David Melson

Right use for a gun

Posted Monday, January 2, 2012, at 8:57 AM
View 22 comments
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  • I presume the rescue was successful? It must not have been too deep since I would probably remove my Glock before swimming in any water, let alone freezing cold.

    I had a friend ask just yesterday, "what president approved gun ownership"? They were responding to a news report about some illegal use, but I explained that it really was not just a president and went pretty far back in our Nation's history.

    I am in favor of the second Amendment and while not wanting to see a return of the "gunslinger" days, I don't oppose carrying either.

    Glad to see it used constructively and peacefully.

    -- Posted by stevemills on Mon, Jan 2, 2012, at 9:17 AM
  • Ahh Steve you know a Glock is one of the only guns that will shoot under water.The car could have been 10 feet under and the gun would have still fired.Carry your's swimming with you the next time.I would say wear ear plugs to keep from bursting your eardrums when you shoot at a catfish or carp.

    -- Posted by mytaxesaremine on Mon, Jan 2, 2012, at 9:59 AM
  • A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.[20]

    * A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:[21]

    * 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"

    * 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"

    * 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"


    If we can trust the military and police to be armed, we should be able to trust each other, after all the military and police are just regular people who took an oath and wear matching clothing.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Jan 2, 2012, at 2:00 PM
  • "A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year."

    smell test. in 1994 there were @ 97.1 million households in the us. rounding the figures off for convenience, a half million intruders driven off with firearms out of 100 million housholds would amount to one such incident for every 200 households, EVERY YEAR. there are a little over 6,000 households in shelbyville, which would mean we should have more than 30 such incidents per year. we really would be living in the wild west, if the actual number came anywhere close to that.

    justfacts.com seems to be a little factually challenged. as a matter of fact (pun intended), that number should strike anyone with a basic grasp of math as patently ridiculous.

    -- Posted by lazarus on Tue, Jan 3, 2012, at 12:54 AM
  • there are a little over 6,000 households in shelbyville, which would mean we should have more than 30 such incidents per year. we really would be living in the wild west, if the actual number came anywhere close to that.

    -- Posted by lazarus


    If Shelbyville had the same crime rate as, say, Memphis or Detroit, your argument would be correct.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Tue, Jan 3, 2012, at 4:32 AM
  • USDOJ National Victimization report 2008, 4.8 mil violent crimes not reported on average year.

    FBI UCR 2008 1.38 mil violent crimes reported, 9.38 mil property crimes reported of which 2.23 mil were burglaries of home, vehicle or property.

    Since the government acknowledges 70% of violent crimes do not get reported, we are assuming you have irrefutable proof to show that SAME 70% of property crimes not being reported as violent crimes are, is different eh, NOPE.

    Care to do a real probability factorial based on this information from the government and rethink your belief as based on the cursory facts, the fact.org numbers are low!

    -- Posted by Jarhead1982 on Tue, Jan 3, 2012, at 6:35 AM
  • adjusting for crime rate statistics for property crime, where shelbyville is roughly 90% of the national average, you could lower that estimate to 27 times per year. moving to memphis, whose rate is roughly 135% of the national average, and which has a little over 250,000 households, such events should be occuring 1,700 times per year, or nearly 5 times per day. sorry quite mike, those numbers are ridiculous.

    not sure what jughead is trying to say, but if he is trying to claim the reported numbers are only 30% of the total, that would change shelbyville's estimate to almost 90 incidents a year (one every 4 days), and memphis to nearly 5,700 (or 16 times a day).

    -- Posted by lazarus on Tue, Jan 3, 2012, at 11:42 AM
  • I think JARHEAD (not jughead) is saying a lot of things happen that, for various reasons, are never reported to the police.

    -- Posted by quietmike on Tue, Jan 3, 2012, at 12:27 PM
  • Correct mike, four separate times in my life, I protected my mother, myself and my family. Since I was "situationally aware" and did not let the perps close to contact distance, I saved my family and I from harm, especially my mother as we found out the 6'2" 300+ lb burglar had a history of violence against women.

