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Friday, Dec. 26, 2014

Guns in bars equal trouble

Posted Wednesday, July 15, 2009, at 11:01 AM

As of today, you can carry a gun into a bar or restaurant in Tennessee -- that is, those which don't decide on their own to ban them.

And I predict it won't take long for state legislators to regret passing that law.

Nearly every weekend I see police reports on fights in bars. And I'll admit that, in all honesty, there probably have been unseen guns on bar customers for years.

But with guns legally allowed, watch out for gunfire to start erupting. Guns, alcohol and anger don't mix well.

Meanwhile, over in the park...

Shelbyville recreation officials are wanting to ban guns from city parks and recreation facilities. That's easier said than done.

Do you set up metal detectors at park entrances? Hire additional personnel to do checks? Or simply put the law on the books and hope users comply on their ownt

The problem: Anti-gun laws won't stop criminals who might happen to commit a crime in a park. And there's a big difference between park users with suddenly-erupting anger issues (those most likely to be affected by a gun ban) and, for example, a woman who keeps a handgun in her purse for protection when walking.

I'm in Griffin Park nearly every day - without a gun -- and wouldn't feel threatened by a reasonable person with a gun carried only for self-protection.

Some laws only make things worse once passed. This may prove to be one of those laws.


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Any one that talks about guns all the time, would make me uncomfortable to have a carry permit. It is an obsession, for someone to think about having a gun on a constant basis. You carry it for protection, not for a fascination. My next door neighbor has his gun on his side when he is out in his yard at times, and out on the streets. He is a former sherrif, he and his wife are very nice, and I do feel comfortable and safe around him. I have another neighbor that has a carry permit and saids she carries her gun with her, but you would never know it because it is not something she talks about.

I have no problem with people like this with carry permits, I know they have this for one purpose "Protection Only", but the people with obsession of carrying guns, or thinking about guns, and constantly talking about having a gun, or "Constantly" saying things like get our country back, overthrowing the Govt, or "Constantly" talking about gangs, foreigners taking over. I feel have some mental or anger issues and I do not feel they are mentally stable enough to be carrying guns, or weapons of any kind.

I also wonder how often do they report that a person who was involved in a crime had a carry permit. Their are laws that prohibit to much information on CCW owners, not all information is readily available. Time will tell.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/boise/stor...

-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Mon, Jul 20, 2009, at 7:42 PM

I appreciate your opinion quietmike. However if the nutcase I mentioned actually gets the opportunity to "blow someone's brains out", the surviving family members won't consider their loved one to be nothing more than a statistic. I'm all for decent, law-abiding and sane people having conceal/carry permits, but there has to be a way by which the nutcases are not allowed.

-- Posted by Tim Lokey on Sun, Jul 19, 2009, at 11:38 AM

Look at the statistics though. Private people with carry permits are less likely to be use their weapon in the commission of a crime than are the police.

Several states have allowed guns in places that serve alcohol for several years now, and the predictions of the wild west have not happened.

-- Posted by quietmike on Fri, Jul 17, 2009, at 4:15 AM

I am in no way, shape, form or fashion, an anti gun nut. I own/collect guns myself. However I question the screening process for those who apply for conceal/carry permits. For instance, two of my co-workers recently recieved these permits. One only mentioned having gotten his on the day he received it and that was it. However the other person has brought his permit up in conversation several times a day since then. He has literally talked non-stop about it. This man is also one of the most paranoid "conspiracy theory" type people I have ever met. Recently, he even phoned the Shelbyville airport and AEDC to report the sighting of a UFO complete with laser cannon, hovering over the city of Shelbyville. (No, I'm not making this up!) This person has also openly stated several times that he can't wait for the opportunity to "blow someone's brains out", so he could experience what that might feel like. It does not take a rocket scientist to come to the conclusion that there are more just like him in our community, legally allowed to carry a loaded firearm, just living for the moment to use it. Somehow, knowing this does not make me feel any safer.

-- Posted by Tim Lokey on Fri, Jul 17, 2009, at 2:38 AM

same old story the gun grabbing idiots always try to pass off as truth to scare the sheeple already afraid of guns. blah blah blah. The absolute right to defend your self is universal weather you like it or not. I truly Hope that you will be a victom of violent crime some day so your eyes will be opened.

-- Posted by staningup69 on Thu, Jul 16, 2009, at 4:15 PM

You gun Grabbers Just don't Get the Plain Truth that the bad guy's will do what ever they damn well please regardless of what restrictions you place on the good men who carry guns. For thousands of years man kind has had the same problem with you idiots who think your idea of a utopia is the same as everyone else. remember " one mans utopia is anothers prison." so stop with the false hoods about guns if you don't know human nature.

-- Posted by staningup69 on Thu, Jul 16, 2009, at 4:07 PM

The Tn legislature passes a few more pro-freedom laws concerning guns, some that have gone unnoticed:

House Bill 46, sponsored by State Representative Joshua Evans (R-66) and State Senator Jim Tracy (R-16), prohibits the Department of Safety, or any department-approved handgun safety employee, from requiring a carry permit applicant to furnish any identifying information concerning any handgun the applicant owns or possesses. HB 46 went into effect on April 27.

House Bill 70, sponsored by State Representative Henry Fincher (D-42) and State Senator Andy Berke (D-10) removed the prohibition against using deadly force in protection of personal property. It expands the right to self-defense to include a place of business. HB 70 will take effect Wednesday, July 1.

House Bill 254, sponsored by State Representative Glen Casada (R-63) and State Senator Mark Norris (R-32), eliminate the requirement to provide a thumbprint as part of the background check process when purchasing a firearm. HB 254 will take effect Wednesday, July 1.

