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Forever Freedom
Posted Friday, July 4, 2008, at 7:43 AM<< Previous | Read comments | Respond | Email link | Next >>
As we celebrate the birth of our nation lets remember that even though it is far from perfect it is still the greatest nation on Earth. We have freedoms here that several nations could only dream of having. I think it was Churchill that said" A republic for a government is the worst kind to have behind all the others" The picture that I post with this blog is from my own front yard and displays my two greatest loves My God and My Country. I would gladly die for both. And for people to separate the two is beyond my reasoning. I will always say "One nation under God" during the pledge of allegiance. My two favorite songs will always be "The Star Spangled Banner" and "Amazing Grace" which I believe go hand in hand. Even though we differ within our nation we always pull together to fight the common enemy. "The church could take a lesson from that" Jesus came to give freedom , freedom from sin , death and freedom from the "Lake of Fire" This is not a freedom to sin because if you are truly saved you will not use it to sin but to stay away from it. If you get freed from drugs and put yourself back in them , it is your choice. The only freedom I gladly give up is my allegiance to the world for I am a slave to Christ Jesus. When asked my opinions I say I have none for when I gave my life to him his opinions and thoughts became mine. MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA AND MAY AMERICA BLESS GOD! Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
A man getting to the roots of his faith.
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I think it was Churchill that said" A republic for a government is the worst kind to have behind all the others"
In your above statement, could you please elaborate more what you meant, because I do understand why you posted that as it didn't really go with the theme you were presenting.
I liked the quote.
To my understanding a republic is the least of all the evils of people being governed by anyone.
No matter how bad this country gets as long as we still have the constitution it is still the best form of government.
The constitution as the bible gets interpreted so many ways.
The phrase "one nation under God" in the pledge of Allegiance violates the First Amendment to the constitution. At the urging of the Knights of Columbus, a proselytizing Catholic organization, "under God" was added. H.R. 1693,83rd Cong.,2nd Sess.(1954) Signed in to law by President Eisenhower, the Pledge of this Nation-with its Bill of rights assuring its citizens that the government will never engage in the purveyance of religious dogma-now had God incorporated into its fabric. The following year, In God We Trust would be require for all United States coins and currency, and the year after that, the same phrase would become our National Motto. From 1776 to 1954 with God not in the Constitution, we never lost a war. From 1954 with God in our constitution we have never won a war. The proof is in the pudding.
I wouldn't care much about people SAYING our country was under the will of God if they'd ACT like it.
Our currency became worthless when it was no longer intrinsically valuable or backed by gold or silver but became an I.O.U. from an empty treasury.
All the labeling in the world didn't make it more than play money.
Similarly,an allegation of morality has little significance if it's not supported by reality.
We will be a great nation only so long as we give more than lip service to the Bill of Rights,the Declaration of Independence,the Constitution and the values we claim created this country.
Every unjust law,every act of corruption,every assault on the innocent and every violation of the public trust is an act of treason.
Every time we distort or neglect our civic duties,we undermine our country as surely as any enemy agent.
We don't have to be the most powerful nation on the earth.
We could be the weakest and still thrive so long as we held to a minimum standard of integrity and never compromised our principles.
It's not enough that America lead the world.
She must take it in the right direction.
She has to believe in the ideals she proclaims enough that the prosperity her conduct brings her encourages people to follow her example.
No coercion from economic or military power can have the impact of a system that actually works as advertised.
Let us show how well a compassionate,dynamic,fair, resourceful,co-operative and responsible nation can function and others might seek the source of our greatness for themselves.
seeker of truth
It's not the phrase (Under God), or our military that caused the loss we incurred.
You forgot one we didn't win, the Korean War which ended before 1954.
In my opinion, out of the last 5 wars including Korea,the only one we had a right to be involved in is Afganistan.
Why is it for the last (6 years) the name Ben Lauden seems to have disappeared from our officals' mouths.
He is responsible for 9-11, we are told.
I suggest the love of money, not the phrase is the real reason.
Why is it for the last (6 years) the name Ben Lauden seems to have disappeared from our officals' mouths.
He is responsible for 9-11, we are told.
I suggest the love of money, not the phrase is the real reason.
-- Posted by jesse sellers on Sat, Jul 5, 2008, at 8:40 AM
Makes you wonder why the person "accused" of being the mastermind of 9/11, has become a nobody to our President... After all, "I'm not worried about him..." was Bush's response when asked if we were going to capture him anytime soon, back in 2004....
