The Bottom of the Barrel

Get over it.

It might all come into law and be accepted by some , but I am entitled to my opinion and I will give if you get offended by that well that is just tough* I was going to add more to the word tough , but I am better than that so you can get over it.

At least my opinion is being voiced.

I will not be the pansy that some Christians can be.

I will not be the pansy that some Christians can be.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 5:21 PM

Pansy huh? Because they don't want to be judgemental and equate the fall of empires to transgendered people? Perhaps they are just a bit wiser and learn to make some sense before they speak.

AMEN! Michael feels it is his place to again place to play God's role and judge people.

So far I have notice one pattern, Michael and most Republicans are so hell bent on taking away rights from people who DON'T EVEN HAVE ANY, rather than being true Christians and living, communicating, and respecting every person from all walks of faith.

What Michael's lovely "Christian" article forgets to make important is that the majority of transgendered people were born with either both sex hormones, and had to make a choice, or every feature about them resembled one sex except the "plumbing"... I wonder who made those people in his image, God? Yet, Michael says it's his right to deny them everything including respect.

Darrick_04, you also made an excellent point - I forgot to say that in my last blog. ~Phoenix

Mr. Bell,

How can you possibly say that empires have fallen due to people who want to be male of female? I want you to explain to me - with accurate, credible sources - how other empires have fallen due to people being born the wrong gender or being born asexually.

Also, I PRAY that America is not an empire. The moment we are...well, it's to Australia or England with me. Just because in your eyes were are an empire and should have religion everywhere does not mean everyone agrees (and with those conditions, wouldn't we be the fourth reich?).

(In my eyes, there was only one Empire in the universe - a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, and Darth Vader was second in command.)

Can we start a fund for him? I'll put in some money for that!

Sorry, Michael, I must have missed when you were given the right to judge. Do I personall agree with being gay or transgender? No, but I can only imagine for some of these people how hard it is to deal with. Many have committed suicide because they do not like feeling attracted to the same sex, or uncomfortable in their own bodies. I know some do it because they want to experiment. That is between them and God. I understand it is right to stand up for what you believe in , but not to judge others who differ. have you just tried to show people what God's love can do? Your are just as guilty for hateful thoughts and actions as those who sin in other ways. Who would want to try and even find out about god's love when all they see from you is hate and wrath?

As far as gays being together, if God intended this he would have made it where both sexes could have children. It takes one man and one woman ,just like God intended for marriage. He made Adam. He did not want Adam to be alone so he made out of him woman. Woman is for the man. That's why when you are married you are as "one". Works together like a puzzle! When you look from the front you do not piece together. Not natural, and we all know the back is intended for other things. Now that I've said more than I should I'm going to stop.

-- Posted by Annette 5 on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:55 PM

I guess God had the same thing in mind when millions of women who got married to men couldn't reproduce... We've been through this time and time again. You need to do your research. The last sentence sums up your knowledge of the situation.

Where did aids come from? When men started putting things places they shouldn't. There's always punishment for our actions.

I guess God had the same thing in mind when millions of women who got married to men couldn't reproduce...

The point is men no matter what they do can not sleep with another man and have a child.

For whatever reason a woman cannot have a child, the possibility is there. Not with men.

-- Posted by Annette 5 on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:08 PM

AIDS DID NOT COME FROM GAY MEN..... IT'S CALLED RESEARCH!!!! Do NOT play that card. You seriously need to look into your misguided soul and see if what you've been taught to believe is anything more than B/S.

It's always lovely to name AIDS as your reason for disliking Gay people... So what about the millions of children who suffer EVERYDAY? Do you know how often a child falls victims to AIDS? Every 14 seconds. The U.S.A has one of the lowest amount of cases of AIDS/HIV, the same goes for France, Italy, England, etc and everyone of those have a large gay population. It stems from a completely different continent.

So what, not everybody who gets married NEED children. God's original purpose was for humans to multiply on his earth. Now we are reaching a unheard of 7 BILLION people. Did you ever think that God has a creative way of Population control? Or does your mind have such a narrow view of things, that you can't consider it?

Who says the only reason a person can be with another person is for sex? Who says that the only reason a person can love another is for a child? There are plenty of married heterosexual couples who do not have sex and do not have children but love each other very much. There are homosexual men/or women who are together because they care about and love each other. What sex they have is really none of anyone's business. Sex is and should be a private thing. Why God made us the way we are is a mystery that can only be solved once we talk with him face to face. I can only feel that his is sad to see such judgment on the very thing he loves so much -- his people. Each and every one of us. Love is a peculiar thing, it captures us when we least expect it and with someone we may not think it could happen to. Why should homosexuals not get married? How could it possibly affect heterosexual marriages? It can't. It is a fear tactic that those who have nothing better to do but pick on those they don't understand and feel "superior" because they aren't like "them." Grow up. It's time We humans realize that each of us are individuals and have differences and enjoy the variety. If you are a woman and want a man, great, another woman, if that is your thing, men want women, men? whatever. Just keep the personal stuff private. All of us. I don't like seeing people fornicating in the streets regardless of their preferences. Anyway...just a thought.

Thank you Darrick.

Did you know that AIDS actually came from the green monkey in Africa? Through consumption of the monkey - usually raw - AIDS was spread on. Yes, it first appeared in America through gay men, but that is no reason to condemn them. Men cheating brought it to their wives. Unclean needles spread it. And in the beginning, hemophilic children caught it because they needed frequent blood transfusions. Are you damning them all? Especially the children, or the innocent wives, or patients of sloppy doctors? There are a number of people who get AIDS through unhealthly sources, like drugs, sex, etc., but that is not a reason to not help them.

Before criticizing, ma'am, do some research. It might just help you.

I said children are victims. I'm not saying it's their fault.

Its not ok for Michael to give his opinion about homosexuals or transgendered people, but its ok for everyone else to judge him for his opinion. Hmmm...doesnt sound quite fair to me. These sexual perversions are just the begining of the moral breakdown in our society. I believe we have slipped past the point of rescue. and Darrick_04 its not only the republican party thats taking our freedoms, I belive the democrats have done more than their share in that regard.

These sexual perversions are just the begining of the moral breakdown in our society. I believe we have slipped past the point of rescue. and Darrick_04 its not only the republican party thats taking our freedoms, I belive the democrats have done more than their share in that regard.

-- Posted by greasemonkey on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:27 PM

WRONG. Nobody is judging Michael.. We want him to prove which "empires" have fallen b/c of his LUDICROUS statement.

And

darrick there is one thing you know..it all.

-- Posted by Annette 5 on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:27 PM

Forgive me for KNOWING what I say, before I say it... But I accept the concession speech.

But I accept the concession speech.

what the heck does that mean?

That's why our Lord and Savoir Jesus Christ was so special. No comparison.

That's why our Lord and Savoir Jesus Christ was so special. No comparison.

-- Posted by Annette 5 on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:35 PM

Right.. Except that you completely contradict yourself.

Well, politics now, how interesting. Both parties have had their paws into the working man's pockets for decades. But the republicans have done some really detestable things these last eight years. The economy is in the toilet, gas prices keep rising, employment and wages are not keeping up with the rise in costs, we are in a war that cannot be won, we have lost over 4000 young men and women to this war, we are trillions in debt (we weren't in debt at all when bush took over) The administration uses fear and paranoia to keep the people in line. Citizens phones are tapped, our emails are read, airlines seize and search, medicaid has been reduced so that over 32 million AMERICANS cannot get healthcare. Medicare costs are horrendous and medicines are reduced so that our seniors are unable to take prescribed medications because they cannot affort the atronomical pharmaceutical costs. when the senate and congress proposed to stop torture, our dear president vetoed the bill. As Americans we are supposed to abhor that type of behavior. Doesn't he realize if we do it to the other side, they will do it to our boys and girls over there? We have lost an enormous amount of respect from not only the enemy countries but our friendly countries. So...vote republican if you must, but they have done a great deal of damage these last eight years and it will take a long long time to undo what has been done. Oh, and they have made it clear that it's all the gay's fault. If it weren't for the gays and the hispanics all would be ok...how stupid does our government think we are?

It takes one man and one woman ,just like God intended for marriage. He made Adam. He did not want Adam to be alone so he made out of him woman. Woman is for the man. That's why when you are married you are as "one". Works together like a puzzle! When you look from the front you do not piece together. Not natural, and we all know the back is intended for other things. Now that I've said more than I should I'm going to stop.

-- Posted by Annette 5 on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:55 PM

Explain how this applies to the 'Virgin' Birth..

Jesus is the only one that came into this world in that way. I can't believe I have to explain this. God has only sent 1 son.

Jesus is the only one that came into this world in that way. I can't believe I have to explain this. God has only sent 1 son.

-- Posted by Annette 5 on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:43 PM

You have to explain it because it contradicts the very statement you can't stick to now.

blah blah blah. You use big words. You must be a small man with a loud voice. We all know how Aids is transferred, I said how did it get started? and I'm sitting here explaining to jesuslovesevery1 that God only sent 1 son and that Mary had the only virgin birth.

Aids like I said was spread when men started putting things in places they shouldn't..whether it be monkeys, other men, then transferred to women, through the blood that's donated to children accepting this transfussion. What's more to be said?

You say God's purpose for man was for each of them to have a woman

-- Posted by nascarfanatic on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:50 PM

I want you to find where I said that.

What's more to be said?

-- Posted by Annette 5 on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:51 PM

That it is NONE of your business what other people do. You didn't ask the states to vote on YOUR right to marry. You don't have people trying to take rights from you that you don't currently have. You don't suffer the astonishing ridiculing from uneducated citizens who like to blame ALL the world's problems on minorities. Minorities who once had no voice, and now they do. You just don't like that you have to contend with someone on the issue.

God gave the right for man and woman to marry. Not the states. The reason they fight for things like that is because it's not natural.

Ahh, Darrick you warm an old woman's heart. May you keep on thinking...That's what many do not do!

God gave the right for man and woman to marry. Not the states. The reason they fight for things like that is because it's not natural.

-- Posted by Annette 5 on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:00 PM

LOL... Do you have any idea of all the things the Bible calls unnatural?

1)Shellfish

2)Clothing made of TWO different fabrics

3)Eating rabbits

4)Eating pork

5)A man lying with his woman during "that time of the month"

6)Sewing two different seeds in the same field

None of these people lobbied Congress for it to be made legal...

A:He did not want Adam to be alone so he made out of him woman. Woman is for the man. That's why when you are married you are as "one". -- Posted by Annette 5 on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:55 PM

OMG, another Christian hypocrite? Does Hell have enough room for these people?

-- Posted by nascarfanatic on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:00 PM

Like I said find where I said "man's purpose is for each of them to have a woman. I believe what you copied and pasted said nothing like that. Get off!

-- Posted by Annette 5 on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 11:03 PM

Explain the difference then. That's right, there isn't... Change the words, the meaning stays the same. Good night

And when the Bible was written a man could have 9,10, or as many wives as he wanted... Do you agree that it should still be that way? Make up your mind. Because that is in the Bible too!

If you read the bible that was up until the 10 commandments. Of course stubborn people still try and do this.God made the rules!

Grannyapple,

So the Bush single handedly done all those things with no help whatsoever from congress. LOL. I dont like Bush either but when my tire went flat I didnt blame it on him. Im just saying that Republicans alone didnt do all those things. To think that is just silly. Its like telling kids that if they dont brush their teeth that the boogeyman will get them. We also have lost less servicemen during wartime than peacetime. We lose between 1500 and 2000 servicemen a year during peacetime due to training accidents or whatever. Any loss of life by these brave men and women is horrible, but to blame every single one of those deaths on the republicans is insane.

