I really don't see the uproar on having legislation to prevent hate crimes . . . I don't think it really is a stamp of approval on any lifestyle, it just basically emphasizes the fact that violent acts toward another person should not be tolerated and to also make sure that some people don't pass over the crime just because they believe the person deserved it since they were living a certain lifestyle (and many people would react that way).

This law wouldn't change anything about what you "preach" in church unless you are preaching for people to go out and lynch certain groups of people or treat them with hate. I think so many Christians need to spend more time on self reflection than passing judgment on others. The best way to set an example of Christian beliefs is to be a role model yourself. I guess it's easier though to point fingers at others and state their faults than to look at your own. That would be like an overweight person condemning a gay individual . . . gluttony is a sin also so what makes that person better than the gay individual? Nothing . . . we are all sinners. Do you have to accept their sin? No, but that gives you no right to treat them differently or abuse them. Only God has the right and power to decide who is worthy and who is not in the afterlife.

While sterotype the hate crimes just call them crimes and be done with it

Because it is against what the what I believe. Look how long it took for racism to stop[which it has not completely] even womens rights sometime get questioned . People can't expect something which has been kept in the closet for years to just be taboo one day then OK the next.

That is what I don't understand . . what gives anyone the right to push their religious beliefs on to someone else? I understand having morals and beliefs and standing by them but that is for you and in the context of your own life . . . when you start infringing on someone else's right by pushing your beliefs and religion on to them and telling them how to live then it becomes another story. Now, I know you will say that homosexuals having the same rights as you will infringe on your rights and beliefs. How is that so? Are you being forced to become gay yourself and believe everything they believe? No, you are not so how does that matter? Gluttony is a sin but I don't see church members running out and telling fat people they can't get married or have insurance and the like and that is more of a lifestyle choice than being gay is. I just can't fathom the hysteria that people have about it. I could care less what others do in their own house because I have my own house to worry about and God is able to see everything.

Michael, since you apparently have absolutely ZERO knowledge on what a hate crime is considered,let me educate you just a little...

Hate crimes occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group, usually defined by race, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation. Hate crimes differ from conventional crime because they are not directed simply at an individual, but are meant to cause fear and intimidation in an entire group or class of people.

HATE CRIMES ARE TARGETED TOWARD ONE CLASS OF PEOPLE BASED ON WHO OR WHAT THEY ARE. Let's say people just started intimidate and causing fear in Christians and then started beating them up, out of hate toward your specific community, wouldn't you want this to be prosecuted severly as a HATE crime, not a simple battery/assault charge?

It's not the same as the local thug/drug abuser that decides to do a petty theft at the local convenience store or someone committing a crime. Not all crimes are Hate crimes. It's only when it is certain groups that are targeted (and you don't have to tell me which group you favorably target).

And passing hate crime legislation has nothing to do with what you preach unless your preacher is telling you to go out and harass,intimidate,beat up or possibly murder someone different than yourselves.

ONCE AGAIN, IT'S PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT TURN OTHERS OFF TO RELIGION AND FAITH...

There are people who want to deny insurance to the gluttons,the slothful.voluntary addicts,bad drivers and other sinners who self-inflict a lot of their problems.

There are people who would like children to be taught that exploiting animals for fur,meat and leather is wrong.

Should those views be backed by our institutions the same way as "Be kind","Don't steal","Don't Lie" and "Don't murder"?

(I'm not saying yay or nay-just ponder it a bit.)

As for the hate crime issue,I am reminded of an idea some folks had about 25 years ago to make sex crimes just "assault".

They thought that making rape or child sexual abuse,etc. *different* colored the issues too much and the heightened feelings made the crimes harder to acknowledge and prosecute.

They figured that labeling the behavior as if it were no different from a brawl or mugging would stop a lot of false accusations and take away a lot of the shame and stigma that kept real victims from coming forward.

The problem with that idea is that a lot of the public thought those attacks WERE different.

They thought burning a flag in the street or a cross in someone's yard was different.

A Nazi-type swastika on the door of a synogogue isn't just tagging.

Torturing a helpless animal IS different.

Special designations like that of hate crime exist because that one extra level of evil ups the ante.

It signals that the perpetrator has an extra layer of pathology.

