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So Goes California
Posted Thursday, May 15, 2008, at 4:14 PM<< Previous | Read comments | Respond | Email link | Next >>
I always heard that California was always the pattern in which the rest of the states followed suit , well lets hope that in this instance that is not the case.
I was trying to eat lunch at work and the news story broke and I had to leave the break room.
I will be praying for a reversal of the vote.
Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
Michael,
Why can you not just leave people alone?
I have several friends who are gay and I love each and everyone of them.Their life style is theirs just like mine is mine and yours is yours.I'm sure there are things that you do in your life that other people find disgusting and I'm sure the same is for me too.
Why does it bother you so if 2 women or 2 men want to get married and share a life with one another, and don't say its because your worried about their souls.
I believe same sex couples should have the same legal rights as you and I do.So if being married does that for them I'm all for it reguardless if its done by a minister a judge a justice of the peace or even someone who signed up on the internet.
Why not try writing about something that really needs to be addressed, like why you have such negitive feels for people who are gay.
ho·mo·pho·bia
Pronunciation: \ˌhô-mə-ˈfô-bç-ə\
Function: noun
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals
redcatoo
Why should homosexuals get special treatment because of A sexual addiction.God said he would put his laws in our hearts.To know right from wrong.they have a desire for sin.That doesn't come from God.If it doesn't come from God then It must come from satan.It's A desire that can be over come If they want to.God didn'n make them that way.The devil did!They know it's wrong; deep inside.They are destroying the families teaching kids It's ok to be that way,It's not and God don't like It.He never once, In the Bible said Its ok.
I don't hate homosexuals I feel sorrow for them.They are so misguided and blind to the truth.They are living In misery and don't know how to change.I'm sure they would argue that fact.It's not natural and they know It
michaelbell,
There you go again concerning yourself with worldly problems.
Who are you going to go after when you force all the Homosexuals back into their closets? You do know that is all you can do. They are still going to be Homosexual. Why aren't you going after the dirty cops or the high up officials who are smugling drugs into our country so they can arrest someone with a little bag of pot and send them up for life to make the privately owned civilian prisons rich. Then you will have to go after the prostitutes that nobody seems to be able to stop or the average guy or gal who is fornicating with the neighbor or office worker. Let's not forget about the liars and the theives. There just isn't a stopping point.
Take you crusaders cape off and relax. That is what the Calif state courts' job is. If the Homosexuals lose and have more money they can take it to the Calif Supreme Court and if they lose and still have money left they can take it to the U.S. Supreme Court.
We have Laws in our country that are written just like the King James Bible. They are almost parables in themselves. The laws say one thing, but can mean something else.
For example; We the people (people who are born in this country) are the Sovereignty.
In the Constitution of the state of Tennessee:
ARTICLE I.
Section 1. That "all power is inherent in the people", and all free governments
are founded on their authority, and instituted for their peace, safety, and happiness;
for the advancement of those ends they have at all times, an unalienable
and indefeasible right to alter, reform, or abolish the government in such manner
as they may think proper.
-> As a part of the Sovereignty of the state, we, the people, are exempt from the law because we are the Author and source of the law (Yick Wo vs Hopkins and Woo Lee vs Hopkins 118 U.S. 356).
--> Therefore any law that is written must be in harmony with the U.S. Constitution or it is Null and Void (Volume 16, American Jurisprudence, 177) in a case concerning a Sovereign Citizen, if he knows his Constitutional rights.
---> If you are a U.S. citizen who owes his/her citizenship to the 14th amendment you must obey the law. Congress has a right to make all needful laws and regulations governing these persons when delegating for the citizen of the U.S. Central Government.
So you see how complicated even our laws can get? If the Homosexuals are people of the state of Calif, they can have the case thrown out for lack of "in personum jurisdiction". If the court doesn't dismiss the case they can take it to a higher court.
But there is one catch!
"Rights MUST be CLAIMED IN PERSON. They may not be claimed by an Attorney or Solicitor. They are valid ONLY when insisted upon by a Belligerent Claimant in Person." (U.S. v Johnson )
The supreme court must rule in favor of the constitution so it all depends on which class of citizens they are.
If they are 14th amendment citizens they are bound by the courts and the laws. It is up to the courts to decide their fate.
Now -- doesn't God tell you that in the last days He is going to harden the hearts of the sinners so they will NOT REPENT? That's what my Bible says. They will have no choice unless God changes their hearts and sends them to someone to save them. We, You and I, don't have a say in the matter. It is up to God. We can only tell it like it is and let them decide the path they want to take.
Let God deal with the Homosexuals who want to be Homosexuals and you deal with the people who come to you in your congregation with their problems. Teach them what is right and let them come to you with their questions. Nothing wrong with speaking out against Homesexuality, but the way things are going today you may lose your congregation or non-profit status.
Sand-flea . . gay people dont want "special" treatment. They want equal treatment . . . they want to be able to marry just like everyone else. How is that special treatment?
Also, anyone that believes that gay people are destroying families or destroying the institution of marriage are really stupid and ignorant of reality. People getting a divorce is what is destroying families . . . and that is done by heterosexuals.
Unique-Lies,
You do have to keep in mind that even Paul was harping on this stuff almost 2000 years ago. Even though Paul knew quite well of God's handling of Sodom and Gamorrah he was still compelled to warn people to not be deceived and was not content to just let God take care of it. He felt a duty to warn before it was God's time to destroy again.
However, I also see your point that you had made in a similar earlier post weeks ago as to how we are only slowing down what is evident to happen and we should just let it happen. The theory of the sooner evil comes the sooner God returns. But even considering that I still see where Michael comes from when he makes the comments as he does and tend to agree with his conception of how to handle this type news when we hear it.
I believe if we as Christians do not express the truth about such things as homosexuality and condemn it openly we are actually showing our approval of it to some young set of eyes quitely watching and learning.
Let's face it. You are either for it or you are against it. There is no middle ground to be found. If you are not against it you are for it. Do not let your very self be deceived as to think otherwise.
jaxspike,
It does not matter what someone wants when it comes to the issue of being right or wrong, good or evil, light or dark.
The cocaine addict wants another snort just like the homosexual wants another mount.
The fact that the want or lust or desire is there does not make it right in the sight of God.
Eve craved to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. She wanted equal access to what she was told was wrong.
She was warned of a wrong just as you have been warned of the wrong of homosexuality.
There is only one happiness in life..to love and be loved..what people do with their life and who they love..who they marry..or spend the rest of their life with should be no one elses business..We should not judge anyone ...We do not have the right to judge anyone...like some of us like slim people or fat people or red headed people or people with no hair or tall people or short people...So what..it is their life not your's....If you do not like to hear about it or see it...then turn the T.V. off or walk away...Just keep your trap shut....it is not nice to talk about people..They are not hurting you..They just love different people than you do...SO WHAT...I have meet several gay people in my life..i must say they have always been smart...with good job's..and kind....There are too many other things that are wrong in this world to worry about than to worry about who wants to marry who or the same sex loving each other....You really need to get a LIFE...You know one day God may test you and you may need help and God may send a gay person to help you...Would you except his help or turn him away????
Another issue that could be brought out of this:
Why are there homosexuals asking to be married?
If civil arrangements were enough (not all secular partnerships offer the same privileges and protections) then why wouldn't tweaking them into a fair and uniform version suffice?
Is it just that they want what they've been told they can't have?
Perhaps,they perceive what certain Catholics did when the only "legal" marriages were Protestant or what slaves and prisoners of war noticed when they were denied "official" marriage.
A covenant relationship is more than a merging of bodies or households.
It is more than a secular contract.
It is not something a worldly government can impose or deny.
People of all types who want *marriage* expect it to be more than "shacking up" or being domestic partners.
A watered-down substitute for marriage isn't enough.
They want the genuine article-even if it lacks government recognition.
Some belief systems have offered gays religious weddings within their tradition.
Our government ignores these rather as it does those for heterosexuals only.
It addresses only those unions that are dealt within secular law.
Whether Man decides it's o.k. to call polyamory,pedophilia and bestiality acceptable or whether it chooses to forbid a man from marrying his former mother-in-law ,a person of a different race or someone related to a suicide is the world's business.
We call what the world offers marriage but,in a sense,all it can offer is a civil contract.
Marriages are created by the partners and God.
That's why some traditions (such as the Quakers) don't see weddings as making people married.
They see them as public acknowledgement of unions the Lord has established.
The homosexuals pursuing this right are demanding something too many of our straight people have abandoned.
They are insisting on a permanent,legal committment that goes beyond being "friends with privileges".
They want to be there for one another in sickness and in health,in prosperity and poverty,forsaking all others and loving and honoring one another for the rest of their lives.
They want to make families-not just whoopee.
If being promiscuous hasn't been enough for gays (who have had the excuse that they CAN'T marry),why should ANYone settle for less than a spiritual committment they can declare publically?
Some have suggested that gays and straights use the same secular,legal contract for wordly recognition and follow their own consciences concerning any separate,religious rites.
(Again,the government would allow freedom of belief but would limit the practice of those beliefs to what fits it rules.)
Some have attempted to make the "sanctity of marriage" about whether a human institution can permit behavior some specific religions find abhorrent.
Perhaps,we need to ask what value alleged "perverts" find in marriage that the "normal" folk who avoid spiritual intimacy and fidelity don't?
rebelrose,
What does God think of homosexuality?
jaxspike,
What does God think of homosexuality?
redcat00,
What does God think of homosexuality?
quantumcat,
For the sake of nothing but a good laugh and no harm meant at all I am going to take your question and pretend it was a joke I have to answer.
Question:
"Why are there homosexuals asking to be married?"
Answer: Because they are nuttier than a fruitcake.
I still cant understand why we should be worried about giving rights to perverts. They arent hurting anyone, accept that AIDs and other STDs spread through that particular group faster than any other. The farmer sweet talking his sheep isnt hurting anyone either, but she could use some health insurance and they are in love.(That begs another question. If I made lamb chops out of her, would that be a hate crime?) I heard a comedian sing a song one time about gettin married to his pickup truck, well why cant he. He apparently loves and adores his loyal truck. They also arent hurting anyone, who am I to discriminate. (Again, car wreck-hate crime?)
