Amen! and thank you.

Michael,

I do not see how you can say that you detest the sin and not the person when you say that if your child was "turned that way" that they would be welcomed in your house, but their "other" would not. Wouldn't they both be guilty of the sin that you detest so? Just because they "turned that way" makes them any less of a person with any less rights? Just leave him out on the sidewalk with the rest of the trash, huh? Very Christian like love. God would frown, I believe. But, wait, wouldn't that be considered riding the fence, just a little?

Speaking of riding the fence, isn't taking the life of a child taught to be wrong no matter what the circumstance? If God made everyone and loves everyone, shouldn't even a child born of these "special reasons" be loved by God? You say that "most people today don't believe in a absolute right or wrong just keep riding the fence row in the middle". How are you any different?

You say that your children are "being taught that there is an absolute truth and right and wrong according to the Bible" yet you believe that there are "special reasons" to kill a baby. Now, I haven't read the Bible in a while, but as I recall "Thou shalt not kill" is one of the Ten Commandments. I don't think it reads "Thou shalt not kill, except for special reasons". Maybe the Bible that I read doesn't have all the fancy preachers notes that you have in yours.

And just who's rights do you think you're not stepping on by constantly ear/eye raping everyone reading the blogs with your outrageous opinions? You push the beliefs that you were spoon fed on everyone that reads your blogs, yet you constantly condemn them for having another opinion/belief and constantly contradict yourself. You make no sense whatsoever when you say one thing and then another. SO...pick a side of the fence row and stay there. It's really not that difficult.

Michael

There is no need to drop any subject of immorality and it has already hit close enough to home. They would love for you just to sit back and let it keep crawling into acceptance until it reaches a point even we are not accepted if we are not part of it.

If no one speaks out against it we could become like Sodom and Gomorrah again. I am sure both of those places did not just wake up one day and accept homosexuality. It crept in over a period of time. Let's not make the same mistake as Lot and wait until they are beating your doors down and you have to offer your daughters in an attempt to satisfy their lust for sex so your God will not have to see the detestable acts of homosexuality. Lot must have thought God had a very strong wrath for homosexuality for him to have offered his daughters to the men in order to prevent an act of homosexuality. Lot must have been right because he delivered Lot from Sodom and destroyed it and the people who accepted it and/or participated in it. They would love for you to sit back and wait. Is that what you want?

You have every right to warn people of the attempt of acceptance of a vile and detestable sin whether it is homosexuality or bestiality or whatever it be.

^^^^HAHAHAHAHAHA^^^^^

jesuslives

You are right in that we all post our opinions to what we think is right. Michael should have the chance to post his also if not foremost.

As has been discussed earlier a lot of times we all do not understand what is really meant by what someone post on here.

I do not hear Michael saying all people choose to be homosexual. Maybe he does and I misunderstand what he is saying. I think I hear him say they can choose not to be engaged in homosexual activities. I also believe they have that choice. Granted it may a lot tougher of a decision than some of us have to make but it still comes back to being responsible for ourselves and making choices that are pleasing in Gods' eyes.

I think it is only because he cares for their spiritual well being that he tries to inform them. I do not see this hate some of you accuse him of or the horns sticking out of his head as others point to.

Only when someone does not care for you will they ignore wrong behavior and let you go on your own way.

You also brought up a good point when you used the word repent. That is the word I think a lot of people on here do not understand.

Perhaps you could demonstrate to us all a way you would like to see the word repent explained and then what God teaches about homosexuality in a way that you would like to see it done since you have made your suggestions and infer to a better way?

Parkerbrothers loves the gays so much so, but where did he ever show that? It seems the only people with a brain to think with are gays, if you really read what parkerbrothers is saying. Because apparently us straight people never woke up one day and said, "I think I'll be straight for the rest of my life..."

How can you agree that homosexuality could be genetic, yet you feel they don't have to act on their genetics? Oh I get it, try to resist your genetic makeup, that GOD installed in you???? Impossible. Makes no sense whatsoever. It is just like saying, God gave you blue eyes, but don't act on it, cover them up with brown ones just so everyone else will be happy. Even though it has NO effect on them whatsoever.

Parkerbrothers, why don't you make a list and mention your own "sins", or would that take too much time away from playing judge amongst all of God's people? I have a feeling all of the stones you've been throwing around will be the same ones that won't move once you're put in a tomb.

I don't think our sexuality is that voluntary.

If we could choose who we were attracted to,we'd probably pick our mates according to availability.

We wouldn't be influenced by the media and we wouldn't be following instructions from Nature about who needs more chlorine in their gene pool.

We all can choose to be faithful to our rightful spouse (even if we haven't met him or her yet) despite any yearnings for love or physical contact we might have.

Whether one calls that morality or not,It's basically refusing to settle for less than true respect,committment and intimacy.

It's being unwilling to offer less to one's potential partners-as well as oneself.