And Seeker of Truth, I absolutely LOVE your comment. I wonder why nobody can dispute truth?
Take God out of the Fabric of this nation and watch the rest of your freedoms go down the drain.
It's your generation time to take control, and when you finish taking God out of America, your boat will sink in short time. Now prove me wrong--go ahead, get rid of those non-loving Christians,then you better keep an eye on that Eastern sky, because that's where your end will be coming from.
Help fulfill prophecy get on your soap box and join the ACLU they need you.
PS
While you are thinking up an answer to me. Tell me of a country that doesn't have the christian God principles woven into their fabric, and have the freedoms you enjoy.
Umm, the most obvious would be the U.S.A ... Our Constitution is the 'Supreme Law of the Land', not the Bible. Notice when legislators take oath to office which piece book they swear to uphold... the same book Soldiers swear to defend... hint: it's NOT the Bible....
And those who wrote the Constitution FLED from a country where the CHURCH was mandated by the government (i.e. Christianity in various forms)... There are other countries which seek to disallow its citizens the freedom in choosing which religion they wish to believe in. A few state sponsored religions come to mind, Iran, North Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. You know the same type of countries you may find deplorable, are in fact not that different from your own.
Sounds good to me.
Yes, and I also believe there not but one cow in Texas.
Why I support the ACLU, in 1776 our fathers endeavored to retire God from politics. They declared that"their new government would derive its just powers from the consent of the governed."
In this country it is admitted that the power to govern resides in the people themselves; that they are the only rightful source of authority. For many centuries before the formation of our Government, before the promulgation of the Declaration of Independence, the people had little voice in the affairs of nations. The source of authority was not in this world; Kings were not crowned by their subjects, and the sceptre was not held by the consent of the governed. The King sat on the throne by the will of God, and for that reason was not accountable to the people for the exercise of his power. He commanded, and the people obeyed. He was lord of their bodies, and his partner, the priest, was lord of their souls. The government on earth was patterned after the kingdom on high. God was a supreme autocrat in heaven, whose will was law, and the King was a supreme autocrat on earth whose will was law. The God in heaven had inferior beings to do his will, and the King on earth had certain favorites and officers to do his. These officers were accountable to him, and he was responsible to God.
The Feudal system was supposed to be in accordance with the divine plan. The people were not governed by intelligence, but by threats and promises, by rewards and punishments. The people were created to support thrones and altars. Their destine was to toil and obey--to work and want.They were to be satisfied with huts and hovels, with ignorance and rags, and their children must expect no more. In the presence of the King they fell upon their knees, and before the priest they groveled in the dust. The poor peasant divided his earning with the state, because he imagined it protect his body; he divided his crust with the church, believing that it protected his soul. He was the prey of the Throne and Altar--one deform his body, the other his mind--and these two vultures fed upon his toil. He was taught by the King to hate the people of other nations, and by the priest to despise the believers in all other religions. He was made the enemy of all people except his own. He had no sympathy with the peasants of other lands, enslaved and plundered like himself. He was kept in ignorance, because education is the enemy of superstition, and because education is the foe of that egotism often mistaken for patriotism.
Through all the ages of superstition, each nation has insisted that it was the peculiar care of the true God, and that it alone had true religion--that the gods of other nations were false and fraudulent, and that other religions were wicked, ignorant and absurd. In this way the seed of hatred had been sown, and in this way have been kindled the flames of war. Men have no sympathy with those of a different complexion, with those who knelt at other altars and expressed their thoughts in other words--and even a difference in garments placed them beyond the sympathy of others. Ever peculiarity was the food of prejudice and the excuse for hatred.
I myself don't want to go back to the Feudal system. This is why I support the ACLU. Their is one thing that I love more than this country, that is Liberty. I can also say give me Liberty or give me death.
You can howl at the moon or at the truth, but the moon is still there, and also the truth is still there.
You're asking 'what if I'm wrong',I'm asking you what if I'm right?
The Feudal system has nothing to do with it.
It's your relationship with Jesus Christ.
Again, man's facts always change-- God's don't.
PS
GO to Google.com
Look up man's new fact called laminin.
Does it remind you of any thing you have seen?
Like you a life is nothing to give up.That is coming to all of us.
