Or do you like this one better?

Were is The Chruch of Living Water ??How long did you have to go before you got this Credential? You know that you do not have to prove anything to anybody if you know for sure that it is all good and true....

michaebell...I must say I learn alot from your blog...I guess I have stayed in the old school about God...I just see him as one and he loves all of us...No matter what...Kind of like us Mom's and Dad's no matter what our children do or who they become we will always love them no matter what...

we all have the freedom to choose what we wan't,or believe or not.get off his back man!

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5953/...

Thanks to Robert.

OH MY...I went to the site of The Chruch of The Living Water....Anyone can get this...He does not take phone calls because he has a hearing Impearment...It almost sounds like one of those cults....Oh my goodness,,,I guess now you can get anything on line..That means my handicapp daughter could get one of these too because she is a wizz on a computer...I feel this is not good...But that is only how I feel...I never knew you could do something like this on the computer...A killer or a sex nut or anyone can get on of these....

Ok, this discussion is getting nasty and several people who are criticizing Michael's beliefs and credentials are not acting in a christian-like manner themselves.

Step back and breath for a moment . . . if you dont attend his church or believe in his views then it shouldnt matter to you if he has been properly ordained or not or where his certificate came from.

jaxspike, I think you hit the nail on the head. It doesn't appear that Michael has lied about where he got his credentials. They are certainly not what I would accept as a legitimate pastorial credential but he put the source out for everyone to see. I think he may be the only one deceived. It seems to me that a lot of the comments here are driping with self-righteousness.

If the church members feel that way then they need to tell me.

I know several pastors and preachers and evangelist who have not attended college and don't even have any credentials and they are called or call themselves pastors.

To marry a couple in Tenn. all you have to be a lover of souls.

Marriage is a civil contract so whether the pastor or whoever are ordained or not does not matter.

This proves my point I could have a phd or whatever letters you wanted and you still would not care.

It is simple if you don't like what I write don't read it!

If there is someone at my church that has a problem with me then they need to be man or woman enough to confront me instead of the hear say.

My views are mine I did not say they were of Lighthouse church or Pastor Jay or anybody else.

If a man walks up to me and introduces himself as a pastor or preacher or whatever position he does in God's Kingdom , what does credentials matter?

I have to agree with Michael . . . the pastor at my old church didn't have a degree or certificate of any kind but he seemed to know what he is talking about and preached God's word from the Bible. I don't think God is hung up on his word and message being delivered only by men who are sanctioned or certified by other men. The Bible is the only information one needs and if you follow that then that is what matters most.

I disagree with Michael about many things but to call him out on such a frivolous issue as this is just petty. We have gone from having a civil discussion to name calling and calling people out just because you disagree with an opinion. Come on people, let's quit being childish here. If you disagree with Michael's opinion then that is fine, but let's not sit here and try to assassinate his character.

Uh.... The point is, don't be self-righteous and then let us find out your piece of paper came from California, which of all places now allows gay marriage. LOL.

-- Posted by nascarfanatic on Tue, Jun 3, 2008, at 10:21 AM

nascarfanatic,

Let me take back what I said about you possibly having a certificate or degree. I know you do not have one now when I read the above post.

Michael being self-righteous?

How can you say a man is self righteous when he has consistantly told you he was a sinner and who his Savior is and who your needed Savior is?

Do you need someone to carry you back to Salvation 101 and include some basic definitions for you starting with self-righteous?

Correction: This was supposed to say,

"Now if any man, monkey and even my now ordained dog,"

parkerbrothers,

Michael claimed he was ordained and accredited. I asked him to show me. Now if any man, monkey and even my is now ordained, doesn't that just cheapen the entirety of what he claimed?-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Tue, Jun 3, 2008, at 1:57 PM

Evil Monkey,

It only cheapens the value of a certificate which I think he showed you quite well. I hate to say it but I seen you were fixing to step into that one yesterday.

You asked for it.

You got it.

And you did not have to knock on doors.

Monkey, you got mail.

The Word he claims still stands firm and will forever and cuts to the soul.

Evil Monkey,

Michael never said it took a piece of paper to preach. You did by requesting it from him.

You originally told him not to call himself a pastor.

He asked you if it was a piece of paper or a desire to preach the Word of God that makes someone a pastor.

You wanted to see his credentials.

He told you to come by and he would show you what YOU and the world are looking for.

He showed you how easy it was to have what YOU wanted as proof.

You then showed us how easy it was to have the kind of proof YOU need to believe.

Michael understands the Call of God is not getting an acceptance letter to a college where you can get you a little piece of paper showing where you spent your money.

He does not need a certificate for me to understand what he is saying and neither would you if you would only stop trying to prevent the spread of the Gospel.

What is calling you to do as you do?

Evil monkey,

Would yellow stationary make his message any easier to swallow for you?

parkerbrothers,

By the amount of comments are you just merely grasping to regain some dignity.

He specifically said He was ordained and certified. Really, this is just plain pitiful. You actually have to consider this was some elaborate scheme to dupe me? LOL really? How was I duped? I really am trying to see how you justify lying to someone about being ordained then after being found out, it was some OH big elaborate scheme against me. How Christian of you. C'mon now, you gotta do better than that.

Evil Monkey,

The best bird dog I ever had came with no papers. He could point a covey of quail from one side of a 100 acre field to the other.

The worst dog I ever had (and paid dearly for) had a pile of papers that was quite impressive. All he would point was a fresh baked biscuit early in the morning.

You wanted to see some papers and you got showed some papers.

Just remember papers don't point.

Sam sure could.

People thought he was lying until birds flew on the other side of the field.

YOU DON'T GET IT. MICHAEL is the one who says he had the papers... MICHAEL is the one claimed to be REALLY ordained, yet MICHAEL is the one who got the paper from the state of California, from an online site which can give a piece of paper to ANYONE who contacts them.

The point is, WE KNOW GOD DOESN'T REQUIRE PAPERS, but Michael (the Christian) had to go so far as to get a FAKE ONE, just to make PEOPLE happy. Get it? Good. Shut up.

Unfortunately nascarfanatic I only shut up when I want to. I say what I want, when I want, to who I want and about anything I want. Not when a coward types me to fulfill his wittle dream.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Tue, Jun 3, 2008, at 6:19 PM

Not even when someone lies... LOL, keep defending the Devil my friend. You're quite a comedian.

parkerbrothers,

Michael stated he had been ordained and he had papers, He said that awhile ago. I merely asked to see them. You can make all the excuses you want, but he lied. No matter which way you place it, he lied.

Marvin,I think we had clones of each others' dogs.

I had a dog whose mother was the best bird dog I'd ever heard of.

I wouldn't have been surprised if a covey of quail had spotted her and turned itself in.

Her son was a sweet boy but couldn't hunt for his ball (much less birds).

At the same time,we had a chihuahua/basset mix.

She had no training or fancy bloodlines but she would point and bring in birds larger than she was (mostly very bemused chickens) in her baby-soft mouth.

Often,we couldn't see her point in tall grass but we'd see a bird floating on top of the brush and know she was there under it.

If God wants sponges to think,mongrels to point and good ol' boys to preach,they'll do it and do it well.

If someone's calling lies elsewhere,all the study and certification in the world won't give them the ability or personal satisfaction.

But,there are things to be gained from going through channels and people need to make sure their mentors are both sincere and accurate in what they teach.

It's fine if a person gathers up study helps,test-drives the Bible Content ordination tests available online,takes classes (in person or otherwise) and learns at the feet of established clergy.

It's fine if they take pastoral counselling courses,study theology,learn how to manage a church or mission,etc.

But,what fruit have they born otherwise?

Not everyone is cut out to be the C E O of a congregation.

Not everyone has the eloquence or showmanship to wow people from the pulpit.

There aren't that many that can compose great treatises or write great commentaries or translations.

But,we can see how they performed as elders,deacons,Sunday School teachers or just as laity.

Whether we are licensed,ordained or not,people can look at us and see spiritual fruits-or religious nuts.

The proof of our anointing does not come from man or from whether we have taken on great responsibilities.

We are affirmed by how God works with us where we are,what doors He opens for us and whether we conform to His desires for our lives.

He can find His servants in seminaries or in service stations.

There are frauds and wannabees behind pulpits and true prophets hauling pallets,changing diapers or flipping burgers.

Let's look at whether a person is multiplying his talents and using them to enrich others before we declare that the currency he is spending is backed by true gold or is counterfeit.

What a waste of good money for ordering a certificate. I think I could print us all one on print shop. I am glad to know I do not need one of these to be a christian and get to heaven. Also, isn't sad someone feels they need this piece of lousy paper to prove something. It seems to me you are trying to prove something to the wrong person.

Evil Monkey,

Have you actually reviewed the material from these online studies. I briefly looked at the online today on the Living Waters website and was actually amazed and impressed. The first chapter lesson on "assurance of salvation" was quite interesting. I am actually going to print all the material to study in the next few months.

I am however aggravated at Michael myself now for not posting a link to that great online study site earlier. I believe if someone has studied the material and passed the online test they would be more knowledgeable that most pastors I have met.

What did you think of Lesson 6 Evil Monkey?

You did review the material did you not?

Or have you made a mockery of God's Word and a man who lives it?