OK, Now.

The breakdown of morality is a fastrack to the decline of any people. You look at diseases that have been spread, because of sexual immorality. If sex had been kept between a husband and wife then we wouldnt have 1/3 of the disease we have now. I am not saying we should make it against the law to be homosexual or transgender, but they shouldnt be allowed to marry. Some people cant marry their sisters or their farm animals when they want to, so are those peoples rights being violated, also.

Parkerbrothers,

It appears your homophobia even has you a little paranoid. You are a one-tuned man indeed, because, even as you close off the evening, you can't help but say: "What in the world did you say to bring them all out of the woods (or closet) at once on you". It seems like those you criticize are comfortably in their sexuality; are you?

I don't know...Why don't you tell me? Since you seem to know everything, I'm sure you can also inform everyone here of the cause of AIDS, how to cure it, and the recent developments made in treating it.

Tonight has not been a gay rally. It has been people defending the beliefs and rights of others on a blog page. I can understand that an uptight 50 year old man can hold homophobic tendencies, but the use of "Ben-gay" on a sore spot and the lightening the loafers remarks only show how immature you are. I guess just because you grow older doesn't mean you grow up.

You have continually claimed that you want to know nothing about anyone's sexuality on here - and yet you continue to throw it in our faces. So what if people are gay? God created them, too. And as long as they have the love of God and accept Christ, then what does it matter?

Everyone here has an honest desire to share with and learn from others ideas about faith, religion, and God. No one wants to be name called (as you tend to enjoy doing to Evil Monkey) or picked on for their beliefs, inter alia. But private rights of people are something protected by this nation. If you don't like it, then leave. There are plenty of other places in the world that hold the same values you do. May I suggest the Middle East?

Your comments are single minded and repetitive; have you checked lately to make sure your CD player isn't on repeat?

And lastly, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. How would you feel if you were insulted for your sexual orientation? Would you not want to be understood and seek sanctuary from those around you? Put yourself in another person's shoes...before putting that same foot in your mouth.

For your edification and enlightenment, I included two link that shares the history of AIDS:

http://www.aegis.com/topics/timeline/def....

http://www.avert.org/origins.htm.

I hope you find this helpful. Also, for more information, I have this Google page ready for your perusal:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=AID....

I sincerely hope you read this information. No matter what your sexual orientation is, it never hurts a person to be well-versed in international and national matters of health...or to better understand the pain that someone experiences because people decide not to understand their situation.

Think about it? What places in the world outlaw homosexuality? Transgendered people? Other religions? Adultery? Abortion? None other than the Middle East and many UNdeveloped countries. It seems if that's the way you want everything Michael, you live on the wrong side of the globe. I'd gladly reimburse any expenses you incur on your journeys!

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 8:04 PM

Can we start a fund for him? I'll put in some money for that!

-- Posted by phoenix_rising on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 8:20 PM

Where do I send the money?

I was under the impression that a gay male flight attendent was the first confirmed case of aids in the US. He spread it to other gay males at a huge orgy. It eventually was introduced into the hetersexual population through bi-sexuals and drug addicts sharing needles. I saw a segment on 60 minutes about this many years ago.

Are you now saying that is not true, Darrick? If so, can you tell me exactly how aids started and what was the first confirmed case in the US? I'd like to know your sources also. Thanks

I thought Aids started in Africa originally from an animal bite and progressed through the tribes and communities? Are you saying that all the millions of people in Africa that have Aids or who have died from it are gay and it was spread from massive gay orgies and that is God's punishment for it?

I am sorry, but to blame Aids solely on gay people and to say its part of God's wrath is to admit your ignorance out loud and in public. Yes, I am sure there are gay people who are passing it around but so are straight people and children and it can from other ways than just sex . . . such as blood transfusions and drug use.

Please people, educate yourself (and that doesn't mean pulling information from Wikipedia) before making comments.

I think the big picture here is not gays, transgendered individuals, or any of the specifics mentioned here. The big picture is immorality and how we as a society are accepting and/or condoning it. Whether we're talking about giving transgendered people their own bathrooms or allowing our leaders to practice in drugs and prostitution...it appalls me as a Christian that we are so fearful of sounding intolerant to allow this public display of immorality to permeate our lives and the lives of our children.

Why are we so concerned about what people do behind closed doors? who cares? Not ME!

-- Posted by grannyapple on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 10:51 PM

Unfortunately, this isn't happening behind closed doors. It's happening right in front of our faces and being crammed down our throats.

I have my own sins to worry with and will gladly stick to those until others immorality is brought in front of me. Then, as a Christian and a follower of His Word, I am to confront it.

Grannyapple seems to sun up this argument best.

This conversation has gone into issues that have heated up the community, especially the Christian one. We all have to make up our own minds as to what to think and feel about these situations. What would Jesus do if he saw people being cast out or hated? Did he not dine with tax collectors, who were hated by most people in the cities Jesus visited? Did he not take care of people who needed help?

I know this topic can be scary when you look at it. I know people who have similar views to the contrary ones I mention.

parkerbrothers, as you mentioned earlier parkerbrothers, we humans are given free will. We cannot predetermine who we will fall in love with, how we will live, and what needs we will experience. And the fear of AIDS isn't all homosexuals care about. They worry about all the things we do: paying bills, having a job, finding time to shop for groceries, etc. I believe you really don't know a lot about AIDS and won't take the time to look up information on it. You can quote that over 200,000 sites about AIDS are listed on Google.

But have you taken the time to see that the keywords "Jesus Christ" have over 33 million hits?

I have done research on AIDS and other immunodeficiency diseases. I would be happy to share the information I learned with you. LadyPhoenixRising124@gmail is my email account. I have no qualms if anyone wants to email me. All I ask, especially from you, parkerbrothers, is that you look at the information with an open mind, inside of a closed, predertermined one.

Amen LauraSFT!

Annette,

What about the transgendered children? Do you think when they are miserable in their own bodies and insist that they are the wrong gender that its about the act of sex? Do you think someone would say, "I am tired of being male, I think I will try the other side for awhile?" Transgendered persons do not choose that lot in life for themselves. They are born that way. Their decisions are not an act against God. You need to stop being so judgemental of others. Homosexuals and transgendered people do not wake up one day and choose to lead a life that many small-minded judgemental people would condemn them for.(some would even kill them for) What would you do if your child, sibling or another loved one told you they were gay or transgendered?

phoenix_rising,

You are right. I do not know a lot about AIDS. I do know enough about it however to know I do not want to be around anybody doing the things that are high risk and attractants to the disease. I also know the things that are high risk behaviors are detestable in the sight of God.

As long as they keep the nasty stuff away from me they can have at it. I always had a dog as a pet growing up as I do now so the increased demand for gerbils has no effect on my happiness.

Murphy

I'll have to disagree with you on this.

someone would say, "I am tired of being male, I think I will try the other side for awhile?" Transgendered persons do not choose that lot in life for themselves. They are born that way. Their decisions are not an act against God.

God would not make a child like that. I have a cousin that turned out to be gay and I must say my aunt and uncle had a hand in that, plus his brother that was adopted used to molest him. They wanted a girl and they treated him like one. There are several cases where when gays talk about their past they will say they were molested in the past. Being molested messes with your mind. It's a serious thing and they usually don't get the help they need when things like that happen. I've actually talked to my cousin about this and that's when things started turning for him. So I got my information first hand. I still love him and I know he can change.

Unfortunately, this isn't happening behind closed doors. It's happening right in front of our faces and being crammed down our throats.

I have my own sins to worry with and will gladly stick to those until others immorality is brought in front of me. Then, as a Christian and a follower of His Word, I am to confront it.

-- Posted by pleasebenice on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 10:53 AM

Who is the last person that has "done this in front of your face, and crammed it down your throat"... Xenophobia! Move to Iran, they welcome people with thoughts like yours.

I'm sick of your comments where you try and act like noone knows anything but you. You say you believe in God and then you talk about how imperfect he is. God knows exactly what he's doing. Not me. Maybe one day you can take all your anger out on him. I'm sure that will go over well. God is in control not you. Maybe you can take the science course and then explain to everyone how wrong it is and everyone who had a part in it.

Well Dianatn

It is a choice. They stayed in the closet for so many years because it was not acceptable. Now it's the popular thing and everyone's trying it. Especially if you're sissy boy and don't fit in you might try and go the other way because they love that kind of thing.

As for the parents having a hand in it, they knew the adopted brother was doing this and they never stepped in. I was a tomboy to and had some of the girls I played ball with turn out lesbian, but that was because they were so tomboyish the boys did not acknowledge them so they tried the other. I think it's an acceptance thing. Try what's left.

Oh No you are so wrong.

I have many gay friends most have never even been with a woman. So how could they have ever decided they were not fitting in and decided to go the other direction.

Although I can say there are those that experiment with the same sex but they are not homosexuals.

And if you think all homosexuals are sissy boys you need to back up and regroup....come to the gym one day. They are anything but "sissy boys"

Homosexuality is not a disease you can catch. So there is no need for you to fear them. I have never heard of a homosexual trying to convert a heterosexual over to their side..

Noone is going to change how I feel about this topic, so there's no since in wasting my night on this like I did last night. I hope one day you will see the light.

Just like you haven't changed anyone else's mind either. The big shocker for you, will be when heaven is full of all of those folks you didn't think would be there.

I love how you think it's a sin, yet you can't show us where it says it. Be prepared, if you cite anything from Leviticus, you should list every verse before and after them.

So go be a light, to people who are in the dark. Perhaps you should start with the local churches.

No one cares if you change your mind about homosexuals least of which, the homosexuals themselves.

Why do you feel they need your approval one way or the other?

Thanks phoenix!!!

Awe, now go ahead and tell us just what kind of man Paul was...

Most people have not carefully and prayerfully researched the Biblical texts used by some people to condemn God's lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender children.

Historically, people's misinterpretation of the Bible has left a trail of suffering, bloodshed, and death.

We should be open to new truth from Scripture. Even heroes of the Christian faith have changed their minds about the meaning of various Biblical texts.

The Bible is a book about God. The Bible is not a book about human sexuality.

We miss what these passages say about God when we spend so much time debating what they say about sex.

The Biblical authors are silent about homosexual orientation as we know it today. They neither approve it nor condemn it.

The prophets, Jesus, and the Biblical authors say nothing about homosexual orientation as we understand it today. But, they are clear about this one thing. As we search for truth, we are to "Love one another."

Whatever some people believe the Bible seems to say about homosexuality, they must not use that belief to deny homosexuals their basic civil rights. To discriminate against sexual or gender minorities is unjust and un-American.

Thank you. I have noticed you have brought the same amount of good sense as well. It's amazing how many of the other "Christians" here spend so much hating on their fellow man, that they forget that Jesus embraced differences, and was still a spiritual guide.

Darrick_04

You asked for biblical reference to homosexuality and got it. So you will have to enlighten me as to what kind of man Paul was and why you disregard what he says.

Jesuslovesevery1,

I do not hate homosexuals the same way that I dont hate thieves or liars. Do we have to hate someone just because we tell them they are sinning. The main problem I have with homosexuality is that it gets shoved down our throats that its ok for them to be gay, and that I should accept it in the same way as the relationship between my wife and I. Well its not the same. In my eyes homosexuality is no different than adultery, beastiality, incest or any other sexual perversion. They are living in sin, but that doesnt mean I hate them.

If those are your views of homosexuality, equating it to "adultery, beastiality, incest or any other sexual perversion", then I must ask: what do you think of heterosexual sex?

But what if that adultery is between a man and woman? That's a heterosexual act.