The reason it upsets alot of us is because its wrong, its sick, and we have to stop somewhere. We cant just allow anybody to do whatever they want, just because they might be born with those urges. I was born with an urge to rob the bank, I cant help it I was born into sin(God told me so, its in the Bible), and I need the money. So is that ok.
BTW. According to the definition, I guess I should be signing up for Homophobes Anonymous.
If you suspect your aversions are irrational,take that up with the Author of all reason.
He'll help you see people and issues through His eyes and it won't be about what's popular or politically correct or anything but what is sane and just and loving.
You won't see anyone as other than a creation of an infinite,omniscient God in an all too fallible world.
It isn't our job to give anyone rights.
Those come from the Almighty.
Our job is to protect the rights,live up to the accompanying responsibilities and recognize that we all want privileges extended to suit our will more than God's.
As believers,we need to pray for clear guidance and lead others into righteousness even as God leads us.
As people who live in this country,we need to safeguard the rights of all other people and make sure our country creates and enacts its laws with wisdom and integrity and not in response to P.A.C.s or opinion polls or anything other than duty and good sense.
Ask yourself:"If I am dealing with a person *as an individual*,do I err on the side of condemning what they might do-or loving them for who they are?"
The people who are "different" might stop craving special privileges if they could feel secure in having fundamental rights and respect and be judged no worse and no better than the rest of the Lord's "works-in-progress."
To Marvin:
LOL!
You realize I've assumed marriage was a good thing (even if they don't have it in Heaven).
God told me it would be like Christ's relationship with His Church.
Lewis Grizzard said something about it making more sense to find someone you can't stand and buy them a house.
Back in the day,people decided folks didn't need a piece of paper to love.
Next,they found out you could hate without paper,too.
Now,people who got by without the documents are fighting to get them.
If they haven't been listening to God,they sure ain't been listening to Grizzard.
parkerbrothers
Paul was teaching the people back then because they were part of his followers that he taught. That is what you do. Teach the people what is right from wrong. If they don't live by God's rules you have a right to send them away or not come to them. It is better to work with them like the prodical son than to feed them to the wolves.
If they accept Jesus in the last hour, They are forgiven of their sins but you... well I'm not sure if God will forgive you for turning one of God's children away by judging them.
>>Let's face it. You are either for it or you are against it. There is no middle ground to be found. If you are not against it you are for it. Do not let your very self be deceived as to think otherwise.
--> Jesus said you are either for me or against me, not for it or against it. I am against Homosexuals but I don't judge them or why they are how they are. They are human with human emotions just like everyone else. Until we can read the minds and hearts of other people like Jesus can, we are not to judge them. All we are allowed to do as christians is to forgive them if they sin against us, pray for them and love them as we love ourselves.
Matthew 5:20-22
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 5:43-48
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Michael
No where in the Bible have I ever seen marriage described between two men, or two women. I think sand-flea is right. We all have things to overcome ,and the burden is on you to tell us. I think you come in under 1 Peter 3:16-18, Philippians 2:3-4, and Proverbs 13:20- 18;24 . Keep telling us where we are missing the boat. Keep that prayer line going that shows more love than hate in God's book.
Parkerbrothers . . . I am appalled and disgusted with your comments about homosexuals and your insinuation that they are only together to "mount" each other. That comment shows your lack of intelligence and ignorant mentality. I guess heterosexuals are only together so they can "mount" each other too. There are gay couple of hardly every have sex and are together because they truly love each other . . . they are two consenting adults so you can compare it to pedophilia or bestiality or any other sick sexual deviant behavior.
You are right . . . you will have your opinion and I will have mine but it just saddens me that we have people like you in the world. You are no different than the people who use to quote Bible versus to justify slavery and to argue against inter-racial marriages. I guess there really is no cure for ignorance.
Unique-Lies,
quantumcat,
You are right about the paper thing. I myself feel that in my life I have had the piece of paper and not been truly married and later in life felt I was truly married without the piece of paper.
Where and when does marriage occur in God's eye?
Is it when the preacher says "I now pronounce you man and wife?"
Is it the moment the last of the two say "I do"?
Could it be the when the man proposes and the woman accepts?
Maybe it happens when you pay for the marriage licence and the check clears the bank?
Could it be made somewhere in the hearts before or even after the wedding ceremony?
The point I am trying to make is I believe that there are two different recognized marriages occurring at two different times every time a couple do marry as we like to use the word. At some precise given point the law of the land bound the two together. At another precise point of time God joins us together. I do not think these two times neccessarily coincide together.
I feel much the same way about divorce. The time table of the law of the land and of God may not neccessarily coincide.
All this brings me to an even more important question along the same line. At what time does salvation occur. For anything to become it has to have a precise moment of time in which before it was not and after it was?
(correction)
There are gay couple of hardly every have sex = There are gay couples who hardly ever have sex
A lot of the people who are "fighting to get a piece of paper" have been to gether for years just like most people have been. Their main issue with wanting the PIECE of PAPER is to be able to have the same rights as most married couples such as being covered under your mates medical insurance,being able to make medical decissions for your mate,legally you have to be next of kin,(aka married, or blood relitive.)To be able to recive your mates retirement,legal property, and even death benifits from social security, when your partner dies.Thats what the main issue is about, not to rub being gay in someone face.What if you were not married to your partner man or woman and say you were the one who stayed home while they went out to work or you have a part time job and did not earn the most money but you took care of the home.Lets say you have been together for 10 to 20 years, now lets say your partner dies, the one who was the real bread winner. The one who has everything in their name plus medical insurance.
You get nothing even though you have worked just as hard as to keep the home going.Everything goes to your mates blood reletives and you are put out in the cold and have to start over from 0.All of my gay frinds have been in the same relationship for 15 + years.They are not out to try to get you to join their gay club.... They just want to be able to live and not be judged just like we all do.
greasemonkey...... you wrote"They arent hurting anyone, accept that AIDs and other STDs spread through that particular group faster than any other." WRONG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
One in four adults has a STD. Every year there are 12 million new cases.
So then you are saying that one out of four people who are bloging here now is gay.Just to let you know I'm female and I love men so I guess that takes me off of the gay list.
parkerbrothers
I feel like no church should be forced to marry two men because it goes against the Bible. But if one does or someone else in authority does then let them get married.
Paul told us that a man should not marriy a woman unless he really felt like he needed a woman. A man should stau focused on God at all times, but if he was going to have women on his mind all the time then he should marry a woman so his thoughts could return to God.
In the same turn how can a man concentrate on God if he loves another man and can't become as one with her? His sin is his punishment not ours. That is his cross he has to carry thru life.
Eventually He may see the light and return to God if he has the time to devote to God. God will put the desire for him in the hearts of all He wants to come to Him. Some people God may never call and even wax their heart cold.
ABOVE ALL ELSE God demands Love if you are to enter the Kingdom of heaven. Works without love is dead. If you hate another man, you are not of Jesus.
>> Common Law are not cheap words thrown out there in our eyes. It is the Law of The Land in this country. We have common law marriages all the time. People call it shacking up, but it is a legal marriage between two people and God. It is even more Holy than our traditional marriage because the Government is a cosigner in our marriages giving Big Brother the right to interfer in your marriages and take our children away and demand that we divorce or not and who pays who in the end.
We get a license so the Government can step into our married life and control our marriage if it so desires to.
The states have to recognize common law marriages because that is the law of the land. Hell, they approve of common law marriages because they demand that you get a legal divorce to seperate, making them a third member of your marriage when you agree.
Your marriage is between you, your spouse and God and if you get a legal license, between the state also. The state gov, like the federal gov screws up everything it gets it's hands in.
If a man wants to marry another man and wants the state involved in their marriage, by acknowledging their marriage, they have to abide by what the state says. It is just that simple.
A pagan is a pagan is a pagan and there is nothing you can do except pray for them and love them and let God deal with their hearts.
My life keeps me pretty busy minding my own business without worrying about the homosexuals coming to God.
Homosexuals, like drugs... all you have to do is say no! As far as the children go, they are going to see it on the 5 o'clock news if it is banned everywhere else.
parkerbrothers....I do not know...But when I get there to see him I will ask him... I will be sure to send you a sign and let you know...But if you get there before me ..you can ask him yourself...
Genesis 2, 20-24
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
God made a woman for Adam not a man.
Man should cleave to his wife not his husband.
If you believe in the Bible you cannot forget these truths. When you say live and let live, they are not hurting anyone; then you are saying you do not believe in the Bible and what God has to say about marriage (One Flesh). We rise up and speak against homosexuality because we live in the same country with it. Sodom and Gomorrah was completely destroyed because of immorality and homosexuality. I would like for that not to happen to the country I'm living in.
TO EVERYONE THAT IS WRITTING ABOUT THIS AND USING THEIR TIME ON THIS...STOP!!!!!!!!! GO TO STEVE MILLS BLOG NOW AND LOOK AT ALL THE VIDEO'S OF HIS NEPHEW....GOD DOES NOT HAVE TIME TO WASTE ON SUCH A SMALL PROBLEM AS THIS.....HE HAS ALOT MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO...THIS IS ONLY A PROBLEM TO ALL OF YOU THAT DO NOT LIKE PEOPLE THAT ARE DIFFERENT THAN YOU....JUST STOP.......
I agree with you. Nothing will be solved and besides they should preach to the Homosexuals not everyone on here.
How about all the people of any type getting together and praying for those who could use the support?
Steve's family,rebelrose,the Melsons...
That's a start.
I think there have been quite a few other people even within these blogs who could use our words and deeds to help them through some rough spots.
The families touched by tragedy and hardship need evidence of our love more than any person out of touch with God needs our disdain.
Think China-not San Francisco.
Think Burma-not Boston.
Cast out autism and cancer before starting in on consensual relations between a sheep and a turkey.
That's not saying we have to ignore the "Thou shalt nots."
We just need to concentrate more on what God WOULD approve of our doing.