What was your test scores pastor evil monkey?

LMAO... Hilarious. Like I told you, wonderful comedian!

Btw, I've met Michael personally he just has no clue. God has a STRANGE way of showing me the true character of someone outside of their realm. I'll just tell you from FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE he is not the Christian he claims to be, and this conclusion comes from meeting him in person not a foregone thought...

But, that's what makes all of this funny. You make mockeries of everything, spout off childish little names at bloggers, whom you could potentially be a witness to, but instead you bolster your own self esteem and defend a man whom you don't even know. Luckily I don't really KNOW Michael, but having met him and actually uncovered his ulterior motives proved all of my thoughts to be exact.

See, I question everything, and I believe whole-heartedly in God, and I don't just sit behind this screen thinking I know it all. I don't espouse hate and fear, nor would I condone it. But the irony of that day I met him, and he never knew who I was...

Evil Monkey...

I will probably get to that tomorrow... The kids are all sound asleep, and I'm sure you'd be making me laugh at this insanity labeled as "a Man of God"... So tomorrow would be better. If that's ok.

thas cool.

On his resume, Rev. John E. Miller, Jr., the pastor of The Church of Living Water received his degree from Cathedral University. LOL

Richard,

If anyone passed 70% of the questions of each test from the mind they would be a better person.

If YOU passed 70% of the question from the heart YOU would probably be a new man.

If YOU truly understood the answers to 70% of the question in your heart and mind YOU would not be so against the Word of God.

If YOU understood and believed 70% of the answers YOU would not be as Herod was with John and wanting a head on a charger. NLOL

i believe that some of these blogs bring out a lot of anger. michael is a christian and does not have to prove to anyone his credentials. a piece of paper does not make a good minister it is what comes from his heart which god has put it there. he believes in Jesus Christ and is just trying to spread his word.

Ok So lying, decieving is ok.. You people are really messed up in the head. Seriously, you guys need some therapy. I am seriously going to link this blog to some mental professionals.

jesse sellers,

Good to see another level headed person on here. Be thankful you see the truth as you do.

I have already stated it, I see you need your glasses. (grin)

Oh how soon you forget the lies and deceit thou has sown upon thy flock, Rev Bell.

--- Pastor Evil Monkey - Sermon excerpt dated 6-4-2008 at the Sermon on the blogfarts, Brought to you in conjunction of the Church of Simian Smite and Hellfire.

I already told you.

#1 I don't think I need to repeat myself over and over. You might like to do it, but I don't.

#2 You willfully subjugate to his crap, therefore you are just as guilty.

#3 Basically you sit on here, egging people on about stupid things like their avatar names. Really, it is pretty old.

#4 Michael is clearly a liar, any way you place it is he lied. Whether it be about the certs, the training, the accreditation, the rabbis, the buddist monks, even the possible anal-probing aliens... Rest assured that is when his homophobic fears arose...

Basically this is how ridiculous you guys are starting to sound, it is almost as good as the political crap that goes around in Washington. Next, all we need is Michael getting caught with a gigolo and we will finally have a full-blown media frenzy here in Shelbyville.

Contact me at 536-1279 and I will come, don't want to keep knocking on the doors looking for Michael Bell.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sun, Jun 1, 2008, at 9:10 PM

Evil Monkey'

Were you trying to be the gigolo?

parker

You've been busy today. Congratulations! I'll be on the sidelines with a towel and and iced cold lemonade.

I am seriously going to link this blog to some mental professionals.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Wed, Jun 4, 2008, at 9:49 AM

Evil Monkey,

I believe we can help them also.

David,

I think as I need to. You do need to loosen up.

Lie! you said you wanted credentials I showed you credentials, oh I get it their not ones you approve of are they?

Oh then again I forgot your not God either.

You just explain to me in your simian wisdom, what makes a pastor?

By the way Christ called people demonic, demon and Satan so don't get to offended.

Does a law degree make the lawyer ?

Does a medical degree make the doctor?

Does the badge make the cop?

In case your simian mind can't figure the answer out, it is no !

What makes the person is doing the job I Preach the word so I am a preacher.

A few friends study with me so I thought I better get the credentials before any legal issue came up.

I don't need them unless it is just for things to look at on the wall.

What makes me is whats inside, I have kept it bottled up for years because I stuttered I was scared.

I was prayed for and received "the spirit of Elijah" to speak in boldness.

The things I type I will speak also!

By the way Marvin I need to see your papers and see if they are legit for your profession and yours to Jesse!

I would hate to know that you did not have credentials that met Em AND NASCARS

criteria.

By the way I am not afraid to let people know who I am why don't we challenge EM and Nascar to reveal their selves.

michaelbell,

You bring up a good point on credentials. I remember the day I got my little contractors "license". I was taught a valuable lesson that day.

I sat in the pre test study session and watched an elderly gentleman get up and give the entire room a real education. He could barely read or write by his own admission. He ran a rather large successful construction company. He basically told the instructor where he could put his books at since he was walking out of the class and back to one of his jobs. He did not need a license to be a builder. He had built for 45 years without one and he had better things to do than being conned into thinking he needed a certificate. He informed the instructor that this license had about as much to do with being a contractor as Hell does with Heaven.

The instructor did say that the old man was right. He told the class that a kid fresh out of college who had never seen a hammer in his life had a 98% pass rate on the test. He told us that a seasoned veteran like we just saw walk out the door had less than a 40% pass rate. But if we wanted our license we had better get back to reviewing the material so we would know how to properly withhold taxes for our government properly.

Point being, a certificate(s) holds no value in my eye especially with a pastor. It is the words that proceed from his heart that catches my eye.

"By the way Christ called people demonic, demon and Satan so don't get to offended."

I know I am not demonic, so I am not offended, you on the other hand seem to be the one possessed,

"Does a law degree make the lawyer?" Yes.

"Does a medical degree make the doctor?"

Yes.

"Does the badge make the cop?"

Yes.

"A few friends study with me so I thought I better get the credentials before any legal issue came up."

So you do have a conscience, so you admittedly you need one for legal purposes?

"I was prayed for and received "the spirit of Elijah" to speak in boldness."

So, you want to conjure up spirits of the dead like a necromancer? Isn't that sorcery?

If you ask him for his credentials for being a general contractor, I believe Marvin would do so. And as for Jesse, if you asked him for his CDL and I am sure he can produce that.

Don't need to challenge me, I been pretty forthright in how someone can contact me. So before you try to place me in a posture you feel I am uncomfortable with meeting anyone face to face, you are so horribly wrong.

Now since you want to insult my intelligence, let's take at look at yours... nevermind... I can't seem to see any.

I know many "ordained" ministers unable to preach to word of God, including most that are on the TV, but I do know many a person very capable of preaching and teaching God's word without a piece of paper stating they can. As far as I'm concerned ordination is more of a legal issue when it comes to marriage and stuff like that. Several months ago I attempted to do some research on ordination for a question that came up in our sunday school class and found very little information on when ordination became the "norm" within Christianity. We can debate on here about pieces of paper till Christ comes back, but what we need to be doing is studying God's word and put some action to what we are learning.

Wrong, You need to become a lawyer, Go to school, be taught by someone more knowledgeable. AND you need to take a test to confirm what you know is true and continually improve your knowledge to keep your license.

So you are saying: To teach something that saves your eternal soul requires NOTHING. YET, you stated EDUCATED scholars deemed certain books not worthy of the Bible... So I am wondering how come certain things mean something only when it suits you?

For someone not quite evolved, it seems I can answer a question, Instead of continually call people names.

Unique-Lies,

I really enjoyed your comment, shows a new light regarding imposters, decievers and to abide in God's Word is to not Lie.

It doesn't matter either way, I never hid nor do I need to hide. But my reason for announcing who I am online is my choice, same way I kept yours. You knew I disagreed when someone posted your phone numbers. It was not just you calling the childish names it was also Michael.

He says I am demonic, stupid, etc. You feel that is very Christ like? I really have a hard time believing he is supposed to be a preacher, paster, rabbi, and who knows next week... It gets pretty weak and downright hard to resist questioning him.

Then when I question him, I am attacked. He actually said he was ordained, certified, and was going to a rabbi. What are we supposed to believe when we hear so much contradictions. It is the same way with your analogy, you state having a peice of paper doesn't make you a lawyer. Well in a court of law, it does.

Then you went on to say, "Being educated doesn't make you a pastor", but earlier, "you stated educated scholars decided what was deemed worthy to be placed in the bible." Now, you can't have it both ways, it is either one or the other.

This is what I am getting from Michael and you. For instance, we got him in a lie regarding the certification. But, in an attempt to save face, the idea arose and it was an elaborate scheme to deceive me into making some weird valid point that a piece of paper doesn't matter. Now the irony of this is, lying and/or deceiving someone is not very Christian sort of behavior, so how does that look to any outsiders wanting to know more?

Basically, it doesn't make any sense to do that. Really, it sounds downright "weaksauce".

I never said I would be a Rabbi I said I was studying with a Rabbi friend just ti study with him.FYI have given to non- profit and charities.

As far as I am concerned I applaud all the ones who go around the world to do work for God.

If you look out your back door there is a need here to.

To Richard: I have been preaching my whole life just not as boldly till now

Nice story, parkerbrothers. But which one of the characters in the story most accurately represents Michael Bell?

