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Friday, Oct. 24, 2014

Wilson's unnecessary yell

Posted Thursday, September 10, 2009, at 10:58 AM

It's too bad we had to hear a member of Congress shout at the president to prove a point, but maybe America is realizing that angry confrontations aren't going to bring positive change -- no matter which side you take politically.

Rep. Joe Wilson (R-S.C.) yelled, "You lie" at President Obama after the president said in his speech to Congress that illegal immigrants wouldn't benefit from his health care proposals.

"Obviously, the President of the United States is always welcome on Capitol Hill. He deserves respect and decorum," House Minority Whip Eric Cantor told ABC News.

Wilson has apologized. So let's shift the focus away from Wilson and toward those other Americans who spent their summer disrupting Democrats' town meetings and joining the usual hate-filled talk radio rants.

Being upset with proposals which would affect health care availability and costs is understandable. But yelling threats or insults often has the opposite effect from what the ranter desires. Wilson proved it last night.

It's time for Republicans and Democrats to stop posturing and get on toward needed health care reform based on what's best for the people, not for individual contributors, special interest groups, stockholders or political parties. As if that's actually going to happen...


Comments
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Problem is the MSM media won't report the truth. Silence can sometimes be interpreted as consent. Americans are fed up with being robbed to pay for schemes that history proves have no chance of success.

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 11:03 AM

Joe Wilson is a national disgrace not only to his electorate, the state of South Carolina and Congress but to our Nation as well. One would expect this kind of behavior and lack of professionalism from a thrid world county, not the US. He needed to apologize and I give him credit for doing so. From now on reasonable thinking citizens will question his judgement and credibility.

-- Posted by chs61 on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 11:26 AM

Read Carl McClanahan's blog, if you want real rancor.

-- Posted by Grit on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 12:00 PM

Sometimes though it is good and refreshing to see someone call a spade a spade.

I wish more of our "paid" representatives would speak up for us.

-- Posted by Blessed Assurance on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 12:16 PM

While the bill states that illegal immigrants are not eligible for the new taxpayer-funded affordability credits, there is nothing in the bill to enforce this provision. Congress defeated efforts to require the use of the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) program. More than 70 other programs of this kind use SAVE.

The report is available at http://www.cis.org/IllegalsAndHealthCare.... Among the findings:

* In 2007, there were an estimated 6.6 million illegal immigrants without health insurance who had incomes below 400 percent of poverty, which is the income ceiling for the new affordability premium credits.

* If all uninsured illegal immigrants with incomes below 400 percent of poverty received the new credits, the estimated cost to the federal government would be $30.5 billion annually.

* The current cost of treating uninsured illegal immigrants at all levels of government is an estimated $4.3 billion a year, primarily at emergency rooms and free clinics.

Now why on earth would we spend 30.5 BILLION dollars to take care of a 4.3 billion dollar problem.

God gave everyone two ears and only one mouth for a reason, maybe its time for the President to shut up and listen for a while.

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 12:43 PM

Personally, I think it's great that someone is finally standing up and letting people know how they feel. The main-stream media refuses to air anything derogatory about President Obama or his administration and vilifies anyone that does. This Congressman had the gumption to stand up and say how he feels with EVERYONE listening so that they couldn't keep what he had to say from the public.

But, like David said, "let's shift the focus away from Wilson and toward those other Americans who spent their summer disrupting Democrats' town meetings and joining the usual hate-filled talk radio rants."

First off, I love that you chose to refer to people protesting as "disrupting Democrats' town meetings". They are OUR town meetings, David, they're not just for the Democrats. These people are expressing their opinions, openly and freely, as is a RIGHT of ours granted by the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. I believe you had a blog entry about that 1st Amendment RIGHT previously (Free speech goes up in smoke?), maybe you should go back and read that one.

Remember, the 1st Amendment covers not only free speech, but freedom of the press, freedom of religion, freedom to peaceably assemble, and the right to petition the government. If you strip away part of this Amendment, you strip away the protections of not only this Amendment, but all of them.

-- Posted by Thom on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 12:53 PM

cry me a river dry!

-- Posted by reader_2 on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 1:10 PM

I agree that one should be passionate in his/her beliefs and stand up on principals. It IS time someone spoke the truth. However, there is a time and place for everything...this was neither. It weakens us in the eyes of our enemies to show that we are a country divided...from within.

My first reaction when seeing the clip was "H-ll yeah!" But I immediately realised that all Rep. Joe Wilson proved was that too many in our country no longer stand behind their leader. A new poll shows Barack Obama is experiencing the greatest partisan divide in modern history*.

The US Cival War pinned brother against brother, and I think we're seing that now with Right against Left. As a candidate, Obama promised to bridge the partisan divide by reaching across the aisle. But since the election, Democrats and Republicans seem to be moving farther and farther apart. Joe Wilson has shown us just how divided we've become.

* SOURCE:

http://thebulletin.us/articles/2009/04/0...

