Some Morals In California

It's funny how states define themselves politically - California, for example almost always votes for a Republican for Governor, but Democrat for President.

Up until recently, Tennesseans went Democrat for local offices but Republican for President.

I get from this that it really is impossible to define the whole population of a state by a few simplistic characterizations. There are many conservatives in California - Southern California is home to one of the largest chapters of the KKK. But most people would categorize SC as liberal. And I think that's mostly because of television shows, and other misconceptions.

If all you knew about Tennessee was what you saw on TV you'd think that the state was full of backwoods, backwards, redneck, hypocritical fundamentalist preachers - but I've been here for 27 years, and I know that for the most part, that's not true.

My grandfather used to poke a bit of fun at the state of California, sometimes stating that God shook the world and everything that came loose ended up there. Evidently, there are enough people in California with morals and the backbone to resist the Homosexual Mafia's repeated assaults on decency.

The Homsexual Mafia???

Hmmm,you may be thinking of the Lavendar Hill Mob.

I'm sure that people of good character will resist assaults on decency and reason whether they come in the form of bigotry,lewdness,greed or any other destructive vice.

They'll do their best to secure appropriate laws and remove any that support the world's whims instead of the rights and well-being of the people.

Because it brings down the morals of society.

Seems to me the heterosexuals are doing a fine job at bringing down the morals of society all on their own. I sincerely doubt they need any help from us gays.... Lol!

It goes against YOUR biblical interpretation. Again, it does not effect you, so why interfere with the rights of others.

Thanks parkerbrothers. That flawless logic of yours is actually helping the gay cause. Most intelligent people see right through that type of desperate attack.

Your kind always puts a smile on my face.

Parkerbrothers,

Bizarre logic.

Unique-Lies I see you miss interpred me. You are to turn away from your old life style when you become saved, for instance if you and your friends hang out at the local bar on Fri. and Sat. nights then you would not do this anymore, if you're sleeping with people you aren't married to then you would not do this anymore. I think you get my understanding. Thats why you have to be of the age of knowing the difference between right and wrong.

Now if your a saved christian and you pass a story on about someone that's not every nice,that's gossip, your sinning

If you got mad at someone and said some things that were not nice, your sinning.

If you see a woman or man who is not your spouse and you have a thought about that person body parts, then your sinning.

Thats why I said you should ask God everyday to forgive you of your sins, Because we're human and we can't always control our thoughts or our mouths.

Seems as though bellbuckletn = parkerbrothers.

POSTED BY PARKERBROTHERS:

It indeed goes against biblical teachings. There is no way to interpret that issue any differently.

And maybe it does affect other people. We are but a short step away from socialized medicine where tax dollars pay for everyones treatments. Should my tax dollars be used to pay a doctor to dig gerbils out of some of you morons tales.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Sat, Nov 8, 2008, at 8:44 PM

UNIQUE-LIES:

parkerbrothers is good at that, but says all you have to do is ask for forgiveness and God will forgive anyone who asks him for forgiveness. The trick is to get permanent salvation then you can sin all you want to then just ask God to forgive you everyday.

I guess he would have to agree that this would be the same for homosexuals also. If it doesn't, I would love to hear the difference.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 2:09 AM

REBUTTAL TO UNIQUE LIES ABOUT PARKERBROTHERS'S STATEMENT:

Unique-Lies I see you miss interpred me. You are to turn away from your old life style when you become saved, for instance if you and your friends hang out at the local bar on Fri. and Sat. nights then you would not do this anymore, if you're sleeping with people you aren't married to then you would not do this anymore. I think you get my understanding. Thats why you have to be of the age of knowing the difference between right and wrong.

Now if your a saved christian and you pass a story on about someone that's not every nice,that's gossip, your sinning

If you got mad at someone and said some things that were not nice, your sinning.

If you see a woman or man who is not your spouse and you have a thought about that person body parts, then your sinning.

Thats why I said you should ask God everyday to forgive you of your sins, Because we're human and we can't always control our thoughts or our mouths.

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 2:21 PM

Sex is a sin??????????

I guess that means all of us should get neutered and have our genitalia removed so we can't copulate with the flesh and get our brains whittled so we can't think sexual thoughts,either.

Then,we might have our guts and tongues excised so we can't be gluttons or speak in an unseemly manner.