The seasoned veteran with 45 years of real experience? Not even close

The kid fresh out of college who has never picked up a hammer? closer, but no.

Posted by Richard on Thu, Jun 5, 2008, at 1:50 AM

Richard,

Michael would be best represented by the older man. Not because of his age but because of his wisdom of knowing the value of a piece of paper.

You would be best represented by the ones that would have a 98% pass rate and blindedly value your piece of paper.

He actually said he was ordained, certified, and was going to a rabbi friend.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Thu, Jun 5, 2008, at 12:13 AM

He posted his certification and ordainination for you.

He said he was studying with a rabbi.

Evil Monkey, I give you the same type advise I would have given Herod. Serve the guest roast ostrich instead of Head of Michael on the charger.

Actually, he is more like someone who takes a free online contractor's course, and then starts writing a blog telling others how to build houses.

Posted by Richard on Thu, Jun 5, 2008, at 1:50 AM

Richard,

The best builders I have ever met could not even read or write, let alone take an on-line coarse. They had the right kind of heart that made them the builder they were. They were deserious and driven to do what was right as best they knew how.

You put too much emphasis on a piece of paper. How many pieces of paper would Michael have to have hanging on a wall in order for you to determine where his heart lay? If his house was literally wallpapered with certificates would you use that to discern his message?

A mans' message proceeds out of the heart. Focus your eyes and ears on the heart and off the wall and you will see where God post and embeds his certifications.

You put too much emphasis on a piece of paper. - Posted by parkerbrothers on Thu, Jun 5, 2008, at 8:29 AM

MICHAEL put the emphasis on the paper IDIOT. If he wasn't concerned about the piece of paper he wouldn't have posted TWO BLOGS with TWO pieces of paper... He thought he was going to be funny with his ...."Just for you Evil Monkey..." and "Or do yo like this one better?" but they both turned him into a deceiver, much like the AntiChrist. So wake up, stop agreeing whole heartedly with your spouse every time he sticks his foot in his mouth... (Though it seems to be a sick fetish of yours)

parkerbrothers,

Regarding my past experiences mosting errorenous names, it was scheme to prove it doesn't matter who you are, only in the lies you tell. See you fell for it. You fell right into the trap! Sound familiar? Ridiculous eh?

You keep continually taking back to me, how it is MY fault to cause Michael Bell to lie. I, even, called you, I don't you my name, and where I lived, so if you feel the need to state my name, so be it. Because it would show you are the better man if you did post it. It would be so real Christian you are.

Then you still haven't seem to answer the fact that does it matter if someone is educated? You stated No, therefore, those educated scholars had no right to remove the books from the Bible. So you admit the Bible is incomplete, and not the True Word of God.

Michael,

Come on, you lied, plain and simple fact, you posted fake credentials. I asked to meet you, you got scared and posted it instead, Who is the coward? So you come on here, say you are a servant of God, preach hate, doomfire, and how everyone for not believing how you believe. Then you call people names, lie, decieve, fraud (you even admitted to that), and duck all the questions I have asked. Keep at it.

And I know it has his head spinning b/c he can not figure out who I am.

Posted by nascarfanatic on Thu, Jun 5, 2008, at 8:30 AM

Why not be a man and walk up and introduce yourself for who you are.

God is not the author of confusion and neither are his workers. Good luck on showing Him your works of head spinning.

"God is not the author of confusion and neither are his workers. Good luck on showing Him your works of head spinning."

So what Michael does is not confusing? He lies, the preaches about God... I find that confusing. He can't be both.

Evil Monkey,

You do not find his message confusing. Quite the opposite. You see it clearly and respond to it clearly.

His message is not confusing to you. It is just unacceptable to you. And that is a CHOICE of yours of which you are entitled to make.

His message is confusing if he preaches one thing and does the total opposite.

Right, so if Michael would post something fruitful, maybe it could grow into something that would be for the common goal. As it stands now, it is about how he cannot tell the truth. Now no-one knows what can you believe if someone claims he is from God and continually berates others that don't believe as he does. Yet commits some of the most heinous sins and uses more lies to try and cover it up.

Will do,amalphia!

A wise angel suggested looking at the religion-themed blogs some of the T-G's sister papers' run.

They have a much different feel from some of ours.

Maybe we could learn something from one another.

They have a much different feel from some of ours.

Posted by quantumcat on Thu, Jun 5, 2008, at 12:33 PM

If a person looked for more than 5 minutes today he could find one that felt just right for him and agreed with his feelings.

If feeling is the objective truth is lost.

Rare is it that both are sought and found.

It just is not in our inherited nature.

I honestly think it is a tad funny how, if we don't agree with something he says, then we should step back and calm down. BUT he can start this crap over and over and NOTHING is ever said. Sorry but this politically correct bull**** has got to stop. People should question this kind of talk, especially when he has no right to judge someone; unless he be judged. But all he has is excuses.

Parkerbrothers brought up an incident of me calling him out, and I apologized several times to the people affected. I went out of my way to call them up and tell them. Don't believe me? Ask them. I didn't lie, I didn't hide the fact that I messed up, instead I fessed up to it and took the scrutiny.

This guy sits here "claiming" he is a man of God, and he can't even admit his lie. Everything is always a big bunch of excuses, from how he can't believe there is other books of the Bible to what it means to lie, cheat and steal. Nothing pertains to Michael, he can sin all he wants and not have to answer for it. But he can call people out all he wants and when someone say, Hey, whats your problem? They get jumped on.

Really fair and Christ-like.

quantumcat,

The reason why you can't keep up with what this is all about is because parkerbrothers and Michael aways tries to twist the entire thing into a different meaning. The fact is, it was a lie, and to cover that up they lied about it being a lie. And if that isn't, in fact, a lie. They had to deceive me into thinking it was true to then tell me it was a lie to prove me wrong that a piece of paper doesn't mean a thing. Pretty twisted eh? Makes me want to be a follower of their Christ! WOOHOOO.

Like I said, it reminds me of the Donald Rumsfeld's known to be unknown speech.... Where the entire press corp was laughing at him during the speech because of how ridiculous it was.

I see truth and find fault on both sides.

The papers and rituals are no substitute for the truth they are supposed to represent.

There are doctors in this country who have the gifts necessary to do brain surgery but,because they have yet to get licenses and hospital affiliation in this country,they sell cars or work in restaurants or do dry-cleaning.

They have the skill and the will but no credentials to prove they are qualified to do such work.

Other folk may have a shingle out with half the alphabet after their name but no talent with a scalpel or no bedside manner.

Who,then, are the true doctors?

Parkerbrothers listed several instances in rebuttal to Evil Monkey.

I agree with them-especially in regard to marriage.

But,if some of the Bell girls' suitors declared that a marriage license wasn't necessary (or that their buddy who got his ordination as a pastor the same place he got to be a Jedi Knight was going to perform the ceremony) I think Pastor Mike would inform them they'd have to serve as his handymen for 14 years per daughter before he'd even let them spoon on the front porch.

I think he'd want to know if those young men were dismissive of the world's documents-or undervaluing his daughters.

That may be the crux of what this argument is about.

Is Michael guilty of trying to fool people into thinking he has competencies he lacks and then saying he doesn't have to prove he's capable-or,has he consistently and diligently sought to prepare himself to do the Lord's work but doesn't feel he has to justify himself to anyone but the one Person he couldn't hope to con anyway?

Is Michael guilty of trying to fool people into thinking he has competencies he lacks and then saying he doesn't have to prove he's capable-or,has he consistently and diligently sought to prepare himself to do the Lord's work but doesn't feel he has to justify himself to anyone but the one Person he couldn't hope to con anyway?

-- Posted by quantumcat on Thu, Jun 5, 2008, at 4:25 PM

The latter is the answer and he has provided it several times.

2) You basically state that anyone can practice law, be a gynocologist in their toolshed, and religiously practice circumscions without certification.

I want to see you go to a doctor in a back alley for some brain surgery.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Thu, Jun 5, 2008, at 1:16 PM

Wrong again monkey, wrong again. I did not state any of the above.

Perhaps you think the word you used..."basically"... is such a broad encompassing catch all that you can assert those things.

If so, then I "basically" think you might be smoking banana peels.

quantumcat,

When does marriage occur?

Real Christian-Like ... Must make Jesus real proud that you all are in his flock. As of this moment, and this day forth, I proclaim Christianity an absolute FRAUD and the living proof on this blog! Ladies and Gents, Welcome to you new lying Christian leaders of tommorrow. Michael tend to your flock. Wow simply wow.

Someone lies in front of 1000s of people, and you defend him like animals attacking anyone that questions him. Simply amazing to find out I was right from the beginning, Jesus died, never rose, and the Bible is a sham. Because this injustice would never have happened if he truly existed. What a lie. www.blogfarts.com/evilmonkey May the world know more.

confession? It is a fact. He lies, you lie, all christians must lie. Look at these blogs it must be true.

Simply amazing to find out I was right from the beginning, Jesus died, never rose, and the Bible is a sham.

Posted by Evil Monkey on Thu, Jun 5, 2008, at 8:40 PM

That is your confession of which you err greatly.

And Michael is in need of you to cover his and constantly change the subject so we can try to forget he lied.... I'll gladly take the Veil.

