The answer to your question and to why this country is in the shape it's in is GREED. Plain and simple. You made me take my shoe off and take a look. Yep. They're from China.

And the reason for the tax system is that more and more people are demanding something for nothing and GETTING IT! Even those who are not citizens.

Going 'cold turkey' would probably hurts us about as much as them, but you are on the right track. Bring our jobs home!

My company has been 'propositioned' numerous times to have our machinery made overseas. It would be about 30% of the cost, but we make it ourselves and if we jobbed it out what would we say to our employees? Our company president has made it very clear that there is no reason to bring any of these offers to him in the future.

We do business with overseas accounts, but we are American first. Our jobs will stay here.

Where have you been for the last ten years. Wal-Mart is the primary cause of this. See the film "Is Walmart Good for America". I am with you however in that the USA cannot be a country void of manufacturing. Wonder why the unions do not go to China and fight for the workers rights over there to make more than 50 cents an hour?

Unions would be smashed rather quickly and unceremoniously there I imagine. I think the problem is this: There are too many governments who choose to artificially depress their economy to keep the citizens destitute so they can gain more advantage from their labor, too many corporations who are willing to exploit that fact (and in some cases encourage it both implicitly and explicitly) and too many consumers here who would rather have saved a few cents back when we actually had a opportunity to buy American, then buried their head in the sand when this was all coming about, blindly accepted the rhetoric given and actually believed everyone who was against these proposed policies was one of those nuts who just liked to cause trouble. Many have been arrested in the last 2 decades and had their heads cracked open trying to point out these problems to an apparently oblivious population.

We are certainly not doing the Chinese (or any other trade partner) any favors. We are propping up a completely undemocratic society, encouraging the harsh and sometimes dangerous conditions these laborers work in every day and in a larger sense every time we purchase products made in China, we are not just supporting the country as you wrote, we ourselves are the oppressors of that nation.

Of course the US needs to produce exportable quality that can compete, but at what cost? If we are hungry enough, I guess we would all work for $0.50 an hour. That would help us compete. Or better yet, we could be bread slaves working all day for a dry place to sleep and some bread. If that is the only way to compete, I would rather not. I think the better way to compete is to eliminate the corporate exploitation of foreign nations and institute some common sense trade protections. Free trade is not free. It is not an accident that a global economic leveling would be the outcome of a global economy. It was well known all along. The only question is how much and how quickly.

The tax code is not the problem in my opinion. The published rate is rather high, but with deductions, most are shooting for the AMT. Actually the only corporations who "pay" any federal taxes are the large ones and when you figure the deductions and then start whittling away the subsidies they receive, many do not pay any Federal income tax at all. I imagine some of the sweethearts actually bloat their dividend payments to stockholders with the average US worker's income tax after they themselves paid none. Not to mention the subsidies given at the state and local level. I just do not have much sympathy for those who claim to be burdened with the daunting task of helping everyone else out by acting as benevolent stewards of this economy, when in fact their motivation is just the opposite.

I think the only answer is legislative, and that is not likely to happen unless a lot of people get mad, and then direct their anger at the guilty party, which is also unlikely. There are no longer enough American products available to vote with our purchases anymore. I don't even think there are more than a handful of politicians of either major party who do not support the global agenda at this time. It may even be too late to do anything except watch and see.

darrick_04, I have to admit that after reading the TG for a year, I do not think you have ever made a comment that I did not at least in some way fundamentally agree with. This one above made me cringe though. After I read it for the third time, I started wondered how some of what you wrote is so plainly obvious to you. Then I thought about your age and your educational/professional conditioning and it made a little more sense to me. I know it may be futile, but I am going to try and change your mind. If it seems as though I am being condescending, I am not. I realize you a well educated, articulate and intelligent. I just do not have the ability to put together a thought without a lot of extra stuff included.

I agree with you that "undoing business" with China would be astronomical, and that we do love cheap products. My biggest problem with your comment stems from the fact that you claim it does not matter where your goods are produced, so long as they are available. You see, it does matter. We have not always been what is today considered a global economy, and there are reasons for that. Some players in the global economy are best understood as warlords and tyrants with no rights, no freedoms and little quality of life for the people they govern. The American economy should be viewed as separate from the rest of the world, just like our government, laws and regulations. There is a distinct difference between international trade and what we have today, which ultimately amounts to a hostile corporate takeover of the entire world (our own little piece of it included).

In my opinion, what we have today is just a form of Corporatocracy that has extended itself out in classic empire building fashion to the four corners of the earth. This reality is not good for anyone but the speculators. It lowers prices in the short run here, but what good does that do when wages stagnate and drop due to unemployment, or inflation takes over. It provides jobs for some nations, but what good does that do when at the same time, the leaders of that nation are more and more under the direction of outside influence, are usually rife with blatant corruption and then sell the souls of the people and the always limited resources that belong to the people they are supposed to represent, in exchange for an extravagant lifestyle for themselves?

It really does matter. Our choices affect lives. Every choice we make influences the world around us to a small degree. What kind of influence do we want to create? Collectively, we have the economic power to reward countries who give a nod to democratic ideals and isolate those who do not, but it seems as though we do just the opposite. It would be easy to assume that we are just taking advantage of situations that we have no control of, but if you really look at it, we have not only contributed to these realities, in some cases, we created them.

I also think it is a mistake to associate economic nationalism with any particular kind of government. Our somewhat egalitarian economy was not given to us. It was fought for and hard won both by soldiers and by protestors engaged in militant struggle throughout the years. To give it up (what little we have left of it) in order to level the playing field for a rigged game and to further concentrate the wealth of the world is just wrong and cannot be easily undone or even justified.