Sometimes,our chastity comes from lack of opportunity more than lack of passion but while we may not have much control over our desires or chances to fulfill them,we can decide whether we want our dealings with other people to be caring and responsible or not.

There may be disputes about whether certain kinds of sexual expression can ever be free of selfishness but I think most of us can agree that any relationship that exploits,endangers or demeans is sinful and unhealthy.

Our sexuality (along with other aspects of our lives) has to be about believing in ourselves enough to hold out for the life-affirming and not compromising the standards God has set for us because they seem unrealistic or unattainable.

If our hearts and minds decide that God's will shall be the framework we build our lives around,we shouldn't have much worry about betrayal by our bodies.

jesuslovesevery1

This page could not hold the many sins I have. I hope that what I just said does not go in one ear and out the other as it has so many times before.

If you would slow down and listen you would not keep missing the point. I have never claimed to have less or smaller sins than any of this certain group that seems to be plagued with the denial virus.

I do not think stealing a million dollars is any more of a sin than stealing a penny. I do not think the sin of a homosexual act is any more of a sin than an adulterous affair with the opposite sex.

In reference to your comment:

"How can you agree that homosexuality could be genetic, yet you feel they don't have to act on their genetics? Oh I get it, try to resist your genetic makeup, that GOD installed in you???? Impossible." -- Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Sun, Apr 6, 2008, at 12:24 AM

Quite simple. It is not impossible. They DO NOT have to act on their genetics. The genetics that give them this desire does not take over their mind and body. It severly influences them but again, it DOES NOT take away their free will and choice.

Research has shown that common genes are found in different groups that are associated with certain behaviors.

The "gay gene" is not some special exception to the case. It has not been given such high ranking that it overtakes the possessor of the gene and controls him or her. This gene if present is not so dominant that it removes the ability to think and resist. It perhaps makes the choices tougher to make but it does not strip the person of their ability to "just say no".

If your line of thinking was allowed to be accepted we would just have to let the cocaine addict with his gene walk around with an 8 ball in a sandwich bag strapped to his head.

How about the child molestor? Now lets' be fair with him also and not step on "his rights". After all, he has one of them gene things too. You know he was just made that way and is attracted to the little ones. It is not his fault. He has no choice to make either since he was born that way.

There has been an abuse already of the "not guilty by reason of insanity" defence. I can not wait until the "not guilty by reason of genes" defence is worked through the system.

Maybe it will not take allowing someone to go free that has molested a child of one of you on the "not guilty by reason of genes" to make you recognize he had a choice to make just like we all do.

Evil Monkey

I have never thought that Michael is the only one that should be allowed to post his views. Instead I said he should have that same right if not more. Theoretically it is not his blog only but lets' see you choose the topic and put in on his blog. That is where I say it his blog. Only he can choose the topic of his blog.

You made the comment...."It surprises me how ignorant you are of the other people around you or on these blogs."

You do not suprise me. I have met them like you before.

jaxspike

Just so you know that I do not lump them together I will make known a huge difference between the two.

Most of the participants of bestiality I have known and/or heard about knew the difference between an entry and exit door. (exception being the guy with the tom turkey)

They were also more versed in manners and knew it to be proper to enter the front door when visiting their friends and guests home instead of the back door.

Evil Monkey

Where do you comprehend liar?

I missed it.

I still think he should post his views by starting a topic and you should post yours about the topic.

It is the personal remarks about him and his family that irritate me. It is not you or anyone posting their different views. You are entitled to your opinion and beliefs just as anyone. They may even be the correct view. I just said do not expect me to give much credit to a post of yours that references the Bible when you have made it known what you think of the Bible we have. You will always have a hard time getting anyone to take a comment of yours that references the Bible seriously if they know what you think of it.

Nothing wrong with you having an opinion. It is yours of which you will give account for.

I try not to continue in any sins i commit, but being the imperfect person I am I continually fail. I still believe when i repent it is forgiven. No matter how many times. I do not think someone who really has let god have control over their lives would willfully continue in the sin just because they can repent. But if someone does something you feel wrongs you , it is easy to come to anger. For me personally I find it hard to forgive someone who has wronged me or my kids. I pray daily and more to be able to do this. If God can forgive me for everything I do wrong, I should be able to forgive anyone who does something to me. No matter how anyone trys they can not reach a level of being perfect. It is an easy thing to try to rationalize when we do something wrong. Who wants to see the bad in themselves?

Evil Monkey

In reference to your comment:

"You claim the Bible is accurate, I claim it is not, when all the books are include THEN it is accurate."Posted by Evil Monkey on Sun, Apr 6, 2008, at 2:36 PM

There again, you are most entitled to your opinion. What is wrong with that.

I just said do not expect me to give much thought to a comment of yours that references the Bible that is viewed as incomplete among other things by you.