"Michael would be best represented by the older man. Not because of his age but because of his wisdom of knowing the value of a piece of paper."

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Thu, Jun 5, 2008, at 7:56 AM

So, was he showing wisdom when he spent $45.00 for a certificate that, as you stated, isn't worthy of being used as toilet paper? LOL

"To Richard: I have been preaching my whole life just not as boldly till now"

-- Posted by michaelbell on Thu, Jun 5, 2008, at 4:46 AM

That's interesting, because on another one of your blogs, you wrote this:

"I grew up and did the things all children do, was drug to church and hated every minute of it, quit going at 21 and lost faith completely until 25 when because of a young lady leaving I decided to get drunk, boy was I drunk.

The police said by all rights I should not have been walking much less driving, I was in the car but not driving , someone else was, my grandfather who had passed away a few years before was and still is my guardian angel.

I started seeking God again and going to different churches while still drinking, doing drugs and shacking up for almost 5 years."

So if you were doing all of those things, up until the age of about 30, then how have you been preaching your whole life? hmmmm.

I am a Christian. I believe man was and still is full of sin, from the days of Adam and Eve, and I believe God gave his son Jesus Christ (The Lamb of God)to die on the cross for our sins so that we may have a chance to live spiritually in a place where God has prepared for us. I believe Jesus Christ died, and rose again. Just like we too must die (physically) but through Christ rise again (spiritually).

I believe the bible was written, to tell of past histories of our fathers before us, and of God, and his son Jesus Christ. I believe the bible is written to tell us how we are suppose live (Keeping Gods Commandments), and to warn us of things to come past, present and future. I believe you can not read the bible with out asking God to clear your heart and mind, and ask him to give you understanding of what you are reading. (Let those that can hear, Hear; And those that can see, See). I believe in the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit that God sends to help guide us, fill us up with, and lift us spiritually when we are down or weary. I believe in prayer to my Heavenly Father, that God does hear and answers prayers even though it may not be what we wanted to know, hear, or have. I believe in repentance of sins to God and forgiveness of others. That we all sin (Thought, Word, or Deed) but that we can be forgiven of sin, because of Jesus Christ sacriffice on the cross for us.

I believe their are False prophets, and False teachers.

Richard,

A man preaches with his life every day. You will deliver a sermon today.

michael

I've read these posts and one question keeps comming to my mind.

If you are an upstanding member of a local assembly and the Lord has called you to preach why weren't you ordained in that church? The pastor would be there to help you through all the Bible studies etc!

-- Posted by sand-flea on Thu, Jun 5, 2008, at 4:52 PM

sand-flea, I don't know that you ever got a real response to this question. I wonder the same thing myself. Although I agree with the argument that certificates don't make anyone a competent messenger of the Word, I think there certainly are some ways of judging a person's competency in this calling and a person's church body should know and be able to guide him in this process.

I think, just like indigestion is sometimes mistaken for a heart attack, a calling to ministry might just be a false alarm usless properly diagnosed by a competent practioner.

Evil Monkey,

I think your frustration is presenting a rather large fib in your name.

If you truly felt there was no truth to God or His word,it's not likely you would be so incensed at the idea they could be abused.

Your pain and your anger are a direct result of your having a strong,visceral faith.

You and some of the others may not agree on certain things and the way beliefs have been stated,debated and defended has,for certain,generated more heat than light.

But,having met you,I know that your "secession" from God is either a bitter jest or a far bigger lie than any that has been referred to,so far.

I refuse to believe that you would surrender the truth you defend just because someone may have wanted folks to think he is further on his spiritual journey than he is.

Ignore the man behind the curtain.

If the straw man can do math,he has a brain-with or without a scroll from a doctor of thinkology.

Let the proof be in the pudding-not circular hissy fits.

If a seeker is derailed or a believer declares his faith null and void,who has profited?

Not anyone in the discussion and not anyone who looks here to see how those imbued with God's grace truly live.

Richard,

He can't answer without lying, no point in asking.

quantumcat,

My faith has waned, how can I believe when there is so much deceit?

Richard,

I wish I could just answer yes or no.

You just can not get a simple yes or no to a broad question as yours.

Tell me what your definition of wisdom is?

Tell me what your definition of worthless is?

Then I would have to ask you do you want a yes or no based on your definitions or mine or the man in question or the simple majority of Americans definition of which I would not know.

Perhaps the simpliest thing to do is answer you according to my definitions.

Did he show wisdom? Yes, I think he did. #1 - If the law of the land required some certificate then I think he was wise to comply with the law. #2 -If God put no value on the certificate then I think he was also wise in valuing the certificate the same way. #3 - I think he exemplified the same rational as Jesus did in paying tribute to Ceasar. He complied with the law of the land and simply looked in the mouth of a fish to get it as God provided.

Was the licence worthless? No, if it accomplished anything it had a worth and therefore could not be worthless. if the law of the land required one it has some value. Usually the law of the land is what determines the value of these licence and certificates. Most if not all are merely a means of the government knowing a level of information they want to obtain and the more information they need the harder it is to get the licence or permit.

I would bet that a gun permit will be a little harder to get than a licence to preach. I do not know that to be fact but made an assumption using a little common sence of which no certificate has been deemed necessary.(As of yet).

To sum it up Richard to me the certificate could be both.

If a governmental body does not require it now and God does not start requiring it in the future it is as valuable to me as the Sears and Roebuck magazines were in the outhouse at my Grandfathers house.

If a governmental agency does require it now or God issues a demand for one in the future I would value it rather heavily.

The value I assign to the certificate would only hinge on those two requirements only. However the value you, evil monkey, nascarfanatic or me assign to the certificate is irrelevant to the holder of the object. He has demonstrated he knows how to determine his own value of the certificate.

I think a lot of people want to have their definition of worthless and wisdom be used as the prevailing standard of which it can not be to the holder of the object. Beauty, worth, and value are predominately in the eyes of the beholder.

devan

No I haven't gotten an answer yet.

I do agree that a church body is a good endorsement and is one qualifying factor for the position of a pastor, to be ordained.I would have some reservations if his own assembly didn't support him.

parkerbrothers

Nothing personal; But I asked Michael the question.

parkerbrothers

Nothing personal; But I asked Michael the question.

-- Posted by sand-flea on Fri, Jun 6, 2008, at 8:26 PM

sand-flea

Nothing personal; But I was actually answering Richard. Sorry you thought you were the object of attention.

sand-flea

Or could it be unknown tongues have occurred?

michael

I've read these posts and one question keeps comming to my mind. If you are an upstanding member of a local assembly and the Lord has called you to preach why weren't you ordained in that church? The pastor would be there to help you through all the Bible studies etc!-- Posted by sand-flea on Thu, Jun 5, 2008, at 4:52 PM

"That's my question as well."

God wants us to "BUILD UP HIS KINGDOM" (NOT TEAR IT DOWN) We are suppose to be leading people, lost and wandering souls to God, not chesstizing and tearing them down, turning them away. This is against God. We are not suppose to Judge others, but we are not suppose to be fooled either.

The bible saids their are many that will preach, heal the sick, and do miraculous things in his name, but he did not send them, (They were not called by God to do so). Our body is Gods temple, and we are suppose to keep it clean. Everyone has instincts on what is right, and what is wrong. The Holy Spirit can guide you of right and wrong, It is up to us to accept it.

Evil Monkey, I understand what you are saying. I'm sad that we (The World) have been told so many different things, that confuse the truth of everything. You and I have talked on the phone, and I have told you what I think about these blogs. The bible tells their is Deceit, lies, False prophets, False Doctrines,etc. among the churches, ministers, christians etc.

No one born of flesh, Christans too is without sin. Their are those that claim to be of God and are only of themselves. Wanting to receive recognition of themselves, and not toward God. Those that quote things from the bible, to prove themselves right, instead of telling scriptures of the bible so that someone can actually learn.

Michael you may have good intent with your blogs that you post, But your blogs are of "Hostility, Division of people, and bring about anger and chaos". This "IS NOT CHRISTIANITY, and NOT OF GOD".

Pastors DO NOT preach a sermon, and then sit back and watch the church argue, and create anger among each other. "I am not Judging YOU". I am reading and hearing the chaos that is being brought from the WORDS YOU ARE Quoting/Posting on your blogs.

A pastor preaches Gods word, he is a vessel/messenger, and God guides him with what to preach. "Not what the preacher wants to preach/quote.

Veiwing your blogs, they sound more like quotes, and talk of doomsday; not as a message coming from God. The pastor is someone you should be able to ask a question about the bible, and he does not get upset, or will not answer. but explain somethings about the bible and what it is saying.

We can not play church, When God is present "Everybody listens". You need to pray for guidance, to turn this around, Are you really a pastor? Do you preach at the Lighthouse Church? Let's not play games when it comes to Gods' Business. Any time you are claiming to be doing work in the name of God then you are doing Gods' Business. Surely you would not lead people into a lie? And I am talking to and asking Michael Bell, not you parkerbrothers. Stop playing the doll and ventriloquist. Unless you yourself ARE Michael Bell. Not trying to be rude.

parkerbrothers

You appeared to be answering for Michael.I just wanted to hear from him.

