However, I do find it amusing that you change your opinion after you hear someone's story, yet still remain detached from everyone's feelings that you do not know anything about. I'm bi and you feel compassion for me as a human, which is appreciated, yet you don't feel anything for the others. It's sad that you along with other people can judge someone before you actually know them.

Deception82z

In view of what you said about your father I would have to say that I would not like knowing I supported someone who did the things he did to you or any child. I wish I could turn back the hands of time and rescue you from it.

I know it must be hard to love any man after being betrayed by the very man who should have protected and loved you. Time can heal all wounds but it has to take a lot of time to get over being treated as you were. No one deserves to be treated as such.

As far as choices go, your father had a choice to make back then. He made one and it was a horrible one. Whatever the reason he may have gave, it does not excuse the choice he made to harm you and violate your trust. You on the other hand had no choice on who your father was.

One of the hardest things for me to understand is why God allows some things to happen as they do. I do know we become stronger by weathering some of the storms of life but I still question why at times.

Not all men are like your father though. It appears you have a great husband. He too has been affected by what someone other than himself has done to you. He has to pay himself for something he had nothing to do with. No wonder you love him dearly. Maybe God has blessed you with a much better than average man now to make up for the less than average man earlier in your life.

I know you do not want to hear it but I have to say that I still believe we have a choice to make about everything irregaurdless of our feelings. I know some choices are harder on one person than they are the other.

It is not you I condemn. It is the sin itself of engaging in homosexual activity. I actually feel for you. Even though I can not imagine the extent of your pain and drawings to some vise I can still say that I feel for what you have to be going through.

If ever you have to think about the love your father did not show again, try to replace it with the love your husband has for you and the love Christ has for all of us with similar problems we have to deal with. If you recognize what a love they have for you it might help in being able to return the love to them and live a life that is pleasing in the eyes of both of them.

Parkerbrothers,

In reference to your "the devil made me do it", we're going to get a little more personal here. You said you wouldn't mind supporting my father because of health reasons. I wonder if your opinion would change if I told you that he beat me everyday I saw him for three years. Everytime after he slammed my head against a wall or tried to break a bone in my body he said he was sorry, and him and my MOTHER would both justify the horrible act by saying it was the cancer or the medicines that he was taking. And now, after six years of escaping the abuse (God knows my parents didn't raise me, just collected the money for us minors, food stamps and all when my sister was bearing all the financial responsibilites by herself) I still have a lasting problem from all his crap. Is it fair for someone as worthless as him and my mom (who was able to work) to be supported and someone else not to just because they like the same sex? It's abolical.

As far as the choice goes to be homosexual, I really don't think that it's a choice. If it was then I'd pick the easier one to choose. Do you think that I enjoy being ridiculed if I tell someone? Do you honestly believe that I would ignore my husband (the man that I honestly love dearly) for months at a time because I don't find him sexually attractive on purpose? If I had a choice, I would forget all the feelings that I have and live an emotionless existance - that way no one else would get hurt in the process. It's not as simple as a choice. If it was, it'd be easy because of all the hardships homophobics like you like to defer to us.

I don't mind being "different", I just wish people would keep their own rude comments to yourself. You are completely ignorant on the topic of homosexuality and should probably do a little more research before you stick your foot in your mouth (and copying and pasting statistics doesn't do much for me). Most of the homosexuals that I know are some of the most caring and nurturing people I have ever met. Wish I could say the same for the type of Christian that you are.

And you are right about someone or something talking to me, it's actually my conscious telling me that I should not take anything that you say to heart or too heavily. If you remember correctly, even Satan (Lucifer) was God's favorite angel, just got a little too cocky doing his own work and tried to take over God's himself.

It's funny when you say "Are you saying they are robotical in form and have not been given a free will and mind to decide with? If it is not a Choice they can make then who has made their choice for them ( God, Satan or a Stargate mechanic)? You have me confused. I thought we were all born with a free will and mind. Who made them if they are different? Everyone God created has a free will.".. yet YOU never made a CHOICE to be straight, YOU just are, and always have been (i hope)...

So does that mean you are "robotical in form and have not been given a free will and mind to decide with"??? After all, since you never made a choice, and you think homosexuals DID, then it seems you are to robot who can not think for yourself... You act as if "freewill and making a decision" is a good thing, so long as it measures up to your choices and free will. Guess what, you're not God, and I thank God for that everyday.

parkerbrothers:

You did not succumb to the inducements!! Hallelujah!!

Parkerbrothers,

They do not claim that the "devil made them do it" Is it really that hard to pull your head out of your butt for 5 seconds and think that they were born that way. You just didn't wake up wanting to be straight, it was just the way you are, but I am seriously doubting that you are 100% straight considering how threatened you seem by homosexuals. And why is it just 2 men that concern you, are lesbians exempt from that because they turn you on in some sick way?

AIDS is the number one killer OF STRAIGHT AFRICAN WOMEN..NOT GAY MEN. You just talk and talk and talk and never have anything useful to say.

I guarantee you if a Gay couple came to you wanting to buy one of your homes you would happily take the money. Considering you are on the verge of bankruptcy and have to sell X number of houses by the end of the year to keep your head above water. hmmmmm....seems that if you are the righteous man you claim to be, then wouldn't God be blessing you instead of watching you sink and falter?

