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Shelbyville, Tennessee ~ Thursday, May 15, 2008
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Remember Nero!
Posted Monday, May 5, 2008, at 5:33 PM<< Previous | Read comments | Respond | Email link | Next >>
Of course nobody is still around that remembers Nero , except maybe my grandmother, just joking grandma.
All jokes aside,Nero ruled the Roman Empire from Ad 54 to Ad 68 and was the first emperor to persecute Christians.
He would feed them to the lions or wrap then in sheets and soak them in oil and set fire to them thank goodness the ACLU does not go that far , at least not yet.
He was thought to be the Antichrist of his time and for the people who believe the Bible's events have already happened he was and is thought to be the anti-Christ.
Then you had Napoleon the Hitler then aw heck I can't name all of them.
THE ANTI-CHRIST of Revelation has not come yet and he will put all the others to shame as far as torture and persecution goes.
People will die for the faith ,if they have the true faith.
Nero set fire to Rome and blamed the Christian's for it
Hitler blamed all the world's ills on Jews and persecuted them in the Holocaust.
Contrary to the Muslim's the Holocaust did happen!
It seems as people now are blaming some Christian's [like me] and others for causing problems such as spreading hate and other things to wards certain groups of people.
Christian's are fined for refusing service to homosexuals at their place of business.
Pastors are accused of spreading hate filled sermons,contrary to what most of you think Christian's rights are being denied in several instances.
Jesus is love and full of mercy and grace ,but God will do the judging and unless you have accepted his Son you will be tossed into the Lake of Fire right along side Hitler and Napoleon and Nero!
God always provides a way he did for Adam and Eve he did for Noah, Abraham and Moses it was God's way he said here is my offer take it and live. The same as Jesus we accept him and live forever in paradise you don't your in Hell, simple as that!
I will be doing a lengthy blog to celebrate the Birthday of Israel which will be on May 11, 60 years old.
For all of you that think that the church has replaced Israel as the "apple of God's eye" I think not!
Hope to hear from you . even you Grandma, I was only joking! Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
Hot topics OhThy Beloved Israel(25 ~ 2:57 AM, May 15)
Living In The Days of Elijah
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Remember Nero!
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This time the ACLU will be around to help defend those unduly persecuted-even those in sheets.
That's not to say the enemy won't have people doing his bidding.
He'll play puppetmaster to the powerful and the powerless.
But the atrocities won't be as much because of what the next Nero,William Henry Harrison,Idi Amin,Pol Pot,Saddam, Ceaucescu,Hitler, Stalin, and Mao do to "cleanse" their victims into oblivion as what a world full of "civilized" people lets occur.
If one is apt to take a fall anyway,one might as well perish taking down the tyrants instead of becoming the lackey they use as a meat shield when their defeat comes at last.
Michael,
I have to say I am not quite sure that Isreal could be the apple of anyone's eye. They are just as warlike as the other Middle Eastern nations and just as guilty of many crimes against civilians. The postwar displacement of many innocent Palestinians who had no role in the Jewish struggle is deplorable.
The funny thing is that since Isreal is not a particularly religious nation, any visions of God restoring some long past glory exist primarily in the minds of ultra-literalist Christians.
Michael,
You are always talking about going to Paradise forever.
Please show me where it says you will be going to Paradise and show me where Paradise is in the bible.
You also said you were going to be in the Rapture and reign with Christ for a thousand years. That is Not Paradise, nor is that what the bible says.
paradise is just what I call eternal life if you are not in hell then it is paradise.
The way I read it , those that go in the rapture will come back and take control and trign , you may see it otherwise.
But then again everbody does.
If you're with God,any place is a Paradise-even Hell or the customer service line at Wal-Mart right after Christmas.
Michael
According to our belief 1948 when Israel became a nation started the final count down.
Unique has a good question: where is paradise? The only directions I know are found in Luke 23:43 JESUS told the thief "today you will be with me in Paradise". Another scripture calls Abraham's bosom Paradise. My G.P.S. system can't find it, but if Jesus say's it's there,it's there.
jesse sellers,
I also had been taught that when Israel became a nation in 1948 it was that generation that should should see the second coming and a generation was considered 70 years.
However it was not until I read your comment that made me ask myself if that was a fact that I just accepted since I had been taught that or did my belief in that come from my actually study. I do remember reading the scriptures that addressed some of this as I believe but can not remember where I found all of it. Can you tell me where to find it at?
I guess no one remembers when I repeatedly asked what jesus said to the criminal on the Cross. I guess now people are finally going to talk about it?
And BTW Napoleon didn't persecute religions or races, he wants to conquer for land, just like the Jews did when heading to the Promise Land. The reason Pastors are being accused of spreading hate is because they are. Hence why you have been accused of such. Christian restuarant refuse to give food to people because of WHAT?! Um sorry that is very Christian like and they should be in jail for refusing to feed someone that is clearly paying for it.
So as you can see, when I mentioned that people believed in all those times that the end times were near, they keep believing that for the next 2000 years also. Remember they said the signs were all there then too.
If you're with God,any place is a Paradise-even Hell or the customer service line at Wal-Mart right after Christmas.
-- Posted by quantumcat on Tue, May 6, 2008, at 6:52 AM
quantumcat,
I think a lot like you do on Paradise. As I have said before I would rather be alone in a room with the spirit of God as I had in a banquet hall full of evil people. Paradise to me in my mind has always been anywhere God is.
But I also have to admit maybe I need to look further into the use of some words. I have always just generally simply drawn a line and put everything on one side or the other. Example: God, Jesus, Christ, Holy Spirit, Heaven, Paradise, 1000 year reign, etc., onto the good side. Satan, Devil, Lucifer, anti-christ, demons, Hell, Hades on the bad side.
It has been good to read the various comments on here. They have made me think more and grow. The one thing that I hope for is that we do not let words seperate us into divisions. It is wise for us to study words but foolish to let them divide. We may all have a different understanding on the words such as "Paradise" but it should not have such emphasis put on it that it lets us have our minds deluded from the cross and shed blood.
Parker good question.
I believe the concept is usually drawn from Matthew 24:23 but Matthew
24:1 to 24:22 tells what needs to occur proir to his arrival.
A good place to go is (Bible.com) for material to study from. That is off the top of my head, so I also will go back and study it again. If I'am wrong we both have some searching to do.
Parker
I was off a few verses.
Mathew 24:32-33-34
I have always been taught Isreal represent the fig tree and it started blooming again in 1948.
Israel is God's timepiece, I set my watch by it.
We are always just 7 years away [the peace accord within the bible East that is.]
But if you believe in God and his SON JESUS CHRIST then you become chosen as you are grafted into the natural olive tree which is Israel and we [the gentiles] are the wild olive tree.
Judaism does not need Christianity to explain its roots Christianity is nothing with Judaism.
HERE IS YOUR PARADISE!!
"Paradise" -> Luke 23:43
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in "paradise".
>> Jesus said you will be "IN" paradise, not you will "GO" to paradise.