Parkerbrothers . . . I am appalled and disgusted with your comments about homosexuals and your insinuation that they are only together to "mount" each other. That comment shows your lack of intelligence and ignorant mentality. I guess heterosexuals are only together so they can "mount" each other too. There are gay couple of hardly every have sex and are together because they truly love each other . . . they are two consenting adults so you can compare it to pedophilia or bestiality or any other sick sexual deviant behavior.
Posted by jaxspike on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 8:10 AM
Jaxspike,
I agree with your comment that you can compare it to pedophilia or bestiality or any other sick sexual deviant behavior.
You failed to answer a simple question? I know how you feel about it but my question was "what does God think about it?". Or was that your answer to the question when you said "they are two consenting adults so you can compare it to pedophilia or bestiality or any other sick sexual deviant behavior" which would actually be a somewhat correct answer.
I agree with you. Nothing will be solved and besides they should preach to the Homosexuals not everyone on here.
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 12:30 PM
Unique-Lies,
Has it ever dawned on you that there might just be a few on here?
quantumcat,
Sorry about the bad attempt at a joke last night. It dawned on me after I said it that it was not that funny without the actual pictures that came with it. I guess I should also realize that there are already too many unemployed comedians for me to be plugging at it. I think I will just pick up trash around the houses for a little while.
Unique-Lies,
What Michael started on this topic on here will be no different than what will be preached on Sunday morning in thousands of Churches. I am curious as to how many will stand up in Church and make a rebuttal such as yours to Michael and tell the preacher to take off his cape.
I think you also err when you say homosexuality is a worldly problem. It is primarily a spiritual sin.
I understood your earlier comment on how Paul was addressing his followers but bear in mind that if someone is on here commenting they are following Michaels blog or topic if you prefer to call it that. Michael started this topic with one of which is preached on rather regularly. I also recall how Paul confronted Peter on a minor issue when he stopped eating among the Gentiles when the Jews were present. How much more would he have said if Peter had quit assembling with the People who followed God's wants and started eating with a group who choose their own desires (homosexuality) over God's wants for only a man and woman?
parkerbrothers....I do not know...But when I get there to see him I will ask him... I will be sure to send you a sign and let you know...But if you get there before me ..you can ask him yourself...
-- Posted by rebelrose on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 10:53 AM
Rebelrose,
If you have to wait until you see Him to ask Him you will not know Him when you see Him.
parkerbrothers
> Has it ever dawned on you that there might just be a few on here?
Yes it has. That is why I said they should address the homosexuals and not everyone on here. In our country we have certain unalienable rights and we can't go around taking those rights away from people. You didn't like it when Michael said the Islams were taking away the christians rights did you? Now you want to take away their rights, if in fact they have any right to marry. We don't even know yet what the courts will say.
Parkerbrothers all I can say is: I can not cast the first stone!
> What Michael started on this topic on here will be no different than what will be preached on Sunday morning in thousands of Churches. I am curious as to how many will stand up in Church and make a rebuttal such as yours to Michael and tell the preacher to take off his cape.
First, I don't think this Blog is a church service. It is a way to build on what we have learned over the years, if we get off the sins of a handful and concentrate on Gods will. How many Homosexuals did you convert with all this arguing? It has to be done in a civil pleasant manner not by a tongue lashing mob.
Jesus said the laws don't keep you from sinning, the laws only make you aware of all the sins you have committied, keeping your mind on the fact that you aren't as clean as you hoped you would be. Jesus fulfilled the law so we wouldn't have to dwell on our sins and could move on to worshipping God and doing His will. Doing his will is converting as many as you can to God, but crucifying sinners isn't the way to do it. I believe it is forgiving them and letting them choose when they are ready to comme to the Lord just like any other sinner.
I was talking frankly to Michael as a fellow bloger to loosen up and let God send them as He sees fit and when He knows they are ready to be converted, if they are even going to convert. Not everyone will be going into the Kingdom of Heaven, just in case you haven't heard.
I am not beneath telling a preacher to his face what I think about his sermon. I had a preahcer come up to me and start talking about the bible to me in the Hospital after I had open heart surgery. I politely told him to go back to his office and reread his bible then come back. I even told him what verses to read. Never saw the man again.
> I think you also err when you say homosexuality is a worldly problem. It is primarily a spiritual sin.
A spiritual sin is between God and the sinner. God MUST FIRST change his or her heart before they can even come to God. Remember Jesus saying, "You did not choose me, I chose you and ordained you." I agree that it is a sin. I have read the bible. But because there is nothing you can do about it until further notice from God, it becomes a problem that sifts into the world because they are of the world.
And lest you forget, there are other sinners in the world that need saving also, but not until God sends them to you. Last week you wanted to go out and lay hands on everyone and fill them with the Holy spirit and this week you are ready to cast them in Hell because they want something you can't forgive them of.
> Michael started this topic with one of which is preached on rather regularly.
Yes Micael started the Blog to get input. I think he got more than he bargined for. We all kept it on his topic so what is your question. My response to take off his cape was to let him know he needs to loosen up as stated before. The anti-christ is the one who will have all the answers not us. You say it is preached rather regularly. Doesn't that prove to you that there is no correct answer.
> I also recall how Paul confronted Peter on a minor issue when he stopped eating among the Gentiles when the Jews were present. Back then the apostles had just received word from the Holy Spirit that they could preach to the Gentiles because the Jews didn't want to learn any more. Also The received the word that they could eat meat on fridays instead of just fish and it didn't make any difference if a man was circumcised or not. These were very strict jewish laws until this time so they had to be careful how they handled these things.
They were Holy men so they couldn't do anything that would make them look like they weren't of God. They weren't allowed to eat meat on fridays (IF) they were eating at smeone's house who believed it was a sin to eat meat on fridays. It would make them look like they were an unholy man.
They taught the Jews first but when they refused the word of God they were allowed to teach the word of God to the Gentiles. This made the Jews very jealous and so they had to be very careful about doing this in the presents of the Jews.
You parkerbrothers, are confusing us regular christian sinners with the Holy Apostles and disciples. They couldn't teach one day then carry on a 5 day work week at the office then go back to preaching again on sunday. They were 24/7 teachers and had to make sure they didn't say or do anything (even though it was okay to do it) that would offend a jew who thought it was still a sin to do. They couldn't let their guard down for a second or they would have been presecuted sooner.
> If you have to wait until you see Him to ask Him you will not know Him when you see Him.
Your quick reply to rebelrose, was short and blunt and couldn't have been said any better by anyone. I think the Holy Spirit put that one in your mind. I know that answer came from the Holy Spirit!
Sorry, I just heard on the 700 club that Calif okayed the same sex marriages. It may be overtuned but not before sept.
Calif, is the leader in the laws in this country so it looks like it will be okayed nationwide.
Parkerbrothers all I can say is: I can not cast the first stone!
Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 8:39 PM
You cast the first stone upon yourself when you said you were going to hell?
They taught the Jews first but when they refused the word of God they were allowed to teach the word of God to the Gentiles. This made the Jews very jealous and so they had to be very careful about doing this in the presents of the Jews.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 8:39 PM
Unique-Lies,
Listen, Peter was just plain wrong and does not need an excuse made for him some 2000 years later. If there was an excuse for his behaviour it would have been given then.
I suspect we'll all leave here with sins we haven't overcome and many we aren't aware of or haven't acknowledged.
That's why I'm grateful that Christ has cleansed away all my sins and not just the ones I'll have been smart enough to work on myself.
He'll be able to teach me a lot I couldn't comprehend here,straighten me out on some things I did and reveal quite a few missed opportunities to act on His behalf.
Sometimes,I've imagined the child's simplified version of Judgement day and pictured the Lord telling the folks in line "Make yourself comfortable. I'm starting in on quantumcat and this is gonna take a while."
"Er..Lord,I know my name's in the Book of Life but where IS my life?
All I see are blank pages."
"You know that the blood shed on Calvary removed all your iniquity,right?"
"Yes,Sir".
"I'm sorry,my friend,when we took that out of the story,there wasn't anything left."
I'll have plenty to catch up on then but I try to hit Him up for a little insight now while I can still put it to good use.
First, I don't think this Blog is a church service. It is a way to build on what we have learned over the years, if we get off the sins of a handful and concentrate on Gods will. How many Homosexuals did you convert with all this arguing? It has to be done in a civil pleasant manner not by a tongue lashing mob.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 8:39 PM
I am not tongue lashing anyone. Only pointing out a very basic fact. I have never seen it as arguing. You can not argue with a fact.
You may see fit to special treat this sin and you may do as you wish. I am not being lead that way. If simple logic is applied and you took every statement that has ever been made on here dealing with the sin of homosexuality and everywhere the word homosexual is used and substituted another sin (word) in its place there would be a total different way of thinking from most everyone including you.
How insane would it look for a thief or rapist or murderer to present the same appeal for consideration.
As far as how many homosexuals have I converted? None. I can not convert someone. You know better than to ask such a question. Christ does the converting.
Regardless of our opinions about homosexuality, the judges in California are telling the people of the state (who have already voted against this) that they dont really care what Californians think or what they want. It makes me wonder for what reasons do we vote, whenever the government (on whatever level) decides what the people are gonna do, instead of us telling the government what they are gonna do. The more I think about it, the less I care about the horrific behaviour of homosexuality and the more I worry about a tyrannical state government, because as the blog says, as goes California....
quantumcat,
I know what you are saying and it is correct but I feel like it is not complete.
You made the statements:
"I suspect we'll all leave here with sins we haven't overcome and many we aren't aware of or haven't acknowledged." and "You know that the blood shed on Calvary removed all your iniquity,right?"
I believe this wholeheartedly just like you but I think it is not a complete statement until you acknowledge that a Christian will be "trying" to eliminate these sins that they have not yet overcome when they leave here. They will not be trying to conjure up an excuse for them. They will be asking for help to eliminate instead of telling excuses for acceptance.
Yes, the blood shed at Calvary did indeed cover all iniquity. But it did not give licence to commit all wanted iniquities. If it did I am like greasemonkey. Let's go rob a bank. It is covered by the blood. That is not going to work here or there. Convince it will and I'll cut you in on half the loot.
parkerbrothers,
> You cast the first stone upon yourself when you said you were going to hell?