It's the soul of your's I'm concerned about.
Funny how you have so much faith in Google, jesse... You know, a MAN-MADE site, with articles written by MAN, it doesn't surprise because you have just as much faith in a BOOK written by MAN... who were no different than men today, and "man's facts always change." Even then, they weren't perfect yet somehow you think they were. That's what is so hilarious about your utter contradiction.
I thought you guys believed in answering questions, but you haven't answered my first one.
To answera a statement you made. Yes they are different from men of today. The men you are refering to was taught by Jesus Christ.
The men who wrote the Bible were not taught by Jesus Christ... Many were DEAD before Jesus Christ existed. You don't know as much as you think you do. Those in the New Testament didn't write a single book while Jesus was alive. They wrote books from notes and "hand-me-down" stories hundreds of years after Jesus' ascension into heaven. The Korean War is a moot point, btw. Since you can't even get the authors of the Bible right, I assume your memory of recent history is just as inaccurate.
John wrote revelation not that long after the death of Christ because The Holy Spirit told him what to write.
nascarfanatic,
Actually all the books of the New Testament were written within approximately 12 to 60 years of the resurrection of Christ and almost all were written by eye witnesses of a resurrected Christ.
They wrote books from notes and "hand-me-down" stories hundreds of years after Jesus' ascension into heaven.
Posted by nascarfanatic on Sun, Jul 6, 2008, at 9:38 AM
nascarfanatic,
These you refer to would be the books that did not make the canon much because of what you just said.
Actually Matthew, Mark, Luke, John were all written 200-300 years after Jesus left.
Actually Matthew, Mark, Luke, John were all written 200-300 years after Jesus left.
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sun, Jul 6, 2008, at 3:09 PM
Exactly.. That's why ALL FOUR have different opinions/accounts of the same events... It's a good thing we don't have any "eye witnesses" of the Revolutionary War living today huh? Same concept.
Thanks for sharing about laminins!
I like the fact that we have staffs,crescents,tribectas and who-knows-what-else in us.
(We may have a swastika,ankh or infinity symbol show up one day.)
The symbols matter less than the reality behind them.
Otherwise,a bearded man on our breakfast toast could be Christ,Jerry Garcia or Howard Hughes.
We may be given certain phenomena to point us in the direction of a truth we are meant to see but their miraculous qualities aren't confined to the connotations we give them.
That's why there is no need to be repulsed by blood,goats,moons and stars,crystals,black cats,owls skeletons or anything else God brought into being.
Trees and rainbows can be co-opted by the enemy and two sticks bound across one another are only holy if one has belief in the power of the Resurrection.
(Ask any vampire.)
IF we see cruciform proteins as proof we were in God's mind before we ever took physical form,that's wonderful.
But,we should know that even if all we saw was a lumpy white blood cell or entwined strands of DNA.
We can make symbols mean what they will and we can trade faith and justice for religion and law if it means applying a version that can be more easily manipulated.
I think our forefathers concluded it would be better to keep our ideologies safe within our own minds and hearts lest their "official" incarnations become dilute and corrupted.
A mandated religion (even an allegedly secular one) succeeds because it has eliminated any rivals and forebidden any objective examination.
A free and authentic belief attracts people by urging them to study it and its application gives concrete benefit to their lives.
Even our country's founders discovered it is easier to claim authority and suppress all that is different than to earn power and let us rise or fall according to our own merits.
Those who claim to work under the auspices of God and those who reject Him share one thing.
They must learn that any system that bases its survival on keeping the people weak will fail.
The people will acquire freedom and knowledge despite all efforts to deny them.
Those that encourage that freedom and learning will prosper along with its people.
Those who would have them be chattel instead of shield-mates will be crushed beneathe their feet as they tread toward their destiny.
We should look to see how many nations have achieved greatness at the expense of their citizens and neighbors.
Look to see whether any have risen by supporting liberty,fredom of thought,inventiveness,personal responsibility and concern for those in need.
Look to see if its inhabitants join the ACLU,NRA,Greenpeace,the ASPCA,Habitat for Humanity,Good Samaritan,NAACP,B'nai Brith,Amnesty International,Second Harvest,Common Cause,Red Crescent,VFW,RIF,Project Heifer,Special Olympics,Big Brothers/Big Sisters or any other group that might make the world a better place.