-- Posted by sand-flea on Fri, Jun 6, 2008, at 10:07 PM

sand-flea,

It was quite clear who I was responding to. Richard asked me a question and I tried to answer him. I actually did not know you had even posted anything on here. I only get a few times a day to quickly read the post on here but I usually comprehend who is talking to whom. Again, no offense sand flea, I was not responding to anything you had said since I did not see you ask me anything.

I think you were guilty of assumming things like a lot of others.

parkerbrothers

I didn't assume anything.From the beginning you were answering for Michael.I wanted to hear his answer not yours.

Evil monkey,

Would you like to see my doctorate degree?

I am better than the brain surgeon you met in the back alley.(grin)(JK)

Hope you are feeling better.

To Richard:

Yeah I have preached my whole adult life but I was misleading myself thinking I could do whatever to whoever and whenever I wanted , why? because I was saved!

I don't preach hate not towards people who love Jesus Christ.

If you cannot see that I am trying to get the immoralities like abortion and homosexuality and drugs and porn and other filth called what it is which is sin , and you cannot continually do these things and be saved.

All these things are marching into our society and the Christian voice is being silenced and 99.9% of the Christians are doing nothing or saying nothing I am staying in that 1% group who will say and do something.

Whether it be these blogs or writing congress or signing petitions or whatever.

I am not perfect know , but I have come to realize that we all need the saving grace of Jesus Christ and when you truly know him and have the Holy Spirit in you.These things that I mentioned and others will no longer have no control over you.

People are playing the Christian once saved always saved game to much.

Can you loose your salvation no but who wants to be in the outer court looking into the Holy of Hollies.

That is like staring through a knothole to watch a ballgame or a restraunt window to watch somebody else eat a meal.

I want to get as close as I can.

Michael, you posted that you do not preach hate to those that love Jesus Christ. Is it not our jobs as Chistians to try to bring the word of salvation and love to those that do not know and are lost in sin? You are using Christ as a way of condoning your hate. Shame!!!! As it has been said countless times before hate the sin not the sinner, not the other way around. A true preacher is there to help make sure souls get saved!

This is rich, The manic poster and the wannabe Hagee show how Christians are not supposed to be. And now, I have never been so relieved, my burden has now lifting knowing heaven, hell, jesus, god are all but a mere fairytale.

Doesn't matter, at least, I am not a liar.

sand-flea

When you speak in Tongues, that isn't you choosing what to speak or what language to use. My understanding is that the Holy Spirit is doing the talking and you have no control over what is being said. You may be able to stop the speaking, but not control what is being said becasue it is from God.

"This is to ParkerBrothers"

You said:

Fact #9 - I never asnwered a post that was directed to another person by name.

(THAT IS NOT TRUE)

Posted by EM to jaxspike:

jaxspike, I gotta alot of respect for you, but it isn't about me asking for credentials, He stated he was studying, taking classes...... So am I wrong to insinuate that he should have some sort of papers when he stated he did?-Posted by Evil Monkey on Tue, Jun 3, 2008, at 5:23 PM.

(And then comes You to EM)

Evil Monkey, The best bird dog I ever had came with no papers. .-Posted by parkerbrothers on Tue, Jun 3, 2008, at 5:53 PM

(Here is anotherone)

Em said to Michael:

"By the way Christ called people demonic, demon and Saton so don't get to offended." I know I am not demonic, so I am not offended.... "A few friends study with me so I thought I better get the credentials before any legal issue came up."-Posted by Evil Monkey on Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 9:39 PM

(And here comes you to EM)

Evil Monkey, If I had to produce a piece of paper as credentials for you then I am not in need of working for you and you are in no need of me.-Posted by parkerbrothers on Wed, Jun 4, 2008, at 9:50 PM

>>>And their are many more<<<

Majority of the questions and comments are asked to, and directed to "MICHAEL BELL" but you keep jumping in starting arguments as a distraction, (NOT minding your business) and then Michael goes to a whole new blog. This has been (YOUR) pattern throughout many of Michaels past blogs. "No one was talking to you" "But maybe you want to be the center of attention YOUSELF". May be you will go and get a peice of paper claiming you are now "Doctor Parker"

You call yourself defending Michael, but you are actually stirring arguments further, keeping up the chaos.

If a contractor is being hired to do work, a client has A RIGHT to question his skills and ability, his licensing, and former clients. "THAT'S BUSINESS".

And if this contractor wants to get MAD because they question him, or he don't want to TELL of his licensing and allow the clients to check him out then he must have something to hide.

Michael calls himself a pastor, claims to be preaching to anyone who would listen. But those that listen hear, Personal Veiws directed to people by way of using the Bible. It is one thing to preach "GODS WORD" and it is another to preach "Your Word" by using the bible. Michaels blogs are centered around the same subjects "Homosexual, abortion, drugs, porn. In other words (SEX) and the end of times.

So people question his claim of being called to preach. He should be truthful upfront and open to poeple who are interested.

I'm not telling him to stop his studying to be a minister; He has a desire to preach Gods word, and maybe one day God will see him fit to do so. But first he needs to Let Go, and Let God. Not his way, Gods way. Not preaching his Issues, preaching Gods Issues. If these subjects are the only thing he feels God is telling him to preach on, then perhaps he needs to take SELF out of the box, and pray for a true message from God.

(Parkerbrothers Said):

You spoke 4 times without being asked anything. That's what the ventriloquist will do for the doll.

I do not have to be asked a question to make a statement, or ask a question myself. Out of the 4 times I posted, I never asked YOU a question, but yet you made a point to say something to me anyway. When I did say something to you, it was to tell you, "I'M NOT ASKING YOU, I'M ASKING MICHAEL BELL", but yet you respond anyway.

"Michael is the man, and you are the doll that sitteth upon Michaels lap. When any one asks something of Michael (the ventriloquist), you the "doll, dummy, puppet, or what ever you want to call yourself (doctor?)" would be the one to respond.

Momof3&3step&1gran,

All I can say is the proof is all posted above in which the figures were calculated. Put in in a spreadsheet yourself if need be.

The 3 questions you did however bring up can appear that I was answereing a question that someone asked to someone other than me. The timing of when one post is posted in its order will sometimes cause this to happen. I might answer a question or respond to a comment to me someone had been asking and if someone else post 2 or 3 post before I hit the send button theirs will appear in order right before my responce and can make it look like I was responding to them instead of a comment to me.

Case in point to you Momof3&3step&1gran:

You claim that I was answering a question with post number 31 to post number 30 that was from EM to Jaxspike and not minding my business. If you would do just a little more careful research you would easily see that I was responding to post number 29 which was from EM directly to me. Actually it was also a further clarification of post 20 - 29 between EM and myself on the issue of certificates.

As you may recall we have had this issue on here before. I believe it was uniquelies who condemned me for posting the actual post I was responding to everytime I answered one. You may also recall that I told him he had not been on here long enough to see the reason behind my added clarification everytime but he would learn in time.

Uniquelies,

I hope you now see what I was referring to about 2 months ago??? I was just trying to prevent something like this from happening again.

sand-flea,

Michael has about 15 minutes invested in his "ordainment", he doesn't study, he copies and pastes from other websites. If you notice in his blogs, each "fragmented sentence/paragraph" contains one passage from a site that has nothing to do with any other part of Michael's "thought-pattern".

Now, he stated several times he was ordained, he had credentials, studied with Rabbis, saw visions of grandeur, and heard voices. I really do not know where he gets his ideas, He states God's Will. I oppose that thought, I think he is after his Own Will. He reads other sites and gets wacko ideas about his own selfish needs to be a television evangelist and wants the money and fame that comes with it.

He stated in a previous blogs he had credentials, he denies that now. Yet, in this Blog there is a letter: http://www.t-g.com/blogs/michaelbell/ent....

This goes to show, he has been studying all his life? Seems to be some holes in the story, that paper? Can get it in less than 5 minutes. So what is the truth? Who is this man? How it stands now is that Michael Bell bears false witness and puppetbros is his harlot.

Evil Monkey

I do not agree with the method he used to get his ordination.

I read the site you posted,that explains a lot,I had never seen that one before.

Michael

Get out of the Old Testament of DEATH and move into the New Testament of LIFE,LOVE,COMPASSION,AND FORGIVENESS.

Sin and sinners will always be here,our job is to get people to see the saving love of Jesus.

Because if you knew anything about him you would not be making fun of his gifts.

Posted by sand-flea on Sat, Jun 7, 2008, at 5:54 PM

sand-flea,

I am not making fun of His temporary sign gifts that were for a specific purpose which is clearly stated in the Bible.

I am however calling into question charismatic gibberings being associated as replacing these temporary sign gifts.

I will follow up with the documentation as time allows. It is quite extensive and I need to type my old handnotes from when I had devoted time to this issue.

Evil Monkey,

I was just posting someting to a comment of sandfleas. You are right. It did not have anything to do with the topic you want to remain on. But you do have to realize how these blogs work and a lot of different discussions take place on here in relation to topics that have been mentioned earlier.

Is there anything else you wanted me to discuss with you since you felt I had deserted you on the topic. I felt like we have covered about as much as anyone could on certificates and such. But if you have any other thoughts just let me know.

