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Jobs should stay in America

Posted Thursday, August 23, 2007, at 8:58 AM

The caller Wenesday morning was trying to sell me a subscription to Editor & Publisher magazine, an institition among American journalists.

She spoke with a heavily accented voice in stilted phrasing that didn't sound like American English.

Her accent: Asian Indian. Her location? India, probably.

Sounds like E&P, as journalists know the magazine, is outsourcing their calls.

Just as Charter Cable locally has done in the past. Imagine, having to call the other side of the world to find out why the cable's out on your street. And just as countless American firms are doing with, probably, still more to come.

I have no quarrel with people from India, those who work there and those who now run so many of America's motels and convenience stores. But it's just not, well, American, to import jobs to foreign countries when our own people would gladly take those positions. Too many jobs at call centers, other types of "help line" positions and virtually anything not requiring an employee's physical presence are being moved overseas.

Managers claim it's more cost-effective to outsource. But what happens when Americans can't purchase products because what would have been their paychecks are sent elsewhere?

We regularly hear of plant managers and human resources personnel claiming some Americans are too lazy and unappreciative to work.

So, what's the truth? Are there jobs that go unfilled by Americans, causing them to be exported (or, in some cases, workers to be imported)? Or are managers just making excuses to hire Third World employees at abusively low pay scales?


Comments
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U GUYS ARE OUT OF MY LEAGUE

I THOUGHT THIS WAS ABOUT JOBS IN AMERICA.

-- Posted by snoopr1 on Mon, Sep 3, 2007, at 6:23 PM

In the form that it is used to treat cancer it has been combined with other widely known cancer treatments, and therfore the chemical properties of the molecule, dwindle...

I don't have to use google... Natural medicines are natural, your body can natural metabolize them, and your blood and other organs can extract their benefits without taking in all the poison like some chemicals bring about.

Since I learned that casein is used to help stick labels to foods I have drastically reduced my milk and cheese intake. Just ask Revolution, she knows.

Even if casein itself isn't glue, the very fact that it is used as an adhesive and also found in milk is sad, it's like saying... There is fermaldohyde in Diet products, oh wait, that is true. And the FDA approves it, lol.. That is the point.

I believe in jobs staying here, just like I said earlier, we just have to be willing to pay higher prices for everything...

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Wed, Aug 29, 2007, at 7:38 AM

DCA is a molecule not a chemical.. I assumed you knew that, since I thought you knew everything else..

DCA=dichloroacetate

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Wed, Aug 29, 2007, at 7:28 AM

Very well put Dr. M. Kinda sums up the whole health care debate in a couple of sentences. There is no easy answer. As we have seen in Canada,UK, France and others the strictly government model just doesn't fly in an otherwise market economy. Even in our own system, the government essentially sets prices for services through Medicare, all other carriers follow suit. Private insurers have boards of directors and shareholders who expect to see a profit. Sadly this makes private insurance too expensive for most to afford as a standalone.

-- Posted by Tim Baker on Tue, Aug 28, 2007, at 8:27 PM

darrick04 changed the subject I do believe.

anyway I have been thinking about the natural cures and his response that they have NO SIDE EFFECTS. How do they know they don't? They haven't been clinically tested. They don't know what drugs that they will have interactions to, they don't know what food they will have interactions with. There are drugs on the market that you cannot, under any circumstances have grapefruit with. How do I know that some of those "miracle cures" you talk of don't have the same interaction? You can sit here and tell me that they have no side effects, well prove it to me. and like the Doc said "NO GOOGLING"

-- Posted by James48 on Tue, Aug 28, 2007, at 8:06 PM

It is interesting how a blog about jobs in America has become a discussion about health care, the medical-industrial complex and their complex interaction. I, for one, am an altruistic pragmatist (how's that for an oxymoron!). All people should receive the best healthcare the system has to offer. But how pragmatic is that when the system is free market, for profit? These two are mutually exclusive. Where there is profit, there is greed; where there is greed, there is an imbalance of resources. How can this be reconciled? I am afraid there is no quick answer (I certainly don't have it). Excellent blog guys. Keep the comments coming. Doc Baker: very eloquent and cogent posts!

-- Posted by nmonajjem on Tue, Aug 28, 2007, at 7:43 PM

Oh and the "THREE A DAY" is the advertisement for fruits and vegetables. Get the facts straight. Oh let me guess, next we will get a long informed comment on how bad fruit and vegetables are for you now.