    Being that no shots were fired, wonder just exactly what numbnuts thinks the perps could be charged with that the existing law system wouldn't plea down or out of, LOL, not one dang thing which is why we never reported it to the police. Prime example of what the government data states.

    But hey Lazurus has government data and the statistical probability formula all fixed out to prove all those incidents do not occur, ROTFLMFAO, ROTFLMFAO, yep. Bet Lazurus believes the world is flat also.

    Hey Lazurus, wheres your partner Beavis at?

    -- Posted by Jarhead1982 on Tue, Jan 3, 2012, at 12:47 PM
  • four separate times, eh. but being "situationally aware" nothing actually happened... except what? or have you just pulled your gun on people whose looks you didnt like on four separate occasions? seems like you arent too situationally aware, as i have gone 60 years, including stints in memphis & new york city, without ever having to wave a gun around.

    besides your paranoid fantasies, where is the evidence of someone in shelbyville using a gun to prevent the commission of a crime once every 4 days?

    -- Posted by lazarus on Tue, Jan 3, 2012, at 1:06 PM
  • Why are you so afraid of citizens being armed?

    -- Posted by quietmike on Tue, Jan 3, 2012, at 1:44 PM
  • i'm not afraid of citizens being armed. i am a gunowner myself. i just object to nonsense numbers.

    ok. there are some people who scare me having guns. mostly the ones who write crazy letters referencing ridiculous "statistics."

    -- Posted by lazarus on Tue, Jan 3, 2012, at 3:30 PM
  • Do you believe every crime or thwarted crime is reported to the police?

    If anything the CDC is biased towards gun control, so why would their study "inflate" numbers to paint gun owners in a positive light?

    -- Posted by quietmike on Tue, Jan 3, 2012, at 3:59 PM
  • you didnt get the numbers from the cdc, you got them from "justfacts.com"

    -- Posted by lazarus on Tue, Jan 3, 2012, at 4:22 PM
  • No matter what ANY statistics, graphs or cumulative data may point out. It's still far better to have a gun and never need it than to need one and not have it.

    -- Posted by Tim Lokey on Wed, Jan 4, 2012, at 9:20 AM
  • Paranoid fantasies, yeah, right!

    Sigh, having to explain what situationally aware means to those children who rode the small yellow buses gets rather old.

    It means that I recognize what was happening when three young misguided youths, pull up within 20 yards of my truck when I am loading my flat bottom boat up at the river landing. That then watching 2 of those youths, swing around to get behind me so that I would have any possible escape cut off. Funny how they had those funny looking objects in their hands called TIRE IRONS.

    So what do you think they wanted to talk about einstein, how to play cricket?

    Oh my, that 6'2" 300 lb burglar whom I by grace of God, stopped from breaking in on my 5'2" 100lb mother by putting a .44 mag in his face. Yeah such fantasies.

    How about those 4 little gang banger wannabe's at the strip mall about 8pm one summer evening, who followed me and my girl out to the car. Why would they follow us all the way to the outer edge of the lot, when there was only one car there, ours? Oh thats right, situationally aware means to beavis's partner that NO ONE ever has bad intentions, especially when the little p-r-i-c-k-s are hold phillipine butterfly knives.

    But oh no, not letting them get within 21 ft is paranoid right einstein. Do you even know what the 21 ft rule is, doubt it.

    Hey, maybe you've never seen a trailer park cutie in a halter top, yes she had some nice ones, asking for help with her imagiinary broken down car. Luckily her boyfriend was not "woodsie" and picked the wrong cover to hide behind with a ball bat, kinda stood out. Yeah all fantasies, and in each and every one because I was situationally aware, I was prepared and ready before they were and "communicated" what exactly I would do in a clear and concise fashion. Funny how little p-r-i-c-k-s bringing a knife, ball bat, or tire to a gun fight tend to run away without getting shot by the person who is situationally aware.

