Illegal immigrants' kids can do what?

Posted Thursday, March 6, 2008, at 8:36 AM
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  • Because americans became complacent because we thought the government in the 80s was going to do the right thing after the first illegals were given free citizenship. The problem with this notion was the government wasn't even prepared to stop the illegal immigration in the first place so they just kept coming in droves.

    Now they expect it to happen again, (and it might very well happen). If they allow them, they must pay taxes, a fine, social security, and learn English and about American History. And that first generation is not allow to collect Social Security benefits, but can Medicare. That way it solves the problem with Social Security meltdown, call it a punishment. It's not like they would get it in Mexico anyways. In regards to college education for them? No, if they can't pay like the rest of us, then no. I don't qualify for grants or scholarships because I am a white male, why should someone get free money based on race or sex? It is wrong and unconstitutional.

    -- Posted by Evil Monkey on Thu, Mar 6, 2008, at 8:58 AM
  • the USA needs to take care of its own!! If "they" want to come over and make a better life for themselves and their family then they need to follow the rules and guidelines in order to do that.

    -- Posted by jssg1975 on Thu, Mar 6, 2008, at 9:14 AM
  • Check this out...

    PLYLER v. DOE, 457 U.S. 202 (1982)


    A Texas statute which withholds from local school districts any state funds for the education of children who were not "legally admitted" into the United States, and which authorizes local school districts to deny enrollment to such children, violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Pp. 210-230.

    -- Posted by Jacks4me on Thu, Mar 6, 2008, at 9:34 AM
  • What is even more disturbing that the article states that this student might like to become a doctor even though her HIGH SCHOOL Gpa is only 3.4. Even still, she is being recruited by none other than Princeton( which is not cheap) and who knows who else. That would never happen to the rest of us, a 3.4 gpa application would be trashed.

    -- Posted by gottago on Thu, Mar 6, 2008, at 9:43 AM
  • I absolutely agree with Evil Monkey . . . I was never given any special exemptions or treatment when I applied for college and when I paid for it. I worked hard and study and made the grades in high school so I could get a scholarship and what amount my scholarship didn't covered, I took care of myself. I also worked a job while I was in college and didn't receive any help from my family. It is almost a disadvantage to be a white American male in today's times.

    Why should people who come here illegally get better treatment and assistance than me since I am a natural born citizen plus ask me to pay for it through taxes? That picture doesn't seem right to me.

    -- Posted by jaxspike on Thu, Mar 6, 2008, at 9:47 AM
  • It is almost a disadvantage to be a white American male in today's times. Posted by jaxspike

    Not almost, it is! I'm a female and agree with you!

    -- Posted by Disgusted on Thu, Mar 6, 2008, at 9:58 AM
  • Oh to hear Glen Miller play

    Songs that made the hit parade

    Guys like us we had it made

    Those were the days

    -- Posted by andy33 on Thu, Mar 6, 2008, at 11:07 AM
  • Does anyone here know whether or not the "education" lottery money helps to send illegals to college?

    This is completely ridiculous. We need to take our country back from the idiots that are running it..running it into the ground, that is. They're flushing our currency down the toilet, allowing invaders to come in unobstructed, bending over backwards for the oil thieves (the domestic ones included), and screwing the American citizens at every opportunity. This has got to be stopped.

    -- Posted by Thom on Thu, Mar 6, 2008, at 11:48 AM
  • Isn't it interesting how those who come here illegally get all the benefits while the folks like the Somalis, who were allowed in by the State Department legally, are given the barest minimum of resources and told to fend for themselves.

    -- Posted by Brian Mosely on Thu, Mar 6, 2008, at 3:17 PM
  • I agree 100% with Brian.