"Paradise" -> 2 Corinthians 12:2-4
2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a one was caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I know such a man--whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows--
4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
>> Here Paul is caught up to the "third heaven", then he is caught up "into" paradise. Is this third heaven "paradise"? (this third heaven is referenced to Acts 22:17)
Acts 22:17
17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;
>> Paul was in a "TRANCE".
So now we see that this "third heaven" is "Paradise" and isn't a place, but a "Trance". This makes total sense because we have been told that when we die we "SLEEP". This "Sleep" would be a "Trance" that we are in until we are Resurrected.
As far as a "PLACE" called "Paradise" we read about it in Revelation.
"Paradise" -> Revelation 2:7
7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
>> The "Tree of Life" is in the "Paradise of God":
Revelation 22:1-2 (the New City of Jerusalem)
1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood "the tree of life", bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
>> So the "Paradise of God" is in the New Heaven or the (New City of Jerusalem).
TADA! So now you know "WHERE" Paradise IS! The only thing is... God hasn't created the New City of Jerusalem yet, so there is "NO Paradise" to go to right now.
And Now I have to go and answer to Evil Monkey. He has finally asked something I can not answer.
Unique-Lies,
I thought earlier you had said the dead know nothing and do nothing. In your post above you talk about the dead are sleeping which is a trance which is paradise which is the third heaven. I may be a little confused but it sure sounds like the dead were not guilty of knowing nothing or doing nothing while they were in this trance.
If this trance you mention is sleep which occurs at death was Paul dead while he was praying in the temple? If he was in this trance you call death and paradise he sure seemed to revive quickly when you read the rest of Acts 22.
There is confusion and I am wondering where the author is?
But God's Original and Only plan was to be in Paradise, which was the Garden of Eden. So are you saying that Adam and Eve were in a trance? If so, how were they persuaded to commit a sin while in a trance?
EM,
I am going to attempt to answer the question and do it without internet references. I know you have asked that before, and until know I have not felt free to respond to the discussions on here.
This first part is from Wycliffe bible dictionary. Paradise is defined as a place of happiness and bliss. It comes from an old persian word "pairidaeza" meaning a garden with a wall. The Hebrew word "pardes" is translated forest in Nehemiah 2:8 (which is a ref. to Asaph, keeper of the king's forrest) and orchard in Eccl. 2:5 (a ref. to gardens and parks) and Song of Songs/Solomon 4:13 (a ref. to the authors lovers gardens). It is not used in the old testament to refer to end times. Now to answer EM question. Jesus uses the term pardise only once. It is found in Luke 23:42-43 which states "Then he(the thief) said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."(NIV) The KJV, NIV, NASV, and NLT all use the word paradise. According to my Thompson Chain reference, the only other 2 references to paradise are 2 Corinthians 12:4 and Rev. 2:7. The Corinthians passage is personally a harder scripture to understand, but Paul talks about a vision a man had where he went to paradise. The Revelation passage is at the end of the section about the church of Ephesus in which Jesus says if the church in Ephesus listens he "will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God". The revelation passage is the closest one to relate to anything eschatological. I would have to say that after just a short research, the Bible does not correlate paradise to Heaven, but Heaven can be described as paradise, which will be a place of happiness or bliss. My interpretation of what Jesus said is that thief will be with him in a place of happiness and bliss, which most Christians consider heaven. My notes in my NIV study bible does say that it refers to the place of bliss between death and resurection.
Now to the other issue which got my curiosity up. This took place in New Mexico and was a Christian photographer who refused to take pictures at a same sex wedding. If I understand the situation, it was New Mexico's Human Rights Commission who fined the couple, under the states anti-discrimination laws. The fine is being appealed. If you google the subject their are a few other cases where people and/or churches were sued for not allowing opening pro-homosexual groups access, including a mega church in Texas. This is a subject that will not be solved on this blog or in any of our day to day discussions, since everyones opinion very so greatly. Now what do I think. Well... I think in our country a place of business should be freed from the government telling them who they could serve or not serve. A couple of examples: If I as a Christian had a Christian bookstore and a wiccan wanted me to sell that particular type of liturature, I should have the right to say no, on the other had if the wiccan had the bookstore and I wanted my christian type of books sold there, that person should have the right to say no. EM mentions food service. I guess that would be a gray area in a way because the food doesn't care who eats it. If I personally owned the eating establishment it would not matter to me as long as the bill was paid. I would not want my customers to be displaying to much PDA while dining no matter what "sexual orientation" they had.
I know this is kinda long, but it's my 2 cents worth.
Hey EM,
You posted while I was writing my answer. Interesting point you make. If we are on the same thought process, I don't think Adam and Eve were in a trance when they committed the first sin which got them kick out of paradise.
Sharon22,
Yeah I believe we are on the same page on this matter.
parkerbrothers
I can answer this but not sure if you will understand it because it is deep, very deep.
>> Here goes...
Let's talk about our body and our mind.
If we are present in the body (aware of our body desires) our mind isn't on the Lord. (we are DEAD to Christ)
2 Corinthians 5:6-7
6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord.
7 We live by faith, not by sight.
8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body (Dead or absent from the Body) and at home with the Lord. (Alive in Christ)
2 Corinthians 5:13
13 If we are out of our mind (not thinking of desires), it is for the sake of God; if we are in our right mind (desiring worldly things and desires), it is for you.
-> When Paul was praying, He was (DEAD or absent from his Body) and present with the Lord in his mind. His mind was dead to desires and worldly things or (in a Trance so to speak).
Haven't you ever gotten so wrapped up in something that you weren't aware of things going on around you? Maybe you didn't hear someone talking to you?
Paul was concentrating on God while he was praying that he was actually in a trance as he prayed.
Paul was dead in the body and present with the Lord. Paul didn't Die, his mind was only shut off from the world. When he stopped praying his thoughts returned to what he was doing before.
The trance that Paul was in was just a bible reference to let the readers know that it was talking about a trance, but it wasn't a "Deep Sleep Trance" like we go into when we die.
Sharon22
You are free to answer any blogs I write. You have the same answers on paradise as I have only you missed one thing. In rev 2:7 it says the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Where is the paradise of God? It is in the New City of Jerusalem or the New Heaven. Rev 22:2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river (stood the tree of life), bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
In the new heaven stood the (Tree of Life)! Rev 2:7 tells us that the tree of Life is in the "Paradise" of God.
So Paradise is in the new heaven...
As far as Homosexuals go the Bible forbids Christians from being Homosexual. It does say anything about two women sleep together, only men should not. Therefore any church should have the right to band homosexuals from their church. Other than that, they are free to do whatever, in my opion.
Evil Monkey
>>But God's Original and Only plan was to be in Paradise, which was the Garden of Eden. So are you saying that Adam and Eve were in a trance? If so, how were they persuaded to commit a sin while in a trance?
-- Posted by Evil Monkey
Where did you get this idea that God's original and Only Plan was to be in Paradise? God isn't that shallow. If that was His One and Only Plan, all He had to do was let them stay in the Garden of Eden.