    So what again would your family members have been charged with for an attack prevented oh mighty knows everything and his word is law?

    -- Posted by Jarhead1982 on Thu, Jan 5, 2012, at 2:52 AM
  • Oh you want data, hey lets review the following.

    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm FBI UCR Database

    You know, the government database showing in 2008 that 1.38 mil violent crimes were reported and that of those 381,000 involved a firearm

    Firearm Use by Offenders, Bureau of Justice Statistics, November 2001 http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=940.

    http://www.data.gov/details/1526 USDOJ National Victimization Report 2008

    You know, the government agency sub annual report showing in 2008 alone that 4.8 mil violent crimes were not reported.

    Oh wait, whats this, annual firearm discharge reports that show the police only hit their targets 15% of the time, su ch a common trend.





    See page 4 & 5 for



    NYPD SOP-9







    15% hits



    Uh just an fyi there were approximately 12,252 murders and 70,000 injuries by firearms in 2008.

    Here is some reading material for you einstein, care to do a better analysis and provide better data as obviously you are God and know EVERYTHING!

    http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/KleckAndGertz1.htm 2.5 million dgu study

    Follow that up with a famous and knowledgable anti gun expert who can't refute Kleck & Gertz's study, methodology or data

    http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Wolfgang1.html reknown anti cant refute

    Then follow that up with another anti gun effort to refute the study, paid for by the anti gun Joyce Foundation and sponsored by the Clinton administration.

    http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf anti professors paid to refute, admit that DGU's occur.

    Funny how if you actually read this study, and then review the arbitrary decision that they would not use data where an attack was prevented, because no physical attack did not occur, sounds just like you einstein. Guess you are an anti gunner at heart!

    Now lets do the math, something we doubt you were ever good at, even simple math!

    -- Posted by Jarhead1982 on Thu, Jan 5, 2012, at 3:08 AM
  • See in that Firearms use by Offenders report, the criminals are identified as using firing a shot in 15% of the crimes where they used a firearm to commit the crime.

    The police firearm discharge reports say the same % when they have to engage a criminal or perp with their firearms.

    The police firearm discharge reports at best show 15% of the times a shot is fired is the target hit.

    Since no one can prove criminals are better shots, will use this as the standard for the math as using a lower percentage will just inflate the numbers worse for the anti gun zealots.

    The FBI UCR database 2008 shows 381,000 violent crimes reported with a firearm.

    So 381,000 x 15% of shots fired = 57,150 times shots were fired

    57,150 x 15% of times targets hit = 8,573 total deaths and injuries that should have occurred from all the violent crimes reported as no OTHER violent crime EVER occur right?

    But oh wait, there 82,252 deaths and injuries from shootings/violent crime sin 2008.

    WOW, such a coincidink eh einstein.

    Hey, the actual math means you will have to work off the ACTUAL number of deaths and injuries to figure out how many incidents and times shots fired occurred.

    So 82,252 / 15% = 1% x 100 equals number of times shots fired =548,346

    548,346 / 15% = 1% x 100 equals number of incidents where firearm was used to commit a violent crime = 3,655,644

    Uh dude, there were only 381,000 violent crimes reported involving a firearm, oh woe is you, how can that be.

    Oh wait, the government actually acknowledges that 70% of all violent crimes dont get reported (National Victimization report 2008)

    Wow, einstein, you are so brilliant, you have all that government data, and proper statistical probablities to refute ALL those facts and show every how EVERY single incident gets reported to police and it is IMPOSSIBLE that ALL those incidents where no SHOTS were fired, never, ever do not get reported, lol.

    So much for fake gun owners failing to support their positions and basing their beliefs on only their paranoid delusions.

    -- Posted by Jarhead1982 on Thu, Jan 5, 2012, at 3:26 AM
  • Hey, lets review some more fantasies, as all these police incident reports must surely be fantasies.

    These are just from on website that collates DGU's, Keep & Bear Arms.

    Many others (KC3, American Rifleman, Armed Citizen....) , geez, counting shows on average 80 per month reviewing all those websites together.

