redcatoo

Why should homosexuals get special treatment because of A sexual addiction.God said he would put his laws in our hearts.To know right from wrong.they have a desire for sin.That doesn't come from God.If it doesn't come from God then It must come from satan.It's A desire that can be over come If they want to.God didn'n make them that way.The devil did!They know it's wrong; deep inside.They are destroying the families teaching kids It's ok to be that way,It's not and God don't like It.He never once, In the Bible said Its ok.

I don't hate homosexuals I feel sorrow for them.They are so misguided and blind to the truth.They are living In misery and don't know how to change.I'm sure they would argue that fact.It's not natural and they know It

Sand-flea . . gay people dont want "special" treatment. They want equal treatment . . . they want to be able to marry just like everyone else. How is that special treatment?

Also, anyone that believes that gay people are destroying families or destroying the institution of marriage are really stupid and ignorant of reality. People getting a divorce is what is destroying families . . . and that is done by heterosexuals.

jaxspike,

It does not matter what someone wants when it comes to the issue of being right or wrong, good or evil, light or dark.

The cocaine addict wants another snort just like the homosexual wants another mount.

The fact that the want or lust or desire is there does not make it right in the sight of God.

Eve craved to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. She wanted equal access to what she was told was wrong.

She was warned of a wrong just as you have been warned of the wrong of homosexuality.

Another issue that could be brought out of this:

Why are there homosexuals asking to be married?

If civil arrangements were enough (not all secular partnerships offer the same privileges and protections) then why wouldn't tweaking them into a fair and uniform version suffice?

Is it just that they want what they've been told they can't have?

Perhaps,they perceive what certain Catholics did when the only "legal" marriages were Protestant or what slaves and prisoners of war noticed when they were denied "official" marriage.

A covenant relationship is more than a merging of bodies or households.

It is more than a secular contract.

It is not something a worldly government can impose or deny.

People of all types who want *marriage* expect it to be more than "shacking up" or being domestic partners.

A watered-down substitute for marriage isn't enough.

They want the genuine article-even if it lacks government recognition.

Some belief systems have offered gays religious weddings within their tradition.

Our government ignores these rather as it does those for heterosexuals only.

It addresses only those unions that are dealt within secular law.

Whether Man decides it's o.k. to call polyamory,pedophilia and bestiality acceptable or whether it chooses to forbid a man from marrying his former mother-in-law ,a person of a different race or someone related to a suicide is the world's business.

We call what the world offers marriage but,in a sense,all it can offer is a civil contract.

Marriages are created by the partners and God.

That's why some traditions (such as the Quakers) don't see weddings as making people married.

They see them as public acknowledgement of unions the Lord has established.

The homosexuals pursuing this right are demanding something too many of our straight people have abandoned.

They are insisting on a permanent,legal committment that goes beyond being "friends with privileges".

They want to be there for one another in sickness and in health,in prosperity and poverty,forsaking all others and loving and honoring one another for the rest of their lives.

They want to make families-not just whoopee.

If being promiscuous hasn't been enough for gays (who have had the excuse that they CAN'T marry),why should ANYone settle for less than a spiritual committment they can declare publically?

Some have suggested that gays and straights use the same secular,legal contract for wordly recognition and follow their own consciences concerning any separate,religious rites.

(Again,the government would allow freedom of belief but would limit the practice of those beliefs to what fits it rules.)

Some have attempted to make the "sanctity of marriage" about whether a human institution can permit behavior some specific religions find abhorrent.

Perhaps,we need to ask what value alleged "perverts" find in marriage that the "normal" folk who avoid spiritual intimacy and fidelity don't?

jaxspike,

What does God think of homosexuality?

quantumcat,

For the sake of nothing but a good laugh and no harm meant at all I am going to take your question and pretend it was a joke I have to answer.

Question:

"Why are there homosexuals asking to be married?"

Answer: Because they are nuttier than a fruitcake.

BTW. According to the definition, I guess I should be signing up for Homophobes Anonymous.

To Marvin:

LOL!

You realize I've assumed marriage was a good thing (even if they don't have it in Heaven).

God told me it would be like Christ's relationship with His Church.

Lewis Grizzard said something about it making more sense to find someone you can't stand and buy them a house.

Back in the day,people decided folks didn't need a piece of paper to love.

Next,they found out you could hate without paper,too.

Now,people who got by without the documents are fighting to get them.

If they haven't been listening to God,they sure ain't been listening to Grizzard.

Michael

No where in the Bible have I ever seen marriage described between two men, or two women. I think sand-flea is right. We all have things to overcome ,and the burden is on you to tell us. I think you come in under 1 Peter 3:16-18, Philippians 2:3-4, and Proverbs 13:20- 18;24 . Keep telling us where we are missing the boat. Keep that prayer line going that shows more love than hate in God's book.

Unique-Lies,

quantumcat,

You are right about the paper thing. I myself feel that in my life I have had the piece of paper and not been truly married and later in life felt I was truly married without the piece of paper.

Where and when does marriage occur in God's eye?

Is it when the preacher says "I now pronounce you man and wife?"

Is it the moment the last of the two say "I do"?

Could it be the when the man proposes and the woman accepts?

Maybe it happens when you pay for the marriage licence and the check clears the bank?

Could it be made somewhere in the hearts before or even after the wedding ceremony?

The point I am trying to make is I believe that there are two different recognized marriages occurring at two different times every time a couple do marry as we like to use the word. At some precise given point the law of the land bound the two together. At another precise point of time God joins us together. I do not think these two times neccessarily coincide together.

I feel much the same way about divorce. The time table of the law of the land and of God may not neccessarily coincide.

All this brings me to an even more important question along the same line. At what time does salvation occur. For anything to become it has to have a precise moment of time in which before it was not and after it was?

A lot of the people who are "fighting to get a piece of paper" have been to gether for years just like most people have been. Their main issue with wanting the PIECE of PAPER is to be able to have the same rights as most married couples such as being covered under your mates medical insurance,being able to make medical decissions for your mate,legally you have to be next of kin,(aka married, or blood relitive.)To be able to recive your mates retirement,legal property, and even death benifits from social security, when your partner dies.Thats what the main issue is about, not to rub being gay in someone face.What if you were not married to your partner man or woman and say you were the one who stayed home while they went out to work or you have a part time job and did not earn the most money but you took care of the home.Lets say you have been together for 10 to 20 years, now lets say your partner dies, the one who was the real bread winner. The one who has everything in their name plus medical insurance.

You get nothing even though you have worked just as hard as to keep the home going.Everything goes to your mates blood reletives and you are put out in the cold and have to start over from 0.All of my gay frinds have been in the same relationship for 15 + years.They are not out to try to get you to join their gay club.... They just want to be able to live and not be judged just like we all do.

parkerbrothers

I feel like no church should be forced to marry two men because it goes against the Bible. But if one does or someone else in authority does then let them get married.

Paul told us that a man should not marriy a woman unless he really felt like he needed a woman. A man should stau focused on God at all times, but if he was going to have women on his mind all the time then he should marry a woman so his thoughts could return to God.

In the same turn how can a man concentrate on God if he loves another man and can't become as one with her? His sin is his punishment not ours. That is his cross he has to carry thru life.

Eventually He may see the light and return to God if he has the time to devote to God. God will put the desire for him in the hearts of all He wants to come to Him. Some people God may never call and even wax their heart cold.

ABOVE ALL ELSE God demands Love if you are to enter the Kingdom of heaven. Works without love is dead. If you hate another man, you are not of Jesus.

>> Common Law are not cheap words thrown out there in our eyes. It is the Law of The Land in this country. We have common law marriages all the time. People call it shacking up, but it is a legal marriage between two people and God. It is even more Holy than our traditional marriage because the Government is a cosigner in our marriages giving Big Brother the right to interfer in your marriages and take our children away and demand that we divorce or not and who pays who in the end.

We get a license so the Government can step into our married life and control our marriage if it so desires to.

The states have to recognize common law marriages because that is the law of the land. Hell, they approve of common law marriages because they demand that you get a legal divorce to seperate, making them a third member of your marriage when you agree.

Your marriage is between you, your spouse and God and if you get a legal license, between the state also. The state gov, like the federal gov screws up everything it gets it's hands in.

If a man wants to marry another man and wants the state involved in their marriage, by acknowledging their marriage, they have to abide by what the state says. It is just that simple.

A pagan is a pagan is a pagan and there is nothing you can do except pray for them and love them and let God deal with their hearts.

My life keeps me pretty busy minding my own business without worrying about the homosexuals coming to God.

Homosexuals, like drugs... all you have to do is say no! As far as the children go, they are going to see it on the 5 o'clock news if it is banned everywhere else.

Genesis 2, 20-24

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

God made a woman for Adam not a man.

Man should cleave to his wife not his husband.

If you believe in the Bible you cannot forget these truths. When you say live and let live, they are not hurting anyone; then you are saying you do not believe in the Bible and what God has to say about marriage (One Flesh). We rise up and speak against homosexuality because we live in the same country with it. Sodom and Gomorrah was completely destroyed because of immorality and homosexuality. I would like for that not to happen to the country I'm living in.

I agree with you. Nothing will be solved and besides they should preach to the Homosexuals not everyone on here.

Parkerbrothers . . . I am appalled and disgusted with your comments about homosexuals and your insinuation that they are only together to "mount" each other. That comment shows your lack of intelligence and ignorant mentality. I guess heterosexuals are only together so they can "mount" each other too. There are gay couple of hardly every have sex and are together because they truly love each other . . . they are two consenting adults so you can compare it to pedophilia or bestiality or any other sick sexual deviant behavior.

