Why limit yourself to the how, why, who, and when? Just take comfort in the fact that you personally know it is going to happen someday and quit trying to be a modern day prophet that you are not. Your views on Armageddon are so specific that they have the opposite effect on non-believers than you intend, because it creates more skeptics than believers.

You may not claim to be a prophet, but with all the details you mention you can not cover up your attempt at prophecy.

Michael,

I say Amen to what you say. Some people will never see the signs of the end time no matter if it smacks them in the face, and that is what's going to happen when Jesus does return. Keep on trying to tell the non believers, and maybe just maybe some will listen. I pray they will for their sake. The end of time isn't going to be a pretty thing for he non believers. Like you said michael there will always be skeptics but wait til Judgement day and see what they think then. I choose eternal life with Jesus, nathan.evans what do you choose?

michaelbell, you said:

"We always hear about the battle of Armageddon, the last stand for good and evil, where good will prevail and the evil of the world will be no more, I have read the end of the book and Jesus and his followers do win.

Sorry if I spoiled it for the non-believers!"

I know what you are saying, however this IS NOT the last stand for good and evil.

The battle of Armageddon is the last battle between good and evil in our first lifetime.

There is another battle between good and evil after we are resurrected and are tempted by Satan again for a short while. This will be the last battle when Satan brings his armies against God's people and fire from heaven comes down and kills the evil. Again God wins the battle against the evil.

I recommend everyone reading the book for themselves thou.

Amen,

Prophets are FORTH tellers-not foretellers.

It's their job to get the truth out.

But,in a sense,the prophet is like the meteorologist or the kid in study hall who urges everyone to be ready for the pop quiz or locker check.

What if their conclusions aren't on the money?

What if we stock up on food and fuel and the storm passes over?

What if a week goes by with no test or examination of lockers?

Then,we'll have gotten prepared for nothing,right?

Not really.

Someday,there will be storms,exams and locker searches.

They make come sooner for some of us than others.

A little readiness isn't going to do us any harm and might save us a lot of grief.

So...

Put batteries in the smoke detector,load up the car with blankets,jumper cables and such.

Store water,cat litter and MRE's.

Cover the plants and put an inflated beachball in the fish pond.

Update your important documents and tell the people you care about that you love them.

Right some old wrongs and put on fresh underwear.

If we prepare for the worst and hope for the best,we might have to endure a few extra days of peace of mind.

We might have more time than we needed to preserve what matters to us.

How would we feel if we got ready for our deaths or the end times and everything was business as usual for the next thirty years?

I guess we'd feel about the same as if we'd secured our homes (physically and financially),learned what was in our textbooks,taken care of our bodies and attended to our cars' brakes and engines.

We'd be as misput as if we'd hugged our families in the morning only to have them home safe at bedtime.

Getting right with God might prepare us to face a coming disaster.

It can also be the source of our greatest pleasure.

We might be willing to risk that we'll never have to face the worst in this life or the next.

But,why pass on something that,in itself,will bring happiness?

I think God will accept our souls even if we look to Him for "fire insurance."

I think He'll accept our good deeds even if we equate serving Him to eating a certain cereal so we can get enough box tops for a prize.

But,loving God to get into Heaven is like eating chocolate ice cream for the health effects of the anti-oxidants and calcium.

Sure,it's good for you but it offers a stimulus and sweetness NOW so enjoyable that we can crave it for its own sake and let the benefits we derive from it be a bonus.

michaelbell,

Actually God kicks ass at Armageddon. Armageddon is the last war on earth where the kings of the earth come against Jesus, the king of kings and Lord of Lords.

Armageddon is NOT the war where all the countries lead by Russia and China (the number of whom is as the sand of the sea) comes against Israel.

This is where the kings of the earth come against this invader from outerspace (the clouds). Christ defeats them and has the fowls of the earth eat the flesh of all the armies he kills and their horses.

It is after this Armageddon that God turns the kings of the earth against the city of Babylon. Then Christ has his angels rapture the evil up and throw them into the burning fire, leaving his righteous people here on earth for the 1st resurrection.

After the thousand years are up and after the rest of the dead are resurrected and satan is released to deceive the nations again...

Rev 20:7-9

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

This is not the country of Israel! These are not the Jews who have come home! These are the "Saints"! Who are they and where did they come from?....Rev 20:4-6

and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Then we have the judgment and the second death.

This is the last war where the armies are like the sands of the beach and where the armies come against his people the Saints, not the Jews.

Armageddon is when the kings of the earth send their armies against Christ when he returns.

Then we have the judgment and the second death.

Russia and Red China doesn't join forces and come against Israel. All the countries including the good ol' USA join forces as a one world army and goes out to defeat Christ when he returns, but are defeated by Christ and his angels.

After everyone is resurrected satan goes out and gathers people to do war again, but with God's Elite. God sends fire down to destroy them all. End of story.

Sorry Parkerbrothers, you have me mixed up with your Jehovah Witnesses. I don't belong to any church. I am of the Charismatic faith, but not belonging to any.

My body is the temple of God so I worship God in my own temple in my own way. It doesn't include your animal sacrifices nor beheading axe welders. It is private between God and I where I can confess what is necessary and pray for anything I wish.