I actually respect your opinion that even Stargate is more believable than the Bible. It is your opinion to have as is. I have a different one that is mine to have. I could actually respect your opinion more if you would tell us what you perceive to be the proper canon that is different from what earlier scholars have determined.

I think if you would look at it with an open mind you would see that I respect your opinion more than you do. You have not found the courage yet to lay claim to your complete Bible with the add-ons and subtractions you mention all the time.

How about a simple index?

I value your opinion enough to look at it. Why not add value to your claim and present it?

I do not think there is a yes or no answer to every sin. but that is me. Since I seem ignorant maybe you could enlighten me. If we could stop ourselves from doing things wrong, Christ would not have had to die for us. Fortunately for us, there is a way to recieve forgivness for our sins.

micheal keep doing what you are doing,stand tall in your faith for the lord is your rock. I agree with you conviction has been taken out of a lot of churches it has become what would you like to hear today sermons. the topics you and opinions you share with everyone are not dogging the person out ,if we take away the conviction everyone would have a wall around their heart causing their hearts to harden and without conviction in your life it would stay hardened causing you to fall further and further away from god. Your blogs show conviction, no we are not perfect, and we will sin until we die, but if you ask for forgiveness and five minutes later do it again and again and do not turn away from it how do you expect to receive the blessings that god has for you in your life. I believe even god has his limits when we choose to keep certain sins in our life and you do not turn away from the sin that seems to be holding you back from the blessings of god,so if you dont have conviction in your life we might as well be labeled as hypocrites(actors)so you can choose to keep sin in your life and fall farther and farther away from god or turn away from sin in your life and enjoy the abundance of blessings that god has instore for you, but that is a chose that we all have to make, because each of us is responsible for our own salvation and showing others and letting them see the light the lord has placed in each and everyone of us who believe, by the way we live our lifes but again that is a chose that we have to make no one can make it for you, only you.

Parkerbrothers,

I look forward to being enlightened, but will have to check back later.

jesuslovesevery1

It does not take a lot to know enough these days with information at the tip of ours fingers. Google has brought it home.

As I have said numerous times I diffinitely think some people are prone to have a different desires and behaviors that are influenced by the genitic composition of their DNA. I strongly believe the location of the 10q22 and the 22q12 chromosome is what creates a desire to smoke in smokers. I am quite confident that the TAS2R16 gene on chromosome 7q31 and the DRD2 gene on chromosome 11q23 compel a drinker to have another one. And yes, the Xq28 chromosome quite probably makes Jack want to mount Mack.

But no matter what the genetic deficiency it is not a mind and body controlling mutation. We all have our DNA composition that causes one of us to favor this and another to favor that more than others.

Just as the drinker with 7q31 and/or 11q23 would prefer a drink over food so might the male homosexual with Xq28 prefer a man over a woman.

No matter what our DNA composition is we will all have things we must make tough choices on. All of our tough choices will vary from one person to the next. The male drinker might love his women while the male homosexual may not even drink. Both have vices that can be controlled with a choice that is not selfish.

To deny you have a choice is to deny you have a mind.

To deny you have a choice is to deny you have a mind.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Sun, Apr 6, 2008, at 5:18 PM

Umm, that has nothing to do with it. You have yet to tell me when you "decided"... That's right, you didn't. Everyone "decides" to have consentual sex, everyone "decides" to get married or not, but you do NOT "decide" what your DNA composes... As far as google goes, using that to think you are proving a point, shows your inability to use YOUR OWN BRAIN.

jesuslovesevery1

For some reason the truth of what I say is being hidden from you.

I have on numerous accounts tried to convince you that I acknowledge that your DNA composition is not a choice any of us can make. It seems to go in one ear and out the other with you though.

Although the DNA composition is not a choice the activities that are desired because of your DNA structure do all come with choices. The smoker with the 10q22 or 22q12 chromosome has a choice to make everytime he picks one up. It is his choice and his only. To use the chromosome as an excuse is nothing more than what it is. An excuse.

I hope the light comes to you that I know the DNA composition we all possess comes with no choices that I know of. Would it help if I went back and collected all the times I have asserted what the choice is about and post them for you?

Does anyone have a better way to explain what I have attemped to?

If so please have at it so I will not have to repost all these accounts about choices.

jesuslives

Yes = Enlightenment

Yes, there is a choice.

Even Eve had one.

Do not be deceived.

Parkerbrothers . . . if that was your pathetic attempt at a joke earlier then you miserable failed just like you have miserably shown the ability to show that you are not a sorry excuse of a human being.

If you disagree with something that is fine and you are entitled to that just as I am but for you and Michael to come on here and spread the kind of hate and trash that you guys do is just pathetic and sad and makes me sad that people like you exist in the world.

Maybe one day God will open your eyes and show you the error in your judgment and that only he has the right to judge people. I hope most of all though that he shows you to not harshly ridicule groups of people you don't even know. I have know more gay people who are better Christians than what I am seeing coming from you and Michael. I am not attacking your faith . . . I am attacking the sad and pathetic way you use religion to exhibit your hate and bigotry. God despises blasphemers most of all.