Incest can be between a man and woman.

And what of other sexual perversions that may take place between a man and woman? And can you further define these "sexual perversions"?

Now, like you, I cannot condone bestiality (for the sake of the animal - three cheers for PETA).

We are dealing with a new social class. Didn't America also have a hard time with women entering the work force in the 1940's? There was a movement to put women "back in their place, barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen". Today we accept women in the workforce. Society is an ever evolving creature, one that we must adjust to - or one you can get stuck in. We may not like everything in society, but give it twenty years. Everything will change yet again, and you will have something else to complain about.

Darrick_04

You asked for biblical reference to homosexuality and got it. So you will have to enlighten me as to what kind of man Paul was and why you disregard what he says.

-- Posted by greasemonkey on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 10:33 PM

(((No No, you are the one who knows the Bible so well, I'm not going to do the research for you. Besides Michael seems to be your good friend, ask him what kind of man Paul was.)))

greasemonkey

Thank you!!! get ready to repeat yourself several times later on.

-- Posted by Annette 5 on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 10:45 PM

(((Just don't be like Annette and contradict yourself and become judgemental with not a single fact.)))

Thank you. I have noticed you have brought the same amount of good sense as well. It's amazing how many of the other "Christians" here spend so much hating on their fellow man, that they forget that Jesus embraced differences, and was still a spiritual guide.

-- Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 9:50 PM

jesuslovesevery1,

In no far fetch of the mind would Jesus embrace homosexuality or sodomy.

Parkerbrothers,

If someone comes to Jesus and asks for love and believes in God and the sacrifice God made for us, then no matter what their sins or who they are - even Adolf Hitler or Joseph Stalin - Jesus will reach out a hand and wash away their sins. He teaches us to love each other, not hate - and what better way to spread love than to accept people different than us? And I don't believe Jesus would want us to hide who we were or what we were. God knows what we think and what we do - He knew before he ever created us. To go against our natural instincts would be a lie. And lying is against the Ten Commandments.

Just curious: How many friends do you have that are outside of your 1-person social circle?

Hey darrick, I know you don't want to do greasmonkey's research, but I will go ahead and post what I know about Paul the Fraud...

* Paul was Satan in the Flesh

* Paul was never recognized as an apostle by the Disciples OR Jesus

* Paul was never trained by the disciples, the men who walked, talked, and broke bread with our Saviour. He received his knowledge from "revelations."

* Paul's account of his Damascus Road Experience changed every time he told it, thus the disciples knew he was lying.

* Paul declared he was teaching another Gospel of which he himself was the Father

* Paul declared he himself was the son of God

* Paul issued his own commandments and laws for people to adhere to

* Paul taught the exact Opposite of what Jesus and His real disciples did.

* Paul worked to destroy and undo everything Jesus and His disciples did and were doing.

* Paul was never repentant for being the greatest persecutor of Christians at that time! He boasted about it! Over and Over!

* Paul said God's law was a Curse. Jesus said it was a blessing. Who's lying?

* Paul condemned Jesus and His disciples for false teachings, he condemned Jesus Himself for having long hair in 1 Corinthians 11:14, something approved in Numbers 6:5 and Judges 13:5.

* Jesus Said: Keep the Sabbath (Mark 2:27), circumcise male children (Luke 2:21), Paul Said: Circumcision is not necessary (Romans 2:26) that is going against what the Christ said in Luke 2:21.

* In 1 Corinthians 15:1 Paul says that he was not giving them anything but what "he preached." He explained this even further in the second book (or letter) to the Corinthians (2 Corinthians 11:17). It reads - "That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting." He's telling you plain and simple he was speaking of himself and not from or of the Lord!" Paul cursed Jesus and His disciples

* Paul claimed he himself was the son of God

* Paul Supported and demanded Adherence to Iniquity (Discrimination), Jesus said to not let it be found among us! Who's lying?

Phoenix_Rising,

I believe any sex outside of marriage is a sin. As long as that marriage consists of a man and woman. Sex out of wedlock could be listed along with the other sins I listed. Yes we are dealing with a new social class, one that has no clue of the difference between right and wrong. We have a society where everything should be accepted.

Darrick_04,

I know what kind of man Paul was. What I want to know is how you can determine why Gods word through him should be disregarded. Btw, I never said I knew the Bible any better than anyone else. I am a humble student of Gods word.

Jesuslovesevery1, you have a knack for pounding that hammer. Thanks for your views - I appreciate them and am so glad you are in this conversation!

-- Posted by phoenix_rising on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 11:14 PM

No problem ;)

Parkerbrothers, Annette, Greasemonkey, and of course, Mr. Bell...

Not a SINGLE ONE of you have responded to Michael's actual blog ... "Things like this happened in other eras to other empires and they crumbled...If this empire would only get back on the rack so nothing could prevail against it and that rock is Jesus Christ and his rod which is the Bible."

So tell me, exactly WHICH empire has fallen due to homosexuality, transgendered folks, etc? That's right, NEVER. The underlying reason for any empire to fall has been the debasing of their currency, their corrupt RELIGIOUS leaders, and how HORRIBLY they treated their very own citizens.... Now, since you are all stuck on the trivial non-issues, how about being able to stand up for Michael, because he speaks the truth. I know why you can't, because he spews for nothing but lies and unfortunately the sheeple come running in his defense.

darrick_04,

Perhaps Sodom and Gamorra were not empires but they were destroyed. As has been noted before, I am sure sodomy was not the only sin there, but it must have been the most remembered since the word sodomy was coined from the legendary "sin of Sodom".

darrick_04,

What had nothing to do with Sodomy?

Parkerbrothers, now tell me does this sound like it came from GOD????

The primarily sexual meaning of the word sodomia for Christians did not evolve before the 500s CE. It was Byzantine Emperor Justinian I who in his novels no. 77 (dating 538) and no. 141 (dating 559) amended to his Corpus iuris civilis was the first to declare that Sodom's sin had been specifically same-sex activities and desire for them in order to create homosexual scapegoats for recent earthquakes and other disasters of his time (see Extreme weather events of 535-536), but most of all to enact anti-homosexual laws that he used upon personal as well as political opponents in case he could not prove them guilty of anything else.

Justinian's were not the first Roman laws prohibiting homosexual behavior (earlier such measures had been included in the Lex Scantinia dating from the year 149 BCE and the Lex Julia dating from 17 BCE, both constituting death penalty for homosexual behavior, while we have allegations that even before Lex Scantinia, such laws existed but direct evidence was lost), however while sticking to death penalty by beheading Justinian's legal novels heralded a change in Roman legal paradigm as in that he introduced a concept of not only mundane but also divine punishment for homosexual behavior. Individuals might ignore and escape mundane laws, however they could not do the same with divine laws if Justinian declared his novels to be such.

darrick_04,

I never said the word Sodomy was coined from God. I said the word was coined from the phrase "sin of Sodom".

Your paste had a lot of good information in it. It was amazing to see that the death penalty was prescribed for homosexual behavior a couple of thousand years ago. They probably were not wanting another homosexual uprising to smoke their town to the ground. The destruction of Sodom was still probably fresh on their mind.

Thanks for the info to help me confirm the attitudes about homosexuality in that time period.

Thanks for the info to help me confirm the attitudes about homosexuality in that time period.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 12:13 AM

Hearts of stone and minds made of air will never enjoy the beauty of emracing differences. Goodnight.

People who can't think of anything else but whether the person you love is indented or convex should be doomed not to think of anything else but that, and so miss the other ninety-five percent of life. ~Robert Towne

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 8:47 PM

Great point. Night ya'll.

Their relationship shouldnt be held in the same esteem as a man and womans marriage. My whole entire point for this whole entire blog is as follows: I dont care what anyone wants to do behind closed doors, Homosexuality is a sin. I dont think its any worse or any better than any other sin, but its still a SIN.

-- Posted by greasemonkey on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 12:37 AM

If you don't care, then WHAT ARE YOU COMPLAIGNING ABOUT??? And since it's "no better or worse than any other sin" why do you think it is YOUR right to deny them of their RIGHT to happiness? What will it hurt, after all us straight folks haven't set the greatest precedent of what a marriage should be...

A 50% divorce rate, now THAT is the "esteem that man and woman's marriage" deserves, let me tell you.

STATEMENT:In no far fetch of the mind would Jesus embrace homosexuality or sodomy.-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 11:01 PM

RESPONSE:I'm glad you've talked to Jesus about this. Can you show me in the Bible were he spoke against it? AH, that's right. He didn't...-- Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 11:10 PM

Again... You have failed to answer this. Since JESUS is YOUR Savior, why don't you follow his guidance, and not speak against things in which he didn't... Placing yourself above Jesus's judgement is a tragic mistake. May your soul rest easy.

Yes, but people did use the excuse to discriminate against black people at one time because they said the bible stated slavery was allowed and would use scriptures to prove their point and you would be surprised how many people still believe that the bible claims that black individuals are still inferior to the white race. It was amazing to hear how many churches use to preach this kind of doctrine and that people actually believed it. So, I can see where some people might draw comparisons to the gay and civil right movements.

That just goes to show how anyone can twist the word of the bible to justify their hate and bigotry and unfortunately it still goes on today and even within this blog entry.

I can not believe everything that I am reading on here. I have quietly read these blogs for awhile now, and I can no longer keep quiet. You people seem to bash random groups of people at various times. I'm tired of listening to ignorant people make hideous comments about things they know little about. Who is anyone of you (not all) to judge someone based on their sexual orientation?? It in no way affects you personally.

I think most of you have nothing better to do than to just be nosey. Join the real world, it's none of your business what anyone does in their life. No one seems to want to get to know the person before they form an opinion anymore. Granted, I'm still fairly young, but I know that there is more to a person than what they look like or who they choose to have sex with.

To tell the truth, I am considered bi-sexual myself. My spouse is not the same sex as myself. I chose to marry because of love and happiness they bring to me. Gender only played a part in the fact that the same sex can't have a legal marriage, and that's all. So, are you saying that I do not have the same rights as everyone else? That's absurd.

And all these "Christians" on here need to step back and take a good look in the mirror and judge yourself before you start judging others. You are the reason people, like me, refuse to go to church or believe in an organized based religion. There are too many hypocrits that believe that they are the only ones worthy of love from God or any other being. I've got a few thoughts for you, since the Bible is technically "historical fiction" (because none of it can really be proven). How can you be so sure that your beliefs are right? What if when everyone dies, we are all wrong about religion? What if there is no Heaven or Hell? What if there is no God? What if everything that you were taught was a lie? Just about every religion, afterall, is based on interpertation of different books. You go to church every Sunday to hear someone give their opinion of a book that they read. It's a glorified book group.

I've read the Bible, and used to be a devot Christian. I find it hard to have faith in something that criticizes everything that doesn't fit into their opinion. Who cares who sleeps with who? If I want to date someone of the same sex, it should be my right. Same as if I want to marry that person. Isn't it a "God given right" for a person to pursue happiness?

I'm rambling, but I am so tired of reading ignorant blogs or comments. People seem to forget that everyone in this world is human - which means that we are made of the same blood, guts, and gore. We all have feelings, beliefs, and should have equal rights. It saddens me to think that there are still people as barbaric as they are to think that just because someone's life is different than theirs that they deserve to be belittled and treated unfairly.

And what makes me even more sad is the fact that everyone is so concerned with who a person sleeps with and is happy being with when there are so much more devastating issues in this world. I am amazed about how little some people care about the real issues: child abuse and neglect, molestation, murder, teen pregnancies, suicide, children getting arrested, random violence, kidnapping, and random sex crimes. The real issues seem not to be important to any of you. It appalls me. I may be young, but I know what is important in this world, and someone's sex life isn't it. It's time that you people grow up, and start maturing or I feel that the children are in for a bad future if they follow your beliefs with the same closed minds. Good day.