-- Posted by shawna.jones on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 1:15 PM

obama says talk radio was lying about his healthcare plan. Republicans were lying. The congressional budget office was lying. Bloggers were lying. Economists were lying. Think tanks were lying.

Yet all we hear from the media is how rude it is for one man to say the messiah...oops obama was lying.

But there's no media bias.

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 1:41 PM

No matter how you feel about the president's policies it was disrespectful and childish. A small pocket in the south may think it was a great thing to do, but I believe a large portion of the country would agree with me. Did the GOP not learn anything from November 2008?

"The main-stream media refuses to air anything derogatory about President Obama or his administration and vilifies anyone that does."

That's the biggest load of crap I've ever seen. Have you ever heard of a little network called Fox News?

-- Posted by GoTitans on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 1:45 PM

Thom

I think when David said disrupting Democrats' town meetings" he meant the Democrats that were holding the meetings and not that the meeting was only for democrats.

-- Posted by GoTitans on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 1:50 PM

Back in 2005 Harry Reid called Bush a liar and a loser when Vice President Cheney said he agreed with Senate Republicans about changing the filibuster rule. He apologized but not much was said about it.

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 2:10 PM

You should watch the British Parliment sometimes. Thye really get going on each other. Wish we had that here.

-- Posted by Chef Boy R.D. on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 3:53 PM

I agree, we SHOULD have people in office that have some passion for what they're supposed to be doing. Rather than just drawing a paycheck.

-- Posted by Thom on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 7:39 PM

Too bad the guy was wrong... and that is what he hasn't apologized for.

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 9:10 PM

Too bad the guy was wrong... and that is what he hasn't apologized for.

-- Posted by darrick_04

He wasn't wrong. obama lies all the time, just think back to some of his campaign promises.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 9:23 PM

So, what part of any actual proposed bill allows illegal immigrants to be covered by a public option? Talk about changing the subject.

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 9:36 PM

Technically he just told obama "you lie" which isn't wrong.

If the dems didn't want illegals to get obmamacare, why did they vote down Dean Heller's amendment that would have required hospitals to use SAVE (Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements) to prevent illegals from getting free care?

There is nothing in the bill requiring a patient to verify his citizenship before receiving care.

But in truth, since obama supports amnesty for illegals they won't be illegal long if he gets his way.

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 9:48 PM

... yet another colossal waste of time. Remember when the Dixie Chicks spoke down about Bush? Who were the first people to trying to ruin their careers??? Conservatives. Remember when Pelosi said the CIA lied... who were the first people to stage a protest? Conservatives. Now suddenly, it is the patriotic thing to do (and a 1st amendment protection), because the person who it is being directed at, has changed.

House Bill 3200, Section 246 under "No Federal Payment for Undocumented Aliens" explicitly states that they CAN NOT RECEIVE coverage... End of discussion. You can mislead the gullible but fortunately they have a recent track record of losing elections.

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 9:57 PM

What part of the bill tells how patients are to be verified whether they are legal or not?

We're going to take them at their word?

Writing a rule with no possible way to enforce it is typical for a democrat.

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 10:01 PM

If you believe hospital E.R.s will turn away injured illegals because obama says so, the gullible title belongs somewhere else.

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 10:05 PM

How do private companies ensure each person is "legal"? The government program would only enhance those measures... or maybe we need national I.D. cards to ensure legality status ? I think that is what the Conservatives have suggested.

Hospitals do not turn away injured illegals today... emergency situations are not treated the same as preventative or outpatient care.

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 10:10 PM

Did you have an answer in there or was it just bluster?

If obamacare is passed and illegals, who don't have insurance, go to the E.R. for treatment, won't obamacare pick up the tab?

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 10:15 PM

Yawn...

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 10:18 PM

Didn't think so...

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 10:20 PM

If obamacare is passed and illegals, who don't have insurance, go to the E.R. for treatment, won't obamacare pick up the tab?

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 10:15 PM

Who is picking it up now?

-- Posted by Dianatn on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 11:29 PM

Not the point. Obama claimed his bill wouldn't cover illegals. Now you guys are saying it doesn't matter because they are being covered already.

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 11:50 PM

Actually that is the point. As long as illegal aliens can walk around our nation without fear of the law, they will almost always be treated in our emergency rooms on our dime. We lose either way.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 12:42 AM

Not the point. Obama claimed his bill wouldn't cover illegals. Now you guys are saying it doesn't matter because they are being covered already.

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 11:50 PM

Did I say it didn't matter? I am against my tax dollars being used for illegals or refugees.. it does matter to me. But the point I was making was we have been paying for this service for quite some time not just with "Obamacare".

I have always looked at the illegals and refugees on both sides.. our government is allowing them to be here to live among us to send their children to school with our children.. do I approve? No I don't.. Do I blame them for this? No I don't ,I blame our stupid government for this and not just this Democrats but the Republicans are responsible for this also..