    -- Posted by darrick_04 on Thu, Mar 6, 2008, at 6:57 PM
  • brace yourselves, i agree with evilmonkey. My wife and I are trying to send her through school, wonder if we can change her name and list her as an illegal, be a whole lot cheaper. I also agree that our government has gone to far and its our own fault, due to complacency. Its a giant spending machine, I dont know if it can be turned around without another revolution, because its sure not "for the people" or "by the people"

    -- Posted by greasemonkey on Thu, Mar 6, 2008, at 9:48 PM
  • I agree with Brian too, but because of the attitudes of the Somalis thinking we owe them something stands in the way sometimes. I used to work in a Dr's office and they would come in demanding to be seen and if you told them it may be a while they would get hateful. I was very nice to them even though I wanted to tell them to leave.I'll have to say the men were nicer than the women. The women would bang on the front window if they thought we were taking too long.

    Sorry that wasn't the point but I wanted to throw that in there.(had to vent). At least they are legal.

    -- Posted by christiangirl on Thu, Mar 6, 2008, at 9:52 PM
  • I've been lucky so far.

    I haven't had much exposure to the Somalis other than seeing them in stores but I've yet to witness any being ill-mannered.

    Mostly,they seemed very focused on the task at hand and a bit skittish.

    I assumed this was about what one would expect from people who had endured a great deal of hardship and then were thrust into an alien environment.

    Sometimes,they would relax and smile.

    It made such a difference!

    I haven't seen Somali children much.

    It'll be interesting to see the effects of their going to school here-and maybe going to our state colleges.

    BTW,does anyone recall the political promises made about 25 years ago that ALL children would be able to have higher education if they had the will and the grades?

    (Even then,I was wondering if all colleges were going to be borrowing ideas from tuition-free Berea.)

    More and more,we're enrolling in the school of hard knocks-and its costs are escalating higher than those of the Ivy League.

    -- Posted by quantumcat on Fri, Mar 7, 2008, at 8:58 AM
  • Two years ago at another school I worked at there was a little somali girl.She was cute but mean. The other children had to watch what they said to her. She knew a little english. Some of the girls helped her which was nice. With the way they are with their women I was suprised that they sent the girl. The little boy was in esl and made friends with the hispanics and started communicating with each other. That was good until they started getting him into trouble. Children copy what they see, and if others are doing something they think it's ok.

    -- Posted by christiangirl on Fri, Mar 7, 2008, at 1:43 PM
  • If I steal $100 from you and use it to buy food for my child (which my child eats), should my child go to jail? I can understand and appreciate those who say that illegals should be deported, but why punish innocent children? Those who were born here should be able to stay because they are citizens. (don't punish the son for the sins of the father). Those who were not born here are illegal but should still be treated with the respect that all children deserve (medical attention and education and food and love) until such time as they become legal or are deported. There are plenty of bad adults that we should focus our energies on. We should leave innocent children out of this.

    -- Posted by andy33 on Fri, Mar 7, 2008, at 1:51 PM
  • %$#%$% all these govt. reps, federal and local need to be put on monthly drug testing. Only users are so absurdly resistant to facts.

    -- Posted by big daddy rabbit on Fri, Mar 7, 2008, at 2:00 PM
  • If a child is BORN IN America, then they are entitled to all the rights as an American citizen. I wonder who is suppose to raise the "baby and children" that are born as citizen here? If mom and dad are illegal, and they have a child here, the child can stay, but the parents are suppose to be deported. Will the child need to be put up for adoption? Placed in the system of foster homes? That has to be "DEVASTATING" to both child and parents. Seems like to me back ground checks need to be (ENFORCED), and to be done more often. If they are ("ILLEGAL" pregnant women), Insurance and govt. assistance should be denied and they need to be deported before the child is even born.

    What if illegals are purposely having children in the USA to try and stay here illegally? What this is probably doing is overloading the health care and govt funding programs, and causing alot of financial hardship. Especially now that no one can hire illegals, so they will have to depend on Tenn-Care, Medicaid to cover all their medical expenses.

    I can not understand how they are even getting qualified for these benefits without being found to be illegal. Unless they are lying and saying they are American citizens; but wouldn't a Soc. Sec. Number tell different. If people that hire illegals for work are going to get in serious trouble (Breaking a Law), then something needs to be done about the doctors that see these pregnant "ILLEGAL" women "BEFORE BIRTH, or DHS that put them on the insurance and govt. programs. They should be made not to supply services to these Illegals and have them deported.

