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A Glimmer of Hope.
Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008, at 11:52 AM<< Previous | Read comments | Respond | Email link | Next >>
I was amazed that my girls came home from school with a bible each yesterday, it almost floored me.
When I asked who gave them to them they said that two nice men from Gideons passed them out.
Evidently they do it for all the fifth graders. I stopped by Thomas and talked to the assist. principal and she cleared that up for me.
No where in the bible can you find where the faith in Christ was forced , it was always offered and either rejected or accepted.
A lot of today's Christian try to force someone to take it, I have been accused of it myself, if it seemed that way I am sorry.
I just try to plant the seed and hopefully it will grow.
Who knows out of all them children could be the next Mother Teresa or Billy Graham or maybe just a nice Sunday School teacher.
I am sure that some negative comments will come out of this as it usually does, but I commend the Bedford county school system for allowing the Gideons to plant the seed , now we will hopefully see it grow and produce more. Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
Hot topics I Thought I had Seen It All !(153 ~ 2:54 PM, Dec 3)
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I am not going to make any negative comments against you. But personally I believe that the school has no right to allow religious materials to be passed out.
apparently flat creek girl you do not want the word of god given to children who may not have an opportunity to go to church. that is what is wrong with the world today to many people leave god out of their lives and this is an opportunity for the children and they can choose whether to read it our not.
The Gideons have been giving away Bibles for many, many years. These are usually the Bibles you see in hotel rooms. The Bibles are given away freely with no strings attached to whatever group they are handing them out too. If you wish to talk they will talk with you, but nothing is forced. It is a wonderful organization run by business men from around the world.
If you are interested in finding out more about the Gideons here's a link to their website:
http://www.gideons.org/TGI.Web/TGI.Web.P....
I wonder how many people would have been as pleased if their children brought home a Quran instead. I daresay there would have been problems arise suddenly. I agree with Flat Creek Girl, there is a time and a place for everything. I do appreciate the Gideon's concern; however school may not be an appropriate outlet for the Bible distribution.
I have mixed feeling on this subject simply because you give a book to someone does not mean you are required to read it..
If you do not want the Book you can feel free to trash it.
To me it is no different than the Moonies handing out material at the airport or the Mennonites knocking on your door with pamphlets.
You can either be polite and take the material offered and trash it later or just refuse what is offered. No one is forcing anyone to accept anything or even read it for that matter.
I guess I'm a horrible Aunt for giving my niece and nephew those Precious Moments Bibles for Christmas when they were small kids!
Seriously, I agree with adders comment!
My children would politely decline the Quran or a book on Scientology or the moonies or anything else.
The Gideon's offer it not force you to take it.
Should the Jehova's witness get upset when a armed services recruiter shows up at a school, no they just decline the offer.
I would be very upset if my child came home from school with the Quran simply because our country was founded on the Christian faith.
I can also understand, although I don't necessarily agree, that with the separation of church and state people could be upset or offended with the Bibles being sent home from a state funded institution.
Dianatn,
I think that is one reason why the Gideons have been so sucessful. They give you a small pocket size New Testament with the prayer that you read it, but have "no strings connected" to it. I'm not sure, but I think at some schools the Gideons stay out of the schools and on the sidewalk. I understands folks concern, but like several have said, you can either accept or reject it politely or toss it at a later time.
It might be a good idea for us to read works by people of all types.
If they contain false or otherwise dangerous notions,we should make ourselves familiar with them,compare them with the truth and make others aware of the difference.
If,on the other hand,the unfamiliar material we read proves to be valid (or,at least,innocuous),we can extract what is worthy and share it with others.
Thinking we know all about something we've never examined for ourselves can be damaging.
Even the most well-meaning person can pass on incomplete or misconstrued information.
Heresay can be an adequate starting point but we should follow up any second-hand interpretations with our own studies.
Putting our own time and reasoning into whatever data we are offered takes it beyond propaganda and makes the information our own to accept and apply or reject and counter.
quantumcat, I wholeheartedly agree with you, but do our children have the same capabilities as we adults to ascertain the differences, or the ability to determine what should be "thrown out"?