Regardless if I approve or not they are going to keep coming into the United States and they are going to continue to live among us and our children. So even though I do not like my taxes supporting their healthcare I do not want whatever diseases they bring with them either.

-- Posted by Dianatn on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 12:55 AM

As long as illegal aliens can walk around our nation without fear of the law, they will almost always be treated in our emergency rooms on our dime. We lose either way.

-- Posted by nathan.evans

Agreed! That is another fine example of government ineptitude, and is why they should NOT have a hand in health care (any more than they do already).

-- Posted by quietmike on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 1:13 AM

. But the point I was making was we have been paying for this service for quite some time not just with "Obamacare".

-- Posted by Dianatn

True. But obama said they wouldn't be covered under his plan, and as we all can see they will be. So, why was it so bad for Wilson to yell liar to someone who was lying?

-- Posted by quietmike on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 1:17 AM

I am sorry folks but all politicians lie to one agree or another . . . how do you think they got elected? Oh yes, even Obama has lied on several occasions and has stretched the truth and to suggest he hasn't just goes to prove how naive or insanely ignorant you really are. Did Bush lie . . . of course and so did Clinton (can I saw Monica Lewinsky) and so did Nixon and every other president.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 7:45 AM

Jax, your vote for anarchy has been noted.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 9:31 AM

So common sense and practicality is anarchy?

Wow, I must really say you have fallen over the edge with that comment and you really are as stupid as you sound. Thanks for clarifying because I had given you the benefit of the doubt lately.

Your vote for socialism has been dully noted. See how stupid that sounds? Glad to see any form of dialogue with you is pointless since you revert to childish name calling and pointless tactics.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 10:01 AM

Actually you are the one that's been acting strangely over the last few months. Lighten up a little.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 11:01 AM

It was wrong to disrupt the Presidents speech, especially in a Joint Session of Congress. However, in the context of a Town Hall Meeting, just about anything short of physical violence is OK. This Country was founded and our Constitution was drafted amid some very real and in some cases documented shouting matches. Just watch the History Channel sometime.

-- Posted by MyMrMarty on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 12:00 PM

Obama won't do a town hall meeting unless it it is with preselected audience members.

-- Posted by quietmike on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 12:07 PM

Obama won't do a town hall meeting unless it it is with preselected audience members.

-- Posted by quietmike on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 12:07 PM

I think you meant to say George W. Bush.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 1:01 PM

Nope. Only a few months into his term obama's use of his supporters as "props" is amazing.

http://www.lonelyconservative.com/2009/0...

http://anotherblackconservative.blogspot...

http://michellemalkin.com/2009/08/12/the...

-- Posted by quietmike on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 1:14 PM

Look at the people that back the President. Charles Rangle heads the tax writing committee, yet he does not report more than a million dollars in income. Geitner, head of the treasury dept., didn't pay taxes on income until appointed. I don't think either paid any penalties, just back taxes, sweet deal if you can get it. Obama just fits in with the rest of the misfits that have been elected. Every single member of congress needs to be replaced. If you think your Senator or Representative should stay, then you are part of the problem

-- Posted by Jigs on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 5:30 PM

Representative Joe Wilson did show a lack of respect for the office of the "President", he did demonstrate to his constituants that he has a pair of balls. Now that's something that has been missing in Washington for a long time. Maybe that's why his supporters have poured over $300,000 into his campaign coffers in just two days. The American conservative has apparently been aroused from his lethargy and is ready to take notice when someone actually demonstrates the courage of his convictions. I agree with other bloggers. If you think this inexperienced socialist fruitcake hasn't lied to the American people, you're about one wave short of a shipwreck.

-- Posted by Tim Lokey on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 6:51 PM

Maybe that's why his supporters have poured over $300,000 into his campaign coffers in just two days. The American conservative has apparently been aroused from his lethargy and is ready to take notice when someone actually demonstrates the courage of his convictions.

-- Posted by Tattoos & Scars on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 6:51 PM

If you think that is success, then I guess you haven't read this "Support is stilling pouring for Wilson's Democratic opponent. Since Obama's health care address Wednesday night, the campaign coffers of Rob Miller, who is challenging him in 2010, swelled by $750,000 by Friday morning, according to Jessica Santillo of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee...Not that it makes a hill of beans, but you pointed it out.

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 7:32 PM

Love you source Darrick. That is certainly above reproach.

-- Posted by cmcclanahan on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 8:23 PM

I'm sure you love Tattoos & Scars source as well...

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 9:37 PM

What part of the bill tells how patients are to be verified whether they are legal or not?

We're going to take them at their word?

Writing a rule with no possible way to enforce it is typical for a democrat.

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 10:01 PM

When a medical record is filled out on a patient, the patient has to put down a Social Security #. This is given to all Americans born in the United States of America. This is considered their Personal ID. If a patient does not have it, then they are not a Legal Citizen.

