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Shelbyville, Tennessee ~ Friday, August 29, 2008
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Birthing Pains
Posted Monday, June 16, 2008, at 3:56 PM<< Previous | Read comments | Respond | Email link | Next >>
I remember when my wife went into labor how the pains started off gradually and then increased until they were almost unbearable.
I believe th Earth is going through birthing pains right now with all the weather and wars and what is on the way. The rampant immorality in the world and the people getting further away from God than ever before as in the following verses it is foretold . 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 24:8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows. 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not. 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 24:25 Behold, I have told you before. 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not. 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh: 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors. 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 24:41 Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 24:46 Blessed [is] that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 24:49 And shall begin to smite [his] fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and in an hour that he is not aware of, 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:3-51 KJV
But then again as my first of two babies let loose its first cry all the pain was gone in a split second and tears of sorrow turned to tears of joy. 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJV
When the trumpet sounds the pain for the elect will be gone.
Those left behind will suffer the worst tribulation ever seen.
Some will come to know the Lord during this time, but they will be martyred for their faith, but at least the pain will have ended. 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were], should be fulfilled. Revelation 6:9-11 KJV
Whether you believe the Word of God is Jesus or the Bible , I believe it is both.
There is no reason to go through this.
There is no sin or pain in the first two chapters of the Book of Genesis , man falls from grace and from there till the last two books of Revelation is God's plan of redemption.
The last two chapters of Revelation we find ourselves back to the beginning.
Just remember when birthing pains of childbirth gets intense you can get a shot of valium to ease it up.
Through these birthing pains of the End Times the only thing you can receive to ease the pain is Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit in you.
If you are at the CROSSROADS of life the decision is now, make the wise choice and choose Jesus! Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
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I like the part of Revelations where the world (as a woman in labor) looks at the devil (as a not-so-nice dragon) and,in,effect,tells him :
"You got me into this mess and you are NEVER touching me again!"
Unlike many a mother in a delivery room,this mama means what she says.
So long as Jesus is the birthing coach,the dragon will not be able to devour the princess.
It is far more likely he'll wind up as a purse,belt and new pair of shoes.
Quantumcat,
You have the best comments. Always witty. Never rude.Keep 'em coming
Thank you :)
I get frustrated by quantumcat's comments because they are not fluid . . . the stop and go sentences tend to drive me crazy and I guess it is because I am a speed reader and it is hard to do that when the sentences don't flow with each other.
BTW . . . I am not criticizing quantumcat. His/Her writing style is unique to his/her personality and what he/she feels comfortable with and that is no fault of her own and it really shouldn't matter that I don't like the style in which he/she writes. LOL!
I just had to comment because I normally don't read what she writes and evidently this person makes some valid points and statements.
Sad it is ;-( that the multitudes believe a heretical tradition regarding The One many, who say they are believers, seek to follow. He Who is "The Messiah, The Son of The Living GOD".
Seems there is undeniable proof that the traditional name of 'jesus' was not The Messiah's GOD given birth Name in any language! And proof exists in not just one, but all New Testament Greek manuscripts from which catholic and christian translators created their version of the "bibles"!
Yes, undeniable proof!
First, the Greek word "Iesous" was used by those who translated the Greek Septuagint, which was the Hebrew to Greek translation of the Old Testimonies.
In the Greek Septuagint, which was translated prior to the birth of The Messiah, the Greek word "Iesous" was used to represent "Joshua, son of Nun, so named by Moses". (Numbers 13:16)
And so it was established that the Greek name "Iesous" represented the Hebrew name YeHoWsHuwa'(translated as Joshua in the English language Old Testaments).
Then in most all the New Testament translations, from the various Greek manuscripts, the word "Iesous" was translated correctly as Joshua(Yehowshuwa') in both Acts 7:43 and Heb 4:8 and then the same Greek word "Iesous" was traditionally(for the past 500, or so, years)translated as their "imag"ined 'jesus' in all other places of the English language New Testaments ;-(
However, in the original kjv(aptly named as king james' version for it was of the church OF england) those who did the translating of the New Testament decided to rename Joshua and declared the Joshua of the Old Testament to be of the same name as their "imag"ined 'jesus' in both Acts 7:43 and Heb 4:8 ;-( At least the
translators of the kjv were consistent, yet the result of such consistency is confusion ;-(
And so it was that a heretical tradition was established less than 500 years past ;-(
Now if one wishes to take liberty and change the name of the Old Testament "Joshua" to 'jesus', well that is their choice, yet a sad choice indeed and Truth ;-(
And worse yet you could accept the traditional lie that the Greek word "Iesous" represents both "Joshua" and the catholic and christian 'jesus'. For those who seek The Light of Truth that is confusing at best! Another sad choice ;-(
I have been, and know that i will yet be accused of having my portion with the "sacred name folk" or some other similar religious group. And yet that is as far from Truth as one could be, for i believe that, "that which decayed and waxed old" did indeed and Truth "vanish away" with the destruction of the earthly, natural kingdom that was centered in old jerusalem.