God created the heavens and every thing on the earth. He created Adam and Eve and placed them in the Garden of Eden. This Garden of Eden was a Paradise and not a TRANCE.
The Garden of Eden wasn't around when Jesus told the guy on the cross he would be in paradise that same day. Jesus was referring to something else. What was He referring to? Paradise in heaven wasn't created yet so it can't be in heaven.
If it is a place of Happiness and Bliss, then there must be a place where it is located.
Hell and Hades are located in the heart of the earth.
Heaven where God is, is in the highest heaven.
The New Heaven will hover over the New Earth and is called the New City of Jerusalem.
Paradise is located in the New City of Jerusalem, which hasn't been created yet.
Adam and Eve went into a "Deep Sleep Trance" when they died, but not when they were created in the Garden of Eden.
Jesus who died for our sins, did not go into a deep Sleep Trance because He was resurrected and is alive today in heaven.
the same law applies to two females as it does males.
have you forgotten a believers main goal is to preach the gospel and win people to Christ to recieve salvation.
That is why I do the way I do because several people including some churches say that being gay is all right , well it isn't.
"That is why I do the way I do because several people including some churches say that being gay is all right , well it isn't."
Michael,
HAHA homophobe much? No idea why you even posted that but it has NOTHING to do with the current conversation, do you feel guilty about something that you felt the need to post that now?
Unique-Lies,
It says in Genesis that he made earth as a paradise, The Garden of Eden was a locale where it all started it didn't mean EVERYONE was going to live on that exact spot. It is funny how you take a literal stance on something in the Bible on something you don't believe, yet when you have a "point" to make you come up with these wild unrelated things to substantiate something you feel is right by making minute corelations. Please, no need to write out a few pages just to try to place some emphasis by trying to confuse the reader because most religions, pastors and wannabes are doing that now. We really don't need one more.
Jesse said?
According to my information and understanding I guess we disagree on several passages. But one thing about it .I have never told anyone I was one hundred percent right like some of you seem to think about yourselves.I only told the things I was taught and believe. If this offends you sorry, but I don't think it offends My God how about your's.
Now here is something else you may ponder on. If my belief is so wrong and is going to send me to hell. Could be I may meet some you there. Then we won't have to turn the other cheek. We can have fun tormenting each other while the ages roll on. Now if you need to call me my name is in the phone book unlike most of yours.
I hope you are not talking to me.
To Whom it May Concern:
I say this as one believer to another but people might get a more accurate picture of you if you showed as much joy and friendliness toward people as you seem to show anger,resentment,frustration,suspicion and the like.
If we could all demonstrate our being FOR God as fully as we show our being against Satan,then we would attract more wounded and hungry souls and be less subject to ridicule by the unenlightened.
The enemy likes nothing better than to see us sabotage and discredit ourselves.
That's exactly what we do when we insist on being snarky or talk about whomping one another.
(For some strange reason,people often conclude that the folks who use "Pow! Pow! Pow!" and "Nip it in the Bud!" as their response to everything are the same people who fumble for the one bullet in their pocket when their high noon finally arrives.)
A good shephard may need to yell or drive his flock at times but a great shephard knows that if those sheep are well-fed,sheltered and loved (and if one who was born a Lamb among them leads them) then they will follow him instead of responding to him by racing off in every direction but the one he needed them to take.
HE WHO HANGS BY TAIL
I don't think I pointed out anyone, but if you think the shoe fits then wear it.If not forget it I have.
I've said my piece on the matter now it's your time,any other conversation with me just call.
Galations 1:12
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Everything I say has been said before in God's word. I only bring to light what the churches don't tell you. If you don't believe me that is your right.
To all of you, Life after Death is living in a "Paradise" Fantasy land, yet no one can tell me where it is. Well, that is because it doesn't exist.
God has already given us a Paradise to live in. It is called the Kingdom of God and it is within you. Why do you require a Paradise to play in when you DIE? Do you really think God would put you in your very own Paradise in some Magical Universe while you are waiting to be resurrected, just so you can be tempted by satan again right here on earth?
Can't you see that God isn't through with you just because you die? God has other plans for you and includes you in the Resurrection and Life after the Resurrection. Life will continue on after we are resurrected for a short while. It isn't until after the second death that all the things you are talking about today, will happen.
All of you go on line to seach for answers and still can not put them all together to mean anything.
I am only confusing you because I am repeating what the Bible says.
If I am making any of this up, may God have mercy on my soul.
Like I have stated from the beginning, Paradise is what God intended from the beginning, why would he change his mind?
Jesse,
I tried to call but you were unable to answer the phone. BTW my phone number has been posted on here many times. If you haven't seen it before it is 536-1279
I think EM will agree with me on this, cause we don't usually agree, but I with EM on the idea that God created Eden as paradise. God could have very easily left Adam and Eve in the Garden, but they sinned and God's punishment for that was being evicted from the Garden (paradise) and from the close fellowship they had with their creator. The one thing we don't know is how things would have turned out if Adam and Eve had not originally sinned, we can make educated or uneducated guesses, but as of now we don't know. What we do know is that they did sin, causing mankind to fall from grace, God sent his son Jesus as a living sacrifice which brings us back under grace, and back into a relationship with a living God.
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree about the paradise topic. I try to keep my Biblical discussions in context of the scripture discussed and majorly disagree with your intepretation. This could easily get into a discussion on eschatology. The first revelation passage is within the letters to the seven churches, which discuss the problems those churches were having. This set of passages can be interpreted 3 ways. The first is a literal intpretation in which these letters are only to those churches. The 2nd is that the seven churches correlate the the church ages. The 3rd is that it can be interpreted both way. I tend to agree with the 3rd one. The second passage, Rev. 22:2, needs to be looked at in the context of Rev 4 - 22. John in chapter 4 states (in part) "a door standing open in heaven", and continues on through the end of Revelation on what he saw and heard on his visit to heaven.
This might muddle to discussion, but then again it's my 2 cents worth.
Sharon,
Yeah I think we are in agreement on this one.
Sharon22, Evil Monkey, and Michael Bell
Genesis 2:8
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
>>God planted a Garden in eden. It was called the "Garden of Eden", but no where is it ever called "Paradise". To us it would have looked like a Paradise because it wasn't polluted with man's trash. Everything was brand spanking New at that time so grass in a field would look like a paradise.
>>Please show me one scripture in the Christian bible that calls the "Garden of Eden" "Paradise". Paradise is what man has called the Garden of Eden without God's consent. That is why I don't base my knowledge on man's teachings.
Adam lived to be 930 years old. Before he had turned 130 years old he was banned from the garden of Eden. No one was allowed in the Garden again.
>Like I have stated from the beginning, Paradise is what God intended from the beginning, why would he change his mind?
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Wed, May 7, 2008, at 1:10 PM
Paradise was never mentioned in the beginning, so why do you insist that "paradise" was God's one and only plan? It was a garden and it was planted in a place called Eden.