-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 9:47 PM

Did you have an answer in there or was it just bluster?

If obamacare is passed and illegals, who don't have insurance, go to the E.R. for treatment, won't obamacare pick up the tab?

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 10:15 PM

At one time I did not have insurance for me and my children, it was during a transition of jobs. When going to an ER, or a medical physician, you have to fill out a form saying "YOU" are responsible for the bill whether your insurance pays or not. When you do not have insurance you pay so much on the bill, and then so much a month until the bill is paid for. At one time they had something called a sliding scale, based on your income; don't know if that still exist or not. But just as long as you are paying something on it until it is paid off.

Some physicians can deny taking new patients, I even had one of my children dropped as a patient because he had not been seen in over a year; his insurance provider was different than his last visit and they did not take the insurance he was on anymore. The other child she had to keep as a patient because she had been seen with-in a years time.

But Emergency rooms (Can Not Refuse a Patient regardless of wether they have insurance or not). But they do not have to give the same type of care they would for a patient that is covered on insurance. All they have to do is get them on the path of wellness, or stitched up, and send them home. If they have to stay in hospital the days are limited to a point as well. The patient will be billed each month until the bill is paid.

-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 10:19 PM

Members of the British Parliament may (and probably should) heckle the British Prime Minister because the Prime Minister is only the head of government, and both Prime Minister and Parliament are within undiffereniated branches of the British government which has no written Constitution (except Magna Carta maybe). In America, the situation is quite different: there are three distinct branches established by the written U.S. Constitution and each branch is bound to show respect for the other two. When a member of Congress heckles a President, the Member is showing profound disrespect for a co-equal, but completely separate, branch of government and is insulting a head of state (which in Britain would be Queen Elizabeth)as well as a head of government. Congressman Wilson of South Carolina has therefore affronted the separation of powers carefully crafted by the U.S. Constitution and injured not only the Federal government but his constituents in South Carolina, every American and himself and should be sorry for his heckling of President Obama at that time and in that place. What Wilson does outside of the chambers of the U. S. House or on the campaign trail is of course another matter. Our nation is not England or Egypt or Estonia or anywhere else and never will be. Respect for the President by every Congress-person in the chamber of the U. S. House is not optional under these circumstances; it is required.

-- Posted by zzoop on Fri, Sep 11, 2009, at 11:16 PM

Pardon me if I'm wrong but didn't the Democrats BOO President Bush during a 2005 State of the Union Address? I don't recall any of them apologizing to the President, the House, the Senate, or the American people for their behavior at that time.

Maybe some of you (David, you started this) can point me in the right direction for any evidence of these apologies?

-- Posted by Thom on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 12:20 AM

When a medical record is filled out on a patient, the patient has to put down a Social Security #. This is given to all Americans born in the United States of America. This is considered their Personal ID. If a patient does not have it, then they are not a Legal Citizen.

-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran

If you really believe that will work you should visit Tysons.

-- Posted by quietmike on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 5:25 AM

Freedom of Speech

-- Posted by stardust on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 7:58 AM

To counter Darrick_04's statment about fundraising. . .

"Joe Wilson's campaign fundraising has broken $1 million -- and surpassed that of his Democratic rival, Rob Miller -- since his outburst of "You lie!" during President Obama's address to Congress Wednesday.

Wilson's current tally is $1,005,021 from 18,859 donations amid a high-profile campaign on the Drudge Report and elsewhere telling conservatives that Wilson is "under attack" for his willingness to take on Obama.

Wilson, who initially apologized for his words, is now riding a reaction that has surpassed the liberal backlash to his words: Miller has raised less than $900,000, according to the Democratic fundraising site ActBlue -- though still more than enough to envigorate his challenge.

Still, Wilson's success -- despite having been criticized by Republican leaders -- represents the power of the conservative grassroots to reward politicians who confront the White House in the sharpest terms."

-- Posted by jaxspike on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 4:15 PM

"If you really believe that will work you should visit Tysons."

-- Posted by quietmike on Sat, Sep 12, 2009, at 5:25 AM

AMEN!!!

There was a reason for the indictments...

Momof3&3step&1gran--

FYI, I worked in HR at Tyson Foods during the era..."that ain't gonna work."

-- Posted by shawna.jones on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 1:02 AM

"Well, I also don't have someone else to pay for my food every meal, either, so do you propose that the goobermint start paying for everyone's food also? After all, TECHNICALLY, food is a part of health care. So, if they are going to pay for it, does that mean that they are going to be picking my menus for every meal? Or at least limiting the choices I have to only the "healthy" ones? This entire thing really has NOTHING to do with health care, and EVERYTHING to do with CONTROL OF THE PEOPLE!!! A typical socialist move. Guess we know which way you lean, don't we?"