Posted by jaxspike on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 8:10 AM

Jaxspike,

I agree with your comment that you can compare it to pedophilia or bestiality or any other sick sexual deviant behavior.

You failed to answer a simple question? I know how you feel about it but my question was "what does God think about it?". Or was that your answer to the question when you said "they are two consenting adults so you can compare it to pedophilia or bestiality or any other sick sexual deviant behavior" which would actually be a somewhat correct answer.

quantumcat,

Sorry about the bad attempt at a joke last night. It dawned on me after I said it that it was not that funny without the actual pictures that came with it. I guess I should also realize that there are already too many unemployed comedians for me to be plugging at it. I think I will just pick up trash around the houses for a little while.

parkerbrothers....I do not know...But when I get there to see him I will ask him... I will be sure to send you a sign and let you know...But if you get there before me ..you can ask him yourself...

-- Posted by rebelrose on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 10:53 AM

Rebelrose,

If you have to wait until you see Him to ask Him you will not know Him when you see Him.

Sorry, I just heard on the 700 club that Calif okayed the same sex marriages. It may be overtuned but not before sept.

Calif, is the leader in the laws in this country so it looks like it will be okayed nationwide.

They taught the Jews first but when they refused the word of God they were allowed to teach the word of God to the Gentiles. This made the Jews very jealous and so they had to be very careful about doing this in the presents of the Jews.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 8:39 PM

Unique-Lies,

Listen, Peter was just plain wrong and does not need an excuse made for him some 2000 years later. If there was an excuse for his behaviour it would have been given then.

First, I don't think this Blog is a church service. It is a way to build on what we have learned over the years, if we get off the sins of a handful and concentrate on Gods will. How many Homosexuals did you convert with all this arguing? It has to be done in a civil pleasant manner not by a tongue lashing mob.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 8:39 PM

I am not tongue lashing anyone. Only pointing out a very basic fact. I have never seen it as arguing. You can not argue with a fact.

You may see fit to special treat this sin and you may do as you wish. I am not being lead that way. If simple logic is applied and you took every statement that has ever been made on here dealing with the sin of homosexuality and everywhere the word homosexual is used and substituted another sin (word) in its place there would be a total different way of thinking from most everyone including you.

How insane would it look for a thief or rapist or murderer to present the same appeal for consideration.

As far as how many homosexuals have I converted? None. I can not convert someone. You know better than to ask such a question. Christ does the converting.

quantumcat,

I know what you are saying and it is correct but I feel like it is not complete.

You made the statements:

"I suspect we'll all leave here with sins we haven't overcome and many we aren't aware of or haven't acknowledged." and "You know that the blood shed on Calvary removed all your iniquity,right?"

I believe this wholeheartedly just like you but I think it is not a complete statement until you acknowledge that a Christian will be "trying" to eliminate these sins that they have not yet overcome when they leave here. They will not be trying to conjure up an excuse for them. They will be asking for help to eliminate instead of telling excuses for acceptance.

Yes, the blood shed at Calvary did indeed cover all iniquity. But it did not give licence to commit all wanted iniquities. If it did I am like greasemonkey. Let's go rob a bank. It is covered by the blood. That is not going to work here or there. Convince it will and I'll cut you in on half the loot.

On an international scale, the most comprehensive study to date on the effect of same-sex marriage / partnership on heterosexual marriage and divorce rates was conducted looking at over 15 years of data from the Scandinavian countries. The study (later part of a book), by researcher Darren Spedale, found that, 15 years after Denmark had granted same-sex couples the rights of marriage, rates of heterosexual marriage in those countries had gone up, and rates of heterosexual divorce had gone down - contradicting the concept that same-sex marriage would have a negative effect on traditional marriage.[69]

All U.S. states submit monthly summaries of vital statistics on births, deaths, marriages, and divorces to the U.S. Center For Disease Control's National Center For Health Statistics (NCHS) who then prepares monthly and yearly reports. The following statistics are based on that NCHS material. Over three years have passed now since same-sex marriage was legalized in Massachusetts and data from all of 2004 and 2005 are now available.

The current divorce trends in Massachusetts counter claims of same-sex marriage having a negative impact on traditional marriage. In fact, for several years now the Commonwealth has had the lowest divorce rate of any state in the union. In 2004 the Massachusetts divorce rate, at 2.2 per 1,000 residents per year, was considerably lower than the U.S. national average rate for that year, 3.8 per 1,000 and close to the national average of 2.0 back in 1940. In the first two years of same-sex marriage in the Bay State, the rate of divorce showed a steady decline making it likely that Massachusetts will continue to have the lowest divorce rate in the nation.

States which have taken aggressive action against same-sex marriage have not done nearly as well during the two year period of legal same-sex marriage in Massachusetts. The preliminary data from 2004 and 2005--from the 17 U.S. states which have provided data on divorce for 2004 and 2005 and whose voters also passed state constitutional amendments prohibiting same-sex marriage--presents a striking picture: the group of U.S. states arguably most hostile to divorce, those which have passed both state laws and also state constitutional amendments prohibiting same-sex marriage, lag dramatically in terms of divorce rate improvement when compared to same-sex marriage-friendly states.

Among those U.S. states that are most opposed to same-sex marriage which have also provided divorce data for the time period -- Arkansas, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Utah, Texas -- the average divorce rate ( unadjusted for population changes ) for 2004 and 2005 increased 1.75%. This group contains 4 of the 5 states with the highest divorce rate increases in the U.S. during 2004 and the first 11 months of 2005.

A little odd, considering... It goes against everything the fear-mongerers would have you believe. The most applicable advice I can give any of you concerning same-sex marriage is, that if you're own marriage were going smoothly you wouldn't be so concerned about everyone else's. This is so true among heterosexual couples as well. The folks who look at other marriages in comparison to their own cause me to laugh hysterically. Why do ANY of us care who Jo and Susy are doing in their bedroom, or John and Jim, or WHOEVER... Perhaps if your own lives weren't so dull and full of despair, you'd see that not everyone seeks to be as miserable as all of you.

parkerbrother....SHAME ON YOU....YOU ARE A VERY UGLY MAN...I WILL KNOW HIM WHEN I SEE HIM...WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE????? I THINK YOU ARE A VERY RUDE AND UGLY PERSON......I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU HAVE A KIND BONE IN YOU...YOU ARE NOT EVEN WORTH ANSWERING BACK TO. I BELIEVE IT IS A WASTE OF TIME TO EVEN READ ANYTHING YOU HAVE TO SAY....GOD HAS TAUGHT ME TO LOVE EVERYONE AND NOT JUDGE ANYONE...IT IS NOT MY PLACE OR YOUR PLACE TO JUDGE ANYONE....YOU ARE A VERY RUDE PERSON

Oh and by the way.. Does anyone realize the economy is pathetic. The war is pathetic. The weather is odd. Thousands of people are dying by religious persecution in foreign lands. Earthquakes, hurricanes, cyclones, and tornadoes have begun ravaging the earth taking millions of innocent lives. Many people are having to decide between food and fuel. We cater to terrorists by virtue of the CIA. We don't prosecute crooks in the Bush administration. The people who lost EVERYTHING they saved from Enron, Arthur Andersen, WorldCom and so many more haven't been served justice. People in New Orleans STILL NEED HOMES, veterans are living on the streets, military bases are indescribably despicable. The Patriot Act, Guantanamo Bay, and other secret CIA prison camps around the world go 100% against the Geneva Accords. Three of the top 5 largest U.S. corporations in 2006, 2007, and soon-to-be-2008 were OIL companies, the divorce rate (amongst HETEROSEXUALS) trumps the marriage rate, people are dying of cancer, we are selling this country to China as we speak.... Yet the most important thing on many people's agenda is continuing to oppress the gays... If only those who are so against something that doesn't even exist in great magnitude, were FOR doing something good for the world, wouldn't this thing called Earth be a little more amazing. It's no wonder these atrocities are continuing to happen. Because we sit by and let them happen, but you would let hell freeze over before you realize it's not YOUR decision to interfere with anyone's happiness.

jesuslovesevery1,

No one is wanting to oppress the gays. I think they are wanting to liberate them. From deception that is. All the things you mentioned above are nothing compared to the eternal soul of one deceived one.

jesuslovesevery1,

No one is wanting to oppress the gays. I think they are wanting to liberate them. From deception that is. All the things you mentioned above are nothing compared to the eternal soul of one deceived one.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 11:54 PM

Well deceived you are... Because if those things are "nothing" to you... you are one completely misguided human being.

LMFAO. Stupid.

jesuslovesevery1,

Read slowly what was said. I did not say they were nothing. I said they were nothing compared to the eternal soul of one deceived one.

Let me say the same thing in another way. The things you mentioned are monumental. The value of one eternal soul however is a billion times more monumental that even those things you mentioned which were of a short term physical nature.

LMFAO is what I meant if you were trying to decide.

Good night to Everyone...Parkerbrothers I hope you can sleep in peace at night...I know I can

rebelrose,

Always.

To JlE what car are we talking about I used to sell cars for a living at one time The inly vehicle I have sold on my own was a truck .

how bout some more hints?

parkerbrothers,

> You are confused in what I have said. I am not interested in casting anyone into Hell nor am I capable of such power. I desire to see them pulled out of what deception is pushing them into.

"What you bind on earth will be binded in heaven and what you loose on eath will be loose in heaven."

> You were also confused about me wanting to go out and lay hands on everyone and fill them with the Holy spirit last week. Yes, I would like to be able to do this but I am not in control of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is in control of me. I would have to be the controller to be the filler.

"If you are born again and adide in His Word, you ARE His disciple indeed. As a disciple you have the same power in Jesus's name as His disciples had. You have a power of attorney to use Jesus's name to heal, cast out demons and even raise the dead if you believe."