I have spoken to Jehovah Witnesses and even read some of their works. I have to admit, they do know more than you and most religions, but they are not the religion I want. They do have their misunderstandings about the scriptures just like I do and everyone else, but by far they are way ahead of most churches in finding the truth.

Even the Catholic religion needs overhauling. They believe by paying more money to the priest, he can pray your loved one out of hell and you can be forgiven with hail mary's, while the Morman's do not believe Jesus was resurrected in the flesh and blood, or so I was told by a Morman. That is one of the answers that determines whether or not you are anti-christ.

Since we are now answering questions please answer this one and I will leave you alone.

You read the Book of Revelation several hundred times, so please tell me if you can, why in Chapter 7:1-8 the angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God, sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads? The number of them was 144,000 jews.

Please tell me the reason for this and why 144,000 and what they were going to do or not do because of this seal?

This is before the "rapture".

The bible just stops there until we read in chapter 14:1-5 that these very same 144,000 servants having the Lamb's father's name written in their foreheads are standing with the Lamb.

We read that these 144,000 are virgins, they were redeemed from the earth, they go wherever the lamb goes, they were redeemed from among man and not women, and they are the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

This is after the "Rapture".

Nothing else is said about them so why was anything written about them at all if it wasn't important?

I agree with you that Paul doesn't need any tuning. Paul is sleeping now and has been for a long, long time.

I agree with you that Paul doesn't need any tuning.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 3:00 PM

Unique-Lies,

Glad to see you have changed your story. Paul never needed any "tuning" from you.

Paul is sleeping now and has been for a long, long time.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 3:00 PM

Unique-Lies,

It does not sound like Paul was planning on much of a nap to me?

Philippians 1:22-24

22But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

23For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

24Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

First let me say "you did it again". Posted answers with only the verse numbers, but not the book nor chapter. Most evil of you. What do you have to hide? Except the rest of the verses.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 5:31 PM

Unique-Lies,

Sorry unique here is a repost with the chapter and verse. nothing evil about. Perhaps a little studipity on my part for missing it.

2 Corinthians 5

6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Yet Paul said "those who are asleep will rise first", so Paul had to know when we die we sleep.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 5:31 PM

Unique-Lies,

I think when you view all of Paul teachings it is clear what he is referring to.

Please tell me the reason for this and why 144,000 and what they were going to do or not do because of this seal?

Unique-Lies here is a my view of the 144,000

I believe they are missionaries out of Israel and they will have a gift of tongues and will speak in every language and dialect on the face of the earth. These missionaries , sealed of God and sent by God, will announce the coming Kingdom to every tribe and every kindred on the face of the earth who have never heard of the Gospel of the Grace of God.

Those who hear the message and receive it will make up the number in Rev. 7:9... The great multitude that no man can number.

Those who refuse to beleive the message of the 144,000 and who follow the Antichrist instead, will receive the mark of the beast and will be damned(II Thess. 2:1-12) The unpardonable sin after the Rapture will be the mark of the beast.

The 144,000 are special messagers of God to fulfill a mission during a specific time. They will be delivered from the devil and from enemies of God, they will be protected and the devil cannot destroy them.

The preaching of the Gospel will continue throughout the seven-year period. (The reign of the Antichrist.) At the close of the Tribulation the battle of Armageddon will be fought. After the battle of Armageddon the glorious Kingdom will be ushered in, Jesus will sit on the throne in Jerusalem in the temple, and will reign for one thousand years. We, the born again, will reign with him (Rev. 20:1-6)

-> Unique-Lies,

Sorry unique, it is a little too long to post but I will give it to you if you like. It is not their literature but rather a booklet about them. You could save yourself the time though and just scroll through the archives and reread your post. They sound almost identical. Almost, with just a little different twist or "tuning" as you like to call it.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers

First reread my posts and copy/paste where I have ever used the word tuning, tune or tuned!

I don't need to reread my post because I know what I am talking about.

I would think that if the Jehovah Witnesses believe a lot like I do about the bible and now you have found some other book writer/group/religion/cult/preacher who acknowledges the things/way I believe, well I would think twice about it before rejecting it as a Lie.

-> Unique-Lies,

We have been over the 144,000 at least it seems 145,000 times. Save me some time and just reread about the whipped horse in the archives.

I do not think pruning your misconception for you again will help you bear any good fruit. I have to be contend with just letting you hang on your own tree. (At least until your third party chops the tree down) :) :)

Amen!

Very Good answer parkerbrothers.

I asked for your honest interpretation of the verses and you can't answer it except by answering with an unbiblical and even an unholy answer. You are good leadership material.

At least bellbuckletn gave it an honest stab at answering it to the best of his/her ability. Even michaelbell agreed with him/her.

Unique,

You left out the good news?? of yours about the third party last chance saviour you promote for souls.

Does your saviour not request you to spread the good news for him like our Saviour does for Him.

If you are a true born again Christian (having the Holy Ghost sealed in your heart) then you shouldn't worry about all the events, your protected by God. Your reward for going through what ever you have to go through here on earth is the Kingdom of Heaven.