In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. These two trees are what made the Garden of Eden Important. If they would have eaten from the Tree of Life, they would have never died, but Eve chose to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Eve then brought the fruit to Adam and convenced him to eat of it too. This is what changed everything from then on.
Revelation chapter 21 and chapter 22:1-6 describes the New Heaven that God is going to create for His righteous. Verse 2 in chapter 22 tells us that is where the Tree of Life is planted. It is planted in the new heaven.
This is to the church in Ephesus
Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
The angel tells John that the Tree of Life is in the "Paradise" of God. Or the new heaven which isn't created yet.
Unique-Lies,
Is this tree of life you mentioned above in Revelation from the same seed of the tree of life that is first referenced in Genesis?
Genesis 2:
8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 3:
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Could this seed have been revealed to the serpent in......
Genesis 3:
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
And promised to Abraham in........
Galatians 3:
16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
parkerbrothers
The LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; 9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree...
It doesn't say anything about God creating a seed to grow the trees. God Created the tree of Life and the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. My guess would be that these two trees would not produce seeds because they are unusual trees. God I am sure has destroyed both trees during the flood because He said He was going to destroy every living thing except for Noah and his family and the animals named.
God will have no problem creating another Tree of Life in the new heaven when He creates the new City of Jerusalem.
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
God is admitting to us that this tree of knowledge did in fact make them instantly smart and know good from evil and if they eat of the tree of Life they would live forever.
Notice in Revelation that God isn't putting the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil in Paradise in the new heaven, but only the Tree of Life.
Gen 3:15 is talking about putting hatred between the devil's seed (cain) and Eve's other children.
Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
This is saying that the promise to Abraham was only given to Abraham's seed (descendents) until Jesus came (from Abraham's seed) and took us out from under the law and placed everyone (including the gentiles) under His grace.
Galatians 3:22-29
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
The Jews were under the Law until Christ came. When everone have been baptized into Christ - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus -
>> And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. So everyone is Abraham's seed if they accept Christ.
THIS SEED HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TREE OF LIFE!
Just checking your cap lock button out.
Yes , I know, just wanted to make sure you knew this seed wasn't the tree of life seed, lol
Uniquelies,
But it does say the trees yield fruit with seeds. I guess it could be asked which came first the seed or the tree. When I read the verse below and see God said "Let the earth bring forth grass" I am going to assume the seed was there.
Genesis 1 :
11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
-----------------------
I noticed something tonight that I had not thought of before when reading Genesis 2. God commanded man to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil before he ever created woman and it appears he never warned the woman specifically about the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:
9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the "tree of life" also in the "midst of the garden", and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
--------------------------
Now in Genesis 3 below the woman does acknowledge she has been told by someone that God has said not to eat or touch the fruit of the tree which is in the "midst of the garden" but she does not acknowledge the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Earlier in Genesis 2:9 above it says the "tree of life" is in the "midst of the garden". Later in Genesis 3:22 below God tells of the need now for them to take and eat of the "tree of life" and live forever.
Genesis 3
2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the "midst of the garden", God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Why would God have commanded him "not" to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil instead of simply telling him to "do" eat of the tree of life and live forever since he had both to be partaken of? Eve seems to think she was not suppossed to eat or touch the fruit of the tree in the "midst of the garden". Did she think she could not eat of the tree of life and live forever? Was she never told of the best fruit to eat? It seems she was only warned by someone that she was forbidden to eat the fruit of the tree in the "midst of the garden" of which lie the tree of life. It also seems once they had eaten of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and became as God and knew good and evil they would have then eaten the fruit from the tree of life and lived forever.
I may be wrong but it looks like us men may owe all the women of the world an apology. All these years we have blamed them for all this mess we are in for eating that apple when it now appears to me the man did not give good instructions to the woman that there was more than an apple to eat in the "midst of the garden". If man would have given her better instructions she may have eaten of the tree of life instead and all these "paradise" discussions would have been as meaningless then as they are tommorrow.
Also in your previous post you said - "God I am sure has destroyed both trees during the flood because He said He was going to destroy every living thing except for Noah and his family and the animals named."
Since Noah did not take nursury stock with him on this voyage where did all the trees and plants come back from? Did God take a New Day and recreate these again?
In Adam's fall,we sinned all.
Eve may or may not have known about the tree and she didn't run things by God but Adam ate what he knew he shouldn't then tried to blame God and Eve instead of taking responsibility for his own actions.
(A real mench would have stood by his wife and asked God "How can we make things right with you?" instead of trying to cut himself off from them both.)
Thank God the second Adam respects the bride He was given enough to see the helpmeet that will share His glory and not just a "ball and chain" that causes His torment by her mistakes.
quantumcat,
You said.....
"(A real mench would have stood by his wife and asked God "How can we make things right with you?" instead of trying to cut himself off from them both.)"
I agree, that looks like what would have been done if they knew of the tree of life in the midst of the garden.
I am still puzzled why they were not told to "do" eat of this tree of life that was in the "midst of the garden". If God's intentions were for Adam and Eve and all of mankind to live in this beatiful garden forever why did he not recommend what to "do" eat instead of telling them what "not" to eat?
Even after they had ate what they were told "not" to eat why did they not eat of the tree of life as God said was needed then?
All I can say is God ran them out before they could partake of that fruit.
Another Question: Why did Satan approach Eve instead of Adam, and what
book or books beside Revelation 11:4 can I find refrence about the olive trees, and the end times.
parkerbrothers
All the trees yielded seed but I don't think those two trees would have. God placed an angel at the entrance to the gearden to prevent anyone from entering and eating of the tree of life or the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
->I noticed something tonight that I had not thought of before when reading Genesis 2. God commanded man to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil before he ever created woman and it appears he never warned the woman specifically about the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
->> You are right. Niether have I paid any attention to that before. That is what God meant about the people coming together to make up the body of Christ. When we come together we will learn much more and become stronger in our faith.
God did create Adam then later the two trees which God told Adam not to eat of.
It was later that God made Adams help mate, Eve. In the Bible, Christ is the head of man and Man is the head of woman. That is why women kept their heads covered. A man isn't suppose to keep his head covered but a woman was. The woman went to her husband with all her questions and didn't go over his head.
So... it would have been Adam's responsibility to the woman to tell her. Adam told her because in Genesis 3:2-3 Eve tells the serpent she is not to eat of the tree:
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
>> So here we see that Eve knew very well that she was Not to eat the fruit of (the tree) in the midst of the garden. Notice that the tree is not plural meaning there was only one tree in the midst of the garden that they couldn't eat from.
>>If God had commanded Adam to eat of tree of Life that would have been the end of the story and everyone would have lived happily ever after. God gave Adam a free will to choose what he wanted to. He didn't explain the trees to Adam only named them for Adam. Adam may have chosen the tree of life if Eve hadn't brought him the fruit of the wrong tree.
As it was... Satan was there to deceive Eve with a lie so she couldn't resist the temptation of tasting the the fruit. Once she ate the fruit she knew right from wrong and wsn't dieing so she took the fruit to Adam and convenced him to eat of it so he would be smart also. That had to be a great mental feeling after she ate the fruit so she would have told Adam about it.
