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Thursday, July 24, 2014

About "Welcome to Shelbyville"

Posted Saturday, May 21, 2011, at 5:01 PM

(Photo)
A scene from "Welcome to Shelbyville."
As many of our readers are aware, in late 2007, I wrote a five part series about the impact that the introduction of Somali refugees were having on Bedford County. The stories focused on how the refugees got here, their traditions and beliefs, and took an honest look at the many cultural clashes that were taking place between the locals and the newcomers.

The series provoked a huge controversy, along with much discussion and debate from members of our community.

Then, in August 2008, the Times-Gazette reported that a new union contract at the Shelbyville Tyson Foods facility replaced Labor Day as a paid holiday with the Muslim festival of Eid al-Fitr.

That story put Shelbyville on the national stage, with the topic touching off coverage from the national news media, as well as massive attention on the issue from talk radio hosts, websites and blogs, some of which continues to this very day.

The controversy the stories created led a documentary crew to Shelbyville in late 2008 to shoot "Welcome to Shelbyville," which will air nationwide, May 24 on PBS at 9 p.m.. The film received financing from progressive migration advocates, and has been sponsored by the state department as overseas propaganda. The "propaganda" label comes from no less an authority than the New York Times.

I viewed the film twice in October of last year during its local premiere, and found the filmmaker's depiction of myself and the stories published by the T-G to be a monstrous distortion, with an incredible series of blatant omissions and dishonest misrepresentations that was obviously designed only to advance the political agenda of the filmmakers and the progressive organizations that funded and supported its production.

While the filmmakers certainly have a right to express their views, in the process, I feel they have engaged in a completely unfair character assassination of both myself, the Times-Gazette, not to mention how the entire city of Shelbyville is depicted.

They have told their story. Now, I shall tell mine.

The first time I met the director of Welcome to Shelbyville, Kim Snyder, was on the public square in the fall of 2008 and it was obvious from the start that the filmmakers was planning on telling the story of our situation to promote their own agenda. She was with Catalina Nino, who did public relations for the Tennessee Immigrant and Refugee Rights Coalition (TIRRC) at the time, and another woman whose name escapes me, but who was heavily involved in the production of the film.

We spoke about the situation here regarding the Somalis and they asked if I would appear in the film. I knew I had no choice but to take part in this, otherwise, they would tell whatever story they pleased without my participation.

Apparently, they intended to do that whether I was in the movie or not.

Then the discussion turned to what I was doing at that time, which was covering the new prosecution of Edward McGee, who raped and murdered two little girls in 1966. I explained the sad case and why it was still a topic of conversation over 40 years afterwards.

But the director's friend only had one question: "Was he black?"

She said this in such excited tones that I felt like I was disappointing her by informing them that everyone involved in the horrific murder case was white.

It was obvious to me, however, that the filmmakers already had a narrative in place for their project and appeared to be let down that there would be no "To Kill a Mockingbird" parallels to work with in Shelbyville.

But, despite my misgivings about their motives, I asked the editor at the time, John Philio, for permission to be interviewed for the film and it was granted.

So, one month later, I sat down with Snyder and her crew to tell the story of what had been going on in Shelbyville with the refugees and the series of stories we ran, and the impact. I went into extreme detail about the history of the Tyson indictment from 2001, and how the community felt about the issue of immigration, as well as going into great detail the more recent Labor Day/Eid al Fitr flap, which brought us national media attention and angered many in Shelbyville and across the country.

None of these important topics made it into the film. Not even a mention.

Instead, the filmmakers decided to use a clip of dialog in which I described some of the derogatory comments made by our readers on the T-G website that mentioned the alleged hygiene of the Somalis. I clearly stated that the T-G never published these stories and statements ourselves, and that they were made by our readers but for some reason, out of the three hours of footage they shot of me, this clip is featured at the start of the film and prominently on the Internet via YouTube.

A more likely source for the hygiene statements may be a story published by the Tennessean some three weeks after the Eid al Fitr matter in August 2008. Considering the variety of topics I spoke about during the interview, the fact that Snyder singled out this single statement that, when taken out of context, frames my reporting in a unfavorable light, one might come to the conclusion that telling an honest story wasn't her intention at all.

I tried to be as objective as I could when speaking about the topic of the Somalis and was interviewed for about 90 minutes during that first session, but the line of questioning from the director soon turned to subjects such as: "isn't it great that Barack Obama was elected," since the main interview was conducted the day after the 2008 election. Snyder kept asking the question about the election, trying to frame my answers around "this historic event" that she seemed quite excited and happy about.

I replied that many seemed to be focused more on the color of the new president's skin, rather than the content of his character, but then the director asked one very telling question.

Snyder then asked me how I felt working in Bedford County, which she said was named after Nathan Bedford Forrest, founder of the KKK.

"Uh, I think you better check that....I think it was a Revolutionary War figure," I said. The county was named after Thomas Bedford

"Well, he was born near here, wasn't he?" she asked, inquiring about the neighboring Marshall County community of Chapel Hill. She appeared rather obsessed with making this link with me on camera, which she does with another participant in the first few minutes of the movie.

In fact, in an interview posted just two days ago, Snyder said that she would have like to have included more scenes focusing on Shelbyville's past racial issues such as "Beverly at a Civil War museum, some more in-depth references to the racial history in town -- particularly the burning of the town courthouse in the 1930s."

After the interview concluded, I told Snyder that I was becoming concerned that the entire story would not be told, or edited down to fit a particular agenda, but she assured me that she was approaching the topic objectively. However, at the time, I did not find her statements to be reassuring.

A few months later, the Sunday before Martin Luther King Jr. Day, they offered to act as a go between for an interview with the new Imam, and I walked into it it thinking I was going to get a good story.

Instead, the entire thing was a set up, an ambush interview, so that the local activists who appear in the film and members of the TIRRC (Welcoming Tennessee) could preach to the camera about diversity and unity, plus the Imam got to deliver a few well placed jabs at me for my reporting, which made it into the movie.

Snyder, Luci Taylor, and the other Welcoming Tennessee activists were trying to direct the questioning and it put me in a very uncomfortable position professionally. I had been instructed by my editor not to be seen promoting any point of view and they were constantly driving the whole story about the historic wrongs of the region, etc. The entire meeting was staged solely for the cameras.

I am seen in the film assuring the Imam that the story about Somalis being evicted (a major topic of the story that resulted from the meeting) would be in the next day's paper, which was totally cut out of the film. But creative editing makes it sounds like I'm talking about getting the Somali's point of view into the pages of the Times-Gazette for the first time.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Almost a year before this interview took place, I reported about the assistance the Somali Community Center of Nashville had been giving the local refugees, as well as sharing their stories about coming to America. The T-G also reported on the early Welcoming Tennessee efforts, as well as local events they sponsored.

Yet, in the film, Welcoming Tennessee is depicted as the primary catalyst in bringing about "a more welcoming community" in Shelbyville, with the claim that they arranged my 2009 meeting with the Imam to discuss my "negative" reporting for the first time.

I find that statement to be totally laughable due to the fact that the TIRRC came to city editor John Carney and myself, over a year prior with the previous Imam, asking for our help to "bridge the huge gap" between the refugees and the community.

The meeting with the activists was cordial, and they were polite, but there was a condescending tone and a presumption that some aspects of the 2007 Somali series were a problem that we somehow needed to correct. Among the participants in the meeting was David Lubell, then director of TIRRC and now executive director of Welcoming America, an Open Society Foundations grantee, which was established by investor and philanthropist George Soros.

In fact, after this meeting, I wrote in an opinion column:

The one good thing about our series of stories about the Somalis is that has gotten people to start talking about the many problems and obstacles that our new neighbors, and our community, are facing.

At least it got the attention of this advocacy group and hopefully, it will attract others who can give these folks the help they need to become more integrated with modern society.

It's just a shame it took nearly four years, a series of news articles and the raw and frequently harsh expression of the community's feelings to finally get the process started.

Does this sound like negative reporting?

Before I left the Imam's home, Snyder asked if they could come to the T-G offices the next morning to do some more shooting. I told her that I could not authorize that, also that it would be a very bad time because we had a paper to get out, our new computer network was being installed that very day and I had to write the story on the meeting with the Imam.

Yet, she and her crew showed up and were very insistent about getting footage of me around the office, even entering the printing press area without permission. At one point, publisher Hugh Jones became upset because he did not authorize them being in the building. I explained this to the director, but she seemed unconcerned.

Then, they asked for footage of me reading from the Time-Gazette archives upstairs. For example, Snyder gave direction for me to read aloud the first reports about the murder of Martin Luther King Jr. in 1968. What this had to do with the topic of Somali refugees was beyond me, but it was becoming quite painfully apparent that her motives had nothing to do with telling the truth, but instead, was focused on filming material to bolster a predetermined narrative that results in a depiction of Shelbyville as a town full of racists.

Following these two encounters, I only agreed to speak to them briefly two other times over the first two thirds of 2009, but limited my contact with them - minding what I said and how I said it. I also got the very disturbing impression that they had been observing my movements without my knowledge. Snyder had somehow become aware of a very private, off-the-record meeting I had with a group of concerned citizens about the Somalis during that time period. How they learned about this private meeting, I do not know, but the people I met with flatly refused to have anything to do with the documentary after Synder contacted them.

The filmmakers finally tried to get me to participate in footage shot at the Walking Horse Celebration in August 2009, but I smelled another set up and I was right. Luci Taylor was taking three Somali women to the horse show (an extremely unlikely occurrence otherwise) and they wanted me to be there for it. Snyder even called me at home and begged me on a Sunday to come over and be in the footage, but I refused, rather rudely, I'm afraid. I would have no part in any more staged events.

When I finally saw the completed film last October, I was flabbergasted how dishonestly I was portrayed. I nearly leapt out of my seat when I saw how Snyder had blatantly distorted the visual depiction of my original 2007 award-winning series on the Somalis. The documentary used the headline from my Feb. 17, 2009 story entitled "Islamic subversion alleged by speaker," about a former FBI terrorism expert who came to speak to Bedford County EMA personnel.

The film is edited together in such a way to make it appear that that was part of the original 2007 series on the refugees, but we printed it some 14 months later. The 2009 story never mentions the Somali refugees at all. We got a lot of attention and Internet traffic on that story because far right-wing talk radio host Michael Savage spent about an hour discussing it.

I also must point out how the filmmakers have dishonestly depicted the timeline of all the events shown in the movie. A glaring example is the Community Unity Night that you see at the end of the film where all the people featured in the documentary get together at the Fly Arts Center. However, this event took place the day before I did my main interview with the filmmakers on Nov. 8, 2008. Yet, other events shown at the beginning of the film, such as a meeting of the Rotary Club at the American Legion, was shot the very same day as the Unity Night event. A close examination of the story linked above could also lead a reasonable person to assume that the Unity Event and the Rotary Club speech was organized solely for Snyder's cameras.

The day before the main interview, during the Rotary club event you see in the beginning of the film, I had also informed Snyder about the fact I had discovered a homeless man from East Africa sleeping on the public square, and I suggested that this was one of the important issues we were dealing with here with the refugees. She appeared totally uninterested in this aspect of the story and when I brought it up in the main interview later that week, Snyder suggested that being homeless in America was perhaps better than being homeless in the country they came from.

Of course, also completely missing from the documentary was the entire history of the Eid al Fitr controversy, as well as the town's history with Tyson Foods and an explanation of the 2001 federal indictment. These are vitally important issues to understand if one wishes to have a complete grasp of the strains and culture clashes that have taken place in Shelbyville over the past decade or so, as well as the feelings about illegal immigration, yet, the filmmakers omitted every single reference to these events from the documentary. It's as if someone made a film about Japanese interment during World War II and left out the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Instead, footage of my appearance on the 700 Club, (complete with an introduction from Pat Roberson) is shown in the film. That report has also turned up in the just published book "The Terrorist Next Door: How the Government is Deceiving You About the Islamist Threat by Erick Stakelbeck, who did the CBN report in 2009.

