'Common' people aren't being heard

Posted Monday, January 16, 2012, at 8:59 AM

Sen. Bob Corker visited Tennessee last Tuesday, talking to Nashville-area Realtors, Cheatham County CEOs and the Dover Kiwanis Club.

What about the rest of us? Do you have to be "connected" to be heard?

Yes, the business community should have a voice and, yes, some business people can get things done well.

But the trend in recent years has been for mostly business people to run for office, along with constant reminders around election time that people who have run a business should be in charge.

Well, some "business" people, i.e. Wall Street, have nearly run America into the ground. And so-called "blue-collar" people have just as much, if not more, sense and common sense.

Everyone should have a voice.

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Republican Sen. Corker was speaking to those groups gathering support for bill that He has helped introduce to privatize mortage industry.

"Common" homeowners and renters need to speak up against this.

That is why I supportthe Occupy Movement.

-- Posted by ckna910 on Mon, Jan 16, 2012, at 9:22 AM

Wall street didn't run us into the ground crooked politicians who voted to bail out failing companies did.

-- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Jan 16, 2012, at 12:17 PM

Anyone who expects Corker to "represent the people" have him confused with someone who cares about the people. He is for the corporations, the "people" just get in his way. The only 99% he cares about is the 99% of the wealth he is interested in getting into the pockets of the 1%. Well said Mike, you have Corker nailed to the tee. Occupy is a great movement, it can use the support of all the people who want to take America back for the people, no matter what party they vote.

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Mon, Jan 16, 2012, at 1:02 PM

The occupy people don't need support, they need ambition. If they put as much effort into working as whining, they would have overwhelming success.

-- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Jan 16, 2012, at 2:41 PM

Well you have been have you? Your biased, uninformed comment shows nothing more that your reliance on rumors and rhetoric to get your information. Have you actually been to any of their events? Have you actually done any first hand research of the movement? My guess by your comment is you get your views of the movement from the comments you read on some right wing fear monger source that does not bother to use facts. SO Mike I ask have you attended any events to get first hand real information and see what they are truely about? I do not mean down time but when they have meeting and events? If not them do tell where you get your information.

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Mon, Jan 16, 2012, at 3:12 PM

I hit send by mistake , so I need to fix my comment a bit. The first question was asking if you have ever gone up Nashville to see for yourself what goes on with the Occupy movement or if you just use the hate mongers and your prejudices to get your misinformation. You may be surprised, I know I was. The people involved ranged from the young to old, wealthy and poor, professional and laymen. There is a wide variety of people - what they do have in common is they care about the people of this country. They scheduled their individual involvement around their jobs, school and families. There are homeless folks there because the movement is assisting them as they can. What it was not was a bunch of lazy unmotivated whiners like you call them. Perhaps you should go and take an education break and learn about what you choose to trash before you do, sit in on one of the Ga meetings, it never hurts to see reality first hand before you judge it.

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Mon, Jan 16, 2012, at 3:36 PM

In general the political leaders of this great country are not in touch with, nor do they care about the common folks. The few that do get trampled under the wheels of progress and standard operating procedures of politics. Why does everyone act so surprised at what has become normal in our capitals?

-- Posted by Bill H on Mon, Jan 16, 2012, at 3:51 PM

No I haven't personally gone because I'm too busy working, and I don't want the government to redistribute anything to me.

Here is a partial list of where I've gotten information about the OWS protests.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKzGbgSe8...

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/10/24/pa...

http://nation.foxnews.com/occupy-wall-st...

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/20...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/101...

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/10/24/accus...

http://biggovernment.com/dhunter/2011/10...

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/10/16...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manha...

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2011/10/18/p...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/20...

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/11/occ...

-- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Jan 16, 2012, at 5:55 PM

I noticed your references were all very biased ones. I do not see where you referenced to anything that may give you better understanding of the goals of the movement ( not just what to use against it) or that addressed the bias and the attacks against the movement. You did not mention sites such as

http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...

http://occupydenver.org/occupy-denver-re...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/09/ed...