Parkerbrothers all I can say is: I can not cast the second stone!
You caught me in a lie so now I will go to hell for lieing.
> Listen, Peter was just plain wrong and does not need an excuse made for him some 2000 years later. If there was an excuse for his behaviour it would have been given then.
What book and verse are you talking about.
Peter was one of those guys who were filled with the Holy Ghost. I will have to read it to believe that he gave his life for Jesus and was executed for his testamony for Jesus Christ and now I hear that you say he was doing something that was just plain wrong.
Please give me the book, chapter and verses.
On an international scale, the most comprehensive study to date on the effect of same-sex marriage / partnership on heterosexual marriage and divorce rates was conducted looking at over 15 years of data from the Scandinavian countries. The study (later part of a book), by researcher Darren Spedale, found that, 15 years after Denmark had granted same-sex couples the rights of marriage, rates of heterosexual marriage in those countries had gone up, and rates of heterosexual divorce had gone down - contradicting the concept that same-sex marriage would have a negative effect on traditional marriage.[69]
All U.S. states submit monthly summaries of vital statistics on births, deaths, marriages, and divorces to the U.S. Center For Disease Control's National Center For Health Statistics (NCHS) who then prepares monthly and yearly reports. The following statistics are based on that NCHS material. Over three years have passed now since same-sex marriage was legalized in Massachusetts and data from all of 2004 and 2005 are now available.
The current divorce trends in Massachusetts counter claims of same-sex marriage having a negative impact on traditional marriage. In fact, for several years now the Commonwealth has had the lowest divorce rate of any state in the union. In 2004 the Massachusetts divorce rate, at 2.2 per 1,000 residents per year, was considerably lower than the U.S. national average rate for that year, 3.8 per 1,000 and close to the national average of 2.0 back in 1940. In the first two years of same-sex marriage in the Bay State, the rate of divorce showed a steady decline making it likely that Massachusetts will continue to have the lowest divorce rate in the nation.
States which have taken aggressive action against same-sex marriage have not done nearly as well during the two year period of legal same-sex marriage in Massachusetts. The preliminary data from 2004 and 2005--from the 17 U.S. states which have provided data on divorce for 2004 and 2005 and whose voters also passed state constitutional amendments prohibiting same-sex marriage--presents a striking picture: the group of U.S. states arguably most hostile to divorce, those which have passed both state laws and also state constitutional amendments prohibiting same-sex marriage, lag dramatically in terms of divorce rate improvement when compared to same-sex marriage-friendly states.
Among those U.S. states that are most opposed to same-sex marriage which have also provided divorce data for the time period -- Arkansas, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Utah, Texas -- the average divorce rate ( unadjusted for population changes ) for 2004 and 2005 increased 1.75%. This group contains 4 of the 5 states with the highest divorce rate increases in the U.S. during 2004 and the first 11 months of 2005.
A little odd, considering... It goes against everything the fear-mongerers would have you believe. The most applicable advice I can give any of you concerning same-sex marriage is, that if you're own marriage were going smoothly you wouldn't be so concerned about everyone else's. This is so true among heterosexual couples as well. The folks who look at other marriages in comparison to their own cause me to laugh hysterically. Why do ANY of us care who Jo and Susy are doing in their bedroom, or John and Jim, or WHOEVER... Perhaps if your own lives weren't so dull and full of despair, you'd see that not everyone seeks to be as miserable as all of you.
And lest you forget, there are other sinners in the world that need saving also, but not until God sends them to you. Last week you wanted to go out and lay hands on everyone and fill them with the Holy spirit and this week you are ready to cast them in Hell because they want something you can't forgive them of.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 8:39 PM
Unique-Lies,
You are confused in what I have said. I am not interested in casting anyone into Hell nor am I capable of such power. I desire to see them pulled out of what deception is pushing them into.
You were also confused about me wanting to go out and lay hands on everyone and fill them with the Holy spirit last week. Yes, I would like to be able to do this but I am not in control of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is in control of me. I would have to be the controller to be the filler.
parkerbrother....SHAME ON YOU....YOU ARE A VERY UGLY MAN...I WILL KNOW HIM WHEN I SEE HIM...WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE????? I THINK YOU ARE A VERY RUDE AND UGLY PERSON......I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU HAVE A KIND BONE IN YOU...YOU ARE NOT EVEN WORTH ANSWERING BACK TO. I BELIEVE IT IS A WASTE OF TIME TO EVEN READ ANYTHING YOU HAVE TO SAY....GOD HAS TAUGHT ME TO LOVE EVERYONE AND NOT JUDGE ANYONE...IT IS NOT MY PLACE OR YOUR PLACE TO JUDGE ANYONE....YOU ARE A VERY RUDE PERSON
jesuslovesevery1,
What does God think about this?
Oh and by the way.. Does anyone realize the economy is pathetic. The war is pathetic. The weather is odd. Thousands of people are dying by religious persecution in foreign lands. Earthquakes, hurricanes, cyclones, and tornadoes have begun ravaging the earth taking millions of innocent lives. Many people are having to decide between food and fuel. We cater to terrorists by virtue of the CIA. We don't prosecute crooks in the Bush administration. The people who lost EVERYTHING they saved from Enron, Arthur Andersen, WorldCom and so many more haven't been served justice. People in New Orleans STILL NEED HOMES, veterans are living on the streets, military bases are indescribably despicable. The Patriot Act, Guantanamo Bay, and other secret CIA prison camps around the world go 100% against the Geneva Accords. Three of the top 5 largest U.S. corporations in 2006, 2007, and soon-to-be-2008 were OIL companies, the divorce rate (amongst HETEROSEXUALS) trumps the marriage rate, people are dying of cancer, we are selling this country to China as we speak.... Yet the most important thing on many people's agenda is continuing to oppress the gays... If only those who are so against something that doesn't even exist in great magnitude, were FOR doing something good for the world, wouldn't this thing called Earth be a little more amazing. It's no wonder these atrocities are continuing to happen. Because we sit by and let them happen, but you would let hell freeze over before you realize it's not YOUR decision to interfere with anyone's happiness.
You caught me in a lie so now I will go to hell for lieing.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 11:25 PM
I never said you were going to Hell for any reason. I know not where you are going. You made the claim of your destination to Hell. I like others found it peculiar for you to make such a statement of yourself. I think we asked for clarification and did not see it.
jesuslovesevery1,
No one is wanting to oppress the gays. I think they are wanting to liberate them. From deception that is. All the things you mentioned above are nothing compared to the eternal soul of one deceived one.
Parkerbrothers... Why do you only comment on Michael's obsession with homosexuals?
If I were his wife (thank god I'm not) I'd be a little concerned that the only thing he has time to talk about are the gays. I think he googles "gay news" everyday and puts a sick twist depicting "God' view" on it. Pathetic attempt at coming out of the closet. That's why they say it's much better to do it earlier in life... *hint hint*
I just laugh everyday at the thought of you two. You just can't get enough of one another. You're "straight men" and he is "happily married" yet he is so caught up in GAYS, who aren't MARRIED that it begs the question, why is he so unhappy all the time? Btw, Michael, what you attempted to when selling that car to "those people" was VERY unchristianlike... Yeah, you have NO idea who I am, but I DO know you.
jesuslovesevery1,
No one is wanting to oppress the gays. I think they are wanting to liberate them. From deception that is. All the things you mentioned above are nothing compared to the eternal soul of one deceived one.
-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 11:54 PM
Well deceived you are... Because if those things are "nothing" to you... you are one completely misguided human being.
rebelrose,
I judge not. I am judged.
LMFAO. Stupid.
PARKERBROTHERS...Dag Blast-it all you have made me strike back at you because you said I would not know God when I see him...That hurt me very much...I will know God when I see him and I know God now...Just because I can not HATE everyone that lives a different life than me does not mean I do not know God or have him in my heart...I do not judge anyone.....I see everyone as my brothers and sisters....I just do not have hate in me...Yes I can get up-set with people when I know they have hurt me or someone I love or anyone else...But I do not hate them....My God that I grew up with loves everyone....He is the one that will forgive them if they have done something wrong...It is not our place to judge and put down all his children...I know that God has got me thru many of bad times and very sad times in my life...I know it was not God that gave me breast cancer twice..but I know it was him that took it away and picked me up every time I was down...I do not blame god for taking my 5 year old grandson home to him...But I know he was waiting for him when he got to heaven. It was not God's fault that our home burned down in 2004 and we lost everything we owned..But I know it was God who brought all the people to us to help us out...So do not ever say to me that I will not know God ...That was very rude of you....
jesuslovesevery1,
Read slowly what was said. I did not say they were nothing. I said they were nothing compared to the eternal soul of one deceived one.
Let me say the same thing in another way. The things you mentioned are monumental. The value of one eternal soul however is a billion times more monumental that even those things you mentioned which were of a short term physical nature.
LMFAO. Stupid.
-- Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Sat, May 17, 2008, at 12:00 AM
No doubt you are.
LMFAO is what I meant if you were trying to decide.
rebelrose,
If you know it to be false it will not bother you.
Good night to Everyone...Parkerbrothers I hope you can sleep in peace at night...I know I can
Parkerbrothers... Why do you only comment on Michael's obsession with homosexuals?
-- Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 11:54 PM
I do not comment only on the homosexual topic. You only notice those comments for some reason which generates the actual question?
rebelrose,
Always.
Peter was one of those guys who were filled with the Holy Ghost. I will have to read it to believe that he gave his life for Jesus and was executed for his testamony for Jesus Christ and now I hear that you say he was doing something that was just plain wrong.
Please give me the book, chapter and verses.
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 11:25 PM
Unique-Lies,
Sorry for the short delay. I was somewhat detained. The truth had set a few fires and it was a little smokey on the road back.
Galatians 2:
11But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
To JlE what car are we talking about I used to sell cars for a living at one time The inly vehicle I have sold on my own was a truck .
how bout some more hints?