One of my co-workers said this past week that the fact I appear in both a right-wing book and a left-wing movie this month means I must be doing my job correctly.

Throughout all of this, The Times-Gazette has stood steadfastly by my reporting and I would like to express my deepest gratitude to publisher Hugh Jones and all the editors, fellow journalists here and the readers who have supported my efforts to tell the real story of what has been happening in Shelbyville with this complex and controversial issue.

I never imagined three and a half years ago that simply telling a story honestly could lead to being demonized on national television, in a film sponsored by our own government, no less.

Comments?


Comments
Showing comments in chronological order
[Show most recent comments first]

This is exactly why I don't trust most of the so called documentary's anymore. Unfortunately, they use only the footage that supports their agenda. And many time try to create controversy when there is none. It's shameful....

Sorry to hear this happened to you.

-- Posted by espoontoon on Sat, May 21, 2011, at 9:48 PM

LOL! Are you actually complaining about a being on the receiving end of a hatchet job by someone utilizing a bigger soap-box than you? What did you expect? Karma is a powerful thing my friend, and the best way to deal with your overdue comeuppance is to learn from it.

All I came away with after reading this blog was that you still believe that you are simply a victim of circumstance, and that you only reported the news fairly and accurately. I call BS, as you (and the editorial policies of the T-G) helped drive the news. Don't get me wrong, I am not discounting the quality reporting that came from the entire issue. I just cannot forget the over the top, hate-filled, and divisive rhetoric that accompanied it.

The subversion story should never have been published at all. Those guys were (possibly) one step above avowed separatists. Anyone who advocates "stepping on" people, and then derides law enforcement as "cowardly" for following the laws that they are commissioned to enforce, is suggesting no less than their own brand of subversion. Many of the comments made by visitors should have been removed, and the propagation of unconfirmed rumors should not have been allowed without some serious investigation, as many the more credulous readers unfortunately accepted them as universal and infallible fact.

I take some comfort in the realization that you have now experienced, first-hand, how bias and misrepresentation can distort reality. Not because I wish you any distress, but because you are relatively young and have a lot of reporting years ahead of you, throughout which you might even remember what it is like to be on the other side.

I would still appreciate it if "Scoop" could cover some local politics, particularly the School Board, as we now have a new superintendent.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Sun, May 22, 2011, at 12:31 AM

First, it doesn't really surprise me that they twisted and edited your interviews. The first mistake that you made was:

"to trust the government".

They apparently came here with one objective in mind. And as soon as I noticed that they were interested in skin colors, I would have walked from the project. But instead of walking, you stayed. Which now puts you in the middle of the situation.

Anyone who makes a documentary, 90% of the time edits conversations so it seems as if they are saying something else. This is how it is always done, because they are not looking for "opinions" that go against theirs, they are looking for "words" that go along with their beliefs and motives. I learned this in my high school Telecommunications class. It's how reporters work. They don't care about the positive words, they are only looking at what is going to sell their report.

As for the readers comments, those were our opinions. They were no different than what you will see on the news channel posting boards or hear from someone's mouth. Actually the other boards get ALOT worse. Because those are not edited out or monitored. But everyone has a right to voice their opinion. And just because it offends someone, doesn't mean that the opinion is wrong, especially if a majority of people have the same opinion. It just means that something needs to be done to correct the problem. If the problem is corrected, everyone's opinions will change. Example: If Tyson started hiring more local people instead of bringing in "workers", then a majority of people would change their opinion about them.

But back to the story at hand. As long as you did not have to sign a contract to be a part of the fake-documentary, then you could have walked away at any time. This would have protected you and T-G from embarrassment.

-- Posted by PrpleHze on Sun, May 22, 2011, at 7:38 AM

I am not sure that ANY film, voice or written documentaries should be sponsored with public money or government.(being both the same)

As long as humans are involved, there will be a certain percentage of that person in the article. Editors should temper that but they are human too.

This crew seems to have done MUCH more than just let their own feelings slide into the story. They wrote the script ahead of time and manipulated your responses to match. Regrettably the most trusting and honest are often the easiest to mislead.

I used to bristle, deny and argue when folks said I was biased about something. Eventually I found comfort in my definition of biased being that I had thoughts of my own and was not afraid to express them.

Strangely, I developed this definition from being in business. Employees would say I was biased toward another employee.

At first I denied it but as I thought about it, I started to agree. They come in on time, they do their job well, they smile and work well with others, so yup, I am biased in their favor.

Likewise, I had opinions (biases) against those who did the opposite.

I digressed a little but I do regret that you got caught in this no win situation. If we try to turn the tables on people like this with similar tactics, we become them.

Instead, we work to promote the truth (minus as much of our own bias as possible) and trust that the same truth will eventually win.

-- Posted by stevemills on Sun, May 22, 2011, at 8:28 AM

Oh poor poor Brian! Boo Hoo Hoo Hoo. You must be crying tears bigger than horse turds.

Shame on you for falling for what you so well propagate yourself.

How's the shoe fit?

-- Posted by Blessed Assurance on Sun, May 22, 2011, at 10:25 AM

Thank you for the solid reporting you accomplish Brian.

I attended the screening at the High School and left shorting after the Q&A started. Sickening to see people who have been here 2, 3 or 5 years that are incapable of carrying on a basic conversation in English. Non English speaking kids in the 2nd grade were immersed in our language and doing quite well after only 3 or 4 months. That was in Mississippi.

Tennessee and Shelbyville have both become dumping grounds for Somali Federal refugees. I dont remember any vote on the issue and was never asked even my opinion on the subject prior to the dumping commencing.

To the best of my knowledge the Tennessee Department of Health still refuses to take any action concerning the rampant TB issue the Somali's bring with them. They bring it to our town, our schools and anyplace they travel.

Filth? Naww.. just dont ever get downwind and their bathing habits will never bother you.

Filth? Naww.. Ask the management of Davis Estates why Somali's are apparently no longer residing there.

Filth? Naww.. Maybe the owner of the 2 story apartment complex just north of Walmart on the west side of 231 could chime in? They gave up and are literally tearing the place down.

-- Posted by BobM on Sun, May 22, 2011, at 2:23 PM

I just wish they would learn how to drive.

-- Posted by Tim Lokey on Sun, May 22, 2011, at 8:45 PM

I just cannot forget the over the top, hate-filled, and divisive rhetoric that accompanied it.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Sun, May 22, 2011, at 12:31 AM

I find this statement ironic considering you were just as guilty of divisive rhetoric and the tone of the comments in the forums at the time as anyone else. There was lots of negativity coming from both sides during the many discussions and comments that were had during this time.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Tue, May 24, 2011, at 7:56 AM

Brian, I am sure you received a good lessson and I am convinced from your statements that I do not care to watch "Welcome to Shelbyville" as it would most likely be sickening. I have no love whatsoever for the Somalias or for Tysons for bringing them here. If everyone would do as I do, Tyson would go out of business. I run from anything with Tysons name one it. I would not use their products if they were free. I would not want to eat anything handledd by those people.

-- Posted by Poksalad on Tue, May 24, 2011, at 12:09 PM

If the film makers are taking your comments out of context to make it look like you are saying something you didn't, there should be a legal remedy available.

"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing". That means if you have been wronged and the truth has been replaced with a lie, you MUST stand for the truth or accept the consequences for living in darkness.

If as you say, "...they have engaged in a completely unfair character assassination of both myself, the Times-Gazette, not to mention how the entire city of Shelbyville is depicted." Then, there should be defense against such "assissination".

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Tue, May 24, 2011, at 12:10 PM

Now the rest of the country will see how these people come here and get anything they want and what a dump this place has become.Congratulations

-- Posted by serendipity on Tue, May 24, 2011, at 12:15 PM

I'm actually looking forward to watching it tonight, which puts me in the minority.

-- Posted by cfrich on Tue, May 24, 2011, at 12:34 PM

Poksalad, we do not purchase anything that has the word Tyson on it either. But the problem is, that unless you kill your own chickens or collect your own eggs from your chickens, then you are possibly purchasing a Tyson product. There are so many no-name brands that are the same as the brand name, but they are made cheaper.

I am also for one who will be watching the show. I am one of the people who has to "see it to believe it". I don't doubt what you are saying about the film, but it does give you knowledge of what is going around.

-- Posted by PrpleHze on Tue, May 24, 2011, at 2:17 PM

Now the rest of the country will see how these people come here and get anything they want and what a dump this place has become.Congratulations