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/10/11/...

http://www.examiner.com/progressive-in-d...

Your references show only one side of the subject, they are very biased showing no interest in what the movement is about, only extreme situations that could easily be staged to help discredit the movement by provocateurs. If you had researched the intentions of this movement you would have read one of their main objectives is that they are to be peaceful - nonviolent at all times.

SO in response to your references, I say that there is room to question the motives behind those who provided the stories.

We all know Youtube is unreliable, anyone with a camera can stage an event to make a point. While it is a good outlet for exposing what goes on it is also a haven for false reporting and manipulating. Think of the anti Tea Party stories do you think they were all factual, or perhaps they were misrepresentations, as well as the ones here on Occupy could be.

The others are owned by the very thing the movement is against, corporate America. So there is an extreme conflict of intrest. If Occupy succeeds they lose, so what incentive do they have to report anything other than biased information that would lead their readers to their point of view? It is not in their intrest to find out if the trouble makers are part of the movement or provocateurs out to disrupt the image of it. That makes important to take responsibility to look for the truth and not just take everything we read at print value. Just because they write it does not make it true. Honor in reporting is not important to the media anymore, they have their agendas that is now their highest calling, facts are not important.

There are always more than one side to the issue. If you fail to be open to all sides of an issue you will always be 1/2 blind. To not look into the validity of information leaves us ill prepared to know the truth, you mentioned MOTIVATION, what about the importance of motivation to find facts rather than take the lazy way of only seeking out some one to tell you what you want to hear? It's easy to sit by your ( people in general not pointing to you pr say) computer and make biased, prejudiced opinions - it takes motivation to educate yourself with facts, to confirm what you read and look for the facts, even when they do not say what you want to hear.It takes effort to go out and see for ourselves what is going on rather than sit and wait for the puppet master to tell you what to think. It would be worth the time to take a ride to Nashville and see for yourself what it is about, go to a GA meeting. Even those who do not back them, at least then you have a better, first hand idea of what goes on. Try to go when they have a scheduled speaker to get an even better grasp of their standing. You can get more information at

OCCUPYNASHVILLE.ORG

Then do something really fun and unpolitical while your there and go see the Predators play (Fun is necessary too)

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Mon, Jan 16, 2012, at 9:47 PM

So Reuters, ABC news,CBS news, the LA Times, and the NY Post are biased????

I noticed you didn't deny the stories truthfulness, you only criticized those who reported them.

-------

Let's look at Occupynashville's site:

Our goals are:

1) Remove money from politics

2) End corporate personhood

3) Support the Occupy Wall Street movement

--------

Removing money from politics? How will candidates let voters know who they are and what their positions on the issues are?

End corporate personhood...Would they also end the personhood of unions? Both are just organizations who represent their members.

Support the occupy wall street movement...If they are really opposed to the alliance of government/business (isn't everyone?) why don't they occupy government? Government is the one with the responsibility to uphold the constitution, and they failed.

If a criminal bribed one of our judges, who should bear the most scorn, the criminal who is expected to do bad things, or the judge who is charged with upholding the law?

-----

Could you tell me if there is an official list of "demands" from the occupy movement? I have seen several on the occupy forums, but all have been quickly disavowed.

-- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Jan 16, 2012, at 10:40 PM

I guess not.

-- Posted by quietmike on Wed, Jan 18, 2012, at 3:38 AM

The subject of this blog really hits it out of the park. It is dead on, common people are not being heard or listened to.

The media should be the vehicle for that but they are not. Instead they seem to merely parrot the views of their owners, under reporting, biased, and misleading.

For example; much was said about the Patriot Act and the power grab that Bush inflicted on us and rightly so. But, the recent signing law (12/31/11 of NDAA) by Obama (that exrends the power Bush grabbed to apply to not only illegals or foreign nationals, but to U.S. Citizensa as well) went by with little, to no, national exposure.