Most Christians get upset when they heard about someone laying hands on people to ask God to heal them. They just can't beleive that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

If you are born again you have the power to lay hands on and should. You can baptise in the Holy Spirit, so why aren't you? Jesus said if you are too embarrassed to try to heal or lay hands on, then he will deny you before His Father. Lay hands on the Homosexuals and cast out the afflictions satan has laid on them, Then you can say you have done God's will and done something speakable for the Homosexuals. You condemn them, but won't do anything to cast out the demon in them that makes them have these "unnatural" desires.

>I never said you were going to Hell for any reason. I know not where you are going. You made the claim of your destination to Hell. I like others found it peculiar for you to make such a statement of yourself. I think we asked for clarification and did not see it.

You got it... you just can't accept it nor believe it, because you know it applies to everyone of us!

>Sorry for the short delay. I was somewhat detained. The truth had set a few fires and it was a little smokey on the road back.

Isn't that exactly what I told Michael? "Relax and move on before he lost people in his congregation or his non-profit status." Isn't that what just happened to you with you hate for the Gays? I know it is wrong but God has to change their desire to come to Him before we can help them. Right now they don't want help, just left alone to enjoy their lives.

I said earlier that our U.S. Constitution guarantees us certain rights and the states nor the churches can take them away.

My last line on Homosexuals is this: Look at all the churches that have preachers and/or elders who are having Homosexual experiences with boys and young men then you want to talk about others. Clean the Lords house first then cast your stones at the rest. This goes on without you even knowing it because some people think Homosexuality shound stay in the dark.

rebelrose,

Yes, forgive me also if you were offended but try to understand that you have acknowledged yourself to be a Christian and had earlier expressed your opinion and made comments that did not condemn homosexuality and I then asked you "What did God think of it?". You then made another comment that said you would have to wait to see him to ask Him. I was simply saying that if you know his Word you should already know Him and know of His wrath toward any sin including but but limited to Homosexuality and would not have to wait until you see Him to ask his opinion. He has clearly stated it and I know it. You as a Sister should know what our God thinks of this sin and others. My apology is extended to you for your hurt feelings, not for my beliefs or opinion which is still the same today as it was yesterday and will be tommorrow.

I also want to clarify something you said about me and others Hating Homosexuals. I absolutely have no hatred at all toward anyone. I actually care enough about even the ones (Homosexuals) I have never met nor will ever be priviledged to meet to not want to see their eternal soul to be deceived. We (the ones you say have hatred) actually may be the only ones that care at all about the Homosexuals. Most everyone is willing to support and show acceptance of their open sin and have no interest in pulling them from the fire. Let em go is their attitude. That attitude has no care or feelings whatsoever for another soul other than their's.

If you had a child and knew there was danger down the road but he wanted to go more than anything in his life and insisted that it was all okay because others were saying it was all right to go what would you do? If you absolutely knew that his or her death was going to be the result of you accepting his most wanted desire to go how would you respond in love to him or her?

Is it love when you let him or her to be deceived happy? There is a big difference between short term happiness and long term joy. Not always but usually they originate from two opposite sources that are as different as Dark and Light.

The obvious reason that I oppose homosexuality is that it goes against the way I was raised up.

I was raised on a normal household with a mother and father who taught me it that is was wrong.

It goes against the bible for it says to be fruitful and multiply, last time I checked, yall can't do that.

Bible says that for a marriage bed of a man and woman is undefiled.

Even if I was satanist or whatever else I would believe it was wrong.

If one generation were to be that way and raise their kids that way , how long would it take for it to die out.

I feel that if equality is given to them that it will be imposed on my children and other Christian children to where they won't know what is normal or abnormal.

Some say that the "world " should not be my concern but as long as I am still in the flesh it is my home and I want to see it have biblical values and come to the understanding that it needs a Saviour.

The bible says that Every Knee Will Bow and Every Tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord I choose to do it now so whether you gain entrance into Heaven or are cast into Hell , you will confess.

We may have to tolerate gay rights , but we don't have to accept it as right or morally acceptable.

This all comes down to,do you believe the Bible or not!We can debate back and forth till the cows come home.But if you don't believe what the word of God says your not going to change anything in your life.

We will all keep on doing and believing what ever we want to.People will decide what they think is right for them.No matter what we as christans have to say,the unbelievers will not listen.The sad part is, the ones who claim to be christans agreeing with the unbelievers.That makes the true christians look like they are judgemental and hateful.When they state what the Bible says.Because they are not afraid to speak the truth,just because it might hurt someone's feelings.It just might save a soul from hell.

We can tell ourselves that something is right long enough that we will begin to believe it.Just because the gulit feeling is gone doesn't mean God has changed his mind about a sin.Or because man has made a law that say's its ok doesn't make it ok with God.It just draws people further into the lie.I'm not just harping on homosexuals,I'm talking about living together,having affairs on the side too they all destroy society also.Their is no more trust in people mom and dad can't get along argueing all the time.Children grow up unsettled and nervous and hateful to people.

My point is God gave us a good set of guide lines to live by.We just have to believe in him and trust him.But if we don't believe the Bible; we end up with a world like we have now.Not knowing what is truth.By not knowing truth we can't make a right decision about anything, because all of our decisions are based on lies.Decisions based on lie after,after lie,after lie ends in confusion.Isn't that what we have now in the world.

We need God now more than we ever have.All those that are true christians to stand up open our mouths and proclaim the gospel of Christ and not worry about who's feelings it hurts That's what Jesus did,if you don't believe that, you need to go back and read the New Testament again.Theres' no need to argue, state what the Lord had to say, let the truth be proclaimed and move on.The true christians do not have to defend the word of God it will stand on its' own.

P.S.

rights4all - If you have any questions about what God thinks about your group go to Romans 1:28-1:32 and get your answer.Maybe it will help you make a wise decision.

Unique - I finaly got to read your last statement on the Nero blog. My answer is this. Some christians believe Melchizedec came back in human form and also died. He was called Jesus in human form.

sand-flea,

I read your above post and want to say that it says what I feel. I wish I had better communication skills. I try to say (type) what I feel (which is almost exactly what you posted) but it seems to come out wrong when I do it and I get flogged.

I especially feel what you said in..."The sad part is, the ones who claim to be christans agreeing with the unbelievers."

Maybe the key word in that statement is "claim".

Maybe you and I have been deceived into thinking all "claims" are valid.

A lot of claiming went on out West during the Gold Rush. A lot of those claims were deemed invalid after checking in the Record Book.

That is what most of this discussion is about, the majority in California voted against the queers calling their union with each other marriage.Marriage is covenant word given to a male and female when they join together as one.

God also gave yours one. It's called an abomination. Now he gave you a choice and I pray you make the right one.Your group is trying to justify their life style. That is why they wanted to be called (G.A.Y.s) because it sounded more socially acceptable, and that is also the reason they want to have their unions called marriage.

Sorry Charley, that word was given to Male and Female unions. Your group need to find another name to call it's legal contract between two males,or two females. You have that right here in this country to do so. Go to Iran and try to justify it there.

The voice of millions should be honored in California over the voice of seven.

-- Posted by jesse sellers on Sun, May 18, 2008, at 2:20 AM

jesse sellers,

I appreciated your comment above. It made me see what was bothering me in particular with this sin (Homosexuality).

It is the "push" for acceptance of use of the word marriage. To allow them to use the word marriage forces me to have to loose something. To hear the word marriage used for homosexuals violates everything I have been taught to associate with that word.

I honestly believe I would not have any problems with the law allowing them to be united in a ceremony of abomination. I could even accept having taxes taken out of my wages of work to provide health care for them so long as a rider or exclusion was put on it for Aids or any other type plague or disease associated with the abomination they were forewarned of.

My health and life insurance has riders on it for any high risk behaviors that I participate in. I almost never got life insurance because I participated in deep water diving, flying planes and racing cars. I was penalized for enjoying behaviors that were somewhat of a risk although they were not as risky as homosexual behavior nor are they considered abominations.

Perhaps that could be a compromise. Give homosexuals equal rights but also equal responsibilities. I think I would even vote for what they want if:

#1 - They would choose another word instead of marriage for their union. We have correctly labeled unions between man and woman as "marriage" for thousands of years. It is a Holy Word. I might even go far as to support them if they would correctly call their union an "abomination" which is the correct Holy Word for their union. It should be their responsibility to find another word for their union and not weaken and redefine our word of "marriage".

#2 - They would agree to exclusions and riders being attached to all their benefits and coverage's of their known high risk behaviors and accepts the responsibilities of their desires.

I could go along with that here and let God have the final word on it there.

If you are born again you have the power to lay hands on and should. You can baptise in the Holy Spirit, so why aren't you? Jesus said if you are too embarrassed to try to heal or lay hands on, then he will deny you before His Father. Lay hands on the Homosexuals and cast out the afflictions satan has laid on them, Then you can say you have done God's will and done something speakable for the Homosexuals. You condemn them, but won't do anything to cast out the demon in them that makes them have these "unnatural" desires.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sat, May 17, 2008, at 11:18 AM

Unique-Lies,

There are a few things about the above post that I have questions about.

#1 - What book, verse and chapter did you find ..."Jesus said if you are too embarrassed to try to heal or lay hands on, then he will deny you before His Father." I missed that somewhere and I am interested in finding it.

#2 - You loosely throw the term "condemn them". I know you know better than to insinuate that. I condemn no one nor many nor you. I absolutely condemn the act and sin of homosexuality but not the soul of the homosexual. I actually care for them but condemn and despise the deception and the deceptor.