The Kingdom of GOD is now Spiritual and the body of a believer is the Temple for the indwelling Spirit, The Spirit that leads believers on The Way to The Truth of The Life.
Sadly, many believe that a name is not important ;-( Now when a man makes such a statement to me i simply reply, "ok, if that's what you believe Martha", or if it be a woman, "ok, if that's what you believe George".......
Truth is important, for apart from Truth their is nothing but "confusion and every evil work" and Truth IS that the "imag"ined name of 'jesus' was not spoken for more than 1500 years after The Only True GOD raised The Messiah from among the dead! Truth IS that The Messiah's GOD given birth Name was YeHoWsHuwa'(Joshua in modern day English)!
Prior to that time there was no 'j' sound in the English language, which is verifiable in most any encyclopedia. And there never has been a 'j' sound in either Hebrew or Greek.
Seems the vain "imag"inations of the "catholic" and "christian" systems of religion have caused "The Way of Truth to be evil spoken of", so why continue to use their "imag"ined name for "The Son of Living GOD"?
And so it is i am sad for all yet held captive by the "strong delusion" that is their "imag"ined 'jesus' ;-(
Yet there is hope!
For Miracles do happen!
Hope is there would be those who would experience The Miracle that is receiving "a love of The Truth"!
Truth IS, Yehshua(Joshua in modern day english) is The Messiah, Immanuel, The Son of The Living GOD!
Peace, in spite of the dis-ease(no-peace) that is of this wicked world and it's systems of religion, for "the WHOLE world is under the control of the evil one"(1Jn5:19) indeed and Truth....... francisco
Thank you,jaxspike.
I've had to work on some of my other writing quirks that have been a hindrance.
Now,I'll try to make my sentences less erratic.
Specific,constructive criticism like yours and some others' can help me improve the way I communicate.
I appreciate your caring enough to state your mind.
quantumcat
It is different, I think it's also unique, I always know whos post I'm reading before I see the name at the bottom!
Like I said quantumcat . . . I think I was mostly criticzing myself for being so anal about your writing style but for some reason I just cant focus on the point of the comments because of the style of writing involved. I hate feeling that way but I guess that is the way I am just as the way you write is a reflection of you.
I have always been an impatient reader and read fairly fast and I guess I assume everyone should be on the same wavelength as me. :-P
No problem.
Your point is quite reasonable.
I'm much worse in regard to the websites that have 10 point white italic on a pale pink floral background,peach on ochre or charcoal lettering on black.
If I have to fiddle with my monitor or highlight the text to read it,I don't bother to read it no matter how good the content might be.
Quantumcat,
Just curious, do have a similiar speaking style? Your written thoughts suggest a very erudite, thoughtful person.
Thank you.
I've been told I'm similar in real life but I think I appear a bit brighter in print.
(I daresay I'd come across even smarter if I did a better job remembering to write my posts out elsewhere,edit them vigourously and then submit them.
I fear my chaotic style may come from my writing in a stream of conciousness rather than distilling my thoughts and sticking to an outline.)
I've hoped that the knowledge and mental acuity of some of our bloggers would rub off on me.
Maybe their influence is challenging me to think and express myself in a better fashion.
ElderChild
KEEP YOUR KNOWLEDGE COMING.
One thing life has taught me I have learned that I still have a lot to learn.
jesse sellers,
Only a wise man will recognize the truth you just said.
Hey Parker, always good to see you in print, been missing you.
Remember this one " don't go through life with two catcher's mitts on! You may need to throw something back at times."
It could be the definition of a wise person is someone who realizes he or she doesn't know all he might need to know and is ready to learn what is lacking.
