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Well, what did you think?

Posted Friday, December 28, 2007, at 9:23 AM

"When are you going to do something about those Muslims?"

"How did they get here?"

"They're rude, they smell."

"[REDACTED] has ruined this town. First it was the Mexicans, now this!"

"We just need to understand them."

"They're jihadists! Haven't you seen Black Hawk Down?"

These are just some of the questions and opinions that I have heard over the past year, asked by people from all walks of life in Bedford County. And since many of you asked, I felt that the variety of questions dealing with the influx of Somalis into our area had to be addressed.

In fact, this series would have been completed several months earlier had there been cooperation from the Somali community from the beginning.

Back in the summer, I was approached by an important local official who suggested doing a series on the Somalis in the hopes that telling their story would smooth over relations between them and the community at large. The problems that I have reported on, such as the rude and demanding attitude, have been causing an immense amount of friction and it was hoped that educating the public may help to create better understanding.

I agreed and the Somalis were contacted through those official channels.

However, no response was ever received. I waited for months.

In the meantime, people were still asking why we weren't "doing anything" about the Somalis, as if we could wave a magic wand and solve the many problems. In October, I got an earful from folks waiting with me at the driver's license testing center after a group of Somalis walked in, broke line and announced loudly that the veiled woman they had in tow was there to "test the road."

The rumors and stories I heard that day were disturbing. But they all had one theme in common - the attitude of these newcomers were causing an enormous amount of ugly feelings in the county, even more so than when the Hispanics began first moving to the area in great numbers. I found it likely that there would be serious trouble in the future.

Then, in late November, I became aware of the controversy going on in Emporia, Kansas - a town that appeared to have a great deal in common with Shelbyville, specifically a large employer that attracted huge numbers of foreign nationals into the community.

People that began clashing with the folks that lived there. Just like in Shelbyville.

So I set out to do the series anyhow, with or without the help of the people in question. Since the Somalis would not speak to me through official channels, I would contact the people who brought them to this country and go from there.

I've tried to cover every aspect of this story, yet it never seemed to be enough. More information would be sent to me or discovered, and I had to weigh how it would contribute to the overall series and if it were relevant to Shelbyville.

There were several things I left out. For example, this report from WSMV that dealt with the Somali Community Center of Nashville. There were some very disturbing allegations made there, yet I could not see how it impacted Shelbyville in a direct way. Simply including it in the series without some sort of a local connection might have been considered a cheap shot and I was trying to make this as balanced as possible.

In fact, there have been so many negative stories told to this reporter about the Somalis in Shelbyville that including all of them may have been interpreted by some as "piling on."

About the charges of overt political correctness: Again, I tried to be as balanced as I possibly could be, and unfortunately some folks didn't like the answers I got from the organizations who were responsible for bringing these refugees into our community. And some of these groups never even responded to my repeated calls and e-mails.

Those were their words, not mine and I was attempting to let the ideas of others speak for themselves so that the reader could understand the motivations and belief systems that drives the refugee resettlement movement. Doing so without the typical editorial comments seen in my blog and opinion columns appears to have left the impression that I agreed with everything I wrote.

That is certainly not the case, I assure you.

Indeed, many news articles written about the refugees does take that glowing politically correct, cultural diversity route while covering this story. But the problems related to settling these folks in modern society are overwhelming, as can be seen here.

When I began working on the series nearly a month ago, I knew I had to put my personal feelings and opinions aside if this was going to be a balanced piece. As you will see in my column set for publication Sunday, I have several serious reservations with how these people are being placed throughout the country.

I've always said that you know you're over the target when you start taking flak and judging from the responses I have received, I feel that I have accomplished what I set out to do: Educate Bedford County about an extremely important issue that will have to be dealt with now and in the future.

How the public responds to it, is another matter entirely.

So, what did you think?


Comments
Showing comments in chronological order
[Show most recent comments first]

IF THEY ARE COMING INTO OUR COUNTY, THEN THEY NEED TO OBEY OUR LAWS AND HAVE RESPECT FOR THE WAY OUR COUNTY OPERATES AND IF THEY DONT LIKE IT THEN THEY MAY GO BACK WHERE THEY CAME FROM!!!

-- Posted by jssg1975 on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 10:07 AM

What do I think? My head is hurting from all the issues this group of folks is causing for themselves and us. Throwing money at the situation like the Nashville story is typical of government agencies. From what was reported, it is absurd.