House Bill 390, sponsored by State Representative Henry Fincher (D-42) and State Senator Doug Jackson (D-25), allows handgun carry permit holders to possess or carry a rifle or shotgun with a loaded magazine -- provided the firearm does not have a round in the chamber -- while in a private motor vehicle. HB 390 takes effect Wednesday, July 1.

House Bill 716, sponsored by State Representative Frank Niceley (R-17) and State Senator Mae Beavers (R-17), allows any resident who has a valid handgun carry permit to possess a handgun within the boundaries of any state park. It also allows for permit holders to carry into local parks as of September 1, as long as the locality does not opt-out of the law by resolution before that date. Tennessee now joins 31 other states that allow some form of state park carry. Permit Holders can carry into Tennessee state parks as of June 12.

House Bill 962, sponsored by State Representative Curry Todd (R-95) and State Senator Doug Jackson (D-25), enables law-abiding Right-to-Carry permit holders to carry firearms for self-defense in restaurants that serve alcohol, provided the permit holder is not consuming alcohol. HB 962 passed both the House and Senate with broad bipartisan support, but Governor Bredesen vetoed the bill on May 28, disappointing more than 200,000 Tennessee Right-to-Carry permit holders. While an override of his veto needed only a simple majority vote to pass, it cleared both chambers with overwhelming, bi-partisan support. The House voted to override Governor Bredesen by a margin of 69-27, and the Senate by a margin of 21-9. HB 962 goes into effect July 14.

Senate Bill 309, sponsored by State Senator Andy Berke (D-10) and State Representative Henry Fincher (D-42), grants a shooting range that had been in operation for at least 30 years prior to December 16, 2008, the right to continue operating at the same location. This right may not be amended, restricted, or terminated due to zoning changes. SB 309 went into effect May 19.

Senate Bill 2276, sponsored by State Senator Jim Kyle (D-28) and State Representative Eddie Bass (D-65), authorize the Department of Safety to present a law enforcement officer's service weapon to the spouse or child of an officer who dies in the line of duty. SB 2276 went into effect on May 5.

This legislature is probably the best one we've had since I've been alive. Or perhaps the NRA was correct in naming obama the nation's number one gun salesman! Ha!

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jul 16, 2009, at 12:54 PM

Thanks David - reasonable and law abiding folks should be able to carry in most locations.......its the dang bad guys that could care less about laws that we need to be worried about.

-- Posted by Bjaj1 on Thu, Jul 16, 2009, at 8:28 AM

I was thinking of the park at the time because I'd heard that came up at a Park Board meeting. My statement actually would apply elsewhere.

-- Posted by David Melson on Wed, Jul 15, 2009, at 11:25 PM

David - I agree with your statement "and wouldn't feel threatened by a reasonable person with a gun carried only for self-protection".

Why do you limit this statement to the park.....why not just stand by that statement?

-- Posted by Bjaj1 on Wed, Jul 15, 2009, at 9:51 PM

I read an article on "some other news site" that mentioned that some of these establishments have been approached by their insurance companies saying they would cancel their liability insurance if they don't refuse to allow guns in their bars. This is even more of a recipe for disaster for the bar/restaurant owner if anything violent happens in their establishment. That would leave the owner wide open for negligence lawsuits for refusing to allow responsible people to defend themselves legally in their bar/restaurant.

-- Posted by Thom on Wed, Jul 15, 2009, at 7:54 PM

Of the few places I have frequented while in Shelbyville I think I was the only person who didn't have a gun either on them or in thier car and I am not talking about the dives either.

-- Posted by GlenD on Wed, Jul 15, 2009, at 7:07 PM

All this does is allow legal responsible people to carry in these establishments. Do you really think a law was enough to stop criminals/trouble makers from carrying in these places before this was passed?

-- Posted by GoTitans on Wed, Jul 15, 2009, at 2:55 PM

For carry permits you will denied if you have any history of domestic violence or any restraint or orders of protection against you.

-- Posted by cherylrichardson on Wed, Jul 15, 2009, at 12:12 PM

You can't consume alcohol if you are carrying. There's no where that is legal. Also, the wording can be confused. We weren't touting the right to carry in bars, per se. We just want to have a nice dinner at places like O'Charley's that happen to serve alcohol. That was the intent of the law, not carrying to establishments that earn their revenue solely serving alcohol.

-- Posted by cherylrichardson on Wed, Jul 15, 2009, at 12:11 PM

When you get a permit to carry, do they do more than just a background check and teach you gun safety?

Do they administer any psychological exam to see if you have a tendency for violence? That might show up in a background check, but.....

Also, as I understand it, if you carry a firearm in a place that sells alcohol, you can not consume. Is that correct?

-- Posted by stevemills on Wed, Jul 15, 2009, at 11:56 AM

None of the thirty-one shall-issue states have ever experienced an increase in crime after reforming their laws. In fact, in every case, crime dropped after this type of reform was instituted. While violent crime has dropped in most of the country over the last several years, it has consistently fallen the fastest after this type of reform.

Using data for all 3,054 U.S. counties, University of Chicago Prof. John Lott finds that for each additional year a shall-issue concealed handgun law is in effect, the rate of murder declines by 3%, robbery by over 2%, and rape by 2%.

Also, American women use guns to deter rapists 416 times a day, 12 times more often than rapists use guns.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Wed, Jul 15, 2009, at 11:50 AM


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David Melson is a copy editor and staff writer for the Times-Gazette.