I think sometimes you can spend so much time trying to figure out what every verse means and what order everything is suppose to be in that we miss what God is trying to tell us. Sort of like not seeing the forest for trees.

parkerbrothers,

All of you preach the good news. I teach the good news that ya'll hate to talk about or even admit is in the bible.

It is all written in the bible to help his people in the end times and in their walk with him. If it offends you I feel sorry for you.

God has used other people to kill people he wanted punished. God has used angels to remove people from his earth. God has even struck out to punish and destroy people Himself that sinned against him or that he despised.

God is a very loving and forgiving God but we all know He can be very wrathful when He wants to or needs to be.

Christ came the first time to forgive. He done an excellent job of giving his life for everyone's sins. Jesus who is perfect and without sin, became sin to take all our sins away. Just how many times you require him to do that for you, I don't know.

When Christ returns, he is coming to judge and destroy the wicked and non believers.

Christ won't be forgiving anyone when he returns because the bible says that he who sins now will continue to sin and he who doesn't sin now will not sin then. God will harden our hearts so we will stay the way we are when Christ returns. There will be no changing our ways.

Either you are good or bad!

Christ isn't even going to judge you, his angels will.

They will determine if you are good or evil.

Never heard that before did you?

Read The Parable of the Weeds (Matt 13:24-30) and The Parable of the Weeds Explained (Matt 13:36-43)

Jesus tells us that his angels are sent out to judge us and to take the evil ones out of the earth and throw them into the fire.

Boy!

Now ain't that something?

All this time everyone thought Jesus or his angels were going preach the gospel first, then Jesus would forgive everyone he could, then judge everyone but forgive you, of course, if you needed saving and then throw all the bad guys into hell.

These things are not secrets, they are printed right there in God's word, the bible. All you have to do is read his word and let the Holy Spirit reveal them to you. I don't make these things up. They are published in His Word. If you abide in His Word you will know these things and the truth will set you free.

WOW! Now everyone hates me and I am anti-christ because I tell you the truth and everyone says the Lord will judge everyone, not the angels!

Here is the secret! The Lord does judge everyone, but not until after everyone is Resurrected and the evil are killed by fire from heaven.

It is at this time that we are all judged by the Lord. Everyone who was ever born on this earth, except the 144,000 and those who were in the 1st Resurrection.

Then there is the second death and there will no longer be any sinners on the earth.

There will be extraterrestrial bodies (heavenly bodies) and terrestrial bodies (earthly bodies) but nothing you do will be a sin. It will be impossible to sin. This is God's kingdom. We have that here on earth when we are born again. We have the kingdom of God within us and so it is impossible to sin. Oh well, that is another story.

So you see parkerbrothers, it is all good news even when it sounds like bad news, because it is God's word to his people, so they will know the truth and the truth can set them free, because they know what is to come ahead and how it happens. No shock for them when it happens the way it does.

To others it will look like the anti-christ who does the miracles and good things for show is the real Christ, and Christ who has come down and started killing people is the wicked one.

When Christ destroys the armies who come against him, it will shock the world, because they are behind the armies that are trying to save them from this unearthly invader.

When all this happens, everyone will have been brained washed into believing the beast is the Lord God their savior.

We today know this isn't true, but look at all the people who really don't know anything about Christ. It won't be long before God doesn't even exist in the minds of the people. That is when the anti-christ will win the people over to their despair.

bellbuckletn,

When the 6th seal is opened that is when there is a great earthquake, the sun turned black, the moon turns blood red and the stars in the sky fall to earth.

The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

This scares everyone half to death because Christ is returning, but death will not come. They hid themselves from his face, for the great day of their wrath has come. (Rev 6:12-17)

After that John see the 144,000 being sealed.(Rev 7:1-8)

In (Rev 9:3,4) Locust tortured everyone except these 144,000 Jews.

3 And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth.

4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

Nothing else is said about them until chapter 14.

(Rev 14:1-5)

These 144,000 are standing on Mount Zion with Christ when he returns.

1. they are standing with Christ on Mount Zion.

2. they have their father's name written in their foreheads.

3. men who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins.

4. they follow the Lamb everywhere he goes.

5. they are redeemed from among men, being first fruits unto God and Jesus.

6. they are redeemed FROM the Earth

7. they are without fault before the throne.

Now in chapter 14:6

John sees another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, kindred, tongue and people.

So these 144,000 aren't the ones who preach the gospel. Another angel does that.

So... what is their purpose in life (or maybe I should say... afterlife) and why have they been sealed in their foreheads? Why were they "Redeemed" FROM the earth, unless they are the ones who were in the "Rapture" and returned again with Christ when he returned as his lifelong warriors/servants, as the bible suggests?

You are one hundred percent (100%) right about being protected by God if you have the Holy Ghost sealed in your heart. That is why I don't fear the things I teach and neither should other christians. They should just know the truth because it will be twisted in reverse by the time the anti-christ gets through deceiving the world. It pays to know what the real truth is now! It is already being converted into lies and a lot of it is just kept hidden from the world.

parkerbrothers calls it a lack of "Good News", but in reality, it is the best news a christian can hear if they want to understand how the anti-christ will win over the world as the bible tells us he will.

parkerbrothers

I don't fear the things I teach. I fear Christ who can take not only our life but our soul also.