It seems that you alluded to a "refugee school" that teaches them to be forceful and rude. Were you able to follow up on that? Common sense in ANY language would seem to say that you do not be obnoxious to your hosts. There is something missing in the translation of their training.

The gentleman in CT seems to have made a major step in adjusting. Surely there are more like him who could communicate better and help these folks adapt. Why not spend some money on people like him so he can help and get out of poverty at the same time.

America was built on helping, although many propagandists always claim that we are the blood thirsty, power hungry horde. The moral thing to do is help, but our government needs some common sense as well. Throwing money into a hole that could even be funding terrorist activities should be an illegal act.

-- Posted by stevemills on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 10:10 AM

I think YOU did a great job. More fair and balanced than I could have been. I think the idea of us adjusting to and learning about them is crap, as we didn't move to Somalia. That's just my opinion though and it doesn't carry much weight. You, however, did a good job.

-- Posted by LauraSFT on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 10:15 AM

Brian,

I think you did a good job of writing a balanced story, as a good journalist should do.

I appreciate the education, but I still have no appreciation of the Somali people and like many other people that commented on the story blogs I am angry with our government for allowing them to come here in the first place.

Keep up the good work Brian and perhaps I missed it, but maybe it would be good for the local and state taxpayers if the T-G would post the addresses and phone numbers of local, state and federal officials to contact over concerns about the Somali people being allowed to come here in the first place.

William

-- Posted by HorseGentler on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 10:16 AM

These are absolutley the RUDEST people that I have ever met in my life. They do Smell, they travel in packs, and they will not let you by in the aisles at Walmart either. Then your like, "Excuse Me" and they just give you a dirty look (without moving) and then start talking all crazy. I really think something needs to be done about this. I do not feel that anyone in this community needs to cater to any of their needs. When is someone actually going to put their foot down about all these people coming in to Bedford County?????? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Posted by ~*~justmyopinion~*~ on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 10:18 AM

I think the idea of us adjusting to and learning about them is crap, as we didn't move to Somalia.

-- Posted by LauraSFT on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 10:15 AM

I certainly second that comment!

William

-- Posted by HorseGentler on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 10:20 AM

My problem with the entire mess is a few things that all back to the source.

1) Tyson profiting and we paying

2) refugees profiting and we paying

3) community centers for the refugees profiting and we paying

4) Not being told that we are getting slammed with people that took our jobs, our resources and our housing.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 10:40 AM

Steve, when I get a chance, I will look into that. If the refugees are told to be demanding and agressive, it may explain many of the problems that have been reported to me. Remember that Ed Gray said that someone had promised the Somails that the school system would provide child care. They had to have gotten that idea from somewhere since the concept of child care as we know it does not seem to exist in their native culture.

-- Posted by Brian Mosely on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 11:09 AM

All of you also may want to read these "expectations" that Somali familes have for American schools. They might surprise you.

http://ww2.saturn.stpaul.k12.mn.us/somal...

-- Posted by Brian Mosely on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 11:21 AM

I don't think my forefathers fought for all these nationalities to come here.

Nor would they be proud at what has happened to the America they fought for.

-- Posted by mmp84 on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 12:06 PM

Brian- Thank you for doing this! I know this series of articles can't be all things to all people.But it's a heckuva good start.We are posting links to your articles in the Emporia Gazette resettlement forums.To you and all your readers-feel free to stop by and throw in your 2 cents!

http://www.emporiagazette.com/forums/ope...

Discussion: Refugee resettlement | emporiagazette.com

-- Posted by blulitespecial on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 12:50 PM

Brian,

So we need to change the entire educational system to suit a few people's religious beliefs? This is why we do not have religion in our classrooms, in government buildings etc. Because of these situations.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 12:58 PM

I find the article about Somali educational concerns interesting from the standpoint of how the Civil Liberty folks will adjust to it. How can they accept all the religious rights they are asking for and still restrict Christians?