Unique,

If you want an more up-to-date website, let me know I would like the opportunity to re-design your handyman site.

yeah I saw it awhile ago, yeah I know how to do all that, best thing i use is contact forms that use Capcha images. I know you have seen them, they have the alphanumerical image that people type in that spammers cannot see. You need not use CGI, use PHP, it is alot more secure.

You can still see by search engines if you use the techniques above. Just make sure your email address isn't listed on your site etc.

parkerbrothers

I know what you are talking about and I knew back then what you were talking about as far as copying and pasting everyones comments.

You answer so many blog comments that you have to, so you can keep track of the answers you give. I was only telling you how boring it was to keep reading the same blogs over and over again. Makes it harder to see where you are in the blog.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Jun 8, 2008, at 7:10 PM

Unique-Lies,

Glad to see you understood. But it looks like it is a no-win situation. You can not satisfy everyone.

Yes, they may get boring to look at when you copy the whole thing but at least there is clarity provided and I still think that is what is desired.

Anyway, I guess it is like I told you earlier. I should just post it the way I want to and if someone does not like it there is always the scroll bar function I recommended to you.

"I have seen sites where the pages consist of images that can't be clicked on. I am assuming that is what you are talking about."

Sorta, let me show you.

http://www.shelbyvillemainstreet.com/con...

EM

I'd have to do a lot of learning to use all that code. I don't long for this world much longer so I just play with what I know and can pick up easily. It's Hard to teach an old dog like me, new tricks.

Parkerbrothers,

You said:

Fact #9 - I never answered a post that was directed to another person by name.

(NOT TRUE)

(This is sandflea talking to EM and then to Michael, in which Michael never answers, because his Doll "YOU" do.)

Evil Monkey

I do not agree with the method he used to get his ordination. I read the site you posted,that explains a lot,I had never seen that one before.

Michael

Get out of the Old Testament of DEATH and move into the New Testament of LIFE,LOVE,COMPASSION,AND FORGIVENESS.

Sin and sinners will always be here,our job is to get people to see the saving love of Jesus.-- Posted by sand-flea on Sun, Jun 8, 2008, at 2:49 PM

(And here is you "Not minding your own business" "And you responding to remarks that were made to somebody else", that you claim you don't do.)

sand-flea,

Just curious. What is the Savior saving us from? Is there anything to be saved from?-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Sun, Jun 8, 2008, at 3:05 PM

I do not need, nor want a spread sheet. And your calculated figures does not have nothing to do with you responding to questions/remarks that are asked/directed to Michael Bell; But of course you "Just might be Michael Bell" posting through another phone line as parkerbrothers, so you can say things that Michael the Pastor should not say, or what ever. Which one is it? "The Ventriloquist" or "Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde". After all you did try to claim you are now a doctor. Maybe both of you are just schizophrenia

I am not the only one that notice, that you respond to "nearly ALL" of Michael Bells questions or comments, and Michael himself does not. Strange pattern. You can not respond for him before God, so you might as well let him learn how to respond now for himself. He wants to be a pastor, then let him respond on his own. "Will the REAL Michael Bell" stand up.

I am going to apologize to Michael, and parkerbrothers, what I have posted toward you two is ugly and does not feel right with my heart. This is the type of chaos these blogs bring. My pastor told me to stay off of this blog a while back, I did avoid them for a while, but then I visited some of the blogs posted that seemed unrelated to your normal blogs,

http://www.t-g.com/blogs/michaelbell/ent...

http://www.t-g.com/blogs/michaelbell/ent...

http://www.t-g.com/blogs/michaelbell/ent...

http://www.t-g.com/blogs/michaelbell/ent...

http://www.t-g.com/blogs/michaelbell/ent...

and that got me back looking at them all over again.

Michael good luck with your goals, and let me say, "God is Love" and your blogs need more of it. Parkerbrothers maybe you feel defensive to all the remarks to Michael, since you first took a stance to defend his agendas on these blogs; I don't know. It just seems like you respond throught the whole blog defending Michael against any negative comments or questions. Any way, I am sorry for carrying on these arguments; I do not like where all of this is going. God Bless All.

Momof3&3step&1gran,

I accept any apologies you feel neccessary and offer mine to any you feel needed.

I do want to say it is not Michael I feel a need to defend. It is the Word of God I feel for. I have never met the man (Michael)to my knowledge. Even though I have seen a couple of different pictures on here of him it is not his physical features that I would recognize if I saw him. It is his spirit and heart that I should recognize.

I will admit that I do agree with his message and methods of application.

I am convinced that someone can not become saved until they know what they are in need of being saved from.

Whether it be a mountain lion, grizzly bear, turbulent waters or the wrath and anger of God.

I am probably just backwards from the majority of people on here. I would feel foolish throwing someone a life jacket in the middle of WalMart parking lot.

Some on here think you need to tell someone of how firm the parking lot is at Walmart and how nice the breeze feels and the warmth of the beautiful day and then think you can then convince them they need to grab hold of the life jacket you are tossing them minutes later. I just fail to see the rationing behind that.

That is why I ask people on here "what is it that the Savior is saving from?" He can not be a Savior and have nothing to save people from. Can He?????

I personally wish God did not have a wrath toward sin. But He is the Potter and I am the clay pot. Who am I to tell Him how to make His pots and what He will do with them?

I personally feel that this Wrath and Anger is what John the Baptist was talking about when he asked the Pharisees "O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?" and Jesus spoke of when He said "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"

Momof3&3step&1gran when you try to discern something always look at the simple and clear things. If it is not simple and clear it is probably not of God. Look simply at how someone views God and His Son through His given Word to us. That will usually tell it all. Discern their word against the Word. If the Word says we have a living Savior we do. If the Word reveals a equally oppossing side of the love of God and shows He does have a wrath toward sin then write it on the wall. It is so.

I have learned more by studying the Wrath and Anger of God about Him as anything. I will always say you can never know the depth of His Love until you come to terms with the width of His Anger and Wrath.

The more intense I see the Wrath and Anger the more I see a greater Love and Grace of Him.

He did not just save me from a little something. He saved and spared me from a wrath that is immense! But no more immense is it that the Grace that fell. They equally and beautifully compliment one another.

Again apologies accepted and even more apologies given to you for my bluntness and abrasiveness. I just do not want to see anybody exposed to this wrath to come and do the best I can as I am lead. My intent is to harm noone.

I personally feel that this Wrath and Anger is what John the Baptist was talking about when he asked the Pharisees "O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?" and Jesus spoke of when He said "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"

Did you ever thing that is why God willed me to come here? Maybe I am John the Baptist's mentor and you and Michael Bell are the Pharisees?

Also Don't just study, Wrath and Anger. Study the WHOLE bible. You will see that people did sin in the old testament days, they had to make sacriffice of animals, etc. and ask God for forgiveness; and God did forgive. And he did make "NEW COVENANTS" with people he forgave.

In the New Testament days sin was so great man needed an ULTIMATE Sacriffice "THE LAMB OF GOD" which is "Jesus Christ" his Death on the Cross and then Ressurection that rose to heaven, was so that we may Die physically our sinful Body, And relive spiritually our spiritual body "Our Soul going to Heaven".

But,don't be afraid to tell people about how the slums and decay will be gone and sturdy homes and greenery will take their place.

Posted by Posted by quantumcat on Mon, Jun 9, 2008, at 2:24 PM

quantumcat,

That usually comes right after they get the life vest secured and fastened. You get to telling them too much while they are strapping it on and they may not get it properly buckled?

Sorry dude but your certificate means SNIT

My brother who calls himself an atheist, as a joke, found a website, took a test and now has a certificate on the wall that looks similar to this one and it's his biggest joke of all. I just don't buy it after reading things that have been said here and your buying right into it. A true man of god shouldn't feel the need to bow down and prove anything to anyone. And after looking at the events of the weekend the Parkers need to go looking for salvation in the proper places not this blog.

"it is something I can never loose" Really? So you can run over people and beat them senseless and that's just ok?

Wow...last I knew it is not our place to judge others. Only one can judge, as he is perfect, and that is God. Unless you are perfect, can walk on water, and do nothing wrong do not judge others. Who cares about a piece of paper, or anything else for that matter. That is his business not ours, and we all need to spend more time worrying about ourself, and making sure we are living as we should. After all is there anyone that has not made mistakes in their life. I am not saying he lied or did not lie, but what I am saying is IT IS NOT OUR PLACE TO JUDGE HIM!!!!

parkerbrothers, you said:

My salvation was given a while back and it is something I can never loose so why would I need to go anywhere to find it?

What does god's wrath and anger tell you about these verses?

Matthew 12:43-45

43 "When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none.

44 Then he says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.' And when he comes, he finds it empty, swept, and put in order.

45 Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So shall it also be with this wicked generation."

Who do you think these verses apply to?

They apply to any man who finds salvation then entangles himself in the world again. How would he get rid of 8 evil spirits after that?

http://www.t-g.com/story/1435689.html

Interesting... One "Christian" lies on multiple occasions this week and never admits to it, while the other "Christian" runs over someone, then proceeds to assault them, yet even if we don't know both sides of the story, there must be some justification for a thing Jesus would NEVER DO! (We'll never hear a sorry from someone who's ego is taller than Mt. Kilimanjaro, yet whose personality is as low as the Dead Sea)

This is simply God showing through in more ways than one. Michael, why don't you write a blog about this? I suppose the homosexuals who aren't harming ANYONE are much easier targets than people like Marvin who physically assault fellow human beings...