I am a sinner so I am a fool not to feel fear when I dream of him returning. He doesn't have to be standing in front of me or even heading my way. Just feeling him coming in the air makes me feel it has come to the last scene where it matters the most. And we are not even going to be judged by the Lamb at this time.

Before Christ returns, if we are alive, you will be just like the rest of us, running for cover and praying for the boulders to crush you so you don't have to look him in his face.

Say what you will now, but the end will come. Bigger men than you have cried out "momma" when the end was coming for them.

There were men and women both powerful and weak, rich and poor who took their own lives just because the IRS came after them and threatened to imprison them.

Yet, you and about 99% of all christians say they look forward to the return of Christ and are not scared of him.

Let's see what that will be like.

The anti-christ Beast will be killing people left and right who won't worship him nor his image. The parents will turn in their sons and daughters and the sons and daughters will turn their parents into the Beast, just like they do for the IRS now.

The sun will be black as sackcloth and the moon blood red. The stars in the heaven will fall to earth and there will be loud noises and trumpet sounds and the heaven will disappear like a scroll being rolled up. Or better yet, a window shade rolling up unexpectedly.

All the christians will rejoice because the Lord is returning, Watch out for that falling star! There's another one. Don't bother me now! You know the Beast is looking for you because you won't worship his image. You have nowhere to go or to hide because you never accepted the mark of the beast so you can't rent a shelter or even buy food and supplies to get you through this new tribulation period.

But Christ is coming very soon now and every thing will be okay.

It has to be pitch black by now except for the fires burning around you everywhere, but every eye shall see Christ when he returns. It's like bombs going off all around you. you can't think straight and certainly can not talk to your preacher on your cellphone. What will you do? You can text them and ask what you should do! No, it's too late, the heat from the falling stars have destroyed communication devices everywhere.

The one world army has been called out to bring peace to this chaos. Soon they will destroy this Terrorist causing all this terror and destruction.

No, wait, we are talking about God doing all this destruction. No. don't send the armies after Christ. What chance would Christ have against this Beast and his image who has just convenced us that HE IS GOD. What is going on? (Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?)

Why is God letting this happen to us? Why doesn't Christ return and bring peace here on earth like we have been taught all our lives?

Ouch, the heat is killing me. I should be dead by now but I can't die. This is unbelieveable. It can't be happening.

As Christ sets his feet on the earth, the armies come after him with rockets, missles and nuclear weapons of mass destruction, but nothing stops him. (Isaiah 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper)

Awe, that's No fair! You read the end of the story so it doesn't scare you.

Sorry, but all the Christians will be slipping and sliding in their own crap just like everyone else, because they don't really know what is going to happen to them until it's all over. There is a lot of things going on at this time that are not listed in the bible.

P.S. The Christians are gone.

Unique-Lies,

My earthly father chastised me rightfully so every time I went against his law. However he did so out of love for a child needing direction. He never turned his back on me and was always there to protect me from harm by others.

How much greater of a Heavenly Father we have!

Have you even heard of an earthly father that turned his back on an adopted child of his that done wrong the first time after he had adopted it much less a heavenly adoptive Father that would?

You would worry the brass horns off a billy goat.

jesse sellers writes:

The 144,000 Jews left do teach the Gospil to the people, that is why they were left here. When we are raptured out.

Non Christians on earth will not see Jesus during the rapture, because he doesn't step foot on earth at that time.

-- Posted by jesse sellers on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 3:21 PM

P.S. The Christians are gone.

-- Posted by jesse sellers on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 3:24 PM

Let me see now!

Somehow, the 144,000 Jews who were "redeemed from the earth" are "left here on the earth" to teach the gospel to the people, when "all the christians are Raptured up"... according to jesse

How can that possibly be true? When were the Jews being redeemed from the earth to be with Jesus forever change places with all the Christians in the world, both dead and alive?

Let's l@@k at jesse's plan. All the Christians are raptured up, both the dead and alive, off the face of the earth and from the graves. According to the Christians, everyone is a Christian these days, only the 144,000 Jews and a handful of sinners would be left on the earth. The 144,000 Jews are suppose to teach these gentile sinners about the gospel.

Well, without any distractions, except where the hell did everyone go...? Remember ALL the Christians were raptured up and no one seen it happen because it happened in the clouds. I believe the clouds can be seen from earth, but given the circumstances the souls may not be seen. However, when several billion people just disappear from the earth...?

So when Christ returns there are only 144,000 Jews and a handful of sinners, less all the sinners the Jews have converted, left on earth.

But the Word of God tells us that the 144,000 Jews come back with Christ when he returns because they are standing with Christ on Mount Zion. Funny how that works. All the Christians exchanged places with the Jews and were Raptued up in the clouds, but then the 144,000 Jews come back with Jesus. God's Word doesn't say anything about the multitude returning with Christ and they were allegedly suppose to remain with Christ forever. Only the 144,000 Jews are mentioned.