-- Posted by stevemills on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 1:08 PM

OK enough already! I have quietly read all of the articles and all of the blogs relating to the Somali's. I have had a few "unpleasant" run ins with the disrespectful men of this culture, I have seen their filth first hand and although I try to be tolerant of everyone enough is enough. I have hit on all of the links but the one that Brian included about their education expectations is over the top. We can barely educate our own American students let alone the Hispanics and now I read this article about what Somali's require (or like to expect) to educate their children.........there is NO WAY I would ever be in agreement to allowing our education system to meet their needs. MY children are not allowed to have open prayer (yes I know they can pray any time they wish to as long as no one knows they are doing it and they don't ask anyone else to participate)but Somali's feel they should be allowed to have rooms available, restrooms for all the washing of body parts.........come on this is ridiculous. Also the part about PE should be optional for them because they might touch someone.......get over it. I was never asked if I wanted to participate in PE.....I was told I would do it, period or fail!

Brian, I know you are trying to be helpful but in this case I'm not sure that the desired results will be gained. I feel our community has tried to be accepting of immigrants but when does it end.......our county and city is going bankrupt trying to educate and provide services for people who are NOT making a financial contribution. Renting an apartment is not the same as paying property tax and the amount of taxes paid at the checkout line is not enough to educate their children. It is no secret they are here due to Tyson.....but if people in this town would do the jobs and if Tyson would treat their employees like they should be treated we might not have this influx of Somali's. We are their second settlement point because the jobs at the first point didn't work out. Everyone says send them to class and teach them our ways........they won't go to a class. Elaine Weaver clearly stated "they come when and if they want to, they don't understand that they must come on a regular schedule". These classes cost......you and me our tax dollars. If you read the related links that have been posted the dollar amounts that the government has given these organizations is staggering..........imagine what could be done if we closed our borders, sent everyone who is not here legally and who is here as refugees from these war torn countries back. We could provide medical care for our elderly, housing and food for the poor, educate our children and be sure their teachers had all the necessary tools to teach. Ok I will climb off my soap box for now and letting off steam on a blog is not productive other than to relieve the momentary frustration with our system...we as American citizens who have the right to vote need to make it clear to our leaders what we will and will not tolerate! It is time we take control of OUR country and demand answers!

-- Posted by Go Figure on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 2:54 PM

Very nicely said Go Figure. But Tyson actively seeks to fire locals for the slightest thing they can find. There are plenty of people that would work there if given the chance. Problem is, the Union and Tyson doesn't care.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 5:46 PM

Maybe some tough love is in order.

As I understand it,many locales demand that students stay in school and mantain decent grades or they are denied their drivers' licenses and their guardians can get jail time or be evicted from public housing.

The adults have the responsibility to see that the children get the necessary knowledge until the students are emancipated or made wards of the state.

Perhaps employers could be denied incentives or fined until their workers had received medical attention,complied with counselling and education requirements and completed a required orientation.

This would apply to any other "sponsors",as well.

Before anyone living here could receive outside assistance,they would need to demonstrate a willingness to make the most of themselves.

If someone CAN'T learn or do,they need more help than they are getting.

If a person WON'T learn or do,we can't be expected to pay for their folly.

"Enabling" is supposed to mean helping someone become more functional.

It shouldn't be defined as denying people any hope or expectation of becoming better than they are at their start.

If we owe any persons rights or privileges,we owe them enough respect to insist that they do all they can to be participants in our community and neither parasite nor victim.

This standard would be for immigrant or native-born,the needy or the well-to-do.

Few among us will get through life without needing the support of those around us.

Even fewer are those who could thrive without ever doing for themselves or being of benefit to others.

Let's insist that,if people want the perks of living as normal adults in a free country,they act according to that role.

All of us should be better off if that happens.

NO one should prosper so long as it doesn't.

-- Posted by quantumcat on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 11:03 PM

I for one am tired of being politically correct our country our rules our language , if I need in the aisle nd they won't move I will ask once kindly then they will move .

They want to cater to their beliefs and their ways but some try to take away the beliefs and ways this country was based on , don't figure?

-- Posted by michaelbell on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 11:38 PM

I understand the reasoning for Brian doing these articles and agree that he did the best possible job trying to see both sides of the issue even though I didn't at first. However, I don't think this articles really accomplished much on the issue accept for understanding the Somali culture a little better. It doesn't change the actions or behavior of the Somalis who live here or the opinions of those who think Somalis being here is a problem or an issue. The fact that the Somalis did not want to participate in your articles show their disregard for this community and acclimating to it.

It just gets really old when our government continues to bombard us with people like this and asks us to pay and accommodate but yet we are the ones who suffer in the long run because our culture keeps getting stomped on so we can accommodate those who choose to live here. It is very sickening and if people don't start voicing their concerns over this and government taking action to curtail it, then I am afraid more serious problem will arise and people will take matters in their own hands. That is something we definitely don't want to see.