-- Posted by serendipity on Tue, May 24, 2011, at 12:15 PM

~~~~

That is why a majority of illegals come to this state, because we are a dumping ground for them as well. We provide everyone, except for the American people, FREE food stamps, FREE healthcare, FREE place to stay, and on and on. And don't forget, anyone can get a driver's license here too, unless they changed that.

But this will be just another problem that will make this town look bad. If Mr. Mosely is so concerned about how he is viewed in this video and how they have seem to twist things around, then why don't create a documentary on your own, showing the truth that this other video is not showing?

-- Posted by PrpleHze on Tue, May 24, 2011, at 2:21 PM

This is how the State Department is describing the documentary, which they are screening tomorrow in Washington D.C.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2011/05...

-- Posted by Brian Mosely on Tue, May 24, 2011, at 3:35 PM

I hope you will take the time to list every scene and comment that is erroneously presented and address them each in sequence.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Tue, May 24, 2011, at 7:40 PM

Brian, I really hate it that you have been vicimized by the negative comments so far. I have read your articles, and have just finished watching the "documentary" on PBS. I feel that the time allotted was not nearly enough to completely cover the subject at hand. You may have jumped the gun a little and could have done a little further research, but I feel your intentions were not evil.

I understand that the Somalis are refugees from a brutal, leaderless land that does not value human life in the least. I also understand that the U.S. Government stupidly dumped people who were ill-prepared for life in the United States into one of the least-prepared parts of the country to recieved them.

The main difference between the Somalis and the Latinos who have made their homes in Shelbyville (and the rest of the United States) is not their pursuit of the American dream. It is the difference in culture and religion.

Black Americans have suffered much more than their share of abuse in the South. It shames me as a white man to see accounts of slavery, the films of the persecution the Freedom Riders and the abominations of the KKK. The thing that allowed Blacks and Whites to finally communicate was Christianity. Latinos can communicate to other Americans through Christianity. Muslims cannot communicate in this way. The Q'uran, no matter what you hear about good, American Muslims, (and yes, I have read it) does not speak of peace, unless that peace is accomplished by the death of "the infidel". We, fellow Christian Americans, ARE "the infidel".

Look at Europe. Muslims are overrunning the continent. The evidence of "home-grown" terrorists is mounting. We must wake up to this danger before it is too late, and the survellence of the FBI and CIA are overwhelmed and America becomes the land of the Sharia law in the name of political correctness and Mohammed.

God bless and keep us, and may God bless the United States of America.

-- Posted by Steve Powell on Tue, May 24, 2011, at 10:29 PM

By the way, if PBS comes to your town (in the South), and you are white and male, be sure that you will be characterized as a crazed, ingnorant, holy-roller, racist nut-job KKK member, who does not have the sense to come in out of the rain. Well, unless you were born in New York City. Unfortunately, PBS does not want to know us, nor does it want to.

-- Posted by Steve Powell on Tue, May 24, 2011, at 10:55 PM

I saw "Welcome to Shelbyville" back in October when it was shown at the Bedford County High School. The show I saw tonight was much different from that first version. A great many changes had been made. People were left out, scenes were left out and incidents were rearranged.

The version shown on Tuesday night was a less accusatory, derisive production. It still had barbs, to be sure, but many had been filed down.

Knowing the whole story behind the making of this documentary and having seen the uncut version, I find myself having some animosity towards the film maker and all the people and supporters of this film.

Shelbyville and the Times-Gazette, especially the reporter Mr. Brian Mosely was done a great disservice.

The next time a film crew is seen in town, I suggest everyone head for the hills in the opposite direction!

-- Posted by The Joker on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 4:09 AM

jaxspike, Perhaps I did offer some equally abusive commentary, but can you seriously blame me with so many people who are so willing to advance their own perverse understandings? If I remember correctly, I was quite sympathetic about your personal issues with dents, rudeness, and offended olfactory organs. I just simply did not accept that that any analogous behavior was entirely representative of every similar person you have encountered, or may encounter in the future. Likewise, I did, and currently do, suggest that every opportunity be given to attempt to understand people as they present to you, not as you (or I) would have them introduced within an ideal situation.

I stand behind everything I have written. Unfortunately, I do also realize that I may offend some very sincere local Christian people, who align themselves with parallel ideals, but are nonetheless very shortsighted in their convictions. If I were you, I would simply look at the line-up on either "side" of this debate, then judge for yourself if you are comfortable with where you stand. As for me, I will stand on the side of human decency and common courtesy, irrespective of what else I may be exposed to. You see, I understand that I cannot control other people, but I am undoubtedly in full control of myself. From what I remember about your years of previous posts, I simply cannot fathom how you can align yourself with such bigoted hatred.

Brian, Once again, the forum that you provide inexplicably draws out the fringes from the Christian Identity movement. Do you not see that allowing their idiocy to be displayed on the T-G website is tantamount to tacit support? Please, step up and do the right thing.

Aryan Graphics Designs, As if there is such a thing as pure white anyway. Your ignorance driven drivel is repulsive to me. "Non-white immigration is a sin" What??? Do you even own a Bible? We ?"equalitarians"? already experience a high crime rate (judging by the jail population), slums (judging from the standard of living around here), and "white flight" (If by "white" you mean ignorant racists). Fortunately, most of those are dying off, and their children are improving themselves through education.

Whites would not be where they are today if the people of Islam had not kept the "fire of knowledge" alive during the dark ages. You know, the period of time when Europeans were ruled by Christian theocracy.

You sir are an obvious idiot who knows less about history than you do about race. If you believe that Mexico's or Somalia's problems begin and end with their own societies, then I simply do not know what else to write. Please educate yourself before you attempt to "enlighten" the good folk here in my town with your ignorance.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 4:55 AM

Aryan, I must respectfully disagree with your points on race.

First of all, there is only one race: the human race. There may be many different cultures, ethnic groups, etc., but we are all of one race. Even the Aryan "race" comes originally from northern India. It is not a native European ethnic group. God made one race, and it seems that we have been disagreeing on who is superior ever since.

Many mathmatic, scientific, and archetectural breakthroughs came from the Muslim culture while Christian Europe was mired in the Dark Ages. All cultures have had something to offer the world.

The problem occurs when the government tries to suddenly make cultures merge before they are prepared to accept each other. We have been overrun in Texas with illegal immigrants from Mexico, but since Texas was a Spanish colony before we achieved independence, the cultures have been mixed for centuries. Our problem is with the illegal, overwhelming influence of non-English speaking Mexicans who have flowed across our borders, along with the waves coming across in New Mexico, Arizona, and California.

Back to the experience of Shelbyville, I am sure that the Christian community will band together to welcome the Somalis as people, while rejecting the damaging effects of their religion, Islam.

-- Posted by Steve Powell on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 6:39 AM

I just got up and saw the the stuff from "Aryan Graphics Designs." The post has been deleted.

-- Posted by Brian Mosely on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 7:01 AM

First, Aryan you need to go back to school and learn about history. First, if you live in the US, there are NO such things as a "pure race". We have all integrated our races with one another. If your ancestors came from England/Ireland area then most likely you were mixed with Native American and/or African American. But your comments show that, like the film, you have a one-set mind - a blind sheep if you will, that will close your eyes and believe anything and everything someone tells you. Just like all of those people who recently sold their houses and belongings because someone on a radio station claimed the world was ending.

As for the film, my children and I watched it last night and I have to say that they most definitely did not show how the Somalians act in public. They didn't show how they truly drive. Or how they act in public in the grocery store. They really didn't show anything where they were adapting to our culture. However, it showed plenty of "words" that show and claim, that we are a bunch of racist rednecks that do not like any color but white; which we found to be offensive.

Majority of the comments that were made on the comment section about the Somalians were truths and experiences - not opinions. The Somalians should have never been dropped off here. We were once a peaceful and enjoyable little town where you had very little to worry about. I have been living in Bedford County since '04 and haven't experienced anything like last year when we saw first hand the rudeness and the lack of hygiene that these people have.

Also, the filmakers claim of "Prejudice and paranoia surrounding the population of Somali immigrants" - they were only listening to the few people who were with the Somalis and well as the Somalis themselves. They didn't interview people on the street, except for the few guys at the table. Paranoia exist because their faith and culture teaches violence. Paranoia exist because we are not used to bomb-strapped people trying to blow everyone up. I am not saying the women in the film would do it, I am just making a point.

-- Posted by PrpleHze on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 7:29 AM

Brian Mosely, Thank you!! :)

-- Posted by memyselfi on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 8:52 AM

After watching the film I have to agree that it was aimed primarily at racism. I can see why Brian would be upset as well, since they point the finger directly at him and the Times Gazette.

Racism is a universal occurence affecting all races. It seems that American society in general has put a white mans' face on the term "racist". I know whites that I would consider racist, but I know more blacks that I would consider racist, and understandably so. The black race endured great injustices at the hands of whites, so, it is natural that resentment along racial lines would exist long after the injustice has been abolished. Stories passed down through the generations endure in the hearts and minds of people long after the occurence. Time wil heal all wounds if you stop picking at the scab.

The film raised more questions that it answered for me and my wife. The focus on racism obscured the issues. For example; The Somilies repeatedly said they "had no choice" about being here. Why? Were they taken from their country and brought here against their will? Why were they brought to this particular location? There is no abundance of jobs here, only Tyson? Why are so many coming here? Are there similar migration issues elswhere in the country? Where?

Tyson was repeatedly shown as their primary employer. Why are so many employed by Tyson? There was a brief mention of the clash at the unemployment office over the immigrants being brought here to get jobs that locals had been waiting in line all night for. Why was there no follow up with the locals who were being displaced? To the best of my memory, Tyson was being investigated over bringing in immigrant workers illegally. No mention of that! Why? No mention of doing exchanging Labor Day for Eid al-Fitr. Why? That was a big issue with the community!

Other issues that brougt questions to my mind was; What about the impact on our education, healthcare, welfare, police, fire department, and other infastructure? Was there any Federal assistance to support the immigrants that they sent here?

I also noticed a lack of male immigrants in the Somailian interviews. Why? Are their only females? Mostly females? Were all of these women the wives of one or two men?

As Steve pointed out above, the differences in religion are probably the largest obstacle to overcome. Muhammad's example was to kill infidels, Jesus' example was to die for infidels. The biggest difference, of course, being that Jesus arose from the dead while Muhammed remains in the grave. Religious followers are called to follow the example set before them by their leaders/prophets. To me, as a Christian, called to give my life to save others, it is frightening to see those whose calling is to take my life living next door, regardless of their color. Undoubtedly, Jesus was also distressed when those who would crucify him were at hand.

I think it was Ed Grey who said "this is the buckle of the Bible belt". If that is true, then the intentional placement of a large number of Muslims would seems to me to be an attempt to undo the buckle. If that occurs, it is just a matter of time before the pants fall down!

The state department link above described it as "global integration". So, our government, without the consent of the governed, seems to have taken it upon themselves to integrate Shelbyville and Bedford county without contacting either of them for consent or planning. No wonder their are problems!!

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 9:37 AM

I wonder what America would be like if the Native Americans had treated white people so poorly. Keep in mind that whites were not the first ones here. As far at the problems with the government giving out free food, housing, and health care, that is another issue. Any one of us that lived in a place like they have to live would be breaking our necks to get to America too. Look around Shelbyville. I see a lot of white trash living here! People that were born here with plenty of opportunity to make something of themselves and they do nothing. At least these people will work! Its just like Americans to blame all their problems on someone else. Clean up the trash in your own back yard before you complain about someone else's.

-- Posted by doe-c-doe on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 10:06 AM

One of the comments was that now the rest of the country can see what these people are like. Agreed. And from what I saw it will be a really long hard road to get them assimilated (Somalis). One thing struck me - exactly where are the other men/young men in the community? Are there none? Did they not participate in the get-togethers? And it was a clear statement at Thanksgiving how the single Somali man basically told off the women how they pretty much were beneath his touching their hand. Seems like the cultural issues are bigger than economic ones.

-- Posted by kittikare on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 11:49 AM

memyselfi . . . I have never aligned myself with such bigoted hatred nor will I ever. I can not control what others say or do and unfortunately some people truly are ignorant and will revert to racial and cultural stereotypes to promote their own ideology which I agree is wrong. With that being said though, the viewpoint I always expressed was not based on hatred or bigotry or some distorted belief in stereotypes but on daily interaction with not just one or two Somalis but several families and their friends and the problems that came with their immigration here to Shelbyville and their mass influx in moving into the apartment complex I was living in at the time. .