-- Posted by James48 on Tue, Aug 28, 2007, at 6:13 PM

darrick04:

Do you eat 100% healthy? Do you eat only foods that are 100% all natural? Do you eat cheese? Do you drink milk? I am betting that you do. So when you go 100% natural then feel free to scare the people that you talk to about all the "glue" in milk, if you will read what Mr. Baker is saying perhaps you will get a better understanding of things. You are too quick to believe everything you read while chowing down on the very foods you say are bad.

And as for a "cure" for cancer, well if you ever get cancer (heaven forbid) then you use your unfounded natural cure, I for one will head to the nearest doctor for help. As a husband of a cancer survivor, I can't thank the doctor's enough for curing her cancer. She has been cancer free for 10 years, so your theory that it only cures the symptoms not the disease is a moot point.

And yes sometimes "Lifestyle Modifications" can work in cases such as cholesterol and high blood pressure, but I sure wouldn't count on herbs and modifications to help me with cancer, heart disease, diabetes or the many countless other diseases that are out there.

Please quit trying to scare people with the "glue" in the milk thing. Milk is good for you, it has calcium in it and not to mention my cereal taste much better with milk in it instead of water.

-- Posted by James48 on Tue, Aug 28, 2007, at 6:10 PM

You are correct William, This has bought many patients additional time. I think you'd be suprised though at the length of time many patients gain. Of course, it depends on the cancer. Beware of alternative treatments though. Many have been studied in double blind studies and most don't show any benefit. However, the new fields of immunotheraphy and molecular medicine may be how we treat cancer in the future. These are REALLY cool areas.

-- Posted by Tim Baker on Tue, Aug 28, 2007, at 12:14 PM

Yes I am a doctor. I am a practicing radiologist in Huntsville. You can e-mail me at hsvraddoc@yahoo.com. However, I will not discuss specific physicians. If you have a general question as to how to proceed with a certain situation I'll try to help.

-- Posted by Tim Baker on Tue, Aug 28, 2007, at 12:07 PM

In today's world the new treatments for cancer and the drugs that help with the side effects of chemotherapy have usually bought cancer patients a few more years to live. If one buys themselves 2 years of life and during this time new advances are on the market and this buys the cancer patient 5 years and so on and so on.

I did not google this and I am not posting any links. This is something I have witnessed with my eyes.

When it comes to medical treatment one has to make these decisions about which course of treatment is best for them. Conventional treatment or alternative treatments, some of which may not be available in this country.

Great post Doc Baker!

William

-- Posted by HorseGentler on Tue, Aug 28, 2007, at 10:23 AM

Like I said, casien is not glue. It may be a component of the process, but it is not glue and is probably changed during the process.

I would challenge you that milk itself is not a cancer cause. I would submit that a higher fat diet contributes to cancer and high milk consumption may be part of that diet. So is high red meat consumption. So is fried foods. Jeeez as a southerner, I'm doomed.

DCA stands for what? It may be a treatment for cancer in the future. It also may be used as furniture polish. If I had a nickel for every chemical that "may be a treatment for cancer in the future" proposed in my lifetime I'd be writing this from the Carribean. OTW, DCA hasn't even made it to animal trials yet. Doesn't count. Next example. No Googling either.

First rule of pharmacology, ALL drugs, not most, not some, ALL drugs have side effects. With a drug, you are attempting to alter a naturally occuring process. Whether it be statins, antibiotics, antidepressants or whatever you are changing a natural (for that person) biochemical chain of events. That causes side effects.

Drug companies, doctors, nurses, x-ray techs, physical therapists, hospitals, pharmacists, EMTs, drug stores, and dozens of other entities ALL make money of sickness. So do lawyers. That's why the length of time to bring a drug to market has gone up. Liability. The governmental process was actually sped up a few years ago. Then Celebrex and Vioxx occured. That ended that.

You need to learn the difference between "cure" and "treament". There are very few true cures in medicine. There are lots of treatments. Most of the more common forms of cancer are now handled as a chronic illness instead of an acute illness. It's a disease that some people die with, not from. That's because of treatments.

One more thing. When you cite sources for medical literature, New Scientist ain't it. Try using estabished, peer reviewed journals.

-- Posted by Tim Baker on Mon, Aug 27, 2007, at 11:27 PM

THIS is why jobs don't stay here, in order to afford lovely compensations for crooked people...

http://www.actupny.org/reports/drugcosts...