>> Yes, parkerbrothers, we do owe the women an apology for one thing or the other, but not for Eve eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
->>Eve was deceived by satan making her the sinner, then she gave the fruit to Adam to eat also.
1 Timothy 2:11-15
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
15 But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
>>>so no one will think I have taken this out of context - this was Paul talking about women were forbidden to preach in churches. He uses the example of Eve becoming a sinner then leading Adam into sinning, so a woman should be silent in church.
-->> As for the flood killing all the Trees, I jump the gun. After I wrote it I realized I made a mistake but was too tired to correct it last night.
God wasn't angry with the plant life, only the Flesh He had created. So God decided to destroy all (Flesh) but not nessessarily the plant life.
Genesis 6:7
7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Genesis 6:12-13
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
> The plant life may have survived the flood or God recreated the plants while Noah was waiting for the water to dry up. Noah sent doves out before they came out of the Ark. When the dove brought back a live branch, Noah came out. SOme plant life survived the flood or God recreated them. That would not have been a problem for God.
The two trees in question may have been destroyed OR taken up into heaven? One preacher told me that the "Ark of the Covenent" was taken up into heaven. I really doubt that but my mind is open to a proven answer.
Noah may have taken some nursery stock aboard the ark or even had a little garden inside somewhere. It would have been dark in the ark so plantes would probably died inside the ark. Plant life in the ark probably consisted of straw for the livestock.
Now as for the why they didn't eat of the Tree of Life, they weren't tempted by satan to eat of it. When they ate the forbidden fruit they were too scared to eat anything after that. They knew they had eaten what they were told not to eat, they knew they were naked and they heard God coming so they did what we would have done. Hid themselves. They would have been shocked at the tremendous knowledge they instantly received by eating the fruit and their minds were not able to think straight. AN hour after we say or do something, we can think of a million things we COULD HAVE said or done that would have been better.
Oh yeah, unless there was a sign on the other tree saying Every Lasting Life, it wouldn't have meant anything to them because they were alive already and nothing was said about not eating from it nor the pear, orange, apple or plum tree or any other tree. Maybe they just hadn't gotten around to that tree yet.
Evil Monkey was right. I do write books.
Maybe I should publish them.
jesse sellers
Goto: http://www.mybibletools.com/
You will LOVE IT!
If you can paste their Toolbox on your homepage you can look up scriptures or words and this toolbox will take you there. I certainly Love using it. I have it as a pop up that stays open when I am answering Blogs to go immediately to the scriptures containing the info about the question or answer. Saves a lot of time!
You can type in a scripture or words like (olive trees). It will show you every where olive is and where trees is or you can make it only go to where olive trees is printed in the bible.
I also use Ask Jeeves to locate out of the bible information about something I can't find in the Bible. When I use Ask Jeeves I don't take it as Gospel truth.
jesse sellers,
If you ever find out who these two olive trees are please let us all know who they are. Michael Bell said it was Enoch and Elijah. A Gentile and a Jew. They are the two prophets in the end times who are killed and left in the street for the people to look at and spit on.
michaelbell
Now that I am caught up Please show me where the Bible says a women should not lay with another woman. The Bible says a woman shall not sleep with her son or step son. she shall not sleep with her father-in-law, brother, husbands brother nor any man out of wedlock, but nothing about laying with another woman. Please correct me if the is a scripture.
BTW, have you found a scripture yet, naming the Garden of Eden as "Paradise"?
The main goal of a believer is to worship God above all else. To keep your thoughts on God and not get involved with worldly things. To read His word and learn what God's Will is for all of us then live that way. Above all if you lead other to Christ, lead them to the truth which you will only know by reading His word and listening to God. And for God sake tell them to never willfully sin or their sins can no longer be forgiven.
Thanks Unique
I believe The Two Witness are represented by the Olive trees.
Candlesticks are (1)the old covenant church,and (2)new testament church.
At this time I still believe the fig tree represents Israel in Matthew.
If any one can clarify this please send me the info.
Unique-Lies,
I know your question was to Michael and I am not answering for him with this but instead I am asking a question to you if these verses by Paul were not referring to homosexuality among women and men alike?
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Above all if you lead other to Christ, lead them to the truth which you will only know by reading His word and listening to God. And for God sake tell them to never willfully sin or their sins can no longer be forgiven.
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, May 8, 2008, at 4:56 PM
Here again, I know you posted this to Michael but I have to say that he does harp quite well on what you said. If you have plenty of time yourself to expound on this willfull sinning just post something with your name on it condemning engaging in the willful sin of homosexuality and you will get enough responce to allow you to wear out several keyboards. They will come out of the woodwork like bees after you if you dare say they have a "choice" and a free will. Go ahead and do your research on the "gene" excuse because you will need it.
I suppose there will be no people in Heaven who owned slaves,ran sweatshops,horded rationed items,pirated goods off the internet or visited a speakeasy.
Most of us have indulged in sins that "didn't count".
Some we may have honestly thought were o.k.
Others may have given our conscience a twinge or even given us a little extra thrill at being "wicked".
Some may have been fine in the sight of God but we thought they were wrong and did them anyway.
(In such an instance,it is the willfulness that estranges us from God.)
If our salvation is so precarious that we can die from human frailty,then our Lord got cheated.
Unless there are many more,ultra-clear statements to that effect (and a lot more safeguards listed to prevent such a loss of salvation),then I'm going to assume it's as difficult to undo one's second birth as it is to cancel the first.
(We can make a disaster out of the life given but we can't change the fact that the gift was made.)
We have eternal life when we accept Christ.
We aren't told we might have it one day if we die or get Raptured before we sabotage ourselves.
We have it.
I find it ironic that some of the same people who celebrate the story of the Prodigal Son and assert that marriage is forever think that Jesus can void His relationships the minute the other parties get stupid.
If a person's pet strays off his property,it is running away from the food,shelter,protection and love its owner provides.
It might be that no one could look at that pet and see that it bears its masters' name.
But it would still belong to the owner.
It would still be his obligation to pay for any damage it caused.
It is likely that the master would still love it and want to bring it home safe and sound.
(It is also likely that the owner would have taken some pretty good precautions to see that the animal wouldn't get lost the minute he got it.)
If our finite relationships in our limited world can have permanent comittments,how hard could it be for heavenly bonds to go the distance?
Not only is it incredible that the enemy could snatch us from God's hands,it seems unbelievable that He could let our hard-won souls slip through His fingers just because we want to get loose and run straight into trouble.
Quantumcat
Well said!
Jesus is the last sacrifice made for our sins.Some may not like him for A sacrifice,because they think he requires too much from them.But there is no more sacrifices going to be made. Jesus is the last one.
Quantumcat,
That was great. I have been wanting to see that said for some time on here in those words. I hope it prompts a good rebuttal from uniquelies on willful sinning or perhaps you could expound further yourself on it. I have yet to see you really speak on willful sinning. I think I know your responce but would like to see you give it.