Saying that the child could refuse the bible is unrealistic. A child is not going to refuse a bible (or any book) when all the other children are taking one and risk ridicule. Peer pressure is as big a deal with elementary school children as older children.
If the Gideons are given the opportunity to pass out bibles on school property, then all other faiths must be given the same opportunity. As much as some don't want to admit it, Christianity is not the only religion practiced in this country. (Nor was this country founded on the Christian faith). Since other faiths probably wouldn't be given the same considerations as Christians, then no faith should have access to the school system.
If I want my child to have a Bible, or a Quran, or any other religious book, I will give them one myself. I would not object if the Gideons came to my door, but I do not want them at the school.
As far as children who are not given the opportunity to go to church, there are ways to give those children access to religion other than at school.
You would be amazed at the children who would turn down the bible because of peer pressure.
If they wanted to offer books of other faiths[false I might add] fine , my girls would be polite and say no.
You would be amazed at the children who would turn down the bible because of peer pressure.
If they wanted to offer books of other faiths[false I might add] fine , my girls would be polite and say no.
-- Posted by michaelbell on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 4:34 PM
Yes, they might turn it down if others were turning it down because of peer pressure, just the same as they would take it because of peer pressure. That's the way peer pressure works.
Something is not false just because YOU do not believe it. I am surprised that you think it is "fine" for other books of faith to be passed out. I would have guessed that you would be one of the first in line to protest.
I believe in equal opportunities, I just don't want to see the Christian opportunity squashed.
If you want to give your family members a Bible that is fine. They are your family and I would assume that you know their beliefs.
If I wanted my children to learn about religon at school I would enroll them in a private school where religon is part of the curriculum.
I agree school is not the place to "teach" religion but giving them a Bible teaches nothing. It does no more for anyone than the flyers that organizations put on cars in parking lots that state "WWJD"
If a child has gotten as far as the fifth grade and does not know what your beliefs are concerning religion then it is evident you have not done your job.
If peer pressure would make your child take a Bible knowing your family does not believe in the book then God help your child when he/she gets further in school. They will be every drug dealer's dream.
I am by no means saying children should be given a Bible what I am saying is as far as I know this is still America and we still have freedom of religion.
I do not want religion pushed down my throat or the throat of my child but I do not want to deny any other person their freedom of religion either.
It is a parents responsibility to teach a child what their religion is but in the end it is still up to the child to believe as they see fit, whether you agree with your child's decision or not.
I don't mind my children recieving it, but I agree with flat creek girl, and memyselfi, that is not the time or place for that. Although I do not want it given to my child, I am curious what is wrote in the Quran.
I have read bits and pieces , but you can check it out at the public library.
Maybe we should pass out Science books, that disprove many of the "events" in the Bible, at church?
Hmmm...
Might as well pass them out at church they are TEACHING that at school.
I am by no means saying I believe every word in the Bible because Lord Knows I am not saying that at all.
BUT I do believe in order for anyone to make an educated decision about anything, all the information should be provided, on all sides.
Schools still teach the theory of evolution. When they teach creation it is from the basics of the Bible.
I see little difference in teaching it in theory from a text book and actually allowing them to read the Bible.
As far as my child reading the Quran, I would not mind them reading it if they had some interest in it because I realize reading the Quran will not make them Muslim anymore than reading the Bible will make them Christian or reading Harry Potter will make them a wizard.
As far as my child reading the Quran, I would not mind them reading it if they had some interest in it because I realize reading the Quran will not make them Muslim anymore than reading the Bible will make them Christian or reading Harry Potter will make them a wizard.
-- Posted by Dianatn on Tue, Sep 23, 2008, at 9:35 PM
Haha... So very true Diana!
I agree Dianatn . . . I see no problem with them passing out the bibles as long as they are not forcing it on anyone or trying to teach whatever doctrine they believe in no matter who it is and the Gideons don't do that.
Also, I would like to remind people that many scholars believe the bible to be a classic piece of literature whether the events in it are true or not. I think you would be hard pressed to not find a library that does not have a bible in its collection. Believe me, I am usually an advocate of separation of church and state but to be honest, if someone is going to an opinion on something then wouldn't it best if they read the main source it comes from and form an opinion themselves?