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Mon, Aug 27, 2007, at 10:32 PM

Drug company profits:

-Overall profits of Fortune 500 companies declined by 53% in 2001, while the top 10 US drug makers increased profits by 32% from $28bn (20bn; 31bn) to $37bn, according to Public Citizen's analysis of the Fortune 500 data. Together the 10 drug companies in the list had the greatest return on revenues, reporting a profit of 18.5 cents for every dollar of sales, eight times higher than the median for all Fortune 500 industries, which was 2.2 cents.

-"During a year in which there was much talk of sacrifice in the national interest, drug companies increased their astounding profits by hiking prescription prices, advertising some medicines more than Nike shoes, and successfully lobbying for lucrative monopoly patent extensions. Sometimes what's best for shareholders and chief executive officers isn't what's best for all Americans, particularly senior citizens who lack insurance cover for prescription drugs."

If all that money went to R&D, then why in 6 years have we no more cures than we did then? Maybe a couple more vaccines, but those aren't cures...When you live in a nation where the most prescribed medicines are anti-depressants, you have a problem.

-The drugs industry says it needs extraordinary profits to fund risky research and development of new drugs and to absorb the high cost of drug failures in clinical trials.

-The time spent to develop a drug, not counting the months consumed by government review, has lengthened from about nine years in the 1980s to more than 11 years.

-Pharmaceutical companies are in the business of making money from people's sickness.

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Mon, Aug 27, 2007, at 10:25 PM

-In addition to being consumed in milk, casein is used in the manufacture of adhesives, binders, protective coatings, plastics (such as for knife handles and knitting needles), fabrics, food additives and many other products. It is commonly used by bodybuilders as a slow-digesting source of amino acids as opposed to the fast-digesting whey protein, and also as an extremely high source of glutamine (post-workout).

-There is a higher cancer rate in countries that consume more dairy products, specifically cheese, which has more than 10 times the casein density of milk...

-Casein has been documented to break down in the stomach to produce the peptide casomorphin, an opioid that appears to act primarily as a histamine releaser. Casomorphine is suspected by some sources to aggravate the symptoms of autism.

- A study of Charité Hospital in Berlin showed that adding milk to tea will block the normal, healthful effects that tea has in protecting against cardiovascular disease. It does this because casein from the milk binds to the molecules in tea that cause the arteries to relax, especially a catechin molecule called EGCG. One of the researchers told New Scientist magazine that "It probably also blocks tea's effect on other things, such as cancer."

-DCA is an odourless, colourless, inexpensive, relatively non-toxic, small molecule. And researchers at the University of Alberta believe it may soon be used as an effective treatment for many forms of cancer

-DCA, unlike most currently used chemotherapies, did not have any effects on normal, non-cancerous tissues.

-Another encouraging thing about DCA is that, being so small, it is easily absorbed in the body, and, after oral intake, it can reach areas in the body that other drugs cannot, making it possible to treat brain cancers, for example.

I didn't say the drug companies didn't need to make money, all organizations have to make money... But how do you make money? You keep the same people sick and don't effectively treat them, therefore they continue to buy the same product again and again. And if doctors prescribe things to patients just because patients ask for them, then that doctor shouldn't be in practice.

The patients ask for those meds because television advertisements tell them what they know.

-Something that is supposed to make you better, shouldn't cause you to get sick or have numerous side effects.

But about the jobs in America, I want them here, but most of us can not afford to buy any goods that are genuinely built and sold in this country.

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Mon, Aug 27, 2007, at 10:10 PM

Ahhhh casein is not glue. It is a phosphoprotien that naturally occurs in milk. It is the predominant allergan of milk.

BTW, most of the researchers who drug research for American drug companies are in America. True many are of foriegn origin, but many are American citizens. There are many who were born in America.

Oh and if you think that there is a single "cure" for cancer that the drug companies are holding back, I have a map of a grassy knoll in Dallas you might be interested in. The fact is, cancer is an extrodianarily complex disease. An adenocarcinoma of the colon does not behave the same as a squamous cell carcinoma of the lung, or lymphoma, or melanoma etc.

As far as the drug companies, think about it for a minute. You essentially have two ways of getting new drugs: Free market economy which drives innovation and investment or have the government take the money and all drug research. True, it's sort of a hybrid system here but the free market drives the bulk of it. Now if you would, tell me the last drug brought strictly by government research, any government.

Oh, and the reason doctors prescribe so much. Simple. Patient comes to doctor with a complaint, doctor doesn't prescribe anything just lifestyle modification. Know what the patient thinks? HE DID NOTHING FOR ME!!!

-- Posted by Tim Baker on Mon, Aug 27, 2007, at 9:57 PM

And I forgot to add, most researchers for these major companies are in Germany, Japan, and India...