Did I not say we should not try turn away from our sins? I may have not used the same wording but the point is still the same. And I do not think our sins are covered but washed away by God's loving grace when he let his son be crucified to do so.

jesuslives

Looks like we were saying the same thing.

I believe your comment "Did I not say we should not try turn away from our sins?" was meant to be "Did I not say that we should try and turn from our sins". Not making it a point to correct you but just trying to make sure I understood you correctly.

If I have understood you correctly then I think it is safe to say that we both feel that we should choose to turn from our sins. I think we agree that it is a choice we have to turn from our sins and try the best we can to rid ourselves of as many as we can? Hopefully each day we move forward knowing that we will never be perfect and without sin in this world.

jaxspike

Yes indeed, I agree with you. We are all sinners. I know I sin every day and probably will until the end. You are right when you say all Christians are sinners.

All Christians will however repent of their sins and turn from openly and willfully living in sin. They will denounce the same sins that their lord has and will denounce.

It will bother a Christian to know when he sins. He will recognize that what he has done is displeasing to his lord and will desire to never commit that sin again.

A Christian will not continue in willful sin. Do not allow yourself to be deceived into thinking they will or can.

I remind you of what our Bible says.... "Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame"........"Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid"........"But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."......."Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

I am not attacking anyone. I am simply stating the facts from a Christians' Bible. We should not be having these disagreements if we are both Christians using the Bible as our source.

You never did tell me what your source is?

BTW..There could be 37 gay churches in Nashville and possibly never a Christian to be found in a one of them. Organizing into a group and coming together at a building called a church does not make someone a Christian.

What if a group of child molestors rented a building that was labeled a church and met at the same given approximate times as all other churches and they all left the building and continued weekly fulfilling their sexual desires as openly and willingly as ever as though nothing was wrong with their vice. Would you view that as Christian?

What if a group of known thieves rented a building that was labeled a church and met at the same given approximate times as all other churches and they all left the building and continued weekly fulfilling their desires to steal as openly and willingly as ever as though nothing was wrong with their vice. Would you view that as Christian?

I keep being reminded. What is your source?

jaxspike

Glad to see you recognize the Bible as a good source. As I told you earlier I could very well be wrong. We never get too old to learn something new everyday and I am willing to be taught.

Please show me where you found support for the allowance of ongoing willful and open sins being acceptable and justified because of a church having members that are predominately engaged in the sin.

In reference to your perceived singling out I urge you to consider who is actually doing the singling out. Out of all the open and willful sins that have been discussed on any of these blogs there is only one group that is singling THEMSELVES out by refusing to acknowledge their vice is indeed a sin. You do not see open and willful theives, liars, drunkards, etc., etc. making excuses for their vice when it is mentioned.

Only the homosexuals are singling themselves out by being being enflamed at the word of God touching their vice. It is their persistence in trying to get Christians to accept their vice that keeps giving the appearance of being singled out. Their conscience is telling them they are wrong and they become outraged when someone mentions their particular vice they are fond of.

You know, something just dawned on me. Maybe some of the ones that have been outraged are actually participants of this vice. That would explain a lot of things I have been wondering about.

Anyway, back to the point. Could you show me where any of these sins that have been discussed can openly and willfully be participated in by a Christian?

Also while you are at it please point me to the reference in the Bible that identifies what overweight is and where it tells about being any weight is a sin as I have failed to see it myself and would appreciate your guidance. I may be overweight myself and if so I desire to repent of it if I am immediately.

Overweight is covered among the seven deadly sins (slothfulness, gluttony, and greed) and Jesus said that we must treat our bodies as temples unto God.

Also, God hates sin. He does not hate people; therefore, if there is hate it is of the sin of homosexuality, not hate of the person. There is not one word in the Bible that tells us to reject sinners, regardless of their sin, from the Church or from the Christian community. The Church is to love and embrace all people regardless of the life they live. This does not mean that this person should hold a position of leadership within the Church, but they should not be shunned or rejected. They should be welcomed into the Church with open arms; however, they should not be in the position of Priest or Minister, if we are to believe in the teachings of the Bible.

It is amazing that the community will take an issue like homosexuality and begin a huge debate over it and not address other issues that are just as relevant to the Church. In order to put the issue into prospective, we must further investigate issues within the Church.

According to the Scriptures, there are many sins. The Bible does not mention only homosexuality as sin. The Bible also teaches that God sees sin; not big sins or little sins, just sin. If this is true then all sin is the same in God's eyes and no one sin is any smaller or worse than any other sin. If we are to follow the teachings of the Lord, then we would not want any person who openly practices a sin to be a church leader. Incidentally, church leaders include any one who holds a formal position such as the priest, minister, choir director, organist, Sunday school teacher, and the list goes on and on.