Also you mentioned that we need to permit them to have basic rights of citizenship, health care and legal protection. This is departing from the ethical and moral issues but I still would like to ask you something. Do you think that we others should have to have taxes removed from our wages to help pay for this health care they may need when a sexually transmitted disease latches on to them that probably originated from some risky behavior in the use of those genitals? Especially after God and most of the rest of the world warned them of this behavior pattern for the last 2000 years?

I for one am tired of supporting all these causes financially that I do not believe in partaking of including smoking, drinking, drug using and non working that others willfully participate in regularly and diseases they invite onto themselves.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 12:08 PM

I just don't understand how you can sit there and think that the only people who have sexually transmitted diseases and do things that you don't agree with or support are homosexuals. And don't give me statistics, by statistics I am 50lbs overweight, and should be 120, but if I go below 140 it looks like i'm starving myself. (I hate stats, they're hardly ever accurate.) It only takes one promiscuous act from ANYONE whether gay or straight to inherit a sexually transmitted disease. Sexually transmitted diseases do not care what your orientation is to "latch on". Most people I know that are not straight have their own insurance, so how are you supporting them financially? Sometimes you don't have to smoke, drink, nor do anything hap hazardous to your health to have something majorly wrong with your health. Take for example my father, he didn't smoke or drink or anything. He had cancer and therefore didn't work. You, along with everyone else who are paying taxes, paid for his medical bills. And like you, he was a "Christian" and was as homophobic also. He was a real piece of work also. But you can justify taking care of him, but not the people you do not like. It's amazing.

Don't get me wrong, I think if you're able to work you should. If you're able to work then you should be able to have health care and insurance and support your own families. I don't think that you should rely on the support of others to provide for your every mean. However, I do know that sometimes you just need a little extra help whether it be with medical expenses or food or just help with everyday financial responsibilities. It happens. So, how can you be so blatantly disregardful to say that the only ones who have these problems reside in the gay community?

I don't live off the government or tax payers. I have a fairly stable life without having anyone help me. That's funny, that I've been blessed, and neither me nor my husband believe in organized religion and I am bi-sexual. How ironic that someone like me can have a good life without all the problems that you speak of. Can you explain this? The devil didn't make me do it, any of it.

Parkerbrothers,

I must admit, when I first saw your comments a week or so ago, I was scared of you...Scared that the tactics you used to get your point across would cause more damage than good. But for the past few days, you have impressed me.

Your enthusiasm and resolve to tell the word of God has shone brightly. Keep up the good work.

parkerbrothers, you have no right to go around telling everyone what they can and cannot believe in. i looked at your sodom and gommora comment (date posted at the bottom of this page) and you called nascarfanatic's bible childish because of his/her beliefs.

i think some of your beliefs and views are childish. this blog had reached a peaceful point when you "accidentally" posted something controversial on another blog - a blog that would be incited by what you said.

if you want to be a christian, then be a christian. and if you want to live in a free country like america, respect other peoples' views. you don't have to like them, but you have to respect them. and calling people and ideas childish is not respecting the freedom our forefathers fought and died for.

perhaps a man in love with an animal is unnatural, but it is his freedom to express his love that way, just as it the right of a gay man or woman to love someone of the same sex, or a man to love a woman.

(in reference to a post by parkerbrothers on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 12:34 AM)

AMEN! Your words make alot of sense. Keep with it Deception82z!

(In response to: Posted by Deception82z on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 7:37 AM )

Don't think it is mentioned in the Bible. Has been taught by some churches but I would need chapter and verse to convince me.

What really amazes me is how many people like to pick and choose from the Bible which parts they can ignore or follow. Going by the Bible, isn't sex supposed to be solely for reproductive purposes only?

-- Posted by Deception82z on Wed, Apr 2, 2008, at 7:37 AM

I think the understanding that sex (as described in the Bible)is only for reproductive purposes and not for enjoyment is way off base. Just read the Song of Soloman. Quite sexy! Probably would make a good adult film.

You know what I find humorous about this blog? It is that every time gay marriage is brought up it is always in reference to two men usually by a man. I've never understood why it is alwyas more acceptable for two women to be together than two men. My question is how many men on here that are so against homosexuality have never HONESTLY watched an adult sex film? I do not think there are many to be honest - whether you claim to be Christian or not.

My thought is this: almost every straight adult film has at least one scene init that involves only two women. How is this different than two men being together? Yet this is more socially acceptable by the male gender. More men are homophobic that I know that watches these films and I ask the same questions to them. They always try to justify their answers, and say it's just less digusting. (They're all Christians, by the way.) Then I ask, "if you're so against gay men, why are you staring at a naked man on the video?" They usually get defensive at this point. It's all the same in my opinion.

What really amazes me is how many people like to pick and choose from the Bible which parts they can ignore or follow. Going by the Bible, isn't sex supposed to be solely for reproductive purposes only? Yet how many people take enjoyment from the act? Is that considered a sin? And I thought I heard that missionary was the only one favorable in God's eyes. I may be wrong, but I'd be willing to bet that everyone has deferred from this at one point in time.