Is saying one type of person isn't more of a victim than another the same as saying they deserve less recognition of their suffering?

Is it saying that their being singled out isn't a red flag warning of a doubly dangerous assailant?

Quite frankly,I'd prefer we give harsher treatment to people who kill cops,bilk the poor,elderly and mentally challenged and select any person out for extra harm just because they aren't considered fit to be treated decently.

The people who target individual victims for their sex,age,creed,race,nationality or species are as much terrorists as the people who do harm to groups like cities or countries.

They aren't just damaging people and property.

They are trying to cause fear,gain power over their victtim and assert their superiority.

It doesn't matter who the victims are or how many.

Unless it is made clear that no one, for any reason, can be ill-treated by any person,group or institution,then the warped minds out there will seek any implication,any loophole that would encourage them to turn their sick ideas into spite-filled action.

An admission that even those we don't approve of should be treated well is a start.

Declaring that we'll be kind, not just because of who the other person is ,but because of who WE are is another step.

Surely,insisting on the affirmative that all sex should be mutual,consensual,safe,responsible and committed is better than singling out specific aberrations as making those involved with them sub-human.

I'd think a sermon that stressed what should be done and why (rather than demonizing those who aren't conforming to those standards) would be less apt to call out the censors and still be uncompromising in spelling out right and wrong.

Again,if we all agree on using a little sense and making it clear that none of us will condone cruelty,then no groups of "good guys" should be at cross purposes.

I'm sure there are mamas out there who think a little thing like being the only begotten Son of God /Messiah doesn't absolve a Person of having to give all pertinent adults a copy of His itinerary and not leaving their sides without a cadre of warrior angels and a platoon of S.H.I.E.L.D. agents.

"I don't care WHOSE business you're on. There are kings killing little boys out there. One of you members of the Godhead could have sent word so we wouldn't worry..."

So,if even Christ could be found wanting by folks who would feel perfectly entitled to their critique,what chance do the rest of us have?

We'll all be thought imperfect in Man's eyes and we'll all be KNOWN to be imperfect in God's eyes.

He won't ask what were the prevailing human standards.

He'll ask whether we wanted to fulfill His design for our lives and whether we gave Him leave to let His strength and wisdom pick up where ours left off.

my thought also--I don't know whether to comment because I'm not sure if my thoughts have already been stated.

not to be blasphemous, but I'm glad I don't attend Michael Bell's church.

To answer the comment on attending "my church" homosexuals will be and are welcome and they will hear the word , if they repent and turn from their "wicked ways" they will be called brother and sister, if not they will still get prayed for regardless.

michaelbell,

Have you turned from your wicked ways? Are you still fat? Isn't gluttony a sin? How about Hypocrisy? Is that a sin?If you continue on your path you are just leading the sheep to the slaughter.

Christ didn't die for the gay man or woman also? Just for you?

You have serious problems.

I sin because in the flesh it is impossible noty to. There is 613 of God's laws nobody can keep all of them .

Then Christ put more emphasis on the evil thoughts that we have.

I t is only by my faith and the grace of God and the death of Jesus that I am saved.

Even if I was secular or even not I Christian I still would oppose gay rights because it is not natural. For 2 of the same sex to do what a man and woman does.

I have not seen it in nature unless man forces the animals to do it.

Michael,

If the 613 laws are referring to the Old Testament then you are behind the times and misinformed. Because when Christ died those old laws are forfeited. Do you still sacrifice the best of your livestock on the holy day? Do you not understand the hypocrisy you are portraying to others?

Do you understand that your "wisdom" is disturbingly false?

You said You sin because in the flesh it is impossible not to sin. Not true, you can make the choice whether to lust after a woman or not. You can make the choice whether to read the calories on the package or not. And if I want to stab the guy sitting in front of me or just let him live another day. These are all sins and I chose not to do them. It is pretty simple.

Not sure what you meant about the Christ evil thought emphasis crap. Doesn't make sense to me, I have a conscience and I use that to determine what is right or wrong.

Your faith, grace of god and death of jesus has nothing to do with you being saved. Christ said, live as I have, and believe in me. On the cross, to the criminal next to him, he said, you will be with me in paradise... he wasn't "saved" yet he is going to be in paradise.. Not sure where you get your information from, but its a very unreliable source.