Deception82z,

Your remarks were great. I'm so glad you have joined this blog - one more person who has some good common sense and can understand what is really going on in the word. Thank you for your input - it means alot to another defender fo peoples' beliefs. I can't wait to read more from you.

I agree Cheryl . . . considering what most gay people have to go through in this world, I cant imagine them just choosing a way of life that would be filled with so much hardship. If it was a choice, I would definitely be picking the easier option. The point though is that for most people, it is not a choice but just who they are and how they were born. I just don't see people consciously making a choice to be gay or straight. It is absurd!

Is that a choice that you would feel comfortable making for your child after birth? Deciding for the baby to be a boy or girl? What if you got it wrong?

Yes, I have no doubt I would make that choice for my child. I think it would be difficult enough to grow up homosexual. I think it would be even worse to be a female in every other aspect and have a male anatomy. I would have to know what hormones my baby had male or female and decide from there.

As for getting it wrong, that's possible. But, I would not want to raise a son that had female hormones and a males anatomy that would not work especially during teenage years when boys are comparing themselves and that sort of thing.

Posted by hhhmmm Prom is coming up and its on their minds and they want to justify it somehow.

This blog wont justify it if it's already on their minds. It's up to parents to educate our kids about sex no matter what their gender preferance may be!

LOL . . . evidently I get out more than you do considering your small mindedness. Of course, I am probably younger than you too and not constrained by outdated thinking or stereotypes.

To be honest, I would rather not see anyone making out with each other no matter if they are gay or straight. Leave that stuff for more intimate places but to be honest, what business is it of mine to tell someone that? NONE!

I am still laughing about all the "homosexuals parading around" . . . I am definitely missing something.

hhhmmm..., yes I said who care who sleeps with whom....if it is my daughters or my son sleeping with someone there really isn't much of a way to stop them (it wasn't that long ago that I was a teenager) the best I can do for them is to let them know about birth control and disease control and encourage them to be as picky as possible. As far as someone else's kids sleeping around, well it's none of my concern!

Annette 5, I invite you to answer the question that cheryl posed...did you make the choice to be heterosexual? I didn't. Also, I didn't make a choice to not be in an interracial marriage....just happens to be that I am attracted the kind of people I am.

Also I'm still not understanding why my husband and I can "parade" but we must be careful of two men or two women parading. Can ya help me there?

Jaxspike, you make an excellent point. Just because someone is gay does not mean we should treat them any differently. To stick all of them into one category dehumanizes them.

And LauraSFT, AMEN! I live just outside of Nashville and go there all the time. I have visited almost every state. And what have I seen? Maybe two or three gay couples holding hands. I have never seen them parading around, trying to get special attention. What does it matter if a gay person wants to hold hands with a person of the same sex? Should straight couples not even hold hands?

Annette's arguments run around and around in circles, yet she does not make a valid point.

If you can Annette,

"For your information I'm 30. I'd say by your childish comments your about 18? I'd rather have a small mind and not agree with the "popular" things happening. stereotypes? You know a tree by it's fruit."

-- Posted by Annette 5 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 11:04

Are you sure that 0 is in the right places? Most of your arguments make as much sense as a 3 year old who has been denied a cookie. And you do have a small mind. That sad thing is you have no wish to step out of your 2 bedroom house with a picket fence and look at the world with OPEN eyes instead of the closed, blind one you see with. No one ever said homosexuality was a popular thing. People are trying to establish themselves in a difficult world - straight or not. Today's times are difficult for everyone, not just a selected few.

Lastly, your comment "You know a tree by it's fruit" is incredibly offense. Do you know where that term has derivites? Back to the days when black people were hung from trees. Ever heard the term "strange fruit"? To equate the word "fruit" to someone gay is very dehumanizing. Are all gays fruits? In your eyes they are - but in your views, an apple and orange look the same.

Only if your a disgusting horndog! LOL

That kind of love is something you find only once in a lifetime, if you are lucky. Regardless of the gender you should feel blessed if you have that love.

AMEN DIANA!!!

and Annette, I would rather be a gay fruit than a religious nut job. You make absolutely NO SENSE. You preach christianity, claim to be christian, yet you are thumping on your precious bible and using GOD to justify your bigotry, hatred and pure out ignorance toward a whole community of people.

You have no clue how many people you ALONE turn off to God. Personally I am one of them, I sit here reading how you believe and how others on here believe and if that's how I need to be to be the kind of Christian you are, then no thanks. I wonder how proud God would be of you if he were to read all you have said, I think he would shed a tear for you and shake his head in disbelief that you are so hateful and cruel. And then using his name to be that way...such a sad thing.

JMO

"For your information I'm 30. I'd say by your childish comments your about 18? I'd rather have a small mind and not agree with the "popular" things happening. stereotypes? You know a tree by it's fruit."

-- Posted by Annette 5 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 11:04

I find, that you be that young, would be so incredibly close minded, perhaps you need to step out into the real world, the arguements on here sound like something my teen would argue about. My children are exposed to many different people, including homosexuals, and surprisingly they haven't caught the "gay" but since one of mine plays sports, maybe I should watch her, according to you. My mom played softball for 20 years, I never thought to ask if she was a lesbian, perhaps that's why I am fatherless ROFLMAO!!

Isn't happiness and love all God truly wants for ALL HIS CHILDREN? Love is love, no matter what shape, form, color, or sexuality. I have taught my children that and thank God I have wonderful accepting loving children that know God makes people in so many different ways.

and as for the transgendered humans, I feel so sorry for them, they are born (usually) with both male and female parts and the parents have to choose, what if the parents chose wrong? What if they chose boy and they should have been a girl and vice versa. God made those babies the way they were supposed to be, he has a grand plan, and they aren't going to be the downfall of anything, America is not an Empire (laughable to say the least) if anything will bring down an Empire it will be close minded, burn them at the stake fake Christians.

Holy Crap!!! I just realized I, too, must be a lesbian! I played softball for 10+ years and if I weren't pregnant I'd play in the co-ed league this season! Wait?! I'm pregnant...but I LOVE softball. I now have a huge identity crisis, am I a lesbian or not? I don't really find women attractive but I do love softball....what to do, what to do...

Uh, anyone being burned right now, raise your hand?

Gods word sure does burn when your lifestyle doesnt line up with it. Keep up the good work Michael.

-- Posted by seedsower on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 2:27 PM

I sure am not feeling any heat. I bet you are though. No hand raising here Phoenix.

Oh and thanks for the congrats!

I grew up in Shelbyville but I moved away and married a guy in the Air Force. I just thought I was open-minded until I really got out into the world. I met some really great people away from this town and have kept in touch with almost all of them. Growing up, I was not exposed to everything going on in the world, only what is taught in this small town. It is only when I moved away from here that I realized there were more than just white straight folks in the world (yes, I am a Senior). I came to accept interacial marriages and gay people. In fact 2 of my closest friends are a gay couple. In fact, if a girl wants a really true friend, the best one to have is a gay male. I accept their lifestyle and they have been together for more than 30 years now. How many straight couples have been together that long? Probably not many.

Didn't our Lord want us to love one another? No, wait. Or is it love one another as long as they are not homosexuals, transgenders or not like us? Grow up Annette. I would like to know what Church you go to, so I can be sure never to go there. And may I say to you that sexual preference is definitely NOT a choice.

It seems all the so-called Christians on this blog, show more hate and bigotry than anyone.

Annette, I need advice from you, exactly how would I go about keeping my children straight? <--since you believe we are born this way. I mean, my daughter already plays in dirt. And as for my son, well he puts on my mom's knee highs so he can slide on the floor....

Phoenix, there is no teaching to closed minds. I feel that the breath I exhale is more important than blowing it against a brick wall.

Oh! and I'm not THAT old, but am old enough to join AARP.:)

THIS IS WHY SODOM WAS DESTROYED...PLEASE DO SOME RESEARCH..

Sodom and Gomorra were destroyed because in their abundance they did nothing to help the poor. How did they acquire that abundance? Most likely they acquired it in the same manner as the abundant have down through the ages. They acquired it by taking advantage of the poor and needy. They oppressed the surrounding peoples. This interpretation, provided by Ezekiel, dovetails with the reason God gives for investigating that is found in the story itself. The interpretation of homosexuality does not fit at all!

The story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra is an ethical story. It's theme is how we treat our neighbors, whether or not we accept them as fellow human beings, created by God, with every right to enjoy life and prosper to the same extent as we do, or merely use them for the sake of our own convenience.

Classical Jewish texts concur that God did NOT destroy Sodom and Gemorrah because their inhabitants were homosexual. Not at all. Rather, the cities were destroyed because the inhabitents were nasty, depraved, and uncompromisingly greedy. Classical Jewish writings affirm that the primary crimes of the Sodomites were, among others, terrible and repeated economic crimes, both against each other and to outsiders.

and you being a home builder, I am POSITIVE you fit into this category "taking advantage of the poor and needy" and for using them for the sake of your own convenience. And let's not leave out the other things you are guilty of Parker...nasty, depraved, and uncompromising greed and economic crimes.

Parkerbrothers, YOU STILL haven't shown me where JESUS denounced it.

The only CHOICE involved is the day you decide to be honest with yourself. So tell us, when did you literally take a sexuality test where your options were

A) Straight

B) Gay

C) Bi

D) N/A

I've never seen that test. The only decision I personally made, was the decision to STOP pretending to be the person that EVERYONE else thought I should be. THAT is where the brain comes in. Luckily, mine still works.

One last thing Annette, I played BASEBALL from the age of 4-15, basketball from 7-15, and would have played others sport had theY been at my disposal, and yet I am not a stereotype that you would like to place me in. "Sissy boy"...

LOL, is that your excuse now? Get a life, and stop bringing everyone else down with your mysery just because you aren't happy.

HEY PARKER, COME ON OUT OF THE CLOSET...YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO, COME ON, IT WON'T BE THAT BAD. YOU ARE SUCH A CLOSETED HOMOSEXUAL, AND YOU WANNA KNOW HOW I KNOW....YOU BARK SO LOUDLY AGAINST IT, THOSE ARE THE ONES HIDING SOMETHING. I DON'T SEE YOU HARPING ON OTHER SINS, EAT PORK THIS WEEK? SO DO YOURSELF A FAVOR, FIND YOU A NICE GUY AND COME ON OUT. WE WILL ALL BE HAPPIER WHEN YOU DO AND YOU CAN FINALLY FIND SOME PEACE...

Yep, Vindicated is right, Parkerbrothers. You ready to come out into the open? Or do you like your quiet little world in the closet?

Oh, PB, any remarks about Sodom and Gommora don't count. Read your Bible and stop making assumptions as to what a word could mean and look for the real definition.

Parkerbrothers, YOU STILL haven't shown me where JESUS denounced it.

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:28 PM

Darrick04,

As long as your opinion is...... "I wish I could personally say I read the Bible daily but I don't. I feel like it's a big Hollywood production, honestly. Fairytales, magic, witchcraft, wars, etc etc. It all seems odd.".......you will never understand that Jesus does not have to say: Mack, thou shall not mount the back of Jack, to understand homosexuality is detestable in his sight. Even if he did specifically say that you would want to argue that "my name is Billy and he didn't say I couldn't do it with Willy."

You friutcakes can babble all night long with the nuts you were put togther with by no choice of your own as you say. I can hear you all now, "That's just the way we were baked", "That's just the way we were baked", "We had no choice", "They just mixed us all up and put us in here together"

If you don't have a choice then maybe you are a fruitcake.