Also, as far as picking and chosing goes, doesn't the Bible teach not to put anything unpure into your bodies - to treat it as a temple? Most medicines are man made and alters the natural function of the human body. God wouldn't have given us pain if he didn't intend for us to feel it. Man created a formula solution to pain, not God. He wouldn't have given us feelings if he didn't intend for us to feel. Sometimes, you can't control your feelings. How many of you have ever tried to stop crying at a tramatic time in your life and couldn't? There are those times that you just can't control your feelings like you can control a headache or muscle spasm or an infection. My point is that you can't pick and choose what you want to follow from the Bible and not be somewhat of a hypocrit. The truth is that there is no way to live life without being a hypocrit at some point. Think about it.

I don't understand why it is so hard to let people live thier own lives without making it harder for them to live it. Some homosexuals would rather die - and some choose to - than to have to face society. It isn't easy. They know they will be criticized by most people. The first person I told was my husband. I know how cruel society is, and this blog doesn't help to disprove my thoughts. If you are different, it's sometimes better to keep it quiet than to try for acceptance. It'll hardly ever happen. The understanding "Christians" that always say "you can talk to me or the preacher if you have a problem" are the ones that are the most cruel. If you don't fit into their belief, than you're wrong and are going to Hell. I.E. this blog. Take for example teh one who would rather see a man marry the farmer's pig than the farmer's son. He claims to be a Christian, yet would rather support bestility than two men sign a committment paper together. It makes no sense to me.

I just wish that there were more open-minded people in this world. I'm not saying that you have to agree with everything someone does, but accept that it is their life not yours. Then, MAYBE, the suicide rate would drop because of people feeling that there's no one to talk to. "Love thy neighbor" applies to nothing anymore. It should be if "if thy neighbor is different, emotionally lynch them". It's all just devasting to see society -humans as well as Christians- acting so horrible to one another. Christian love was always taught as acceptance and forgiveness to me, but I guess I was lied to. Maybe I am wrong about everything, but I really don't think so. Good day.

The issue is caring enough for the other parties that it doesn't matter what one wants if it hurts another person.

The people who exploit others sexually or in any other way are getting their kicks at another's expense.

Their jokes on the 'Net can wind up offending innocent children.

That's sick whatever their preferences are.

That doesn't mean that we get to forfeit our decency by dragging them behind a truck,lynching them or hanging them on barbed wire.

We get to tell anyone when we think they are making a mistake.

We have to help them through their ordeals when making a right choice is difficult.

We have the right to prevent their expressing their wants at our expense.

But we don't have the right to impose our every whim on other people any more than they have the right to control our lives.

We don't have the right to treat them as worthless,hopeless and undeserving of the love we'd owe any of God's creation.

We don't need to disrespect God enough to say "anything goes" or disrespect one another enough to say we can't overcome our worst traits.

But we can't force all our views on other people and we can't equate love or physical attraction with heartless exploitation.

It's not the same.

Some would destroy a child's body with steroids,have a dog fight to the death or sore a horse in the name of sport.

Some would use lies and oppression in the name of their love for their creed or country.

Those aren't valid,either.

We need to stop equating the corruption and the excuses for the reality.

People in a loving relationship are not a danger to us.

People who can't be bothered with love are.

We need to permit all our people to have basic rights in regard to citizenship,health care,legal protections,etc. and,in our personal lives,we need to determine what sort of hearts and minds people are using in their relationships before we get too obsessed with what their genitals might be up to.

jesuslovesevery1,

Having brown eyes or blue eyes, red hair or blonde hair is not a sin in God's eyes. We are not told to be not deceived. Brown eyes will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

As far as nature goes....I wake up with brown eyes. The brown eyes do not change all day because there is no choice to make.

A thief wakes up and is not stealing. By noon he is however being tempted and yes he is more genetically inclined to steal than I am but...He has a choice to make using the free will we were instilled with. He typically will have to plan what, when, where and who he will steal from. All choices that must be made for the passion to progress. His buddy however comes by and is strutting. He feels the new passion of the moment stirring him and yes he is genitically inclined to favor this passion also more than someone with other dominating genes.. He has to make a choice now to postpone his planned theft and choose how to proceed with latest interceding passion. He will probably be faced with more choices to make now. Oral or anal, protection or no protection, gerbils or no gerbils. You see, it is not only a choice, it is several choices that have to be made before the passion is allowed to pass.

I could see you way of thinking if Jack was permenantly mounted to the back of Mack. However it is a choice to mount or to dismount. Homosexuals are not Siamese twins.

The law requires us have an exit sign posted everywhere I turn, over every door. I just happen to think it should be a law also for one to be installed on Macks back. I would also vote for posting it "no entry" to help them figure it out and see there is a choice or perhaps that they made a wrong turn in the heat of the moment.

I am sorry I feel that way but I honestly think it is vile and detestable and do not want younger people thinking everybody thinks it is okay.

We have personally seen this acceptance affect our family in a way that I regret and want to see stopped. My brother has a 6 year old girl who is precious. He adores her as I do. Nothing is more precious than a child.

His admiration showed so much that everybody told her she was "Daddy's Little Girl". Over a year ago she was on an office computer and typed in the words "Daddy's Little Girl" and got to see the definition of it that someone else got to choose for her. Her little brother got to see what "Daddy's Little Boy" meant also before it was stopped.

