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HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE RISING AGAIN
Posted Thursday, August 9, 2007, at 9:45 PM<< Previous | Read comments | Respond | Email link | Next >>
This is not mine but an actual CNN news story.Read and respond and then I will respond back.
CNS Story: VATICAN-CHURCH Jul-10-2007 (920 words) xxxi Vatican congregation reaffirms truth, oneness of Catholic Church By John Thavis Catholic News Service VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- In a brief document, the Vatican's doctrinal congregation reaffirmed that the Catholic Church is the one, true church, even if elements of truth can be found in separated churches and communities. Touching an ecumenical sore point, the document said some of the separated Christian communities, such as Protestant communities, should not properly be called "churches" according to Catholic doctrine because of major differences over the ordained priesthood and the Eucharist. The Vatican released the text July 10. Titled "Responses to Some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church," it was signed by U.S. Cardinal William J. Levada, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and approved by Pope Benedict XVI before publication. In a cover letter, Cardinal Levada asked the world's bishops to do all they can to promote and present the document to the wider public. The text was the latest chapter in a long-simmering discussion on what the Second Vatican Council intended when it stated that the church founded by Christ "subsists in the Catholic Church," but that elements of "sanctification and truth" are found outside the Catholic Church's visible confines. The related discussion over the term "churches" surfaced publicly in 2000, when the doctrinal congregation -- then headed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict -- said the term "sister churches" was being misused in ecumenical dialogue. In a format of five questions and answers, the new document stated that Vatican II did not change Catholic doctrine on the church. It said use of the phrase "subsists in" was intended to show that all the elements instituted by Christ endure in the Catholic Church. The sanctifying elements that exist outside the structure of the Catholic Church can be used as instruments of salvation, but their value derives from the "fullness of grace and truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church," it said, quoting from Vatican II's "Decree on Ecumenism." The text said the Second Vatican Council used the term "church" in reference to Orthodox churches because, although separated from the Catholic Church, they have preserved apostolic succession, the ordained priesthood and the Eucharist. Nevertheless, they "lack something in their condition as particular churches" because they are not in union with the pope, it said. The Christian communities born out of the Reformation, on the other hand, do not enjoy apostolic succession -- the unbroken succession of bishops going back to St. Peter -- and therefore "cannot, according to Catholic doctrine, be called 'churches' in the proper sense," it said. In his cover letter, Cardinal Levada said the document came in response to critical reactions to the teaching of "Dominus Iesus," another doctrinal congregation document of 2000, which said the Catholic Church was necessary for salvation, and to ongoing confusion over interpretations of the phrase "subsists in." An authoritative commentary published July 10 in the Vatican newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, said the congregation had acted to protect the unity and uniqueness of the church. The document, the commentary said, took aim at the notion that the "church of Christ" was "the sum total of the churches or the ecclesial communities" or that it exists only as a future goal. "If this were the case, the church of Christ would not any longer exist in history, or would exist only in some ideal form emerging either through some future convergence or through the reunification of the diverse sister churches," it said. What Vatican II intended was to recognize ecclesial elements in non-Catholic communities, it said. "It does not follow that the identification of the church of Christ with the Catholic Church no longer holds, nor that outside the Catholic Church there is a complete absence of ecclesial elements, a 'churchless void,'" it said. The council's wording does not signify that the Catholic Church has ceased to regard itself as the one true church of Christ but that it recognizes that true ecclesial realities exist beyond its own visible boundaries, it said. Regarding the doctrinal congregation's insistence that communities originating from the Reformation are not churches, the article said: "Despite the fact that this teaching has created no little distress in the communities concerned and even among some Catholics, it is nevertheless difficult to see how the title of 'church' could possibly be attributed to them, given that they do not accept the theological notion of the church in the Catholic sense and that they lack elements considered essential to the Catholic Church." The commentary said that, at first glance, Catholic ecumenism might seem somewhat paradoxical, because it holds that the Catholic Church has the "fullness" of the means for salvation, but recognizes the value of elements in other churches. The Catholic Church's teaching, it said, is that the fullness of the church "already exists, but still has to grow in the brethren who are not yet in full communion with it and also in its own members who are sinners." U.S. Dominican Father J. Augustine Di Noia, undersecretary of the doctrinal congregation, said the document does not call into question Pope Benedict's pledge to work for ecumenical progress. "The church is not backtracking on its ecumenical commitment. But ... it is fundamental to any kind of dialogue that the participants are clear about their own identity," he told Vatican Radio. Father Di Noia said the document touches on a very important experiential point: that when people go into a Catholic church and participate in Mass, the sacraments and everything else that goes on there, they will find "everything that Christ intended the church to be." END Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
A man getting to the roots of his faith.