This law effectively means you no longer have the right to face your accuser in a timely manner if that accuser is the government. Read about it here. http://www.infowars.com/president-obamas...

Where is the outrage? Why aren't the common people being heard? When I aksed my very liberal father-in-law about this, (who lives and breaths news reports) he didn't even know about it???

I can see just by the posts on this blog that the common people are so divided that they don't know where to turn and so, they turn on each other. It seems we are afflicted with the Stockholme Syndrome assigning allegiance to, and sympothizing with, the views of those who are oppressing us.

One side, the Dems,are for big government control, regulation and subsidies. The other side, the GOP, is for big business, and so called "free-market". The common people are caught in between with the only choice being the lesser of the two evils at election time.

These seemingly opposing parties, that are constantly bickering and appear to be unable to work together, are actually working together quite well (see Bi-partisan NDAA law). Between the two of them the common people are kept under control of either big business or big government.

The common people are reduced by each to be dependent on one of these two factions. They either become a commodity as labor on "free market" or a dependent of the "nanny state". Either way, our worth is diminished therefore no voice is given or heard.

Afterall, who listens to what their livestock has to say until they break down the fence?MMMMOOOOO!!!!!!

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Wed, Jan 18, 2012, at 9:57 AM

Wonder why

Why are your sources better than Quiet Mikes?

I know you say you attended the protests in Nashville, but there have been protests in a lot of Cities across the country.

Try the ones in Atlanta and Mobile Alabama, then come back with your observations.

-- Posted by Wolf Clan on Wed, Jan 18, 2012, at 3:51 PM

Mike, Occupy as we speak is in Washington having a OCCUPY CONGRESS, so they are doing what you asked.

Corporations are made up by a few to make a profit, the workers-people and do NOT represent the people just profit- Unions are hired by the people to represent the workers and to work with the companies they have to work together to succeed or they both lose. The leaders are elected by the workers ( companies hire the best person they can to represent a company the people are of no concern they are expendable) So the motives of the 2 are not the same. I do not think that either should be able to fund politicians. A corporation is not a person and neither is a union (even though it does at least represents people) The ONLY funding a politician should have should be from individuals, not groups, businesses, lobbyist or companies. Can you honestly believe the corporations would lobby to for our intrest if it cut their profits? Just like that pipeline, it is toxic sludge being piped over the largest fresh water supply in our country - you do not see corporations offering support the person who would put the health and saftey of people before their interested in the profits they would get? It's not like we have ever had spills that destroyed our land or waters (sarcasm). The best intrest and safety of the 99%, you know those like you and I will always be sold out if they are allowed to buy Washington the way they are.

Actually, Wolf I never said my sites were any better I just said he did not look at the other side of the issue, pointing out he was only being one sided with his information.If you notice I did mention the importance of not just looking to one side of any issue. I offered him the chance to have a better BALANCED idea of the movement and reasons to not judge too quickly "just because" we are told to.

I have tried to attend meetings in Flint Mi, and Ann Arbor but distance and timing is a problem. I would love to see the differences in their platforms. I respect their devotion and efforts, and think they have great intentions to do good. While there is bound to be those who are involved that do more harm than good - that is human nature you always have the trouble makers. The same went on with the Tea Party. All the more reason for us to look deeper into what we are feed by the media be it CNN, Msnbc, or even FOX. They all have agendas and sponsors that will take front seat to our needs.