I also agree that most things are made elsewhere right now and that even if we were to re-start American industry, it would take decades to rebuild it. It could all be done in a closed economy though for the most part, as it has in the past, but I have to wonder what the motive was for dismantling it was in the first place. Market forces maybe, but to what end and for whose benefit? To assume that cheaper imported labor benefits the consumers is somewhat like assuming that food stamps benefit the poor. Lower wages do not reduce cost at the end of the day, they reduce wages for everyone, and the cost to consumers is at best a wash and often it actually results in diminished buying power.

The very problem lies in the fact that we are not dealing with a single capitalistic economy with democratic leanings. We are dealing with many different economies and competing directly with nations who provide a quality of life that we overcame many years ago. While the stated objective may be a better quality of life for everyone, you had better believe that ours has to be reigned in first. And once it is, why would anyone believe it would ever be given back? That reality is just not evidenced by the current situations of the nations already living under the flag of corporate despotism, or the struggles we experienced achieving what we had.

I appreciate the "4 P's" but I believe they are all trumped by the "Big A" - availability. What is available and from whom is no accident. It is also not necessarily the free and open market in itself that determines what is available. There are issues with protectionism, subsidies, monopolies, barriers, and capital advantage, not just in our own economy, but in every interconnected economy and ultimately, even in the international economy, that help shape our store shelves (and our stores themselves).

In short, our economic realities are in large part created, as are the rest of the worlds. What we need to know is whose creation we are working in, and what is the expected outcome. The expected outcome is pretty clear to me. It will culminate with the economic global domination by the corporations, with the leaders tyrannically administering their will to everyone else through a system of governance so constrained by capital it will reflect only the will of the concentrated wealth with little regard for anything or anyone else. Let's just hope those are the days when the rulers of men become philosophers and the philosophers become rulers, but I doubt it. I just do not see it as a question of markets, but an assault of sovereignty and democracy. Sorry I wrote so much.

Memyselfi,

I think the biggest reason you had a problem with my commentary is because I intermingled first person and third person too frequently. My statement about it not mattering where the products come from is not exactly how I feel, but it is the attitude that 95% of consumers in this country have.

I'll be honest, I prefer most clothing and home accessories to be made in the U.S.A., but given the reality that I and most here can not afford the luxurious American price, suffice it say cheap really does sell. For instance, I can sit one product on the shelf and it will sit there for a year without ever being so much as glanced at, then suddenly change the sticker to "clearance" and barely if at all change the price, and it is sold. It is more perception than reality.

I appreciate your compliment in the first paragraph and I must say that I have never found myself really questioning the authenticity or validity of any argument you make. Even on this issue, I think we agree more than I eluded to in the previous comment.

Amalphia,

Love your thoughts. Again, I don't want to seem like I am all about buying Chinese products because that is far from the truth. However, when a "market" demands availability and economical pricing the end result is cheap labor.

I sort of see our issue with China as being merely identical to the puppy mills, most people in this country just want to buy a cute puppy, and they have know knowledge about the conditions the puppy was raised in, or how humanely they were treated. Most don't care if it lived in a box big enough to turn around in, alongside 4,000 other dogs, they simply care about the end result. Unfortunately, the average consumer simply doesn't care where things are produced, because availability or accessibility is their biggest priority!

Totally agree...The biggest task is to permenantly change the minds of consumers. But in difficult economic times the complexity of such an effort would require more capital than many are willing to expend.

darrick_04

Oh and puppy mills....nice one.

amalphia

Keep it up I learn something ever time

memyselfi

We aren't always in agreement but isn't that the point

darrick_04, After rereading your comment in that context, I can not only see it, I realize that I do the exact same thing at times. It was not the comment that bothered me so much as it was who made it anyway. I also realize that you have a personal stake in the topic and that your own experiences may shade your thoughts to a certain degree. That is not an insult. I know it is exceedingly hard to be an "A" student or a successful young employee while continually discounting or doubting all of what is presented.

That difficulty is some of the problem though. The socialization that shapes our perception is subtle, but dominate. The higher you go through the strata of society, the more dominate it is. What I would like to see change is the feeling of helplessness and futility that permeates our society and encourages complacency. People, for the most part, know exactly what is happening, they just do not believe that it can be changed. That is the sentiment your comment reflected as best as I can tell. It does not matter if you assign the blame to created markets, people's ignorance, or the police state of an oppressive nation, the end result is the same. It is a result that is cultivated and developed to counter what made this country great to begin with. The biggest fear of the powers that be, whoever they are, whether it is the local school board or the G7, is an emboldened and organized constituency. I think when people realize that we have been shackled by our own imaginations and are confident enough to assume an active part in the direction of their lives and develop their own sense of purpose, we will be much better off.

brown eyed girl, I do not recall ever disagreeing with you, so that must mean you have disagreed with me from time to time. That is not acceptable, but since you may not have had a chance to read the rules of blogging yet, I will let it slide this time. Disagreeing with me is never allowed (check the by-laws). Seriously, I am used to that. After some of my comments, I am relieved some of the local villagers have not tracked me down one night with pitchforks and torches in hand to run me out of town.

It seems to me that years ago Walmart was known as selling items "Made in America." Did I dream that, or was it a concept of Sam Walton?

bettyhbrown . . . you are correct. They did at one time have an ad campaign that focused on "Made in the USA" but soon the news sources were pointing out how untrue that was and they dropped the ads.