I believe in treating them in the same manner that they treat you . . . if they wont move out of your way at Wal-Mart then proceed to use your buggy to move them out of the way. They will get the message if you go forward and let them know that are proceeding whether they like it or not. If they cut in line at the drivers license station, then every single person waiting in line should direct them to the back of the line and let them know their attitude and behavior will not be accepted. We must stand together and let them know that this behavior will not be accepted by American citizens. That is the way you teach them to accept living here in the United States of America. They should also have to follow the policies of the school that every other student has to follow . . if students cant stop and pray when they want then Somalis shouldn't either and if they decide to follow a standard school attire then so should the Somalis. If they don't like following the accepted rules in our county and country then there are many roads that lead out of Shelbyville and Bedford County and we wont stop them.

This is a problem and it needs to be addressed before it even becomes a more serious one.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Sat, Dec 29, 2007, at 1:14 PM

Who the heck taught these people how to drive? How did they obtain their drivers license? There is one particular group of Somalian women who drive around in a black Saturn. I have personally witnessed them drive on the wrong side of the road, disobey traffic signals, etc. I nearly collided head on with them as they were coming of the square, you guessed it...they were on the wrong side of the street. I have seen others of their nationality drive as if not one single traffic law applied to them at all.

-- Posted by Tim Lokey on Sat, Dec 29, 2007, at 11:47 PM

I think if these people come here, they should become a part of our society "ONLY" if they are legal, they do as we do, they keep their demanding ways to themselves, and they take more baths. They also should be made to take a class on how to speak our language. Like one person said, we didn't move to their country, they came to ours and when in another country, you do as they do. I don't know why America has let all of these people come here. We are losing our country by leaps and bounds and no one seems to be doing anything about it. I am just glad to know that there are other folks who feel the same way as I do.

-- Posted by jkelley on Sun, Dec 30, 2007, at 8:58 AM

I worry that any requests for accommodation and understanding will backfire if all the adapting seems to be coming from one side and the need to care about ALL people is ignored.

Most people here have learned to make allowances for someone during their lives.

It's likely some folks have accommodated them at one time or another,too.

They've learned from being told or personal experience why one child's allergies means no peanut butter at daycare.

They know why its polite to have sugar-free drinks around for diabetics.

They know why this person won't get vaccinations,that one won't take blood,another won't wear clothing with buttons and some others think t.v.,movies,make-up and soft drinks are sinful.

They know to moderate their language,activities and appearance around certain neighbors.

But,an inherent courtesy and respect for differences gets weakened if it's perceived that its just one group that has to be aware and considerate.

All we have to do is observe the reactions to smoking and drinking restrictions,dress codes,"blue laws",etc. to see that "politically correct" rules can sometimes create so much resentment that "proper" behavior is rejected on general principle.

In this instance,"Ask,Don't Tell" would seem to be a good idea to implement.

We'll listen if you tell us why you can't work Saturdays or why you must have facial hair.

We'll accept your choice to avoid meat and leather and furs.

We'll get used to the idea that males in kilts,pierced navels and rock music make some of you uncomfortable.

But,there has to be a willingness to obey the laws or make new ones and a readiness to "agree to disagree" where our differences don't impose on one another.

We're a lot better at acting to suit our friends than we are our masters.

If you want us to modify our lives to match yours,reason with us,ASK us.

Let us give you our reasons for saying yes or no to your requests.

We might just do unto you as we'd like people to do unto us.

-- Posted by quantumcat on Sun, Dec 30, 2007, at 12:14 PM

It appears that Mr. Mosley has succeeded in whipping every biggot in town into a frenzy of hate and anger. Since he gave the location of their mosque and homes, if these are burned by his KKK disciples, it will be his doing and any resulting blood will be on his hands as sure as if he had done it himself. And all of this because he feels these people are impolite???

-- Posted by andy33 on Sun, Dec 30, 2007, at 3:41 PM

What a stupid remark to make loblert . . . just goes to show your ignorance on the matter and the issue.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Sun, Dec 30, 2007, at 4:05 PM

loblert -

What really ticked me off was when the Somali woman said: "You Americans make me sick" because she was told, very politely I might add, to pay $5.00 for a traffic report!

Did she expect PREFERENTIAL treatment by wanting a FREE one?