And before you go off on a tangent about how we should not let the kids on the computer I am going to tell you that they should not be denied a respectable right because of someone else wanting to exercise a detestable right of theirs that once was and still should be considered a crime against nature.

If we adhere to your way of thinking I suspect the saying "The devil made me do it" will be replaced with "God made me this way". Imagine giving everybody the right to use that excuse. Even Eve did not try that one.

You are entitled to your thinking and I respect it. I only ask you not to condemn me for mine.

nascarfanatic,

I see no need for a truce.

Only the need for the truth.

I know it is probably hard for some to believe but I indeed knew these four men and during their life grew to appreciate them. Never condoned their vile and lustful passions but respected them as souls.

These men were quite well known by many,especially the one of passion with the sheep and the other who swore by the Tom Turkey. I worked around them, dove hunted in the field with them, even drank a beer or two with them. Highly intelligent men who saw nothing wrong with their passions and would openly discuss it as though it was accepted. They never knew what a closet door was. Matter of fact, they would leave the barn door open while they partook of the passion.

Just because you have not witnessed it as you said does not make it ficticious.

You never witnessed the resurrection of Christ. It that ficticious?

Faith is believing in what we can not see.

Whether you see to believe is not from me. If ever around the Fosterville community ask someone about the passion of the Tom Turkey.

Nobody takes you seriously... Everytime you ALMOST make sense, you sound absolutely ridiculous.

You are making up stories just to sound articulate, thus actually seeming quite stupid. Some guys were falling in love with animals, you're crazy. You equate consentual love with thieves, rapists, and drug users... I ask you, who are homosexuals hurting? You act as if straight people who solicit sex, etc are immune from scrutiny... I have never witnessed any of this b/s you speak of, it's all a ficticious depiction of pure hysteria...

We get it, you're homophobic, well I'm stupidphobic, so let's call it a truce.

Maybe folks will start recognizing critters have thoughts and feelings,too.

A beast with free will over its life could be society's next advance and the one with the sentience to understand the significance of marriage vows could be the next big scientific breakthrough.

(That might even lead to gengineered humans who could make a lifelong committment to one another.)

If God could get desperate enough for a chosen people that He was ready to make Sons of Abraham out of rocks,he could get so hard up for beings who could take on the responsibility of a family that He wouldn't care what the participants were so long as they looked to Him as head of the household and followed His example as Protector,Provider and Lawgiver.

Before we slam people who want to make something holy out from a physical attraction to children,animals or the same sex,let's look at the people who trivialized the "normal" bonds so that support became no more than cash from an ATM and the person who met one's sexual needs became no more significant than a fetish toy powered by D batteries.

The lack of cherishing and responsibility in the "right" places hurt us more than people seeking love from new sources.

Is one form of selfishness that much worse than another?

He who disregards and disrespects one class of beings will damage them all.

He who cares will look after the welfare of the weakest even as he would God Himself.

It is our lack of a strong bond with God that leads to our fear and callousness.

It is because we do not think with His mind and feel with His heart that we let sin infiltrate our lives and create an "us vs. them" mentality.

If we saw one another through the eyes of our Creator,we wouldn't have to be asked about our rights or those of the person next to us.

We would think of the privilege of being God's proxies and we wouldn't need to be reminded of these words:

"First,they came for the Communists,the Social Democrats and the trade unionists but I did not speak out because I was not one of them.

Then,they came for the incurably sick,the gypsy and the antisocials and I did not speak out because I was not one of them.

Then,they came for the Jew and the Catholic and as I was Protestant,I remained silent.

Then they came for me-and,by that time,there was no one left to speak up for me."

We do not need to be looking for "escape clauses" for whom we owe our love.

We honor the rights of all beings because as we do unto the least of these,even so do we do to He who provides our rights and the responsibilities that go with them.

"Actually I could respect a man more for asking the farmer for his female Holstein milk cows' hand (or perhaps to be more politically correct, hoof) in marriage than I can asking him for his sons' hand in marriage."

This shows your true ignorance... actually by now, it's stupidity since you have continually used the same verbage over and over again...

Parkerbrothers, the reason you nobody takes you seriously, is because your argument is pure and total xenophobia.. when you talk about allowing same-sex couples to get married (you know to HUMANS, who can SIGN A CONTRACT), then irresponsibly say people may want to get married to an animal of choice... (ANIMALS, can't sign contracts, can't agree to terms and conditions, etc etc)

Overly passive nature of ours? Hmm... I have no idea what country you live in but gay rights are hardly recognized here, abortions are last resorts, and something you never have to personally decide..

By the way, prayer left our school the same decade "In God We Trust" was put on our money... Exactly what's the difference between that money and the money prior to it? It isn't a schools job to teach religion, that is why we have churches. Churches don't teach math, science, english, or many other things. They each have respective places, and neither should be intertwined.

HUH?

-- Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Mon, Mar 31, 2008, at 6:35 PM

Sorry, but I can not help you if you do not know what you are confused about?

HUH?

-- Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Mon, Mar 31, 2008, at 12:31 PM

You seemed confused by something. I take the blame for it if you are since I am not the best at explaining things sometimes. What are you confused about?

nascarfanatic,

The attention was on one issue because that was the issue at hand.