It is just frustrating because there are people like me who had to deal with the complications of their immigration here but when in relating actual personal experiences of what I went through, I was labeled at times as a racist or ignorant redneck which I am neither. The problem is that this documentary doesn't want to address all the real issues but just label one group as the bad guy and blame them for all the problems that exist instead of exposing the problems with each group and offering solutions to help build a bridge between the differences.

I have always stood up for what is right and for those individuals who are wronged and for minorities but I do have a problem with a group that demands me to respect them but yet gives me no respect in return. In this situation, all sides need to compromise but we are not seeing that and that is why we have such animosity occurring in situations like this.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 11:51 AM

Brian,

Thank you for the clear, concise article.

The liberal media and complicit population refuses to see what islam really is..a murderous, deceitful, anti-American cult...NOT a religion.

For this reason we must take a stand and you are a guiding light in that resistance.

-- Posted by BAN ISLAM on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 12:41 PM

Watching this documentary was the most painful story I have ever watched. I couldn't help but to talk to my TV screen, I want be the voice of those voiceless people, As a Somali brother I want tell them they are not stinky, we came from the land of punt and aromatic scent.. It was hard to listen the mayors one white and black calling us not so nice people. And independent lens I was extremely disappointed with you, you were know to be the voice of the voiceless, but during the filming you did not bother to hear the victims, you could do better with an interpreter so you could hear them, they couldn't even speak the language to defend them self. The most painful seen was watching this black women who don't have any sense of culture, wraps her arm around the Somali Imam during the thanksgiving dinner, you could tell how an comfortable he was but he could not articulate or tell her, not to touch him. he can only sum up to say, is a sin to shake hand with the other gender.

In conclusion South will always be south, and those so call religious people is better to spent their resource some where else other then to convert Somali person in to Christianity. And lets not forget the most religious people in south was unkind slave owner not long ago.

and Times Gazelle and Mosley it shows how bullies you are against those defensiveless people.

-- Posted by deeqoow on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 3:58 PM

Brian, I am Somali-American. I have seen your series articles from close to three years ago. It was my honest impression that your reporting was bias and ethno-centric. One can understand that your reporting was heavily influenced by the fact that you were part and parcel of the communities psychological background. Therefore you fail to seperate yourself from your subjects. As a professional individual I would've expect of you to have been neutral about your reporting on the issue facing the Shelbyville community.

Now it is hard for me to side with you on your grievances against this documentary because you yourself was a catalyst for hate towards the Somali refugees. I would hope that you would enlighten yourself with knowledge and see things worldly rather than from a little town's short view. I am even willing to help answer all your question regarding cultural differences and misunderstandings. I will speak to you with open mindedness. So feel free to call me at 252-515-1130. I wish you and your viewers god's righteous path.

Best Regards,

Elyas

-- Posted by Enlightenment4youBrian on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 4:15 PM

deeqoow,

Whether the Imam likes it or not, OUR culture welcomes touching and embracing. He is HERE, not in Somalia. It's his responsibility to adapt.

Sin to shake hands? Completely laughable.

-- Posted by gottago on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 6:30 PM

In conclusion South will always be south, and those so call religious people is better to spent their resource some where else other then to convert Somali person in to Christianity.

And lets not forget the most religious people in south was unkind slave owner not long ago

-- Posted by deeqoow on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 3:58 PM

There is no better place to spend resources than to bring the lost to Christ.

Lets DO forget that long ago (approx 150 yrs ago) there were unkind slave owners. Let us also forget that Muhammed killed hundreds in the name of Islam. We also need to forgive the evnts of 911, and in time, we will. Christ teaches us that those who do not forgive will not receive forgiveness. Who among us is without sin? Who has lived the perfect life? Who is that sets the example that is worthy of praise?

Let us NOT forget those who are being made slaves and murdered TODAY by repressive governments and ideologies that rob the people of the truth, their wealth, their health, and their freedom. Ideologies that promote killing of a human being simply because he is considered an infidel or the member of an opposing political party or tribe.

America has given hospitality to repressed people, such as the Somolis, with homes, jobs, healthcare, with no one trying to kill you. If you were brought here against your will, then that was wrong. If you wish to return, your wish should be honored. If you wish to remain, you should do so with the understanding that change has come to YOU and in time Shelbyville will also change for either the better or worse.

May the love of God find you at peace with your neighbor and not his judge. Whether he be of your faith, another faith, or claims no faith at all.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 7:26 PM

@Gotago...It is obvious that you ready to spill out your ignorance and shortsightedness. Only if you picked up a book or use the internet to learn a bit about the religion of Islam then would you understand if Islam teaches respect for women or not.

Just the same way that I know all Christains are not child molesters. I also know that they are not blood thirsty because of Hitler, the crusades, American slavery, and even the British emperialism that caused the death of arguably 200mill people in a Millenia.

All those I mentioned were not Muslims, but who did they profess to be? Christians. So hold your horses my friend. Your limited knowledge of history and backgrounds are so glaring. I once again encourage you to hit the books. Enlighten yourself.

-- Posted by Enlightenment4youBrian on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 7:29 PM

Two simple questions;

Did Christ teach that Christians should kill? I will answer this one as a Christian. NO!!

Did Muhammed teach that Muslims should kill? Muslim response please...

Things done in the name of..... does not mean it is done by the instruction of...

If, however, the instructions are written in the Holy book(s) then it leaves no doubt as to the truth.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 8:16 PM

This so-called "documentary" is a one-sided, biased hit piece against the people of Shelbyville.

WNPT also airs a series called "Next Door Neighbors," focusing on different ethnic groups whose populations have exploded in Nashville. They make no mention of the problems these people bring with them. I am a neighborhood watch director in Nashville, and I go on ride-alongs with the Police in the South Precinct -- I've seen the "other side" of this. God forbid you blow the whistle -- that makes you "racist"!

-- Posted by CowboyTim on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 8:28 PM

At enlightment- Think first before calling me ignorant about anything. I'm hardly ignorant about Islam and have stood with those who are attempting to build mosques in communities where opposition exists. I have no problem with those who simply want to worship as they please but I take strong issue with those who expect a native population to adapt to such alien ways. The touch was offered in friendship. Take it as such.

Further, I never mentioned whether or not Islam respects women. Is your English so poor that you missed that? I simply said that the absurd modesty and lack of touching that Islam demands is silly and has no place in our society. I would feelthe same if was some obscure Christian or Jewsih sect.

Really, if you don't like American culture, Somalia awaits. That's a winning and welcoming 'community' if ever there was one.

-- Posted by gottago on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 8:41 PM

If you or anyone else thinks that the people of Shelbyville are glad to welcome the Somalia people here ,you should go around town and take a poll.I hear everybody saying different.The documentary was just BS.I say if they want to fit in as Americans they should accept our way of life.Instead they want us to adapt to their's.Tyson is just using these people for profit and should hire Americans before they go get refugees,then claim that we won't do the work.I know people who have applied at Tyson and not hired.Also who do you think worked at those jobs since Tyson has been here as long as I remember.

A subject that didn't come up in the documentary was how the children dress to go to school.They do not have to follow the dress code.I want to know WHY.

Another problem I have is I have seen a woman steal tomatoes at Kroger by ptting them in her clothing.Is that why they like to dress like they do?If you try to report them all you can say is she was dressed in a long dress with a cloth on her head since they all dress the same.

Send them back home if they don't want to adapt to our way of life.

-- Posted by jdem on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 9:19 PM

@LiveForLight..Believe me or not Prophet Muhammad(May Peace and Blessing be Upon Him) never encourage killing any innoccent person. Islam teaches that the person who kills one person is as if he killed the whole of humanity.

Furthermore, do you know how Muslims greet one another? We are taught by Islam to greet each other "A Salaamu Alaykum", translation "May Peace be Upon you". As you and your fellow rednecks would love to insist that our religion is a violent one yet the first thing that we utter out of our mouth is related to peace. But then again one someone is hell bend on hating someone or something no persuasion will matter because their heart is over spilling with absolute hate. I do not hate you my fellow human. I do understand your religion. I admire and love Jesus because he part of my religion though you might've not known about that. Jesus is not a stranger to us my friend. He is our prophet. The Quran talks about him and his mother Marry(we know her as Maryan). As a matter of fact their is a whole chapter in the Quran dedicated to Marry. It mentions Jesus miracle birth and other important factors. Not only do we believe in Jesus, we also believe in Moses, Noah, Ibrahim, Jacob, Job, Joseph, Ismael, Isac, and many more. May Allah have mercy on all of them.

@Gottago...If your not ignorant(lacking knowledge of something) then what makes you think that we want to change the established laws of this great country? It is only your imagination and persistent manipulation of the truth that is leading to believe that we are a force for evil.

All the Somalis wanted to do was work and provide for their family and chase the American dream. Look my friend, these people have been here only 4 years the most. They are new and unaccustomed to this new culture but I assure you 10 years from now they will adapt and learn. We live and learn as humans. I do recognize that many of them need to be taught some manners but as humans we should put ourselves in other human beings shoes. For goodness sake these people have went through a terrible ordeal. Some of them lost husbands, brothers, uncles and mothers. Have mercy. You callling yourself Christians? Correct? I dont think this is what Jesus taught his followers.

-- Posted by Enlightenment4youBrian on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 9:26 PM

Enlightenment,

That's twice you took something I said and made it something different entirely. Do you read well? Or are you even actually reading my posts?

Never did I say, that Muslims want to change our 'laws'...I never even mentioned 'laws'. I also never said nor implied that Muslims were evil.

-- Posted by gottago on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 9:52 PM

@Gotago...It is obvious that you ready to spill out your ignorance and shortsightedness.

-- Posted by Enlightenment4youBrian on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 7:29 PM

As you and your fellow rednecks would love to insist that our religion is a violent one yet the first thing that we utter out of our mouth is related to peace.

-- Posted by Enlightenment4youBrian on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 9:26 PM

By your own words, I see no peace only insults to the hosts from which you claim to seek mercy and judgement, of those you think are in opposition.

..Believe me or not Prophet Muhammad(May Peace and Blessing be Upon Him) never encourage killing any innoccent person.

-- Posted by Enlightenment4youBrian on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 9:26 PM

You evaded my question. Did Muhammad teach that you should kill? You said "innoccent person". What about guilty person? Did he encourage that? Did he himself do that? Guilty of what?

Yes, I know Muhammed wrote of Jesus. Since he came after Jesus, why wouldn't he? I also know of the origins in Mecca and the Moon worship. I am also aware of Isaac and Ishmael and how Muslims view Ishmael as the rightful heir of Abraham.

The Holy Bible says about Ishmael;

Ge 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

This is what we see happening in the Muslim world just as the Bible says. In countries where Islam is dominate there is continual war and killing. We do not want it happening here. If it were peaceful there would be no need for asylum in this country. If this country becomes that way, then where will we go?

I understand your nation was, and is being, torn apart by hatred and warfare. I can sympathize with that. Ours appears to be headed in the same direction. I am not blaming you or Muslims for that. It is more because of abandoning the ways of Christ that made us proseperous that will lead to a degeneration similar to Somalia.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Wed, May 25, 2011, at 10:12 PM

Jaxspike, I hate to admit it, but I cannot find anything in your post to argue about. I looked really hard, but there was just nothing there. Sorry. Maybe next time.

Enlightenment4youBrian, LOL! gottago is neither ignorant nor shortsighted. Gottago reserves equitable portions of impatience and intolerance for everyone, with absolutely no consideration of race, sex, creed, religion, or national origin.

Liveforlight, That may be what the Bible states, but that is certainly not the reason for the political strife that is so common within the societies that you are referring to. I really like how your rationalizations come nicely packaged in a neat little box leaving you, your religion, and your government high above the fray, in a spotless ivory tower of superiority. The only problem is your distortion of reality.

If you want to understand the recent problems on the Horn of Africa, you must first understand the exceedingly complex imperialistic backdrop that has produced them, replete with ever changing loyalties and Spy vs. Spy antics that would almost be comical, if there were not so many very real people who were tragically impacted.

The most ironic part of your post asserts that you do not want problems being brought here. If you can understand that, then how can you be so unconcerned with, and seemingly oblivious to, our own export of suffering? Exactly who do you imagine supported the first modern militant jihadist madrasas? Now guess who still supports many of them, but of course, only if it is politically and economically expedient.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 4:58 AM