#3 - How many have you laid hands on and healed? I have never performed, witnessed nor experienced either. If I had that gift or power I would be at the hospitals, nursing homes, prisons, rehabilitation centers, etc., etc. half the time and spend the other half turning down lucrative offers from people, insurance companies and medical professionals since I would do if for free. I may be wrong but I think that gift and power along with many others was given for a brief period of time for a specific reason. I am not saying it can not occur today but rather it is the exception today as it was the normal of that time period.

Isn't that exactly what I told Michael? "Relax and move on before he lost people in his congregation or his non-profit status." Isn't that what just happened to you with you hate for the Gays? I know it is wrong but God has to change their desire to come to Him before we can help them. Right now they don't want help, just left alone to enjoy their lives.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Sat, May 17, 2008, at 10:58 AM

Unique-Lies,

Two questions about your above comment:

#1 - Why do you insinuate I hate the gays? How many times can I say I actually care for each and every one of them and still not get the point across to everyone. It is their deceptor that I do not like and a deceptor is any one who tries to accomplish what Satan did with Eve when he tried to clerely insinuate and tell her something was indeed right when God had told them it definitely was not. The almost exact thing is occurring on here with some people claiming to be Christians.

#2 - The last sentence of your above post says to let them alone and let them enjoy their lives and God has to change their desires. However in another post you tell me I am suppossed to be out laying hands on them and healing them and insinuate that I will be denied before my Father if I am not. Which is it today?

Unique

Read the complete chapter of Hebrews 7 and study on verses 12,13,14.

Thanks for the new web sites, I may start having more respect for this machine.

parkerbrothers

You stated in one of your posts that you thought that the gifts of healing was given for a brief period of time.

That is not true, he gave gifts to his church for the benefit of all.His gifts are given without repentence.All the gifts mentioned in the Bible are for us today also.Read Mark 16:15-18,John 14;12 1Cor 12, James 5:13-15.

The Lord also stated the he would answer our prayers if we believed and didn't doubt.It sounds too simple JUST BELIEVE.

Their are many more scriptures to back this up. I will search them out for you.

Parker

I challenged this generation a few blogs back to live in freedom longer than I do. I see the signs of freedom being taken away because of the failures of my generation, such as letting our leaders answer to large companies instead of to us. It's not our army that is going to fail, it's us, the public, that will lose the freedom.

Just like abortion -- my generation let judges make laws that are against God's law. Those laws aren't legal. We failed to train our children, and grand childern that sex isn't a sporting event. It is a life and death matter.

Doctors had to change their hippocratic oath to do abortions. The love of money created most of this mess.

My hat's off to most of this generation, because you will have a hard fight ahead of you to straightien out this mess we are leaving you with.

parkerbrothers

I will be up for a while tonight if you need to talkmore about this.

parkerbrothers

> #1 - What book, verse and chapter did you find ..."Jesus said if you are too embarrassed to try to heal or lay hands on, then he will deny you before His Father." I missed that somewhere and I am interested in finding it.

>> That was something I read back in the early '70's and I have no idea where to find it now. I have forgotten more verse locations than most people will ever know. I used to take notes everyday and had several note books full of note giving me the locations for everything I felt was important to me. When I moved I put a lot of my personal things in storage. My work stopped and I lost everything I had in storage because I had other bills to pay that were more important than my storage bill. Our personel property has been distributed all over Bedford county by auctions, etc.. Someone out there has my notes.

> #2 - You loosely throw the term "condemn them". I know you know better than to insinuate that. I condemn no one nor many nor you. I absolutely condemn the act and sin of homosexuality but not the soul of the homosexual. I actually care for them but condemn and despise the deception and the deceptor.

>> Not only were you condemning the Homosexuals, but me also because I am saying to leave them alone and do good where you can. The Homosexuals is a mute issue for us. This isn't a church, just a blog to express your thoughts and beliefs. You have expressed your thoughts on them and Calif. doesn't care what you think. We were talking about the Homosexuals in Calif weren't we?

> #3 - How many have you laid hands on and healed? I have never performed, witnessed nor experienced either. If I had that gift or power I would be at the hospitals, nursing homes, prisons, rehabilitation centers, etc., etc. half the time and spend the other half turning down lucrative offers from people, insurance companies and medical professionals since I would do if for free. I may be wrong but I think that gift and power along with many others was given for a brief period of time for a specific reason. I am not saying it can not occur today but rather it is the exception today as it was the normal of that time period.

>> I have only laid hands on myself. I was given the gift of knowledge so I stay with it.

Mark 9:38-41

38 "Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."

39 "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me,

40 for whoever is not against us is for us.

This tells us that even a person who isn't a born again christian can lay hands on and heal and cast out demons.

It even proves what Jesus meant when he said many will say I cast out demons and healed people and Jesus will say I don't know you.

One of the most important verses is: Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. That means His Gifts are ours forever not just for the apostles nor just for back then. Jesus's gifts go on forever. Don't you watch any TV at all? People are being healed everyday by God in Jesus' name.

>> You parkerbrothers, are confusing us regular christian sinners with the Holy Apostles and disciples.-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 8:39 PM

Unique-Lies, - This might actually apply to some of your thoughts.

>> That is true. You have to believe what you think is the truth. Am I telling everyone lies? You know I am going to say it is the Truth and not Lies!

>>> What do you say I tell? Am I lieing to you and everyone else?

Unique-Lies

I've often wondered, why you don't have your own church to teach in.

Unique-Lies

I don't know about being labled an occult.But I do know you would rub some people the wrong way.

Wouldn't it be more fulfilling and the will of God.With someone with so much knowledge teaching his people the truth.And displacing all the fiction.

You are correct about people studying the word for themselves.Also they need a teacher to guide them through the Bible, not everyone can understand It's meaning.

I also read your post about Melchizedek in the blog(Remember Nero) I thought it made a lot of sense.Looks like it took a lot of researching. Thanks!

Unique-Lies,

In reference to #1 above I do not think you will find it in the KJV. You might have read it in someone's book or commentary attempt in the 70's.

In reference to #2 I somehow still can not understand you thoughts and definitions of condemning someone. Again I ask how many times do I have to say that I only condemn the sin and not the sinner? If there is any thing to describe how I feel about the homosexual himself it is sorrow. I fell sorry for how they each have been deceived. I fell even more sorrow for the individuals who claim to be Christians that help with the deception by giving acceptance to the sin in any form or fashion.

As far as your remark about the issue being about California. I must have forgot while I was reading your post. Unless Melchisedec is in California now I think maybe we all forgot the subject matter. I do however enjoy all your post and have learned much from them, especially on your perception of Revelation and the "sleep".

Your explanation of Mark 9:38-41 might be accurate but I do not see it as saying... "This tells us that even a person who isn't a born again christian can lay hands on and heal and cast out demons." and "It even proves what Jesus meant when he said many will say I cast out demons and healed people and Jesus will say I don't know you."

None of the disciples were what I believe you are calling "born again Christians" at that point of time when they said this to Jesus. He was still in route to the cross when this was said. The word Christian was not used until years later at Antioch.

The ones that Jesus does not acknowledge that you reference are not these. I believe He was referring to the self righteous that thought their works earned them a relationship with Him. They never had a need for Jesus since they were working self righteous and therefore never developed a relationship with Him. They never knew or needed Him and failed to know Him for what he was. If He knew not them, they knew not Him. They were workers of iniquity. They were relying on their works. They were working, but not toward Him as a needed Savior. They did not see a need to be saved. They thought they deserved it in this teaching lesson of His.

And theyre tared of hidin behind those doars.

sand-flea,

Unfortunately I have not seen the laying on of hands and a healing. As I said lately I am not saying they are not happening, only that I think they are the exception today as much as they were the purpose of that time.

Maybe this subject is much like uniques new explanations of Revelation and the "sleep" to me because I had heard different for years upon years. I have to say that no one has proven him wrong on this "sleep" and most of what I read now I better understand and see since reading his post. It does take time time however to work out of you what has been worked in.

The thing that puzzles me is why I have not run into one of the gifted at a hospital or somewhere. Why are they not out using their gift to heal the sick? They would not have to travel far to find the most willing to believe and in dire needs of healing.

I read all the chapters of the verses you had mentioned earlier but did not come away with the belief that many of these gifts had not ceased for a period of time. At least not in their frequency of being displayed to man.

I have heard with my own ears what was told to me was "speaking in tongues". It was not however what I had read about in the Bible. The actual gift of speaking in tongues I have read about is for a sign for unbelievers. It is a controllable tongue since Paul said not to use the gift if there was not an interpretor with you and it was to be done in order. What I saw was uncontrollable charismatic chaos. Everyone was "speaking in tongues" at the same time and no interpretor to be found.

My belief in the gift of tongues is different than what I have seen or witnessed because I had an understanding that was derived from what I had read in the Bible about it and it differed from the visual.

If I had the gift of tongues I think I would be able to speak in an unknown tongue to me what was a known tongue to the unbeliever. I have never studied the Chinese language. If I became enabled by gift to speak the gospel in Chinese to a person who was of that tongue and he knew I was an American and knew that I had never spoke his tongue it would be a sign for him as an unbeliever to believe. It was needed during the aposolic dispensation for a purpose. I have always been taught that these gifts were to cease for a season.

Again, I am not saying they do not occur today. I only say that I have not witnessed these things for myself that agreed with the teaching of the Bible. I am a human though and can be wrong and/or dislead about these matters. I may be building on the Foundation with hay or stubble but I know I have the correct Foundation on the footing. Only the gift of Charity will withstand all time.

Let me know what you have personally seen or done and explain to me why this gift is not being used in places it is needed as we speak.

parkerbrothers

> In reference to #1 above I do not think you will find it in the KJV. You might have read it in someone's book or commentary attempt in the 70's.