You do however bring up another good question of which I can only partially answer by saying that these things you mentioned did not come forth into the new testament as issues as did the sexual perversions.

I can only offer a few sciptures that touch on it at this time. These come from the New Testament that you have previously dicredited over half of as being written by "Paul the Fraud" and half of the remaining half being written by traveling companions of his. I wish you thought more of and respected these mens' lives they gave. It would make me feel that my time is not wasted posting these scriptures but I will anyway.

____________________

15There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

16If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

17And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

20And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

21For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

__________________

8But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

_________________

I hope that at least partially answered your question. It was a good one that I feel more time could and should be spent on. Why do you think they did not come forward as issues in the New Testament?

jesuslovesevery1,

Sorry for the delay in responding to you. I appreciate seeing you use your Bible to help find correct answers. I do not remember you making ridicule of the Bible so I am assuming for the time being that you respect it as God's inspired word.

I have read Ezekial many times and cherish it. I have read the versus you posted themselves even more times.

49Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

50And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

When I read the two verses, I see verse 49 giving the characteristics and personality enlightments of the people of Sodom.

When I read verse 50 I see a description of what they did and what God therefore did as a counter to their actions which were an abomination to him.

There is a reason for the splitting of verse 49 from 50. They were two different things.

The things of verse 49 are passive and considered iniquities.

The things of verse 50 are active and considered abominations.

It was the abominations that caused the taking away.

Also you have to see that Jude was refering to the same thing in his letter. Although he did not mention some of the iniquities of the people of Sodom he does tell what brought the vengeance of eternal fire on them.

7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

That is the way the Holy Spirits' has allowed me to understand these passages. I do not demand you to believe it but simply ask you to consider it sometimes when you read it again.

Also I have posted below some other views that shed some light on what Sodom was known for. One is from Websters' dictionary and the other is from Wikpedia. I may have the order of them mixed up but I do not think it will matter.

______________________________

Main Entry:

sod*omy

Pronunciation:

\ˈsä-də-mç\

Function:

noun

Etymology:

Middle English, from Anglo-French sodomie, from Late Latin Sodoma Sodom; from the homosexual proclivities of the men of the city in Genesis 19:1--11

Date:

13th century

: anal or oral copulation with a member of the same or opposite sex; also : copulation with an animal

-- sod*om*it*ic \ˌsä-də-ˈmi-tik\ or sod*om*it*i*cal \-ti-kəl\ adjective

_______________________________

Sodom is subsequently destroyed by a rain of sulfur and fire. From this biblical narrative the word 'Sodomy' is derived and has henceforth come to be synonymous with anal intercourse (particularly between two males) and sometimes also to describe human-animal sexual intercourse (also known as bestiality or zoophilia);[3] this is the primary meaning of the cognate German language word Sodomie.

_____________________

And lastly I thought I would include some history of it from a source that should be supportive if anything toward homosexuals. It is found at www.gayhistory.com. It is written by a gay or homosexual man. Here it is:

________________________________

words: Sodomy

Coined around 1050, "sodomy" is still used in some American states to refer to the crime of sex between two men, and sometimes to particular sex acts between men and women. Historically, its exact meaning has varied across time and place. Usually, it has referred to sex between men - especially anal intercourse - but in some countries at varying times it has also been applied to anal intercourse between men and women, sex between women, and even bestiality.

When St. Peter Damian coined the term in the 11th Century, he was naming a sin that had earlier been referred to only vaguely as the "sin of Sodom". Peter included masturbation as one form of sodomy - albeit the least serious - but this usage did not stick (see Onanism).

The term is derived from the prototypical fire and brimstone story of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis Chapters 18 and 19. It begins with a conversation between the Lord and Abraham. The Lord knew that Sodom & Gomorrah were peopled by wicked men, and he told Abraham that he was about to destroy them. Abraham pleaded on their behalf, and after arduous negotiations, the Lord agreed to spare the cities if just ten good men lived there.

To find out, the Lord sent two angels to spy on Sodom. They were greeted by Lot, Sodom's last good man. He invited them in and fed them, but before they could retire, the men of Sodom surrounded Lot's house and demanded that his guests come out that they might "know" them. The angels, aware that "know" meant sex, "smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness" but the men kept trying to get in.

The angels told Lot to flee because they would destroy the city. After a brief protest, Lot gathered his family and escaped. The next morning, Abraham rose early, and from a high vantage point, he saw the entire plain where Sodom and Gomorrah sat ablaze; "the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of the furnace".

Contemporary theologians interpret the biblical text in a variety of ways - maybe it was just part of the origin myth of the Hebrews - but St. Peter interpreted the text literally. It was sodomy, sexual desire between men, that destroyed the "cities of the plain".

____________________________

All the above definion and explanation is from the gayhistory website.

I have not offered any of the above information as a means of expressing any hate toward homosexuals. The only thing that is hated is the sin of it itself. Not them.

I have to laugh at what Parkerbrothers posts... He always searches for the negative things that biblical authors had to say... Will he ever be content/happy and post anything positive? How about just posting the ENTIRE truth...