Hey, no one FORCED them to come here, they came of their own free will, yet here they are being NASTY, DISRESPECTFUL, HATEFUL, and DEMANDING SPECIAL TREATMENT!

Anytime one relocates to either another state or country, one must OBEY THE LAW no matter how they feel about that law personally! THE LAW IS THE LAW AND REGULATIONS ARE REGULATIONS!

It's about time a reporter TOLD THE TRUTH about these people instead of pussyfooting around!

Fact: ALL the 911 hijackers were Muslim-

Fact: Almost all Suicide/Homicide bombers are Muslim-

Fact: Who do you see in news footage shouting "Death to America"? Hint: MUSLIMS!

Fact: Who KILLS innocent people in the name of Allah? Hint: MUSLIMS!

Fact: Who has public BEHEADINGS? Hint: MUSLIMS

I could go on and on but I really don't want to waste my time.

In any case, their ultimate objective is to infiltrate our society and get Muslims elected to public office, thereby enabling them to enact legislation (state and federal) which could change our society for hundreds and hundreds of years.

In other words, changing the United States into a culture of Islam.

-- Posted by puppydinks on Sun, Dec 30, 2007, at 5:04 PM

Label me a racist if you want to, I probably am. I'm sick to death of our country bending over backwards for the illegals & refugees. If we took care of our own it would be different but our senior citizens need help! They do good to pay their utilities & go without medications because they cannot afford them. If they get a SS raise then their insurance goes up. Help the people that raised us, not the people that turn their noses at our laws and if anyone is watching not one of the people running for PRESIDENT is listening to us, Democrats or Republicans!

-- Posted by melvaj on Sun, Dec 30, 2007, at 8:12 PM

I exactly agree melvaj . . .it seems the government is more willing to help outsiders than our own senior citizens and veterans who have paid their dues to our society and should deserve the help and financial breaks that our government is so willing to give those who could care less about America and its laws.

Its really sad and frustrating. I dont pay taxes to go to people who could care less about me or my fellow citizens.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Sun, Dec 30, 2007, at 8:42 PM

What part of what I said was wrong? You admit to being racists. You admit to feeling hate and anger toward the Somalis. You thank Mosely for whipping you into a frenzy. You say something needs to be done about the Somalis. I think we agree on every point except that I think such hatred is un-Christian and immoral. I think Mr. Mosely is using you in hopes of producing a violent outcome without getting his own hands dirty.

-- Posted by andy33 on Mon, Dec 31, 2007, at 6:48 AM

To all who have posted: What is the worst experience that you have personally had with a Somali. Don't hold back. We know Mr. Mosely's hatred was cemented when had to endure overhearing some sassy comments at the DMV. Have you too been scarred by such horrible trauma at the hands of a Somali? Perhaps one cut you off in traffic? Do share.

-- Posted by andy33 on Mon, Dec 31, 2007, at 6:57 AM

loblert,

Mosely didn't whip us up into a frenzy, nor is it a frenzy.

We are sick and tired of OUR RIGHTS being violated and having to kowtow to people who come here DEMANDING THAT WE ACCOMMODATE THEM!

These people come here on the U.S. Government AND State & Local Government gravy trains then complain that they aren't be treated FAIRLY!

GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK!

-- Posted by puppydinks on Mon, Dec 31, 2007, at 8:37 AM

Puppydinks -

Tell me when a Somali violated your rights. Tell me how you have accomodated a Somali. Tell me when you have heard a Somali complain that the government has not treated him fairly. I am just curious.

-- Posted by andy33 on Mon, Dec 31, 2007, at 9:14 AM

I don't need to accommodate anyone.

My "rights" are violated as a TAXPAYER, when I see MY HARD EARNED TAXPAYERS DOLLARS being used to SUBSIDIZE programs for what are basically "illegal immigrants" as they are NOT YET U.S. CITIZENS!

Then when I read about the Somali woman saying that "Americans make her sick", because she was be ASKED VERY POLITELY to pay FIVE BUCKS for a traffic report - I say she was doing more than just complaining she was DISRESPECTING the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!

-- Posted by puppydinks on Mon, Dec 31, 2007, at 9:44 AM

One more thing - as for "accommodation" --what do you think is being done with our TAXPAYERS DOLLARS to bring them here, find housing & jobs for them, etc., etc., etc.?

No one has ever had to "accommodate" me to find a job, a place to live, funds to relocate....