The Church likes to focus on the sin of homosexuality, but there are so many sins that should be addressed within the realms of Christianity. For example, how many priests or ministers are standing in the pulpit weighing in at 50 to 100 pounds over weight? The Bible preaches against gluttony. If a person does not eat to excess, then they are not going to be grossly overweight; therefore all of those overweight Men/Women of God are overt sinners. According to the Scriptures, they are sinners and thus should not be leaders in the church.

We'd have to go after the underweight,too.

How would we judge people who are "overweight" but have less than 15% body fat?

I suppose we'd have to judge by their health and general concern for other people.

Otherwise,we could have people eating enough food to feed a dozen families then throwing it up in trendy vomitariums.

Sometimes,I think that the next big entrepeneur is going to be the guy who markets SECOND STONES (tm ).

These would be the rocks one hurls at one's family and neighbors when one isn't without sin but is of a higher moral calibre than the person getting pummeled.

Such projectiles would likely be in higher demand than pet rocks ever were.

Does God want us to be bolder believers-or boulder believers?

Inquiring minds want to know.

jaxspike

I still think one of us is reading from a different Bible. Nowhere have I read we are to embrace any open and willfully sinning Christian with open arms.

I have no problem embracing a simple sinner but I am told not to keep company with a Christian who willfully sins. I am actually told not to even eat with a openly sinning Christian.

I base this on..... "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat."

and also.... "But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed."

and also... "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of"

Your reference to church leaders being a choir director, organist, or Sunday school teacher has not been found by me in my study of the Bible. Perhaps you have found something I have missed. Or perhaps you have stumbled onto traditions of men.

I leave you with this to know...."This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

and also....."For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

If you have a pastor who is teaching you some of your beliefs I urge you question his doctrine against the Bible.

I firmly believe in these last days that many people have been deceived into the "pretty building syndrome" and have financed their church buildings into a situation where the ears must be tickled to fill the plate. That is not always the case but you should discern what you are being taught carefully. The Holy Spirit will teach you all things.

By the way, I love how off handedly you insinuate that I might be gay.

If that is the worse that I am called in life then I will consider myself very lucky.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 12:05 PM

jaxspike

No insinuation meant. I only had a thought come to me as why so many are inflamed by the mention of homosexuality being a sin. It made things make more sense if they were actually participants of the vice.

Whether you are gay or not is none other than your choice. It makes no difference to me other than I am instucted by my Bible to not keep company with you if you are a homosexual and claim to be a Christian.

Why do you keep coming back then?

-- Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 6:22 PM

jesuslovesevery1

Because.... "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine."

jaxspike

There is a difference between a sinner and a Christian who lives in open and willful sin. That is the folly that is deceiving you. The Bible tells us exactly what I told you.

The scriptures were provided to you but you still remain in the dark.

"According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; unto this day."

"We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood."

I am not better than Jesus. I just follow his word and instructions as they were given as best I can and get up the next day and start again.

"There is a difference between a sinner and a Christian who lives in open and willful sin."

Did you notice how much of an oxymoron that statement was. A Christian who lives in open and willfull sin is still a sinner. What is the difference? They all need saving.

Sorry guy, you are in the dark and embracing it with all your might.

jesuslovesevery1

Because.... "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine."

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Mon, Apr 7, 2008, at 6:28 PM

Now, contradict that with a verse of love? Or is to too easy to type in "scriptures containing God's wrath"?

jesuslovesevery1

That is actually a verse telling of love. Sorry you can not see it. The light is there.

jesuslovesevery1

There is no dirty work in what I do.

I see Michael defending and wanting to preserve the Gospel as pure and intact. Love is not always speaking on what everyone wants to hear. Actually love is usually required to say things that are truthful and noone wants to hear. If you love someone you will warn them of the bad things they may be exposed to. The devil is the only painter I know that will paint you a picture of what you want to see instead of what you should see.

I have yet painted a picture you want to see. I have only painted what you need to see. That is why you want my painting to stop. Your comment makes perfect sense.

I am off to bed. The flashlight gets a little heavy after a long day.

"He that putteth his trust in the Lord shall be made fat."

(Proverbs 28:25)

I like this as a cause for plumpness a lot better than E M's scenario.

If trust in the Lord causes cellulite,one look at most of us would reveal that America is in for one dilly of a revival.

:)

Just in case I'm indulging in wishful thinking,maybe we could try the self-control bit.

One needn't start by bringing a knife to the throat-just cut back on bringing the fork and spoon to the lips.

Parkerbrothers . . . I applaud the fact that you hold firmly to your beliefs and that you actually believe in something and everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.

What I have a problem with is when people are given a forum on a site like this to express their views that portrays people in a negative way based solely on one's beliefs. I have heard these same arguments made to enslave black people and treat them as second class citizens and they too pulled scriptures from the bible to promote their negative views.