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And we care, why? Could you please explain the relevance of this..k?thnx
I'm guessing that the relevance of this to Michael is that he's not Catholic, therefore feels like he's being slighted by the Pope and the Church. Am I right, Michael?
"There are eighty-five main Christian denominations. These denominations make a distinction between Catholic Christians and Protestant Christians. There are 1,026,501,000 Roman Catholics and 316,445,000 ** Protestants in the world. Most Catholics are Roman Catholics; there are 60,018,436 ** in the United States. Protestants in the U.S. number 42,513,059 as of 1997. **
What is the second largest Christian denomination in the United States? The Baptist Church is the leader with 23,929,356 members. ** Next in numbers are the United Methodist Church and the Presbyterian Church.
Christian denominations are many and diverse. Some churches proclaim Christianity is the only true religion. Other churches emphasize that only their own denomination -- or, perhaps, denominations closely affiliated with them -- practice true Christianity. However, many denominations hold that all other Christian churches, in addition to their own, are also valid. Further, many Christians today state their recognition that religions outside of Christianity are also God-given and true."
It is astounding to me that over 1 billion of the Christians are in fact Roman Catholic while the other 316 million are divided into 84 OTHER DENOMINATIONS....(I'm not so sure God is happy that 85 different groups, representing "Him", have become so adament that THEY are right and the other is not...)
You posted the article, now tell us do you think Catholics are evil too? To me, if you do think that, you are excluding 3/4 of CHRISTIANS from getting to heaven...
I surely hope that isn't the case.
Til then :)
Heck, I hope so too...I'm Catholic. Although I'm betting that I really don't stand a great shot of making it anyway after being part of this evil war that our servicemen are continuing to wage...you never know though, stranger things have happened...I think ;)
According to michael god forgives everything... including the United States committing murder everyday in a country that never attacked us, never had the chance to, and was a threat to our oil...
If so, I'm not sure why he still writes blogs about everything ranging from muslims, pedophilia, homosexuality, catholics, barry bonds, dad's not being the way he thinks they should be, among many many countless dislikes... I think he has turned more people away from his ideal of god and left them seeking something totally opposite. Apparently god forgives blind faith, misleading people on "his word" and telling everyone who HE thinks are going to heaven...
His friend said it, "Those aren't Michael's opinions he has the same opinions as God"...
I've never met someone so perfect as he!
I think this is another blog to divert attention from his other ones because more people have stepped up to debate him and this is his way of avoiding it. All of his opposition on the other blogs have faith as well, but faith alone will leave you knockin on heaven's door instead of answering from the other side!
My three best friends are Catholic thank you. Just because the Vatican issued this decree doesn't mean that all Catholics agree with it.That is the point I was making. People interpret the bible the way they want to [including me and they base their life on it. The pope will do more damage with this that acceptance of all denomination's. You are right just as many pedophiles are priest and straight people ,it just goes to show you what kind of sick world we live in ,so sick that God isn't going to stand for it much longer. So if I am not acting the way the way a Christian should you tell me how one should act and what we should condone or not condone then tell me who is going to Heaven or Hell!
