a Christian Pastor doing with a Quran in the first place? Doesn't that come under an idol of a false religion?

i wish i had all wisdom and knowledge to be able to love on a basis such as Christ. -- Posted by 4fabfelines

Colossians 2: 13-14

dead in your sins...nailing it to his cross;

2 Corinthians 5:17-18

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

According to my KJV Bible, Jesus Christ lives within you when you accept him. He sweeps out your temple and moves in to live until you evict him.

Matthew 12:43-45

43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth [it] empty, swept, and garnished.

45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last [state] of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Deuteronomy 6:5

5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:18

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Because Christ lives within you, you should not have to look for this wisdom and knowledge to be able to love on a basis such as Christ.

Why do the Muslums want to come here to live if they don't like our religion and think we are the antichrist?

Here is my thought on New York City!

The World Bank was created in 1944 in Bretton woods, New Hampshire.

and the IMF was created in 1944 in Bretton woods, New Hampshire.

The United Nations officially came into existence on 24 October 1945.

The United Nations Headquarters is a distinctive complex in New York City, United States, that has served as the official headquarters of the United Nations since its completion in 1952.

New York City is the CAPITOL of the World.

In my personal opinion, New York City, New York, will be the City of Babylon or Babylon the Great spoken of in the Book of Revelation. The IMF is composed of 7 Nations and the 8th Nation is not as yet but will be the 8th and this 8th Nation is Russia.

The World Bank is the One World Dictator. It owns the whole world, which is bankrupt, because of this same World Bank through the use of the IMF.

I would just as soon have all the false religions grouped in the same area as the False Prophet and antichrist and Babylon the great.

Sounds horrible, but until something changes, that is my opinion. It has nothing to do with who lives there or who doesn't. It is just my interpretation of Bible prophecy.

As for the FBI checking out this Pastor's actions, this is just a result of the color of law I spoke of earlier in another blog.

The first amendment guarantees the right of freedom of speech. The color of law states you have a freedom of speech as long as your speech doesn't stir up a riot or cause some person to commit a crime. (Inconsistent with the U.S. Constitution)

"Burning of our United States of America Flag"!

The law says if the US Flag touches the ground it must be burned. When the US Flag gets worn out or destroyed the only way to respectfully discard it... is to burn it!

Even some of our State Legislators and Representatives don't know this law. (Isn't everyone presumed to know the law?)

Title 4, United States Code, Chapter 1, § 8(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

If the Islamic people living in the United States stood up and partied, shouted out against the U.S., or waved guns and knives in victory, it would have been then that the people should oppose the Islamic people. Certainly none of that happened or it would have made world news and caused never ending riots.

Everyone should just calm down and wait and see what happens.

Remember, our Holy Bible tells us that there will rise up a false religion and that everyone would worship the beast and this false religion or ....

Just what religion this will be, no one knows just yet. It won't be long thou.

The Qur'an is Islam's holy book just as the Torah is Judaism's and the Bible is Christianity's.

The Christian Bible tells us all about God in the Old Testament. It reveals stories of a God who is very jealous and killed many non Jews as well as many Jews for crimes we commit daily and think nothing of. We think if we lust in our heart or mind, no big deal, but to God it is a sin he killed people for. God even used his chosen Israelites to slaughter men women and children because God didn't want any of these non believers living with his chosen people.

He hardened the heart of the Egyptian pharaoh and so God could set an example of his power, even killing the Egyptians who came after them after killing all the first born sons.

God set down laws and the punishment for crimes that we can not keep today.

God ordered the Jews to kill disobedient children, Prostitutes, and God even killed a man who refused to get his wife pregnant. God killed out whole civilizations not to mention the whole world population except for 8 people.

God created all things. He created good and God also created evil.

In the New Testament Christ changed all that and gave us a new way of life. He fulfilled the law and gave us political immunity for the law by giving us a freewill and sovereignty.

Our forefathers recognized this gift God endowed us with and wrote it in the declaration of Independence. They also made sure that we understood that We the People are the Sovereignty and not the governments.

Our government nor Congress nor the U.S. Constitution grants us any rights. Our rights came from our God and creator and our forefathers wrote up the U.S. Constitution to protect our rights from our governments. They even listed just some of the rights we have to please the people of all the states. God didn't limit our rights. We have inalienable rights that aren't written in the Constitution.

The freedom of religion right is blown out of proportion. We have a right to worship any way we believe is morally right. This right is part of our inalienable endowment from God and not from some politician or judge.

People who come to this country only have civil rights and not inalienable rights. God endowed us with them. The inalienable rights of foreigners are waived by the foreigners in order to become U.S. Citizens. Our Central Government then grants them Civil Rights because only God can endow us with Inalienable Rights.

So let's not get rights mixed up.

Islamic people, if U.S. Citizens, have Civil Rights, but not Inalienable Rights. They must pay to enjoy the rights that we are endowed with.

Am I a little prejudice? yes I am! I have Sovereignty over not just these people but all 14th Amendment Citizens as well as the government. Socialism! nonsense. Let the foreigners socialize. We the People have a country to run when everyone wakes up.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, Oct 1, 2010, at 10:17 PM


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Lesa Cox
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Lesa Cox has owned a cleaning service and a bookstore; now, she repairs and maintains computers for the elderly and others on a fixed income. She enjoys animals, gardening, books and fixing old cars. She and her husband have one son, who suffers from Asperger's syndrome.