>> Your right. I wouldn't know the difference between the KJV Bible and someone's book or commentary, especially since I have always read several different Bibles at the same time to make sure I know what I am reading. Believe me, it's hidden in the KJV somewhere.

> In reference to #2 I somehow still can not understand you thoughts and definitions of condemning someone. Again I ask how many times do I have to say that I only condemn the sin and not the sinner?

>> You can condemn the sin all you want to but it's senseless because it is the law and the law makes us sin. It is the sinner who is condemned by God and must repent not the sin.

> I fell even more sorrow for the individuals who claim to be Christians that help with the deception by giving acceptance to the sin in any form or fashion.

>> I have more important things to worry about than someone who wants to sin wilfully and is never going to be forgiven by God. You can waste your time on them all you like, but don't look for them to come running to you for saving.

> As far as your remark about the issue being about California. I must have forgot while I was reading your post. Unless Melchisedec is in California now I think maybe we all forgot the subject matter.

>> Not sure what this is all about. I must have mentioned something about Melchisedec in the wrong blog. BTW If you get around to reading my post about Melchisedec, you will find that he is (in a way) in california now also.

> Your explanation of Mark 9:38-41 might be accurate but I do not see it as saying... "This tells us that even a person who isn't a born again christian can lay hands on and heal and cast out demons."

>> Anyone who has the faith the size of a mustard seed can do anything they believe they can do! That includes walking on water or raising the dead. I admit I don't have that kind of Faith but I believe what the Bible says.

"Criss Angel" is a good example of what someone can do who has Faith and Believes they can do it.

Criss Angel is not a born again Christian that I know of. In fact, he is a "Magician" that God despises.

> and "It even proves what Jesus meant when he said many will say I cast out demons and healed people and Jesus will say I don't know you."

>> Matthew 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Does this not say that many will do miracles without being "Born Again Christians"?

> None of the disciples were what I believe you are calling "born again Christians" at that point of time when they said this to Jesus. He was still in route to the cross when this was said. The word Christian was not used until years later at Antioch.

>> that answer was in reply to Paul chewing Peter out. At that time the Holy Ghost had descended upon them and Jesus had ascended into heaven by then.

> The ones that Jesus does not acknowledge that you reference are not these...They were workers of iniquity. They were relying on their works.

>> You just described the man who was casting devils out of someone and the disciples told him to stop. This also speaks of several people who are not Born Again Christians but applies to so many people.

sand-flea

> Mark 9:38 "Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."

>> Here we see that it was "one man" that the disciples didn't know. The disciples thought that they were the only ones who could do these miracles besides Jesus. (doesn't that prove that anyone can do miracles like laying on of hands without being filled with the Holy Spirit or being boarn again?)

>>39 "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us.

(This doesn't sound like a false prophet to me or God wouldn't say what He did in verse 39. The man wasn't born again because Jesus hadn't been crucified yet and he wasn't a false prophet or an unforgiveable sinner.)

>>I agree with pb about the Lord saying (I NEVER KNEW YOU).I think they are false prophets.

Matthew 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These verses explain themselves. Many people will do miracles but not get to go to heaven because they didn't do the will of God. Miricales and casting out demons are gifts, but can be performed by many who don't do God's will.

The whole subject was.... anyone can do these miracles if they only believe they can. I was making a point to Parkerbroothers and he wanted more proof as to what I was saying and probably doesn't even remember what we were talking about.

Glad you understood my explaination of who Melchisedec was. I put it on my temporary website: Unique-Lies.com

>> You can condemn the sin all you want to but it's senseless because it is the law and the law makes us sin. It is the sinner who is condemned by God and must repent not the sin.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 11:24 PM

I do not believe the law "makes" us sin. I believe it shows us our sin but I do not think it "makes" us sin. I believe the law is our schoolmaster that leads us to see a need for a Savior who fulfilled the Law. This law is what got nailed to the cross.

I agree that it is the sinner that must repent and not the sin. However, that is why you have to condemn the sin as being what it is. It is a sin. The sooner someone realizes that it is a sin the sooner they thus realize they are a sinner. Jesus came to save the sinner, not the righteous. There are none righteous, no not one. So did he come to save everyone as some believe? No, he came to save the sinner. Well, we were all sinners? No, the difference was some knew they were sinners and some never did accept that fact. That is what He was talking about. Remember the two in the temple praying? One knew he was a sinner and one did not. Which did Jesus say was justified? Remember the two thieves on the cross? One knew he was a sinner and one did not. Which one did Jesus say would be with Him in Paradise?

The plan of salvation is a simple plan. We have to realize we are sinners in Gods eyes, God has a wrath for sin, God has a love for the sinner and God has a provided a redemption for the sinner. It is His plan however and the Potter has the right to determine the plan for the Pot.

Being puffed up with knowledge can blind you to the simplicity, especially if it has Pride served with it. Jesus condemned the most learned and religous people of His earthly life. None were more religous and learned than the scribes and Pharisees. They knew so much but saw so little. Their needed Savior stood in front of them eye to eye and they never saw Him. Why? They thought they knew how to save themselves. Why would they look for something they thought they had. Do you search for something when you see it in your hands? Knowledge with pride is a dangerous thing.

>> Not sure what this is all about. I must have mentioned something about Melchisedec in the wrong blog. BTW If you get around to reading my post about in california now also., you will find that he is (in a way) in california now also.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 11:24 PM

You mentioned Him in this blog. The one you said I strayed off the subject of. I was just reminding you if I strayed I had followed you.

Yes, (in a way) as you said, Melchisedec is in California now also. I think Melchisedec was in California before there was a California.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Does this not say that many will do miracles without being "Born Again Christians"?

Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 11:24 PM

No, it says they are professing to have done these things.

Look at what they are actually saying. They are telling Him what they have done deserving Justification. They have never realized that He is the Justifier and what He did for them. They were in essence saying they had justified themselves. I do not see a sinner looking to a Savior in this instance. I see self righteous men justifying themselves before the Justifier. They never knew Him as Savior and He never knew them as needing Salvation. They never looked for him because they never seen a need for Him for what he was. They were their own saviors. They had their own plan.

> The ones that Jesus does not acknowledge that you reference are not these...They were workers of iniquity. They were relying on their works.

>> You just described the man who was casting devils out of someone and the disciples told him to stop. This also speaks of several people who are not Born Again Christians but applies to so many people.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 11:24 PM

No, two seperate events and topics. You have confused the two.

> Everything you said in that post boils down to these two last replies:

1.) The ones that Jesus does not acknowledge that you reference are not these...They were workers of iniquity. They were relying on their works.

>> Yes you are right, but then you should be, because it plainly says in the last line that "they are workers of iniquity".

Who are workers of iniquity? Born again christians who have fallen away to the law, people who think Good works without faith will get them to heaven, people who have faith but do no good works to get into Gods' Kingdom, the unbelievers, those who aren't under the "Grace" of God, anti-christs and the false prophets.

2.) No, two seperate events and topics. You have confused the two.

>> Each different set of scriptures proves the other.

The man who lays hands on was NOT a disciple. The desciples didn't know this man, yet he casts out demons. He is doing good works but they are not of God. That makes him a person who does work of iniquity doing this laying on of hands.

I used these two seperate passages to prove the one and main question you had. Can anyone lay hands on someone and heal them today? These scriptures prove "Anyone" righteous or not can go around healing anyone. It won't get them into heaven, but anyone can.

You are teaching like the churches. You read the scriptures but don't comprehend them. You think they mean only what the words say. They say much more when you know the truth because you can use the logic of what you know to understand what they mean and know that one always proves another somewhere else in the bible.

Since I appearently confuse the events and topics in the Bible and read things in the Bible that aren't in the Bible according to you, I have no business teaching the word to you. You have found the truth and it will set you free. My work here is done! You should now know that people are being healed everyday today, because Jesus is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. Years ago the beliefs of the people stopped the healings not Jesus.

Someone finally read the Bible and realised that it could be taken literally. If the Bible can't be taken Literally, what is the purpose of reading it. If you believe one scripture but not the other then why read any of the scriptures.

Why do people Not read the Book of Revelation when it explains hundreds of answers to the questions people have been asking for centuries. When a book in the Bible starts talking about something they don't like, why do they go around that book.

Thealogians have discussed removing Revelation from the Bible because it doesn't match the rest of the Bible. The Bible talks about a loving God then all of a sudden, whamm. What happened to all that Love God had. It scares the thealogians so bad they want to remove it. Not going to be a problem, because the whole bible will soon be replaced and everyone will have a simple Bible of the new religion that anyone will be able to understand because nothing will be hidden from the sinners.

parkerbrothers

> Matthew 7:15-24

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

>> Beware of false prophets. The liar won't tell the truth and a person telling the truth doesn't lie. You can see thru them if they aren't what they say they are.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

> Verse 21 says "not everyone" shall enter the kingdom of heaven. Many will try but not everyone will enter the kigdom of heaven. Only he who "does the will of God" will enter the kingdom of heaven.

> Verse 22 says Many people will say to the Lord haven't we prophesied, cast out demons and done many wonderful works in your name? They may be good christians or they may be false prophets or anywhere inbetween, but they are confessing to Jesus that they did do these things because this represents judgement day and they are pleading for their lives.

> In verse 23 it says Jesus then tells them "I never knew you: depart from me ye that work iniquity." Whatever is in their hearts will show up and Jesus will know what their intent was.

It doesn't change the fact that these many people told Jesus that they did do all these miacles in his name. They did the good works without the charity or the love or the will of God.

> and in verse 24 Jesus says who every hears these words of his, AND DOES THEM is like a wise man who builds his house on a solid foundation and then goes on in the remaining verses to talk about this wise man building on a rock and a foolish man builds on sand. In other words, watch out for flase prophets. The only thing Jesus is telling you to "DO" in these verses is to watch out for false prophets and do the Will of God!