Liveforlight I think you have nailed it very well. We are lost or perhaps forgotten in the middle. I have another possibility to consider - and that is that as far as the demise of our rights I think that is the one area the party leaders are working together more than any other. I think they intentionally keep us hooking horns and fighting so they can keep us distracted and slip thing like the bill you mentioned above into action. As long as we are fighting each other, they have the advantage. What about the Terrorist Summit they were holding today, I find it interesting they did that while Occupy was there to Occupy Congress. I doubt it was just a coincident that they happened to be going on at the same time. The summit was described- " a daylong discussion about how police can maintain the trust of their communities while identifying and preventing violent extremism and homegrown terrorism -- an effort the administration considers critical to national security." )Huffington post) It sets ground for them to stop any speech they can accuse of being a possible threat. And well that sure could be stretched to cover a lot of non threatening situations and used to shut down, not just terrorist but any protest they want to misrepresent and shut down.

When you step back from party politics, stop that tug of war and look at what has been going on while we are distracted we see that there has been - by both sides - way too many of our rights getting squeezed out. Patriot Act, NDAA, SOPA,PIPA ( some are still not passed I realize but the planning as message is there) Add things like the summit today and there is a lot to consider and beware of. I re-read this and sound a bit like Chicken Little ( the sky is falling) but we need to keep our eyes open, emotions in check and our backs covered. There is too much to lose, and if we lose it will not just be right or left it will be all...

Mike I looked for a central list, but like you could not find on. You did nail what seems to be the core that the different Occupy movements world wide share, I think they personalize them to their locations specific needs for their local governments and reach out from there.

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Wed, Jan 18, 2012, at 7:34 PM

So they've been protesting for months and they haven't been able to provide any concrete ideas of what they hope to accomplish????

Why bother?

-- Posted by quietmike on Wed, Jan 18, 2012, at 8:27 PM

The unrepentent rabble that make up the "Occupy" movement have trashed protest areas, destroyed property, committed rapes, murder and neglected children in their midst. Yeah...that's a group of individuals we should all support.

I'll stop now and wait for the "these were only isolated incidents comment" lol

-- Posted by Tim Lokey on Thu, Jan 19, 2012, at 12:51 AM

Mike you do not pay attention very well do you? You listed yourself the 3 base messages of the movement and then say they do not have anything. It shows that you work on bias devoid of any concern for truth. Your choice. Tim your comments are just crazy. The ones who need to repent are the police officers who are attacking the PEACEFUL protesters with clubs, pepper spray and violence.

YOu guys would elect the devil himself to feed your hate. It is a waste of time to try and have a real exchange of facts and information since truth and facts are not important to your agendas. You are so stuck on party that you would rather this country and our constitution destroyed.

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Thu, Jan 19, 2012, at 10:09 AM

A liberal talking about destroying the constitution....THAT'S RICH!!!

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jan 19, 2012, at 12:39 PM

Mike you do not care about the constitution, all you care about is the hate agenda of the right. If it came down to a choice you would throw it out and not blink an eye.

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Thu, Jan 19, 2012, at 2:50 PM

If I wanted to throw it out,all I'd have to do is vote democrat.

From obamacare to banning certain lightbulbs, you liberals have done a bang up job.

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jan 19, 2012, at 3:07 PM

Light bulbs oh my the world as we know it will end. :) You never cease to amuse......

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Thu, Jan 19, 2012, at 5:26 PM

The point, that I'm not surprised you missed, is that liberals trample on the constitution no matter how big or small the issue.

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jan 19, 2012, at 5:50 PM

AMERICA OCCUPIES THE CAPITAL | OccupyWallSt.org

occupywallst.org

‎#Occupy Brings Democracy to DC January 17 at 9 am Capitol Hill Washington, DC--On January 17 Americans from across the nation and the world will assemble in the shadows of a broken system to participate in real democracy.

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Thu, Jan 19, 2012, at 6:33 PM

Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) is listening to the common people and even stepping out to help them.

Kucinich Announces 'Game Changing' Constitutional Amendment to Publicly Finance Federal Elections |.

kucinich.house.gov

Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) has introduced H. J. Res. 100, a constitutional amendment to rescue American democracy from corporate money's corrupting influence.