I agree with flat creek girl, I don't think that the passing out of Bibles belongs in the public school systems. If it were my child coming home with them, you can bet that I would be showing up at their school to find out why they were given Bibles at public school.
On a totally different note, Michael, your daughters are adorable.
Again, I have to say that a fifth grader is not someone that can form their own opinions. I am not anti-Bible. I read it regularly, more than most Christians I know. There is nothing in it that makes me believe that it should not be read by everyone who is old enough to understand it, or have what they read explained. It (or other religious materials) just should not be given to children without parents consent. It is problematic in and of itself. Just think of the outrage about Tyson's holidays and multiply that by a factor of 3. I see many enlightened people writing here that they would not mind having their child being presented with a Quran, but if it happened yesterday, there would be many in our community that would have a serious problem with it.
Dianatn, I do understand your point, but I think most children recognize the differences between fiction and a set of religious beliefs and react accordingly.
memyselfi, cfrich and flat creek girl:
Personally, I appreciate any effort that is given to try to bring God back into the school. Think back to many years ago. How many shootings, drugs and teenage pregnancies were there in schools. Sure, there were some pregnancies and drugs, but nowhere near what it is now. I, for one, would love to have the teaching of God brought back into the schools.
flat creek girl, evidently the thoughts of families have changed since I moved from Flat Creek. When I lived there the first 18 years of my life, it was a Christian community. What happened? I still know many people who thrive on the love of the Lord in that community. Evidently it's not as close-knit as it used to be.
cfrich, I too would be beating a path to the door of the school that allowed a bible to be given to my child. I would be asking the principal to pass along my sincere appreciation to the giver of the book.
time2relax-
After reading a post you made on another blog, I believe the amount of prejudice must have gone down after you left Flat Creek. (I bet you don't like it when someone gets personal either, huh?)
Flat Creek Girl never said she was not a Christian. She simply said she didn't want Bibles distributed in the schools.
We can help our children learn how to be discerning by reading and talking with them from Day One.
(That doesn't mean turning every instant into a "teachable moment" on propaganda but we can get them to look and listen when they are presented information and think about how credible the material is and whether the sources might have hidden agenda.)
If we start with our own ads,news items,campaign speeches,etc;give our children a variety of things to examine and discuss with us and keep a gold standard of truth before them that they can use for comparison,then they will learn how to judge things critically instead of taking ANYthing at face value.
If we assune we can get by with preventing exposure to the "wrong" ideas,we risk that some stray notion will slip through in the company of someone pleasant enough (or intimidating enough) to be persuasive.
At best,they will have second-hand knowledge of the party line rather than true belief.
Our children should know what they think-not just what others think or want them to believe.
They should seek to know,at least,as much about a competing position as they do their own.
Above all,they should remember the advice of the person in charge of detecting counterfeit money.
He was asked how he learned his craft with all the clever methods available for making worthless bills.
He said that he relied on a thorough familiarity with the genuine article.
Once one is intimately acquainted with what is real,the deviations that show up in whatever's false stand out.
If we refuse to look at something,we can't know for certain if it's valid or not.
If we scrutinize it carefully,we can detect any errors and show others how to detect the facts for themselves.
If we do find something authentic from an unexpected source,we will be that much richer for having made a thorough examination.
Very cute little girls, Mike! I'm sure you cherish them.
What is sad is that this may be the first Bible some of those children have ever seen. The subject of seperation of church and state is indeed a sticky subject now-a-days.
Yes I do , they were tuly a gift from God Thank you.!
I never would be so arrogant as to say I speak for anyone other than myself certainly not a whole community. I do not judge others for their beliefs and I expect the same in return. As for your comment time2relax you do not know me from Adam nor what my religious beliefs may be. That is between me and my God.
My only point in my above posts was that I do not belive religion belongs in our public school system. If we are going to allow Christian teachings in our schools all other religions should have the same rights.
My only point in my above posts was that I do not belive religion belongs in our public school system.
-- Posted by flat creek girl on Wed, Sep 24, 2008, at 5:27 PM
I believe things sure were better when it was in the school.
PB, What exactly do you believe was better? Not a sarcatic queston.