As for being gay is not natural, well you know that is funny, cause I didn't think it was natural either and honestly I don't understand why a man would like the same sex. BUT, I do feel that it is natural for some people and animals, for instance my chihuahua was humping my Shihtzu just last night. Both are males. My kids yell at the dogs to stop and I have to do the "dog whisperer SHH!" at them to stop (good show, very informative). So I really think you might be wrong about that too.

It's very hard to read some of the blog posts you make because they are so close to facism it is almost scary. You do understand why religion should not play any role in politics right? No, I guess it wouldn't make much sense to you right now since you are a very short term focus of the present day. But if a highly religious person got into a high level office, it could pose a threat to entire class of people and it wouldn't stop at that class. Because after that class is eradicated, there will be another threat, and it won't stop there either. (see Anti-Christ)

You feel that your right, but I pity you because you are so shaky in your faith that you need to continually reassure yourself on messageboards to feel right about it. I feel you are doing a disservice to yourself and others with your weak faith, hypocritical thinking and lack of pertinent information.

Passing hate crimes legislation will only serve to give special status to limited groups of individuals who have been crying for years that they aren't treated equally. If I were to harm or kill a black person, a gay person, a hispanic person and a white person, there is a pretty darn good chance that I hated, or at the very least disliked all four of them. Now just exactly how is the court going to prove intent or thought? Out of the four hypothetical incidents, which one or more deserves the label "hate crime", thereby deserving of harsher punishment? We are as a nation, headed down a very slippery slope, and we won't like what we find when we hit bottom. The recent "Jena Six" controversy involved a group of black students who seriously beat a lone white student for no other reason than that he was white. These thugs were not charged with any sort of "hate crime", even though their motives were blatantly obvious. The reason, (according to Jesse and Al) is that apparently only whites are capable of committing hate crimes. The same type of thing is happening in other areas, for instance, Don Imus was fired for using "hate speech" regarding the "Nappy Headed Hos" comment directed towards a group black female basketball players, and I don't disagree with his firing. What he said was wrong, period. However rap artists like Snoop Dog, Fifty Cent, and others are making millions mouthing those same, (or even worse) derogatory comments every day, and no one is asking for their head on a platter. (Not even Jesse and Al) Again, according to the politically correct crowd and the liberally biased media, only whites are capable of hate speech. Everybody else gets a free pass.

Mr. Bell, may I applaud you? I have no idea what church you preach at, but if I were not already attending a church, I would consider yours. I also am glad that they did not pass the latest hate crime bill. Like Jesus you are being persecuted for your beliefs. But the same laws that give all the people on your blog to critize you, is the same law that gives you the right to give your opinion. It is sad that all the Baptist who are putting you down, do not take the time to wonder if maybe they are the ones who have been taught wrong. Maybe that strict southern Baptist should try telling people at her church that they are gay. I can assure you they would not be allowed to come back.

To make preaching against gays a hate crime would be another point for satan. You are correct when you say we all sin everyday. And that because of the blood that Jesus shed for us covers our sins. I to will continue to speak out against the wrongs in life. Never have I saw where you said you hate any of these people. Only that you would continue to preach God's word. An old saying says,"there are going to be a lot of good people in hell." And that is so true. While one minister in our town invites people to his non-religious church, I wonder if he only preachers what they want or if he preaches the Word as it is. So Mr. Bell keep up doing the work of the Lord. And as for the person who is hung up on fat people and gluttony being a sin, he's right, but he must have a thing against fat people or he wouldn't keep bringing it up. A bill against hate crimes against gays is just plain stupid. Thanks Mr. Bell for your honest views on life and religion.

Why is a bill against hate crimes stupid? If I kick your butt literally b/c you are a Christian would you not want to consider that a hate crime? What if I say "you have no idea how wrong you are for believing the way you do, I hope you burn in hell."? That is the only reason I'm beating you about the head and neck. Is that not a hate crime?

It's ok that you disagree with the lifestyle, it's not for me either, but you can't say that these people don't deserve equal justice. If that is what you are implying I am afraid you are in the wrong country.