Jesse,
Did you even read what he/she said? Do you even understand it? If so, it is basically poking holes in everything that you, pb and michael have said. Here... let me get some of that salt out of your eyes.
Yes monkey, I understand what Heretic means.
I also understand where "Iesous "come from. The writer may have knowledge that you and I don"t have.
Sorry my mean boss said it was time to leave home, but I will be back don"t worry.
"Kol Luv!"
Ok, so let me get this straight, if someone else pokes holes in your theories its ok. But if I do? I am the Anti-Christ. You guys are pretty messed up, glad you know what a heretic is... Do you know what one looks like? Don't need to walk far.
No Monkey I haven"t meet you face to face yet.
Witty, ain'tcha? Still doesn't answer the question as to why you make personal attacks continually against 1 person when you don't even understand what they say.
elderchild,
if what you say is true, and i havent checked into it yet, what reason would anyone have to change the name. i cannot see what the motive would be.
It may seem presumptious to change the name but look how many variations there are just for names like John and Mary.
I think our Lord looks on the heart.
IF we are truly seeking Him,He'll respond to Yeshua,Iesous,Jesus-withan-H-sound, Joshua,Yehoshuwa or anything that recalls that "Jehovah rescues" or "God preserves."
If we don't care about the One behind the Name,what we say of Him may fall on deaf ears.
He tends to be far less interested in style than in substance.
Hehe. I'm sooo witty, so so witty!!!
I believe the same quantumcat. Hebrew - Greek - English, they are all different languages, but we are still talking about our Lord and Savior, who died on the Cross for our sins, The son of our Heavenly Father-Our Creator-"The True & Living God". You say Tomatoe, and I say Tomata; but still referring to the same thing.
I generally say "'maters". ;)
But,you're right.
Whether we call Him by any of these names or Christ Emmanuel, He is who He is- Wonderful,Counsellor,the Mighty God,the Everlasting Father,the Prince of Peace.
He is the King of Kings,Lord of Lords and heir to the great I Am.
I heard once there were nine bilion names for God.
(I daresay we've come up with a few more since then.)
Think of the child who made this prayer:
"Our Father,who art in Heaven,Harold be thy name."
quantumcat.
You can not limit something that is everything to anybody to nothing.
I think God Himself said it best to Moses when He said:
14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
I AM is indeed everything.
Popeye said the same thing, your point?
Hehe. I'm sooo witty, so so witty!!!
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Wed, Jun 18, 2008, at 4:29 PM
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools
Let's not forget Matthew 5:22.
Is a jibe or jest worth demeaning a person's character?
"But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever shall say to his brother 'Raca,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever shall say, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the hell of fire."
We are not required to refrain from passing judgement on the Luts,Kesil,Ewil or Nabal.
We can recognize the simpleton.
God does deny us the pleasure of condemning another as worthless and irredeemable.
Let us be careful that banter does not degenerate into character assasination.
parkerbrothers,
LOL, just look at your posts and truly see who you call a fool.
Not saying anyone is wise or the fool. Just posted two quotes.
I can not tell if the shoe fits Cinderella? Seems there are assumptions that it might but that is always the case.
Weaseling you way out of another tight spot.... but always the weasel.
If the enemy ever starts imprisoning saints again,it would serve certain people right if they got cuffed together like Sidney Poitier and Tony Curtis in the Defiant Ones.
(Or even Esai Morales and Nia Peeples.)
Let's remember who the foe is and who is our teammate.
Let's remember who the foe is and who is our teammate.
-- Posted by quantumcat on Fri, Jun 20, 2008, at 1:10 PM
(sarcasm)But quantumcat, would that not require judging someone? You know we can not do that don't you?
(sarcasm again) Hey, I like throwing that ole word around too like everyone else.
No good judge makes up his mind before the workout is over.
quantumcat,
The issue is not on the timing of the judging but just judging itself.
shejudge,mejudge,himjudge,theyjudge,dojudge,dontjudge,willjudge,wontjudge,ijudge,youjudge.
Talking in tongues?
We make a judgement even when we express approval or offer assistance.
The problems arise with where we obtain our standards,how we apply them and whether or not we accept all persons as works-in-progress.
When we don't see a need to progress or decide that something or someone is beyond God's help,then our judgements offer no help in improving a person's condition.