    -- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Fri, Mar 7, 2008, at 9:05 PM

    -- Posted by greasemonkey on Fri, Mar 7, 2008, at 9:39 PM
  • Many of us are decended from kids who were born in the states of an illegal immigrant. I understand the desire to deport illegals. Get it going if that's your thing. But there is no reason to pick on kids. Let's improve the world by keeping the children happy and healthy and teaching them something. The government can always have more of my check to help children of any nationality learn, eat and heal.

    -- Posted by andy33 on Fri, Mar 7, 2008, at 10:46 PM
  • I dont think we should deport illegals. We should imprison their employers to 5 years at Brushy Mountain State Prison if they are caught employing them. Therefore people would quit hiring them and the illegals would deport themselves. Americans spent ZERO dollars to get them here and Americans would spend Zero dollars to return them to their own country.

    -- Posted by seedsower on Fri, Mar 7, 2008, at 11:02 PM
  • loblert & Momof3&3step&1gran, If a child is born here of foreign parentage, they are NOT American citizens until they are 18 years old and APPLY for it. Therefore we should ship them back with the parents and then when they turn 18, they can go to the embassy and apply for their citizenship. Otherwise, they are here illegally just like their parents were.

    -- Posted by Thom on Sat, Mar 8, 2008, at 1:26 AM
  • Thom,I'm confused.

    I thought the concept of 'jus soli' made all children born here "birthright citizens".

    The Citizenship Clause of the 14th amendment says:

    "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

    As of 2006,federal law lists 10 categories of people that would apply to.

    These include:

    * "a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof"

    * "a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe" (see Indian Citizenship Act of 1924).

    * "a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States"

    In the case of United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), the Supreme Court ruled that a person born within the territorial boundaries of the United States is eligible for birthright citizenship regardless of the nationality of his or her parents.

    The only exceptions to this rule identified in Wong Kim Ark concern diplomats, enemy forces in hostile occupation of the United States, and members of Native American tribes.

    Plyler Vs. Doe stated that "no plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment "jurisdiction" can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful."

    This whole issue is being examined by our own legislators and other countries that have removed or modified their versions of jus soli (law of the soil) and jus sanguinis (law of blood).

    There is too much resentment against strangers who take local jobs or use local services.

    There is also confusion over people who are stateless or "cherry-pick" their citizenship status according to the benefits of a given categorization.

    One irony is that while the offspring of a birth tourist or an anchor baby has been able to assume American citizenship,people such as George Romney,Barry Goldwater,John McClain,adopted children from overseas and love children of American fathers (not mothers) overseas have had a much iffier situation.

    "There is an asymmetry in the way children born overseas to unmarried parents, only one of whom is a U.S. citizen, are treated.

    Children born to American mothers are automatically considered natural-born citizens.

    But children born to American fathers unmarried to the children's non-American mothers are not considered natural-born citizens (or citizens at all) unless the father takes several actions:

    * Provide financial support to the child until he reaches 18,

    * Establish paternity by clear and convincing blood evidence,

    * Acknowledge his paternity formally before the child has reached his 18th birthday

    o This last element can be shown by acknowledging paternity under oath and in writing; having the issue adjudicated by a court; or having the child otherwise "legitimated" by law. USC 1409(a).

    Because of this rule, unusual cases have arisen whereby children have been born overseas to American men (and non-American women), brought back to the United States as babies without the mother, raised by the American father in the United States, and later held to be deportable as non-citizens in their 20s.

    The final element has taken an especially significant importance in these cirumstances, as once the child has reached 18, the father is forever unable to establish his paternity to deem his child a natural-born citizen.

    This distinction between unwed fathers and mothers was constructed and reaffirmed by Congress in response to concerns that a flood of illegitimate Korean and Vietnamese children would later claim American citizenship as a result of their parentage by American servicemen overseas fighting wars in their countries.

    In many cases, American servicemen passing through in wartime may not have even realized they had fathered a child.

    The Supreme Court, by 5-4 majority in Nguyen, established the constitutionality of this gender distinction."