When the FDA approves products such as aspartame and allows milk to be sold with CASEIN (which is GLUE) then has promotions like 'Three a day' it is no wonder everybody is sick, and who gets to treat the sick????? DOCTORS, and what do doctors prescribe MEDICINE, lots and lots and lots of MEDICINE!

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Mon, Aug 27, 2007, at 7:19 PM

I would not on my conscious withold cures for devestating diseases for the sake of money...

I understand corporations must make money, but why is that drug companies continue to post record profits? WHY? Because a lot of what they make is not a cure, it only treats the symptoms. The truth is many natural herbs have been proven to cure a variety of illnesses and help with disorders, with NO SIDE EFFECTS and NO RICH CEO on board.

The sad fact is, if a drug company can't patent a CHEMICAL then they won't sell it. Alll that synthetic, man-made BS are not meant to be in the human body. People ask why God hasn't allowed for a cure for cancer and AIDS, lol... well the simple answer is there are cures, but the drug companies won't make a dime selling them....

Think about it, how do you stay in business? You keep your customers happy or supposedly so and you attract new ones? With the billions spent in advertising drugs that are overconsumed and unproperly prescribed, it is sad that is where the money is going.

There are a few known life saving man-made drugs, but most of those were around before profit was the main objective of a company in charge of making someone better.

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Mon, Aug 27, 2007, at 7:16 PM

Darrick,

Let me assure you that I am no fan of insurance companies and it would be great if the other companies you mentioned also were not allowed to profiteer. However if that were the case, especially with the pharmeceutical companies, then all of the pharm. companies that spend millions on research & development of new drugs with no guarantee of ever recovering a dime if the research does not pan out would quit making new drugs. They would just keep making what they have already developed. Soon these drugs would be ineffective and no new or better alternatives would be available.

Now I definately agree with you that CEO's seem to be grossly overpaid, especially some of these CEO's with companies that are as you say losing money. However that is the free enterprize system and if various companies board of directors choose to pay these guys this, then I actually fault those people more than I do the indivdual receiving those outrageous salaries.

Come on admit it if someone offered you that amount of money for a job, you would take it in a heartbeat and lose no sleep at all over the suffering of those unable to afford the drugs...right or wrong?

William

-- Posted by HorseGentler on Sun, Aug 26, 2007, at 8:06 PM

Oh and another thing... There should be NO profiteering for insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, or other agencies and organizations designed specifically for helping others cover losses or get well.

I understand people need to get paid to do their jobs, but CEO's should not be given $200 million buyouts amidst lagging sales and corruption...

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Sun, Aug 26, 2007, at 5:08 PM

I agree with the last statement...

It is about saving money. It is extremely sad when companies can afford to ship all their goods and factories to China, have them made there and sent back to America and it is STILL cheaper for them.

From a business perspective, if we want to buy American made products and services from those who live here, we'll have to agree to paying higher prices for things that are already absurdly overpriced.

There is a list out there of vehicles with the most 'American made' parts, and you'd be shocked to know a Toyota tops that list.

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Sun, Aug 26, 2007, at 4:38 PM

Why do businesses not hire American? Who wants to hire someone who will fake an injury to get worker's comp? Will claim unemployment while still working? Will sue for wrongful termination/discrimination/sexual harassment at the drop of a hat? Will demand the absolute maximum pay while waiting by the time clock to punch out and go to the house full of flat screen TVs and Playstation 3s? Will, by their very employment, generate a huge outflow of dollars because of payroll taxes, unemployment/health insurance/workers comp premiums, Medicare tax? Your darn right any company with an interest in the bottom line is gonna outsource or hire illegals if they can get away with it!

-- Posted by nmonajjem on Fri, Aug 24, 2007, at 1:51 PM

Several years ago I worked for a manufacturing facility in a neighboring county. The work there was nasty, HOT and dangerous. And yes, it was very hard to find American workers to work in this environment. Trust me we tried. But because the work had to be done, we had to hire what I assume were illegal aliens. Probably 75% of the employees were illegal.

And out of this 75%, rarely did they miss a day of work, they never started trouble and were the nicest people I've ever worked with. They were SO proud to have a job and they treated it as such.

I think it's really easy for us to come down on these people for being illegal but the bottom line is that most are here because they are looking for a better life for their families.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that if you live here you should pay taxes and the other membership fees of being in America. Plus, if you're here illegally, it might be a good idea to be on your best behavior, to learn how to drive and to speak English.