Jesus is returning to get his righteous, but he goes about it in a different way than originally taught. Jesus has his angels take the sinners out and throw them into the fire Leaving Jesus's righteous people. Who are these Righteous people? According to Jesse, that would only consist of 144,000 Jews and some converted sinners.

So now, this presents a big problem. Since the 144,000 Jews converted some of the Gentile sinners, how and when do they get raptured up to be with the Lord forever? They are now Christians and have the same right to be raptured up in the clouds to be with the Lord. So how in God's name would that happen? I have never read anything about this!

Now for the Resurrection... who is left on earth and in their graves to be Resurrected? Well, according to Jesse, there are some sinners left who died and weren't in the rapture PLUS all the sinners Jesus had to throw into the fire because the 144,000 Jews couldn't convert them.

But wait! The 1st Resurrection according to the Word of God, consists of all the people who were Martyred for Jesus and God.

Oops! I think Jesse raptured them up because they were Christians. Now the 144,000 Jews and the Sinners they converted are the only people left on earth alive, and all the dead are sinners now, because ALL the Christian were raptured up... except these newly converted sinners the 144,000 Jews taught and the 144,000 Jews themselves. Shouldn't the Jews be raptured up also with new Christians who missed the firt Rapture, since they are Christians too?

So the 144,000 Jews and their converted sinners are the only ones who could possibly be in the 1st Resurrection. They will reign with Christ for 1,000 years then the rest of the dead are Resurrected. Who are they if not the 144,000 Jews nor any Christian who has already been raptured up? Why it is all the sinners who have dead.

It seems that the Bible has been lying all about this 1st and 2nd Resurrection all this time if Jesse's story is true. To finish the story, the 144,000 would be exempt from the second death, so only the original sinners would be tried and convicted at the second death.

All the Christians stay with Jesus forever in heaven and the 144,000 Jews get to stay on earth all by themselves.

No more wars with the neighbors for them!

And if anyone believes that, the anti-christ, false prophet and the beast won't have any trouble misleading YOU! But then, the Bible tells us that they will be able to deceive the world, even his Elite if he doesn't return sooner.

Actually a herd of billy goats.

bellbuckletn,

Rev 14:3

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

In verse 3 we see that no one could learn that song except the 144,000 Jews, which WERE REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH. It also tells us that they sung the song before the throne, and the four beasts, and the elders. (These are the creatures who are in heaven with God, so the 144,000 have to be in heaven when they sing this song before the throne, the four beasts and the elders.) These 144,000 were taken up to heaven before the throne then return to earth when Jesus returns. It is so simple to understand these things, but no one gets it.

How do these 144,000 get redeemed from the earth, sing before the throne in Heaven then be with Christ on Mount Zion when Christ returns, after the revealing of the man of sin, without being Raptured up?)

In verses 6 and 7 John tell us that he saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth and to every nation, kindred and tongue and people. SO the Bible says it was another angel spreading the gospel not the 144,000.

Rev 14:6,7

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

You state,,. if the Christians aren't here on the earth anymore then who is here to continue spreading the word of God... the 144,000.

No! It plainly reads that another angel has the gospel to preach to them that dwell on the earth.

In your version, if all the Christians are rapture up off the earth, who would be left here on earth to witness to? Jesus sends his angels to destroy the sinners so no one would be left on earth except the 144,000 Jews.

The angels never gave salvation to anyone but they have always carried the Word of God and other messages of God to earthlings ever since time began.

I've talked to some who think we Christians won't get raptured up before the antichrist comes and we are still here during that time, because it says there will be a great number who fall away from the church. And they think its when they are faced with getting the no.666 put on them or their lives will be taken.

The only other thing I can think of off hand that would cause a great no. to turn away from their religion would be if our government made it illegal. And if you were caught it would be death.

Like Daniel and the lions den. And Meshack, Shadrack and Abendego when they were put in the furnace.

I will take my herd of billy goats, parkerbrothers gave me, and head for the mountains.

I pray you will all fair as well as Meshack, Shadrack and Abendego when the beast and false prophet come because all you Christians WILL be here when all the Tribulations begin and right up to the moment Christ returns to get you. I Hope the signs in the heavens don't scare you away and make any of you lose your little cloud ride back to earth.

You see when Christ returns the Heavens will roll up and disappear so there is no heaven to go to until God creates the new heaven aka "The New City of Jerusalem".

When Christ returns He will reign with those in the 1st Resurrection for a thousand years, so the Lord will be here on earth for quite so time when he returns. He will even be here after the rest of the dead are raised because he is here to defeat satan and all his followers when they surround his people to make war with them, then he has the job of judging everyone and oh yeah, don't forget that second death thing, so all the Christians get raptured up just to come back to earth and sit around until the Lord does all his worldly duties of getting the earth ready for the 2nd Resurrection,releasing satan from the pit, sending fire down from heaven to kill the followers of satan and cast satan in the lake of fire, judging all of mankind and eliminating the trash.

Finally Jesus goes up into the new Jerusalem to stay forever with his people.

The bible doesn't say what ever happened to the 144,000 Jews, which all of you Christians say had to stay down here on earth. But the Bible reads that they are redeemed FROM the earth and go where so ever Christ goes forever.