We are also counter-productive when we ignore people's free will and ability to make sound choices that might be different from our own.
We need to acknowledge that our work with others involves at least three parties:us,the person in question and God.
We have the smallest stake and the least say in what goes on.
We shouldn't stop contributing or act as if the other two couldn't function without our assuming control.
ElderChild, Why stop with the name of The Son? Does the name of The Father not bother you as well? There are many traditions that are not grounded in scripture. Why does this one bother you so much?
quantumcat,
Reconcile your above post with this.
14And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
And I am not saying it can not be reconciled.
Remember Jonah.
It is not solely up to us whether people are past the point that God can work with them.
Sometimes,He calls us to Ninevah.
Sometimes,we walk away from Sodom and don't look back.
Sometimes,the seed we plant molds or gets eaten by birds but the ground we prepared helps the next sower have a bumper crop.
All that is assuming we are speaking with God's voice.
(That's not always the case.)
We have an obligation to speak (and live) the Word but we do not have God's knowledge of how another person's spiritual development is progressing,what paths that journey might take and whether they will embrace His will or not.
It's not our job to decide whether this individual is a sheep or a goat.
God has had uses for both in his temple.
He may even have given something we could use to the llamas.
quantumcat,
I wish I had your way with words.
quantumcat,
Not a bad reconciliation if I say so myself.
But I must ask. If I see a goat am I suppose to recognize it as a sheep. I have no problem letting them graze in the same pasture but am I to call a goat a sheep. Even Earl, the guy I knew who had an affair with a sheep said there was a big difference between a sheep and a goat.
Back to a more serious note.
How about the wheat and the tares. Even the servants recognized the difference between the two and called one a tare and one a wheat. They were not judging the the destination of either. They left that to the householder but they were calling a tare a tare and a wheat a wheat.
Reminds me of calling a sin a sin. If it is a sin it is a sin. Almost too simple.
It's fine to let sheep be sheep,goats be goats,wheat be wheat and tares be tares.
I just don't want to be the one who starts drenching God's garden with Round-up and then have Him ask me what happened to his prairie flowers,birds,bees and butterflies.
I guess I'm the type that puts spiders,snakes,bats and mice outside rather than killing them as a reflex action.
Do I let them hang around to do harm to me or mine?
No.
Do I go near them without being wary?
No.
But my default setting is that every being was placed here because they had worth and a purpose.
My job is to find out from God if I can help them attain that goal - not try to annihilate them or turn them into something they were never meant to be.
I figure a holy life is like a healthy diet and exercise program.
It doesn't fit Man's ever changing objectives.
("I want to be bigger." "I want to be smaller.")
It gives the person what they need and helps them become what they were created to be.
That might not be the same for all of us.
We would each respond according to what was right for us instead of what the world reccommends or what we might think we want for ourselves.
Don't try to dictate how a person's soul will react when Grace is applied.
Just make it accessible and let God take it from there.
Thank you,Sharon22.
I've admired what you say.
quantumcat,
If you noticed in the parables none of the tares became wheat and none of the goats became sheep.
My whole point was that calling a goat a goat is not being judgemental. I think discerning might be the proper applied English word.
Call a goat a goat on here and everyone comes forth with the judge word. Absolutely incredible.
I am going to have to go along with my old buddy Earl. "A damn goat is not a sheep".
That's true!
Just don't assume a goat will be damed before it draws its last breath.
Don't assume every sheep is going to wind up with the Shepherd and not poisoned by some ruthless rancher.
We're too quick to assume that THIS person we admire needs no supplemental grace while THAT person we disapprove of wouldn't put it to good use if we gave it to them.
God tells us to feed his sheep-even the fat,sleek ones and even the ones that run into the brambles and try to snap and butt you with their horns.
Sometimes,you might be tempted to say "Horns? Check. Cloven hooves? Check. O.k. I'm going to ignore this beast on general principles."
The Lord knows that wheat and tares much reach their full growth before they can be distinguished one from the other.
One will be bowed in humility and one will stand erect where it can be cut down.
Let them all become as productive as they can be and let the Owner decide who is to be kept and who must be set aside to fend for themselves.
The Lord knows that wheat and tares much reach their full growth before they can be distinguished one from the other.