The Bible and Constitution are only so much paper and ink to those in need of the physical and spiritual means to survive if we don't promote their principles in actions instead of battles among ourselves.
What sources are you relying on when you say they were written 200-300 years after Jesus left? Most sources I have read say within 30 or 50 years of his death.
The phrase "one nation under God" in the pledge of Allegiance violates the First Amendment to the constitution.
-- Posted by Seeker of Truth on Fri, Jul 4, 2008, at 9:47 PM
I would like to note that this is not a statement of fact because as of yet the Supreme Court has not issuing any ruling to that effect. Therefore the pledge as currently in use is not legally in violation of the First Amendment.
The link below has a timetable for each of the New Testament Books which seem to agree with everything I have seen before except possibly the Gospel of Mathew which they date a little earlier.
http://www.biblestudy.org/beginner/ntboo...
Actually Matthew, Mark, Luke, John were all written 200-300 years after Jesus left.
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sun, Jul 6, 2008, at 3:09 PM
Exactly.. That's why ALL FOUR have different opinions/accounts of the same events... It's a good thing we don't have any "eye witnesses" of the Revolutionary War living today huh? Same concept.
-- Posted by nascarfanatic on Sun, Jul 6, 2008, at 3:36 PM
nascarfanatic,
What is it that you see so different about the four Gospels? I see them being remarkably all in harmony with one another. They all were written about first hand accounts of a Resurrected Christ. Three are dated to have been written within 12 years of the resurrection and even Luke within 28 years.
Why do you want to destroy people's faith in the Bible? What do you or anyone believe you have to gain by doing it? What does a soul have to gain by believing you?
My--MY
Sorry, I missed out on the debate I started.
Yes nascar, Jesus had given up his earthly life ,but he wasn't dead when the Christian part of the Bible was written.
Ask fraud Paul if he was dead. Paul met him after his life here was over.
Yes, like all history it has to be completed before it can be written about.
I have been taught by people a lot smarter than you or I. It took from 3o years to 90 years for all the pieces had to be put together, with Rev. being the last book completed after the 90 yr. period and yes, it's about prophesy not history.
YES IT TOOK TIME. IT HAD TO BE CORRECT, NO RUSH JOB WAS NEEDED.
I could care less what you think of me. Like you it's what I think of myself that matters. I have to deal with me everday.
As, I told you before it's your future you should be concerned about, mine is at rest.
If we had won in Korea it would be one nation today, not two.
Again, I ask you to tell me of a nation that doesn't have the Christian's God values woven in there fabrick and enjoy the freedoms you and I do.
jesse sellers,
Most everyone will only tell you what they do not believe in and seek to have you join them in their disbelief. Rarely will they tell you what they believe in.
Sadly it is probably because they lack something worthy to have faith in. One thing I have noticed in life is that if someone beleives in something they will not be ashamed to stand up and say who they are and explain what they believe in.
Sorry, but that timeline is incorrect I see alot of books missing so it is clearly biased. So you believe a mere website over my word? And you believe people you never met from 1700 years ago over someone you have talked with? Yet you believe Michaels words as 100% PURE FACT even though you have both lied over and over. You are a joke.
Devan,
Give me a call sometime 931-536-1279, I will explain about the books. Not even going to waste my breath on these peons.
Sorry, but that timeline is incorrect I see alot of books missing so it is clearly biased. So you believe a mere website over my word? And you believe people you never met from 1700 years ago over someone you have talked with? Yet you believe Michaels words as 100% PURE FACT even though you have both lied over and over. You are a joke.
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Mon, Jul 7, 2008, at 9:24 AM
Evil Monkey,
It is not a mere website that forms my belief of the timeline. I posted what was just a quick and easy link to what I have came to accept as an accurate timeline based on uncountable detailed explanations referring to the events of the text cross referenced to historical records of the same timeline.
A lot of the books you mentioned that were "missing" dated to the fourth and fith centuries and were never mentioned in earlier writings and were probably not even around to be considered at the canonization of the Bible. Most were beleived to be gnostic works written much later as you claimed earlier and never considered as inspired.
Yes, I actually do believe the accounts of people who actually wrote their letters almost 2000 years ago.
What do you have to gain by dicrediting any Christians belief that the bible is the inspired and protected Word of God?
What would I or any person have to gain by believing your disbelief?