I think that Michael bell needs to get a grip. Being an PROUD GAY MAN in Shelbyville, I don't get all bent out of shape when I see you breeders together. Why would anyone want to deny the right for someone to be happy. If us queers want to be misseralbe in marriage like the rest of the breeders, why have a problem with it. People are afraid of what they don't understand. and people get defencive when they get afraid. What are you afraid of, Michael? How are you affected personally by me and my boyfriend sharing a bed?
parkerbrothers,
> You are confused in what I have said. I am not interested in casting anyone into Hell nor am I capable of such power. I desire to see them pulled out of what deception is pushing them into.
"What you bind on earth will be binded in heaven and what you loose on eath will be loose in heaven."
> You were also confused about me wanting to go out and lay hands on everyone and fill them with the Holy spirit last week. Yes, I would like to be able to do this but I am not in control of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is in control of me. I would have to be the controller to be the filler.
"If you are born again and adide in His Word, you ARE His disciple indeed. As a disciple you have the same power in Jesus's name as His disciples had. You have a power of attorney to use Jesus's name to heal, cast out demons and even raise the dead if you believe."
Most Christians get upset when they heard about someone laying hands on people to ask God to heal them. They just can't beleive that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
If you are born again you have the power to lay hands on and should. You can baptise in the Holy Spirit, so why aren't you? Jesus said if you are too embarrassed to try to heal or lay hands on, then he will deny you before His Father. Lay hands on the Homosexuals and cast out the afflictions satan has laid on them, Then you can say you have done God's will and done something speakable for the Homosexuals. You condemn them, but won't do anything to cast out the demon in them that makes them have these "unnatural" desires.
>I never said you were going to Hell for any reason. I know not where you are going. You made the claim of your destination to Hell. I like others found it peculiar for you to make such a statement of yourself. I think we asked for clarification and did not see it.
You got it... you just can't accept it nor believe it, because you know it applies to everyone of us!
>Sorry for the short delay. I was somewhat detained. The truth had set a few fires and it was a little smokey on the road back.
Isn't that exactly what I told Michael? "Relax and move on before he lost people in his congregation or his non-profit status." Isn't that what just happened to you with you hate for the Gays? I know it is wrong but God has to change their desire to come to Him before we can help them. Right now they don't want help, just left alone to enjoy their lives.
I said earlier that our U.S. Constitution guarantees us certain rights and the states nor the churches can take them away.
My last line on Homosexuals is this: Look at all the churches that have preachers and/or elders who are having Homosexual experiences with boys and young men then you want to talk about others. Clean the Lords house first then cast your stones at the rest. This goes on without you even knowing it because some people think Homosexuality shound stay in the dark.
>> rebelrose
Forgive us rebelrose!
It was the way you said it that made parkerbrothers answer purrfect.
You said "....I do not know...But when I get there to see him I will ask him."
It looked like you were insinuating that you have to wait until you get to heaven to see Him (before you could ask Him anything). I knew what you meant and won't say you said anything wrong. I just thought that parkerbrothers answer was the "Ultimate" answer to your statement when he said...
"If you have to wait until you see Him to ask Him you will not know Him when you see Him".
rebelrose,
Yes, forgive me also if you were offended but try to understand that you have acknowledged yourself to be a Christian and had earlier expressed your opinion and made comments that did not condemn homosexuality and I then asked you "What did God think of it?". You then made another comment that said you would have to wait to see him to ask Him. I was simply saying that if you know his Word you should already know Him and know of His wrath toward any sin including but but limited to Homosexuality and would not have to wait until you see Him to ask his opinion. He has clearly stated it and I know it. You as a Sister should know what our God thinks of this sin and others. My apology is extended to you for your hurt feelings, not for my beliefs or opinion which is still the same today as it was yesterday and will be tommorrow.
I also want to clarify something you said about me and others Hating Homosexuals. I absolutely have no hatred at all toward anyone. I actually care enough about even the ones (Homosexuals) I have never met nor will ever be priviledged to meet to not want to see their eternal soul to be deceived. We (the ones you say have hatred) actually may be the only ones that care at all about the Homosexuals. Most everyone is willing to support and show acceptance of their open sin and have no interest in pulling them from the fire. Let em go is their attitude. That attitude has no care or feelings whatsoever for another soul other than their's.
If you had a child and knew there was danger down the road but he wanted to go more than anything in his life and insisted that it was all okay because others were saying it was all right to go what would you do? If you absolutely knew that his or her death was going to be the result of you accepting his most wanted desire to go how would you respond in love to him or her?
Is it love when you let him or her to be deceived happy? There is a big difference between short term happiness and long term joy. Not always but usually they originate from two opposite sources that are as different as Dark and Light.
Unique-Lies,
I am running late and will not be back in before 2:00 tonight but I do want to respond to your comments. I appreciate all the input you always have in these little discussions and do not want you to think that I wasn't appreciative due to not responding. I just have to get on the road for a while.
The obvious reason that I oppose homosexuality is that it goes against the way I was raised up.
I was raised on a normal household with a mother and father who taught me it that is was wrong.
It goes against the bible for it says to be fruitful and multiply, last time I checked, yall can't do that.
Bible says that for a marriage bed of a man and woman is undefiled.
Even if I was satanist or whatever else I would believe it was wrong.
If one generation were to be that way and raise their kids that way , how long would it take for it to die out.
I feel that if equality is given to them that it will be imposed on my children and other Christian children to where they won't know what is normal or abnormal.
Some say that the "world " should not be my concern but as long as I am still in the flesh it is my home and I want to see it have biblical values and come to the understanding that it needs a Saviour.
The bible says that Every Knee Will Bow and Every Tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord I choose to do it now so whether you gain entrance into Heaven or are cast into Hell , you will confess.
We may have to tolerate gay rights , but we don't have to accept it as right or morally acceptable.
I wouldn't make this about sexual reproduction.
1. That doesn't apply much to the under twenty and over forty (the twenty years considered optimum for healthy pregnancies).
2. Homosexuals have had children for years-just not with same-sex partners.
3. Children can be brought into the world via non-traditional methods.
For example,a lesbian could be impregnated by a donor male and have her partner carry the baby.
The child would be doubly the partner's baby if the genetic material were placed in one of her eggs (letting the embryo have her matrilineal DNA as well as the genes of the other two parents).
With two males,one could father a child using an egg belonging to a female relative of the other.
That's not counting future possibilities like cloning or plain,old adoption.
God hasn't stuck to the usual method of brining babies into being so He might not mind our improvising if He insists we have young.
4. Some people shouldn't or can't have children.
They might have genetic disorders it would be irresponsible to pass down,they might be sterile or pregnancy might prove life threatening.
5. There are more babies (human and otherwise) being born now than there are good homes to raise them.
Having fewer infants and more families could better the odds that the children here could grow up in healthy,stable homes,learn proper values and make sure that any offspring they have has a chance to thrive.
I don't think you're saying that a man who's had his prostate removed or had mumps or testicular cancer can't marry.
Nor would you deny marriage to a woman who's had a hysterectomy.
If infertile people can have a real marriage,then being able to conceive and bear one's own children can't be the prime criterion.
I was reminded recently that,in the Bible, "hate" usually means "to love less".
It does not mean to have no love at all or to have an active,undistilled,Satanic hostility toward the object of that hatred.
We need to make sure that we treat those whose behavior we dislike with Biblical hatred (we'd like anyone better if they reduced their number of imperfections) and not from the corruption that the enemy has forced upon us.
If we preserve the welfare and dignity of even those we oppose,we'll run less risk that some truly ungodly force will impose a "Might makes right" mentality instead of the "Right makes Might" that assumes good can prosper on its own merits and does not require being shoved down people's throats.
This all comes down to,do you believe the Bible or not!We can debate back and forth till the cows come home.But if you don't believe what the word of God says your not going to change anything in your life.
We will all keep on doing and believing what ever we want to.People will decide what they think is right for them.No matter what we as christans have to say,the unbelievers will not listen.The sad part is, the ones who claim to be christans agreeing with the unbelievers.That makes the true christians look like they are judgemental and hateful.When they state what the Bible says.Because they are not afraid to speak the truth,just because it might hurt someone's feelings.It just might save a soul from hell.
We can tell ourselves that something is right long enough that we will begin to believe it.Just because the gulit feeling is gone doesn't mean God has changed his mind about a sin.Or because man has made a law that say's its ok doesn't make it ok with God.It just draws people further into the lie.I'm not just harping on homosexuals,I'm talking about living together,having affairs on the side too they all destroy society also.Their is no more trust in people mom and dad can't get along argueing all the time.Children grow up unsettled and nervous and hateful to people.
My point is God gave us a good set of guide lines to live by.We just have to believe in him and trust him.But if we don't believe the Bible; we end up with a world like we have now.Not knowing what is truth.By not knowing truth we can't make a right decision about anything, because all of our decisions are based on lies.Decisions based on lie after,after lie,after lie ends in confusion.Isn't that what we have now in the world.
We need God now more than we ever have.All those that are true christians to stand up open our mouths and proclaim the gospel of Christ and not worry about who's feelings it hurts That's what Jesus did,if you don't believe that, you need to go back and read the New Testament again.Theres' no need to argue, state what the Lord had to say, let the truth be proclaimed and move on.The true christians do not have to defend the word of God it will stand on its' own.
rights4all
That is what most of this discussion is about, the majority in California voted against the queers calling their union with each other marriage.Marriage is covenant word given to a male and female when they join together as one.
God also gave yours one. It's called an abomination. Now he gave you a choice and I pray you make the right one.Your group is trying to justify their life style. That is why they wanted to be called (G.A.Y.s) because it sounded more socially acceptable, and that is also the reason they want to have their unions called marriage.
Sorry Charley, that word was given to Male and Female unions. Your group need to find another name to call it's legal contract between two males,or two females. You have that right here in this country to do so. Go to Iran and try to justify it there.
The voice of millions should be honored in California over the voice of seven.
P.S.
rights4all - If you have any questions about what God thinks about your group go to Romans 1:28-1:32 and get your answer.Maybe it will help you make a wise decision.
Unique - I finaly got to read your last statement on the Nero blog. My answer is this. Some christians believe Melchizedec came back in human form and also died. He was called Jesus in human form.
Some say Melcizedec was also Shem who was still alive in the time of Abraham .