To Dannysgal: yes, this is definitely not the work of our precious Lord. It is not the fruits of the spirit-filled christian - Michael Bell calls himself a pastor yet the pastor of what? He never (or rarely) responds to direct questions. He starts a feud and then sits back and watches. His Minions spend a great deal of time attacking those who seem to want answers to "What Michael Means?" and then get frustrated and go on the attack. Meanwhile, the minions spend countless and I must say fruitless hours attacking and then attacking some more. Most of these people do not know each other and yet, they make snide and unchristianlike remarks to those that they judge rather than witness to. I don't plan on taking part in this ever, but felt you deserved to hear it from another observer that it is too unpleasant to be a part of. I am looking for a place to have good discussion without all the upchuck.

micheal, parkerbrothers, annette and whomever else feels that sexual orientation and gender identity are choices, turn your television sets to abc. 20/20 is doing an episode about medical conditions. In the previews it stated that scientists may have identified the 'gay' gene. More proof that it is not a choice but something you are born with. Open your minds. God cannot hate his own creation.

Murphy's Law,

I guess he loved it when he flooded all but a few.

cfder,

We once had a man working for us that claimed he was in love with a sheep. He claimed he would leave his wife and move in with the sheep if he could ever teach it to say "good morning" and "good night". I found out it was a waste of time trying to explain what was right and wrong to him. He died loving that sheep. Hopefully though maybe one of these will see the light and turn from wrong to right by excersising their free will and choice that comes with it.

If they are right and it is solely genetic we can at least be glad that God set up provisions for Steve not to be able to reproduce from Adam and hopefully he has created a plague to eliminate what is gross and detestable in his sight.

I wish God did not have a wrath but that is a reality of him also.

If they are right and it is solely genetic we can at least be glad that God set up provisions for Steve not to be able to reproduce from Adam and hopefully he has created a plague to eliminate what is gross and detestable in his sight.

I wish God did not have a wrath but that is a reality of him also.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 8:39 PM

....49 (years old) going on 13

cfder,

I used to not want to see his wrath either. It was easier to see a God the way I wanted him to be. But only once I understood his wrath could I comprehend his love.

Your are right about the one way. It is a simple straight line that leads to him. Nothing but confusion sets in when you loose focus of the straight line.

jesuslovesevery1,

How would you know about Westboro when it is on the other side of the hill of your Sodom.

I can see neither from my valley of green pastures and quiet water.

PB what "wrath" have you encountered? You poor pitiful soul...

-- Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 9:11 PM

None and I never will. I am covered.

jesuslovesevery1 ,

I have not experienced it.

When I say..."I used to not want to see his wrath either." I am referring to acknowledging that wrath is a reality of his character.

When I say..."understood his wrath", again I am simply acknowledging his wrathful nature that he has displayed in the Bible.

Sorry for the confusion.

First of all, I have been through and seen more crap in 22 years than most of you have in your entire lifetime. You don't hear me complaining, because I know that everyone is made different. I believe that everything happens for a reason. And just because you have a crappy experience or see something that you don't like, doesn't mean that only bad will come from it. Living example.

It amazes me just how nieve you are being. The definition of "normal" is based on perception. My idea of normal is probably not the same as everyone else's. Who sets the standard anyway? As far as married people not getting strange looks (as long as they're normal) is a bunch of crap. When me and my husband walk down the street or in a store I get strange looks all of the time. If my daughter is with me, it's even worse. We are a normal family. My husband and I work hard for what we have. We both work and pay taxes, but just because we look different than everyone that's "normal" we get those strange looks that straight people "don't get". Our age plays a big part in it too. I am 22; my husband 25; and my daughter is 3. What kind of looks do you think I get?

I went into a doctor's office with my sister (who is on the boyish side, but is straight - another stereotype) when I was 21 and two older women who were there started to make rude comments that were loud enough to hear. They made the comment "kids having kids". It enraged me, to be honest. I was old enough to have a child. I was married. And I can almost guarantee you that 60 - 70 the women were younger than 18 when they got pregnant. The whole point of this is don't put someone into a catagory when you don't know anything about their life.

Yes, I am a young mother, but I am responsible. I don't spend my weekends drinking and partying. I put my daughter first in my life, and she always will be. She is a great little girl, who is growing up with strong morals. I refuse to let her run amuck.

As far as the prom night thing, and "who cares who sleeps with who", if you raise your children with a sense of morals and respect, they won't be as likely to "experiment". I am going to have the "sex talk" with my daughter when she gets older, and I will do everything that I can to encourage her to wait until she's older and married. If for some reason she choses not to wait, then I will do everything in my power to keep her safe and educated. I am not nieve enough to think that kids listen to their parents all of the time. Let's face it, more kids are having sex and the parents aren't doing anything about it. More adult men are being charged with statutory rape because the parents let their guards down or just don't care. A child will hold the same values as they are taught. If you chose not to set a good example for them, it's your own doings.

I just don't understand how people can call themselves Christians, yet say all these horrible things. I was always taught to "love thy neighbor as yourself" and that God is loving and forgiving along with jealous and wrathful. But I guess it's just which part and interpertation of the Scripture you want to follow and believe. That is one of the reason that we have so many different demonations. Personally, I am tired of being judged by God's sheep (followers) just because I don't fit into life like every other "normal" person. I have my own life, and I am going to live it the way it makes me happy. I don't feel sorry if everyone doesn't feel the same way. Differences are what makes the world interesting and beautiful. I don't want to conform to everyone else's standards. So, if you think that I am going to hell for my beliefs or my way of life, I'll save all of you hypocrits a seat.

PARKERBROTHERS:

It's no wonder all of those homes remain empty in your lovely "Utopia Station"....

Don't you think God would have blessed you with more than TWO of the homes being sold? (one of those in which you live)

I see you mentioned nothing about Regaen's... OR Nixon's... do I need to continue?

Bush inherited a BUDGET surplus of over $500 billion from the Clinton era... It would take atleast three president to completely irradicate the entire NATIONAL debt.

Since Bush's reign, the BUDGET deficit has been in a whole every year after 2001, the NATIONAL debt has expanded to an astronomical amount. Currently approaching $10 trillion. I am no economist, but my common sense can prevail where money talk does not.

I see you mentioned nothing about Regaen's... OR Nixon's... do I need to continue?

-- Posted by darrick_04 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 9:45 PM

How would you know? You don't remember either one. My own situation flourished greatly under Reagan. Without his leadership this country was quickly going down the tubes in 1980.

I was in high school during Nixon, so I wasn't really aware of some things. However, he certainly wasn't the kind of president we needed, and obviously made many mistakes. But I will at least admit there are problems on both sides. Some people only see things one way.

You still haven't scolded the granny for the obvious errors. Come on, and at least be consistent with your admonitions. Don't play favorites.

I believe I just did... Or were you typing so slow, you didn't read it fast enough?

He will bless me as he sees fit. Not as I see fit. He always has.

The blessing of his Holy Spirit is the blessing worth all.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 9:57 PM

You have acquired your temporary wealth through highly unethical means. I don't think God is blessing you. After all the corrupt leaders of Enron, Arthur Anderson and WorldCom thought God blessed them as well... I think Bush said sord of the same thing but you see what he's done in his name.

Didn't see granny's name anywhere.

-- Posted by cfder on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 9:58 PM

I expounded upon Grannyapples thoughts. Since I pretty much know her, I know exactly what she meant. You did too, you just can't get over it. But the important part is, you can't afford half the things as easily now as you could 10 years ago. Gas prices anyone? Milk? Eggs? Electricity? Propane? all other Grocery items? Insurance? House payments? Property taxes?

So long as WAGES rise with the inflation these things aren't so detramental, however wages have remained unchanged until recently, and inflation has been at the highest level in 17 years. Why don't we discuss this on another blog? I don't want to hijack Michael's love-filled depictions of Jesus.

and HOMOSEXUAL is the only one of those "SINS" you speak of, that involves LOVE. How ironic?

-- Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 9:55 PM

There is a difference between lust and love. Do not be deceived.

Those men calling the angels out of Lot's house made have had a warm fuzzy feeling but it was not love. It was lust.

Love is what destroyed Sodom, much like spanking a child.

Maybe now you can see how love and wrath can be the exact same and total opposites at the same time.

Cfder, if you feel such a need to punish grannyapple, then feel free to send her a message. Darrick isn't a fact checker on here, he's just incredibly intelligent, well informed, and does his research. Perhaps we would all do best if we followed his example.

I'm going to play your game of REPEATING everything everyone said, only this time, its the one you didn't address b/c it sheds the TRUTH on what happened...

"THIS IS WHY SODOM WAS DESTROYED...PLEASE DO SOME RESEARCH..

Sodom and Gomorra were destroyed because in their abundance they did nothing to help the poor. How did they acquire that abundance? Most likely they acquired it in the same manner as the abundant have down through the ages. They acquired it by taking advantage of the poor and needy. They oppressed the surrounding peoples. This interpretation, provided by Ezekiel, dovetails with the reason God gives for investigating that is found in the story itself. The interpretation of homosexuality does not fit at all!

The story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra is an ethical story. It's theme is how we treat our neighbors, whether or not we accept them as fellow human beings, created by God, with every right to enjoy life and prosper to the same extent as we do, or merely use them for the sake of our own convenience.

Classical Jewish texts concur that God did NOT destroy Sodom and Gemorrah because their inhabitants were homosexual. Not at all. Rather, the cities were destroyed because the inhabitents were nasty, depraved, and uncompromisingly greedy. Classical Jewish writings affirm that the primary crimes of the Sodomites were, among others, terrible and repeated economic crimes, both against each other and to outsiders."

By Vindicated...

Deception82z, great post! I understand all too well the snide looks and remarks from those older women when I was your age and younger!

When I was your age, 22 you say, I had not only a 7 yr old but a 5 yr old and 1 yr old as well! Can you imagine the looks I got?? LOL I used to get SOO MAD!!! Our oldest has a red colored birthmark on the back of her neck and I remember getting her out of the air conditioned car to look at a road side flea market when a lady remarked "just look at that! Kids having kids and not taking care of them! Why that sweet baby has a rash all up her neck from this heat!!" I was in tears and my husband sweetly led me back to our cool car we had just gotten out of not 2 mins earlier and we left. That's been over 18 yrs ago and I still remember how I felt that day!

I am still happily married to my childrens (they're all biologically both mine and my husbands) father and we just celebrated 20 yrs last year! To this day people are shocked to hear we have children who are nearly full grown but it's a blessing to be young and still hopefully have long life to enjoy being husband/wife to one another as well as parents/grandparents/and hopefully see even more generations before it's time for us to leave this earth and join our Heavenly Father above :) Keep your head up always!

I think I was consistent, I PROVIDED research. And since I know her, how do you know she and I didn't discuss this prior to her posting? Or how do you know I didn't speak to her afterwards?

The fact remains, when someone makes a mistake (she didn't, she only failed to mention what type of SURPLUS we had) I correct them.. This time was no different.

DannysGal,

Thank you for some kind words. It's just irritating to me when people judge someone before getting to really know them. I have to admit, that the snide little remarks of ignorant people still make me mad, but I am learning to deal with what life gives. What people fail to remember is that sometimes you don't really have a choice about what happens in life. You can only take what is given and make the best out of it. It's taken me a while to figure this out, but I think I finally got it. I am happy with my life now, and I refuse to let anyone have that kind of negative affect on me anymore. It's my life and not theirs. I decided that I won't let my hate or rage control me. I have been happier since then. The biggest thing I've learned in the last few years is that when you can laugh at yourself and let all the little things go by, everyone else's opinions of you don't matter or have any credential.