Posted by quantumcat on Sun, Jun 22, 2008, at 6:08 PM
quantumcat,
I have to disagree a little with you there. When the blade sprung forth the tares were distinguishable. He even said let them grow together until the harvest. I can assure you a true tare will not turn into a wheat just as a goat will not turn into a sheep.
And even if they could turn one into another I think it would not be in the best interest of the goat to just accept the goat as a goat and pretend everything was okay and maybe tommorrow will be better. Tommorrow may never come. It might just be too late for anything besides barbequed goat.
God tells us to feed his sheep-even the fat,sleek ones and even the ones that run into the brambles and try to snap and butt you with their horns.
Posted by quantumcat on Sun, Jun 22, 2008, at 6:08 PM
quantumcat,
I hope you have noticed in your study of the Bible He never told anyone to feed the goats?
quantumcat,
Not picking on you. Just giving you something to think about. That's what is all about, isn't it?
Yep.
But don't be tooo hard on old Nanny and Billy.
Being a sheep doesn't get you an instant entry nor does being a goat keep you out.
It is how we live that determines our fate.
Those who treat others with fairness and compassion act as our Savior would behave and the recipients of that good treatment stand in for Christ Himself.
The same is true for those controlled by arrogance and spite.
They act as their master would and Jesus feels the sting of their indifference and cruelty.
This Judgement of the Nations focuses more on deeds than creeds.
It implies that our "off duty" conduct makes more of an impression on God than what we do when we intentionally try to get in His good graces.
Those he rebukes might very well respond that they'd have acted differently had they known Who they were offending.
But,virtue is the good we do when "no one is looking".
It is our true nature coming forth without conscious effort that reveals who we are and who we serve.
If we speak of literal placement,the goats on Jesus' left would be on the same side as God the Father because Jesus is seated on the right hand of the Father.
If we speak of Jesus as God's "right hand Man",then those who do not perform His will and act in accordance with His love have put themselves as far from God's power as they can get.
Christ will not look to see who has straight horns and who has curly.
The Father won't care whose tail curls high and whose droops down.
The Holy Spirit will ignore who grazes and who browses.
In Biblical times,sheep and goats were thought of as pretty much the same.
But,there were differences.
It is the goat who bears the sins during the Day of Atonement.
It is the lamb whose blood stains the believer's lintel during Passover.
The goat and the sheep both believe in God but the wise sheep will support the bretheren even in those last days when Israel summons her Lord and the enemy seeks to destroy her before He can arrive.
Deluded or selfish goats may ignore the cries of the bretheren or work to achieve their undoing.
Again,their actions are the consequence of who they serve - not a means of joining one team or another.
A goat who goes out to do good deeds to make brownie points is still out of sync with God's will.
If its heart is troubled by its lack of compassion and it reaches out to aid the usurper's foes at the risk of losing its own life,it is obedient to God.
If it nurtures the afflicted without making excuses ("They brought this on themselves." "Someone else can do it." "This will just open up a can of worms."),then the Lord will find favor in their service,however flawed.
God is not so much exiling those who failed to show love as He is letting them continue the estrangement they instituted themselves.
(If they cannot abide with Him an hour,how would they tolerate an eternity?)
He is separating the beasts based on the master they have chosen.
It is not enough to know God exists or say "Lord,Lord".
He must be able to say:
"These beasts are of my flock.
Look at the stripes they wear.
See how they come to me to be fed.
Notice how they know my voice above all others.
These I have purchased at a dear price.
These others do not obey me.
They seek to conceal themselves as I approach.
I do not know them.
Let them be taken to the one who owns them."
It is how we live that determines our fate.
Posted by quantumcat on Mon, Jun 23, 2008, at 12:21 PM
quantumcat,
(sarcastically) What brand of scales will the big guy use? Is there a point system that is readily available to be studied? The Raccolta perhaps. Do they round up to the nearest whole number? You have any works of supererogation you might want to sell?
Seriously;
I think it is who or what our hilasterion is that determines our fate. If Christ is our hilasterion we will live a life of which he is our fate.
If we speak of literal placement,the goats on Jesus' left would be on the same side as God the Father because Jesus is seated on the right hand of the Father.
Posted by quantumcat on Mon, Jun 23, 2008, at 12:21 PM
Very good point. The goats do not have an intermediary between them and God. They stand alone before God. The sheep on the other hand are on the right hand of Jesus who is therefore an intermediary between them and God.