    Thom,can you post references to current law in these matters?

    Being a national or natural-born citizen is so convoluted and so much in flux that I find it easy to get behind on the details.

    -- Posted by quantumcat on Sat, Mar 8, 2008, at 5:38 AM
  • How can you possibly say that being a white male is a disadvantage??? Give me a break!!! Minorities and women have to be twice as smart and work twice as hard to achieve the same success as white men!! I see it every single day. You automatically get better jobs every time. A minority has to practically be perfect to be "seen" as equal to a lesser qualified white man because of prejudiced whites views of minorities. You see a black woman and she is automatically a single mother on welfare. You see a black man and he is automatically a thief or only got this far because of race quotas. You see a hispanic and they are automatically lazy illegal or also only got so far because of quotas. It is a lie!!! So who gets the job? The white guy of course. You are all a bunch of racist liars who refuse to see the truth because of your fear of losing all the power and wealth you think you deserve and have a right to because you were born white.

    -- Posted by Stop Lying White People! on Sat, Mar 8, 2008, at 8:10 AM
  • I'd like to add that it is also a lie that illegals don't pay taxes. That is the biggest load of BS and the government knows it. I have known hundreds of illegals in my life time and at least 80% of them actually pay MORE than their fair share of taxes!!! How do you ask? They use fake social secutity numbers to get jobs. Taxes are taken out of their checks. Social security and medicaid and income taxes are all taken out. But because they are illegal they do not claim their refunds at the end of the year. They never see that money again. There are also thousands that do file their taxes and use an Individual taxpayer number since they don't have socials. Just ask the tax preparers who work in Hispanic neighborhoods. They are flooded with self employed illegals who are waiting to pay their taxes. The government knows its the illegals paying into the Social Security system and never getting anything out of it that is helping to keep the SS system afloat. Illegals are so much less likely to seek medical care out of fear of being deported. They don't go to the doctor. They don't go to the emergency room unless they know they are actually dying. I live in Texas and every time I have ever gone to the Emergency room (that is publicly funded) I almost never see any Mexicans men there. It is only blacks whites and Hispanic women with their sick children. So I say Stop Lying!!!!

    -- Posted by Stop Lying White People! on Sat, Mar 8, 2008, at 8:27 AM
  • Dont break into our country under the cover of darkness, steal identities and then complain how our country treats you. They are criminals that should be dealt with. Like I said before , I didnt pay a dime for them to come here and I will not pay for a bus fare to take their criminal butt back.

    -- Posted by seedsower on Sat, Mar 8, 2008, at 11:12 AM
  • I agree with seedsower. There is no reason to debate illegal immigration. If you want to stop it, lock up the employers and it will end within six months. But you will see when you try to get that law passed that you won't be able to. Everyone hates illegals until they can't hire one. All big business wants them here.

    -- Posted by andy33 on Sat, Mar 8, 2008, at 1:33 PM
  • stop lying white people,

    EXCUSE ME!!!! There are black and hispanic people that are just as racist as you claim us "lying white people" to be. You complain that quotas must be met and that is the only way that minorites are hired and I agree that it shouldn't be that way. And only the illegals filing income taxes...HELLO if they were legal then they could get their beloved money back.And FYI my husband and I know of several illegals that did get a tax refund back by going through a shady white person that knew they were illegal! I'm so tired of hearing how racist white people are it just burns me up! Yes, at one time we did have slaves and that was wrong but their fellow people were the ones capturing them and selling them to the Americans.Yes, minorities have had a rough time trying to make their way up in society, but they have.And one more thing...I would like to see people's faces if somebody declared WHITE history month, or have a WET(white entertainment television.)

    -- Posted by shooter44 on Sun, Mar 9, 2008, at 11:35 PM
  • Here is an invaluable resource that I regularly use to help combat illegal immigration. Please forward this and tell as many people as possible to check it out. It basically prepares pre-filled out faxes that with just a few clicks, will reach the right representatives regarding whichever bills or Acts that they try to sneak by the AMERICAN citizen. It has been truly effective so far to shoot down any legislatures tried by the dirty sellouts in Washington. The address is I strongly urge you to check this out. REMEMBER THE ALAMO!!!