I call this TAXPAYER ACCOMMODATION.

-- Posted by puppydinks on Mon, Dec 31, 2007, at 10:00 AM

Puppidinks -

So as I understand it, you are saying that you are not basing your hatred of Somali people on negative personal experiences with them. Correct?

Instead, you are angry with them because: (i) the U.S. government should not have paid to resettle them; (ii) they are legal residents but have not yet attained citizenship; and (iii) Brian Mosely wrote about one Somali woman who once impolitely insulted a police officer.

Have I got that right?

-- Posted by andy33 on Mon, Dec 31, 2007, at 10:23 AM

BTW, I address loblert's opinions here:

http://www.t-g.com/blogs/brianmosely/ent...

-- Posted by Brian Mosely on Mon, Dec 31, 2007, at 10:48 AM

loblert,

Where did I say I hated them? Looks to me as though they HATE US.

Furthermore Mosely's article has NOTHING TO DO WHATSOEVER with my opinions. Last time I read the U.S. Constitution there is still a 1st Amendment right to "free speech" - correct?

My opinions began on SEPTEMBER 11, 2001 and when I realized HOW THE MUSLIMS HATE AMERICANS!

ALL the 911 hijackers were from wealthy MUSLIM families.

When I see Muslims dancing in the streets, shaking their fists and shouting "death to America" and exuberant because of the 911 attacks,,

When I see Muslims BEHEADING innocent Journalists and then saying this is done in the name of ALLAH...

When I see our men and women in uniform trying to help these people in Iraq and Afghanistan and then getting spat upon...

THIS IS WHAT ANGERS ME!

I mentioned the Somali woman as an example. This kind of behavior and statements such as this have happened before in other parts of the U.S.

I object to my taxpayers dollars being used to relocate them - My ancestors didn't receive any government services or dollars when they came here from Germany in the early 1800's and even though they had very little money, they did fine.

Now some of these "immigrants" are forming gangs and committing crimes against innocent U.S. citizens - do you condone this?

Do you approve of your taxpayers dollars supporting them? If so, then why don't you voluntarily pay additional taxes to "assist" all immigrants, not just the Somali's.

Have I got that right??

-- Posted by puppydinks on Mon, Dec 31, 2007, at 10:51 AM

Puppydinks -

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

-- Posted by andy33 on Mon, Dec 31, 2007, at 2:02 PM

You're welcome.

-- Posted by puppydinks on Mon, Dec 31, 2007, at 2:13 PM

Here's some info regarding ILLEGALS and what it's COSTING THE TAXAPAYERS--

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscale...

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscale...

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0...

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0...

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0...

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0...

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.

http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/2...

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are

caused by the illegal aliens.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0...

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0...

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period." http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/p...

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States ".

http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whooping

$ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR

-- Posted by puppydinks on Tue, Jan 1, 2008, at 5:03 PM

"illegal immigrants" Can we please stop calling the Somalian people this. They are not Illegal, our goverment brought them here.

Years ago as the Hispanic community settled here we saw the same things. I myself have showed Hispanics years ago and Somalians in the last several years our hygene isle at the stores and explained what they needed to do with these items.

Do I think that we as a country should change or have exceptions in our schools no. That is our culture and yes Somalians do need to learn it but we need not to think it will happen over night as it did not with the Hispanics. By doing is when you are the best teacher. I have found when Somalians do things that are not "accepted" tell them nicely.... It helps you will see a change.. Once again, it will not happen over night it is a work in progress.

Mr. Mosley, I do think that you did a great job of reporting on this and I truly enjoyed reading it.

-- Posted by Shelbyville my home on Tue, Jan 1, 2008, at 9:39 PM

Subsidizing "non-legal" immigrants is one of the reasons why our income taxes are so high.

BTW. from now on, when referring to the Somali's I will refer to their "status" as "non-legal" since they are NOT LEGALLY U.S. CITIZENS.

In any case, ILLEGALs & NON-LEGALs are costing us as a country BILLIONS; so next time you file your income taxes to Uncle Sam, remember this and don't complain.

-- Posted by puppydinks on Wed, Jan 2, 2008, at 6:53 AM

GAO (Government Accounting Office) just published a report dated December 2007, titled;

The Impact of Unauthorized
Immigrants on the Budgets of
State and Local Governments
DECEMBER 2007

This report is long and very detailed but goes back and forth so much it takes hour after hour of reading and re-reading much of the data for the reader to draw any conclusions.