-- Posted by BGPJ on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 1:53 AM

Could not have been said better...will it end at healthcare reform? Just how far will the government go in its campaign to have total control over its citizens? Maybe we'll all be provided a government issued debit card that allows us to purchase food, seek healthcare, receive clothing allotments, etc. And maybe the numbers on that government benefits card will end in 666. Think about it...

-- Posted by shawna.jones on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 12:08 PM

....and maybe they'll send us off the fight wars with countries that never attacked us, or had an intent on it... think about it.

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 2:23 PM

....and maybe they'll send us off the fight wars with countries that never attacked us, or had an intent on it... think about it.

-- Posted by darrick_04

That is always the battle cry among liberals lately.

It begs the question, you've had obama in office for almost 9 months and a solid majority in congress for longer, so why haven't they stopped the war(s)?

-- Posted by quietmike on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 3:00 PM

Well, I also don't have someone else to pay for my food every meal, either, so do you propose that the goobermint start paying for everyone's food also? After all, TECHNICALLY, food is a part of health care. So, if they are going to pay for it, does that mean that they are going to be picking my menus for every meal? Or at least limiting the choices I have to only the "healthy" ones? This entire thing really has NOTHING to do with health care, and EVERYTHING to do with CONTROL OF THE PEOPLE!!! A typical socialist move. Guess we know which way you lean, don't we?

-- Posted by BGPJ on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 1:53 AM

Honestly, some of you bozos need the government to pick menus for you and your children. It is tragic that parents would allow their young children to grow to obese proportions at such a young age. What a disgrace!

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 3:37 PM

It begs the question, you've had obama in office for almost 9 months and a solid majority in congress for longer, so why haven't they stopped the war(s)?

-- Posted by quietmike on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 3:00 PM

Obama never said he was going to stop the wars. Obama is currently redeploying our troops in Iraq to fight in Afghanistan. He has said all along that he was going to focus our efforts on Afghanistan and capturing Osama Bin Laden. You really need to pay more attention to the details.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 3:40 PM

Honestly, some of you bozos need the government to pick menus for you and your children. It is tragic that parents would allow their young children to grow to obese proportions at such a young age. What a disgrace!

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 3:37 PM

Nathan - I agree with you 100%, it is a disgrace that parents let their kids sit in front of the TV/PC/gaming console all day long and don't require a bit of physical exertion other than walking to the dinner table.

Back to the topic of this though, I'm still waiting for someone to show me where the Democrats apologized to Bush for their disrespect at his State of the Union address.

-- Posted by Thom on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 6:03 PM

There is nothing in the bill requiring a patient to verify his citizenship before receiving care.------by quitemike.

All patients have to fill out a form as to who will be responsible for a medical bill, they also require a Social Security #. Now they have questionares as to wether you are a US citizen or not. Non citizens do not have a citizens Social Security #. They are given a green card or Non Citizen card that states they are here for work only.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Secu...

Just something to think about, when Illegal Immigrants are not allowed to (Purchase) their own Insurance, as to who is going to foot the bill.

http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2...

But in truth, since obama supports amnesty for illegals they won't be illegal long if he gets his way.-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 9:48 PM

Funny this was said about Bush in 2006:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTI...

-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 7:09 PM

In a word, WRONG! No SSN is required to receive treatment, AND Federal Law prohibits such. Also, the SSN, according to Federal Law again, is not to be used as a personal ID number. I know it has morphed into one, but it was not SUPPOSED to have. More proof that the goobermint is NOT to be trusted.

-- Posted by BGPJ on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 1:44 AM

That is correct BGPJ as far as Medical Emergency In an ER. They will still have to be treated up to a point, but they are still told to fill out paper work. But a Medical Physician does not have to take you as a patient without proper documentation.

This is the year 2009, Soc. Sec. are used as personal IDs and tracking. BGPJ maybe you need to read and get an update as to what Soc. Sec. # are used for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Secu...

-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 7:22 PM

There was a reason for the indictments...

Momof3&3step&1gran--

FYI, I worked in HR at Tyson Foods during the era..."that ain't gonna work."

-- Posted by shawna.jones on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 1:02 AM

FYI, Shawna, Tyson had it's own agenda, that is why they "Allowed" what they did. And you working in the Human Resource Dept. at Tyson, has absolutely nothing to do with what goes on in a "Medical Facility". Physicians and Medical facilities are "Looking to get PAID" not give free medical services.

But, If you and Quitemike, and BGPJ actually believe you can see a doctor, medical facility or ER and not fill out paper work putting down either Insurance information, and not signing a form stating you are liable for payment whethter your insurance pays or not, and you do not have to give "Your Soc. Sec.,or your spouse's Soc. Sec. if he is paying the bill then go ahead and try.

I do not think that a non-citizen gets special priviledge and do not have to give this information like you three want to claim.

-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 7:34 PM

Momof3&3step&1gran--

I think you're missing the point. More often than not illegals use fake IDs and SS cards to get benefits. I had to be specially trained and certified in I-9s and fake ID detection during my stint at Tyson...the fakes were that good. How many "Physicians and Medical facilities" do you know that screen IDs at check-in? They don't even ask to see my ID when I go, and I could write down any SS number on the app. if I were trying to defraud the system.