    -- Posted by jdl.7971 on Mon, Mar 10, 2008, at 1:24 PM
  • Hey Lying Black Lady,

    It is no one's fault but their own if someone (white or black)can't get ahead. They need to get of their @%# and get a job or two, just like everyone else. Just because there is discrimination against blacks (and there is)doesn't mean that no else (white)can be discriminated against.

    -- Posted by jdl.7971 on Mon, Mar 10, 2008, at 2:11 PM
  • FYI

    I worked as a temp for Pillsbury in Murfreesboro for nine months. I busted my butt everyday because I really needed the job. I was told by the shift leader (who was black)that they had a say in who would be hired to their shift and department. She pulled me to the side one night and said they had voted for me because they were really impressed with my determination to get whatever job I was given done. As I thanked some of the permanent workers, they told me not to get my hopes up because I:

    A) Was not Black

    B) Was not a Disabled Veteran

    C) Was not disabled

    D) I was a white male

    well, sure enough, guess who got the job. A black disabled girl with (1)leg shorter than the other, whom no one had ever seen her lift a finger. So get of your soapbox Black Liar Lady. I am a white male and was discriminated against. Lying White People. Nice generalization. Sounds like discrimination against whites to me. I guess we all look alike too.

    -- Posted by jdl.7971 on Mon, Mar 10, 2008, at 2:25 PM
  • "Why aren't those who are in our country illegally deported? They know where these people live because the school has the student's address.

    What is wrong with this picture?"

    More importantly, why aren't the companies who recruit such people deported out of the country? Until corporations, large and small stop hiring these people they will continue to seek employment in America.

    There are three major reasons American employers hire illegal aliens:

    1.) the employers can pay the illegals lower wages,

    2.) the employers can avoid including health insurance benefits instead referring their illegal employees to hospital emergency rooms for care for which the cost will be dumpted on the taxpayer, and

    3.) illegals are less likely to report violations of health and safety laws.

    The underlying factor, as always is $$$, unfortunately. I am no advocate for "illegal" immigration, but the problem will not be corrected until corporations stop sending jobs overseas, and hiring illegals at home.

    -- Posted by darrick_04 on Mon, Mar 10, 2008, at 3:26 PM
  • One problem that comes with the need for a "Black History Month" or "Miss Hispanic America",etc. is the idea that WASPs (especially if males in their thirties) are 'generic' human beings.

    I had a writing course that warned against making a screenplay's character too specific.

    (Producers would want as much freedom with their casting as possible.)

    Soooo,a heroine described as Creole,a follower of Voudon and over sixty would be "too detailed".

    A hero who was White,Anglo-Saxon,Protestant and aged 35 was acceptable as a lead character.

    Because he represented the dominant culture,his traits provided no sense of who he'd be as a person.

    If we get a WET,etc.,it'll be because white people will have become Other.

    Caucasians will have become the just-as-depersonalized token.

    So long as we look upon one another as some sort of packaged product that needs to be labeled,we'll have tension from the divisions.

    When we insist on seeing individuals,then we won't have people hiring (fill in the blank) or having (blank) friends.

    We'll have dolls of different ethnicities but we won't have a "Hispanic" Barbie any more than an "Aryan" Jamal.

    We'll be able to learn from all of our own cultures and histories-as well as those of our neighbors.

    A person's inclusion in society would not be based on whether or not they belonged to a "quota group" or some artificial "default" setting.

    When we acquire that kind of maturity,pride won't mean arrogance and it won't be a defense mechanism.

    There will be one "us" with countless different faces.

    We will be who we are as ourselves rather than in comparison or opposition to anyone else.

    Until then,while we work our way out of our adversarial relationships,we need to ask:

    In the game of "Divide and Conquer",just who are the ones who are supposed to be winning?

    -- Posted by quantumcat on Mon, Mar 10, 2008, at 3:32 PM
  • In the game of "Divide and Conquer",just who are the ones who are supposed to be winning?