    Since the NRA or 80 mil law abiding gun owners dont own or control any police departments, any claim of bias just means the village knows where to look for thei lost idiot!

    * Las Vegas Pawn Shop Employee Shoots, Kills Armed Robber (NV)

    * Armed neighbor stops burglary (TX)

    * Home invasion ends with suspect's stabbing (WA)

    * Blanchard woman shoots and kills intruder (OK)

    * Wendy's Employee Shoots, Kills 1 of 2 Armed Robbers (GA)

    * Teenager Shoots, Kills Home Invader With Shotgun (TN)

    * Fort Worth Woman Shoots & Kills Home Intruder (TX)

    * Couple Shoots At, Captures Intruder On Drugs (OR)

    * Retired Police Officer Shoots Career Criminal/Home Invader (MI)

    * Home Invader Who Was Wearing Body Armor, Shot, Killed (NC)

    * DGU Puts Kroger in a Jam Over Employee Gun Policy (IN)

    * Wife Shoots Homeless Squatter Who Attacked Husband (SC)

    * Pistol-packing mayor draws heat (AL)

    * Man stabbed to death after breaking into home (KY)

    * Aloha couple wakes up to man beating them with tiki torch (OR)

    * 2 shot in gunfire exchange at coney island on Detroit's west side (MI)

    * Investigators try to determine if a fatal Montgomery County shooting was justified (PA)

    * Magalia man shot to death after forcing way into home (CA)

    * Reno police say resident shoots intruder twice and puts him in the hospital (NV)

    * Armed husband stops suspected car thief (CA)

    * ldham County Shooter Claims Self-Defense (KY)

    * Richmond Man Says He Shot Burglar in Self Defense (KY)

    * Robbery: Two charged with manslaughter after victim shoots their accomplices, police say (AK)

    * Woman attacked by multiple dogs saved by Good Samaritans (AZ)

    * Merrimack woman with gun thwarts home invasion (NH)

    * Home invasion leads to melee, death (OR)

    * Man shot after he follows another man home (TX)

    * Homeowner Holds Suspect at Gunpoint (NC)

    * Washington homeowner shoots intruder (WA)

    * Homeowner Shoots Would-Be Robber (TN)

    * Video: Storeowner shoots would-be robber (CT)

    * Bad Law Enforcement Advice of the Day: Colorado Springs Edition (CO)

    * Police: Phoenix mom kills backyard intruder (AZ)

    * Retired Officer Fires Fatal Shot During Break-In (MI)

    * MPD Says Burglar Shot and Wounded Friday (MS)

    * Deputies: Suspect shot dead in home invasion (CA)

    * After Bark Alerts Wife, Husband Kills Thanksgiving Intruder (PA)

    * Second Man Arrested In Deadly Home Invasion (CO)

    * Local resident captures midnight burglar (OK)

    * Police: Stabbing at Saginaw Township apartment in self defense; man charged with torture of girlfriend (MI)

    * Homeowner steps up: shoots suspected burglar in the back (TX)

    * Homeowner wounds alleged burglar; Deputies: No charges expected in the shooting (LA)

    * Police say 10-year-old boy fought off mother's attacker with BB gun (WA)

    * Virginia Avenue Shooting (NY)

    * Store clerk shoots, kills robbery suspect (OH)

    * Homeowner foils NW Harris County break-in (TX)

    * Police identify man shot during attempted robbery (IN)

    * Self-defense: Teen hunter kills mountain lion (NE)

    * Victim Wounds Suspected Robber (TN)

    * The 2nd Amendment in action (GA)

    * Retired SBPD officer shoots suspect during attempted armed robbery (IN)

    * Pub Employee Wounds Would-be Robber (OR)

    * Mom with Ohio concealed handgun license fires gun to ward off sex offender's violent attack (OH)

    * Burglar avoids being shot while robbing SI mansion formerly owned by mobster (NY)