All in all, when it comes to writing a blog about religion, no matter what you believe in, you are going to have people that constantly slander at your opinions and beliefs. This is the way it's always been, since the day of Jesus Christ. Heck, you could even write a blog like the one here, and people will still jump on that horse to ride down and attack at you. This isn't a public blog at all, it's nothing more than another reason for people to find something to argue about, and continuing arguing until someone gets the last world. People aren't going to change their beliefs, so others should just stop trying. It's one idea to express your belief to someone and a completely different idea to shove your opinion down someone's throat using 73 comments.
*typo-world=word
Actually I'm pretty sure that the Pope was referring to the fact that the Catholic Church is the only one that can trace their roots back to one of the Apostles (Peter, also known as Simon). Although there are numerous off-shoots of the Catholic Church, Protestants, none of them were originated by one of Christ's Apostles. Also, while journeying along with His Apostles, Jesus asks them: "Whom do men say that the Son of man is?" The Apostles answered: "Some John the Baptist, and other some Elias, and others Jeremias, or one of the prophets". Jesus said to them: "But whom do you say that I am?" Simon said: "Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God". And Jesus answering said to him: "Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. And I say to thee: That thou art Peter [Kipha, a rock], and upon this rock [Kipha] I will build my church [ekklesian], and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven". Thus Peter was the first Pope.
A christian should not blatantly ignore certains scriptures while putting forth other ones to prover their points...
And if you don't want 73 comments then don't start a blog with baseless opinions, and essentially call homosexuals pedaphiles... The reason there are 73 comments, probably more now, is b/c if faith alone is all you got, then people are going to ask why isn't that all Jesus had?
It's the pot calling the kettle black and stepping on toes is just something that's going to happen dear! It's simple, these blog are a good way to voice OPINIONS, but an opinion doesn't stand a chance against credible, undisputable factual evidence. And until he or you can provide the single first shred that any of your scriptures pretain to TODAY, and then actually READ THE ENTIRE BOOK (i.e., instead of quoting a view verses from leviticus, read the whole thing)...
If you feel the need to find those scriptures to prove your points, don't get upset or in any way alarmed when someone else SHOWS YOU the multitiude of contradictions and explains to you the TIME, and to WHOM some of the scriptures were written...
And until Christ was sent to earth there was no such thing as "Christianity" and since CHRIST didn't mention many of the things you preach against, that is why you get asked questions...
Faith is a good thing, I think everyone has told you both that... BUT when evidence and a multitude of OTHER scriptures make yours completely void, you're going to get asked questions, and you are going to evoke responses from those who agree and those who disagree.
Oh, and it's not "sick" when two people, even though they may be of the same sex, love one another... Because that, in NO way affects your life. And as far as what we should condone and what we shouldn't condone that's not your decision, nor mine. I along with millions of other's have FAITH that God wouldn't deny anyone from his kingdom as long as they know Jesus as their savior, and they love thy neighbor... (and the single fact the you equated pedaphiles with homosexuals is disturbing and shows exactly your scope of reality.)
Sometimes it pays to get your head out of the Bible and be a disciple for God.
Preach love, acceptance of differences, magnify mercy, hope, and the good things God taught you. God has taught me MUCH MUCH more than to soley rely on faith and to slander others who have facts to invalidate every argument I had. I think if you found genuine evidence (and the Bible is not) to prove some of your rhetoric, then maybe you prove some people wrong. But I don't think the T-G is complaing that their site has probably had more than 100 hits a day.... from bloggers alone!
People argue with ignorance and stand against intolerance and hate because history has taught MANY of us a lesson. Those who don't stand up to these things end up being brainwashed and tortured like Saddam's people, the Jews, and all people who are suppressed by powerful people using some form of the Bible to preach their hate...Both Saddam and Hitler used the Bible to preach their hate and unnacceptance of others!!! That is exactly what Bush is doing too. So learn to question everything you've been told to believe, because god gave YOU a brain to learn on your own, it's ashamed you are wasting it.