    -- Posted by quantumcat on Mon, Mar 10, 2008, at 3:32 PM

    In that type of game, only the Devil wins. That is one of his game plans, It is called "CHAOS". He will turn mothers against child, sons against fathers, husbands against wife, or man against woman, religions against religions, and all races against each other.

    "BET" is not only "Black Entertainers Music" their are "White Entertainers Music" as well. You are not going to find more than 3 Black singers if that on Country Music, Grand Ole Opry either. Most Black entertainers sing R&B or Rap, or christian gospel, and have extreme dance, and stepping. In the past black people were not put on TV, they eventually let some that were Very light skin, these type of things caused rivalry between Light skin blacks and dark skin blacks. Just like during slavery, dark skin blacks were made to work out in the fields, and the lighter skin blacks were made to work inside the homes. They were given special treatment because of the color of their skin.

    "Black" in BET is all races, that sing ethnic music. You have: Pink, Christina Ageliera - she has a very spirital Voice, M&M, Vanilla Ice, Justin Timberlake and other groups I never heard of before; these people are white their are other races too.

    The American History has alot of info about people that have done things in America, the wars that were fought, all the presidents, and so on. Their is a small section of the Civil Rights Movement and Martin Luther King. African Americans "Blacks" had a "BIG" change of life once they were free from Slavery. It is a big chapter in African Americans Life. And so this History is important to them, the people that stood up and fault against this racial segregation, slavery, and abuse are considered Heroes. So not letting what they fought for, and what took place Die through Generations untold, Black History Month "month of Febuary" It is only 1 month out of the year, is a month that African Americans have events recognizing their History, and their Ancestors.

    Don't get upset every time you see Black, or African, or Hispanic, or some other "Minority Race" for a church or some kind of organization, they are minority groups that were not aloud to be a member of white organizations, so they formed a organizations they can be in.

    -- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Mon, Mar 10, 2008, at 9:12 PM
  • I remember when some people actually spoke with a degree of regret about one disadvantage of integration.

    The removal of our local version of apartheid meant that there would be one set of everything.

    As the default set up was for whites,the blended system was white-but "tainted" by the addition of new people who dared to insist on respect as full human beings.

    The end of segregation would remove separation before it would offer equality.

    Ghettoes (whether for Jews,people of color,etc.) give minorities the chance to meet their own needs and their own tastes.

    Men who would be treated with disdain in the mainstream realm could run businesses,take leadership roles in organizations and,in other ways,fufill their untapped potential in their own world.

    The most successful members would have to share that world with the least because neither had anywhere else to go.

    Later on,one didn't see as much integration of minorities into all areas as much as one saw the powerful of all types living and working in one spot while the more desperate struggled in another.

    Minority persons might not have access to a group or job but now,with each advance toward true equality,they must confront the implication that all obstacles are gone and that nothing stands between them and success but their own flaws-or the spite of the ruling class.

    This loss of places to develop and prosper was felt by ethnic minorities as the civil rights efforts opened doors but it was also felt by women who feared that when there was no "need" for separate schools and organizations for women,there would be fewer places for them to achieve.

    Our coming together and becoming ever more diverse is a good thing but a homegenization that blends away all our distinct qualities threatens to deny the whole the benefits that can only be derived from our unique virtues.

    We need to be able to find people like ourselves in every part of society.

    That means being inclusive.

    But,we need to have times and places that are just for the various pieces of who we are: age,gender,ethnicity,ideology,locale,interests,whatever.

    We require exclusive places that let us discover and hone ourselves.

    It's natural for there to be some resentment of these niches by people who feel shut out (especially if they feel they are being attacked behind closed doors) but such institutions are not meant to be an assault or intrusion upon those on the outside.

    They are meant to be havens that celebrate those that are within them.

    Perhaps,they may still serve as fortresses more than sanctuaries or places of healing and learning.

    But,as those needs lessen and the realm we share becomes a more comfortable place,there is still a use for businesses,groups,networks,etc. that make sure that no segment of our society will have its heritage and unique perspectives lost.

    -- Posted by quantumcat on Tue, Mar 11, 2008, at 4:09 AM
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