It's people like you that cause other individuals to do harm to others because you promote the idea that certain people you disagree with are not worthy of God's love and are outcasts and should be treated as such so incidents like what happened with Matthew Shepherd occur. If you are comfortable with the blood of such victims on your hands then feel free to continue to spread your hate and bigotry as much as you want. People like you do not promote true Christianity . . . instead of trying to understand the problem and find a solution to fix it; you take a sledge hammer and destroy it so you don't have to deal with it because your "Christian hands" are too pure to touch such issues. Have you ever talk to a gay person and truly try to understand their situation and sit down and explain your beliefs and have true open dialogue or do you just prefer to run around and kick dust in their faces and say they are going to hell without ever making an attempt to get to know the person and work from there?

I am sorry, but it seems your religion is based on beliefs of convenience so you can dispel anything you don't understand and throw it to the side without trying to do something about the problem. Just running around telling gay people they are sinners and going to hell is not a proper solution nor is its God's way. That is fact!

Evil Monkey

Your name is not that influential yet.

Actually glad to see you using the Bible as your source. You are pointed in the right direction with it.

The only thing that would make me any happier is to know you view it as more credible than Stargate. If your intentions are to make me very happy let me know that you believe the Bible is the inspired, guided and protected word of God.

Back to the topic. You made the comment..." And as you can see, it shows where being fat leads to more insidious things."

Your comment leaves one having to consider what you view as fat. Also the Bible is talking about gluttony instead of fat. I think you can be a glutton and appear in the flesh as thin. Gluttony resides in the heart. However, in your worldly opinion at what point does a person reach the level he is considered gluttinous? Are you tying gluttony to a level that is reached when the weight versus height index is exceeded? Is there any consideration given to the bone mass that underlies this fat you talk about?

What are you basing your claim to fat on? It would be better explained to a Christian by referencing the Bible.

The world itself may understand you better if you use references that are tied to the latest fashion magazines that glamorize humans that most Christians would view as malnourished.

Perhaps since we seem to have a little of both on here (Christians and World) you might seek to clarify your forthcoming thought by seperating the two and use the appropriate source for each.

Again I say that I am glad to see your use of the Bible. It will be interesting to see if you use it instead of Cosmopolitan as your source of explanation of "fat".

And last of all keep in mind that the "world" viewed and accussed Jesus of being both a glutton and winebibber?

19The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

parkerbrothers,

Not one single thing you said made any point at all. Gluttony IS a SIN, period. Whether it be drink, sex, or food, it is a sin. So if you overeat and get fat, you are a glutton. PERIOD.

Can you undereat and get fat? No. Why are you overweight? You have a choice NOT to be overweight.

(Please everyone who reads this and is getting offended, it isn't meant to offend. I apologize if anyone feels I am singling out overweight people, but please understand this, There is a reason so please bear with me)

The only thing I regret is this conversation. What does my conscience have to do with anything? I am content with my views on this subject matter or I wouldn't waste my time arguing the point.

I am done though . . . a conversation with you is like a dog that chases its tail; there is no point to it. I wish I had the patience to deal with someone like you but I can only say so much before realizing sometimes it is a lost cause.

That was exactly my thought also Evil Monkey . . .

jaxspike

Sorry you regret the conversation.

You are indeed wasting your time is your effort is to change my mind and get me to accept anything other than what the Bible says. I hope that is one tale I always am chasing.

I hope one day it will be the only tale you are chasing.

Evil Monkey

I still wait for further discussion on gluttony, overweight and fat you are desirious of discussing.

I left the ball with you.

Evil Monkey

I am not worried about a sin in the eyes of Google.

The more specific thing I asked you about was at what point does someone become overweight since you have associated being overweight with gluttony and worried you may be offending someone.

Since being a glutton is referenced by you as a sin I think you should explain when you think a person has reached that weight or body fat content since all your references link the three to some unknown degree.

I am curious as to whether I am a glutton. If you can convince me I am by using the Bible as your source I will repent and turn from that sin immediately. I would not want to live in it any longer.

I am a little confused on your statement...."Being a Glutton is the same sin as being Homosexual. SAME EXACT THING."

If it is the "EXACT SAME THING", then Jesus was accussed of being a homosexual?

Do you want to clarify that a little?

jaxspike

That is correct. There has been comments made by you and others that you believe there are ones guilty of this. How did you determine they were a glutton. What was the criteria of determining factors you used to reach that decision?

Evil Monkey

Sorry, I did miss it.

What has you so excited today?

Is anybody else disturbed that the t-g staff decided to remove the blog about the word "sucks" on the cover of the paper this Sunday. I guess we can blast teachers and school board members and anyone else about anything else but let's not criticize the paper. Lack of integrity? You may not see this post if the thought-police arrive in time. This like the church that bought the ad must suck. Your word not mine.