    * Police: Man shot dead in Antioch threatened homeowner with knife (CA)

    * Memphis pizza delivery guy shoots would-be robber (TN)

    * 2 arrested for armed robbery at Max Muscle store (CA)

    * Oakland Non-Occupant: I Rack, They Ran (CA)

    * Shots Ring Out After Man Finds Intruder In Home (WV)

    * Armed man tells Minneapolis police: I shot robber (MN)

    * Redding Woman Kills Intruder (CA)

    * Alleged burglar shot by Boone Co. resident charged (AR)

    * Columbia County burglar flees in the face of gunfire (FL)

    * Suspected burglar shot, killed in Cascade Valley (WA)

    * Clerk in Fla. kills would be robber, saves baby (FL)

    * Homeowner shoots, kills teen suspect in home invasion (TX)

    * Burglary suspect picks the wrong home for break-in attempt (OR)

    * Man Killed With Arrow In Stonycreek Township (PA)

    * Ex-Boyfriend Shot During Alleged Home Invasion (WV)

    * Cincy store clerk distracts armed robber long enough to pull own gun and shoot (OH)

    * Shooter may have been acting in self-defense (AL)

    * Man killed in Bay Point home threatened family with a screwdriver, authorities say (CA)

    * Harrisonburg Police Make Arrest in Weekend Shooting Incident (VA)

    * Elderly ND man hold intruder at bay with handgun (ND)

    * Retired Police Officer Shoots and Kills Suspect in Attempted Robbery (NY)

    -- Posted by Jarhead1982 on Thu, Jan 5, 2012, at 3:30 AM
  • Here is some more fact for your paranoia.

    Lets review the following 10 mass shootings, and note what the body counts were where resistance occurred versus no resistance.

    October 16, 1991, Luby's Cafeteria, Killeen, TX, "Gun-Free": 1 gunman, 23 murdered, 20 injured.

    April 20, 1999, Columbine, "Gun-Free": 2 gunmen, 13 murdered, 24 injured. Many were murdered AFTER the police were "on scene".

    April 16, 2007, Virginia Tech, "Gun-Free": 1 gunman, 32 murdered, 25 injured. Most were murdered AFTER the police were "on scene".

    Feb 14,2008 Northern Illinois University, 1 gunman, 5 dead, 18 injured, gunman kills self long before police arrive to engage.

    Nov 5 ,2009 Ft Hood Texas, 1 gunman, 13 dead, 30 wounded. Military personnel on base are BANNED from having a weapon, but the shooter did, and it was almost 9 minutes before police responded

    Gun Free Zone 5 incidents

    Defenseless victims murdered: 86

    Defenseless victims injured: 117

    December 17, 1991 Shoney's Family Restaurant, Anniston, AL: 3 gunmen, 20 hostages, one ARMED customer (Thomas Glenn Terry). Police finally arrived to find one dead robber, one wounded robber and the third had fled when the shooting started. NO INJURED INNOCENTS.

    October 1, 1997, Pearl High School: 1 gunman, 2 murdered, 7 injured: Stopped by ARMED vice principal.

    January 16, 2002, Virginia Appalachian School of Law: 1 gunman, 3 murdered, 3 injured. Killer was stopped when confronted by two ARMED students.

    Dec 9 2007, Colorado Springs, New Life Church, 1 gunman 2 murdered, 3 injured, gunman stopped when armed woman shoots gunman, who then turns gun on self and commits suicide, while 100 other church members are in church.

    May 4th, College Station Georgia 2 gunman, 10 victims, 1 dead gunman, 1 victim wounded. The 2 thugs robbing a party begin discussing if they have enough bullets to do the job. One man retrieves his firearm, kills one thug, chases the other off.

    Where murderers encountered ARMED resistance 5 incidents

    murdered: 7

    Where murderers encountered ARMED resistance; injured: 14

    Wow, where no resistance occurred 9 plus times higher body count.

    Yep, a higher body count is morally superior to a lower body count based onanti gun zealots beliefs.