Whew...this blog gives me a headache. By the time I got to the bottom of the comments I forgot what we were even talking about.

:>)

Nite Nite every1

PB be sure and say your prayers tonight and count your blessings :>)

Look. Facts were provided that backed up someone's point or invalidated another. Doing your own research is important, but on some of these issues, I have to ask someone just where to look for a certain something I want to say/put out there. And don't chastise Darrick - or ANYONE, for that matter - because he wasn't up someone's ass about not having the proper source for a statement that was already correct.

You do, and I'm very impressed. I only wanted you to be sure to not chide some when you don't publicly chide everyone else that are guilty of the same. That's all...

parkerbrothers,

Are you saying that spanking a child will destroy them? If so, I was spanked a as child, and I turned out just fine. Please elaborate.

-- Posted by Deception82z on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 10:07 PM

No, I was saying you will disipline a child if you love it. To just turn your back and ignore the child when he has done wrong and let anything go would not be love.

Just as God would not just turn his back and ignore the sin of Sodom.

Your history on Sodom and Gomorra is so wrong...Stop bringing it up, PB.

-- Posted by phoenix_rising on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 10:12 PM

phoenix_rising,

Sorry Sodom and Gomorra bothers you.

Reality has a way of rubbing the deceived.

Were you one of the ones calling the angels out of Lots' house?

Is that where you learned all the Greek, Latin, etc., etc. you made sure we knew you studied?

Parkerbrothers,

Have you lost so much of your stated maturity that you must resort to name calling?

"You friutcakes can babble all night long with the nuts you were put togther with by no choice of your own as you say. I can hear you all now, "That's just the way we were baked", "That's just the way we were baked", "We had no choice", "They just mixed us all up and put us in here together"".

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 7:13 PM

Ever think you were one of those nuts? Because out of all the people who post on here, YOU, sir, are the biggest nut of all. Why, let's just name you 'Brazil nut' (that's the largest one I could think of off the top of my head).

And then resorting to calling us "you nasty devils"? My God, you must be 8 at the most. Your maturity level certainly raises you no higher than that.

AGAIN, Parkerbrothers, I personally challenge you: If you can find a passage in scripture where God or Jesus directly say "Being gay is bad" (or a smiliar phrase), I will remove myself from the blog.

Yes darling, I was one of those people. I spoke Latin to them, which had not even been formed partly yet. And of course, THAT is the voice of angels. Not Hebrew, or Tongues, or anything like that. No, LATIN is the language of God.

The only person being deceived by reality is you.

Really, I don't give a damn what you think of me anymore. You can call me knows, insinuate I'm gay, that I lust for women, that I commit sodomy, and whatever else your mind can come up with. The thing is, you're wrong. About really everything. I only mentioned I knew Latin and Greek when discussing the books of the Bible in ANOTHER blog - where I stated we should learn about them in their native languages.

Is there any computer function you know besides copy and paste?

Richard,

I apologize, my figures on the death tolls were averages from the 80s, but still we arent losing a whole lot more than average of peacetime from the figures youve shown. I do wish we didnt lose any though. I do admit I am wrong, thank you for calling me on it.

Jesuslovesevery1,

The reason I am complaining is because I am tired of immorality being shoved down our throats. It breaks my heart to see the shape our society is in. From listening to you and others, we shouldnt condemn any behaviour. Everyone should just do what they want and everyone else should accept it. Im sorry, I cant agree with that. There is behaviour that should be frowned upon. If a man wants to have sex with his farm animals, hes not hurting anyone, then why stop him. If a 50yr old man wants to have sex with a 13yr old girl and shes consenting, then why should we stop them. If brother and sister want to get married, well their not hurting anyone either. You see if we keep on then there will be no morality left, we will be a depraved and sick society with no limits on behaviour. (actually we are already there I think)

You see if we keep on then there will be no morality left, we will be a depraved and sick society with no limits on behaviour. (actually we are already there I think)

-- Posted by greasemonkey on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 11:23 PM

I also think we may be there and a lot of people on here seem to like that society. It is disgusting.

And then resorting to calling us "you nasty devils"? My God, you must be 8 at the most. Your maturity level certainly raises you no higher than that.

Posted by phoenix_rising on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 10:51 PM

Go back and re read the post. I never called anyone in particular a nasty devil. You just seem to think someone was talking to you. Or maybe the shoe just fit and you thought you were Cinderella and lay claim to it. It never ceases to amaze me how I can simply mention a word and someone answers to it. Did I associate your name with "fruitcake" or "nasty devils". I think when you reread the post you will now see it was only yourself who thinks they are one or both of the two.

As far as the age of 8, let's try 4. Let a child of 4 see even two animals engaged in homosexual acts and the first words out of their mouths will be "That's nasty". A simple childs mind can discern evil and nasty from good and clean. It is only when we get old and all knowing do we loose sight of simple knowns.

Grannyapple, you are a breath of fresh air to this blog.

There seems to be a pattern here:

1. Michael starts a blog that is somewhat outrageous, then opens the doors for us to begin talking about whatever we want.

2. Everyone on here takes one of two sides: the conservative or the liberal (And I don't mean these in political views. I state "conservative" as being very strict to the Bible and NOT leaving it open to interpretation; I state "liberal" to mean people who are willing to discuss the different aspects of faith, not just what is written in black and white [and red, in some Bibles]).

3. The liberals seem to do want to discuss the article, idea, etc. I know that I fall into this category, and I joined this blogs because I want to know what other Christians think. Of COURSE we won't all believe the same things. That's because we're all different and think differently. What a blessing from God that is.

4. In expanding liberal ideas and trying to examine/grasp/constructively criticize the argument, the conservatives jump in and attack the liberals personally. That is a fallacy of debate, and shows how few people here know how to debate. You don't call a person "a nasty devil" or "a fruitcake" or "needing Ben-gay" because of their beliefs. It shows how weak the individual argument is.

5. Eventually, the argument runs around and around in circles until we are doing little but name calling, and the liberals still try to protect and express their ideas, while the conservatives seem to be shoving them down our throats.

6. At this point, Michael usually starts another blog, and the cycle continues.

If we could ALL step back for a few minutes and remember what all of these blogs are about - this is about transgendered people. LaBarbera, who is a Christian, brings forth a Christian point of view. Do we all have to believe it? NO. It's called free will and free thinking.

People, look at the world around you. How would you feel as a parent to have a baby born asexually and you have to make the choice for that baby to be a boy or girl, only to find out 10 years down the road that the gender you chose is not compatible with their hormones. I can't imagine more of a personal Hell: being forced to live in a body that I knew was wrong. Please, understand, I am a Christian and pray to God I never have to make that choice for a child. But God created those asexual people just as he created us in his image and likeness. You could equate this (somewhat) to changing the haircolor God gave you. I'm a redhead, but have gone blonde for many years. Does that mean that I am going against God's will? Do we really want to force gender roles back upon people, making women wear skirts and leave the workplace? It does not bother me on bit if a transgendered individual worked with me. I know the issue about using the same bathroom has been brought up. If you're that worried, put toilet paper down on the seat. But remember, there are bathroom stalls so that we can go in there and handle some personal issues as well. I know I wouldn't want everyone seeing me go to the bathroom if I had to fix a "wardrobe malfunction". Was it that long ago that we had this same segregation with blacks? Are we reverting back into a society where Jim Crow will apply to gay people now? What next? Attacking people who live together but aren't married? I fear for the society that becomes so closed minded that no one can be accepted.

I'm not trying to jump down on anyone but it seems a bit odd to condemn someone for homophobia then taunt them for being a closeted gay as if homosexuality were a terrible thing.

Yes,I realize that may have been a reference to deceit,self-hatred,etc. but how would it have sounded for civil rights advocates to address blacks who were "passing" with words like "nigger","jungle bunny", references to chitterlings and watermelon,etc.)?

It just sounds a bit weird.

I agree that while we may have tendencies toward certain behaviors based on our genetics and environment,we have been given free will and the option of grace to determine how we direct our lives.

Alas,I don't think our amount of self-determination is complete.

My humanity may have stuck me with being a sinner (albeit forgiven) but if I'd had my druthers about which sins I got forgiven for,I'd have picked a classier,more socially acceptable set than the ones I've got.

phoenix_rising,

I think your actions late last night and this morning show you have already helped turn this blog into a more positive idea-sharing forum.

I will try to do my part also on biting down on that slippery thing in my mouth.

I will not change my beliefs but maybe the grit of the sandpaper a little.

Smart teacher.

I'd add a paraphrase of Einstein's corollary:

"A theory should be made as simple as possible-and no simpler."

For those who like things a touch more complicated,try Crabtree's Bludgeon:

"No set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated."

I rather like Uthman's Razor as well.

"Of two equally plausible explanations, the more cynical one is correct."

We might do best if we applied Friar William's sword and not just his razor.

1. Entities are not to be multiplied beyond necessity.

2. Entities are not to be eliminated beyond necessity.

3. Properties of entities are not to be multiplied beyond necessity.

4. Properties of entities are not to be eliminated beyond necessity.

Quantumcat's Depilatory:

Truth has no obligation to conform to our wishes or conventional wisdom.

This is true.

But I'd still advise against shooting it if it's wearing UT colors and listen if anyone reports seeing a platypus with a kazoo. ;)

Lot had sex with BOTH of his daughters.. Why don't you post that? Because quite possibly, it would discredit him as being "righteous" and it will also disprove the real reason the city was destroyed...

My problem with that is this, talk about the Old Testament all day long, but don't forget who came to change all that...

You might enjoy reading Romans 7:4-6, you know, it's right after the chapter where Paul denounces "men lying with men..."

Do you think God is still worried about the people who are doing no harm to anyone? Do you think he has time to care about which plumbing he gave Steve or Nicole and whom they fall inlove with. NO! I mean after all, if we had to choose from the list of things to protest

1. War

2. Murder

3. Poverty

4. Healthcare

5. Economy

6. Obvious global deterioration

7. Famine

8. Government corruption

9. Racism

10. Gay rights

We know which one that Jerry Falwell(would have), Westboro Baptist Church, Michael and you would be most concerned with... Be your brothers keeper, and since God has blessed you so much, it would be a better service to him for you to show that side of you... I guess it's a little harder to be content with your own happiness, but in the meantime try not ruining everyone elses.

Lastly, I have NEVER seen all this "shoving their lifestyles down our throats..." you speak of. Though I have seen you, Michael and others shoving your lifestyles down theirs.

One more thing, if you are going to speak of all things abonimable unto god, you should begin with shrimp, lobster, ham, rabbits, two seeds sown in the same field, one piecs of clothing intertwined with multiple fabrics, children backtalking their parents (stone them to death, by all means)... That's why you read the Bible with an open-mind, because it is "detestable" things such as those, that are in the same books as the 6 admonishments to "homosexuality"... Good day. I will not respond again, so just save this to your folder and when you go to repost all the things everyone ever said, remember this one too.

Lot had sex with BOTH of his daughters.. Why don't you post that? Because quite possibly, it would discredit him as being "righteous" and it will also disprove the real reason the city was destroyed...

-- Posted by nascarfanatic on Sun, Mar 30, 2008, at 3:41 PM

The reason I did not post it was because it was not an answer to any of the questions I was asked.

I am sorry you are offended by my answer. It seems like if I answer your questions I am condemned. If I don't answer your questions I am condemned.

Perhaps it would work out better if you did not ask me a question if you do not want an answer.