In the beginning, God had angels in heaven with him. They were all male angels and eventually some of these angels wanted to come to earth to take wives of the women here on earth. That cursed them forever.

Now in the last book of the Bible, in the last days, God speaks of redeeming from the earth, 144,000 male virgins to go wherever the Lamb goes forever. Gods intentions are to only have male virgins follow Jesus everywhere he goes and not men and women. That's almost like replacing his original angels with these 144,000 Jews.

However, it is Interesting how ALL the Christians will read words into the scriptures to get their joy ride to the clouds at the cost of the 144,000 Jews.

I sure don't want to be a part of that.

bellbuckletn,

Humm! All the angels named in the bible have mens' names. No women names at all.

The angels saw the women on earth and had to have them as their wives, so I would think they do have male parts! Otherwise they would not had a desire for the women here on earth.

The 144,000 were male virgins and they were taken from the earth (redeemed from the earth), so I would say that the gender issue is important. (not so much as sex goes, but important to God just the same).

Those who make it to the new heaven will not breed because God has all the souls He wants there in heaven.

They will also be souls or heavenly bodies of some kind so they would not breed.

On earth thou, that is a different story. Without any proof as to how it will really be... those on earth may have earthly bodies because of the atmosphere. We don't know what the new earth will be like but I am betting, just like it was in the beginning.

Only the Righteous will be allowed in the new city of Jerusalem. Those on the new earth aren't allowed in the new heaven. Only the kings and priests can go from heaven to earth and back again.

Rev 22:14,15

14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.

15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Whoa! I thought all these people were burned up in the Lake of fire, but now I read they are outside the walls of the city!

So... Who knows what it will really be like?

The bible says that Jesus said, "no man comes unto me except by my Father" and "ye have not chosen me,..."

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

We don't have the Free Will to find Christ, only to accept or deny him after God leads us to him.

If our name is written in the book of life, God will send us to His Son. If not we will never know Christ. After I started looking for Christ I never found anything for years, so I know what those scriptures mean. I had to hit rock bottom before anything happened.

bellbuckletn,

You must have read my post right.

God knows from the beginning, if your name will be in the book of life or not.

God is the one who puts the desire (or Grace) to find His Son in the hearts of people. Without God's input, we are not even interested in listening to god's Word or anything about religion.

Then Jesus forgives us and redeems us from the devil and our sinful ways, IF we ask him to. By Jesus' blood God purchases our body and soul. They now belong to God without question, no matter what we do with our lives.

If our names are written in the book of life, we will accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.

These names were written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, not when they became saved. We are destined before we are born.

So yes, that is pretty much how the bible reads, with one exception. I believe God may give his grace to others who do nothing with it. We get God's grace, but it is up to us after that to come to Jesus. That is where the freewill comes in. If we follow Jesus we get saved. If we don't follow Jesus we are not saved, but God knows this from the foundation of the world. If He writes your name in it, you will find Christ and be saved.

Revelation 17:8

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

We all need to continue in his word. More and more understanding will come as we stay in his word. These blogs of Michaelbell's are great. They make people, who are interested, go to their bibles a lot to look up verses to see if that is what it really says.

I have planted a lot of seeds as a Christian believer but my seeds are being trampled and destroyed by others. I can only plant them and let the believers do as they will.

I have enjoyed our conversations and if I think you do not understand how I am presenting the truth I will go over it again and again, until I think you have it or don't want to believe what I teach. I use scripture to back up what I say, so it isn't my words but the word of God.

Sorry if I come on like a know it all, but when you know, that you know, that you know, that you know, well... you just don't doubt it! Doesn't mean I am not wrong, just means that I am very positive about what I know.

And for God sake, don't think that I know it all, because I DO NOT.

bellbuckletn,

You must have read my post right.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 3:51 PM

Unique-Lies,

You must have read bellbuckletn's post wrong. I do not think they were agreeing with your misguided concept on predistination.

It actually sound like they had a very different take on it which I agree with. I think they were telling you they disagree but was being very nice about it which is comendabale. The only down side to being overly nice about it is it leads you to think they were accepting your predistination concept?

I may be wrong but I think you misunderstood their comment like you do a lot of things.

Either way, I disagree with your newest concept on predistination.

jesse sellers,

Sorry jesse I didn't see your post til now.

Your post before my answer to it was so far from what the bible says that it made absolutely no sense at all went against what the bible teaches. You make the bible out to be one big lie with your rapture.

If you read your post and the bible along with it you will see your tale doesn't go along with the scriptures so if we believe what you say the bible is a lie.

I know better but others may not.

-> Here is an idea that might help your redemption outside of being a martyr for Jesus, give your life for someone else. No man shows a greater love and Jesus will honor that.

-- Posted by jesse sellers on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 10:34 AM

That would be a self sacrificing blasphemy! Jesus said if you lose your life for my sake you gain your life. Giving your life for someone else isn't losing your life for Jesus' sake. Nothing wrong with helping someone but you can't sacrifice your life for someone else's life and go to heaven. You have to accept Christ and be born again to be saved.