Read this [real-life] account of a Guyana born woman who defrauded the welfare system of more than $450,000 from 1987 to 1994 using a collection of fake or stolen documents for herself and her "imaginary" children--including 11 sets of twins--then tell me it won't happen:

According to an article in the New York Times, a woman by the name of Shirley Simmons collected welfare benefits under 15 different names at once during the 1990s, and increased her benefts by claiming 73 children--none of whom existed. When investigators counted all the fake names that Ms. Simmons used over seven years, they found that she had obtained at least 15 different identification cards from the New York City Human Resources Administration, each with her real photograph on the front and each entitling her to public assistance.

Now, if the government couldn't spot an obvious "fraud" like this for over 7 years, do you really want them in charge of your healthcare policy? I'm not saying we don't need healthcare, I just think the government should worry about fixing the "messes" it has in place currently, before creating new ones.

SOURCE:

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/05/nyregi...

-- Posted by shawna.jones on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 11:42 PM

"Honestly, some of you bozos need the government to pick menus for you and your children. It is tragic that parents would allow their young children to grow to obese proportions at such a young age. What a disgrace!"

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 3:37 PM

Obesity can be directly related to many things, such as genetics and predisposition, not just family life. New obesity data shows blacks have the highest rates of obesity, rating at a 51 percent higher prevalence of obesity compared with whites, and Hispanics had 21 percent higher obesity prevalence when compared.

So should we blame race for obesity too. And what about social classes? I mean the poor can't afford to eat healthy right?

Honestly, Liberals scream against the suggestion that the welfare EBT program ban "junk" food as allowable foods on foodstamp purchases. Yet they inevitably pull out the "obesity card" everytime the healthcare issue comes up.

If statistics show blacks, hispanics, and low-income families to have a higher prevelance of obesity, then whom would you classify to be these "bozos" you referenced...Democrats?

The core of the Democrats' emerging majority consists of the groups that are struggling hardest to take care of themselves and their families. They hold a wider margin in single-mom families, blacks, low-income individuals/families, the ederly (many of whom are obese).

So are more obese Repulican or Democrat? And does it really matter? To use your analogy, why should "fit/trim" people have to pay for the over-indulgense of "fat" people? With the new healthcare bill you will...so you better push for major nutritional changes...like public school lunches, which are a huge source of fat and sodium (hmm, might be some of that obesity in children?); and banning junk food/sugar foods & drinks from foodstamp programs, etc.

SOURCE:

http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/trends.h...

-- Posted by shawna.jones on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 1:23 AM

Obama never said he was going to stop the wars. Obama is currently redeploying our troops in Iraq to fight in Afghanistan. He has said all along that he was going to focus our efforts on Afghanistan and capturing Osama Bin Laden. You really need to pay more attention to the details.

-- Posted by nathan.evans

Sorry wrong again. Is this going to be an ongoing trend with you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3VtuZevw...

At about the 39 second mark obama says he will end the war in Iraq.

What was it you said about details?

-- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 5:57 AM

I dont understand why the elderly are so afraid of people without insurance getting government run insurance. They are getting it and it is called medicare.The people marching in Washington Saturday didnot represent all America. I didnot see a person of color. Those people were selfish. any of them could lose their insurance at any time. The insurance companies are sitting back clapping. These ignorant people should realize that if healthcare reform doesnt pass insurance premiums are going to skyrocket.The ceos of these companys will get even bigger bonuses. Do those people hate Obama so much that they are willing to do this.If they are so worried about the deficit where wre they the last 8 years . Why didnt they march before it came to this.

-- Posted by lets be real on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 12:48 PM

Joe Wilsons true color just came out. His sheet just fell off.

-- Posted by lets be real on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 12:52 PM

Joe Wilsons true color just came out. His sheet just fell off.

-- Posted by lets be real on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 12:52 PM

Do you really think that racism is the reason for Representative Wilson's comment? That's one of the stupidest charges I've heard tossed around yet.

"I didnot see a person of color."

I have no idea which channel you watched, but the little bit of coverage that I saw showed several black men and women, as well as a contingent of hispanics that were there.

You seem to be one of those "It's always about color" people. If you feel the need to proclaim everything "racism" maybe you should look inward to see the true racist.

-- Posted by Thom on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 1:19 PM

Mike, Obama is ending the war in the Iraq. What planet are you living on?

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 1:24 PM

By following the exact same plan as the previous administration?

I am awestruck at his decisiveness.

-- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 1:50 PM

I didnot see a person of color.

-- Posted by lets be real

According to the main stream media there are no person's of color carrying weapons at obama speeches either. However the man described by MSNBC as a gun-toting racist was indeed a black man.

-- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 1:57 PM

By following the exact same plan as the previous administration?