Also I did not elaborate on Lots' daughters sleeping with him because it made the homosexuality look even worse than I thought everyone might be able to bear.

The shear thought of him loving his God enough to prevent the detestable acts of homosexuality from occuring by offering his daughters painted a big enough picture of the degree that the detestable, vile, filthy, unnatural, defiling, and lustful act of homosexuality was considered to God.

Your mentioning of Lots' daughters sleeping with him makes me ask myself the question..."If God allowed that and considered Lot and his daughters righteous and the only one worth saving in Sodom what kind of wrath did he actually have planned for Sodom?

In reference to your comments:

"My problem with that is this, talk about the Old Testament all day long, but don't forget who came to change all that..."

"You might enjoy reading Romans 7:4-6, you know, it's right after the chapter where Paul denounces "men lying with men..."

Nascarfanatic, you are a hard man to understand and respect. I would really like to respect you and what you say but you make it hard. In the two comments above you made you make reference to Jesus and Romans of which Paul authored. How do you expect me to respect your thinking when just recently you make comments like the two below:

"Because the same people that tells kids Jesus is real, tells them that Santa Claus is real. hMM..... It's no wonder!"

"Hey darrick, I know you don't want to do greasmonkey's research, but I will go ahead and post what I know about Paul the Fraud..."

That just does not add up nascarfanatic. Why do you even bring up Jesus or tell me to read Romans when you think its author is a fraud.

I just do not understand what has a hold of you.

I am not poking any fun at you at all on such a serious matter. I am just simply concerned whether you choose to believe I am or not.

Again.."One more thing, if you are going to speak of all things abonimable unto god, you should begin with shrimp, lobster, ham, rabbits, two seeds sown in the same field, one piecs of clothing intertwined with multiple fabrics, children backtalking their parents (stone them to death, by all means)..."

Gotta love how you divert the attention all back to one issue, about some things I mentioned concerning the Bible... Forget about that, and answer the questions, don't dance around them like you have become a pro at.

Since all of this and Sodom and Gamorrah are in the same testament.. Can you tell me why you no longer think the rest of those things are "abominations"...?

HUH?

HUH?

michaelbell,

Now that some of the commotion has settled down on here I would like to comment on this blog about what you started it on.

I think your comment about we are on sinking sand and slowly slipping below the point of rescue should indeed be taken seriously.

The part that we all seem to forget is that it happens slowly. Christians are almost always working people and just seem to let little things slide until they run their coarse and they are manifested among us before we know it.

The barn door does not open fully all at once and all the herd come out of it at the same time. Only so many can fit through it at one time. If it did we never would have stood for some of the things we have and allowed those things to become open among us and appear to be accepted as okay now.

We really have no one to blame but ourselves since we are the ones that sit back and let it creep in slowly among us.

Prayer did not leave the schools in an instant.

Abortion did not become an in thing in a twikling of an eye.

The closet door of homosexuality did not sling open all at once and knock us out to where we were rendered useless in standing against it.

This overly passive nature of ours is what has given us these things to deal with on a larger scale now that we have allowed them the opportunity for their tap root to run deep into the ground.

I know this may sound repugnant and gross but I am not going to be suprised if we have people wanting the rights to be treated equally and marry their animal of choice within my lifetime. I remember a time already in my lifetime that if you would have ever mentioned men wanting the right to marry other men I would have thought that harder to imagine then men wanting to marry animals now. Actually I could respect a man more for asking the farmer for his female Holstein milk cows' hand (or perhaps to be more politically correct, hoof) in marriage than I can asking him for his sons' hand in marriage.

What all have we allowed to creep in?

jesuslovesevery1,

We have to respect everyone's rights even if they are not the next group to start demanding theirs.

Should not we respect the Buddist rights also? Or do they have to wait in line for a specified period of time before they can holler their rights are being violated or not acknowledged here in this country?

They may want to marry one of the female cows that they think got rebirthed. They might think it was the cute little girl down the road that has been rebirthed.

I know a lot of it sounds far fetched but so did homosexuals marrying not that long ago.

I do not think either one is right but I could stomach a man marrying a female sheep a lot easier than two men marrying one another.

We all see things differently but that is actually how I feel. Sorry.

quantumcat,

You are always over this country pumpkins head!(smile) I do not know exactly what you said but I guess it must have been good. Sounded good anyway.

Even though I can not always latch on exactly to what you are getting at I can still plainly tell you what I mean.

I respect everyone and their opinion and basic rights which are just as deserving as I am. I will not however except the idea of a man marrying another man. I will never believe a Christian would willingly and openly accept this behavior on any grounds instead of trying to steer (not intended as sarcasm) them away from it.

Even though it might be found that some people have genes that are more prone to stimulate certain behaviors in them than another human may have it will never change the fact that there is a choice to make. Whether it be genes that influence a thief to steal, a rapist to stalk, a junkie to shoot up, or even a homosexual to prowl I will never allow myself to be deceived into believing me or anyone with those genes does not have a mind to discern with and choices to make.

I hope you do not think I hate anyone. The only thing I hate is the flagrant actions. I have come to the conclusion though that no matter how much I want to see someone give up vile and filthy passions the choice I keep claiming they have is also theirs instead of mine.

I have even met 4 men in my life that had passions of lust for farm animals. One was drawn to a sheep, one to a horse, one to a cow, and the last one was drawn to everything in the barn including a tom turkey. I found I could talk to them until I had tears in my eyes as big as horse ***** and it was useless. I could not make a choice for them that they possessed.

I only mention this in passing because I do not want anyone to think I am foolish enough to believe I can make a choice for someone else.

I have enough choices of my own to answer for without wanting someone elses.

Hey, and what do you know about those "fetish toy powered by D batteries."(smile again)

Even though it might be found that some people have genes that are more prone to stimulate certain behaviors in them than another human may have it will never change the fact that there is a choice to make. Whether it be genes that influence a thief to steal, a rapist to stalk, a junkie to shoot up, or even a homosexual to prowl I will never allow myself to be deceived into believing me or anyone with those genes does not have a mind to discern with and choices to make.-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 9:34 PM

So in other words, those who are born with genes that make them white or black, have brown or blue eyes, red or blonde hair, must at some point use their mind to discern with and make a choice? LOL... It's exactly how absurd your method of thinking is.

I'm just glad you aren't God, though you sure do seem to pretend...

I'm still waiting on your to protest war, poverty, government lies, astronomical debt, etc etc etc. It's gotta be easier to speak out against people who don't even care what you think to begin with... You didn't ask anybody to grant you the right to marry, therefore nobody is going to ask you.

Laughable...

A man's desire for another man, is no different than a man's lust for another woman.

When you throw animals into the equation, it's just plain pathetic and shoes how far you must go to continue your childlike reasonings... It was fun while it lasted, ttyl

nascarfanatic,

A mans' desire for another man may not be any different than a man's lust for a woman in your eyes but it is in God's eyes if it falls outside the given parameters.

Keep in mind it is not the wrath of your eyes or mine that can or will torch the new Sodom and Gommorrah.

If the introduction of man mating with animal seems childish to you then you therefore consider your Bible childish.

It was a prevelant and known detestable and vile passion existing from the earliest of times. I am suprised you act as if it is new strange flesh I have concocted from an imagination. I hope you are joking and know better.

I would imagine that if they dig the entire Sodom site they will eventually find a man in the passion of lust with an animal among the char.

I was reading through this blog and was caught up with the idea that we should teach the Bible and that "Judeo-Christianity should be made the national religion and be taught in schools as a selective course for those who want it" (Michael Bell, Posted Saturday, March 29, 2008, at 6:06 AM).

I don't know how many of you study law, but there is a such a thing as the Law of Inclusion. It basically means that if one religion is taught in schools (these are public schools), then ALL religions must be taught in schools. Sorry, but I would feel uncomfortable with my child sitting next to a devil worshipper. I know these exist, but I still believe in sheltering children. That's why Christmas parades, etc. are not allowed in many cities - if they include that, and it is contested by, say Wiccans - then the Wiccans have every right to also have their own public parade or celebration, too.

The site oyez.com is the official website of Supreme Court cases. In doing some research, I saw that some cases were protected by the First Amendment (Lynch v. Donnelly), while others were not (Lee v. Weisman). In Lee v. Weisman, Mr. Weisman objected to a rabbi speaking at the school's graduation (the school was a public high school). The Supreme Court stated that the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment did not allow preaching at a public high school, middle school, or grade school ceremony.

" In a 5-to-4 decision, the Court held that government involvement in this case creates "a state-sponsored and state-directed religious exercise in a public school." Such conduct conflicts with settled rules proscribing prayer for students. The school's rule creates subtle and indirect coercion (students must stand respectfully and silently), forcing students to act in ways which establish a state religion. The cornerstone principle of the Establishment Clause is that government may not compose official prayers to recite as part of a religious program carried on by government." (http://www.oyez.org/cases/1990-1999/1991/1991_90_1014/)

Even spontaneous prayers conducted by a teacher or principle are not allowed.

I understand the want for many people to make Judeo-Christianity the national religion, but it has taken America over two centuries to decide English was the national language. Also, in America, our forefathers wanted there to be a separation of Church and State because of the injustices they had endured in England and other countries. (Remember, America was founded on the idea of free religion of ALL kinds.)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you want your child to learn Christianity, they should be in a private Christian school where prayers are not outlawed, but encouraged.

I hope this helps anyone who wondered why we DO NOT have prayer in public schools.

Have a blessed day.

AMEN!

Hmm, but the Bible does say sex outside the missionary position is not acceptable... I am quite sure if that's the case, there won't be enough room in hell for everyone, lol.

Deception82z,

I am the one that you reference in your post as "He claims to be a Christian, yet would rather support bestility than two men sign a committment paper together. It makes no sense to me."

I hope I can make a little sense of it. To start with I want to clarify I do not support bestiality in the least. I view it as the Bible does as vile and detestable.

To love your neighbor as yourself has never meant to be perceived as accept your neighbor as yourself. To love someone does not mean to agree with them or accept their any desiring behaviors. One of the hardest things I had to learn were you do not have to like what you love. Traditional America views love as merely an advanced form of like than comes after like in the process and is all accepting of everything you love. Love is actually the opposite of that.

You also made a comment that "Christian love was always taught as acceptance and forgiveness to me, but I guess I was lied to." It may be that you were not lied to but just not completely taught the entire truth. Yes forgiveness is the western cornerstone of Christianity but it was laid right after the southern cornerstone of repentance. Never did Christ teach to "Go and sin some more". He plainly said "Go and sin no more". If you can ever comprehend the wrath of a pure and perfect Father in the presence of sin you will then understand the depth of love of his Son. If you ever realize the depth of love of the Son and what has been done you will out of your own love for him not want to willingly be in the presence of sin that the pure and perfect Father is wrathful of.

I also want to say that the ones that do pick and choose from the Bible will be the ones that will only tell you only what you want to hear. They will usually be the ones that want to deny the wrath of a loving God and only tell you of his love side. They will give you every reason that you should stay in the deception. They will not be the ones that truly love you and tell you to....

" 18Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body....

and care about you enough to mention....

"9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

No, Deception82z, they would rather have you on the same sinking ship as them and use you to justify their own passions of willful continuation in sin.

Nobody that loves you would ever want to see you not inherit the kingdom of God.

quantumcat,

In reference to your comment:

"We need to permit all our people to have basic rights in regard to citizenship, health care,legal protections,etc. and,in our personal lives,we need to determine what sort of hearts and minds people are using in their relationships before we get too obsessed with what their genitals might be up to."