Since he would have been the patriach of the area he would of had high esteem .
Just a thought.
sand-flea,
I read your above post and want to say that it says what I feel. I wish I had better communication skills. I try to say (type) what I feel (which is almost exactly what you posted) but it seems to come out wrong when I do it and I get flogged.
I especially feel what you said in..."The sad part is, the ones who claim to be christans agreeing with the unbelievers."
Maybe the key word in that statement is "claim".
Maybe you and I have been deceived into thinking all "claims" are valid.
A lot of claiming went on out West during the Gold Rush. A lot of those claims were deemed invalid after checking in the Record Book.
jesse sellers - This sounds like a possiblity, but nothing confirms it. It would make sense that it was Jesus before He came as flesh and blood and therefore Melchisedec would have died as Jesus.
This would not be the same as being reincarnated as Jesus, because Melchizedec doesn't die then come back as Jesus.
The bible only says that the Son of God became flesh as Jesus Christ and died for our sins. Just one of the things we won't know until we see him again.
Hebrews 7:1-15 explains a little about Melchisedec but leaves a lot to be a mystery. It basically says that God swears that Jesus is a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec, but doesn't confirm that he is Jesus or anyone else.
That is what most of this discussion is about, the majority in California voted against the queers calling their union with each other marriage.Marriage is covenant word given to a male and female when they join together as one.
God also gave yours one. It's called an abomination. Now he gave you a choice and I pray you make the right one.Your group is trying to justify their life style. That is why they wanted to be called (G.A.Y.s) because it sounded more socially acceptable, and that is also the reason they want to have their unions called marriage.
Sorry Charley, that word was given to Male and Female unions. Your group need to find another name to call it's legal contract between two males,or two females. You have that right here in this country to do so. Go to Iran and try to justify it there.
The voice of millions should be honored in California over the voice of seven.
-- Posted by jesse sellers on Sun, May 18, 2008, at 2:20 AM
jesse sellers,
I appreciated your comment above. It made me see what was bothering me in particular with this sin (Homosexuality).
It is the "push" for acceptance of use of the word marriage. To allow them to use the word marriage forces me to have to loose something. To hear the word marriage used for homosexuals violates everything I have been taught to associate with that word.
I honestly believe I would not have any problems with the law allowing them to be united in a ceremony of abomination. I could even accept having taxes taken out of my wages of work to provide health care for them so long as a rider or exclusion was put on it for Aids or any other type plague or disease associated with the abomination they were forewarned of.
My health and life insurance has riders on it for any high risk behaviors that I participate in. I almost never got life insurance because I participated in deep water diving, flying planes and racing cars. I was penalized for enjoying behaviors that were somewhat of a risk although they were not as risky as homosexual behavior nor are they considered abominations.
Perhaps that could be a compromise. Give homosexuals equal rights but also equal responsibilities. I think I would even vote for what they want if:
#1 - They would choose another word instead of marriage for their union. We have correctly labeled unions between man and woman as "marriage" for thousands of years. It is a Holy Word. I might even go far as to support them if they would correctly call their union an "abomination" which is the correct Holy Word for their union. It should be their responsibility to find another word for their union and not weaken and redefine our word of "marriage".
#2 - They would agree to exclusions and riders being attached to all their benefits and coverage's of their known high risk behaviors and accepts the responsibilities of their desires.
I could go along with that here and let God have the final word on it there.
michaelbell
> Some say Melcizedec was also Shem who was still alive in the time of Abraham .
Since he would have been the patriach of the area he would of had high esteem .
Just a thought.
>> That is a Jewish tradition that Shem was Melchisedec.
This is impossible because of several things.
Melchisedec had no father or mother nor any descendents. Shem had a father and mother. Shem was the first of Noah's three sons. Even Abraham was a descendent of Shem.
True, Shem was still alive during this time, but Shem was not a priest even though he was a righteous man.
The bible says that Melchisedec was the King of righteous and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace, was without a beginning nor an end of life (Hebrews 7:3).
Jesus was the Prince of peace, so this Melchisedec, as King of peace, would have been higher than Jesus, and that didn't happen with Shem.
Shem wasn't the King of Salem that I am aware of. Shem has a date of birh and death so that doesn't fit Melchisedec's bio.
I did some reseach and feel that I now know who Melchisedec was and will try to explain it to you when I come back.
If you are born again you have the power to lay hands on and should. You can baptise in the Holy Spirit, so why aren't you? Jesus said if you are too embarrassed to try to heal or lay hands on, then he will deny you before His Father. Lay hands on the Homosexuals and cast out the afflictions satan has laid on them, Then you can say you have done God's will and done something speakable for the Homosexuals. You condemn them, but won't do anything to cast out the demon in them that makes them have these "unnatural" desires.
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sat, May 17, 2008, at 11:18 AM
Unique-Lies,
There are a few things about the above post that I have questions about.
#1 - What book, verse and chapter did you find ..."Jesus said if you are too embarrassed to try to heal or lay hands on, then he will deny you before His Father." I missed that somewhere and I am interested in finding it.
#2 - You loosely throw the term "condemn them". I know you know better than to insinuate that. I condemn no one nor many nor you. I absolutely condemn the act and sin of homosexuality but not the soul of the homosexual. I actually care for them but condemn and despise the deception and the deceptor.
#3 - How many have you laid hands on and healed? I have never performed, witnessed nor experienced either. If I had that gift or power I would be at the hospitals, nursing homes, prisons, rehabilitation centers, etc., etc. half the time and spend the other half turning down lucrative offers from people, insurance companies and medical professionals since I would do if for free. I may be wrong but I think that gift and power along with many others was given for a brief period of time for a specific reason. I am not saying it can not occur today but rather it is the exception today as it was the normal of that time period.
You parkerbrothers, are confusing us regular christian sinners with the Holy Apostles and disciples.
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 8:39 PM
Unique-Lies,
This might actually apply to some of your thoughts.
Isn't that exactly what I told Michael? "Relax and move on before he lost people in his congregation or his non-profit status." Isn't that what just happened to you with you hate for the Gays? I know it is wrong but God has to change their desire to come to Him before we can help them. Right now they don't want help, just left alone to enjoy their lives.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Sat, May 17, 2008, at 10:58 AM
Unique-Lies,
Two questions about your above comment:
#1 - Why do you insinuate I hate the gays? How many times can I say I actually care for each and every one of them and still not get the point across to everyone. It is their deceptor that I do not like and a deceptor is any one who tries to accomplish what Satan did with Eve when he tried to clerely insinuate and tell her something was indeed right when God had told them it definitely was not. The almost exact thing is occurring on here with some people claiming to be Christians.
#2 - The last sentence of your above post says to let them alone and let them enjoy their lives and God has to change their desires. However in another post you tell me I am suppossed to be out laying hands on them and healing them and insinuate that I will be denied before my Father if I am not. Which is it today?
Before I get accused of "hating" I don't.
I hate drugs , not the users.
I hate divorce, not the divorcees.
I hate all sin , not the sinners.
If we as Christian's know that homosexuality is a sin "which it is" we must do all we can to keep it from being made legal for then it will become accepted as normal and finally not a sin.
Cohabitation was made legal so it is not viewed of as bad.
Drinking has been made acceptable.
Porn has been made widely acceptable.
Divorce is easy to get.
Abortions are always available.
I could list countless others but I won't.
Point is if the gay agenda is pushed and made the norm then what is next?
Adults can marry young children with out parents permission or preteen girls can get abortions without parents approval.
Drugs will be made legal and all other such garbage, it has to stop here!
Unique
Read the complete chapter of Hebrews 7 and study on verses 12,13,14.
Thanks for the new web sites, I may start having more respect for this machine.
michaelbell,
As more and more is tolerated less and less is distinquishable as left or right and good or bad to the generation that see it.
Let three generations of children pass from now and bestiality will be then only viewed as something just a little different than the norm and when farmer John breaks out of the closet (or kicks the barn door down) with Bessy on a lead rope to the Courthouse I hope there is one Christian left that will still recognize it as a sin and ask for them to use a word besides Marriage Licence when they show up at the County Clerks office.
parkerbrothers
You stated in one of your posts that you thought that the gifts of healing was given for a brief period of time.
That is not true, he gave gifts to his church for the benefit of all.His gifts are given without repentence.All the gifts mentioned in the Bible are for us today also.Read Mark 16:15-18,John 14;12 1Cor 12, James 5:13-15.
The Lord also stated the he would answer our prayers if we believed and didn't doubt.It sounds too simple JUST BELIEVE.
Their are many more scriptures to back this up. I will search them out for you.
sand-flea,
I am headed to the house and will read all the mentioned verses you wrote and more. I hope you noticed earlier that I said "I am not saying it can not occur today but rather it is the exception today as it was the normal of that time period."
I personally feel there are seasons for everything. I think we are due to see another season of miracles shortly and many people will be deceived.
Parker
I challenged this generation a few blogs back to live in freedom longer than I do. I see the signs of freedom being taken away because of the failures of my generation, such as letting our leaders answer to large companies instead of to us. It's not our army that is going to fail, it's us, the public, that will lose the freedom.
Just like abortion -- my generation let judges make laws that are against God's law. Those laws aren't legal. We failed to train our children, and grand childern that sex isn't a sporting event. It is a life and death matter.
Doctors had to change their hippocratic oath to do abortions. The love of money created most of this mess.
My hat's off to most of this generation, because you will have a hard fight ahead of you to straightien out this mess we are leaving you with.
parkerbrothers
Yes i understood what you said.I happen to believe they have always been available.I have seen healing,have even prayed for people to be healed ,and they have been.I personally have been prayed for and been healed immeditaly.I know from experience that it is for today,and has always been in affect
parkerbrothers
I will be up for a while tonight if you need to talkmore about this.
sand-flea,
I went home early and read the chapters of each verse you had mentioned. I will respond back this afternoon or tonight when we get finished working here today. Thanks
parkerbrothers
> #1 - What book, verse and chapter did you find ..."Jesus said if you are too embarrassed to try to heal or lay hands on, then he will deny you before His Father." I missed that somewhere and I am interested in finding it.