These verses explain that many people "DID" these miracles in His name, but Jesus is rejecting them because they didn't do the will of God. These verses are literal and not symbolic trees and/or fruits.

They prove that people of any stature can do miracles in Jesus' name. This would also include you and I if we put our minds to it. Try it! You have nothing to lose.

I am going to hell as far as I am concerned because I have wilfully sinned. The punishment for wilfully sinning is there is NO more Forgiveness. Jesus died once for everyone and that is all we get. (Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:10-12)

It was also reported back in the old testament. Wilfull sinners were to be cut off from the people , but unintentional sinners could be forgiven. (Numbers 15:28-31)

These verses are as plain as the nose on your face.

In Matthew 7:17-19 Jesus uses trees to represent men and the fruit as what they produce with their lives. He is telling you to beware of the false prophets. Then Jesus tells us that each man will produce the fruit of his true self.

In verse 20, Everyone who is doing Gods will should be able to see the fruit that each person bares and whether or not it is what they proclaim to be.

Then He starts over again with another example in verses 21-23.

He uses many people claiming to do many miracles in his name. They do the miracles in his name but it is a work of iniquity. In other words, doing these Miracles as thou they will go to heaven if they do these miracles in his name, but Jesus see thru them like in the previous verses and tells them he doesn't know them and to get away from him.

Verses 24-27 Jesus speaks of the wise and foolish builders. The wise do Gods Will and build on rock. The false prophets decieve people, so they build on sand like the foolish builder.

parkerbrothers

> You say your work here is done. If it be a work of the Lord it will stay with us. If it be of something else it will leave us because it never was one of us.

>> I was working on a website of my own putting the answers to hundreds of questions on it. I needed a break and happened to stumble onto this blog site and found it interesting. I decided to use it as a test to see how well my rebellious (yet Truthful) answers would be accepted or rejected by people.

I can't make people want to know more but I think I have opened many eyes. Some accept what I say and some reject what I say. Some test it and some want me to test it for them and let them decide.

One thing we all have in common is that all of us christians were taught pretty much the same things and in the same manner. As many of you can see I have rubbed people the wrong way with what I know. Remember, I was taught for years the same things you were taught. Imagine how I felt when I read the truth for myself. I suspected I was being told lies at an early age. I figured I must be wrong because I was reading different things in my Bible. Maybe the bible isn't suppose to be taken literally. NOT, I just knew the Bible was suppose to be read literally or it wasn't worth reading a bunch of symbols that meant nothing. As I started reading it literally I started to understand what was going on. Even the parables were explained that Jesus spoke. I have spent over 40 years reading the Bible and still learning things today that were never explained to me by the churches.

I was mad at the churches when I started learning the truth. I blame the churches for not teaching what I know, 2,000 years ago. Today I can't blame the churches, because they aren't suppose to teach us everything. They only feed us baby food and milk. The only thing is they ARE teaching Lies today in church, because they won't teach the Word for what it is. It is our responsibility to ourselves to read His Word and learn it ourselves.

I am the first of many to come along and explain the Bible like never before explained.

(Joel 2:28; Acts 2:17)

" 'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

If my calling is to stay I will stay if not I will go back to working on my website. My website has 30 subjects and each subject has 5 subtopics and each subtopic has unlimited information and answers. Each link, subject, subtopic and answer is it's own webpage making a total webpages of over 900 webpages. Each page is typed by hand and corrected the best I can do. I may have as many as 6 pages/programs open at all times eating up the memory. I may be another year working on all this information because I am doing it all by myself.

You can plainly see why I have enjoyed the break.

quantumcat

Criss Angel and another magician by the name of David Blain are two young men who can do supernatural things. David Blain put his hand through a plate glass window and pulled out a watch out of the display window. I was amazed when I saw him do it on TV. He has also levitated a foot or so a handful of times. No camera tricks.

Criss Angel stepped through a plate glass window without breaking the glass or injuring his body. He Levitated from one building top to another building top with witnesses under him. He walked across the water (on top of the water) in a swimming pool with swimmers in it. At a golf course he Levitated 30 feet or more in the air and floated in the tree tops and back down to the ground.

He can disappear into thin air in front of people on the street and reappear somewhere else.

He does do some tricks but most of what he does is supernatural like walking up the outside of a building then walking back down the side of the building.

Criss Angel takes magic out on the street. He doesn't use the stage like most magicians. I believe all magicians use illusions, but not this Criss Angel and David Blain. Criss Angel trys to reveal some tricks as illusions, but that is so no one really knows which is supernatural and which aren't.

God despises this kind of Magicians because they deal with the supernatural. I have to admit I enjoy watching them perform, so I must be a wilfull sinner. I find this to be an example of having the faith the size of a mustard seed and believing it can be done.

Criss Angel was on the A&E channel on wed nights. I hope he comes back this next season.

quantumcat,

John asked Bessy if she would marry him and she said "ah moo". I know he must be truthful because I seen a ring in her nose this morning on the way to work. They both have been registered at the Co-op so we can select our gifts there for them. In case you do not know what to get for them I understand he wears size 38 Carharts jeans and she is in need of some size 64zzzzz's. John said no woman of his is going around braless.

Unique-Lies,

I really,truly believe (no joke) that if you genuinely love and believe God and want to serve and emulate Christ to the best of your ability,He'll meet you more than half-way.

If you did wake up in Hell,Jesus would be right there with you the whole time.

(But,I bet He'd say "Let's go Home now.")

parkerbrothers

Today the population of the United States is 304,137,270. Out of all these people some 304,137,269 people have been told they will be in the Rapture and miss the Trials and Tribulations.

That is a total of 303,993,269 people over the allotted number that will be in the Rapture.

Most people believe that all the little children are righteous in God's eyes and will go to heaven, so will they be in the Rapture too. They are God's children. I know there has to be more than 144,000 children in the world today.

Don't you think it is time to re-evaluate this being in the Rapture thing? This doesn't even include the righteous Jews who have already died nor the other countries. (Rev 7:4-8 and 14:1-5)

There sure are going to be a lot of disappointed people when Christ returns without them.

Am I and all the Homosexuals and the nonbelievers, the only ones to be slained by the sword that protrudeth from the mouth of the Lord of Lords and King of Kings?

Okay, Let us talk about heaven: (Rev 21:9-27 and 22:1-6)

Today there are 6,669,099,057 people in the world. Probably much more because of man's inability to do counting right. Anyway it is like the sand on the seashore.

Considering how long man has been on this earth (not counting the Apes, Neanderthals and Homosapiens, of course), we should be able to triple that number as the total number of souls who will need to be judged and placed. That would be somthing like 20,007,303,756. That's over 20 Billion people.

God forgives everyone except Blasphemers, and people who have been born again and wilfully sin (which only includes me at this time) and Homosexuals in California who desecrate the Holy word - Marriage. I suppose God can pack that many people into a space the size of the Middle East because it is 1500 miles high.

But wait a minute, I believe He said no sinners will go to heaven. That would include:

James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins.

Leviticus 19: 31 'Do not turn to mediums or spiritists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 18:10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,

11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.

12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.

1 Corinthians 6:9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Don't get me wrong now! All these people can be forgiven of their sins except the Blasphemers.

The only thing is...they can only be forgiven (ONCE) because Jesus died (ONCE FOR EVERYONE), but no one believes that except me, so that doesn't count.

With all those sins listed above, I believe God will have plenty room for everyone who is righteous with room to spare.

Rev 22:10-13

Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near.

11 Let him who does wrong (continue to do wrong); let him who is vile (continue to be vile); let him who does right (continue to do right); and let him who is holy (continue to be holy)."

12" Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.

13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Rev 22:18-19

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.

19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

parkerbrothers

Anyone who reads God's Word then has to use a different book to interpret what he read is not receiving the word of God from the Holy Spirit. He are being told what to believe by ???

The Word of God is Literal. If you love your mother or brother, sister or father, son or daughter more than Jesus you won't be going to heaven.

Jesus said if you can't hate your family enough to turn from them and come to Jesus on your own, you will not go to heaven. You are NOT good enough for Jesus. You are not worthy of Jesus.

It is a one on one event between you and Jesus. Either you can block everyone out and concentrate on Jesus only or you don't go to heaven. There is no definition of love or hate in another book somewhere that can change the meaning of what God had written in his word.

Matthew 10:30-40

30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

32Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

ALSO

Luke 14:26-27

26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

By using other books to interpret what God wrote is changing the word of God into what you want to believe. That will get you in trouble. That is man's interprtation, not the Holy Spirits. If you don't understand something in the bible, stop there until the Holy Spirit explains it to you somehow.

Unique-Lies

Don't forget the Bible we read now has been interpreted by man.Their are other people that, thru studying have a greater understanding of the jewish culture and laws of the day.That give a good understanding of events and situations in the Bible.

Do you mean to say you have never read any other book about Jesus other than the Bible.

Unique-Lies,

Sorry we are having such a hard time understanding one another. I know a lot of times the problem is me but this time I have to say it is you having the problem listening accurately to what is said.

I never said I read another book to understand what the Bible is saying in these past two post we are discussing. The key point I was trying to get across is Jesus never said or used the word Hate or Love one single time of his entire earthly life. The earliest known utterance of the English language was the 3rd century A.D. England itself spoke a Celtic language up until the 5th century A.D. when the Saxons, Angles and Jutes arrived. Within the next few centuries there were four dialects of this English language.

Perhaps the most unique lie of all for you to learn is that 99.9% of the words in the Bible you are reading were never spoken or written originally. Actually with the exception of the words Eloi ,lama and sabachthani it might be 100%. You are reading a Bible that has been translated through many languages to get to where it is today in an English format which is a very, very poor language and even more shallow in depth.