Ask your grandparents--
Bible study was a credited subject in the high school where I went in the 50's and 60's. It was offered as an elective subject.
As far as I know, there has never been any proven evidence that evolution has ever happened. THAT'S WHY IT'S STILL CALLED A THEORY. So how correct are the science books for your children?
The Gideons have the right to hand out their Bibles where and when they want to according to America's Bill of Rights. I WOULD RATHER MY GRAND CHILDREN BE GIVEN A BIBLE INSTEAD OF A CONDOM ANY DAY that some schools pass out without the parents' knowledge or permission. So, where have your parental rights gone?
The Bible says "The Fool has said in his heart there is No God." Ps. 14:1. And also in Prov. 12:15 "The way of a fool is right in his own eyes..."
So, what or who's image are you created in? God's or Scope's?
My grandparents are unfortunately dead or unable to speak and I thought PB could explain it to me, but you will do, if you do not mind. I have never advocated giving children a condom, nor have my children ever been presented one. The science books I have personally seen present evolution as theory and have some information about creationism as a theory also, so pretty accurate. I have never seen God or Scope, so I really do not know how to answer that question.
memyselfi
The answer I would give you is read and study your Bible in a group setting with people who are learned. You can pick each others' brains and reason together for a starter.
memyselfi
Here is one of my theories.
Do you know where man's DNA comes from?
Answer - Dirt
Why?
God made man from dirt.
No longer a theory to me.
jesse sellers, This could go on for days or even lifetimes without conclusion. I respect your theory of dirt and I have no reason to try and disprove it. All I really want to know from PB, or yourself, is exactly what made it better. I am not old enough to know personally, and if I study the Bible with all my remaining time in this world it will not give me any insight as genuine as the actual experience. It is a serious question.
memyselfi
I may have missed your question.
I thought you were asking about God.
ARE you talking about school or life.
PB, What exactly do you believe was better? Not a sarcatic queston.
-- Posted by memyselfi on Thu, Sep 25, 2008, at 12:08 PM
memyselfi,
The finished product which are our leaders of tommorrow.
I believe a better product is produced in any program when the order of recognized authority is represented in the following descending order:
GOD
Country
Principal
Teacher
parent
child
I believe our fore fathers recognized this need also when I read things such as ....
_____
"What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ"
"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible"
By George Washington
_____
I believe we have eroded a long way from what Washington was talking about to where we are today. It happened slowly and deceptively at a pace we all set back and let happen under our very eyes through the use of a system that was originally designed to prevent it from happening.
Parker, all I can say to your statement is amen.
We have come from a nation of people that after World War 2 that was a united self-sufficient nation to where respect for what a man does for his community was the main issue of a man's worth. To me this is the difference and is disturbing to me.
We are now a more self centered nation that is divided. We are no longer self-sufficient, and money seems to be the main thing of our society not people. We measure a man's value by a monetary measure, no longer by moral values.
If you think the garbage man is not important to you, let him stop picking up your garbage for six weeks. We can't all be doctors or lawyers, but his profession is just as important in our society as the doctor or lawyer. We can't all be leaders.
As I was once told by an old red neck, "a man is born to a time and place," and continued by saying, "he had lived in his dad's time, his time, and now he figured he was moving into my time, and he preferred his time over all".
Everyone probably feels the same way . You will probably dislike the time coming. So study about your God from people who know Him, whether it be a minister of God Almighty or a minister of money from wall street. I believe there is no safe or middle ground.
But you are the final judge, so don't go off half cocked. Study both sides--satan's side and Jesus's side to determine which way you want to go in your life to make you happy. ( I believe there are only two sides)
Bottom line- it always comes back to us. It's our decision that makes us happy with our life and time.
jesse,
You are right. We have moved from self-sufficient to self-centered society.
It is so overwhelmingly around us that I actually have to put forth an effort to keep from falling off into a state of complete self-centeredness myself. It seems to be the way of the times. I have to make myself remain aware and gaurd against the pull of it on a daily basis.
There is just two side , light and darkness I choose light.
I think the dark and the light both came from the same source.
I refuse to give over to any usurper what he did not create and seeks to corrupt or destroy.
I figure we have to begin with God and ourselves because that's where we start and end and that pair are the only two beings we are ever guaranteed to be involved with at all times.