You may want to stand before God and tell Him how you have lived but I do not want to be without Jesus in between me and God.
I had never noticed the possible theory of the unprotected goats until you presented the parable as you did. The lost goats did not have Christ to stand or sit in between them and a pure and perfect God. Perhaps the Devil likes smoked goat.
Smoked goat? :
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Those who treat others with fairness and compassion act as our Savior would behave and the recipients of that good treatment stand in for Christ Himself.
The same is true for those controlled by arrogance and spite.
They act as their master would and Jesus feels the sting of their indifference and cruelty.
-me
If you want fescue,don't plant rye.
If you want to reap holiness,the right seed has to be purchased.
The garden has to be prepared and you have to nurture the tender growth until harvest time.
But,if you don't give the seed what it needs to grow it won't flourish.
You're not about to reap holiness if you sow unrighteousness.
So,yes,behavior matters because what emerges reveals what seed has been sown in the spirit.
Those who treat others with fairness and compassion act as our Savior would behave and the recipients of that good treatment stand in for Christ Himself.
Posted by quantumcat on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 2:09 PM
quantumcat,
I have to disagree with you a little on that one also. Absolutely no one nor any thing stands in for Christ. You are truly deceived if you believe even a hint of that.
No works of ours, no matter how good they be, are nothing other than filthy rags in regard to righteousness.
So,yes,behavior matters because what emerges reveals what seed has been sown in the spirit.
Posted by quantumcat on Tue, Jun 24, 2008, at 2:09 PM
quantumcat,
I believe it is more correct to say it is the overall change in behavior that reveals what seed has been sown in the spirit.
Question: Two individuals claim they have received the spirit. Which has probably received the Holy Spirit? A or B? Their behavior was privately monitored for a 3 year period after reception of a spirit and ranked on a known scale of 1-100 with 100 being perfect behavior.
A was a known drug user and dealer. He had not had a job in 5 years. If money was tight he would break into homes during the day and pawn the take for pennies on the dollar. Prior to receiving the spirit his behavior was ranked at a 15 by an independant behavioral study. Three years later he was married, had a child and works a full time job of which he was rarely late. He has not even had a drink but the 2 or 3 times he lapsed. The behavioral study now rates him at a 65.
B was raised a near perfect young man. Rarely a time he met someone that he did not address them as ma'am or sir. He was taught to say prayer before every meal and did. He rarely missed sending birthday cards to everyone he knew. Alcohol nor drugs had ever touched his lips. The behavioral study rated him a 98. Three years later after receiving a spirit he was having an affair on his wife. He still worked somewhat regularly but had changed jobs 3 times for less money each time. He started drinking and watching Monday night football at the local bar with his buddies and leaving his wife and two children at home. He started playing pool on Wendsday with the guys instead of taking the family to church. The behavioral study rated his behavior now at an 85.
Which probably had an encouter with the Holy Spirit?
A with a behavior score of 65 or
B with a behavior score of 85 ?
I think you are trying to compare apples to oranges with this scenario, because behavior does matter, if the seed of the Holy Spirit is not watered it will not grow and unrightousness will take over.
Sharon22,
Absolutely, behavior matters. It should be a continual positive upward movement in behavior instead of a backwards movement as the above example represents. The above is not about an apple and orange comparison. It is a real life scenerio of which I have witnessed. I seen a change in both men. One forward and one backward. One difinitely appears to have taken on a Holy Spirit. There has been a positive overall change in one.
Then why the numbers rating?
Sharon22,
To symbolize or show one's positive movement and one's backward movement and the fact that the one that appears to have the best behavior actually went backwards with his spirit and the one with the lesser of behavior actually went forward with his spirit.
O.K.
I'm probably not using good analogies.
First,the "stand-in" part referred to the recipients of our good works being "proxies" for Christ as they receive the love we are showing Him when we do His will.
When we are deputized by the enemy,we grieve Christ with every act of foolishness and cruelty because the adversary is using our minds,our hands and our hearts as if they were his own.
There were mothers in the U.S.O. who made a point to gladden the heart of every member of the armed services they encountered.
With each snack or visit,garment made or letter written,they gave love to their own precious child.
It is in this way that we not only look at ourselves and ask :"What would Jesus do?" and "What would I have others do unto me?" but "What would I do unto Christ if He were next to me as these people are?"
As for your young men,I compare the first to one that was spiritually ill.