-- Posted by saveit on Thu, Aug 23, 2007, at 10:24 PM

MyNeighbor wrote: A leading discount retailer likes to tout that they buy American whenever possible, but to get the prices they need to meet the consumer's demand for low prices, they go elsewhere much more than they should. You see, it all comes back to us and what __WE__ are willing to do to keep our jobs here.

MyNeighbor: That discount retailer no longer has those signs up in it's stores...the ones that say they "Buy American". I think they stopped that a few years ago.

Also besides this same retailer being a super large employer works most of it's people part time, so they don't have to give the employees health insurance and many of these employees were or are on some type of government health care program supported by guess who...the American taxpaper.

Furthermore this discount retailer is no friend to the American manufacturer. Being such a huge buyer of goods the purchasing people at this company use strong arm tactics with the manufacturers of goods. It works like this: manufacturer wants to sell their product to the retailer for X amount of dollars. Retailer purchasers tell them we will purchase your product at this amount and take it or leave it, but if the manufacturer refuses to sell to the retailer at that price, then this retailer not only does not buy that product, but if the manufacturer has any other products in the store, then those products are removed from the shelves as well.

Now I understand everyone has to compete, but to compete there needs to be a level playing field and the discount retailer is so huge anyway that it is already hard for others to compete and much more so with the way they purchase.

Of course all of this is legal and in some peoples opinions it may be right, but right or wrong the end result is going to be that more American manufacturers are going to move or outsource jobs out of the country to compete.

I no longer patronize this store, even if I have to drive to Murfreesboro or Tullahoma to have another choice.

William

-- Posted by HorseGentler on Thu, Aug 23, 2007, at 2:22 PM

It seems to me that there is only so much that we can do to keep jobs here.

The thing I have been wondering is:

Why should Americans stay in America if we can't have the jobs that are here and the ones we had, they outsourced?

I mean, if you were working and your job was outsourced, you can't work here because they bring people in with visas and use illegals.

Colleges advertising degrees in IT jobs and nursing are a joke. They'll say that people don't go to school for certain things or there aren't enough people going to school for other things, but some people are finding out to not go because they won't be hired for that job. It will just be done by someone with a visa, outsourced, or done by an illegal. They tell a lot of half-truths.

"But what happens when Americans can't purchase products because what would have been their paychecks are sent elsewhere?"

I have been saying this all along. These "CEOs and etc" would still be filthy rich even if they ran their businesses in the U.S.A. and didn't outsource them.

Example: Mattel should be trying to find out how to bring their company back to the U.S.A. instead of giving China more chances or finding another "cheap" place. Those places are cheap for a reason.

Cheap isn't really so cheap when people don't want to buy your product.

They always say that crap about jobs Americans won't do. Who are the people that were doing those jobs before they wanted cheap labor? The cost of living has gone up, so it only makes sense that wages for an American can't be like those of an illegal. Nobody mentions that illegals stay in a house or an apartment packed like farm animals. Why would anybody want an American to live that way just so they can hire them for nothing?

People wouldn't have to create as many new jobs here if they hadn't outsourced them or given them to an illegal.

The bigger question is, why are American companies against Americans? They outsource part of the jobs and the rest are handed to foreigners and illegals. Then they still expect for us to want their products and be able to afford them. They need a certain amount of money to live. Why don't Americans?

American isn't any better than other countries. They just hide it better and make bigger lies.

-- Posted by voice_for_the_people on Thu, Aug 23, 2007, at 12:02 PM

I think Dell is beginning to see the consequences of this. They pretty much outsourced all their support and customer service and I have almost pulled my hair out when I have had to call for a problem or order and dealt with someone from India who I didnt understand and they didnt understand me. Its almost to the point where I almost don't want to buy another product from them but evidently many other people have actually quit buying their products because Dell lost its top spot in the industry to HP. That is why they are now selling their products in Wal-Mart which they would have never thought of years ago. What they don't realize is that the easiest thing to improve their sales is to bring back the customer service to America and have people who actually understand the language and mannerism of the American public.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Thu, Aug 23, 2007, at 10:10 AM

I have no problem stopping support to those who hire illegals but my problem with this is how do we know which companies or farmers are hiring illegals. I find it really hard to tell the illegals from the legal immigrants it's not like these companies are going to announce they hire illegals.

In my personal opinion, companies hire illegals because it is cheap labor, that has nothing to do with American's not being willing to work.. it just has to do with American's not being willing to sell themselves short and work for less than nothing.

-- Posted by Dianatn on Thu, Aug 23, 2007, at 9:41 AM


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David Melson is a copy editor and staff writer for the Times-Gazette.