Retribution huh? This is not people seeking retribution, this is GOD showing us all REAL parkerbrothers and the REAL Michael Bell (remember, God doesn't like lukewarm Christians), ironically within the same 10 day period.

Yup.. the one who is saying, I told you so! Have a nice night Devan. You still never told all those folks in the other blog to behave like "Christians" ... Wonder Why?

sand-flea

Thank you! Maybe I'm not crazy after all! The last time I looked, I didn't find the book of Matthew in the book of Revelation.

The verses have nothing to do with a lost man returning to an empty house and bringing more lost people with him, like Parkerbros teaches.

The verses (Matthew 12:43-45)are talking about an evil spirit that was cast out of a man and came back and found that the same man had gone back to his earlier sins, but his shell was swept clean by Jesus so the evil spirit goes and get 7 more spirits worst than himself and moves back in making the man 7 times worse a sinner than before.

parkerbrothers

The house represents the Temple of God or your body.

You can not clean, sweep and put in order your temple yourself. Jesus does that when you accept him. Then the Holy Ghost comes in and lives inside of you. The evil spirit that Jesus cleaned out keeps coming back like it tells you in the Bible. If you go back to worldly ways or your old way of sinning, the Holy Ghost leaves and your house is empty but cleaned out. That is when the original devil returns with 7 move worse than he is.

To say anything else is to lie. It is written in the scriptures, so until you change the scriptures to read like you want them to read, that is what it means.

The Word of God should be stronger than our actions.

We're not here to confirm the validity of God.

He CHOOSES to affirm us.

If we don't always perform as we should,that should reflect on us-not Him.

(When we do well,it does show God in a better light.)

The finite nature of humans is why we should put our faith in God-not man.

We should admire the people who serve Him beause they do His will rather than respect God because we're fans of his workers.

Getting that order turned around is the equivalent of deciding that it is the sports figure's endorsement that gives the cereal/shoes/car/aftershave its worth instead of his contentment being a result of using a superior product.

If some athelete loses his prestige,that won't affect the worth of Gillete Foamy or Wheaties.

If we transgress (as humans always do),that doesn't change God.

Would you stop believing the law of gravity because a sinner talked about it?

Would you stop believing in justice or any other verity?

Believe in the truth enough to make it your own and not just a hand-me-down from someone else.

Believe in one another enough to know that no failing is beyond the grace of God.

Believe in one another enough to know that no failing is beyond the grace of God.

-- Posted by quantumcat on Thu, Jun 12, 2008, at 5:52 PM

Except one thing is missing... If you don't THINK you failed, how will God's grace show through an attitude of non remorse.

If you have your heart open to God,He'll open your eyes,too.

If you still think you're perfect after knowing Him,you'll get a pass just for being a few loaves and fishes shy of a miracle.

This is not the Holy Spirit I know and have a relationship with. The one that set up camp in me would not leave me empty to deal with the 7 new evil spirits and the original one.He would have held me tight and even if Satan himself would have led the posse of 8 I would still be safe and secure in his hand. My house would have only had the occupants of the Holy Spirit and myself.-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Fri, Jun 13, 2008, at 7:41 AM

Is this the same Holy Spirit you knew Saturday? Is that the kind of relationship you have with him? One that is prominent on these blogs, but fruitless elsewhere? Enough talk, Parkerbrothers... We know who you are now.

parkerbrothers

There is no partially reformed to it. When you accept Christ you are given the Holy Spirit "FREELY". That is one the Free Gifts when we accept Christ. Christ comes in cleand our your temple, then He baptises us with the Holy Spirit.This Holy Spirit takes away the desires to sin. A lot of people don't feel the Holy Spirit when they accept Christ, but the Holy Spirit is there. That is what makes them feel the things they do and put on that christian smile.

If they involve themselves with the desires and pleasures of the World, the Holy Spirit leaves because you can't worship God and walk with the devil.

You being a holy man don't have to worry about the Holy Spirit leaving your body. The Holy Spirit will prevent you from doing unGodly things, because it is written, the law is for the lawless not the righteous!

> If we however look closely at what was being said it can be seen that actually Jesus was referring to the same wicked generation that was asking him for a sign in the previous verse.

>> 38 Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, "Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you."

Actually Jesus was speaking about all generations but was speaking to that generation.

39 He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

When Jesus cast out demons, He would tell them to go and sin no more. Jesus had just removed the trash, cleaned out their house, swept it clean and put it in order. The demon keeps returning to the same person and if it finds the Temple unoccupied, it goes out and gets 7 more spirits worse than the first and moves in.

And the worse part about it is... the final condition of that man is worse than the first.

If we go up a few more verses Matthew 12:30 "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31 And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Here is your favorite:

33 "Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34 You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.

35 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

We all need to stop and think about these last scriptures. I know I have said some things I will have trouble explaining.

Unique-Lies,

As you know two people can get different messages from different teachings of Jesus. We have had this discussion before.

I have even sought through commentaries to find someone who sees this as you do and have not yet found one yet. I am sure someone has prepared a documentary or commentary with your belief. I would be glad to consider it but I think we are just going to have to see differently on it.

I am glad however that you changed your view on the "one more sin" theory you were propelling. Do not you feel better once you realized that just one sin after salvation was not going to send you to hell as you thought? That had to be a horrible and terrifying way to live life thinking Jesus would jump camp on you if you sinned once after salvation. To me that would be Hell on Earth?

I don't mean to sound overly flippant but I'm thinking about the comparison God makes between a husband and wife and Christ and His Church.

What is the Church but a collection of believers?

Does one unfortunate act by a married person end the marriage?

(If so,the singles bars are going to be full and the divorce courts empty.

"He left the seat up!" "She cut up my lucky shirt to stake her tomatoes!"

"No problem. Your marriage is terminated.")

Will an intruder enter a home where the strong man dwells?

Will the strong man leave his home so the marauders can take over?

(He's more apt to scare them away than be bound while they pillage or have them run Him off.)

Whatever His wife may have done,however many "invitations" she has given to the local killers,He is NOT going to abandon what is His.

The evil ones can just get used to His being around or they can have the house after He takes everything He has been given,everything He has made and everything He has purchased and moved out of their reach.

As long as His name is on the deed,He will live in that place and maintain it for as long as it stands.

The house will always require upkeep but it will not be taken over by vandals and it will not be condemned because He failed to keep it in good repair.

The lumber and bricks may someday fall apart but not until He has moved His household to a better place.

quantumcat

You're right as always! Shipping costs would end my project. I will have to form my boulders out of stucco. Don't ever let anyone tell you it hasn't been hard in this heat building a 4 foot block wall out of concrete blocks around it. I could only work while the shade was in the area. The open heart surgery I had two years ago doesn't help either, but a man has to do what a man has to do. I have learned to be patient and take my time.

If you're saying a trangressor can give up what he has,I agree.

If you say that the weak can have their place usurped,I agree.

If you say that God will not defend what is His,I suggest that you are mistaken.

The word says no man can serve two masters.

He won't serve eight mistresses either as long as there's a jealous wife around.

If the children bring their buddies over and trash the house,the party ends by removing the "guests" - not the kids.

When the pets attract fleas and ticks,they are given protection from vermin.

They aren't dropped off at the pound.

If we wouldn't forsake our homes at the first sign of trouble,God won't either.

There will be no foreclosure because God has sworn to pay all debts.

When we think we're running away from home,He has His eyes on us,he provides for us and he continues to declare us as dependents-even when we think we have more "freedom" trying to live by the wits we don't have than enjoying safety and comfort under our own roof.

Do our errant family members have the same benefits as those who never disobey?

No.

They aren't going to have the positions of trust the obedient have nor the privileges that go with them.

(Which kid gets the loan of the car-the one that fills the tank out of his own pocket or the one with six D.W.I's ? )

But,they all remain part of the clan because all rifts can be mended by Love.

Sharon22,

"I think we will all be up for a big suprise when that happens."

OH you better believe it. I think alot of people will be shocked.

When we think we're running away from home,He has His eyes on us,he provides for us and he continues to declare us as dependents-even when we think we have more "freedom" trying to live by the wits we don't have than enjoying safety and comfort under our own roof.

Posted by quantumcat on Fri, Jun 13, 2008, at 2:51 PM

quantumcat,

I liked the above post you made. It made me think of the prodical son. Our Heavenly Father is much like the prodical son's father. He watches for us and is there to welcome us when He sees us.

I disagree, Remember, its all doom and gloom... You are going to hell because you don't believe! Because if you believed you wouldn't be doing the things you do. It's funny, you say I am wrong, yet I don't do the stuff you do. I don't need to hire lawyers to bail me out, I don't place myself in positions or associate with people that will cause me to stumble. Instead I avoid them.

parkerbrothers

> I am glad however that you changed your view on the "one more willful sin" theory you were propelling. Do not you feel better once you realized that just one willful sin after salvation was not going to send you to hell as you thought? That had to be a horrible and terrifying way to live life thinking Jesus would jump camp on you if you sinned once willfully after salvation. To me that would be Hell on Earth?