Ezekiel 16:49-50: Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

What reasons does this passage give about Sodom? They were proud and arrogant. They had fulness of bread, in other words they were self-indulgent. Abundance of idleness - they were lazy. They assumed NO responsibility for poor people, they had no social conscience. They were haughty - "stuck-up" with an attitude of superiority, arrogant. They committed "abomination" before God ("to'ebah," something disgusting, especially idolatry.) Abomination included such things as eating shrimp or catfish, and having sex while the wife was having her period. A disobedient child was an abomination to God and was supposed to be stoned to death! The list goes on forever

Isaiah 1:9-10: Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah. Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

Jeremiah 23:14: I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

They committed adultry, again specific sexuality immorality, and were liars and decievers. They supported and gave legitimacy to the godless ones, those who had no place in their heart for God. God says that THIS is how they remind them of Sodom and Gomorrah.

You will notice that the above passages make a strong statement about these cities, comparing them with the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Where was homosexuality mentioned? Where? How many times was adultry specifically mentioned?

In the cultures of the Old Testament the laws of hospitality were something not to be taken lightly. Cities were usually enclosed and strangers who wandered in were not always welcomed. The story in Judges 19 describes an incident very similar to the Sodom and Gomorrah story. The Benjamites had grown cold and hard-hearted over the years and were not open to entertain a stranger in distress. They were called the "sons of Belial," children of the devil, ungovenable, untamable.

A wandering Levite, with his wife and servant, found himself stranded in the city, having to sleep in the dangerous street all night. However, there was one old man who had not lost all of his compassion and whom invited them in. The men of the city made a rude, disrespectful assult on the house of this man and demanded to see the people inside.

Judges 19:16-22: And, behold, there came an old man from his work out of the field at even, which was also of mount Ephraim; and he sojourned in Gibeah: but the men of the place were Benjamites. And when he had lifted up his eyes, he saw a wayfaring man in the street of the city: and the old man said, Whither goest thou? and whence comest thou? And he said unto him, We are passing from Bethlehemjudah toward the side of mount Ephraim; from thence am I: and I went to Bethlehemjudah, but I am now going to the house of the LORD; and there is no man that receiveth me to house. Yet there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing. And the old man said, Peace be with thee; howsoever let all thy wants lie upon me; only lodge not in the street. So he brought him into his house, and gave provender unto the asses: and they washed their feet, and did eat and drink. Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

The old man offered his virgin daughter and his wife to the mob.

Judges 19:23-24: And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly. Judges 19:24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.

They took his wife and they "knew" her. The Hebrew word is "yadah," to acknowledge, to become aquainted with, to comprehend, to learn, to know. "Yadah" appears by itself no less than 943 times in a nonsexual connotation. The word is used ten places in the old testament to denote heterosexual intercourse. It is used five times inconjunction with "mishkabh" to mean the same thing. I repeat, "Yadah" appears by itself no less than 943 times in a nonsexual connotation.

Judges 19:25-28: But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.

The men assulted her, violently raped her (heterosexual rape) and left her for dead. Are we to conclude from this passage that heterosexual sex is a sin, an abomination to God? What a ludicrous thought. Of course not!

The issue isn't sex...the issue is violence with the phallus as the weapon of choice.

With these things in mind, let's look at Genesis 19. God sent two messengers to visit Lot, who welcomed them at the gate of the city. They went to Lot's house where they were treated as guests. Then the word got out that unwanted strangers were in town.

So, what do you think? Were Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed because of homosexuality? You have read the Bible's own interpretation of the story. To simply say that the cities were destroyed because of homosexuality or because of sexual immorality is showing blatant ignorance ot the passage.

In a nutshell, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because the people had become terribly evil and had totally turned away from God. They had forsaken Him completely. These long passages tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for that evidence.

ƒÞ Posted by phoenix_rising on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 9:51 PM

And PB, You have YET to respond to Vindicated's eloquent words which completely tell the truth about Sodom and Gomorra. Night.

ƒÞ Posted by nascarfanatic on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 10:46 PM

Had nothing to do with what you call Sodomy... And you claim to know the Bible... Try again.

ƒÞ Posted by darrick_04 on Thu, Mar 27, 2008, at 11:32 PM

THIS IS WHY SODOM WAS DESTROYED...PLEASE DO SOME RESEARCH..

Classical Jewish writings affirm that the primary crimes of the Sodomites were, among others, terrible and repeated economic crimes, both against each other and to outsiders.

-- Posted by Vindicated on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 5:12 PM

Parkerbrothers, YOU STILL haven't shown me where JESUS denounced it.

ƒÞ Posted by darrick_04 on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:28 PM

You keep talking about the God of our Bibles? He seems much kinder than yours. And if you can find a passage in scripture where God or Jesus directly say "Being gay is bad" (or a smiliar phrase), I will remove myself from the blog. But, of course, if you had found such a piece of scripture already, you would have flung it in our faces through posting the same blog 8 times over.

-- Posted by phoenix_rising on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 6:43 PM

Oh, PB, any remarks about Sodom and Gommora don't count. Read your Bible and stop making assumptions as to what a word could mean and look for the real definition.

ƒÞ Posted by phoenix_rising on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 7:03 PM

Your history on Sodom and Gomorra is so wrong...Stop bringing it up, PB.