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Thu, Jan 19, 2012, at 6:48 PM

Liberal Dennis "eat your spinach" Kucinich wants to use taxpayer money to fund elections.

Why can't liberals pay for anything themselves?

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jan 19, 2012, at 7:19 PM

Actually Mike it is the tax payers who should be funding the elections, not corporations that buy them. As usual you failed to read what your commenting on ! Here let me help you out a bit:

H.J. Res.100 would require that all federal campaigns --all campaigns for President, Vice-President, Senator and Representative -- be financed exclusively with public funds and prohibit any expenditures from any other source, including the candidate. H. J. Res. 100 would also prohibit any expenditures in support of, or in opposition to, any federal candidate, so that interest groups will not be able to influence elections. It will maintain the First Amendment "freedom of the press" and preserve the traditional role that the media have played in our electoral process.

"We must rescue American democracy from unlimited corporate money. This is the most fundamental issue facing the future of our nation. With corporate, private financing we have officials working for the interest of corporations. With public financing we have officials working for the public. And public financing will actually save taxpayers' money, by eliminating any incentive of public officials to reward campaign contributors with taxpayer subsidies.

"We must eliminate the influence of money on our elections and on our policy-making. We must eliminate the influence of special interests on our elections and on our legislation. We must eliminate the influence of multi-national corporations and foreign corporations on the government of our country. We cannot wait. We must fight for government of the people, by the people, for the people," said Kucinich.

http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentS...

dang Mikey, facts, sorry but you need to see them from time to time.

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Thu, Jan 19, 2012, at 9:36 PM

That is exactly what I said liberals wanting more taxpayer money. Just some envy thrown in to get the hysteria going.

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jan 19, 2012, at 9:57 PM

So you think it is better to have the corporations buy the loyalty of politicians than have the citizens/tax payers donations fund them ? Again you continue to amuse.

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Thu, Jan 19, 2012, at 10:02 PM

I think all the money should go anonymously into one fund and be dispersed equally to all the candidates regardless of party affiliation, or who donates.

Any candidate using one dime more than their alotment should be considered as trying to buy the election, stripped of their candidacy and forced to pay the alotment plus any extra money they spent back into the fund, and then be jailed for the term of the office they are seeking.

Then maybe we would see who can manage what they have been entrusted with the best.

I am not suprised, or fooled, at all by the media demonizing the Occupy group and the Tea Party. It's just the same old ruse designed to divide the people and silence the opposition.

It reminds me of watching professional wrestling. First all the shouting and finger pointing, then a spirited match in the ring, followed by the two wrestlers having a beer and dinner while they count the money and put the tickets on sale for the next show.

I can hear it now, In this corner, with 1 Billion dollars, the swinging socialist, Barack Hussein Obama!! And his challenger weighing in with 700 million, Mitt, the Mass. machine, Romney!!

You think it will really matter which one wins? The show must go on!!

The country is in bad shape because the crowd is morally and ethically depraved. We have lost touch with righteousness and justice! That is what we need in a leader.

But, the louder the crowd shouts the more money the wrestlers make. Maybe the "common" people are being heard after all.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Thu, Jan 19, 2012, at 10:52 PM

First charity, then healthcare, now elections, why not go whole hog and just make us completely socialist?

-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jan 19, 2012, at 10:54 PM

@ wonderwhy...Do you honestly believe that corporate America is going to go on a hiring spree when our government increases their taxes? This country was made great by capitalism. Businesses are created to make money. They are not created to develop a tax base for suppporting those who depend on the government for their every need. The very reason many businesses have fled this country in droves is that they are taxed to death here. You might notice that they took their millions of jobs with them. Ask any former Chalk Line, Stanley Tools or Eaton employee what political party cost them their jobs. No doubt, you manage your own finances with something called a budget. I seriously doubt if your household spends more money than it takes in. Yet you blindly support a political party that believes in this is sound fiscal policy. We absolutely have to cut spending in order to lower our debt. Unfortunately, some of those cuts are going to be by necessity, painful. One thing is certain however...Jimmy Carter will no longer be referred to as the worst President in our nations history.