I am awestruck at his decisiveness.

-- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 1:50 PM

Obama must honor all agreements made by the prior administration unless they do not live up to their end of the deal. Don't you remember last year when George Bush was trying to get a Status of Forces Agreement in place before his term expired? It is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact. You can't debate facts. If you could then they wouldn't be facts now would they?

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 2:35 PM

I don't get this mentality that if you disagree with President Obama then it must be because of his race?

People that are making those kinds of statements are insulting my intelligence because I believe in a certain principal and think for myself and because of that they want to label me racist because they assume that is the only reason anyone would disagree with someone is simply because of their race. I guess all the African-Americans who didn't vote for McCain or any other white politician must be racist too because they didn't agree with their policies either. You see how insane that sounds.

It is said to see such a low level of intelligence being displayed on these forums and across the nation. I guess I hate white people since I disagreed with Bush on his policies? LOL!

This kind of low level thinking just makes me want to bang my head against the wall. Evidently people have forgotten what real racism is.

In regards to the war in Iraq, Obama claimed he would end the war in Iraq during his presidential campaign but when he assumed office and learned the severity of the problems facing Iraq, he seemed to back off a bit on the rhetoric of ending the war and decided to go for a longer phase out while still maintaining some people in Iraq at the end to help the Iraqi military. I am no military expert so I can't question his judgment but I do believe he realized it was more complicated than he originally believed and have stepped back and tried to make better decisions with the intel he has. The end of the war to me means the capturing of Osama Bin Laden and both Bush and Obama have failed at this point to do that and transferring a war from Iraq to Afghanistan doesn't mean the war has ended either.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 2:42 PM

Also to all you people that think Obama's stimulus plan has had no effect. First off economists from both sides of the argument agreed that the stimulus was the right course of action. I think most of us in his situation would have signed the same stimulus bill. Secondly, only 8% of the money has been appropriated so far. Most of the stimulus package is set to be spent in next year's budget. And lastly, Obama took back the money that George Bush gave directly to the banks and instead directed the money be spent on infrastructure and other projects that will generate some steam in our economy.

Also many of you think that firing the CEO of General Motors was overreaching. Here's a news flash for you. Obama said it best last night on 60 Minutes. He held them accountable. The US tax payer had already given these companies billions of dollars with no accountability. He should have fired all the executives from AIG and all of the Wall Street banks that came begging also. General Motors failed and if they receive such a large investment of tax payer funds, then they should have to prove that they are working hard to earn it. Obviously Obama saw that Rick Waggoner was not doing a good job and that letting him go was in the best interest of the American tax payer and a shot across the bow of every other CEO in America that thinks they are too big to fail. After that the banks couldn't give the money back fast enough.

If many of you would just take the time to get the facts about what is really going on, and stop believing all the half-truths that are designed to make you pull a lever for a Republican, you would see that reality isn't as bad as the fiction being perpetuated.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 2:50 PM

So the constitution, the one you swore to defend, doesn't even figure in to the argument for you, or is it a matter of convenience?

-- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 2:52 PM

And to you Shawna... I don't care one bit about genetics or race when it comes to obesity. If your body only burns 2000 calories a day performing its normal functions, then only eat 2000 calories. It is not complicated.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM

So the constitution, the one you swore to defend, doesn't even figure in to the argument for you, or is it a matter of convenience?

-- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 2:52 PM

They are within the Constitution.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 2:58 PM

?????

Which part gives the government the power to decide who the CEO of a given company should be?

Better yet, what part lets government decide a business is "too big to fail" and give out tax money?

-- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 5:15 PM

I am no lawyer, but I do believe that the Commerce clause authorizes Congress to intervene in the dealings of automakers because the automakers own and operate factories in several different states.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 7:47 PM

Ooh, ooh...I know...I know!

-- Posted by Thom on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 7:47 PM

The "Commerce Clause" states that Congress shall have power "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes"

That doesn't sound to me like it is granting them the power to take over a corporation. Nor does it sound like it is granting them the power to use TAXPAYER monies to bail out a corporation that has been mismanaged. It sounds to me like they have the power to REGULATE commerce, NOT take it over.

-- Posted by Thom on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 8:01 PM

"And to you Shawna... I don't care one bit about genetics or race when it comes to obesity. If your body only burns 2000 calories a day performing its normal functions, then only eat 2000 calories. It is not complicated."

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 2:56 PM

Throw away your diet pills folks, Dr. nathan.evans just cured obesity...get serious! I am a diabetic who eats LESS than 2,000 calories on any given day--fact--and I seldom (if ever) eat sugar or "junk." Yet thanks to 6 years of continuous steroid use for sinusitus, I can't loose a pound of the extra 25 pounds I put on in that 6 years. I wore a size 6 even after birthing five children and crossing over the 33 years old mark, but now--despite serious diet pills, excercise/aerobics, and prepared low-calorie meals--I'm stuck in a size 10-12 for the past four years (not obese, but markedly overweight for my tastes).