Again, I never said I read another book to understand the Bible although much can be learned from research of material in other books about the time and culture of a people we never knew. I simply was telling you I read and studied this same Bible in other languages. The study of the older translations only aided in proving beyond a shadow of doubt it is the true word of God.

Can the gospel be reasonably understood in an English translation? Very much so. Is the Foundation of the Gospel reasonably presented in the Modern English tranlation? Even more so. Can it be better understood by learning the languages it came through to get to where it is in English? More than ever!

I do give you credit though. You are one of the most knowledgeable people of Revelation I have conversed with in my life. Only imagination can estimate how much more knowledge could have been gained about the rest of the Bible if a little less pride would have made more room.

It is not a bad idea for a teacher to listen every now and then. Pride tends to close the ears and open the mouth.

sand-flea,

Although the different translantions of the English versions you mentioned appear at times to us to change the meaning they really do not. It usually is depth of understanding that changes and it causes us to sensate that the meaning is moving. It does move, however it is a vertical move of percertion and depth instead of a horizontal slide of actual core meaning.

Even going back through language barriers the same perceived move occurs only on a more exagerated plane. It is drastically phenomenal how much feeling and intensity is lost in our English language.

It is a lot like saying the plain meat is there in all the languages. To see the gospel alive in more original languages is like getting the potatoes, onions, celery, carrots, salt, pepper, etc., etc., that were originally cooked with it.

And yes, the meat was cooked with the potatoes and everything else at the same time in the same bowl. That is why even the meat served by itself is still tasty.

parkerbrothers

I haven't forgotten i've been busy,pulled here and there.One question i have.Do you have the Holy Ghost.Are you filled with the Holy Spirit.The evidence of being filled with the Holy Ghost is speaking in tongues.The gifts are given by the spirit of God (Holy Ghost) 1 Cor 12.

I should have more time tomorrow.I usually get home about 5:00 your time.

Let me clarify question #2 - Do you believe that Jesus taught under the law or under grace?

Sharon22

It is by the Grace of God that we have the hunger to look for Jesus. Without God's grace we would never come to Jesus. Jesus came to earth in the flesh and blood and fulfilled the law by his grace, Love fulfills the law. We can not obey the law, it only makes us sin because we know what we are NOT suppose to do so it reminds us of the sins we commit each day. That is why Jesus gave us the two commandments so we don't have the law to struggle with. If we concentrate on the law we are dead to God and alive in the world. If we aren't under the law, but under grace, we are not concerned with breaking laws so we are free to be concentrate on God and so we are dead to the world or absent in the body and alive in God.

So your anwer is... Jesus taught under grace.

Just so you know... I believe Jesus came to earth in the flesh and blood as God's only begotten Son and died on the cross for everyone's sin, even his own first, then was raised by his father in the flesh and blood and ascended into heaven after a short visit with his disciples where He proved to them that he was there in the flesh and blood by eating meat, which a spirit would not been able to do.

I also know we can fall out of His grace.

I have a little different take on grace. Grace did not begin until Jesus died and was resurrected, and until after the Holy Spirit came on pentecost, so therefore he taught under the law. Many of those he spoke to did not understand grace, it had not happened yet. We have 2000+ years of human experience by which we read and understand the Bible(esp. the New Testament). Those that Jesus spoke to only had their own experiences of the previous 2000 or so years, only part of which were under the law. The Jewish people themselves had only been under the law since Moses received the 10 commandments after they left Egypt.

What you say is very true, we in this time, since Jesus was crucified, come to him through this hunger and do so under grace. It is grace that frees us from the law, but instead of it be written on a stone tablet it is written in our hearts. The law was originally given to the Hebrew children so that they would have knowledge of what God expected of them, they had just spent 400 years living in a very pagan society and had not had any "rules" placed before them yet.

I personally don't believe in once saved always saved, but I don't believe once we give ourselves and our hearts to God we fall out of grace. Grace is always there, just as God is always there. I do believe that we can pull away from God, but his grace is always there.

parkerbrothers

Sorry parkerbrothers for upsetting you with my ignorance. I thought we lived in America and we were taught a language we could understand and the bible had to be written so we could understand it enough to at least read it.

I guess the translators who wrote the English translation of our Bible didn't know either the language they were translating from or the English language it was written into. How would anyone today prove whether Jesus spoke the words love or hate when he was on the earth? No one even knows when he was born or died.

Since Jesus never spoke the ords "Love" nor "Hate" (according to you), then our Bible is just one big LIE and can not be trusted as the truth. If you don't believe the words in our Bible are the true meanings of the words spoken, then you have confessed that our Bible is a Lie and is of the devil therefore the Holy Spirit can not reveal the truth to us from our Bible, yet the Holy Spirit can reveal it to you in your other Bibles. I would say you need to read these other bibles that tells you what Jesus did and didn't say 2,000 years ago, because all of a sudden our Bible is false teachings. That means the churches may have been teaching the truth and I have been speaking lies.

I Hope you can explain to all the people reading your posts that you know for a fact that Jesus never said anything about Him or His Father Loving anyone nor hating them because those two words were never spoken in the days that Jesus walked the earth. Christianity is based on God's Love for everyone even the sinners. He may have spoke a jewish word in their place, but it is still the words Love and Hate to us.

I have explained everything I have said and did so from my Bible. Some people don't believe what I say because, I hear now that, our Bible is a LIE according to you!

You say I have misinterpreted the bible but then you say that our Bible has been misinterpreted so that means my misinterpretation would be in harmony with our misinterpreted Bible. Yet you can interpret our misinterpreted Bible through your other books. The Holy Spirit doesn't work that way. It only reveals the truth from God because it is God.

Our English language is pretty precise to me. I don't have any trouble understanding it and when I do I can look it up in the dictionary. As far as mood and depth go, I have read many passages with depth in them. The Holy Spirit will make you feel the love you need when you read His word.

The word hate means to love less

-- Posted by michaelbell on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 3:06 AM

I can see you understand what I am saying. It is pretty well summed up in your statement above.

As can be seen in your definition you have to use another somewhat non precise English word (love) to define the meaning of what we understand as an opposite of it.

I think the 3 most troublesome words we (English) have in the Bible is Love, Hate and Perfect.

Sorry to have swayed away from the topic of the Calofornia vote so far. Hope you did not mind. It is easy to do as you have seen before. I think we ended up on the current topic when I said the verse "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple" used to bother me until I discovered that the word hate as we have come to know it does not accurately convey what Christ was saying in the tongue he spoke in during his earthly life.

Accept my apologies and correct me if I am doing wrong.

parkerbrothers

You don't owe me any explaination. You explained it to me in our misinterpreted English language which I fully understand.

Do you think I do not know that the bible wasn't saying that we have to hate our father, mother, son and daughter like satan himself. Did Jesus not say you can not love me and hate your brother and go to the kindgom of heaven? It is up to each of us to put the depth of our feelings into the love we are giving or receiving. The word hate is the same way. There are different levels of Hate. "I hate someone" may just mean I am temporarily upset with them or I wished they were dead. So the word Hate NOW means to Love Jesus and Love the world just a little less than you love Jesus? or to Love God but love the Calif Homosexuals just a little less than you Love God? God loves the sinners but loves satan and the abomination of desolation just a little less than the sinners?

I wonder if God really meant to FLOOD the earth and MURDER all FLESH since He only Loved the sinners just a little less than He Loved Noah and his family? Nah! I think maybe He hated all those sinners just like you Love all those calif. Homosexuals a little less than all the Flesh God destroyed.

What about this new meaning of Love? What does it really mean now, just alittle more than hate? You didn't expand on the word Love.

I am sorry, I read the bible as it is printed because timothy tells me I can trust what my bible tells me without having to know the exact hebrew words Jesus spoke.

To know exactly what words Jesus spoke 2,000 year ago just isn't going to happen for me. I accepted Jesus who is in my Bible and I have to stay with him and what the KJV tells me about him.

I chose to stay with the King James Bible because it is the hardest to understand but the only one that the Holy Spirit will reveal to me. He has done a splended job of doing just that so I will continue with it.

You are saying that my Bible doesn't mean what it says, so you are saying it is a lie.

You only half way believe what I say about sleeping and life after death and revelation because you don't understand revelation. The rest of the bible I have miss interpreted you say. That should tell everyone not to believe what I told them about revelation also.

My word speaks for itself. Either you believe it or you don't. I am not here to make anyone believe what I say. The Holy Spirit will let you believe what he thinks you are ready to believe.

I want to thank everyone for their help in making me finally see the truth. Hebrews chapter 6 and 10 was written after Christ died for our sins, so it would be a law which doesn't apply to a born again christian because we are under grace and not the law. These verses can only be the law because they describe the punishment for doing the crime.

This is what I will believe from now on until the Holy Spirit tells me otherwise.

Unique-Lies---parkerbrothers

It's time to shake hands.This kind of stuff is why we have so many denominations.We will not all agree on everything, so let's agree to disagree.Jesus bought ALL of us with HIS blood, we are one body, let's stay that way and show a good spirit to those reading this blog.

Unique-Lies,

I actually apologize mainly to sand-flea if he felt we were arguing and needed to shake hands. I actually like you and what you bring to the table unique-lies. I actually feel a lot like greasemonkey said on another blog on here when he said that a lot of good comes out of these blogs and he learns something from everyone. Even the non-believers teach me something I can learn everyday and I enjoy their challenging input along with the believers such as yourself and sand-flea just to mention a few. I have actually been happy and inspired today through your continued seeking of the truth that in turn motivates mine. If you felt otherwise then my aplogies to you Mr. Unique.