-- Posted by Tim Lokey on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 4:05 PM

Taxed to death? Many of them do not pay any taxes and then get perks to boot. Look at Wal Mart, they make billions in profits, get tax breaks and then we the tax payers get the thrill of paying for the government assistance the employees are eligible for because the wages are so low. I guess "0" taxes just isn't low enough to stay, we have to supplement the wages of their employees too.

Answer this - if they continue to lower their wages - raise their prices - not pay any taxes - and we the workers have to continue to pay for all the perks and gimmies they get who will be able to afford to buy or use the products and services they are trying to sell? At some point their greed will make it impossible for them to run their businesses.

I do not "blindly" follow anyone. I am not so rigid that I can not see what is happening around me - the peoples wages go down as company profits go up, they get more and more tax breaks - so ours have to go up to make up the difference. Who do you expect to pay for the roads their trucks tear up? Who pays for the police and the fire protection they get? Someone has to. When they pay wages so low a person can not feed a family yet alone afford medical care who picks up the emergency room fees that are not paid ( remember Bush told people to go to the ER if they could not go to a doctor - someone has to pay it)

Have you ever once heard of a company that when it got a tax break actually passed it on in LOWER prices or higher wages? NO it goes to their profits and CEO bonuses, the workers and consumers are more likely to be charged higher prices and the wages lowered to cover the cost of accounts that have to add up the extra profit.

yes capitalism is important but it can not be allowed to run a muck with out checks and balances to keep them honest and to prevent them from abusing the very system that allows them to survive. They are raping the citizens and workers in this country, at some point their greed is going to eliminate the very demand that they need to survive.

Tell me this , where have you seen any of the tax breaks help lower wages or the price of products? Where do you see them adding jobs?

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 6:08 PM

The readers should be able to see the two sides(D & R) points being carried out here.

The free market is not compatible with socialism or taxation/legislation. Businesses are in business to make a profit. Increased taxation and legislation makes it harder to make a profit. So, the business moves to wherever they can make the most profit. It matters not if it is because of taxation, materials, legislation, or labor. It may be called greed or just seeking to please the investors with high returns. Of which, I am an investor. I try to invest my money where I will get the most return.

On other side of the equation are people who are willing to work but are stuck with being paid with whatever the free market will pay based on the going labor rate. Also on this side of the equation, people who are unable to work due to handicaps, people who will not work because they are lazy, and people who abuse the system frauduently. These can be considered as greedy as well. I am also in this group as I am paid what the market price is for my labor although the profit to my employer may be much more than what I make.

The fact is we are all human and all subject to being greedy.

The solution is not going to be found within government regulation, implemented by people given the power to act against us all with their own greed.

I will give two rules that will solve all these problems, both of which you have already heard and either accept or reject. The rest is just argument that is, and will be, fruitless.

The problems with this country are not economic or political. They are moral and ethical, neither of which can be legislated effectively. The political and economic issues are just the symptoms. The transition back where we should be will be painful because we are so far from it.

Here are the two rules;

1.)Love God more than anything.

2.)Love your neighbor as yourself.

These things are divine and cannot be legislated, they must be held in the hearts of the people. Then they will naturally be carried out by a government of, by, and for the people.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 7:34 PM

----------

If their greed prevents them from running their business, isn't that the free market working properly?

///////////

Who do you expect to pay for the roads their trucks tear up? Who pays for the police and the fire protection they get? Someone has to.

-- Posted by wonderwhy

-----------

Their truck use more fuel so they pay more fuel taxes, so they pay for more road construction. Police and Fire are paid with property taxes.