If we're lucky,we have parents and other family to guide us and teach us how to give and receive love.
If we're very fortunate,our teachers and community add to the extent of that support.
We learn by example and by the development of our abilities how to sustain one another as we have been supported.
We figure out that one of the pleasures of maturity is being able to tend to one's own needs.
Another is being able to make life better for other people.
Giving and taking,leading and following,struggling and rejoicing are all part of growing into our humanity.
Like a raindrop,we start singly,become part of a whole then become a unit again but each phase is necessary and beautiful.
We lose something if we never participate in something beyond ourselves and we miss out if we've never taken responsibility for our own lives,discovered our own identity or bonded with our Creator one-on-one.
We aren't cogs in a machine or ingredients in a recipe.
Nor is the rest of the universe a set with props for our one person show.
We're part of a synergy that God has built with every component growing and evolving to make something new and unique and right.
Even the entrophy that breaks down one portion helps create its successor.
Everything the Lord touches is a miracle and we can exist within that-because of what we choose or in spite of it.
But,part of our birthright is getting to contribute to what our world and the future become.
We begin by what we take and the opportunities we give others to protect us,nurture us and share their strength.
We end the same way.
In between,we get to do the creating and giving and loving just as our Lord has shown us.
We matter whether we are light or darkness,order or chaos,many or one,transient or infinite because of our common source and our reason for being.
Let Man look upon a hole in the ground and see a pit or a void.
The Architect of Heaven sees a Whole in the earth and sees the site of His next garden or the foundation upon which He will build yet another wonder.
We can limit ourselves by being smug or defeatist or we can decide that God is always making something magnificent occur and we're meant to be in on it.
Quantumcat
I agree with you. Both sides have to come from the same source.
Set in on a discussion and Bible study about both sides coming from the same source one time.
It went this way.
Remember lucifer was created the most beautiful of all the angels. He was called the "son of the morning". It was explained to us that is why sin is so beautiful to mankind. It's temporarily self gratifying.
He was also called 'The king of Tyrus", and "the covering cherub" Ez. 28:11-19.
The discussion lead into sin coming about because of self centerness, which started with the God's blessing of freewill.
God didn't want his creation to be what we would call robots.
lucifer's deep pride, and selfcenterness started the sin wheels rolling. He knew he was most beautiful and reasoned himself more perfect than his creator God. Which got him kicked out of heaven. God then created man in His own image, and man fell for lucifer's cunning ways and out of the grace of God.
Then of course Jesus had to come and pay for our selfcenterness, and pride by living a perfect life on earth towards God.
To appease God's wrath against man Jesus had to suffer and die and present his unstained life and blood as sasacrifice for us. So mankind could have a way back into God's grace.
That leads us to where we are today. Sin is still self gratifying and tempting.
We do have a way out now but it still depends on man's choice just like from the beginning of man's time.
jesse,
So God created man with free will? But no-where in the Bible does it say that God created the angels with free will. So how can Lucifer have deep pride, and self-centeredness if angels don't have free will?
The Bible states that the angels do his bidding without question. That to me sounds like no free will. So how could the Bible be correct, but then not correct?
Then you go on to say, To appease God's wrath? Are you some kind of Mayan chieften or priest? Why in the hell should sacrifices be placed to make some almighty being happy? Does this sound weird to you at all? Sounds a bit sadistic and evil if you ask me. The more and more I read the real Bible; the more I realize how messed up you, marvin and michael are.
Monkey
Think about it 1/3 of the angles followded satan and you say no freewill.
Your other statement sounds like Prov. 12:15 to me.
Evil Monkey,
My windows vista computer stopped working about a month ago. I read a message that said to change my resolution to 1440x900, but no way to type or change it. It then asked me for an operating systems disc. I put it in and it done a PC Doctor check which took hours. The results were... all the sectors on my 250 GB hard drive was "Blocked".
I took it to cyber cat to see if they could fix it. They kept it a week and told me they couldn't do anything. Everything is locked up tight.
My grandson took the hard drive out and tryed to read the files but couldn't do anything either.