I rarely ever read this blog, but I notice it ALWAYS has more comments than any other. I think that fuels the fire. If so many people don't agree with Michael's views, simply ignore them.

I take it you are using the Aryan Dictionary? Because I don't see that in my dictionary.

How does the complete and superior dictionary define agape?

jesse, you were the one that started the queer agenda crap, NOT us. No idea why you even posted it if you cannot answer the question in a clear concise manner, I guess it is easier to run away.

quantumcat

Everything you said is exactly true but you sometimes have to finish it completely so you leave no misunderstanding or let it in essense remain a half truth.

When you make the comment....."All He asks is that we turn toward Him and give Him control of our lives so we might be able to live according to His will for us".......you forget to tell them that he knows when you turn and give him control and once he has control he will not partake in any of the lust that have been discussed on here in detail. You leave a lot of room for deception to breed when you present half of a truth.

quantumcat

Now that was one of the best post I have seen so far.

It is about love.

A love that is shown differently by different people at different times. It is always love if their is genuine concern for the other persons' well being as you diffinitely seem to have for others.

Thanks.

I think you have to let the Holy Spirit do the talking.

We can't always know where a person's coming from but God is like the wise member of the family who knows when the individual acting out needs a hug,a trip to the doctor or the kind of talking to that peels the wallpaper off the walls.

He may not let us have everything we want but He won't stint on giving us what we need.

We come a lot slower when we know we need punishment than when we just want to get reconciled with Him as soon as possible.

AFTER the lecture,it may be o.k. to hide under the bed but sometimes (after the yelling is over and things are made right),we get to sit on the porch and have ice cream.

Adam and Eve would have had a better time if they felt they could run TO their Father when things went wrong instead of letting the negative put a barrier between them.

Debtors tend to avoid talking to people they owe.

The more they owe and the less likely it is that they can pay it all back,the less they want to talk to those they owe.

Now,if someone calls and says: "I've just acquired your debt and I want to discuss with you how it can be marked 'paid-in-full' this very minute.",they might be a little more ready to listen than if they know they'll hear about court and confiscation.

Fire-and-brimstone make us aware of our needs but a Prince of Peace and a Day of Jubilee attract whether we know how far we've strayed or not.

I've been away from the computer for a few days and I stand amazed at this exchange between quantumcat and parkerbrothers. Its great that we can have principled discussions about varying viewpoints without a devolution into name calling and character assassination.

Whether we start with Jonathan Edwards sermon on "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" or with the thirteenth chapter of Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, the important thing is getting to the center of God's redemptive grace. My experience is that some people's button is pushed by one and some by the other but eventually those who respond to the good news through either message will understand both. I guess the trick is to find that point where the porridge is neither too hot nor too cold - where it neither hurts going down nor causes it to be spit out.

I couldn't agree more parkerbrothers. I was thinking as I wrote about that same admonition. Going back to the analogy I would think very few if any like their porridge cold or even cool and most like it somewhat hot. The chef gets to decide how hot we need it. Whether it be the warmth of his love or the heat of his discipline, he knows what we need.

I've always puzzled over why God wouldn't spue out the cold one too. I guess at least he though he could show them the error of their ways, but the lukewarm are in such a comfort zone they might be impossible to move one way or the other.

I agree.

My point was to give people hope enough that they'll get right-and,maybe,shift the focus from God as judge,jury and executioner to God as parent,healer and advocate.

To use the debt analogy again,why would a debtor bother to budget and save if he could work 24/7,put every dime toward the debt and never get out from under?

In this sense,we are all "morally bankrupt".

But,this does not give us license to get in the hole again.

It's meant to remove enough pressure that we can have a new beginning using good stewardship.

To use a school themed analogy,if it's all pass/fail,then a poor student has little incentive to stay in school or conduct himself properly while there.

In my day,we had few paddlings at home or school.

Spankings were for the lucky ones.

(You took your licks and it was all over.)

The rest of us learned that self-discipline did not refer to applying the switch to ourselves as if we were an order of flagellants.

If we struggled with a subject,we were tutored.

If we damaged something,we were responsible for its restoration-not the school budget and not our parents.

Waving money or getting a vacation (a.k.a. suspension or expulsion) didn't cut it.

We,too,learned the old gunfighter's rule: You can only win by force until the second someone comes along who's even stronger-and there's ALWAYS someone stronger.

Our teachers used physical strength and authority over us but their main advantage was being smarter and having an inner power that came from their character-not the "board of education."

They had something that we knew extended beyond the classroom walls and they made us want it for ourselves.

It wasn't that they had "zero tolerance" for misbehavior.

It-would-not-happen-PERIOD.

We could have guns and knives in our desk because we dare not *think* of getting pencil shavings on the floor-much less pieces of our fellow students.

We were like baby elephants that start being held by a log chain and,by adulthood,can be restrained by a broken thread.