And as for the person who is hung up on fat people and gluttony being a sin, he's right, but he must have a thing against fat people or he wouldn't keep bringing it up.

-- Posted by CharlotteGail on Tue, Dec 11, 2007, at 8:22 AM

WAIT.....hold on just a minute, I belive you have struck gold here. Can we not dislike fat people? Can we not dislike fat people and deny them rights? Afterall, they ARE fat. That is NOT a good example to set for our children and Jesus made it pretty clear that gluttons were not his "kind". I think it's only fair. Yes, that's it, let's start a ban against the marriages of fat people to other fat people!

Oh, and then we'll beat them up b/c they are fat!

You won't find anywhere that I said that I "hated any group of people , anybody is welcome at out church, but if you are doing something the bible says not to do like "shacking up or sex before marriage or witchcraft or being a homosexual or any other sin."

It will be called sin , whether you give it up or not that is up to you.

There is nobody sinless, that is why I go to church to let the Holy Ghost lead me to perfection not in the world's sense of being perfect but complete in God's sense.

The ones that are in denial and say that they don't need a savior are the ones that I fear for, those who claim to follow Christ and say that you can do whatever , whenever to whoever and not to feel guilty , the ones who say there is no right or wrong or just to do it which comes from the one doctrine that Christ said he hated.

The core of my faith is that Jesus was born of a virgin was baptized by John to take away the sins of the world died on the cross to pay for those sins , rose on the third day to be on the right hand of the father to be my advocate till I come home.

All the rest is man's interpretation of what Christian's should do or be like how to baptize or the songs you sing or whether you perform the "gifts" of the Holy Spirit or not.

All that does not matter one iota what matters is the churches who have gotten away from this and preach that "gay is OK and ordain them as priest and bishops and nuns or whatever the people of the cloth caught in sex- scandals finance scandals and all other kind of garbage that defile the name of Jesus and the ones who worship him.

These so called men of God are the problem they have quit preaching that sin is sin and the repercussions for it which is Hell.

We may all be right in heart as far as Jesus and the bible goes but the minds are way off.

The Bible says for a man to lie with a man is wrong the same for two women and I stand by that.

Romans 1- 27 -28 says that God gave them over to a reprobate mind and given their due penalty.

Some of these Pastors of today need to go old school to Jerry Falwell or John Hagee or Jack Van Impe or Perry Stone and Rod Parsley for some correction in their sermons.

These men of God tell it like it is and Jerry Falwell did till the day God Took him home.

When I start preaching in a public forum I will be the same way until then I will do it here and on other websites where I have blogs or columns.

America needs to heed the verse in 2Chronicles 7-14.

And if my people which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked way; then I will hear from Heaven, and forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

All it takes is being humble and prayer and seeking God's face and Turning from their evil ways and then you are given forgiveness I have done this , have you?

Well, seems as though Michael has a diet all figured out to turn from his wicked ways! Right Michael? Or do you still get to over eat knowingly?

Darrick, he sees the point we are making, he is just trying to figure out every way in the world not to address it. The old "gay diversion". Ok, so it's not old I just made it up but same difference.

Id rather be in a room full of gay people than that straight white family I saw at Food Lion the other night. The adult DAD I GUESS was sitting in a van, door open txting on the phone while a child about 12 yrs. old put oil in the van and threw the empty containers on the ground for someone else to pick up! Trash can right behind the van, they pulled up at the door in the fire lane! Give me a break.... that kind of crap urks me!

Loving of Jesus to the point of losing a grip on reality and focusing on issues the christian community should seperate themselves from is NOT Christian.

I do not want any religiously motivated quack-job in any kind of political office, everything that is good, declines. Morality, security, employment, education, technological advances in manufacturing. Just look at our country in the past 6 years.

Is Europe having these problems? no. Canada? no. Mexico? no. All of these mentioned countries and territories are thriving because religious organization keep their paws out of it.

Do you have any objective basis to substantiate that "all" these thing are better in these countries and if so that it is because of religious involvement in our government. Just wondering?

Historically inaccurate analogy and unrelated to current events. The upheaval during this period had little to to with religion and was mostly due to barbarian invasions and it took a few hundred years to civilize and convert them. After they were all saved we moved on to the Enlightenment and the Renaissance :).