Why does it bother you that we believe in a risen and living Jesus?
What would anyone gain by believing you in that Christ did not rise from the grave?
Parker
They are fulfilling prophey, it will get more nasty as we go along.
Like you, I trust the recordings two thousands year ago over todays because they had more to loose, it was comsidered heretic to the Jewis Church, and probably had some factor in the time span of the books being written, as I have been told.
The books left out can still be found and read.
Yes, from A.D. 30 until A.D. 311 was a tough time to be a Christian. Probably why the gnostic works were not written until after the persecution subsided.
What you believe are Gnostic were not written after 311 AD. Most books were removed because they were not approved by the Pagan rulers at the time, not the Jewish Church. What you feel and what you read from biased websites are not fact. When you simply leave out factual information and then claim otherwise to be the truth is not the correct way to respond.
Why do you the need to say something about me that clearly isn't true when my actions speak for me? Clearly you feel words are more powerful than actions. Guess that is why you seem to always been in certain "situations".
Evil Monkey,
You can add or take away all the books of the Bible that your heart convicts you to if it helps you finally come to an understanding of the Gospel and a belief in the passion of a Living Christ.
It seems though that the addition of all the books you would like included in your Bible have led you away from instead of drawn you to an acceptance of a living Christ. Is the purpose of your mission to pull others into disbelief also? What do you have to gain from drawing people away from the belief of a resurrected and living Jesus?
#1 You don't know what I believe.
#2 I don't need to beg people to believe me.
#3 You assume too much about me and you are wrong.
#4 Because I don't believe the way you do makes me more of a Christian. You prove it more and more each time you open your big mouth. (type)
#1 You don't know what I believe.
#2 I don't need to beg people to believe me.
#3 You assume too much about me and you are wrong.
#4 Because I don't believe the way you do makes me more of a Christian. You prove it more and more each time you open your big mouth. (type)
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Mon, Jul 7, 2008, at 11:11 PM
Evil Monkey,
Responce to #1 - I do not know everything you believe but I trust your word when you write it to represent what you do believe about issues and topics of discussion.
Responce to #2 - I agree with that. I actually hope that people do not believe some of the things you have said about the Bible and Jesus.
Responce to #3 - I ssume nothing about you other than what you say about yourself and I believe you when you say it.
Responce to #4 - I do not think anyone is "more" or less of a Christian than their fellow brother or sister. I believe everyone is simply either a Christian or they have chosen not to be a Christian.
However, for the sake of study and learning, let's assume your theory of "Because I don't believe the way you do makes me more of a Christian" is true. Tell me about this Christ you follow as "more of a Christian". Did your Christ conquer and defeat death and come out of the tomb resurrected like the one I try to follow? You have stated earlier that you do not believe he did.
No, you are placing words in my mouth once again. You selectively take certain words and switch them around to suit your own agenda. Don't patronize me or anyone else around, your motives are pretty clear and everyone sees through them.
Evil Monkey,
What words do think I am placing in your mouth? Only you have the ability to put words in your mouth. Your hand is on your keyboard.
Jesse Sellers; laminins is not mans new fact. The knowledge about Laminin has been around for several years, this makes the third time christian have tried to used it to prove there is a God. Christian are good at their craft witch is lying. If laminins proof anything it proof that evolution is true. Look how many times Lee Strobel and David Barton has been caught lying and made fools of. Christian believe if you tell a lie long and often enough its becomes the truth.
Yes Jesse the Feudal system is what it is all about not your relationship with Jesus Christ. You see Jesse religion destroys Liberty. Ancient philosopher used religion to control people, you don't have to chain them up. You just brain wash them by telling them if they don't do right they are going to hell, but if you do do right they are going to live for ever in that land above the sky.
Every effort to really better the condition of mankind has been opposed by the worshipers of some God. The church in all ages and among all people has been the consistent enemy of the human race. Everywhere and at all times, it has opposed the liberty of thought and expression it has been the sworn enemy of investigation and of intellectual development. It has denied the existence of facts.
Religion is the greats curse ever poured out on the Human race.
Like I said , if there is no God I ain't lost nothing.
But because there is , your gonna loose everything!
Unless you find God!
Angry Agnostic actually posts quite a bit of truth... Religions has oppressed growth and restricted advancement for thousands of years! Scaring people into resisting common-sense change, is absurd, and slowly but surely people begin to use the mind God gave them :) I believe God exists, but I don't believe he is an angry God who constantly focuses on every rumor, select group of people, and hate like you do.