Unique-Lies,

Now that we have kissed and made up let us get back to where we were at. I will post seven individual posts on the various areas you brought to my attention in a few minutes. It has been an unusally busy day today so let me get at it.

To prove my answer to you I sent you to Matthew 7:21-23. These verses "ARE" Jesus talking to the Multitude on a mountain, not some apostle telling a story.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 2:16 PM

I never said it was some apostle telling a story. I said the entire chapter had several sayings of Jesus in it.

But you questioned verses 21 and 22 saying that the people were only saying and making claim to the fact that they did them, but in reality they didn't do these things. (again this didn't happen, Jesus was using this to teach the multitude that many who do miracles in his name will not go to heaven)

Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 2:16 PM

Two people can see different lessons in the same verses. I have always been able to see more than one lesson in those verses.

I do question how you say that Jesus said many who DO miracles in his name will not go to heaven. I never gathered that when I read those verses we are talking about. Perhaps I missed something.

Let's look at what he said and see if He does say that and I did miss something. Here goes.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

He is telling us that we will know them by their fruits. I think it is fair to assume that you agree that if we should "Know Them" by their fruits he will most difinitely "KNOW THEM" by their fruits.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

In this verse I clearly see Him seperating the "sayers" from the "doers". I think it is again safe to assume that you agree that if you call someone Lord you should be doing their will. In the first part of the verse he is talking about the ones that "say" they have been doing his will and calling Him Lord. The last part of the verse he talks about the ones that are "doers" of His will.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Again here I see the word "say" talking to me. It speaks loudly. Here we have them standing there "SAYING" they have been fruitful. Look at the many fruitful things they are "SAYING" they have beared. Nothing said it this verse about any "DOERS", only "SAYERS". You naturally have to expect Him to address this in the next verse. Will He admit they have done these works and say "Yes, I know you did but..." or will he say "I never saw you do these things and ..."??? what will He say to these that are "Saying" or telling Him what their fruits have been.

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

He never "Knew" them. In the verse preceeding these three verses He tells us we will "know" them by their fruits.

They "Told" Him what there fruits were. He did not "SEE" them. If they would have been fruitful He would have "known" them by their fruits.

I fail to see where you can come to the observation that "Jesus was using this to teach the multitude that many who do miracles in his name will not go to heaven"??? He draws me to look at the difference between sayers and doers. Jesus never once said they had "done" anything. He said they were "saying" they had.

Now I want you to stop and look at what you are saying.

Jesus is telling the Multitude that when He returns to judge the people, many will come before him and tell Him that they have done many miracles in his name. When you come face to face with Jesus are you going to tell him a little white lie thinking He will believe it? I think not. So these people who are telling Jesus that they performed these miracles, they won't be lying about it. They will have done these Miracles.

You are saying that the verses are saying something else than what they are saying, changing the word of God to mean what you want it to, or saying the Bible is lying about these workers of iniquity, because they didn't do what Jesus is saying they have done.

Verse 24 is the start of another saying which doesn't go with the above verses but all the saying are connected in that not everyone who thinks they done Gods will, wil be going to heaven.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, May 22, 2008, at 2:16 PM

Unique-Lies,

When that day comes I believe everyone will confess Him as Lord. Everyone will! Yes, I think there will be many that will even try to stand before Him and lie. Many will! I do not believe this kind of liar will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I believe they are the ones that Paul was more specifically talking about when he proclaimed "Do not be deceived..."

I believe there will be many Pharisees and scribes from His time on Earth standing before Him calling Him Lord and arguing their case of good works before Him. I think some will even still try to claim Abraham as their Father.

I believe you will see many modern day Pharisees and scribes standing before Him calling Him Lord and telling of all they have done. They will tell Him of how they missed fewer Sundays and Wednesday nights than anyone else they know. How they always even went to Church on vacation. How they read their Bibles and gathered great knowledge of Him. How they visited the sick. How they laid hands and annointed with oil. How they prayed before every meal, even in the restraunts. How they have been baptized. How they took of the cup and bread every week instead of monthly or quarterly. How they tithed. How they started the church and how many had been baptized inside of their church.

I actually think that a little of everything will be said on that day by everyone that are now willing to call Him Lord on His day. We just think we have heard it all.

The last thing I want to say on this post here is that I have actually been consumed in recent months on the study of Lord versus Savior versus Lord Savior which ties into this and makes me wonder if there is indeed a reason behind everything, even the topics that come forward on here. Over the years and especially in these recent months I have noticed that in every instance that someone recognized Him as either Savior or Healer only, He never turned His back on them as He did these "workers" who recognized Him as Lord only. Whether it be the contrast of the attitudes of the two praying in the Temple or even the two thieves on their own crosses there was always compassion when someone realized they were sinners or sick and needed saving or healing and recognized Him as the Savior and Healer.

Uuique-Lies---parkerbrothers

I wrote that with a smile on my face. I know how you guys go at each other.I must admitt, you have me a bit confused.Are they false prophets? I have been busy and couldn't devote a lot of time to study this in detail.

I would have posted sooner,but my internet was down.

quantumcat,

That is a great observation that I am thinking about as I type this now. My first thought and question is under that scenerio are not they portraying a co-savior relationship. Under that assumption the equation would be:

faith + works = salvation (which I think is wrong)

instead of

faith = salvation -> works (which I think is right)

sand-flea,

I am glad you wrote in with a smile. You know that unique and I recognize the Great Foundation. I just like to discuss things that bring out the depth and width and strength of this Foundation.

I do not know if these men were false prophets as you or I might define that term. I do however believe that these men did not recognize the Foundation they were standing before. I see them telling Him how many block they had laid in their own foundation.

Perhaps they should have been carpenters instead of block masons and built upon the Foundation instead of building a new foundation. The Foundation they were standing in front of was sufficient to hold their work.

I understood,parkerbrothers.

I've thought being saved was somewhat like being pregnant.

Some people look as if they are but aren't.

Some don't show that they are but they have that new life within them anyway.

We who look on the outside may not be able to determine who is going to deliver when the time comes and who isn't but anyone who is able to look inside those people won't be confused.

If we're going to claim being part of God's orchard,let's hope that the world can say "Look at that sap!" and mean that we have the juice inside of us to stay alive and be productive.

If we are nothing more than dry sticks,then pretty foliage won't matter.

We'll be as useless for providing nourishment as a plastic plant.

God can transform a stick as easily now as in the days of Moses but the power comes from God-not the piece of wood.

If we are alive and growing,then we need to remember why we were planted in the first place.

We need to show fruit at least as easily as a cane might wriggle on the ground.

One is a miracle and one is fulfilling our true nature.

The least that could be expected of us is that we let God take from us what we were created to produce.

parkerbrothers, you have no trouble thinking you and I are fruit trees and will produce our fruit for everyone to know what we are made of. (I too believe this)

But you can not believe that the many people who say they did miracles actually did them in this saying that Jesus made up to prove several points to us.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, May 23, 2008, at 11:39 AM

Unique-Lies,

You are right about this saying that Jesus taught was made up to prove several points. That is what I have been saying. Even though I only mentioned two points that I seen made does not mean I think there are only two.

Anyway, I consider two to be related to several. At least by marriage.

I am also NOT saying that I can not believe they did the miracles. I am more simply saying that the Holy Spirit taught me a Godly lesson out of the way He chose to reveal it to me. I personally think the Spirit can teach different people things they need to know with different scriptures. We can all relate to some things in different ways.

He may confirm to you that you have to do both miracles and the will of God from this saying.

With me He might teach that I am saved by Faith only and that the works are an after occurrence that is not required of me but will be naturally produced in me out of Love for HIM (and him only without me being a co-savior) saving me the Sinner.

He might take these scriptures and show me that I am now finally free to serve out of Love instead of debt owed.

quantumcat,

Rest assured. Every tree that is rooted in Garden of Christ can not help but produce fruit.

sand-flea,

Yes, I have had those times and I try to prevent them from happening by attempting to adhere to that voice.

You said.... "faith without works is useless."

I know where you are coming from but I also think and lean toward "works without faith" are useless.

I think a born again Christian will have both. However, I think it is only when you truly realize that it is the shed blood of Christ that covers you and it was all done for you and that you do not have to have works that the type of fruits that are pleasing to God will spring forth out of us "naturally."

Much like when the extra light from the spring and summer along with the warmth of it hits the trees they then bring forth fruits in season.

When the light and warmth of Christ falls on us we can not help but produce fruit.

Another thing that I wish people understood is that when you allow yourself to admit and grasp the wrath of God toward sin and realize how Christ is appeasing this wrath for us and being our mediator you then can see more of the light and feel more of the warmth of Him and you soon see fruit naturally occuring more abundantly upon you through Him.

The light and warmth from Him goes through our trunks and reaches down into the soil of Christ we are planted it and draws forth nutrients needed for the tree to produce fruit upon its branches.

We are actually mere conduits (trunks)through which HE performs the works(fruit). They are His works. Not ours.

That is why I have always said you can not fully grasp the width of the Love and coverage of Christ until you understand the depth and Hell of the wrath of God toward sin.

sand-flea,

The reason he does not see your foul ups is because I gave Him a life time of them to look at first.

You do not need nothing to show Him when you see Him except a thankful attitude for what He has done. He is the Savior and we are the Saved Sinner.

The best I have to show Him multiplied times a million is irrelevant in light of the scar prints in His hand He has for me to see.

LMFAO. Stupid.

-- Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Sat, May 17, 2008, at 12:00 AM

I would love to know what church you go to jesuslovesevery1, so that I do not go there. You are so judgemental to people in a lot of your blogs. Correct me if I am wrong, but I did not think it was our place to judge.