>> I came here on Michael's blogs to warn everyone what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me over the past thirty years. I have been living a mundane life knowing I was going to hell. I kept reading the bible hoping I could find an answer to why!

I lied to everyone and stated that I now know that I am not going to hell, when in truth, everything I read points to yes I am!

I tried to out smart the Holy Spirit and convence everyone that the Holy Spirit was wrong in telling me that you can wilfully sin and go to hell after you have been born again, because no one wants to hear that kind of talk. Everyone was making excuses for me.

I came on here to explain what the Holy Spirit has explained to me and failed to do that. I can not continue to pretend everything is alright. Everyone has to believe what they feel in their hearts on this issue. I know what I feel has been told to me and have to stick with it or I am not doing the will of God.

Angels bring good news but prophets bring bad news. When I stand before the Lord I know what He is going to say to me. You and many others are convenced that I am a half ass teacher of Revelation and a doomsday preacher. If that is what I know and God wants me to reveal these things, then that is what my calling is and I am proud to be able to reveal anything that I do, because a few years ago I couldn't reveal anything. All of the people on these blogs have helped me to understand a few other things as well. I don't know anyone of you personally but think you are all a bunch of swell people who voice what you feel inside.

As everyone knows, I only have bad news, so I will take it to my grave with me. Everyone on these blogs needs to hear good news not disappointing and depressing news. I thank all of you for not taring and feathering me. Please Forgive me for lying to you by telling you I believed I still have salvation.

May the Holy Spirit reveal God's secrets to all of you.

"I just can not give your comments on salvation any merit when you have expressed your views of the Bible and Jesus as you have. I still after months have no idea how to evaluate a comment of yours when you can not give a reference to where you have a basis of comment from. I would like to be able to take them serious but you prevent it with no starting point."

Again, you say the same exact thing I say to you, Can you come up with any original? Reference? HAHA Nice try, can you reference your beliefs? Nope, didn't think so. My views are mine, and thats right, Mine! Not yours, because you are wrong, by your ACTIONS, you have proven it over and over. So to call me wrong? Prove it. Please do so, take parts of what I say, copy and paste them so you can comment on those bits. The thing is, everyone knows full well it was a sarcastic overtone. But since you feel compelled to keep bringing it up to justify how wrong you are in everyone way. Please do so again because it makes me chuckle.

HAHA Nice try, can you reference your beliefs? Nope, didn't think so.

Posted by Evil Monkey on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 11:54 AM

Wrong again Evil Monkey. I can and will reference my beliefs. My beliefs originate from the Bible of which I believe is the insprired, guided and protected Word of my God. I believe it was written by men who were inspired by God and evidenced it by giving their lives to and for it. I believe it presents God's plan of Salvation as He has so protected through time. I believe you are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves but of Him. I believe it is a gift of God. I believe Jesus is the Son of God and came to earth , was crucified, buried and rose on the third day. I believe He is alive and sitting at the Right Hand of God and is my Mediator as Satan stands accussing me. I believe in thanking God for the gift of Salvation.

Sorry it took a while Evil Monkey but now tell me about yours?

"Sorry it took a while Evil Monkey but now tell me about yours?"

Oh Mine? It wasn't driving car #4 on Saturday Night and ran over a man, then beating him senseless. LOL God how rich you come on here saying that crap and then asking where mine is....

I don't have the profess anything, that is what is great, people can view and see me by my ACTIONS, not mere words on a blog. Jesus didn't have to say anything, his actions is what made us believe. Again, you try to turn it around yet you cannot explain how you words can override you actions.

The Bible even says that, By your actions, people will follow. It does not say, By your words, people will follow. hehe keep it up, This is fun.

quantumcat,

Thanks for the understanding and compassion you seem to have for all. Time and truth will tell everything that needs to be said.

The Bible even says that, By your actions, people will follow. It does not say, By your words, people will follow. hehe keep it up, This is fun.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sat, Jun 14, 2008, at 9:51 PM

Evil Monkey,

Nothing is funny. Only sad. You give reference above to the Bible but defamate it most all other times. The Bible is not a fraud evil monkey.

You said earlier you did not have to make a profession and you are right, but realize you do make your profession with everything you say.

Until you come to terms and believe in the resurrection all is in vain. But I will continue and not give up on you as long as you seem to be searching.

Evil Monkey,

If I could put words in your mouth, they would be different than the ones you use to discredit the Bible and Jesus. I can not change or put words in your mouth. The mouth professes what is in the heart. I would have to change your heart in order to put words in your mouth and only a living Christ can do that. Until you realize he came out of that tomb, it is all in vain. I will continue with you though and not give up. All things are possible with God.

The mouth professes what is in the heart. I would have to change your heart in order to put words in your mouth and only a living Christ can do that.-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Sun, Jun 15, 2008, at 3:20 PM

If the mouth professes what is in the heart, what do actions profess, especially when the actions presented don't equate with the words spoken? Serious question...

...and Actions are actions while words are words. LOL GEESH. And like the sands of the hourglass...

Evil Monkey,

Hang in there.

But do look carefully at the sand in the hourglass and notice its position. A lot of sand has ran through it the last 2000 years. Actually almost all of it has.

I remember when the green-faced gal tried to frighten Dorothy Gale with a swiftly emptying hourglass.

I also remember when the devil tried to possess Marlena Evans and destroy all of Salem.

The bad guys never seem to notice that every grain of sand that falls brings them one second closer to their comeupance and the good folk one instant nearer to their deliverance and victory.

Let the enemy attempt to build his fortress on the shifting dunes remaining on top.

When his oversized eggtimer has completed its work,his domain will fall.

If the moments we have left are like grains of sand,let us use them to create clear and shining glass,spill grains of different color and texture to drypaint holy visions,reach out with them to caress the waves and comb patterns into them to bring tranquility and beauty.

The power of a Creator gives such sand a thousand exciting possibilities.

Our foe can think of no better use for our lifetimes than as filler for a litterbox.

You do not control the spice.

The spice controls you.

(Watch out for big worms and holler if your eyes turn solid blue.)

But the spice is mine! For I can control the worms.

quantumcat,

In response to your comment to EM:

Does oregano have the same effect as banana peels?

JK

Dunno,PB.

I know they smoke green and red peppers to make paprika.

Agreed.

I've thought that Michael might follow the example of people in the old days.

They met under a tree or in one another's homes or any place friends might gather and they had fellowship together.

They studied the Word.

If people felt like singing or playing,they did.

People took turns speaking as the Lord led and,many times,people came and went just as they might in their secular lives.

After a while,it might settle down to a core bunch of people with a set group of leaders.

These might take on projects or go on visitations or do mission trips.

The size,composition and permanence of the group would come from the dedication of its members.

If and when it evolved into a conventional church,it would have already proven itself as an active body of believers drawn to one another and the Word.

It might use a storefront or another congregation's facilities during off hours.

It wouldn't be a country club with stained glass windows nor a fan club for a popular minister.

Long before they had a cross on their roof,they had a living Savior in their hearts.

Long before they had boards and staff and a division for each ministry,they had people answering a call and just hanging around until someone stopped to listen to what God would have them say.

Those bands of worshippers may have been small and plain but they weren't dependent on bells and whistles,they weren't built around a cult of personality and they weren't at the mercy of a governing body.

They stood or fell based on their gifts and their committment.

If they answered the people's needs,they endured.

If they became the "Frozen Chozen",amused instead of enlightened or "played church" in order to create a powerbase for themselves,then they wouldn't prosper.

They didn't go out and make a church nor did any human agency give them one.

They were more like regular people hanging out and enjoying what mattered to them.

It was the sincere interest and the worth of the topic that drew in participants.

Call it the Holy Spirit or word of mouth but people came (and stayed) because it was 100% real and hands-on from the start.

If Michael just starts doing God's business,the simplest and most low-key acts will create a foundation for whatever is meant to come next.

Will Rogers started out doing rope tricks in his schoolyard,moved onto ranchwork,training horses,circus work and vaudeville.

That led to his comedy routine and subsequent stage,radio and screen work.

Rope tricks wouldn't have worked on radio and stand-up monologues wouldn't have fared well in silent films.

Rogers developed the skills and opportunities to be one of our most popular and influential figures by starting small and using whatever breaks came his way.

Who knows where our hidden gifts and dreams will take us?

(Only the One that put them there.)

Long before they had a cross on their roof,they had a living Savior in their hearts.

Posted by quantumcat on Wed, Jun 25, 2008, at 5:55 AM

That was as good as it gets.

Your welcome. Keep up the good work. You make me think and when you get to be an old poot like me you appreciate when someone can cause the mind to wake up a little. I hear mine snoring sometimes.

ricksings.

You have your beliefs and the knowledge (Matthew 13:10-13 ) that the Holy Spirit has given you. What value is a piece of paper when you know Jesus has chosen you from the beginning (2 Thessalonians 2:13), forgiven you and ordained (John 15:16,17) you?

If you are born again (John 3:3; 1 Peter 1:23), you have been Ordained by Christ. Much more valuable than a piece of paper from a man made (Galations 1:12) school or internet service!

Matthew 13:10-13

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

2 Thessalonians 2:13

13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

John 15:16,17

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

John 3:3

In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. "

1 Peter 1:23

For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Galations 1:12

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.