The only thing I want to ask you to think about is to consider that it could possibly be good if everyone was a little "obsessed with what their genitals might be up to" if the inheritance of the kingdom of God was a concern you wished to have these genital bearers possess.

Also you mentioned that we need to permit them to have basic rights of citizenship, health care and legal protection. This is departing from the ethical and moral issues but I still would like to ask you something. Do you think that we others should have to have taxes removed from our wages to help pay for this health care they may need when a sexually transmitted disease latches on to them that probably originated from some risky behavior in the use of those genitals? Especially after God and most of the rest of the world warned them of this behavior pattern for the last 2000 years?

I for one am tired of supporting all these causes financially that I do not believe in partaking of including smoking, drinking, drug using and non working that others willfully participate in regularly and diseases they invite onto themselves.

I might be able to get a day off more often if less of a burden was put on me to supplement the ones lacking in good sense and morals and they were made to pay for their choices.

They should be held totally accountable for the decisions they had as choices in making.

But as usual they want someone else to pay for their choices and use the old "God made me this way" or "The Devil made me do it" justification.

It is not easy to take a stand such as this. Actually it could be said and I know that it is so much easier for me to just turn the eye. After all I it is indeed not my genitals that may rot off from this behavior of theirs. I really question though how anyone that is a Christian can stand to see even a total stranger you have not met be deceived and support their behavior by not condemning it to them. To not condemn it to them is to support them in it.

delilah,

Whoa, whoa, whoa! You got to going just a little too fast there delilah. Let's back up and look at what was actually said in order.

_______________________________

When you throw animals into the equation, it's just plain pathetic and shoes how far you must go to continue your childlike reasonings... It was fun while it lasted, ttyl

-- Posted by nascarfanatic on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 11:43 PM

______________________________

If the introduction of man mating with animal seems childish to you then you therefore consider your Bible childish.

It was a prevelant and known detestable and vile passion existing from the earliest of times. I am suprised you act as if it is new strange flesh I have concocted from an imagination. I hope you are joking and know better.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 12:34 AM

__________________________

#1 - I am not going around telling someone what they can believe. I am telling you what I believe in. Only when you see the truth in what I believe in can you be lead to think I was telling you what to believe in. It is not me telling you what to believe it, it is your conscience. Easy to let happen. Hard to follow though.

#2 - Actually I can not literally call nascarfanatics' Bible childish because I have no idea what his Bible is. I know it is not like mine since he has discredited nearly all the books of the only Bible I know, as being written by a fraud. I am assuming he is an intelligent man that will not put faith in anything he believes is written by a fraud.

I do however see that the post could have been made easier for you to comprehend if I had more correctly said my or our Bible. The use of the word "your" Bible was meant to be understood as "the Bible" or "every Christians' Bible".

I thought the sentences following it clarified it but I accept responsibility for not being more specific for you.

Sorry for the confusion and hope I do not cause anything like it for you again. If I do I will try to clarify things again. Thanks

pleasebenice,

You are not the first person to let me know I need polishing. One of the biggest obstacles I have to actually work at is knocking the edge off of what I am thinking before it comes out of my mouth. The tongue is the hardest thing I have ever attempted to tame. Even though I realize I will go to my grave and never completely break it I am going to continue to allow the Holy Spirit to do his work on an impossible object. I am difinitely a piece of clay being molded into a better pot.

Deception82z

Thanks for caring enough to respond to something as this.

I think you misunderstand me. I do not think homosexuals are the only people who have sexually transmitted diseases. I do think willful homosexuals are at much greater risk for some of the STD's especially the AID's virus.

I have no trouble supporting the health care of people who you describe as your father. My only problem is with people who do things that the Bible, Surgeon General, Medical Professions, The Conscience and most everyone knows and warns is a serious health risk willfully and boastingly as all right until they need help and even then remain in a stubborn stage of denial and refuse to acknowledge they had a choice but choose insead to say either "God just made this way" or " the devil made me do it". That is what I do not like to sweat for.

I also did not say that the only one needing help reside in the gay community. Where did you read that? I do say that I do will not go and sweat in the field willingly to support a gay who willfully choose his lifestyle refusing to heed warnings and need financial assistance to treat his disease while he lays in the hospital bed still refusing to accept responsibilities for his actions (choices) and lay the blame over on God and defend himself by saying "God made me this way".

I think your conscience is talking to you and your are mistaking it for me saying something to you. Go back and read what I had said earlier and I think you will see who was doing the talking.

Disturbia,

Not everyone of the ones I was referring to literally all say "the devil made me do it" directly but most do refuse to take responsibility for their actions (choices) which in essence is the same as saying "God made me this way" or "the devil made me do it". I do admit that the "God made me this way" justification is the most popular today.

Are you thinking you can ever convince someone (other than a homosexual) that it is not a "choice" they can make to participate in the vile and detestable acts or not?

Let me be the first to admit I do not know anything about being a human compelled to engage in homosexual activities. Maybe I am assuming things I do not know. I am willing to learn. Can a human that for whatever reason (genitically or enviromentally)is drawn to engage in homosexual activities make a choice to not participate for some reason ( health, love of his God, time of day). Are you saying they are robotical in form and have not been given a free will and mind to decide with? If it is not a Choice they can make then who has made their choice for them ( God, Satan or a Stargate mechanic)? You have me confused. I thought we were all born with a free will and mind. Who made them if they are different? Everyone God created has a free will.

You are correct that if a gay couple wanted to buy a house I would sell them one. But by the same token if a gay couple wanted to buy 100 homes in one day my opinion of Gods' view of their lifestyle would not change. If they were to ask my opinion of homosexuality I would tell them the same thing day in and day out. I would hope they would still be interested in buying the house even though I am not buying into their lifesyle.

If you were to turn the question around, I would not be suprised if the same gay couple would not want to buy a house from me if I gave them my simple opinion of homosexuality. Odds are they would be the prejudice ones.

In reference to your comment:

"Considering you are on the verge of bankruptcy and have to sell X number of houses by the end of the year to keep your head above water. hmmmmm....seems that if you are the righteous man you claim to be, then wouldn't God be blessing you instead of watching you sink and falter?"

God has better things to be concerned with than my financial conditions. I believe he is more concerned with all of our spiritual conditions.

However, you seem to know about our financial conditions about as much as you do the free will and choice of man. You probably get your information from the same sources that produce your erroneous thoughts.

Your comments though will not induce me into your draw. There are only two people whos' comments on our finances would cause me to blink more than an eye. That is our Banker and Accountant. They have a completly different opinion than what you proclaim but let that be as it is. You are entitled to your opinion of our financial condition just as I am my opinion of a homosexuals spiritual condition. I do think someones spiritual condition is more valuable and should be of concern more than anyones financial condition and deserves more consideration?

I wanted to succumb to it but I made one of those things called CHOICES. I was going to write a song about choices but George Jones beat me to it.

"Livin and dying by tha choices I made"

Oh, and since you obviously make predetermined stereotypes concerning the HIV/AIDS disease, I'll prove you wrong...

More than 25 million people have died of AIDS since 1981.

Africa has 12 million AIDS orphans.

At the end of 2007, women accounted for 50% of all adults living with HIV worldwide, and for 61% in sub-Saharan Africa.

Young people (under 25 years old) account for half of all new HIV infections worldwide.

In developing and transitional countries, 7.1 million people are in immediate need of life-saving AIDS drugs; of these, only 2.015 million (28%) are receiving the drugs.

-WORLDWIDE-

People living with HIV/AIDS in 2007 33.2 million

Adults living with HIV/AIDS in 2007 30.8 million

Women living with HIV/AIDS in 2007 15.4 million

Children living with HIV/AIDS in 2007 2.5 million

People newly infected with HIV in 2007 2.5 million

Adults newly infected with HIV in 2007 2.1 million

Children newly infected with HIV in 2007 0.42 million

AIDS deaths in 2007 2.1 million

Adult AIDS deaths in 2007 1.7 million

Child AIDS deaths in 2007 0.33 million

*People infected in North America (U.S., Candada, and Mexico) 1.3 million or 0.8% of the ENTIRE population of THREE countries.

jesuslovesevery1,

I think I have noticed something that we both may not realize we are doing. We may actually both be thinking the same way but thinking about 2 different aspects of the same.

We may can find a way to see to agree at least on part of it.

When I say they have a "Choice" I want you to know that I am not talking about their genetic makeup which probably does have a prescribed combination that make them prone to homosexual tendencies. I firmly believe that a person can have genes that diffently can be linked to homosexuality and another person such as myself may not have any of those genes. If a person has those genes there is nothing they can do as far as I know to change those genes. The inheritance of those genes could never be a choice. I have never thought they could be or were. I believe sometimes you are thinking I claimed they have a choice about that.

The other side of it is:

I have said and still believe they have a choice as to whether they participate in the actual acts of homosexuality that they are drawn to by this possible inheritance of genes that make them prone to the draw. I have been thinking that you were saying they do not have that choice that can be made. My believing that you were referring to this as something they had no choice about is what has led me to think we were actually both right but wrong at the same time. I believe we were talking about two different aspects of the same thing.

I will also say I have no idea how strong of a pull those genes if inherited can have on someone and how hard of a struggle it might be to suppress the desires they could create. There is no doubt that it is a hard thing for anyone to comprehend just how hard it might be on them.

I do think all things are possible with God.

What do you think?

Parkerbrothers,

I appreciate the kindness. However, I think you misunderstood me a little. The few months of abstinence had nothing to do with my past or my father, just the fact that I wasn't attracted to men. I didn't choose to ignore him completely, it was a mind set that I could not escape. I have made it a point to not hold anything that has happened to me against my husband. I know that he had nothing to do with it. I believe that my past is what made me the strong person that I am now. I do not let my anger control me, and I won't. What happened in the past stays in the past (or just inside my mind). I am still learning to deal with everything that has happened, but I have never held it against anyone that wasn't directly responsible.

Deception82z

My opinion has not changed. You gave me two different people to consider. Although they were both the same person you did not present them as the same in each of the two different post. You presented your father in two different characters in the two.

I feel compassion for all the homosexuals. Enough compassion for their spiritual well being to tell them what they do not want to hear. Just because I do not lie to myself and them and support their activities as okay does not mean I do not love them.

Just as with your father, if someone loved him they would have told him what he was doing was wrong. Loving someone and having compassion is not about agreeing with their actions. Quite the opposite actually. If you love someone and have any compassion whatsoever in you, you will not sit by and let them harm themselves and others around them. Your father was harming more than just you when he treated you as you described. Even today that harm comes forward and has to dealt with even by people who were not even in that room so many days ago.

To make sure I leave no doubt in your mind about my opinion I will state it again. I have no hate toward any homosexual. Even the ones I will never meet or talk to in a lifetime. I have compassion and love for each and everyone of them as a person.

Their activities and sin is another story. I hate that sin as much as any including the many I have. I have a God who hates all sin and refuses to be in its presence.

I also have the opinion that a person who has homosexual desires is not a HOMOSEXUAL. Athough I at times refer to a person with these desires as a homosexual I do not mean to infer that is their primary being. They are a PERSON with a heart, mind and soul that has many desires both good and bad in them that they can make a choice about. I believe these desires are of different magnitudes within each individual and that they are the result of either a genetic inheritance or enviroment or more than likely a unique mix of both. Whatever the cause of these desires they all can be controled by making choices that will not jepordize our well being long term in lieu of satisifying our short term heat of the passion moments.

Whether these desires be to find another line to snort, person to have an adulterous affair with, a child to rape, house to break into or a mate of the same sex to have sex with they all involve the free will of people who can make a choice about their own vice.

To deny I have a choice to make is to deny I have a mind to think with.