However, the bottom line was that illegal immigrants are costing State and local governments much more than they contribute (in taxes). However, at the Federal level that is not the case. This should strike everyone as 1) no surprise and 2) very ironic. 

You see the Federal Government (read: our elected representatives and Senators up through the White House) are the very ones that put in place all the requirements for the State and local governments to bear the brunt of illegal immigrants. All the while they have restricted illegal immigrants from being qualified to reap certain prohibited benefits that the federal government provides through Social Security and such need-based programs as Food Stamps, Medicaid (other than emergency services), and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families.



However, the State and local levels have been ordered, yes ordered through laws and court decisions to provide illegal immigrants with many costly services regardless of their ability (or inability) to pay for said services. The most costly services involve Health, Education and Law Enforcement. (Meanwhile the Federal Government only contributes roughly 7-10% of all education costs). But for the States and local governments to remain recipients of many of the Federal Programs (this 7-10% of education money for example) they may not restrict to whom they provide services!



Another factor playing into the "pay more, enough or not enough" debate over how much illegal immigration is costing us (at the State and local levels primarily) is the wage earning amount of the illegal versus legal immigrants and native born. Because they make less than they contribute in taxes and need more in assistance than both legal immigrants and native born they are taxed at the much lower rate. (And that is for the illegal we are aware of and pay taxes as they are supposed to).



The bottom line is we are being squeezed at all levels for our hard-earned tax dollars but we are seeing less and less for what WE are contributing, as native born citizens. As the economy gets bleaker and our State and local governments continue to raise our taxes it becomes harder and harder for most citizens to remain mute on the subject. 

We simply CANNOT continue to allow this unequal dissemination of services to a segment of the population who are both ILLEGAL and non-contributors. (Remember, if you are taking more than you are giving you are a non-contributor, and this is a fact supported in this GAO report, not opinion or "picking on" as has been portrayed in the media for the last several years.)



This goes beyond "racial" or "bullying" the immigrant as is most often reported by those sympathetic to the plight of the illegal. This is common sense. If your family budget is $100 for the month and your expenses are $1,000 per month some things have to change. Most of us start with the discretionary and get rid of those expenses and then move on to the "what can we do without" that we need but just can't afford.

We really need to start doing the same concerning illegal immigration and it needs to start real, real soon.


-- Posted by puppydinks on Wed, Jan 2, 2008, at 7:33 AM

puppydinks-

O.K. than stop bringing up Unauthorized
Immigrants, or what ever you chose for the day. Somalians have nothing to do with this... Please get off the "illegal" issue you have. Yes, contrary to what you think some have went through with becoming U.S. CITIZENS. Many of our family's came here generations ago as "non-legal".

-- Posted by Shelbyville my home on Wed, Jan 2, 2008, at 8:02 PM

Please answer me this - IF the Somali's are here "legally" are they paying Income Taxes to the Federal Government and are they paying State and Local property taxes (if they own real estate)?

If they aren't paying one or the other (or both, as most of us do), then obviously they're "undocumented", "unauthorized" or "illegal"!

-- Posted by puppydinks on Wed, Jan 2, 2008, at 8:17 PM

Does anyone have answers to my aforementioned questions or am I correct when I say the Somali's are not technically "legal" U.S. citizens??

Consequently, they don't pay income or property taxes?

-- Posted by puppydinks on Thu, Jan 3, 2008, at 9:24 AM

yes they are paying income taxes..

If they own a home they pay taxes..

If they buy a car they pay taxes..

When they go to wal-mart they pay taxes..

They are just like us they are taxed to death to...

etc.. etc..

They by no means are any form of illegal..

If they were my voice on this would be soooooooooo!!!! much different.

-- Posted by Shelbyville my home on Thu, Jan 3, 2008, at 7:30 PM

They are Non-Citizens, yes they are here legally under the refugee program.

Yes, Non-Citizens who are in the country pay taxes. Of course keep in mind they get the exact same tax breaks as you do plus a few more you don't get because they are refugee status..ie Earned Income Credit: Most are making such a low wage and have children so they actually get back much more from the IRS than they have paid in... so yes in a sense they pay during the year as you do..but their tax breaks give them more than they paid in back when they file in April.

As far as property taxes go..I doubt if many of them actually own any real property. I am not sure any bank would give an Non-citizen a bank loan for a home if they did they are crazier than I ever thought.