    -- Posted by Jarhead1982 on Thu, Jan 5, 2012, at 3:34 AM
  • But hey, since the federal & state supreme courts have ruled 10 separate times the police are not legally liable to protect the individual citizen, whats your point again?

    Wow, such paranoia.

Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 616 (7th Cir. 1982) (no federal constitutional requirement that police provide protection)

    Calogrides v. Mobile, 475 So. 2d 560 (Ala. 1985); Cal Govt. Code 845 (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

    Calogrides v. Mobile, 846 (no liability for failure to arrest or to retain arrested person in custody)

    Davidson v. Westminster, 32 Cal.3d 197, 185, Cal. Rep. 252; 649 P.2d 894 (1982) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

    Stone v. State 106 Cal.App.3d 924, 165 Cal Rep. 339 (1980) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

    Morgan v. District of Columbia, 468 A.2d 1306 (D.C.App. 1983) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

    Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C.App 1981) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

    Sapp v. Tallahassee, 348 So.2d 363 (Fla. App. 1st Dist.), cert. denied 354 So.2d 985 (Fla. 1977); Ill. Rec. Stat. 4-102 (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

    Keane v. Chicago, 98 Ill. App.2d 460, 240 N.E.2d 321 (1st Dist. 1968) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

    Jamison v. Chicago, 48 Ill. App. 3d 567 (1st Dist. 1977) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

    Simpson's Food Fair v. Evansville, 272 N.E.2d 871 (Ind. App.) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

    Silver v. Minneapolis, 170 N.W.2d 206 (Minn. 1969) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

    Wuetrich V. Delia, 155 N.J. Super. 324, 326, 382, A.2d 929, 930 cert. denied 77 N.J. 486, 391 A.2d 500 (1978) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

    Chapman v. Philadelphia, 290 Pa. Super. 281, 434 A.2d 753 (Penn. 1981) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

    Morris v. Musser, 84 Pa. Cmwth. 170, 478 A.2d 937 (1984) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

    "Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others." -Lynch vs North Carolina Department of Justice 1989

    Why is it, that the police, whose best response times are 4 minutes, avg 15-20 minutes can only solve 8.75% of all violent crimes committed on a yearly basis?

    FBI UCR 2008 1.38 mil VCR (Violent Crime Reported) 49% solved to prosecution, 80% success rate. But oh wait, we have to remember those 4.8 million violent crimes the government recognizes that were not reported USDOJ National Victimization report 2008.

    So based on that (1.38 mil x 49%) x 80%) / 1.38 mil + 4.8 mil = 8.75% of the violent crimes committed are solved each year.

    Wow, guess you dont buy any life, car, home or medical insurance either as to do so is paranoid!

    Hey lets look at what the government RULED on who actually has to follow the laws.


    Haynes vs. U.S. 390 U.S. 85 1968 where the US Supreme Court ruled 8-1 in favor of Haynes that any law requiring a felon to self incriminate themselves and violate their 5th amendment rights was not enforceable as a charge for prosecution. Hence criminals don't have to follow 85% of the existing gun control laws that do so, e.g. your stolen weapons, registrations, etc....

    Amazing how the criminals don't have to obey these laws yet only law-abiding citizens do? This just validates the hypocrisy that laws affect only the felons!

    After all, 20,000 gun laws and we see how effective a piece of legislation is at stopping violence because if it did, there wouldn't be ANY VIOLENT CRIME.

    -- Posted by Jarhead1982 on Thu, Jan 5, 2012, at 3:38 AM
  • Lazarus, I am a little shocked by the accusations that you made about Jughead. It was completely unfair for you to presume that he/she was suffering from paranoid delusions stemming from his/her insecurities regarding his/her personal safety. After all, there are other explanations. Perhaps Jughead frequently puts him/herself into dangerous and/or questionable situations, or more likely, maybe he/she just possesses a personality that regularly elicits a violent response from others.

    -- Posted by memyselfi on Fri, Jan 13, 2012, at 1:40 PM
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