-- Posted by phoenix_rising on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 10:12 PM

AGAIN, Parkerbrothers, I personally challenge you: If you can find a passage in scripture where God or Jesus directly say "Being gay is bad" (or a smiliar phrase), I will remove myself from the blog.

-- Posted by phoenix_rising on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 10:51 PM

BTW...Parkerbrothers, still waiting on that evidence. Since you have so much time to pick apart all these other blogs and tiny bits and pieces of what people say, surely you can spare a few minutes to find where, in the Bible, Jesus said gays were bad.

-- Posted by phoenix_rising on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 11:11 PM

TO ADDRESS ALL THE ABOVE COLLECTIVELY:

As some of you mentioned there is nowhere Jesus directly denounces homosexuality in the Bible. I think some things do not have to be directly denounced to know they are detestable, vile, filthy, unnatural, defiling, lustful, etc., etc. to Jesus.

Some of you offered reasons for the destruction of Sodom which you obtained from classical Jewish Writings.

I can only offer you what the Bible does say about both that was given to us with the assumption everything did not have to be directly told to us to know it applies. Allowing the Holy Spirit to help discern truth will help in reading the following written by Paul and Jude of whom each gave their life defending their belief.

JUDE:

7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

PAUL:

26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

I ask you to look at one more reference to homosexuality and think about it with an open mind.

GENISIS:

5And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

6And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,

7And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

8Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Lot was willing to give these men his own daughters in order to satisfy the lust of these men and have them not do what he termed wicked. How many of you have daughters you would offer in order to keep men from doing something wicked and detestable in Gods' eyes. You have to also remember the men in Lots' house were the men God had just told Abraham he was sending to find out what was happening in Sodom before he destroyed it. These two men were 2 of the 3 that had just met with Abraham. These two went on to Sodom and the third (Lord) stayed behind with Abraham for a brief period longer. Lot was a righteous man and spared by God. He had to have known God just as his uncle Abraham did. I think when you look at the evidence you have to say Lot thought homosexuality was a serious offence to this God he knew. He shows his true evaluation of it when he listens and gets his family out before Sodom is destroyed.

Not trying to offend anyone. Just telling you what my source has to say.

Not asking anyone to believe me. Just respect my opinion and source as I will yours.

Simplified- "If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its gotta be a duck." right?

Well, as for the homosexuality part of this topic. A teacher once told me when someone has multiple explanations for something that just doesnt seem right, use Occam's Razor as a guide.

I admit that these blogs have gotten out of hand. If I have offended anyone with my views, or especially my words, I sincerely apologize. It seems we all can get caught up in ideas and take them the wrong way, and in turn, respond badly. I know I have. I do apologize to anyone I have offended, and hope we can turn these blogs into more positive idea-sharing forums instead of name-calling and one-upping each other.

Parkerbrothers, the reason I made comment about the "nasty little devils" was because I saw it as offense. It is not because the shoe fit, or I saw reason in it because that's more, or however else you wish to justify it. I am merely calling you on something that probably should not be said. You are calling those you disagree with you devils - look at the posts before and after you comment - when you should at least try to examine their argument.

And when I mentioned the age of 8, I was referring to your maturity level. I know when I was 4, or even 8, if I saw heterosexual animals engaged in sex I would have said "Mommy, what are they doing? That looks gross". When I read "Jurassic Park", I learned of the mating rituals of crocodiles. It was NOT the best thing to read when you don't really understand sex. I thought it was gross, and was 11 or 12. Don't put an age limit as to what a child can or cannot understand. And please, stop taking remarks out of context, and I will try to do the same - as we all should. It will be a better discussion for us all. Please don't think I consider myself high and mighty for these remarks. I am just an observer.

Yeah, the government suddenly quit spending money and bunny rabbits started singing disney songs when we got a democrat controlled congress, at least thats what I think the papers and media said. (and the media is always right, good source of truth) I think I did see a show on the discovery channel where Bush may have a little boogeyman blood in him, they are still waiting on Dna tests to get back. I will repeat myself again. There is not one single person responsible for the shape this country is in, it is a collection of a ridiculously bloated government. I think Bush is quiet possibly the worst pres ever with the exception of a few (most notably carter) If any homosexual person is reading I do not apologize ,and do not wish for others to apologize on my behalf, for anything I may have said. oh yeah and there is no such thing as a pres that cares about the little guy, most of all in this election.

Good evening fellow lovers of the Most High. And are we being kind and considerate of everyone's feelings this fine evening. WWJD. Remember that old adage? DO you really believe Jesus would talk to his fellow beings in the manner that you are talking to each other. Darrick, I wish to thank you for "researching" my errors. I didn't realize that I would need websites to back up what I thought all was aware of. You know, the deficit, the war, the economy and other things that go bump in the night. I thought these people read the paper! Well, Just thought I'd thank you for explaining the obvious. Oh, and tell the one who doesn't know that when Bush passed many of his bills, he had a republican congress and senate and everything went thru like butter, but in the last elections, we got rid of those who were ruining America and maybe just maybe we will get a decent president who cares about the little guy not corporate America. You know, Bush professes to be a christian and yet, we have poor people dying for lack of health care, food and shelter. We have people who have worked hard all their lives and losing their homes because of bad mortgage practices. BTW: read the damn paper if you need the research on this, it is all there> and if you can't read, listen to the news, pick any station, this is BIG news, people. And if any homosexual person is reading these blogs, I apologize for anything that these pathetic people say that may offend you. They speak from a human point of view, not necessarily the God I love and worship. May God Bless and Keep all of you in his care.

nascarfanatic,

Why do you even mention Old Testament, Bible, New Testament, etc.,... when you have a regard for them as you have commented before.