Michael,
#1 If your wrong, you go to hell.
#2 I am not wrong.
Parkerbrothers,
You are typing words I didn't type.
Evil Monkey,
Again, what words are that. Tell me what words you are talking about and I will either agree with you and admit a mistake or I will not agree with you and show you they are the same. Until you do it is considered the same.
Religion is the greats curse ever poured out on the Human race.
-- Posted by Angry Agnostic on Tue, Jul 8, 2008, at 8:59 PM
Very true but the blood of Jesus Christ is the greatest thing ever poured over the human race.
"Until you do it is considered the same."
Who considers it? You? Big deal, not like you even have anything to add that is so extraordinarily original. Who would believe you anyway?
I don't even have to waste my time, because people know exactly where I am coming from and that is what is important. Not what you think or what you want to read. My actions speak for me, my words are mine, and people that have met me and have seen me; know me for whom I am. You do not have one single thing over me. So keep at it, I love the manic postings by you, the struggling of original content to show your superiority and the amount of time you can dedicate to this endeavor.
You amuse me dearly.
Religion is the greats curse ever poured out on the Human race.
-- Posted by Angry Agnostic on Tue, Jul 8, 2008, at 8:59 PM
Very true but the blood of Jesus Christ is the greatest thing ever poured over the human race.
-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Wed, Jul 9, 2008, at 6:55 AM
Angry Agnostic probably wouldn't be so angry if he could grasp this truth.
Angry agnostic,
your post about the fuedal system caught my eye. when you talked about "the poor peasant divided his earning with the state...he divided his crust with the church" Sounds a whole lot like what we are doing now, except substitute our current liberal/socialist government for church. Almost your entire post could describe rather closely the way we are living, except we do not have a forced religion. I do not understand though that being the reason to support the ACLU.
Every effort to really better the condition of mankind has been opposed by the worshipers of some God. The church in all ages and among all people has been the consistent enemy of the human race.
Posted by Angry Agnostic on Tue, Jul 8, 2008, at 8:59 PM
The Church would have probably recommended Eve not to eat the apple and better herself and mankind. So maybe there is a little truth in what you say.
A recent Newsweek magazine poll stated that 82 percent of Americans identify as Christians and 91 percent believe in God. That's pretty impressive until you consider that 99 percent of our entire civilization once believed the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth. As high school students 10,000 years of Greek and Roman religious believes were presented to us as mythology. But if stories of a talking snake that convinced the first woman (made from a spare rib) to commit the original sin, or a Jewish carpenter who rose from the dead after being born of a virgin mother impregnated by a holy ghost aren't mythological, how else can they be described
It is called faith.
But if stories of a talking snake that convinced the first woman (made from a spare rib) to commit the original sin, or a Jewish carpenter who rose from the dead after being born of a virgin mother impregnated by a holy ghost aren't mythological, how else can they be described
-- Posted by Angry Agnostic on Wed, Jul 9, 2008, at 8:06 PM
Hmmmm... Funny how Greek Gods and such are mythology and you shouldn't have "faith" to believe that, yet the same things in the 'bible' are believed because "faith" now allows you to. LOL. Great point!
______________________________________
It is called faith.
-- Posted by michaelbell on Wed, Jul 9, 2008, at 8:31 PM
Blind Faith... Is more like it. If someone were to come up to you today and tell you a snake talked them and told them to sin, you'd call them insane, not one with faith.... Or a child came up to you and his mother said, "I've never had sex.. but here is little Timmy" you'd call her insane, and not one of faith... It's just odd how we treat "miracles" or "odd events" of today as insanity, messages from "spirits" as lunatic, fraudulent, or of demonic forces... Yet it completely acceptable before man even knew how to write about the first humans on earth. ROFL.
While the church has done its share of plaguing humanity, I cannot forget the positive things it has done either. I do not know if I can place the blame at religions feet even for the troubles it has caused. To my way of thinking, the church is supervised by and dictated by us people. I could just as easily make the statement that governments have caused much of the suffering of mankind and be just as accurate to my understanding of history.