>> That was something I read back in the early '70's and I have no idea where to find it now. I have forgotten more verse locations than most people will ever know. I used to take notes everyday and had several note books full of note giving me the locations for everything I felt was important to me. When I moved I put a lot of my personal things in storage. My work stopped and I lost everything I had in storage because I had other bills to pay that were more important than my storage bill. Our personel property has been distributed all over Bedford county by auctions, etc.. Someone out there has my notes.
> #2 - You loosely throw the term "condemn them". I know you know better than to insinuate that. I condemn no one nor many nor you. I absolutely condemn the act and sin of homosexuality but not the soul of the homosexual. I actually care for them but condemn and despise the deception and the deceptor.
>> Not only were you condemning the Homosexuals, but me also because I am saying to leave them alone and do good where you can. The Homosexuals is a mute issue for us. This isn't a church, just a blog to express your thoughts and beliefs. You have expressed your thoughts on them and Calif. doesn't care what you think. We were talking about the Homosexuals in Calif weren't we?
> #3 - How many have you laid hands on and healed? I have never performed, witnessed nor experienced either. If I had that gift or power I would be at the hospitals, nursing homes, prisons, rehabilitation centers, etc., etc. half the time and spend the other half turning down lucrative offers from people, insurance companies and medical professionals since I would do if for free. I may be wrong but I think that gift and power along with many others was given for a brief period of time for a specific reason. I am not saying it can not occur today but rather it is the exception today as it was the normal of that time period.
>> I have only laid hands on myself. I was given the gift of knowledge so I stay with it.
Mark 9:38-41
38 "Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
39 "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me,
40 for whoever is not against us is for us.
This tells us that even a person who isn't a born again christian can lay hands on and heal and cast out demons.
It even proves what Jesus meant when he said many will say I cast out demons and healed people and Jesus will say I don't know you.
One of the most important verses is: Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. That means His Gifts are ours forever not just for the apostles nor just for back then. Jesus's gifts go on forever. Don't you watch any TV at all? People are being healed everyday by God in Jesus' name.
>> You parkerbrothers, are confusing us regular christian sinners with the Holy Apostles and disciples.-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, May 16, 2008, at 8:39 PM
Unique-Lies, - This might actually apply to some of your thoughts.
>> That is true. You have to believe what you think is the truth. Am I telling everyone lies? You know I am going to say it is the Truth and not Lies!
>>> What do you say I tell? Am I lieing to you and everyone else?
jesse sellers
Your post to Parker on Sun, May 18, 2008, at 9:02 PM was disgusting and vulgar, but above all, it was the TRUTH! It is Michaelbell's belief that his generation is the last generation and that may be true also. Not to fear though, because Michael's generation will have the Anti-christ to straighten out the economy and all the worldy problems, or so the Bible says.
(Not only will it be the "Last Generation", but it will be the "First Generation" also. The "First Generation" to go through the Trials and tribulations. The only people to be exempt are the 144,000 Jews out of 7 Billion People World Wide.
With all the churches hiding the truth about the end times, so they can keep people coming back to church, I don't think their congregations will know it's the anti-christ until Jesus returns to end his reign.
Even Jesus is bringing plagues and pestilence when He returns and even going to slay the wicked and evil Himself with His angels (the 144,000) (Matthew 13:36-43). We have all heard about this...two in the field, one is taken the other left! This isn't talking about the Rapture. This is Jesus and his angels killing the people here on earth when He returns. He isn't wiping away the tears like you have been taught. That comes later, much, much later. We still have a life after death to live (Revelation 20:4-10) before we are judged.
Unique-Lies
I've often wondered, why you don't have your own church to teach in.
sand-flea
If I had my own church to teach in I would be called an occult because I teach the truth and against what most churches teach. I would be labelled as a branch davidian church or jonestown religious leader with followers. I don't want nor need followers. I want everyone to lead themselves by learning the truth for themselves.
If people don't start reading the bible for themselves, and mainly revelation, then they may be lost when they need to know what is really happening.
The bible says in the last days, people will be able to understand Revelation. I am proof that is true!
Unique-Lies
I don't know about being labled an occult.But I do know you would rub some people the wrong way.
Wouldn't it be more fulfilling and the will of God.With someone with so much knowledge teaching his people the truth.And displacing all the fiction.
You are correct about people studying the word for themselves.Also they need a teacher to guide them through the Bible, not everyone can understand It's meaning.
I also read your post about Melchizedek in the blog(Remember Nero) I thought it made a lot of sense.Looks like it took a lot of researching. Thanks!
C.S. Lewis' Aslan is meant to show the less cuddly side of Christ.
He is a lion-not a Linus the Lion-hearted or Bert Lahr or Clarence-the Cross-eyed Lion type of overgrown kitten.
He is the Lion of Judah and more like Elsa of "Born Free" in that his loving nature complements his power but never erases it.
In describing an encounter with Aslan,Lewis describes it as being "the most afraid you can be and still be happy and the happiest you can be and still be afraid".
This is the God we will know in the last age.
He will not be a cruel or distant overlord nor will he be a babe in the manger or "Buddy Christ" or some sort of divine game show host handing out goodies to lucky contestants.
He will be a hero that fills his own comrades with awe and his enemies with sheer terror.
We can see a hint of that in "Prince Caspian" and a lot of it in our own reality in times to come.
It won't just be the difference in species that will have to be ignored before Bessy's marriage to a human can occur.
Unless,those intervening years have a LOT of changes,Bessy won't be sentient enough to enter into a contract or have pre-nuptual counselling or be a self-supporing person in her own right before she marries.
If people will be "marrying" animals that are helpess chattel,does anyone believe that human spouses would be getting more decent treatment?
Do you think pets would be regarded as deserving respect and consideration?
The sin in bestiality,pedophilia and the like doesn't involve physical attraction.
It is that the fetish requires that the other party be disregarded and treated as a soulless object.
(In Nabokov's "Lolita", Humbert Humbert is an obvious victim of his desires.
The title character dismisses him because he never *sees* her.
He is only aware of her image and his need -just as he might lust for a painting or a drink of water.
There is little sense that Humbert would love young Dolores at age sixty or if she lost her beauty and vitality.
Lolita,as an independent person,is pretty well erased until we see little more than her insistence on seeing others in terms of her own needs.
The protagonist sees a way of regaining the sweetheart he lost to typhus.
His "Dolly" wants escape from the tedium of being a child and "belonging" to adults.)
To create a sick relationship of any type,one must first exclude God then ignore the other people involved and disregard every suggestion that they are individuals with their own thoughts and feelings.
All of Man's mistakes may come from this desire to put everyone and everything in a prop box for the life he wants to stage,script and direct himself.
We may find ourselves very startled and inconvenienced,indeed,when the world starts improvising instead of following our plans for how our futures are supposed to play out.
Unique-Lies,
In reference to #1 above I do not think you will find it in the KJV. You might have read it in someone's book or commentary attempt in the 70's.
In reference to #2 I somehow still can not understand you thoughts and definitions of condemning someone. Again I ask how many times do I have to say that I only condemn the sin and not the sinner? If there is any thing to describe how I feel about the homosexual himself it is sorrow. I fell sorry for how they each have been deceived. I fell even more sorrow for the individuals who claim to be Christians that help with the deception by giving acceptance to the sin in any form or fashion.
As far as your remark about the issue being about California. I must have forgot while I was reading your post. Unless Melchisedec is in California now I think maybe we all forgot the subject matter. I do however enjoy all your post and have learned much from them, especially on your perception of Revelation and the "sleep".
Your explanation of Mark 9:38-41 might be accurate but I do not see it as saying... "This tells us that even a person who isn't a born again christian can lay hands on and heal and cast out demons." and "It even proves what Jesus meant when he said many will say I cast out demons and healed people and Jesus will say I don't know you."
None of the disciples were what I believe you are calling "born again Christians" at that point of time when they said this to Jesus. He was still in route to the cross when this was said. The word Christian was not used until years later at Antioch.
The ones that Jesus does not acknowledge that you reference are not these. I believe He was referring to the self righteous that thought their works earned them a relationship with Him. They never had a need for Jesus since they were working self righteous and therefore never developed a relationship with Him. They never knew or needed Him and failed to know Him for what he was. If He knew not them, they knew not Him. They were workers of iniquity. They were relying on their works. They were working, but not toward Him as a needed Savior. They did not see a need to be saved. They thought they deserved it in this teaching lesson of His.
quantumcat,
I have a hard time understandin ya sumtimes. Are you saying yore for or gainst ole Bessy entering into a union with her man? She loves him to.
And theyre tared of hidin behind those doars.
Unique-Lies & parkerbrothers
My take on Mark 9:38-40
Jesus had his apostles and deciples. I think it was one of the deciples.And the apostles thought they were the only ones who could do these things.
I agree with pb about the Lord saying (I NEVER KNEW YOU).I think they are false prophets.
sand-flea,
Unfortunately I have not seen the laying on of hands and a healing. As I said lately I am not saying they are not happening, only that I think they are the exception today as much as they were the purpose of that time.
Maybe this subject is much like uniques new explanations of Revelation and the "sleep" to me because I had heard different for years upon years. I have to say that no one has proven him wrong on this "sleep" and most of what I read now I better understand and see since reading his post. It does take time time however to work out of you what has been worked in.
The thing that puzzles me is why I have not run into one of the gifted at a hospital or somewhere. Why are they not out using their gift to heal the sick? They would not have to travel far to find the most willing to believe and in dire needs of healing.
I read all the chapters of the verses you had mentioned earlier but did not come away with the belief that many of these gifts had not ceased for a period of time. At least not in their frequency of being displayed to man.
I have heard with my own ears what was told to me was "speaking in tongues". It was not however what I had read about in the Bible. The actual gift of speaking in tongues I have read about is for a sign for unbelievers. It is a controllable tongue since Paul said not to use the gift if there was not an interpretor with you and it was to be done in order. What I saw was uncontrollable charismatic chaos. Everyone was "speaking in tongues" at the same time and no interpretor to be found.
My belief in the gift of tongues is different than what I have seen or witnessed because I had an understanding that was derived from what I had read in the Bible about it and it differed from the visual.