In your opinion... is there anything that can be done to retrieve my files?? The computer would never let me copy my files to a disc so I have lost all my files if not!
Sorry for interupting everyones good time on this blog.
UL,
So the files are not accessible at all? Can you give me a quick call to 536-1279.
HmMMM Evil, Did you not watch City of Angels?
The angels on there had Free Will, Nicolas Cage even fell to earth to become mortal because he fell in love with Meg Ryan :>)
I would rather be "messed up for Christ" that messed up for anything else.
Diana,
LOL, I don't think angels had free will in the Bible though. That's why humans were so special.
Evil Monkey,
Sorry I didn't get back with you. Will try to call Sunday if that is okay?
The angels were made less than man because the angels were created to serve mankind. However, Jesus on the other hand was made less than the angels because He was born in the flesh and blood and had to die an earthly death which angels can not do.
Angels don't have a free will as far as I can tell because they serve God day and night and are lower then humans and have to serve them also. If they choose not to serve, they must answer to God before they desert.
In Genesis, the angels went to God and asked if they could go down to earth and take wifes of the women down here.
Yeah call Sunday, anytime after 12pm is fine.
Angels do have freedom of choice just like humans.
God knew what could and would happen but, he wanted them and us to worship him by choice. God loved all his creation not just man alone.
(1) 1/3 of his angels followded satan when God removed him from his presents. Do you think that was his choice or planned that?
(2 You say they asked God about the females (now what did he tell them)? Then what happened next?
The main difference between mankind and angels is (1) angels have no soul they can't be redeemed after they go against God like us. (2) They were given eternal life.(3) We are two genders, and they are one they can't procreate.
We too will do his bidding like angels if we follow him, or we too will be cast out.
Ps
Excuse me they can't procreate their on kind because no females of there gender.
ANYONE!
Please show me where the bible says God gave man a free will. I have never read it, only heard people talk about it.
Every creation has a free will to obey or not. It was the purpose of the angels to serve God so their free will choice is... do it or die.
Our free will is obey and accept Christ and serve man and god or die.
But wait! Parkerbros claims that once you accept Christ, you can sin and not obey his word nor His commandments and still be forgiven forever. Parkerbros doesn't need a free will, he can just do anything he wants to anytime he wants to and not be punished for it... ever. He is always in God's grace and never has to worry about going to hell.
Wonder what the Anti-christ will have to say about that when he demands the mark of the beast.
But wait! Parkerbros claims that once you accept Christ, you can sin and not obey his word nor His commandments and still be forgiven forever. Parkerbros doesn't need a free will, he can just do anything he wants to anytime he wants to and not be punished for it... ever. He is always in God's grace and never has to worry about going to hell.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Sep 28, 2008, at 4:50 PM
Unique-Lies,
You could come to joy with assurance also if you would get past trying to save yourself.
You, me nor anyone will ever come to being righteous on our own. It is an imputed righteousness that comes from faith in the attoning work of Christ.
If it could be generated by our own works and effort we might have something to boast about.
Have faith in the Work of Christ, not of the work of uniquelies. Yours, mine and all the good works of every human combined and multiplied times a million would not be a sufficient attonement nor appease the GOD who brought forward HIS Plan of Salvation.
It is such a simple plan it confounds the wise.
I thank God for being born an idiot who can understand and accept it.
parkerbrothers,
What I think he is saying is, you cannot keep sinningon purpose and expect forgiveness each time. That is like if you keep speeding down the road, Can you expect to keep your license? This God of wrath you keep glorifying cannot accept blatant disregard to his laws, can he?
Unique
This verse may help you to determine about God giving man freewill.
Duet. 30:19
"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you,that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live."
It tells me the choice is up to me, but I have to be in unison with God's will.
Evil Monkey,
Looking back up at some of the previous post I see where I had erased part of one of them and forgot to retype it.
My beliefs would have been better stated by saying that all your sins are forgiven both past, present and future and although you can and will sin after salvation you will not be content with it and will try to move yourself further and further away from it.
The more I study the word of God and see His perfection the more I see the imperfection in me and the purpose of a needed Saviour which in turn generates joy knowing I have an advoctate.
You are right when you said..." This God of wrath you keep glorifying cannot accept blatant disregard to his laws, can he?"