They have always been God's chosen people. God was always forgiven them in the old testament. God chose them to be redeemed from the earth. All the Christians have stated some wild story that the Jews became a state in 1948 and that was the beginning of the Jews coming home to return to God.

God's people is everyone who is born again, not just the Jews. The bible says there is neither Greek nor Jew, bond nor free, circumcision nor uncircumcision.

1 Corinthians 7:19 (King James Version)

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Colossians 3:11

Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

jesse, according to the bible, all Christians were redeemed from the powers of satan, but these 144,000 Jews were redeemed from the earth and became firstfruits unto God and Jesus. (Rev 14:3,4) It doesn't get much plainer than that. These Jews were taken out of the earth and they follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.

If the Bible says they are redeemed from the earth and go everywhere the Lamb goes and are the firstfruits unto God and Jesus... How can you say they are left here on earth without saying just the opposite of the bible? If you are telling the truth then the Bible is a lie! I believe you read the scriptures wrong because the bible isn't a lie.

Jesse, you asked "When has the Jewis Nation ever recognized Jesus as Savior?" and "Are they not still waiting for there savior to come?"

I can't speak for the Jewish Nation. I assume if they want to be saved they will have to come to Jesus to get to the father. We all have to wait for the Savior to come.

-> jesse you stated: "The 144,000 left is God giving his chosen people another chance before Jesus appears on earth, and I know you don't believe in a second chance."

First of all, I think you and everyone else would agree that 144,000 jews could not give the rest of the Jewish Nation any second or third chance to receive salvation. That is a 1 on 1 salvation between each Jew and Jesus Christ. However, we read in chapter 7 of Revelation that God had his angel seal these 144,000 with his seal in their foreheads. In chapter 14 we read that these 144,000 Jews are more pure and righteous to God than any of All the born again Christians.

Mount Zion is located inside Jerusalem and the jews were known as the city of Zion at times.

The Battle of Armageddon is fought outside of Jerusalem on the "Mount of Megiddo," city in central Palestine, site of important Israeli battles. A place on a hill top where the crossroads to the other counties meet.

This is the Battle between the Kings of the Earth and Christ and his immortal warriors!

But this is not the last battle!

The last battle is fought after the 2nd Resurrection when all the decieved people who joined satan to come against God's people, are killed by Fire from heaven. This is after the world has been re-worked/cleaned up etc., for the second Resurrection, so it could be anywhere in the world. Most Christians say it is Israel because satan comes against God's people, thinking it is Israel and the battle is Armageddon. The Battle of Armageddon has already been fought before the 1st Resurrection.

This is the last Battle, then the people who are killed in this battle are ordered out of their graves to be judged. This is the second death.

parkerbrothers,

I understood bellbuckletn's post perfectly. I know she/he didn't understand it the way I do, so I went over it again explaining myself.

Her/his first paragraph was correct. That was what I was saying and she/he understood it perfectly, but her/his 2nd paragraph explained to me how she/he was taught and believed the destiny theory.

She/he thought that God wrote the names in the Book of Life as people came to Christ and accepted him.

I corrected her/his knowledge on that by giving her/him the verse in the bible that stated that God inserted the names in the Book of Life "from the foundation of the world". Since it is published in the bible, I have to believe what the bible says not you.

She/he stated "We Christians are suppose to plant the seed (Gods word) and then God will decide if that seed will grow or not. But I don't beleive God ever gives up on anyone."

We can only plant the seed. God will allow certain person to receive the seed if it is a good seed or the seed that someone in particular needs that seed in his/her ministry. The devil on the other hand will destroy that seed or seeds if he doesn't want someone to know it.

God doesn't give up on the people that he has written their name in the Book of Life.

I am knowledgeable about the bible, but don't know everything. And I agreed that we all need to stay in His Word.

parkerbrothers,

OMG!

Thanks for the warning!

It appears to me that you don't give anything, to anyone, that is worth anything!

In China some years ago, the China goevernment decided to rid China of western influence, mainly Christian teachings. So they sent a small group of armed men to a Chriatian school. They laid a cross outside the door, and told everyone inside if you walk on the cross we will know you are denouncing your religion and we will spare you your life, but if you walk around the cross then we will know you are not giving up your religion and you will be killed.

So the first four came out and walked on the cross and their lives were spared.

The fifth one came to the door and bowed her head and prayed to God to give her the strength to do what was right, she walked around the cross and was exacuted.

The next nine came out and walked around the cross and they were all killed. The fifth girl was nine years old.

If you were faced with this situation today, would you give your life for Jesus, like He gave His for you.

parkerbrothers/jesse sellers/and everyone

Before everyone and God, I pray publicly this prayer!

Heavenly Father, I ask you to forgive me of all my sins past and present in Jesus's very precious name. If my willfull sins can be forgiven without me crucifying Jesus Christ, your only begotten son, and our Lord and Savior, again by myself and bringing public shame on him, like it is written in Hebrews and which I would never ask of you, then please forgive me again.