Harsh punishment (on the rare occasion it did occur) was swift,completely understood and fair.

The rest was about getting us so steeped in the positives (being brave,kind,honest,clean,orderly,thrifty,punctual,etc.) that we had little time or energy to be anything else.

Honor didn't refer to a class ranking.

It didn't have much to do with copying off another's paper except for this reminder:

"Today,you must pass one of two tests.

One is about the material we've studied in class.

The other is about your character.

If you can only pass one,fail the one on this subject matter.

You'll need your honor more in life than you will this information."

Neither a lax approach nor an adversarial one encourage mutual respect or show any expectation that a person can be cultivated and refined into something good.

Both imply that being satisfactory would mean eradicating reality instead of affirming it and removing whatever's getting in its way.

The old-timey way worked because it assumed people could learn,could control themselves,could act responsibly and could get the help they needed when they needed it.

Spiritually and academically,it's easier to lower standards so everybody gets an 'A' or let the worst students drop out.

It's much harder to decide that EVERYone will get what they need (whether that's special education,a doctorate or a journeyman's license) before they get turned loose.

God,like the country school marm,will not let us go into the world unprepared if He has any say about it.

It's easier to believe it's worth pursuing a difficult goal if you have the assurance that the ones in charge aren't waiting to label you a loser but are on your team and aiding you in your victory.

Sorry Cat, and Monkey that you thought I ran away. A mean little wife made me go to work instead of playing with the E-Machine. Please answer this. What was the lifestyle God came down on when he destroyed Sodomand & Gomorrah was it red necks,blue collars,field hand ,or homosexuals and what kind of sin was it called?

You speak of (Love) you don't love someone, if you see them headed into destruction and don't try to stop them. You can sugar coat any thing. That why their leaders chose the word gay. It was considered a non-controversial word. Now you have been told what the under laying statement means. Remember facts change truth will stay the same.

I still think of gay by the original definition.

G (OD) A (ND) Y (OU) = HAPPINESS

Help people bond with the Lord and let Him take it from there.

Not every stance is made to support or rebel against God (not consciously anyway).

It might surprise us to know what lifestyles and organizations have people promoting His agenda and which contain more of the enemy.

We don't need to be debating whether the birch plank in our neighbor's eye is more harmful to his vision than the hunk of oak,cherry,teak or mahagony we have in our own.

The Carpenter would tell us that they all can cause a heap of grief.

He'd say that the point is to get to the Healer who can mend our injuries -whatever the source.

We aren't going to have much luck getting people to follow our advice when we lambast them for swallowing a gnat while we so many of us go on an all camel diet and ask one another "Do you want one hump or two?"

Some people would never visit a doctor if all they heard was tirades about how they would die if they didn't give up their favorite foods,habits and passtimes.

Let them develop a rapport with the doctor during wellness visits and they could get to trusting the physician enough to make those lifestyle changes or even undergo frightening procedures.

People with chest pains don't need bombarding with endless arguments over eggs,coffee,alcohol,or carbohydrates.

They need to see an expert who can decide if they need to talk bed rest,transplants,blood pressure pills,water aerobics,eating more fresh fruits and vegetables or taking an aspirin a day.

They'll toss the salt shaker and the cigarettes a lot faster if the doctor has begun making them more well even before they let him make them less sick.

I can't dispute that.

I'm just saying that SOMETIMES people need to be fortified before you confront them with the big stuff.

The more wounded they are,the more skittish they'll be about having their flesh OR spirit treated.

A child with a skinned knee wants to see warm water before he sees merthiolate.

The nice single person wants to chat with the person you think is perfect for them before you pick out their flowers and china patterns.

Do we want to run them off by pressuring them before they're ready or do we lead them to God and let His Grace convince them to make the right choice of their own free will?

Esther didn't rush in asking for deliverance for her people.

She began by building a relationship with her spouse.

Moses,on the other hand,barged in on Pharoah and let him know he was there to

fight for his people's freedom or eat matzoh-and he was fresh out of matzoh.

Two approaches to similar situations yet both were effective and both led to their users becoming legendary heroes.

In each case,they let God determine the strategy instead of applying their own ideas and,in each case,the other party had a free choice about his response.

It wasn't imposed on him so he was forced to submit to God's will.

We need to stress getting people to see God just as we'd coax them to see a doctor,lawyer,realtor or whoever they needed.

"Go see the doctor to optimize your health" versus "Go see the doctor so he can remove a lung and kidney."

They might just need to discover what they stand to gain by following God's lead instead of only hearing shrill lectures about all they need to give up.

Thank you.

I hope I can write things others appreciate as much as I enjoy their contributions.

I don't just mean the wordy ones,either.

There's been more power than one might think in the responses of people who ask questions,call us on our mistakes and misdeeds and give us kudos when we get things right.

If I make good posts,it might be because of the challenge and encouragement to be had from a good audience that keeps us excited and keeps us honest.