This same God cannot accept any sin. Hence the need for a propitiation.
Evil Monkey,
Also I wanted to clarify that I do not believe this God is not just a God of wrath.
Wrath does however have to be recognized as part of the total nature of a loving God. He is what He is.
jesse sellers,
Thank you jesse. I am aware of the freewill that God gave us. These verses are scattered all through the bible telling us we have the right to choose between good and evil, God or satan, every lasting life or eternal damnation, light or darkness, love or hate, etc.
I was just curious if the word freewill was in the bible somewhere. I could never find it with all the lookup tools that I have access to.
parkerbrothers
Wow! Darn, my Bible speaks of the wrath of God but it never says that my God is a God of wrath.
When Jesus returns we will see this wrath of God in Jesus Christ as He cleans up the earth of all the sinners and people who worship the beast or has his mark.
All the christians are waiting pateintly for Christ to return so they can watch Him as He uses His wrath to get even with the world for what they did to Him and the things it said about Him. Christ is going to return as a very angry God not as a loving God who is here to heal the sick and wipe away every tear. He will rid the earth of the evil people first, so He can spend 1,000 years with His Saints, teaching them their new jobs as kings and priest.
Everyone living in those days may very well think God is a God of Wrath, but it is only the wrath of God that you will see and feel.
Just for the record: I never said I could nor would be saved by my works. I said the only way I could be saved now is by some miracle like not giving in to the beast and being beheaded for what I believe. The bible says anyone who does not accept the mark of the beast nor worship the beast nor his image and is beheaded or killed for Jesus' sake will be in the first resurrection and reign with Christ for 1,000 years. If that happened it would only be by the grace of God not me.
So now you can put that story about me to rest and concentrate on your own sins.
Sorry parkerbros, I can not believe what I want to believe in the bible and not the rest of the bible.
In your opinion... is there anything that can be done to retrieve my files?? The computer would never let me copy my files to a disc so I have lost all my files if not!
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sat, Sep 27, 2008, at 7:10 PM
Try contacting someone at the Tennessee Tech Center. Sometime the computer dept. works on individual computers.
Unique-Lies,
Sorry parkerbros, I can not believe what I want to believe in the bible and not the rest of the bible.
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Sep 29, 2008, at 9:54 AM
Unique-Lies,
I agree that you should and have to believe the entire Bible and not just what part you want to believe. That was kinda of my whole point I wanted you to see so your fear and trembling could be replaced with joy and peace.
I still believe the entire Bible proclaims the Good News of an appeasement for our many sins.
I am sorry though we disagree on the sufficiency of the sacrafice of Christ. I believe it alone is sufficient to provide appeasement.
You are entitled to your theory that your only chance of having your sins forgiven are to have your head chopped off. I too would tremble if my faith was based on that. What if you die before you have the opportunity to have your head chopped off.
Your theory actually makes salvation now dependant upon a third party that has to perform.
As Christ proclaimed "It is Finished".
Who knows if you will be lucky enough to have this head chopper perform for you and bring you salvation.
Unique
I like you have never seen it spelled out word for word. Just verses like the one above.
Faith in Jesus sacrifice to cover our sins is the only hope any of us have. I don't believe his blood is limited as you seem to believe.
time2relax
Isn't Tennessee Tech Center in Nashville? That's too much gas for me to take it there. I had it in one shop locally for 2 or 3 weeks and they couldn't do anything. I couldn't afford to send my computer to college, lol.
I will have to take the lost. I am going to try to use Preferred Computer Solutions, but it was closed today. Maybe I will have better luck tomorrow. I did locate some 55 gallon plastic barrels this afternoon, so TODAY wasn't a total lost.
Unique-Lies,
I do not recommend hardly anyone for anything anymore but there is a guy who builds and works on our computers that I would stick my neck out for and recommend. He will not take 2 to 3 weeks to diagnose your computer problem. We have experienced similar problems as you described and he restored everything over a weekend.
His name is David Hannon and his number is 931-703-7199.
I hope he does not chop my head off for sticking my neck out for him. (Just a joke for you Unique)
parkerbrothers
Thanks for the computer help. I will try David next if problem still exists.