memyself, I certainly do not think the U.S. is spotless or some ivory tower. I do think that Christ was, but not Christians.

I am very aware and opposed to our being at war in Islamic regions. That is not Christlike at all

It is very tragic that those who would call themselves Christian pursue action that is clearly not Christlike

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 6:13 AM

Liveforlight, That may be what the Bible states, but that is certainly not the reason for the political strife that is so common within the societies that you are referring to. I really like how your rationalizations come nicely packaged in a neat little box leaving you, your religion, and your government high above the fray, in a spotless ivory tower of superiority. The only problem is your distortion of reality.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 4:58 AM

You may be correct, please post undistorted reality.

Our country is far from perfect, Christians are not perfect, Christ is perfect. Those are MY realities.

When I see other countires who are constantly at killing, they all seem to have one thing in common, Islam. They also seem to join in the idea that Israel should be destroyed. Perhaps again, that is a distorted perception of reality. Please, provide clear vision. What is the reason for the political strife in these countries?

The U.S., perhaps, is no shining ivory tower as you put it. So, what nation do you hold up and say, this is exemplary? Are there any? Where would you run to when all else fails?

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 7:34 AM

@Liveforlight - in the Congo there is a lot of killing and it has nothing to do with Islam and a lot to do with technology. The civil war in Rwanda had nothing to do with Islam.Uganda is a mess and that has nothing to do with Islam. I could go on but I'm guessing when you talk about "other countries who are constantly killing," you're really refering to Middle Eastern countries.

-- Posted by cfrich on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 8:55 AM

Good point cfrich, I am not aware of a lot of killing in other countries, only the ones who are repeatedly in the news, and yes, they are typically middle eastern.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 9:41 AM

Brian:

There is a screening of the documentary at the State Department in Washington. I wonder if you can get on the panel? I may not agree nor understand everything you have stated, but I do believe the policymakers should hear from all sides and perspectives.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2011/05...

-- Posted by Grit on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 10:47 AM

That event was two days ago and I sat on two panels about this film here in Shelbyville last year after being asked to do so by the filmmakers.

However, due to the completely dishonest way I have been portrayed on national television, I will not participate in any event they organize ever again.

-- Posted by Brian Mosely on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 11:05 AM

@Gottago...Good grief are you oblivious to your condescending remarks such as "Whether the Imam likes it or not, OUR culture welcomes touching and embracing. He is HERE, not in Somalia. It's his responsibility to adapt.

Sin to shake hands? Completely laughable".

"Really, if you don't like American culture, Somalia awaits. That's a winning and welcoming 'community' if ever there was one".

And now you claiming to be a upright person. Humm..I know your kind. In one instance you calling me to go home and in another you claiming to be the righteous one. Just pick one and stick to it.

One thing is for sure. We are here to stay and Islam will be part of the American fabric in due course. Therefore, you either just accept that fact or you will die depressed.

Also, get over the fact that these people are behaving weirdly now in this short period of time because their children are the ones you should take a look in 10 years time when they truely assimillate to the American way of life. In the meantime stop over generalizing.

@Liveforlight or should I call you the son of former Christian slave owner....Listen...I am being aggressive because if you had seen the insults showered upon my people on Brians previous article you would've been doing the same...So I should ask you this...Arent those disgusting people Christians..Im talking about those that wrote those mean and disturbing comments..Are they not the believers of the peaceful Jesus?...FYI, Islam teaches fairness, equality and Justice...No man is allow to take the life of another..It is sinful..Islam allows self-defense when ones life is at jeopardy...But nevertheless LIVEofLight, I wish you to be guided to the righteous path, I hope you save your soul from hell fire..Repent and return to your creator..

-- Posted by Enlightenment4youBrian on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 12:49 PM

@Liveforlight or should I call you the son of former Christian slave owner....Listen...I am being aggressive because if you had seen the insults showered upon my people on Brians previous article you would've been doing the same..

-- Posted by Enlightenment4youBrian on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 12:49 PM

FYI none of my family have ever owned slaves. so I am not the son of former slave owners as you insultingly posted.

You have been insulting me with virtually every post, including your last. You are right, I have not seen the insults showered on you or your people. I have not flung the first insult at you. If you think I have, please copy and post my comments so that I may repent.

If you would like for me to repost your insults again, I will.

Are the people who wrote disgusting comments Christians, you asked. I would say they are not being Christlike. I am not their judge as to their salvation, nor am I yours.

Christ taught that, "from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks", the insults you hurl at me and others bear witness to the condition of your heart. They do more damage to you than to us. I hope you will have a change of heart and cease with the inflamatory insults.

I know Muhammed killed and enslaved people., and so do you, here is just one link about his death that bears witness. http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/mo-...

I merely asked you to see if you would acknowledge the truth.

I acknowledge that many grievous things have been done by those who are called Christian, but the fact is, Christ did not do those things, nor did he instruct his followers to do those things. Muhammed, on the other hand, did. If his followers do the same, they are merely following his example.

I also wish for you to be guided to the righteous path and save your soul from hell fire. At least we have that in common.

I do repent and pray, I hope you will do the same.

Blessings to you and your people.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 1:29 PM

working at a small shop in Shelbyville I was exposed to the Samolian people. The main speaker Mohamed in this documentary is a very kind man and was always very respectful when he came in. I hate that there are people in this town and world that use the slogan " Ship them back" or "Get rid of them". Everyone is guilty of judging someone when they first approach a person of different clothing, race, color, religion, etc. It is the choice we make after that initial though to hold on to the assumption of who we think they are or if we are going to take the extra step and set aside physical differences and get to know that person. I also met a man from India who has spent many years trying to become a naturalized citizen and he came to me when he finally got all of the documents stating that he was an American. Now that he is an American Citizen some people still treat him the same, they look at him in disgust when he comes in the shop because they assume that he is illegal and stealing from the government. It truly burdens my heart that our society has become so desensitized to compassion and understanding. It also amazes me the way Tennessee is known mostly for the hospitality and manners, but when it comes to a difference in race, religion, clothing, etc we do not show and respect but instead spat on them and give them the lowest jobs and belittle them. I realize that there are language barriers between all the cultures but there is a way to work around that, it just seems like no one wants to work together and put forth the effort.

-- Posted by bingcrosby22 on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 1:48 PM

@Liveoflight...The ones that were hrling insults at me and my kind came from your Shelbyville town..Now that I recognize me and you could have a civilized dialogue I will refrain from insulting you..I also need to remind you that I am not a good Muslim and if I was I wouldve had much more patient and mercy as the religion teaches us..Same as you said those people were nt christlike and I wasnt been a Muhammad like...Your assurtion that Muhammad was a murderer could not have further from the truth my friend..I can only see that you base your knowledge of Islam from the propaganda bombarded on you by your religious authorities. Only if you knew the laws and rules of war engagement that Islam sets before its believers. War is hated in Islam, peace is treasured. Islam hates oppression more than alot of things. I suggest you seek knowledge of Islam without bias and agenda and you will see for yourself.

I will also say my god guide you to the light of truth because Islam is the truth. Remember the lord loves those who repent and seek his protection.

Once again I remind you that I respect your religion and you belong to the people of the book. May god Bless Issa(Jesus)..

-- Posted by Enlightenment4youBrian on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 2:04 PM

@enlighten, I am glad to see you seem to recognize the value of Christ teachings in refraining from insults.

He also said that we should not return evil for evil, (insult for insult). That is why I do not insult you in return.

I never said Muhammad was a murderer, I said he killed, only one word but BIG DIFFERENCE. Murder implies unjust, so who gets to judge what is just? Christ killed no one, therefore there is no judgement needed.

I am sure we have BOTH been bombarded by propaganda, as you say. Religious authorities have not told me about Muhammed, I have read for myself and prayed for truth to be revealed. I do not wish to be like Muhammed. I do wish to be like Jesus.

You say Islam is truth. Christ says he is the truth. Apparently therein lies the conflict.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I do not belong to the people of the book as you say, but rather to God.

Be blessed,

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 3:09 PM

@Liveforlight..well my friend wouldnt you be suprised if I told you that Muhammed taught us to avoid conflicts and inspire for resolutions as a matter of fact Islam is against cursing and insulting others beliefs weather it be buddhism, judaism, christianity or hinduism ..Also the following is true about Islam > ""Worship Allah and join none with Him (in worship); and do good to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, Al-Masakin (the poor), the neighbour who is near of kin, the neighbour who is a stranger, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (you meet), and those (slaves) whom your right hands possess.'' ...When it comes to racism this is what Islam said about it as well "Racism is one of the severe diseases of human society in this age. When God's Messenger was raised as a Prophet, one kind of racism, under the name of tribalism, was prevalent in Makka. The Quraysh considered themselves in particular, and Arabs in general, superior to all the other peoples of the world. God's Messenger came with the Divine Message and proclaimed that no Arab is superior over a non-Arab, and no white is superior over black [1] and superiority is by righteousness and God-fearing alone (sura al-Hujurat, 49.13). He also declared that even if an Abyssinian black Muslim were to rule over Muslims, he should be obeyed [2]".

You suggest that Muhammad killed, but who did he killed? Did he participate in Jihad? Yes he did participate in Jihad because it was self-defense. Jihad is not permissable unless as stated by the Quran that ""Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors." Qur'an, Chapter 2, verse 190...

You should be like Muhammad because Muhammad was the best of mankind. All he expressed was mankind to be kind to one another, to be gentle to one another, to worship the one god and not associate other with the lord, to not steal, not cheat, be fair and just, be righteous, and etc...In conclusion my friend, you are misguided in your source because Muhammad was about the best manners for humans....Though I will remind you again that I also wish to be like Issa(Jesus)..As well as Mosses...Also Ibrahim ..and of course Muhammad(PBUH)..

-- Posted by Enlightenment4youBrian on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 3:43 PM

7 Killed in Afghanistan Were Americans 5-24-2011.

Living proof of the wonderfully peaceful religion of peace. Over 4000 US troops have died directly at the hands of radical moslems.

Quite frankly history is a great source of information. Try 1912, General Pershing for a true solution.

-- Posted by BobM on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 6:30 PM

@Bob..If Mexico invades your homeland and you killed the Mexican are you still gona blame Muslims? Get real my friend...Why dont you try and see what Islam says about war for a true solution, this might help your darkened heart >......Islam permits fighting in self-defense, in defense of one's faith, or on the part of those whose basic rights have been violated. It lays down strict rules of combat that include prohibitions against harming civilians and against destroying crops, trees, and livestock. As Muslims see it, injustice would be triumphant in the world if good people were not prepared to fight for a righteous cause.

God says in the Qur'an: "Permission (to defend) has been granted to those who are being fought against; that they have been oppressed. Verily, God has the power to help them. Those who were unjustly expelled from their homes for no other reason than their saying: 'God is our Lord.' If God were not to repel some human beings through others, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, wherein the name of God is mentioned, would have certainly been destroyed. God will definably help those who will help Him. Verily, God is Immensely Strong, Mighty." (Qur'an 22:39-40)

War is the last resort, and is subject to the rigorous conditions laid down by the sacred law. The often misunderstood and overused term jihad literally means "struggle" and not "holy war" (a term not found anywhere in the Qur'an). Jihad, as Islamic concept, can be on a personal level - inner struggle against evil within oneself; struggle for decency and goodness on the social level; and struggle on the battlefield, if and when necessary.

.

-- Posted by Enlightenment4youBrian on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 6:46 PM

Thanks Enlightenment4- The term Jihad or Holy war, to me, is only mans way of justifying the actions of killing. Interpretation of Jihad is vague! Tell me, was 9-11 Jihad?

I am more persuaded by what one does than what he says or expresses.

Racism is wrong when it is used as a basis for elevating or suppressing other people! However, surely you realize that as humans, we all have racists tendencies. For example: If you walk into a room full of people of all races setting in various places, are you not more likely to sit near those who look like you? If I smell or look funny (as I sometimes do)are you not likely to say so to one of those sitting near?

God made the different races, each having different strengths and weaknesses. None should try to exploit the strengths or weaknesses of another against their will, that is not showing love, but contempt.

Jesus said we should Love God first and our neighbors as ourselves. He also said to love your enemy. Invasion of an enemy is not loving them. Jihad is not loving them. It is killing them.