He had his disease removed and he has bolstered his soul with rest and good nourishment,exercise and keeping clean.
He isn't in peak condition yet because he has a lot of repair yet to be done.
He may never fully recover from all the damage but each day makes him healthier and more energetic.
The second man started out with a good constitution.
He had no serious injuries and he maintained himself well enough.
But,he took his health for granted.
He stopped giving his soul what it needed to stay well.
He started having small insults to his spirit (much like germs and injuries )chip away at his strength.
With each day,he is less able to bounce back.
He can no longer do what he could once do with ease.
Although he refuses to accept it,the way he has dismissed the health of his soul has caused major parts of him to falter.
A malignancy grows within him that threatens to destroy all the soundness that remains.
Because he started out hale and hearty,he seems in better shape on the outside than the man recovering from near-death.
But,unless he has the corruption inside him removed and resumes a restorative lifestyle,he will deteriorate because he won't have the stamina to fight off dangers or the means of renewing what he has lost.
This second man is dying more with every day.
Next week,they may both be at 75.
But,within the next month,the former may well be holding steady at 90 while the latter has reached 40 and is still declining and still doing what would hamper a spiritual decathalon winner.
One has restored his "default setting" of abundant life by adding health and subtracting destructive factors.
The other has undermined every asset he had and added the cumulative effects of several lethal influences.
With any luck,both will remember that it is the presence of Life (rather than the absence of death) that keeps us going-and makes it worth our while to be here.
quantumcat,
As with every instance the components can be seen in different lights by different viewers.
In the example I gave the second person (b) was a taught and trained religionist. He never saw a need for a Savior. He was actually in essence his own savior. He had been taught his "behavior" would merit his ticket.
The first person (a) had received a life changing Holy Spirit that was constantly at work driving out the old man and making more room for the new man. I saw an ongoing transformation in him.
The way I heard it,"religion" doesn't save.
It can be nice to have but it takes a redemptive bond with Christ to turn our lives around.
The woman who was going to be stoned might have had a religion to help her drive out her old man and make room the next but it took getting right with God to help her have a covenant marriage with one man or stay single.
Who knows?
Maybe He made a new man out of her husband as he made a new woman out of her.
Some people can't miss what they've never had.
If head knowledge has kept you comfortable,you might not seek heart knowledge.
Once you see the real thing,the rest just doesn't hold up.
I hope your friend,Mr. B, winds up like a friend of mine.
His folks gave him a rubber toy that looked like a steak.
I'm sure he had a moment where he thought their meal from Golden Corral was just like his (only his squeaked).
Then,he saw that they seemed to be getting a lot more pleasure from their version.
Once he saw that his was a less satisfying knock off,he insisted on a share of what they were enjoying.
No one's going to take away our "belief systems" when we get saved.
We'll just add a relationship that has flavor,sustenance and sizzle.
That might work a lot better than a rubber sirloin with no mushrooms,Texas toast,salad or baked potato.
I have one (cocker spaniel) who knows the difference between the rubber squeaking steak and the real thing. Matter of fact he has got so picky he wants grilled filet mignon and growls if it is cooked more than medium.
Next,he'll be wanting a gift card from Outback for his birthday.
I figure some dogs assume that the rubber steak is all there is.
They don't know that it imitates something else.
They might think bacon smells like Beggin' Strips.
But,a philosophic pup might ask if all the fake treats imply the existence of something genuine they have yet to see.
The enemy will tell critters: "You don't want what's on your Master's table.
It's not good for you.
I can provide you with all the floor sweepings and 4-D (dead,disabled,diseased or dying) "meat by products" you want-complete with mold and pesticides!"
During the time the Lassie program was sponsored by a pet food company,her owner,Rudd Weatherwax, was making her dinners with human grade meat and vegetables as well as the high grade kibble.
Our adversary has to work overtime to find additives that will make trash palatable enough that we will swallow it without thinking about what the flavor disguises.
He'll try to stuff us with harmless but useless things as well so we won't seek or accept proper nutrition.
We wouldn't know how we could take in so much and still be hungry.
A good Master provides food that is safe and nourishing.
It satisfies because it has actual worth.
It might seem inappropriate to take a Child's bread and give it to a starving cur but if the Son has grown strong from what the Father provides,would the crumbs from His table not be wholesome for the creatures that sit at His feet?