Quantumcat,
To further clarify what I said above I wanted to make sure you knew I agreed 100% with what you said. I believe and feel and know once you have been saved you will always be saved but have to admit some of the Hebrews warning scriptures still give me problems at times. That is why I ask you to explain your thoughts on these willful sins that remain no more forgiveness for.
Quantumcat,
I too agree with you 100% that we should have eternal life, but I can't over look the scriptures in Hebrews.
The scripture says (IF) you have received a gift from God or tasted the fruits of salvation, (then) he willfully sins.... well, sorry for you, because worst is his punishment than if he would have never know Salvation.
Wilfully sinning doesn't include sins that you did not know were sins at the time you committed them.
(If) you haven't received any special gifts from God, your sins can still be forgiven.
When we accept Christ, He comes in and washes away our sins. Our body and mind are clean or evil thoughts and ideas. Jesus has just cleansed our body (which is the Temple of God and now belongs to God) It is this body (temple) that the Holy Spirit comes into and lives with you. This is GOD. "He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world".
This Holy Spirit is preventing you from committing sin. You walk around with that special christian smile on your face and cry everytime you try to tell your story of salvation. We have all been there and know what I am talking about. That is the Holy Ghost inside of you keeping you straight.
But if you stray and we all do, we have to get back in line because we have been closing our mind to the Holy Spirit. We begin to feel ourselves haven't to question what we should do. We aren't listening to the Holy Spirit and taking control back from the Holy Spirit. This is the turning point. You better give that control back to the Holy Spirit before it is too late.
Once you wilfully sin it gets easier to sin because the Holy Spirit will leave you when you wilfully sin.
I too agree with you and think we should have eternal life, but until someone can provide me with some kind of Biblical proof???
->> It's like sand-flea said "Jesus is the last sacrifice made for our sins.Some may not like him for A sacrifice,because they think he requires too much from them.But there is no more sacrifices going to be made. Jesus is the last one".
Jesus died "once" for everyone!
Everyone who has read my blogs knows how I think. I like everyone else has wilfully sinned. That makes me an unforgivenable sinner in my eyes as I understand the scriptures. I know I will be sent straight to hell without passing Go and won't get to collect $200 when I die. But yet I still spread the word of God. Why? Am I from satan? No! Satan divided by himself can't stand. I feel that I must warn people of this scripture just incase it is true. What do I get out of it? I love talking about the word of God. I know His word so I have to speak it. That sounds like God is in control even thou I am a sinner. That gives me some hope that there has to be something in it for me in the end.
Moses didn't get to go into the Promise Land but he still lead God's people to the Promise Land. We do what God tells us to. Is it the Holy Spirit inside of me. I like to think it is. That being the case, then I am still in His Grace.
I can't tell you what to believe. I can only present the word to you as I know it.
Unique-Lies,
Thanks for responding but your faith has me concerned. You said...."I like everyone else has wilfully sinned. That makes me an unforgivenable sinner in my eyes as I understand the scriptures. I know I will be sent straight to hell without passing Go and won't get to collect $200 when I die.".... and it leads me to believe you think you are lost and going to hell?
You also puzzled me when you said...."I feel that I must warn people of this scripture just incase it is true.".... which makes it sound as if you do not believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God since you question whether something is true or could perhaps be false.
There can be no joy to be found if you do not have that assurrance of salvation. Only a constant horror of wonder if you have measured up which you can never know if you have not seen the scales that will do the weighing and picked up each sin and felt it your hands.
I finally accepted I would never measure up but the Sacrafice did as fully sufficient.
I do however admit that these Hebrew scriptures can work me over at times. I think I understand them but want to provoke some answers out of 3 or 4 minds. I want someone else to explain these Hebrew scriptures and show how you can still have that joy that comes from the assurrance of salvation and place these scriptures there to even further assure this.
I was taught that if you care about whether or not God has written you off then you haven't gone too far in the wrong direction.
(This is different from your wanting "pie in the sky when you die" or "fire insurance".
God's family would rather be with Him in eternal flame than in Heaven without Him.)
I,too,know I have willfully sinned and I know that God has never stopped getting on my case about it.
He coaches me,chastises me and gets plumb tickled when I get something right.
But,He's never given up on trying to bring us closer together and trying to help me see that I'll stumble less if I walk in His footsteps.
I don't think God would be going to that much trouble if I couldn't be saved.
Every act of patience and discipline and love He demonstrates shows me otherwise.
I don't have all the answers in Scriptures.
I can't say why I believe that faith is enough for salvation except I don't believe God would turn away a needy soul just because there wasn't a cleric around or enough water for immersion.
I figure God tries to keep things as simple and user-friendly as He can so even some of us not-so-bright people can get with the program.
God doesn't give up on me.
He doesn't even give up on people I can't stand.
As surprising as it was to me,not all annoying people are lost.
Some are part of the body of Christ.
(As a friend once said,"They may be proof the Lord had hemmorhoids but they're part of the body of Christ.")
Why won't He throw the deliberately disobedient away?
1. He's the very embodiment of Love.
2. He created us with a purpose and He'll do whatever He must to see it fulfilled.
I've asked myself what some of us flawed believers are good for.
I've concluded that if bright,strong and caring people function well,all folks will see is their virtues.
If decent behavior and wisdom come from the selfish and foolish among us,people will know that goodness had to come from God.
I have to borrow what courage,reason and love I have from God (or His people) every day.
When He cancels my access to Jesus' account of unlimited grace,THAT will be the time I should worry (but if He did,I'd be too hard-hearted to be concerned).
So far,the only times I've been spiritually impoverished was when I didn't have the sense to request what I needed.
I may lose sight of God at times but He's bigger than I am so He'll never lose sight of me.
quantumcat
Am I annoying to you with all the things I confess to be the truth even though it goes against everything everyone's been taught for years?
Does it burn you up when you have rocked along all these years thinking that you are going to Paradise somewhere in Heaven when you die, and that is what you have taught all your children, then have someone like me come up out of nowhere and tell everyone that they have been taught lies all their lives and show them where it is written in God's word?
I know myself that what I say is hurting someone who wants to come to Christ or someone wanting to lead someone to Christ, but they should accept Christ knowing the truth, not some made up lie to intise them to believe something that isn't true.
I have said many times that I do not know everything and would love to be proven wrong about a few things but no one has shown me any proof to the contrary.
If it weren't for Hebrews I'd be a devout believer like you. Don't lose your faith I may misunderstand something.
How can I answer all the questions thrown at me if the Holy Spirit wasn't inside of me?
A liar has to make up another lie to answer the first lie. God told one of the Apostles who was going to be taken to court and tried, not to worry about what to say because the Holy Spirit would answer for him.
I have read questions to me that I have sat here and thought my God how am I going to answer that question. I don't give it any thought. I just go to the scripture and it explains itself. I know Jesus and how He thinks so it comes natural to me to understand most of what Jesus says.