I ask Jesus to come into my life and take complete control over my life. If it is not your will that I teach your word as I do or if I teach any false teaching, then remove this satanic affliction from me and give me a gift I can handle and that I may testify for Jesus and Witness for you forever and ever. I ask this of you in the name of Jesus of Nazareth so that those who read this will see that I do your will and not that of the deceiver.

amen

parkerbrothers,

There are diferent prayers for different purposes. Some prayers are sinners prayers that give no reward to others that would glorify them from the prayer. A confession of sins or confessing Jesus before men is good and proper. The person who confesses receives the reward of salvation, but God is Glorified in the Son.

Matthew 10:32

Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Luke 12:8

Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

Acts 24:14

But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Romans 10:9

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 15:9

And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

Philippians 2:11

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

James 5:16

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 4:15

Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

The prayers you are referring to are the prayers that make you the receiver of the Glory.

Knowing the word of God is not just the words printed in the bible, but the meanings of the verses and how they apply in our everyday lives.

I was a sinner and I asked God to forgive me again. If that is possible, I am a new creature in Christ and without sin, except for the confessing Jesus before men/sinner's prayer I prayed in public, according to parkerbrothers.

Told you I was a sinner and couldn't be forgiven again. Therefore, How could an unrighteous prayer give me forgiveness? Thanks, parkerbrothers!

Unique-Lies,

Let me comment further and say something about all the scriptures you posted above using the word "confess".

I think it is without doubt that almost everywhere the word confess is used in those scriptures it is not calling for a public prayer. Furthermore I see few if any instances where it refers to prayer of any sort.

I may be wrong but I see the word confess used in almost all the instances to mean to spread the Gospel and acknowledge Him as what He truly is.

parkerbrothers,

My prayer didn't come under the heading of alms:

Matthew 6:1-4

1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

The word "alms" in the dictionary:

Not found in the Old Testament, but repeatedly in the New. The Mosaic legislation (Lev. 25:35; Deut. 15:7) tended to promote a spirit of charity, and to prevent the occurrence of destitution among the people. Such passages as these, Ps. 41:1; 112:9; Prov. 14:31; Isa. 10:2; Amos 2:7; Jer. 5:28; Ezek. 22:29, would also naturally foster the same benevolent spirit. In the time of our Lord begging was common (Mark 10:46; Acts 3:2). The Pharisees were very ostentatious in their almsgivings (Matt. 6:2). The spirit by which the Christian ought to be actuated in this duty is set forth in 1 John 3:17. A regard to the state of the poor and needy is enjoined as a Christian duty (Luke 3:11; 6:30; Matt. 6:1; Acts 9:36; 10:2, 4), a duty which was not neglected by the early Christians (Luke 14:13; Acts 20:35; Gal. 2:10; Rom. 15:25-27; 1 Cor. 16:1-4). They cared not only for the poor among themselves, but contributed also to the necessities of those at a distance (Acts 11:29; 24:17; 2 Cor. 9:12). Our Lord and his attendants showed an example also in this (John 13:29). In modern times the "poor-laws" have introduced an element which modifies considerably the form in which we may discharge this Christian duty

You just didn't get it and typed a prayer so you could receive the Glory from man but left no Glory so God could be Glorified in his son, Jesus Christ

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 1:28 PM

Unique-Lies,

Again unique I did not type a prayer of mine. What I posted was Jesus' instructions to the disciples when they asked Him how we should pray. I believe it was from what some call his Sermon on the Mount?

parkerbrothers,

My prayer didn't come under the heading of alms:

Matthew 6:1-4

1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 1:28 PM

Unique-Lies,

I know your prayer is not regaurded as an alm. I only posted the part of the alms because it is where the chapter started and because of the similarity of Jesus' teaching on the alms being almost identical to his teaching on proper prayer.

Then how can you judge my non-alms prayer as sinful?

Did I not Glorify Jesus in a way that would Glorify God, His Father, in His only begotten son, Jesus Christ?

Did I glorify myself by asking God to forgive me in public just to be humiliated by you and your judgmental thoughts and told I did wrong? I think not! I'm still an okay kind of guy.

Unique,

I have always thought you were an "okay kind of guy". Still do. Probably always will.

I may not agree with you on some things but I think no less of you.

Learning that your head is a little harder than mine is not the only thing I have learned from you taking the time to present your understandings.

Also anything we usually disagree on would actually be to your benefit if you understood them to mean the same thing as I do. I truly wish you could accept the full sufficiency of Christ and Him alone to cover all your sins and live with that wonderful blessed assurance everyday.

I let Satan tell me that the sacrafice was not good enough to cover all my sins by agreeing with him that my sins were greater than the sacrafice for quite a while. I finally removed Satans reign on my assurance by destroying his myth he was using to rob me of blessed assurance.

I wish for no less for you.

Parker

Aman

We all let satan condemn us, and that we have gone to far this time. Jesus will turn his back on us now. Jesus says "he will never leave us or forsake us". " lo I'am with you untill the end of the world".

WE have to stand on his word not satan suggestions.

We know satan is a liar and a theif.

-- Posted by jesse sellers on Sat, Nov 1, 2008, at 7:10 AM

jesse,

Yes Jesse, he is a liar and a thief and there is nothing he had rather steal than our blessed assurance from us and cast doubt on the sufficency of Christ.

I caught the devil red handed in my house several times.