It may be permissible for self defense to kill an enemy when he is inside your house, but Jesus said if he takes your coat give him your tunic also. So what do you think justifies taking the life of another in God's eyes?

God will judge our love in those cases. We all fail and fall short, I may not be as good of a Christian as you are a Muslim, I am no where near capable of laying down my life for you like Jesus did. He paid the price for both of our failures. The only goodness that is in me, God has placed there. I die daily so that I may live in him an he in me.

Either Jesus was the son of the living God and brought salvation to those who will accept him as he claimed, and I believe, or he was not. That is the choice we have and there is no in between.

I agree there are many in the Bible that set good examples as you said above, I may be misguided about Muhammed, I do not follow him so I don't waste time learning his doctrines. I have read parts of the Quran and have only had interaction with one Muslim who claimed he became Muslim so that he could have more than one wife.

I hope you will find peace and not be descriminated against, nor descriminate against anyone else. Those who pratice such things miss the blessings that God has in store.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 6:47 PM

Brian:

You are correct, the date of the screening was May 25.

-- Posted by Grit on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 8:31 PM

Enlightened,

HUGE difference in 'condescending' and calling Muslims 'evil'.

As a whole, I find most religious practices silly (and readily say so, often with a tone that could be described as condescending) but I never say, nor did I say in this converstion, that adherents to any particular religion are 'evil'. You conjured that yourself. In spite of that, I believe that all people have the right to worship as they please but with that right comes the understanding that adherents should never expect to impose upon their neighbors the same belief set(as Mr. Imam did when he expected his friends not to touch him) as they themselves hold. Especially, when they are in the minority.

-- Posted by gottago on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 10:30 PM

"7 Killed in Afghanistan Were Americans 5-24-2011.

Living proof of the wonderfully peaceful religion of peace. Over 4000 US troops have died directly at the hands of radical moslems."

interestingly enough, all this has happened in moslem majority countries where we are fighting as allies with some moslems, against others.

"God made the different races, each having different strengths and weaknesses."

and here i thought god made different individuals, each having different strengths and weaknesses. perhaps you could enlighten me further by listing the defining characteristics of the different races.

-- Posted by lazarus on Thu, May 26, 2011, at 11:18 PM

Liveforlight, >>"You may be correct, please post undistorted reality." "Please, provide clear vision. What is the reason for the political strife in these countries?"

What exactly are you asking me for? Any legitimate historian or student of Middle Eastern and Northern/Eastern African politics would have infinitely more information than I, and could likely relay that information much more clearly than I can. Actually, the entire enterprise may be more interesting if we allow the gentleman, with whom you are currently sharing a dialogue, to relate his own personal experiences. However, if you are asking me to spend a couple of hours typing what is readily available elsewhere, I will. If, on the other hand, you are looking for a few generally relevant realisms that your comments do not appear to take into account, I can provide several of them in a much more concise manner.

1. To suggest that the US is "at war in Islamic regions" is an understatement of immense proportions. The US has assigned itself a part to play in every Islamic conflict that I can think of in the last 40 years, be that direct or indirect, overt or covert, offensive or defensive.

2. These conflicts are not about securing our borders, promoting democracy, freeing people, overthrowing dictators, protecting human rights, or any other charitable motivation.

3. The purpose of war is (and has always been) about the protection of, or the desire for the expansion of power (particularly economic) of the wealthier classes.

4. The price of war is largely borne by the middle and lower classes. Religion and fear are regularly used by all sides as motivation to ideologically move populations to accept conditions of war.

5. No religion is any better, or worse, than its teacher. Islam is a lot like Christianity, in that the message can easily be distorted by the indoctrination of specific understandings. For example, the Bible verse you quoted earlier appears as if it could be interpreted to justify the plight of the Islamic nations who are currently at war, without any further consideration of other worldly variables. Likewise, a lack of education, coupled with intense proselytization, can lead to just about any interpretation of Islam that is desired. As I pointed out earlier, this is our cross to bear, but it must have worked well thus far, as it continues today.

>>"So, what nation do you hold up and say, this is exemplary? Are there any? Where would you run to when all else fails?"

I do not hold up any nation and say "this is exemplary". I do hold many of the ideals that this country was founded upon to be exemplary, but I see very few of them being actualized. If I imagined that you actually wanted to read what I thought, I would take the time to write it. I do not understand your last question. We live within a society that we have the ability to shape. If all else fails here, it will be our own doing.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Fri, May 27, 2011, at 4:06 AM

>>"Living proof of the wonderfully peaceful religion of peace. Over 4000 US troops have died directly at the hands of radical moslems".

My heart breaks for each and every one of them, and for their families. My heart also breaks for the 2500 civilians slaughtered in New York nearly ten years ago. That being understood, I am equally saddened by the 100,000 civilian deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan over the same period of time. This is the approximate number of innocents who were guilty only of eking out a living on the land they were born to. The ones who swore no military allegiance to anyone, yet have died directly at the hands of US and coalition forces through the use of bombs, bullets, butts of guns, and boot heels. An equally reprehensible number have died due to secondary causes, such as lack of medical care, food, or potable water. I hope this is not an indication of any religion's exclusive claim to peaceful intentions.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Fri, May 27, 2011, at 4:19 AM

What exactly are you asking me for? Any legitimate historian or student of Middle Eastern and Northern/Eastern African politics would have infinitely more information than I, and could likely relay that information much more clearly than I can

-- Posted by memyselfi on Fri, May 27, 2011, at 4:06 AM

I asked you you because you judge my view as "distorted". Obviously to be able to make that judgement you must possess undistorted reality.

_________

3. The purpose of war is (and has always been) about the protection of, or the desire for the expansion of power (particularly economic) of the wealthier classes.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Fri, May 27, 2011, at 4:06 AM

I would agree with that and sum it up in one word "MONEY".

Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon(money).

As to the scripture qouted; I agree that people use the scripture and religion to justify their actions and motivate others to action. I posted the scripture about Ishmael because my friend Enligthen4brian seemed to value historic inheritance.

_________

I do not hold up any nation and say "this is exemplary". I do hold many of the ideals that this country was founded upon to be exemplary, but I see very few of them being actualized. If I imagined that you actually wanted to read what I thought, I would take the time to write it. I do not understand your last question. We live within a society that we have the ability to shape. If all else fails here, it will be our own doing.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Fri, May 27, 2011, at 4:06 AM

EXACTLY!! The U.S. may not be a "spotless ivory tower" as you put it. Many may not hold it up as "Exemplary" but out of all the nations I have been to (which is not that many) it is the best nation on the face of the earth at this time. Maybe my reality is distorted because I am American.

I agree with you if all else fails here it WILL be our own doing. The majority of the U.S. population has always held Judeo Christian values, although we may not have lived up those values, they are still held. In times of crisis such as 9-11 we return to them.

When immigrants come here and (if)we exchange, or change, our values with theirs, then why would we expect to be any different than the rest of the nations in the world?

Perhaps my perception of reality and the value I place on Judeo Christian beliefs are also distorted. I trust in God to judge.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Fri, May 27, 2011, at 8:27 AM

>>" I asked you you because you judge my view as "distorted". Obviously to be able to make that judgement you must possess undistorted reality."

Oh okay. I understand what you are looking for now. I do not know you, but I will try my best to guess why you possess some distortions of reality.

To trust in God to judge you and your values does not excuse your responsibility to strive for an unbiased examination of what we all experience here directly "in the course of human events" any more than it does any other person of any religion or nationality.

The source of your distortions does not appear to arise directly from your religion or your government, but the way in which you internalize them. It would appear, based upon your previous comments that you hold to a rather dualistic conception of "us vs. them" reasoning, likely as a defense mechanism to counter your own insecurities and validate the supremacy of your own indoctrination. After all, if you are good and righteous (which I personally do not doubt) what does that make everyone else who is not like you?

It is only when you have no trouble accepting the fact that the actions of a few members of your religion/nationality do not represent the whole, while simultaneously neglecting to offer any such considerations to those who are not under the protection of your own biases that I accuse you of having distorted reality.

Christian values have done nothing but change and evolve throughout time, even in our short time as a nation. To assume that the God you worship cannot incorporate such changes (and people) into his design indicates to me that perhaps your vain expectations of mankind are overstated, and your faith in God too weak. Pray about that?

-- Posted by memyselfi on Fri, May 27, 2011, at 12:11 PM

@Memyselfi...I have extremely enjoyed your take on both of us, LiveforLight and I, because you are a person who's very knowledgeable and open minded. As a matter of fact I would like to use one paragraph of yours to be my facebook profile statement for a week "The price of war is largely borne by the middle and lower classes. Religion and fear are regularly used by all sides as motivation to ideologically move populations to accept conditions of war".

I just think that Mr Liveforlight is made to belief that I, as a Muslim, is heading to hell when I also belief that if he also does not adhere to my religion that he is heading straight to hell. He things his religion is the righteous one and obviously I believe mine is the actual righteous one. However, there is one difference between me and him. I have this dialogue with him without any desrespect for his believe system. I repeatedly told him that I admire Jesus(issa) and believe in Jesus. He in the other hand was indoctrinated to insult and discredit the Prophet of 1.7 billion people of the world. My friend cmes running down here with weak charges that were taking out of context to insult Prophet Muhammad. still I maintain my respect for my friend Christian religion because it is a respected religion within Islam. Islam reminds us to respect people of the book, refering to Christians and Judaism.

Btw, LiveofLight..If you want to know the situation in the Middle East I can also enlighten you in that field because I know the history of the Middle East as well as the European history and Even the North American history. Sadly a lot of Americans are ignorant of the history of these volatile places.

Just to give you an example, I would run into people that ask me where I am from and I reply that I am from Somalia. Then they would ask me where is it exactly and I would tell them right next to the state of Montana. Amazingly they take it. It has happened numerious times and these people are not less educated but pretty educated Americans.

Why do I show you that aforementioned example. The reason is that you see a lot of Americans jumping to conclusion about the people and religion of Islam without ever knowing the geography and history of these people. All they believe is what they see on the media. They rely on another man's agenda. For instance, when a solicitor knocks on your door and is trying to sell you a product do you just believe his advertisement or do you seek knowledge of the product before you buy it and it is something that you had no previous knowledge about. Well the Media is that solicitor trying to sell his product and it is up to you to make an informed choice.

-- Posted by Enlightenment4youBrian on Fri, May 27, 2011, at 1:38 PM

To trust in God to judge you and your values does not excuse your responsibility to strive for an unbiased examination of what we all experience here directly "in the course of human events" any more than it does any other person of any religion or nationality.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Fri, May 27, 2011, at 12:11 PM

Thanks memyself! I think this statement must be where I am missing it. Where does the "responsibility" you mentioned above come from?

I will admit I have biase, insecurities, and not as much faith as I would like. I do not consider myself good and righteous. I do my best and trust in Christ for my goodness and righteousness.

I can and do acknowledge, that a few Muslims doing evil does not equate to all Muslims being evil any more than it does to Christians. They may perform Jihad without being a truly devote Muslim. On the other hand, would a truly devote Muslim perform Jihad? Obviously the answer is yes since Muhammed did. If that is found as insulting, then the truth is insulting to you.

In contrast,a truly devote Christian (with far greater faith than I), will and has, laid down his life instead of taking someone elses. While those who, claim to be Christian, kill are not doing what Christ did.

I also agree with Enlighten. I believe Christ is the only way just as he said, he believes Muhammad.

My belief is based not only what has been placed in my heart, but what I read about each of these mens lives.

Christ gave life to others and took it from no one. Muhammed gave life to no one and took it from others. The example to follow for me is clear.

I began the discourse above about religion being one of the biggest obstacles to immigration for Somalis, in agreement with another post. I think that is very true, whether that view is distorted or not, the readers can judge.

Muslim dress, habits, views of what is sin and Jihad, are also distorted. Of course, I do have a Christian bias.

I also agree that the media plays a huge roll in the information I recieve from the world. I still remember the videos of Muslims dancing in the streets in celebration after 4000 of our citizens were killed on 9-11. It was unfathomable to me how any religion could celebrate the death of so many innocent men, women, and children. Jihad?

I will only ask the one question to Enligthen again, since no answer was given, and I will say no more.

Was 9-11 Jihad?