I stress to everyone to read the Bible for yourself. Don't believe what I say nor anyone. Read it for yourself. That is the only way you will get to know Christ on a personal level.
You quantumcat, may know Jesus better than me.
I like your blogs and know you think I am throwing roadblocks up on the pathway to Jesus, but I am only revealing the truth.
Unique
Thanks for the web site tip here is another if you want to do some cross checking(ask.com) but you probably already know that one.
About the two saints names I have no opinion for that question. (believe it or not)
Enoch and Elijah? (you tell me)
I was informed by Monkey that my phone number is not in the book. It is but AT&T decided to delete my name. (I have that happens a lot. Think it's a hint.) here it is - 684-5583
Willfully Sin
Is not to an occasional act of sin (which can be confessed and forgiven 1 john 1:8,9),but to a conscious rejection of God .The Old Testament speaks in Num 15:30,31 of commiting willful sin . A person who sinned presumptuously was to be cut off from the people. To sin delibertly after receiving the knowledge of the truth is apostasy. If a Christian rejects God's provision for his or her salvation,there is no other remedy for sins (see also Num 15:29-31),since forgiveness of sins can only be found in Christ's perfect sacrifice. This is from, Nelson study Bible
read the definition of presumptuously.
Remember he was talking to the jews,
who were trying to understand this new religion taught by Jesus.They were able to give a sacrifice every year for their sins.
Today we understand the Grace of Jesus.
We won,t be immeditaly snuffed out.We can ask for forgiveness and he is faithful to forgive us.
sand-flea,
Do you believe that once you are saved you can have that assurance that nothing can snatch you out of the hand of the God that saved you in the first place? I could not save myself and I therefore do not think I can loose myself. I do not think neither Satan or even an ignorant man as myself can undo what God has done for me. What do you think?
sand-flea,
You mentioned something earlier that I often ponder on and that is how the Jews must have felt about this Jesus making the claims he was and speaking with the authority he did. I am not taking their side but I can see how they could have been infuriated at his teaching after being brought up so in their Religion.
Although they knew it was time for the Messiah I do not think he hardly met their expectations of what they thought he should be.
I hope we all do not let the same thing happen at the second coming as did the first. I think the opposite may happen this time.
The first time I think they were looking for a World Ruler and did not think they saw him and this time everyone will think they see a World Ruler and think they have seen Him but instead be seeing the Anti-christ.
parkerbrothers
I think the only one that can take us away from God is us.By saying their is no God,and living that way.The Bible has stated that we are sealed until the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit.
If we can be lost because of sins we commit, after having the knowledge of God.Why did he die for us knowing that we could never be sin free.Because we will always have that sin nature. We don't always do the right thing and be totally sin free.Because we are continually working out our salvation.That's why Jesus came, because we couldn't cleanse our selves.The law could change our actions but it couldn't change our hearts.
Yes, I believe we can and do have that assurance.Other wise why did he die to start with(thinking maybe if i die for them i might get more power) NO!!! HE KNEW he was the last sacrifice for us,and that he alone could do what the law could't do "FORGIVE SIN" and be a mediator between us and GOD.Therefore we have grace,and long suffering,mercy.to give us time to see Jesus and repent of our sin, and not be annialated.
parkerbrothers
That's why it is so important to know our Bible.We know satan's ways.If you only open your Bible on Sunday you will be in trouble.We forget most of what we hear very quickly, usually before we get home.We also need the Holy Ghost he will teach us in the things of God.He is also the Spirit of truth, if we follow his leading we cannot be lost or decieved.It's when we grow cold and lackadaisical that we get into trouble.
The Spirit of God in us will confirm to us who is real and who is not.
All my faith is in Jesus.I have to have faith in him. Because i know what a mess i made of my life when i was making all the decisions.I should have been dead a long time ago,because of the stupid things i done.I'm sure some of you feel the same.Jesus had mercy on my stupid self!
parkerbrothers
Yes! I don't kid myself. I Wilfully sinned and therefore I am bound for hell. If I don't I will be thankful. Jesus did His part and I unknowly thought I could sin and ask for forgiveness anytime at least that is what I was taught in church. Boy was I wrong.
>>You also puzzled me when you said...."I feel that I must warn people of this scripture just incase it is true.".... which makes it sound as if you do not believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God since you question whether something is true or could perhaps be false.
-> A true Christian will question God's word. That is the best way to learn. Finding the answer is the problem. I believe God's word is the truth, but most people have been taught things that are not in the Bible. You don't believe what I read to you about willfully sinning. Yet when I say I hope it means something else and not how I interpret it, I have puzzled you.
As far as Hebrews goes...I am not sure about it because no one really knows who wrote the book of Hebrews. It is in the Bible, so I must assume it belongs there and is the truth.
jesse sellers
Ask.com used to be AskJeeves.com. Same website. Any search engine can work but I use Ask. for everything.
I would think the two Prophets would be Elijah and Moses or someone in the Levite bloodline who was a prophet from the past.
I won't recognize, them whoever they are, but I will know if they are prophecsying the truth or not. These prophets will be saying things like I do that will make the world very mad at them. Mad enough to kill them to shut them up.
Years ago AT&T and Bell South were a great team. I always stayed with them when everyone else called wanting me to switch and save money. I was on a 10cent a minute rate. One month they raised the rate without warning... they shouldn't have done that. I dropped then in a hert beat and have never gone back to them.
I hate the fact that Bell South is now AT&T. Have to use them for service but my long distance carrier is AireSpring. I get free 800 number and out of state long distance calling that only cost 3.9 cents a minute. I can talk for 60 minutes for only $2.35 plus tax.
Unique-Lies,
Perhaps you misunderstood me. I said what puzzled me was when you said...."just incase it is true." It made me think you were questioning whether it might be true.
Unique-Lies,
You do puzzle me somewhat though. You say you are bound for hell because you willfully sinned.
Then you say.....
"What do I get out of it? I love talking about the word of God. I know His word so I have to speak it. That sounds like God is in control even thou I am a sinner. That gives me some hope that there has to be something in it for me in the end."
Forgive me for even thinking it but I would be lying if I did not say that makes me wonder if you think you can somehow earn something from it.
What can be earned that was given?
3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Sorry, my copy and paste missed all of it. Here is what I meant to post
1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Unique-lies,
My question would be - How can you be full of the Holy Spirit and yet say you are destined for Hell? I am a child of the Living God, heavenly father and have no plans to go in that direction. Jesus promised he was preparing a place for us and for some reason I don't think it's Hell.
sand-flea,
I am in agreement with you but how do you reconcile the Hebrews scriptures with what you said about that assurrance we can have. You have to admit that these scriptures can cause you to wonder at times of weakness if a Christian can loose his salvation.
I have been taught in certain Church Denominations that you can loose your salvation just as quick as you can get it, then get it back again as quick as you lost it and then loose it again, etc., etc., etc.