If I had the gift of tongues I think I would be able to speak in an unknown tongue to me what was a known tongue to the unbeliever. I have never studied the Chinese language. If I became enabled by gift to speak the gospel in Chinese to a person who was of that tongue and he knew I was an American and knew that I had never spoke his tongue it would be a sign for him as an unbeliever to believe. It was needed during the aposolic dispensation for a purpose. I have always been taught that these gifts were to cease for a season.
Again, I am not saying they do not occur today. I only say that I have not witnessed these things for myself that agreed with the teaching of the Bible. I am a human though and can be wrong and/or dislead about these matters. I may be building on the Foundation with hay or stubble but I know I have the correct Foundation on the footing. Only the gift of Charity will withstand all time.
Let me know what you have personally seen or done and explain to me why this gift is not being used in places it is needed as we speak.
sand-flea,
I agree with what you said above on Mark 9:38-40 about the apostles and disciples and it was probably the apostles thinking they should be the only ones in this elite group with "priviledges" as they thought.
The other part of the comment I thought came out of Luke about (I NEVER KNEW YOU). I thought it was more of a parable or teaching from Christ. I too think they were "false" prophets and never come to actually know Him as what He was as a Savior. They probably never saw themselves as sinners. They probably saw themselves as saviors and were focused on their works to the point He slipped right by them and they never knew Him. He would not have known them if they did not know Him. He was the Savior. They were the sinner. They never knew him as Savior and never knew themselves to be sinners. They were "workers" of iniquity.
parkerbrothers
> In reference to #1 above I do not think you will find it in the KJV. You might have read it in someone's book or commentary attempt in the 70's.
>> Your right. I wouldn't know the difference between the KJV Bible and someone's book or commentary, especially since I have always read several different Bibles at the same time to make sure I know what I am reading. Believe me, it's hidden in the KJV somewhere.
> In reference to #2 I somehow still can not understand you thoughts and definitions of condemning someone. Again I ask how many times do I have to say that I only condemn the sin and not the sinner?
>> You can condemn the sin all you want to but it's senseless because it is the law and the law makes us sin. It is the sinner who is condemned by God and must repent not the sin.
> I fell even more sorrow for the individuals who claim to be Christians that help with the deception by giving acceptance to the sin in any form or fashion.
>> I have more important things to worry about than someone who wants to sin wilfully and is never going to be forgiven by God. You can waste your time on them all you like, but don't look for them to come running to you for saving.
> As far as your remark about the issue being about California. I must have forgot while I was reading your post. Unless Melchisedec is in California now I think maybe we all forgot the subject matter.
>> Not sure what this is all about. I must have mentioned something about Melchisedec in the wrong blog. BTW If you get around to reading my post about Melchisedec, you will find that he is (in a way) in california now also.
> Your explanation of Mark 9:38-41 might be accurate but I do not see it as saying... "This tells us that even a person who isn't a born again christian can lay hands on and heal and cast out demons."
>> Anyone who has the faith the size of a mustard seed can do anything they believe they can do! That includes walking on water or raising the dead. I admit I don't have that kind of Faith but I believe what the Bible says.
"Criss Angel" is a good example of what someone can do who has Faith and Believes they can do it.
Criss Angel is not a born again Christian that I know of. In fact, he is a "Magician" that God despises.
> and "It even proves what Jesus meant when he said many will say I cast out demons and healed people and Jesus will say I don't know you."
>> Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Does this not say that many will do miracles without being "Born Again Christians"?
> None of the disciples were what I believe you are calling "born again Christians" at that point of time when they said this to Jesus. He was still in route to the cross when this was said. The word Christian was not used until years later at Antioch.
>> that answer was in reply to Paul chewing Peter out. At that time the Holy Ghost had descended upon them and Jesus had ascended into heaven by then.
> The ones that Jesus does not acknowledge that you reference are not these...They were workers of iniquity. They were relying on their works.
>> You just described the man who was casting devils out of someone and the disciples told him to stop. This also speaks of several people who are not Born Again Christians but applies to so many people.
parkerbrothers
I don't why those with the gift of healing are not going out to heal people.I don't feel i have that gift, although i have prayed for people to be healed and they have been.With me it's not a gift that i have that happens on demand.I am usually with a group of people praying a the same time.Their are people that have healing ministeries.I am so dissappointed with them,because they all seem to be profitting by it.
First of all speaking in tongues is the evidence of recieving the Holy Ghost.Some people don't believe that,I'll give you scripture on that tomorrow.Yes it's what you said about tongues also.But look in 1 COR 15:28 it also says to not speek out in church if there is no interpreter let him speak to himself and God.This is what they call a prayer language,where what is said is between you and God.That is probably what you heard at that place.I have been in services when the Holy Ghost has spoken through someone.Their is a quite Holy reverence that comes over the congragation(you could hear a pin drop)someone speaks in tongues and someone else iterprets.Yes their are times when it seems like everyone is speaking in tongues and its mass confusion its just that they are using their prayer language.
It is also in Matt 7 :21-23
I don't know what church you go to,but their are churches that do teach, and believe in healing and speaking in tongues.These are gifts from God just like salvation is a gift.These gifts are for the church to help each other, and to show the world that christians have power too,to the edification of the church, and show the glory of God
sand-flea
> Mark 9:38 "Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
>> Here we see that it was "one man" that the disciples didn't know. The disciples thought that they were the only ones who could do these miracles besides Jesus. (doesn't that prove that anyone can do miracles like laying on of hands without being filled with the Holy Spirit or being boarn again?)
>>39 "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us.
(This doesn't sound like a false prophet to me or God wouldn't say what He did in verse 39. The man wasn't born again because Jesus hadn't been crucified yet and he wasn't a false prophet or an unforgiveable sinner.)
>>I agree with pb about the Lord saying (I NEVER KNEW YOU).I think they are false prophets.
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These verses explain themselves. Many people will do miracles but not get to go to heaven because they didn't do the will of God. Miricales and casting out demons are gifts, but can be performed by many who don't do God's will.
The whole subject was.... anyone can do these miracles if they only believe they can. I was making a point to Parkerbroothers and he wanted more proof as to what I was saying and probably doesn't even remember what we were talking about.
Glad you understood my explaination of who Melchisedec was. I put it on my temporary website: Unique-Lies.com
>> Your right. I wouldn't know the difference between the KJV Bible and someone's book or commentary, especially since I have always read several different Bibles at the same time to make sure I know what I am reading. Believe me, it's hidden in the KJV somewhere.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 11:24 PM
You know the difference. I still believe you will not find a scripture that supports your previous claim that I will be denied to the Father because I did not lay hands on people and heal them. I think instead you will find evidence that not all were even given these gifts in their entirety or even individually in some cases. Is this the willful sin that you have talked about committing that You believe will cause You to go to Hell as You claimed You were going earlier? I believe the blood is a little stronger than that. I am placing my trust in the faith of Christ, not my faith. My faith is weak, his is strong.
>> You can condemn the sin all you want to but it's senseless because it is the law and the law makes us sin. It is the sinner who is condemned by God and must repent not the sin.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 11:24 PM
I do not believe the law "makes" us sin. I believe it shows us our sin but I do not think it "makes" us sin. I believe the law is our schoolmaster that leads us to see a need for a Savior who fulfilled the Law. This law is what got nailed to the cross.
I agree that it is the sinner that must repent and not the sin. However, that is why you have to condemn the sin as being what it is. It is a sin. The sooner someone realizes that it is a sin the sooner they thus realize they are a sinner. Jesus came to save the sinner, not the righteous. There are none righteous, no not one. So did he come to save everyone as some believe? No, he came to save the sinner. Well, we were all sinners? No, the difference was some knew they were sinners and some never did accept that fact. That is what He was talking about. Remember the two in the temple praying? One knew he was a sinner and one did not. Which did Jesus say was justified? Remember the two thieves on the cross? One knew he was a sinner and one did not. Which one did Jesus say would be with Him in Paradise?
The plan of salvation is a simple plan. We have to realize we are sinners in Gods eyes, God has a wrath for sin, God has a love for the sinner and God has a provided a redemption for the sinner. It is His plan however and the Potter has the right to determine the plan for the Pot.
Being puffed up with knowledge can blind you to the simplicity, especially if it has Pride served with it. Jesus condemned the most learned and religous people of His earthly life. None were more religous and learned than the scribes and Pharisees. They knew so much but saw so little. Their needed Savior stood in front of them eye to eye and they never saw Him. Why? They thought they knew how to save themselves. Why would they look for something they thought they had. Do you search for something when you see it in your hands? Knowledge with pride is a dangerous thing.
>> I have more important things to worry about than someone who wants to sin wilfully and is never going to be forgiven by God. You can waste your time on them all you like, but don't look for them to come running to you for saving.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 11:24 PM
I do not desire them to run to me for salvation. I can not save anyone from the wrath to come. I am desirous of seeing them run to the only Savior. When shall they run? When they finally accept they are sinners and need to run. When shall they see they are sinners? When they are convincingly told they are sinners. When will they be told they are sinners?????? ........
They had to have an idea it was sin when they were behind the closet door. But what happened? They sought acceptance and were given it and ran out of the closet straight into the arms of Satan. Did you help them out of the closet??
>> Not sure what this is all about. I must have mentioned something about Melchisedec in the wrong blog. BTW If you get around to reading my post about in california now also., you will find that he is (in a way) in california now also.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 11:24 PM
You mentioned Him in this blog. The one you said I strayed off the subject of. I was just reminding you if I strayed I had followed you.
Yes, (in a way) as you said, Melchisedec is in California now also. I think Melchisedec was in California before there was a California.
>> Anyone who has the faith the size of a mustard seed can do anything they believe they can do! That includes walking on water or raising the dead. I admit I don't have that kind of Faith but I believe what the Bible says.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, May 19, 2008, at 11:24 PM
Yes, I agree with that. Few have had or will have that kind of Faith. Ours is a dim faith that is not clearly seen now. I neither have that kind of faith. It is a gift. If I relied on my faith I would be not have much to depend on. That is why my trust in the Faith of Christ.