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Fri, May 27, 2011, at 3:08 PM

Enlightenment4youBrian, Thank you for your kind words. I hope you do not regret them after reading my comment back to you though. I imagine that the reason you view me as open-minded is that I have not yet responded to your comments.

The way I see it, you and Liveforlight share more similarities than differences. You were both born into human weakness and darkness, yet are now completely confident that you possess all understanding of righteousness and the realities of damnation. You both even presume to be hell's gatekeeper, as you each revel in the vanity of knowing who shall enter.

You are equally guilty of letting your pride overcome your humility before God. Fundamentalist Islam does not mix with fundamentalist Christianity, and I have little sympathy for either version of intolerance. Both religions are vulnerable to fundamentalist fanaticism, and the arrogance of the practitioners is the main cause. If either religion were as meek as some of the scriptures indicate, the Buddhists, Hindus, and atheists would have inherited this earth centuries ago.

Liveforlight, I am sorry, I thought the quote that I used afterward would have made it clear. The responsibility I was referring to comes from being a part of a social compact, or a collective of other persons within a society.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Fri, May 27, 2011, at 5:19 PM

You both even presume to be hell's gatekeeper, as you each revel in the vanity of knowing who shall enter.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Fri, May 27, 2011, at 5:19 PM

LOL I never said anyone was going to hell or implied such a thing. I am certainly no judge! Christ said he was the only way, I didn't! I happen to believe him!

I also believe in his mercy and that anyone, possibly a last second death bed conversion, can enter into heaven if Christ knows and accepts him.

None of us have righteousness that is acceptable before God, all men have failed. Again not my words, Gods!

A SOCIAL compact within "A" society? I have two primary responsibilities. 1.) Love God with all my heart mind, strength, and soul. 2.) Love my neighbor as myself. I confess I don't do a very good job, but I am trying.

Loving your neighbor covers " A Society" but my responsiblity is to God, not society. Societies judgement of me means little.

I have been told that I am not very loving before, I am not perfect, but tryng. I admit I fall short and place myself at the mercy of God.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Fri, May 27, 2011, at 8:51 PM

WOW.....Maybe we could have a new documentary......Welcome to Blogging, Shelbyville Style. Could make an interesting show.

To All -- please keep up the bickering, you all are doing a great job validating all the stereotypes you each despise.

Thanks for the entertainment!

-- Posted by Bjaj1 on Fri, May 27, 2011, at 9:34 PM

Liveforlight, Yes, a last second death bed conversion to your concept of orthodoxy can save anyone. Right?

Unfortunately, you have a fairly clear obligation as a Christian to submit to the social compact.

Bjaj1, That reminds me of a joke I heard once. Three guys, a Christian, a Muslim, and an atheist walk into a church/mosque/bar and log onto the T-G website.....never mind. It goes downhill from there anyway.

As far as the stereotypes, like Ke$ha says "We R who We R".

It may be entertaining to read, but it is even better to participate. You are not Jewish by any chance are you?

-- Posted by memyselfi on Fri, May 27, 2011, at 11:35 PM

NO, my submission is to God, not social compact.

I supposee the truth is, we all like to toot our horn or we wouldn't take the time to register. I'm glad to hear some one got something from it, if only entertainment.

I humbly ask for you forgiveness for any of my bumblings and bid all happy endings, I'm done!

Be blessed!!

,

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Fri, May 27, 2011, at 11:58 PM

1 Samuel 8:22-9:16 A gift from God

Matthew 22:21 Affirmed by Christ

Romans 13:1-6 Reaffirmed by Paul

-- Posted by memyselfi on Sat, May 28, 2011, at 8:09 AM

A Gift?

1sa 8:7 And Jehovah said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee; for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not be king over them.

1sa 8:8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, in that they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.

1sa 8:9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit thou shalt protest solemnly unto them, and shalt show them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.

1sa 8:10 And Samuel told all the words of Jehovah unto the people that asked of him a king.

1sa 8:11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: he will take your sons, and appoint them unto him, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and they shall run before his chariots;

1sa 8:12 and he will appoint them unto him for captains of thousands, and captains of fifties; and [he will set some] to plow his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and the instruments of his chariots.

1sa 8:13 And he will take your daughters to be perfumers, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.

1sa 8:14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.

1sa 8:15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.

1sa 8:16 And he will take your men-servants, and your maid-servants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.

1sa 8:17 He will take the tenth of your flocks: and ye shall be his servants.

1sa 8:18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king whom ye shall have chosen you; and Jehovah will not answer you in that day.

1sa 8:19 But the people refused to hearken unto the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay: but we will have a king over us,

1sa 8:20 that we also may be like all the nations, and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.

1sa 8:21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of Jehovah.

1sa 8:22 And Jehovah said to Samuel, Hearken unto their voice, and make them a king. And Samuel said unto the men of Israel, Go ye every man unto his city.

Mt 23:19 Ye blind: for which is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

Acts 2:28

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Sat, May 28, 2011, at 8:38 AM

@memyselfi Nope.....why do you ask? If you grew up in Shelbyville during the 70's its a good chance you know me. I grew up near the water tower on the southside and now live in ATL.

-- Posted by Bjaj1 on Sat, May 28, 2011, at 10:01 AM

UNICEF estimates that between 95-98% of Somali women have subjected to the most extreme form of FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION. That's right, just about every Somali born woman on the screen that you saw as a prepubescent girl had her clitoris and external genitalia removed without anesthesia and in filthy conditions by an untrained "Granny", with the bloody remains sewn up to ensure "purity."

Since life is too short to waste it on a faux-documentary, I 'm just wondering if any of you could tell me how that was addressed.

And as for the sanctimonious Somali upthread--how dare you say that Brian Mosely displays a small town mentality. I don't care how it gets sugar coated by progressive shills like Kim Snyder, there is an unspeakable brutality and barbarism underlying Somali culture. If we performed such a mutilation on our dogs and cats in this country, we would go to jail. YOU DO IT TO YOUR CHILDREN! And I only hope there is someone in Bedford County loooking out for little Somali girls, because if their parents think they can get away with it, they'll do it here.

-- Posted by verner on Sat, May 28, 2011, at 3:11 PM

i have lived in several countries... when i am in that country i observe their practices and culture and try to abide by that..

however. i have noticed it is not so here.

I have had several run ins with the Muslim men and women of Somolia.. most good.. every once in a while i have to remind a Muslim man i am not his chattal and do not care to be treated as they do their women.

i am not fond of some of the unsanitry practices the somalians and mexican immmigrants have such as pooping and peeing in local dressing rooms.. NOT good. Driving habits.. oh well i have faced worse with some of the Red Necks around here pulling out in front of you not looking a bit.

I do not like having to give free heathcare, stamps and welfare to groups that are taking advantage of it and making under the table money raking in much more a month than i can make in six.. THAT pisses me off. I have medical bills and other bills i try to pay off plus all the other stuff and i have to pay for BCBS.

Oh well

-- Posted by 4fabfelines on Sat, May 28, 2011, at 6:29 PM

Yes, it was undoubtedly a gift. It was certainly not a punishment or part of a covenantal obligation. My paraphrased understanding of the scripture goes something like this:

People: "Can we have a king?" God: "You want what? Yes, it is cute now, but it will soon grow up and cause a lot of problems. You have me, what do you need a king for anyway?" People: "Everybody else has one, besides we will take care of it. Please?" God: "It is a lot of responsibility for someone your age. You will have to feed it, clean up after it, and keep it out of trouble." People: "Yes, we will take care of it. We will be good." God: "Okay, okay, you may have a king. Just remember what I warned you about."

Of course, you may interpret it how you wish, but if you are depending upon the scripture that you quoted to diminish the relatively clear intent of the scripture that I pointed out; I fear that you are reaching.

Matthew 23:19 Good verse, but completely irrelevant to the topic.

Acts 2:28 What? It is strange that you chose to quote King David to make your point. Perhaps you meant to type Acts 2:13 instead? ;)

Bjaj1, LOL! I was just hoping a Jewish perspective could confuse things a little more. I would be willing to bet that I would know who you are. I may be several years younger than you though. I wasn't born until 1970, but I lived much of my life within a mile from the water tower. Shelbyville was a lot smaller back then, in more ways than one. Depending upon your age, and your proximity to the water tower, I may already know exactly who you are.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Sun, May 29, 2011, at 4:20 AM

Just how did all these Somalians happen to know about lil ol Shelbyville? The owner of Tyson's is a good friend and supporter of the Clintons. Do you suppose that had something to do with it?

-- Posted by caligal on Sun, May 29, 2011, at 5:27 PM
John Carney
That's a little far-fetched. Brian's series on the Somalis has some of the details on how they really got here.

http://www.t-g.com/story/1300124.html

@memyselfi --- born 1961, graduated 1979 - I could have shoot my BB Gun and hit the tower, even climbed it a few time. Crest Drive was home...if I recall, only a few houses on that street. I was at the intersection of Crest and June.....my dad ran paint store....that should be enough of a hint.....please keep posting as I am really enjoying the banter.

-- Posted by Bjaj1 on Sun, May 29, 2011, at 9:51 PM

Bjaj1, That was almost more than a hint, but I was mistaken with my previous guess. If memory serves, your family had moved by the time I was allowed to roam freely. (Maybe to Fairlane?)

As far as posting, I will continue as long as there is somebody to respond to. Although I have done it on many occasions in the past, I believe it is considered inappropriate to argue with oneself.

I will try to check this blog every day until Mr. Mosely writes another one, and this one falls off of the T-G home page. Some of the comments really bother me. Don't get me wrong, I really do not care what anyone else thinks; their opinions are their own, and are likely grounded in experience. It is the thought of some child stumbling across the page and believing some of what has been written and coming to begrudge the color of their own skin, the language of their parents, or their family's religion. What is worse is the likelihood of them imagining that every light skinned, English speaking, Christian person they meet feels the same way.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Tue, May 31, 2011, at 6:33 AM

memyself, your analogie is for a pet/subject, not a king/ruler. They didn't want to be ruled by God. They wanted to be worldly. Today we call it political correctness. It has taken the place of God. You can call it a gift if you like.

The acts quote was not intended. It was grabbed as part of a copy and paste. However, it is interesting that you mention king David. Look at the differences between king David and Saul.

This has nothing to do with the immigrantts though. I checked back to see if my friend enlighten4 answered the question about 9-11. He has not.

Religion is the biggest issue here for the Somalis in my opinion. The changing of labor day, not being able to shake hands, odd looking dress, etc,.

Since Islam seems to provide direct justification, even reward, for killing us, jihad, it is only natural that we be wary.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Tue, May 31, 2011, at 8:45 AM

just seen the pbs episode and let me tell ya'll i was blown away. they never said anything about the real problems in shelbyville. i moved to shelbyvile in 1990 when 231 was just a 2 lane road all the way to murfreesboro and seems like city limits was about where the legends restraunt is located now. since that time shelbyville has grown quite a bit. my grandmother worked at tysons thru the 70's and some time in the 80's she went to work at eaton. what i do remember is that when i moved there was that the mexicans had already started coming in and the imigration dept. had done a few raids at tyson and found several illegals imigrants workin there and tyson was fined a couple of times for this. someone correct me if i'm wrong. shelbyville was overrun with illeagals. and on friday (payday) western union and places that sold money orders would be full of mexicans sending their money back 2 mexico. now i cant blame anybody for taking care of their family, but when they jump a fence or however they got here come to our town and take our jobs and homes and some cases get drivers license and not put the money back in our community. i'm sorry folks but thats not looking for the american dream. its robbing america and shelbyville. however there are some mexicans that truley are looking for the american dream and in the episode on pbs mr. gonzales and his family seem to be doing really well in this country and i know there are plenty of mexicans in bedford county who are just the same as the gonzales family. they are or want to be american. now for the somalians. i wonder how its working out for the church that is trying to convert these muslims into christianity. that is not the solution. if anything it will make them more upset and defie us. we are trying to tell these people that have come from a third world country that the must be american and now you want them to be christians. they dont know our language or laws. they bring with them their culture and beliefs. its not going to be so easy. they bring their drugs and criminals as well as hard working individuals and good people. now is a good time to tell you that in 2000 i moved my family out of bedford county. we now live in east tennessee. shelbyville wasnt the same place where my wife grew up and the place i moved to in 1990. it changed. but i ask myself what the root of the change was and i will always come back to TYSON FOODs. if you grew up in shelbyville than you must know how true this is. TYSON has always been at the root of shelbyville's problem with immagrants wether its mexicans being brought in or somalians brought in. TYSON is the root of the issue. who are the next immagrants gonna be in 10 years. thats for you to find out in the future if something doesnt get done about tyson foods. is tyson doing this to other communitys in our country. the answer is NO! check it out. these problems only exist in bedford county. so stand up shelbyville and get your community leaders to do something about tyson foods. THE BOTTOM LINE is WHEN TYSON FOODS IS GONE FROM SHELBYVILLE, SO ARE THE PROBLEMS. just something to think about!!!

-- Posted by 2volsfans on Tue, May 31, 2011, at 8:07 PM