We could have all our limbs and sensory organs removed lest they lead us unto temptation.

That might prevent us from doing a lot of sinning-or much of anything else.

We'd still be stuck with sins of omission.

(We might stack up even more of them than we would have otherwise.)

For every good thing we do,there are an untold number of good things we can't or don't do.

This is part of living in a fallen world.

We can act on the assumption that we can avoid every transgression or that we will remember every time we go astray or that we will even recognize every flaw and misdeed as going against God's desires for our lives.

We can assume that we will pray unceasingly and every syllable will be a plea for forgiveness.

We might try making the task easier by letting candles or prayer wheels do the work for us.

We can buy indulgences,hire sin eaters or ask others (living or dead) to pray on our behalf.

It does seem a bit odd that a perfect,heavenly Being would pay a once-and-for-all payment for our sins.

Why would He make such a sacrifice for us when we are so unholy?

Why would He hold onto us so tightly yet grant us the free will to choose eternal death over eternal life?

(Note: We HAVE eternal life. Not will have or might have. We HAVE eternal life the instant we accept the gift of salvation.

Is it that difficult to believe that we can be alive in Christ before we take our last breath as surely as we were alive in the natural before we took the first one?)

Can we tell estranged husbands and wives that living apart and having marital problems doesn't dissolve their bond in God's eyes yet God's ties to us can be severed the second we fail to be a perfect partner?

Can we tell the parents of an abnormal child to preserve its life and love it despite its limitations when our heavenly Father can walk away from a soul because it is deformed and dying?

If so,we ask more of ourselves than we do our Creator and Redeemer.

Is it so difficult to believe that we are not saved because we figure out how to be clever and loving but that we become wise and caring because that was our original nature and we got it restored when the sin burden was removed by God's grace?

When we are born,we have to grow and develop before our bodies work as well as they are supposed to.

When we are sick or hurt,our bodies have to heal and regain their strength before they can function at anything close to optimum levels.

Our spirits have just as much need to develop and they are just as vulnerable to injury.

Once we have matured and become hale and hardy,we become uncomfortable with what once felt "normal".

We want to get past the sources of that discomfort and feel like ourselves again.

God knows we are works-in-progress.

He knows we will often go against our better nature.

Would we not expect that a good parent would not only reach out to grab the hand of the toddler who wants to pet the bee on Grandma's flower,but yank the collar of the drunken adult who thinks hornets' nests make good pinatas?

The Lord will not give us stones for bread,serpents for fish or hell for Heaven.

He will give us instruction,discipline and love.

He will do anything to keep us safe -except imprison our spirits.

Can we place a barrier between ourselves and God?

Yes-but it wasn't the prodigal's father or Gomer's husband that threw them out to face discomfort and dishonor nor the shepherd who abandoned the stray sheep.

The errant ones took off on their own while their Lord never stopped trying to bring them home.

Some great comments there quantumcat!

Memyselfi- parkerbrothers did make a rodent reference.... see his post at 8:44PM on Sat, Nov 8, 2008.

Uniqueslies,

If you would spend some time listening to and studying Paul instead of trying to teach and "tune" (as you say you do)Paul you would understand about sin and his struggle with it after salvation. Even in his time they refused his message of saving grace to the point they accussed him of preaching a salvation that gives a license to sin freely.

Salvation does not bring perfection to flesh. It does however accompany a repentant heart and mind that then starts down the road of sanctification awaiting eagerly the day of glorification.

Once saved you will no longer cling to and freely enjoy the sins of flesh. A loving father will disipline and convict your conscience and body of sins. There will always be the struggle of the old man with the new man until we shed our tents of flesh.

You trample the blood of Christ when you claim (as you repeatedly have claimed) you have a sin that is greater that the sufficiency of His sacrafice.

parkerbrothers,

Just shut up, you are the epitome of hypocritical idiocy.

Besides... don't think that homosexuals have a monopoly on non-human activities. There were 2 football jocks at my high school that lived on a farm and well... let's just say you heteros are pretty disgusting and perverted at times too.

Posted by TheEscapee on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 8:31 AM

I've met some of the heteros also that were fond of their farm animals.

Neither bestiality or homosexuality is something to take lightly and condone.

Really . . . can we not have a discussion that isn't based on silly stereotypes or false assumptions.