I resent the fact that you lump EVERYONE into one category and make it sound so easy for them to loose the weight. So I suppose a similar arguement to people like you who wear glasses would be to eat more carrots/ingest more caotene and vitamin A to prevent failure of your eyesight (at least I didn't call you a "bozo")? Just pray you never have a medical condition whose required medication has side effects that cause you to gain weight.

I'm not obese, and NONE of my children ever made it above the 50% mark on weight (three of whom couldn't even make the 5% mark, so I guess someone like you would class them as "malnurished"), but I find your reference to others as "bozos" and implications that they are ignorant, highly offensive. I doubt very much that most of those people want to be fat, and if they could afford gastric surgery, most would probably undergo it, despite the dangers involved.

This subject obviously runs deep with me, to be admitting my difficulties with weight--I have NEVER done that before. I weighed 105 pounds at 5' 7" for the better part of my life. I've only recently come to terms with the fact that no matter what I do, the weight will not come off. So, YES, it is complicated. And if you call me fat, I'll deck you (LOL).

To summarize, what I am trying to say is that not everyone can help their size/weight. To lump them all into one category and label it with a single biased tag is not only unfair, but cruel. I do think obesity is a serious problem plaguing our nation, but ignorance of the "disease" is also a problem. What is our advice to people who suffer from Anorexia and Bulimia...eat more, throw up less? It's a lot more complicated than that, ergo the need to term it a "disease" rather than "condition."

Nonetheless, I still do not support the healthcare bill. It's like putting a band-aide on a ruptured artery...a temporary fix eventually ending in death.

-- Posted by shawna.jones on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 9:25 PM

If you take steroids then that is different all together. Without a doubt though if a person suffers from being obese, eating less is certainly the cure. It doesn't take much to reach your daily limit of calories and it takes a lot of minutes on an exercise machine to burn them. If you have an iPhone or iPod Touch, I would highly recommend the LIVESTRONG App and use it to monitor the calories that you are eating each day. I can almost reach my daily limit with one meal, but I just choose to eat something else instead.

-- Posted by nathan.evans on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 9:53 PM

nathan.evans--

Thanks for the tip. Steroids suck, no doubt. I suffered Anorexia as a teen (medically treated for it), so having a "real" over-weight problem has been surreal. I thought I was fat at 105 pounds, imagine how it feels now that I'm pushing 150.

It's why I get so defensive on the weight issue. My apologies if I got too heated. And you are right about most cases--over-eating and laziness are a big factor...still not an easy fix though, because there is almost always an underlying psychological issue (yes, I minored in Psych).

Anyway, do you write for http://www.livestrong.com/blog/2008/? I see they are looking for writers/bloggers who have experience in fitness, diet, and nutrition areas to write informational articles. Might be something of interest to you if you are not already doing so--offers a flex schedule and pay (based on article type).

P.S. I honestly only consume an average of 1,800-2,000 calories daily...it just won't drop off. So if you hear of a "miracle diet pill" that "melts" the fat, post a link...please.

-- Posted by shawna.jones on Mon, Sep 14, 2009, at 10:21 PM

Momof3&3step&1gran--

I think you're missing the point. More often than not illegals use fake IDs and SS cards to get benefits. I had to be specially trained and certified in I-9s and fake ID detection during my stint at Tyson...the fakes were that good. How many "Physicians and Medical facilities" do you know that screen IDs at check-in? They don't even ask to see my ID when I go, and I could write down any SS number on the app. if I were trying to defraud the system.-- Posted by shawna.jones on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 11:42 PM

Shawna, yes I was missing that point. I was focusing more on the fact of them not having a Soc. Sec. Number as being a give away that they are not legally born in America. But I was not thinking of the fact of them using someone elses Soc.Sec. Card.

-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 1:26 PM

"Also, the SSN, according to Federal Law again, is not to be used as a personal ID number. I know it has morphed into one, but it was not SUPPOSED to have. More proof that the goobermint is NOT to be trusted.

-- Posted by BGPJ on Sun, Sep 13, 2009, at 1:44 AM

This is the year 2009, Soc. Sec. are used as personal IDs and tracking. BGPJ maybe you need to read and get an update as to what Soc. Sec. # are used for.

BGPJ here is the Soc. Sec. Link again Sorry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Secu...

This one does work this time.

Read The Part of what it is used for, and then you may see what I was referring to:

Purpose and use

The original purpose of this number was to track individuals' accounts within the Social Security program. It has since come to be used as an identifier for individuals within the United States, although rare errors occur where duplicates do exist.

I do see what you where saying about it wasn't suppose to be used as a personal ID #, that it got morphed into it. The website does say it's original purpose was to track individuals "Accounts" within Soc. Sec. program.

-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Wed, Sep 16, 2009, at 1:34 PM


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David Melson is a copy editor and staff writer for the Times-Gazette.