Liveforlight, Actually, I believe that our understanding of government in general has a lot to do with how we relate the refugee issue.

That is the analogy that I hoped to impart. You see, to the writers of the narrative, the king/ruler was viewed as a pet/subject of the ultimate king, and consequently, his people. I am not so sure that the desire of the people was as much about becoming worldly as it was about their survival. At the time, the Hebrew people were a weak mud-brick tribal alliance sitting in the shadows of the rich cultural heritage and great megaliths of already ancient civilizations. Even the Ark (the only tangible indication of the Hebrew people, at that time) was vulnerable. It seems to me as though the desire to adopt a monarchy was to forgo, or at least to forestall, the inevitable. What do you believe it was, if not a gift?

>>" Religion is the biggest issue here for the Somalis in my opinion. The changing of labor day, not being able to shake hands, odd looking dress, etc"

So, your concern is the perceived imposition of culture from a few hundred legally sanctioned immigrants? Well, I am certain that they know all about the imposition of culture. They have personally experienced the intrusion of western culture into their homeland through infinite variations of the most effective facilitators of imposition: merchants, soldiers, and priests. Their simple presence here does not indicate an assault upon any of your traditions, unless one of your traditions is ensuring the conformity of others. There was not a "changing of labor day" but a private contract at a small shop that sought to fulfill the represented member's wishes. I shake hands only with whom I wish, as I hope you do. I do not believe anyone is obliged to shake hands with someone that they choose not to. I won't even start on the "odd-looking dress". Have you been out lately?

What I am hoping to point out is that your biggest complaints about the Somalis are representations of the very same issues that are important to you. The freedom of religion, the ability to work toward change, the ability to wear what you want, and to show affection to whomever you choose, are basic liberties that you would certainly not want taken away from you. Why do you feel the need to impose upon another? It seems as though you have two standards, one for people like yourself, and one for all others. If that is how you feel, please explain the legal or scriptural basis for that belief.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 9:02 PM

I would call the establishment of a king for the Hebrews exactly what the Bible says it was, a rejection of God as their King.

-----------------------------

Well, I am certain that they know all about the imposition of culture. They have personally experienced the intrusion of western culture into their homeland through infinite variations of the most effective facilitators of imposition: merchants, soldiers, and priests.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 9:02 PM

EXACTLY!! That is what Islam has, rolled into one package. Besides one imposition does not justify another.

You said I feel the need to impose on others. I don't, I am not the one doing the imposing. I, and the community are the ones being imposed upon.

You have repeatedly passed judgement on me saying my views are distorted, my concepts of orthodoxy, my need to impose, double standards etc., It is quite obvious to me that you consider me beneath you and that you wish to impose your views.

In regards to religion, I do believe there is only one way. There are several scriptures that I can reference. I will post a few for you. I don't think people should be like me, or you, unless you are like Christ. The freedom OF religion we have is freedom FROM A STATE IMPOSED religion, like they have in the majority of Muslim nations where Churches, Synagouges, and temples are prohibited.

Like God and your "gift" analogy, Christianity has no provision for state imposition. Islam does! The labor day thing was seen by the community as an imposition of a minority of people on the majority to impose their will at their place of work (Tyson) based on their religion. If, as you put it a "small shop" can move to implement such a change and almost succeed, it stands to reason that an electorate backed my huge amounts of money, could prevail.

I work with several different races of people with different religions, none of them, to my knowledge, have killed any of my fellow citizens justifying it as Jihad or Holy war.

I can honestly say I have not refused to shake hands with anyone. The film made a point of talking about not shaking hands as part of their religion, and yes I have been out and seen "odd-looking dress", I also keep an eye on anyone else who is dressed in such a manner as those who are known to commit violent acts. The political correct call that profiling, I call it being aware. I also keep my eye on animals that are known to bite.

OK, That is enough, here are a few scriptures;

Ac 4:10 be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] in him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Ac 4:11 He is the stone which was set at nought of you the builders, which was made the head of the corner.

Ac 4:12 And in none other is there salvation: for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, wherein we must be saved.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Mr 9:40 For he that is not against us is for us.

Mr 9:50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost its saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace one with another.

-----------------------<

As I said before, that is why people sign up on blogs, to toot their own horn. I am done tooting mine. It seems a waste of time, possibly entertainment to others:)) you guys can honk on;)

Blessings!

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Wed, Jun 1, 2011, at 11:21 PM

LOL! For you to be done, you sure left a whole lot for me to respond to.

>>You wrote: "I would call the establishment of a king for the Hebrews exactly what the Bible says it was, a rejection of God as their King."

So God rewarded that rejection with a string of military victories and a period of relative prosperity?

>>You wrote: "Besides one imposition does not justify another. You said I feel the need to impose on others. I don't, I am not the one doing the imposing. I, and the community are the ones being imposed upon."

There is simply no comparison between the two. There is a distinct difference between existing, and imposition. No one is asking you to observe Ramadan, you wife to wear a hijab, or either of you to pray toward Mecca, only to tolerate others doing so.

>>You wrote: "You have repeatedly passed judgement on me saying my views are distorted, my concepts of orthodoxy, my need to impose, double standards etc., It is quite obvious to me that you consider me beneath you and that you wish to impose your views."

I have only pointed out what was painfully obvious to me. I am sorry if I came across as patronizing, and it is certainly not my intention to impose my views, just to make them understood, as I honestly hope to understand yours.

>>You wrote: "The freedom OF religion we have is freedom FROM A STATE IMPOSED religion, like they have in the majority of Muslim nations where Churches, Synagouges, and temples are prohibited."

Well no...not really. While we are free from a state imposed religion, we also retain the free exercise thereof. Yes, exactly like some here would ban the building of mosques?

>>You wrote: "If, as you put it a "small shop" can move to implement such a change and almost succeed, it stands to reason that an electorate backed my huge amounts of money, could prevail."

Not likely. At least not in several lifetimes, during which time, the rough edges of the immigrants will undoubtedly be smoothed out by the western world-view.

I do appreciate the scripture. I will also leave you with one.

1 Kings 5:1-17 The house of the Lord was built by foreigners (Canaanites, no less) and it was good. It was built in the exact same fashion as the temples built for Baal, yet it was still good. It is not the sharing of culture that presents a problem; it is the result of that sharing that must be examined.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 11:55 AM

@memyself;

I would like to end this because it is time consuming and more than likely, fruitless. I will rebut your statements one last time, you can have the last word if you so choose.

>>I wrote: "I would call the establishment of a king for the Hebrews exactly what the Bible says it was, a rejection of God as their King."

memyself said>>>So God rewarded that rejection with a string of military victories and a period of relative prosperity?

WOW you got me!! So you think the rejection of God was rewarded with a period of relative prosperity. Only if you consider all that happened in those days ("relative" to what?) prosperity. Israel had been doing well and growing as a nation for about 400 yrs. with judges settling the disputes and God as king. Once they rejected God, they were soon divided and fighting each other, then the Assyrians conquered them in the North, then the Babylonians conquered them, captured and enslaved them and destroyed the temple. Under God they were growing and prospering. Approx. 400 yrs after rejecting him they were utterly destroyed.

Nice gift! God only knows what blessing they would have had in those 400 yrs if they had not rejected him as king.

Where would they be today if not for "the gift" as you call it? Let's not forget the prosperity they enjoyed under Hitler. Instead, they are surrounded on every side by Muslim arabs that want to wipe them from the face of the earth.

memyself posted>>

1 Kings 5:1-17 The house of the Lord was built by foreigners (Canaanites, no less) and it was good. It was built in the exact same fashion as the temples built for Baal, yet it was still good. It is not the sharing of culture that presents a problem; it is the result of that sharing that must be examined.

I think you should just post the scripture and not SUPER IMPOSE your translation. We are all intelligent people who can read and study the sources for ourselves if they are given.

Post the scripture or source that says the temple was built as the same fashion as those for baal. It is irrelevant anyway, because the temple was destroyed.

>>I wrote: "If, as you put it a "small shop" can move to implement such a change and almost succeed, it stands to reason that an electorate backed my huge amounts of money, could prevail."

You Said>>Not likely. At least not in several lifetimes, during which time, the rough edges of the immigrants will undoubtedly be smoothed out by the western world-view.

A small percentage can have a devastating effect on our culture. Remember, it was basically one woman who had prayer removed from the classrooms in our public schools.

Mr 9:50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost its saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace one with another.

None of this has anything to do with the subject of this blog "Welcome to Shelbyville".

I apologize to Mr. Mosely for my inadvertent steering this into a religious direction. However, since our Muslim friend seems to be unwilling to answer the question "Was 9-11 jihad?" and the fact that the U.S. is still fighting mostly Muslim terrorists, I stand by my statement that their religion is one of their biggest obstacles to integration, not their race or nationality as the film would try to portray us.

Again, my apologies Mr. Mosely!

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Thu, Jun 2, 2011, at 11:14 PM

Wow, this has really gotten out of hand.

-- Posted by bingcrosby22 on Fri, Jun 3, 2011, at 9:41 AM

Yes, This is time consuming. It may be fruitless, but I guess that depends upon your motivation. I appreciate your generosity in letting me have the last word. I am not too proud to accept it.

>>You wrote" Israel had been doing well and growing as a nation for about 400 yrs. with judges settling the disputes and God as king."" Under God they were growing and prospering."

Well...no. Israel had not been doing well for about 400 years, judges had their own problems, and Israel was not even a nation.

>>You wrote" Nice gift! God only knows what blessing they would have had in those 400 yrs if they had not rejected him as king."

I do not know, but pure speculation leads me to believe they would have gained the blessing of being relegated to the footnotes of a textbook called "Lost Tribes of the Near East".

>>You wrote" Instead, they are surrounded on every side by Muslim arabs that want to wipe them from the face of the earth."

I cannot imagine why.

>>You wrote" I think you should just post the scripture and not SUPER IMPOSE your translation. We are all intelligent people who can read and study the sources for ourselves if they are given."

I have no doubt that we are all intelligent people, but I do doubt the inclination or will of the majority to read and study the sources. It has been my experience that a large percentage of Christians have no idea where Tyre or Gebal is located, much less the demography or cultic practices of their inhabitants at the beginning of the first millennium BCE.

>>You wrote" Post the scripture or source that says the temple was built as the same fashion as those for baal. It is irrelevant anyway, because the temple was destroyed."

LOL! Based upon your reaction, it must be relevant to you. What sources do you need? The remains are scattered around what was once Phoenicia. Do not feel bad though, the sacrificial temples of the Canaanites were not themselves unique either. They were all progenies of temples from the two great powers that surrounded them. Make no mistake, there was nothing spectacular about Solomon's temple, save perhaps what was to be found inside.

>>You wrote" A small percentage can have a devastating effect on our culture. Remember, it was basically one woman who had prayer removed from the classrooms in our public schools."

No, it was the first US Congress, representing the 13 states, that removed prayer from public schools.

>>You wrote" I stand by my statement that their religion is one of their biggest obstacles to integration, not their race or nationality as the film would try to portray us."

I stand by my assertion that it is the way in which you (and people like you) relate to your religion, race, and nationality that represents the biggest obstacle to their integration. Was 9/11 jihad? Probably, but most of the participants came from Saudi Arabia, and had likely never even been to Somalia. What does one have to do with the other anyway?

-- Posted by memyselfi on Sat, Jun 4, 2011, at 9:18 PM

Can I get the last two words in.........The End

-- Posted by Bjaj1 on Sun, Jun 5, 2011, at 9:11 PM

LOL Bjaj1 !!!!!

-- Posted by bbbluebird on Tue, Jun 7, 2011, at 10:10 AM

The End

-- Posted by Bjaj1 on Sat, Jun 11, 2011, at 1:14 PM

I am just glad there are people with opposing beliefs who can articulate points of view with proper grammar, as well as complete and coherent sentences. :)

Bjaj1,

With my sincerest apology, you will have to say "The End" once more :/

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Sun, Jun 12, 2011, at 9:45 AM

The End?

-- Posted by Bjaj1 on Tue, Jun 14, 2011, at 6:30 AM

Well, you can't really say this is the end. We have not heard from Unique Lies on the matter. Very surprising, not a peep. Are you out there? Let us know you are ok. I am sure that the conspiracy theory (just ribbing you a bit UL) fits in here somewhere.

-- Posted by Midnight Rider on Wed, Jun 15, 2011, at 6:10 AM

I think this blog has run out of gas?

Maybe once its hits 100 entries, we will see another hot topic.

-- Posted by Bjaj1 on Wed, Jun 15, 2011, at 7:47 PM

How many Somalian families are now living in Shelbyville - have some moved away?

-- Posted by Grit on Wed, Jun 15, 2011, at 9:50 PM

More than 10, but less than 10,000 and yes.

-- Posted by Bjaj1 on Fri, Jun 17, 2011, at 5:41 PM

i dont understand what all the fuss is about. i thought brian and shelbyville were fairly portrayed....

and that makes it an even 100, doreen.

-- Posted by lazarus on Thu, Jun 30, 2011, at 9:11 AM


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Brian Mosely is a staff writer for the Times-Gazette.
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