-- Posted by quietmike on Sat, Jan 21, 2012, at 10:16 PM

They claim all that fuel as a work expense and get it back at the end of the year - they claim their property tax as a deduction- (provided they have not had it already exempt or greatly reduced in one of their many "tax breaks") also and it is returned at the end of the year.... SO the property tax you refer to that and claim covers the extra expenses passed on to the public to cover the services they use in the community is again another way the tax payers take on the brunt of the expenses while they add to their "profit margin". They have you so brain washed it is funny, they have you arguing so you can pay the expenses they have so they can get richer.... again you amuse.

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Sun, Jan 22, 2012, at 12:06 AM

@ wonderwhy...Has a poor person ever given you a job? By the way, the Reagan administration proved that cutting taxes actually increases revenue because doing so leaves people with more money to invest and spend, therefore stimulating the economy.

-- Posted by Tim Lokey on Sun, Jan 22, 2012, at 12:22 AM

The poor have been voting democrat for decades.....and they're still poor.

The democrat senate have now went 1000 days without a budget.

60% of our federal budget goes toward liberal entitlements.

-- Posted by quietmike on Sun, Jan 22, 2012, at 3:55 AM

"The poor have been voting democrat for decades.....and they're still poor."

Sure (giggle,giggle) that's the problem, if they would only vote republican they could be rich , just like you..... again you amuse. I guess either poor republicans do not vote or let me guess there are no poor republicans..... Dang your funny.

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Sun, Jan 22, 2012, at 2:46 PM

Republicans teach personal responsibility. Democrats teach that nothing is your fault, and if you will only vote for them, they will punitively tax them and give the money to you.

I challenge you to show a democrat platform that does not rely on a victimized underclass.

-- Posted by quietmike on Sun, Jan 22, 2012, at 2:52 PM

Yep they teach the middle class and poor that is our job to make them richer!!!

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Sun, Jan 22, 2012, at 10:38 PM

Which party balks at any kind of entitlement reform, that would prevent us from subsidizing wal-mart?

My challenge still stands.

-- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Jan 23, 2012, at 2:30 AM

Guys!

The GOP had complete control of governemnt under Bush. Did anything change in regards to entitlements or the size and scope of government? (Except for getting worse)?

The DEMs have control under Obama. Has anything happened to reform big business from getting more money? (Except for getting worse)

What does that tell you?

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Mon, Jan 23, 2012, at 5:35 AM

The GOP did have control under Bush, but they were preoccupied with stopping the terrorist attacks that went unanswered for several years. It is worth noting that Republicans forced Clinton to sign welfare reform legislation in the mid-1990's.

-- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Jan 23, 2012, at 5:54 PM

There have been a few token efforts on both sides but nothing significantly different in the long run.

Both parties are moving us in the same direction. One claiming to help the poor by taxing the rich. The other claiming to help the poor by cutting taxes on everyone.

No matter who says what, no administration or congress has balanced the budget or reduced the national debt since Andrew Jackson. the are pulling together while tearing us apart.

You can't be FOR either side and be right based on each ones past records.

Most everyone would agree that it is not right to take money from one person through use of force (The Law) and give it to another, yet that is exactly what both parties do. Both claiming they are helping the people. What they are really doing is helping themselves.

They use the division in the people to gain support with convincing arguments that their policies will benefit each respective group. Each one then naturally votes for the one that offers the most perceived benefit to their particular situation.

Righteousness and justice in the law has been lost and replaced by "Plunder" by "The Law"

The law perverted! And the police powers of the state perverted along with it!The law, I say, not only turned from its proper purpose but made to

follow an entirely contrary purpose! The law become the weapon of every

kind of greed! Instead of checking crime, the law itself guilty of the evils it

is supposed to punish!

If this is true, it is a serious fact, and moral duty requires me to call the

attention of my fellow-citizens to it.

Read Frederic Bastiats "The Law". http://www.fee.org/pdf/books/The_Law.pdf

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Mon, Jan 23, 2012, at 9:09 PM