Are you daft? My original question, "Do you have any objective basis to substantiate that "all" these thing are better in these countries and if so that it is because of religious involvement in our government. Just wondering?". Your statement was about current events and therefore is not answered by dragging out a reference to the Dark Ages.I don't care whether you answer the question or not. I do object to using generalities to make a point. If you had said the invasion of Iraq was like the Crusades I would at least have had to think about it. At least I am glad you've upgraded the Bible to historically correct.

Evil Monkey: "Never said the Bible was historically correct, nice way to twist my words. Your vision of generalities seems to only be allowed if it has to do with your view, but if someone else's view then there is a problem?"

(Hey, if you give me an opening I'm gonna use it.)

Evil Monkey: "You stated that after the barbarian hordes were saved, thats when the day the Dark ages ended? Um, No The barbarian hordes were defeated by the Romans WAY before the Dark Ages. The were "converted" to fight for the Romans and they were given land in exchange for it. When the Roman empire collapsed, the dark ages followed shortly after... hmm wonder what the cause was? Could it be organized religion?"

(I said that about the barbarians somewhat tongue-in-cheek that's why I put the emoticon at the end. Was that the wrong one to use? However, it was pretty accurate. The second wave of barbarian invasions was what collapsed the Roman Empire along with a lot of internal problems. Organized religion was not the cause of the collapse but probably did help hold things together until all the opposing cultures became integrated.)

Evil Monkey: "I take it the Inquisition wasn't religiously motivated? (It was) Crusades wasn't religiously Motivated? (They were)What about the Witch hunts in Salem? (They were) What about the Iraqi Invasion? (I thought that was about oil, or was it democracy, or terrorism?) [What about gay marriage? What about abortion?] (The opposition to each has a religious component but opposed by some on other grounds) What about Life on other planets? (At this time that's Science Fiction) What about evolution? (Some science some fiction.) What about "in God we trust"? (I do) What about prayer in school?" (I would)

Evil Monkey: "If you call my generalizations as "objectional" material, then no matter what I say, No matter how I say it, then it will never be an answer in your "objectionable" opinion. That being said, I know people like you like to play the game of Holy Defender with your superior intellectual prowess of He said/she said; but the proof is EVERYWHERE!"

(EVERYWHERE but HERE. This started out with a simple question about the basis for you assertions. I thought maybe you had some data to back this up. I would be interested to find out and I certainly don't have the resources to make a case to the contrary so it looks like we agree to disagree. To an extent I think you are right. When religion gets involved in politics, or vice versa, both suffer.

non-believers or maybe you are being sarcastic? Maybe we are more Christ-like? How do you know how Jesus was? Did you meet him? Doubt it.

You know, this disturbs me. Mr. Bell is not being persecuted, he is merely being corrected. How is alot of good people going to hell? Never once in the bible does it say anyone is going to hell. If you mean the fiery pit analogy? Puuulleeaassee... Where is this you are talking about? The Bible makes no mention of any of this. It seems this Word is some mysterious voice that makes you state any wacked-out fundamentalist spews of oppression and falsehood you feel is warranted??

We are supposed to witness and spread the word of God, I dont want anyones blood on my hands!

-- Posted by Disgusted on Wed, Dec 19, 2007, at 9:19 AM

Yet, in another blog you mentioned how you had been a jackass is pop-a-top on more than one occasion. Being a christian doesn't mean selectively choosing to spread the word of god whenever you feel like it, it means all the time and in every situation possible. Most of the people you call "non-believers" aren't non-believers, they just don't believe just like you.

Because the same people that tells kids Jesus is real, tells them that Santa Claus is real. hMM..... It's no wonder!

FYI- I dont selectively choose and don't assume you know what I do! I as well as my husband have discussed religion with people in bars on several occasions. Pop-A-Top and the Moose Lodge both do alot of good for our community. There are alot more people more Christian like there than on some of these blogs!

Michael, I agree with you! I also believe in the age of accountability for children as well!

Revelaton 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

This great multitude is in addition to the 144,000 so our chances might be better - don't bet the farm.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

This is where John's vision started so I am thinking it is in Heaven. At least is seems to be the same place where the 144,000 are.