I do not see much difference between a feudal system and what we currently have either, but what do you propose we do differently? Anarchy is just not an option, we cannot function without some sort of established order. If you do not believe that, just go watch any group of kids playing. It is not in our nature. There have been many attempts to come up with a system that is fair and just. There have been many volumes written for millennia unknown about how easy it would be to achieve no place if only we could try a slightly different approach. None work. They do not work because no one can truly agree what is a good way to live, and peoples greed and egos get in the way of their desire to make the world a better place. The socialized republic we currently have here is pretty good, as far as a lot of other options go, but it is certainly not without its problems.
I do not personally know of any written history as old as 12,000 years, that goes back much farther than even the earliest writings that I have been exposed to, but the stories you mentioned from the Old Testament are described in different ways by different people. True enough, some take the stories as factual history, some people take from the stories a general overview of how things may have come about. I look at these stories and see the humanity of a group of people living approx. 2500 years ago without the luxury of having all the books already written and all the study already done trying to make sense of who they are, and at the same time trying to make a better life for themselves. These were not generally thought to be an advanced people, even for their time.
I would hate to see what explanations and regulations I would have come up with if I were in that time and place. Actually The Jews did pretty well in comparison to the writings of their counterparts and predecessors. Given they did apparently "borrow" a lot.
I am not at all convinced that the primeval history was originally intended to be an actual history of the world. I currently lean to the belief it was meant to be seen as speculative entertainment that reinforced the basic cohesion of the groups involved.
To quote Mark Twain,"faith is believing in something you know isn't true."
To quote Mark Twain,"faith is believing in something you know isn't true."
-- Posted by Angry Agnostic on Thu, Jul 10, 2008, at 4:07 AM
You will always be angry is your faith is based on Mark Twain.
Become joyous and base you faith on a resurrected living Christ.
It is called faith.
-- Posted by michaelbell on Wed, Jul 9, 2008, at 8:31 PM
Blind Faith... Is more like it. If someone were to come up to you today and tell you a snake talked them and told them to sin, you'd call them insane, not one with faith.... Or a child came up to you and his mother said, "I've never had sex.. but here is little Timmy" you'd call her insane, and not one of faith... It's just odd how we treat "miracles" or "odd events" of today as insanity, messages from "spirits" as lunatic, fraudulent, or of demonic forces... Yet it completely acceptable before man even knew how to write about the first humans on earth. ROFL.
-- Posted by darrick_04 on Wed, Jul 9, 2008, at 10:48 PM
darrick_04,
Sounds like you do not think much of this Faith?
darrick_04,
Sounds like you do not think much of this Faith?
-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Thu, Jul 10, 2008, at 5:25 AM
Quite frankly, if a snake came up to me and told me to do anything... I'd feel as if I were in a Hollywood blockbuster, rather than a biblical predicament.
parkerbrothers,
I have told you, God came to me in a dream and told me to stop the plague that Michael is spreading, but you continue to ignore me. Why do you keep pushing me away and chastising me?
parkerbrothers,
I have told you, God came to me in a dream and told me to stop the plague that Michael is spreading, but you continue to ignore me. Why do you keep pushing me away and chastising me?
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Thu, Jul 10, 2008, at 10:38 AM
Because of who your God is.
Quite frankly, if a snake came up to me and told me to do anything... I'd feel as if I were in a Hollywood blockbuster, rather than a biblical predicament.
-- Posted by darrick_04 on Thu, Jul 10, 2008, at 10:06 AM
Perhaps you are.
I am angry because I spent fifty years of my life worshipping a god that was not there.
He was there. Perhaps not as "you" wanted Him but He was there as "He" desired to be.
Angry Agnostic, Then who are you mad at? I understand your anger, but who is to blame?
He was there. Perhaps not as "you" wanted Him but He was there as "He" desired to be.
-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Thu, Jul 10, 2008, at 5:11 PM
Just remember that when begin to spout off things that YOU think displeases God... Yet God himself (in living form "Jesus") has never said a word about.
nascarfanatic,
He has let us know what He wants us to know in the way He wants us to know.
We just have to accept it or reject it as we each choose.
nascarfanatic,
He has let us know what He wants us to know in the way He wants us to know.
We just have to accept it or reject it as we each choose.
-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Thu, Jul 10, 2008, at 8:35 PM
It is impossible to accept or reject what isn't there...
But is so easy to accept what is there. It all depends if we have eyes to see and ears to hear.
All things are possible with God.