It seemed all the emphasis was put on me the sinner instead of Christ the Saviour with these teachings. I never saw much joy in the faces of anyone coming in or out of the church doors either. I did seem to see a certain kind of fear and dread and worry in the faces.
sand-flea,
To finish up what I was saying earlier I am relying on the faith of Christ to save my sinning tale. I do not want to even start to remember thinking about the far fetched idea that I can save myself by my behaviour, works, or anything. I have to rely on what has been done for me.
Only when I fully realized it had been done for me was I able to do anything out of love instead of debt for reward.
Unique-Lies,
I'm not annoyed by anyone who strives to know and do God's will-especially when they have a burden on them to look after the rest of God's charges.
It impresses me when people work hard to get the truth out even when others may not understand or agree with what they do.
I confess I don't understand how people could love God and His creations that much when they had consciously sinned to the degree that they negated the gift of salvation.
If the Holy Spirit can give them what they need to teach others,surely she would live in them enough to heal their sick spirit.
I think sometimes the enemy tries to have it both ways.
He makes people complacent about their salvation so they won't notice factors that would put their spirits at risk plus he whispers to us that we are so awful that our corrupt nature is stronger than God's grace.
As the truth is not in him,I figure reality lies somewhere in-between.
Our relationship with God works like our bonds with our other loved ones in this respect:
We can ignore a spouse,child,parent,sibling,etc.
We can fear them,hate them,have no idea what they're really about.
We can deny any link or likeness to them-even to ourselves.
But,the family ties remain.
If we avoid the people who should be significant in our lives,we won't have the benefits a rich,respectful relationship can bring.
If we try to make time for them,learn how they think,develop shared interests and values,then we come to love them more and it's easier to build our lives around them than when they are just some stranger society says we have to tolerate.
It's easier to believe they'd stick by us,as well.
Maybe I am advocating cheap grace instead of free grace but I can't wrap my mind around a redemption that depends solely on how I believe in God or how well I take advantage of His gifts to me.
(I've latched onto a lot of dubious stuff in my day.)
My salvation is more certain because it derives more of its validity from God's belief in me.
I don't have the luxury of deciding that He exists in my mind.
It's His imagination that makes me real.
For Him to say He never knew me,He'd have to unravel and re-weave the very fabric of time because He has known me-better than I've known myself.
He knew me even before the earth and heavens came to be and He reminds me constantly of who we are to one another.
I may not see concrete evidence in the Word that salvation can't be lost but I think He'd have been much more explicit in warning us if we could jeopardize our one shot at reclaiming the inheritance He set aside when we were conceived within *Him*.
Sharon22
Jesus is the one who reads our hearts. My life is in His hands. I will go on living and doing whatever it is God gives me to do. All I can say is I am a sinner. I don't want anyone to think I am holier than they are. If I am doing the will of God maybe my name will be written in the book of life. The Bible says what you receive freely, give freely so that is what I do! Without Christ I can do nothing but though Christ all things are possible.
Jesus has prepared a place for everyone and it isn't hell I'm sure.
As y'all can guess,I'm agreeing with sand-flea,Sharon and Marvin.
I'd hope I would also be in agreement with God as well as these two or more.
Unique-Lies,I'll ask you to do what you've asked of us.
Immerse yourself in the Word and pray for correct understanding and assurance.
God would not have any of us deluded or uncertain.
His truth is probably different from what any of us assume.
(That's why He leads and we follow.)
Who benefits from doubt and confusion?
Who wants us living as if we have no hope in heaven?
Who wants to discredit,discourage and divide?
I think God will give us a greater sense of peace,balance,confidence and power the more we know Him and the better we are in alignment with His will.
Should a person love the Lord and seek to do Him honor yet feel estranged from Him and have no hope to offer anyone else?
Jesus volunteered to be cut off from the Father even as He served Him.
Indeed,that was part of His sacrifice.
But,He seems to be unique Himself in that way.
No one else seems to be subject to having love and grace to give that didn't come from God in the first place.
Sometimes,people can fail to feel a part of their body or even recognize it as theirs.
I think that can happen to spirits,too.
We stop being able to sense our connection to God.
He seems separate and alien rather than part of who we are.
But,that "foreign element" still knows its kinship to us.
I think the very fact that you concentrate on God shows He is thinking about you.
Stay in the Word and keep listening for His voice.
But,know that even when we can't act or perceive on the Lord's behalf,He is still building links to us from His end.
Our minds and abilities are finite,at best.
God will make up any shortfall.
parkerbrothers
How many times in the Bible did the Jews turn their back on God.Do a 180 and never look back except when they got into trouble.God always came to their rescue.They were always sinning.But God never left them.They knew the law but,yet they would go right back to sin.
Look at Hebrews 10:29 it talks about rejecting Jesus and making the blood an unholy thing.That is telling you what wilfully sinning is, turning your back on Jesus and rejecting him and despising the sacrifice he made for you and me.After you have known him.
Their is no other sacrifice comming.Jesus is the last one. We have to return to him or be lost.He will forgive us our sin again just like he did the first time.Don't let someone scare you because they don't understand.Jesus loves us he's always ready to forgive when we're ready to repent.
sand-flea,
That is what I have been waiting to hear from someone.
I just reread the entire of chapter of Hebrews 10 and see it as such a blessing. Not something to cause fear but instead something to be joyful for.
If someone dwells on the one verse (26) instead of the entire chapter and allows Satan an inch he will have you in terror and questioning whether sin is greater than grace.
parkerbrothers
I am in one of those denominations now.That preach loseing your salvation.I've done a lot of studying on that.I don't see where you can lose your salvation.I do see where we can lose the presence of God in our lives.By that i mean we get ourselves so seperated from God that we don't hear his voice or feel his nudges of correction any longer.We get to where we don't give him much thought any more.But that doesn't mean that he's forgotten about us.I do think we can still make it ,but it will be a close call 1 Cor 3:12-15.
parkerbrothers
PRAISE THE LORD!! I'm happy for you.
Their is one sin unto death.(NO FORGIVENESS FOR)
That is blaspheme the Holy Ghost, their is no forgiveness for that.To do that you would have to had the Holy Ghost at one time.To blaspheme him you would have to really hate Jesus.
Unique
Thanks again, you have to remember My generation still believe in Smoke Signals for communications.
I think the bible is clear on the two prophets, represented by the olive trees. Jesus told us it is once appointed for man to die.
Who left this world alive?
Elijah and Enoch
jesse sellers
Elijah, Enoch and Melchizedec never died like everyone else. A whirlwind took Elijah, God took Enoch, and Melchizedec is a preist forever who just vanished, but lives forever.
>>Melchizedec was a preist and wasn't born on earth, so He doesn't have to die like all other humans must die.
Hebrews 9:27-28
27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,
28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
>>Enoch and Elijah did not see death (YET)! They were born on earth and came from the dust so they must die like everyone else, so... They have been put into a "deep Sleep" until they will be awakened to Prophesy as the last two Prophets. Since no one has gone to heaven yet except Jesus (John 3:13), they are "sleeping" like the dead do. When they are awaken in the last days, it is then that these two men will see death at the hands of the world. They will then be raised up into heaven like Jesus was.