As for the entire Catholic church not agreeing with the Pope, that is obvious, just like not all Christians agree with you!
And weezie84 you can NOT be a christian if you don't believe Jesus was the Messiah, and you believe he was the LORD!
"Christians believe that, as the Messiah, Jesus was anointed as ruler and savior of humanity, and hold that Jesus' coming was the fulfilment of messianic prophecies of the Old Testament. The Christian concept of the Messiah differs significantly from the contemporary Jewish concept.[12] The core Christian belief is that, through the death and resurrection of Jesus, sinful humans are reconciled to God and thereby attain salvation and the promise of eternal life."
"Most Christians believe the Holy Spirit inspired the Scriptures" - Think about it, He could have inspired me to write PRO GAY MESSAGES, but since I wasn't around when these humans were writing it, it's not in there.. THEREFORE HUMANS WROTE IT, inspired by god, not TOLD BY GOD.....!!!!
LOL, Thom since you are staying on topic, YES.. i definitely agree with you.
Peter was indeed the beginning of the Catholic Church... (now, the largest denomination within the Christian realm)
jesuslovesevery1 - I was actually being sarcastic when I made the comment about the "evil war". I stand behind what I did for my country and the men and women that are there now defending freedom (maybe not ours, but that of the Iraqi people). Whatever the reason for the U.S.A. going in, SOMETHING needed to happen there and it was about time we stepped up to the plate. Ok, I'm done with that since this is really not on the topic of this blog. I apologize for bringing it up in my post in a sarcastic manner so that someone else could use that to further their left-wing agenda. ;)
All in all, when it comes to writing a blog about religion, no matter what you believe in, you are going to have people that constantly slander at your opinions and beliefs. This is the way it's always been, since the day of Jesus Christ. Heck, you could even write a blog like the one here, and people will still jump on that horse to ride down and attack at you. This isn't a public blog at all, it's nothing more than another reason for people to find something to argue about, and continuing arguing until someone gets the last world. People aren't going to change their beliefs, so others should just stop trying. It's one idea to express your belief to someone and a completely different idea to shove your opinion down someone's throat using 73 comments.
What was the need for the repost Weezie?
People like you aren't doing a bit of good continuing arguing with Micheal, because although I don't know him, and do not agree with him entirely on the subject of the bible and religion, he isn't going to change his opinion, just like I won't change the opinions I've got made up in my mind. Maybe if I repost it enough, someone will get the picture.
Well it didn't work!
Nobody cares if you change your opinion
Nobody is trying to change your views.
Just as it will take more than a few scriptures pulled out of context out of a book that was originally written 1000's of years ago and rewritten by MEN and opinions of narrow-minded individuals to change mine...so my dear you too are not only wasting your time but mine also!
Exactly
Umm, is it just me, or are you actually arguing the same point? "People have opinions, deal with it" seems to be the gist of the posts from weezie84, nascarfanatic, and dianatn. As far as the Iraq situation goes, I believe in what we were and are doing there. But that, as I have stated before, is not the topic of this blog. I guarantee you that the whole situation in Iraq will be revisited in another blog. I'll refer to that more in that one.
Hmmmm.....awfully curious as to why comments made AGAINST the war were deleted. I read this just the other day and found that particular comment interesting and today it is now gone. ARE YOU TAKING AWAY THE FIRST ADMENDMENT??? I would like an explanation for this because if you are going to censor then I am going to make sure that Michael Bell is gone for pushing "religion" on a COMMUNITY PAPER SITE!!!!
As I responded to Vindicated over at my blog site, the comment in question was deleted, not because of politics, but because it contained a sexual vulgarity which one of our readers flagged as inappropriate. Michael was not involved in this at all; it was completely my decision. I e-mailed the commenter about what I had done and why, and the commenter was completely free to post the same or similar remarks without the sexual reference.