-- Posted by Dianatn on Fri, Jan 4, 2008, at 9:41 AM

Many refugees take advantage of the matching grants program to get a car for 1/2 price.In one state(Nebraska?)the church resettlement contractor had to get a car dealers license,they were flipping so many cars.Here is another program- Individual Development Account-

Account Activity

From the beginning of the program in FY 1999 through September 30, 2005, 19,065 participants opened accounts. They had the following asset purchase goals: vehicle, 58 percent; home, 19 percent; post-secondary education, 8 percent; computers, 7 percent; and microenterprise, 7 percent. Participants who completed the program saved $27 million, which was matched by $46.1 million.

From September 30, 2005 through March 31, 2006, 86 participants have opened accounts. Forty-seven percent are saving for a microenterprise, 38% are saving for a home, 11% are saving for a vehicle, and 5% are saving for post-secondary education. These participants have a savings goal of $224,000, and to date have saved $37,895. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/orr/data...

Office Of Refugee Resettlement: Data

-- Posted by blulitespecial on Fri, Jan 4, 2008, at 2:18 PM

Well now I am just plain pist, a car for half off? This is plain bull, I am fighting this crap and I am going to go apepooh on local, state and federal. I will spend every dime I have to get this crap outlawed.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Fri, Jan 4, 2008, at 6:54 PM

Evil Monkey- Here's a link to a good overview of the whole resettlement deal we get.There are other places-VDare is one.I kinda like RRW,and post there once in a great while.The American Legion has "Immigration Policy 2008" on their home page.It's a pdf file,and it IS worth the read.Use it as a reference when you call or write your representatives.

http://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpres...

Refugee Resettlement Fact Sheets Refugee Resettlement Watch

-- Posted by blulitespecial on Sat, Jan 5, 2008, at 12:17 AM

Between the ILLEGALS and REFUGEES, the true legal citizens are being HOSED BIG TIME!!

-- Posted by puppydinks on Sat, Jan 5, 2008, at 7:33 AM

The rest of you can play the victim as long as you want. My sugestion to all of you if you don't like it do something about it....

I have already said once even though I do not have a problem with them being here that if just one of you would take action I would sign or help you out just to actually see someone take action other than just the words they type from there key board. You all can still be putting up post about this months down the road but unless you do something it will not change a thing...

-- Posted by Shelbyville my home on Sun, Jan 6, 2008, at 3:54 PM

Write to your State representatives - also write to the representatives in Congress, both House and Senate.

Present facts (especially where it involves Federal and State funding) and be as clear and concise as possible, in other words, don't ramble.

This is what it will take to change things!! The more correspondence these people get from THE CITIZENS, the better - otherwise nothing will change.

-- Posted by puppydinks on Mon, Jan 7, 2008, at 7:06 AM

I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with seed.

What a beauty of a bird feeder it is, as I filled it lovingly with seed.

Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free

and

easily accessible food.

But then the birds started

building nests in the boards

of the patio, above the table, and next to the barbecue.

Then came the poop. It was

everywhere: on the patio tile, the chairs, the table ...

everywhere!

Then some of the birds

turned mean. They would

dive bomb me and try to

peck me even though I had

fed them out of my own

pocket.

And others birds were

boisterous and loud. They

sat on the feeder and

squawked and screamed at

all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food.

After a while, I couldn't even sit on my own back porch anymore. So I took down

the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone. I cleaned up their mess

and took down the many nests they had built

all over the patio.

Soon, the back yard was like it used to be . quiet, serene and no one demanding

their rights to a free meal.

Now let's see ..

Our government gives out

free food, subsidized housing, free medical care, and free education and allows anyone born here to be an automatic citizen.

Then the illegals (and refugees) came by the tens of thousands. Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for free services; small apartments are housing 5 families; you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency room doctor.

Your child's 2nd

grade class is behind other schools because

over half the class doesn't speak English.

Corn Flakes now come in a

bilingual box;

I have to "press one" to hear my bank talk to me in English, and people waving flags other

than "Old Glory" are

squawking and screaming

in the streets, demanding

more rights and free liberties.

Just my opinion, but maybe

it's time for the government

to take down the bird feeder.

SEND THIS TO YOUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES!!

-- Posted by puppydinks on Tue, Jan 8, 2008, at 10:27 AM


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Brian Mosely is a staff writer for the Times-Gazette.
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