I personally can not see how some of you on here can even mention any of those words with the respect you have had for them.

You all can tell us what you do not believe in, but you fall short when it comes to telling someone what you really believe in and where you obtained the information to establish your beliefs without having discredited your source earlier.

Let us all tell what we believe and from what we establish our beliefs.

Lets' stop overrunning questions of belief with disclosure of what we do not believe in.

If any of you would honestly go back and read these blogs you would see two distinct types on here.

One will tell you what they believe and are not ashamed to tell you where they establish their faith and beliefs and will stick to it.

The other will constantly tell you only what they do not believe and will avoid telling you anything they believe and can not provide you with a source they can use that has not been previously been discredited by themselves.

Some of you seem to have nothing to believe in and everything to not believe in.

nascarfanatic, why don't you start and simply tell me what you believe and have faith in and what source you use to establish your faith?

It is a simple question that seems to confound you. A simple answer will suffice.

I will read it in the morning if you have one.

Remember, just a simple answer will suffice. Do not tell me what you do not believe in. Only what you believe.

BTW...Parkerbrothers, still waiting on that evidence. Since you have so much time to pick apart all these other blogs and tiny bits and pieces of what people say, surely you can spare a few minutes to find where, in the Bible, Jesus said gays were bad.

Parkerbrothers, being unhospitable to others and not taking care of the poor is what God destroyed them for....

Have you turned over the salt shaker lately? Be careful, don't look back.

And weren't you going to bed at 7ish? I'm still waiting on that dream to come true...

Move BEYOND the Old Testament... We can speak of sins that it elluded to all day long. But you know JESUS, that man you claim to know and love did not come to spread wrath and anger, hate and judging on his fellow man.

Parker there is a reason you are resented, because YOU harp on the same meaningless depictions of God's wrath, misconstrue the TRUE events of "Sodom". Remember a MAN decided to call those things "sodomy".. not God. So you should take a deep look into where your faith really lies.

K, thanks.

Thanks Phoenix...

Yeah.. I forget too.. BTW, Diana, how is your mom? I need an update if you wish to provide one... or email me, I posted it here. We can talk outside of here.

No, I don't know that you didn't talk with her. But I also don't know that you did talk with her. We only see what's on this blog. When you beat up people on here for different reasons, how do you know that they haven't been talking with others similarly?

-- Posted by cfder on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 10:27 PM

I PROVIDED THE RESEARCH THAT SHE FAILED TO PROVIDE.. I ALWAYS DO.. RIGHT?

No, I don't know that you didn't talk with her. But I also don't know that you did talk with her. We only see what's on this blog. When you beat up people on here for different reasons, how do you know that they haven't been talking with others similarly?

phoenix,

I don't want to admonish granny. I only want Darrick to be consistent. I agree, he does his research, and as such, he probably is rightfully concerned that no one else does as much as he. Because of this, he complains to the rest of us, in no uncertain terms, to give him proof or references to back up claims. When granny made statements that were obviously her opinion about the national debt that were wrong, Darrick didn't chime in once.

I know the connection. He knew her heart. But everything anyone says on these blogs cannot always be backed up. I would hope he wouldn't flog the rest of us when it happens again.

Your history on Sodom and Gomorra is so wrong...Stop bringing it up, PB.

There is a difference between lust and love. Do not be deceived.

Those men calling the angels out of Lot's house made have had a warm fuzzy feeling but it was not love. It was lust.

Love is what destroyed Sodom, much like spanking a child.

Maybe now you can see how love and wrath can be the exact same and total opposites at the same time.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 10:05 PM

Last time I checked Vindicated explained to you what happened in Sodom and Gomorra...

Why does two people who have been in COMMITED, LONG-TERM relationships have to be termed "in lust"... You make absolutely no sense. A guy wanting to be loved by another guy, is no more lust than a guy trying to fall in love with a girl. You have no truth to your claims at all. Just pure hyperbola.

parkerbrothers,

Are you saying that spanking a child will destroy them? If so, I was spanked a as child, and I turned out just fine. Please elaborate.

or you can always email me darrick_04@yahoo.com for a more calm and collective debate...

Darrick, Jesuslovesevery1, and Nascarfanatic,

Thank you! Perhaps we can bring some sense BACK into this conversation...

And Parkerbrothers, do some research OUTSIDE of a Christian resource. Homosexuality is not a phase, habit, etc. When will you understand that?

Didn't see granny's name anywhere.

PARKERBROTHERS:

It's no wonder all of those homes remain empty in your lovely "Utopia Station"....

Don't you think God would have blessed you with more than TWO of the homes being sold? (one of those in which you live)

-- Posted by nascarfanatic on Fri, Mar 28, 2008, at 9:41 PM

nascarfanatic,

He will bless me as he sees fit. Not as I see fit. He always has.

The blessing of his Holy Spirit is the blessing worth all.