I think as christians we need to careful not to beat people over the head with their sinful live styles, remember if there is any here who have not sinned can cast the first stone.

I bet you're the type that gets a kick out of asking someone to "pull your finger" at the dinner table too.

-- Posted by TheEscapee on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 8:31 AM

Why am I not surprised by this? How gross...

-- Posted by Disgusted on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 3:40 PM

And I bet you're the type that gets a kick out of just skipping right past the polite finger pulling warning altogether at the dinner table. Now that would make you disgusted. ))-

If she taught why didn't you learn? )))-..

Hmmm. Good name for the bush you hide behind and do wishful thinking and rock throwing from.

Another bush bandit wearing a mask?

To be honest,I think the idea of "Adam and Steve" wanting to go through life in a covenant relationship does not top God's list of spiritual offenses.

-- Posted by quantumcat on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 2:42 PM

quantumcat,

Are you quoting from one of those stone tablets found underneath the ashes of Sodom?

Michael,

By chance did you notice the amount of campaign money spend on the issue. I think I read it was over 73 million spent between both sides over the issue of homosexuality.

I also noticed by how small a margin it passed. Almost the same numbers as the presidential election, 52.7% to 47.3%.

I was listening to the radio the other night and there was a talk show host that was very angry at the fact that the people of Cal. let there religious beliefs guide them in the voting booth. That those that voted to pass prop 8 were begets. I am proud of those that stand against the name calling and the attacks on Christian morals. If only the silent majority would stand up more often there is nothing that can't be overcome. These people that call themselves progressives would do anything to silence the Christian right or moderate middle, which ever you prefer. The Bible is very clear on homosexuality, no cloudiness, no smoke and mirrors. It's clear and concise. However the right would have you believe a very convoluted explanation on what the Bible means. Read and believe with your heart and God will guide you to the truth.

I would REALLY appreciate a little more demonstration of kindness and reason-especially from those of us who are supposed to have a monopoly on those traits.

I think we dwell on a lot of things that don't grieve God's spirit a tenth as much as our pettiness,cowardice,selfishness and unreason.

These,and other foibles manifest themselves in our home lives,our business dealings and world affairs.

It might matter more to our Lord whether we ate of the Tree of Life than whether we ate trans-fats.

He might prefer our wearing the whole armour of God to tucked in polos shirts.

If we would focus more on the organs between our ears and less on what's between our legs then maybe we would have a safer,saner,more just and nurturing world.

Trust me,the gerbils,goldfish,livestock AND humans we know would appreciate our concentrating more on agape than the erotic.

God has His druthers about all aspects of our lives and will confirm them if we pray for guidance and study His Word.

It seems to me we have a tendency to notice other people's transgressions more than our own and we focus on sin,the devil and hell more than we do salvation,our risen Savior and starting our Heavenly life here and now.

It's easy for us to cherry-pick and obsess on certain matters and ignore or minimize others.

Perhaps,if we concentrated on common sense and the affirmative,we could do justice,love kindness and walk humbly with God.

If we listen to His spirit,then He might tell us there is redemption and pardon for even our worst sins-even if we have murdered,gossiped,stolen,been unchaste or used I in the objective case.

The questions are, Who defines sin, who judges sin, Who categorizes sin, who determines sin, who condemns sin, who punishes the sin, who allows sin?

The answer is simple, No you, Not me, Not Michael, NOT one person on this planet has a right nor the audacity to make someone else's life a living hell because YOU think it is wrong. Keep your nose out of others business and you might be happier worrying about yourself. Same with Michael. It's funny how you judge others about how they live; yet none of you have met them or talked to them in California so why should you even worry? It doesn't affect how you live!!

But when your words or actions affect someone else, It is just plain fine, there is always an excuse with you or Michael. Your excuse is, I am washed with the blood of the lamb? Really? So you can go out and just do whatever you want and not face consequences? LOL Really? Just because you 'think' you are a Christian? You two are in for a rude awakening; because when judgment is passed I think you will find yourself a tad surprised.

Parkerbrothers... are you making the reference that I think you're making when you say "bungle in the jungle?

Parkerbrothers... are you making the reference that I think you're making when you say "bungle in the jungle?

-- Posted by TheEscapee on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 9:38 AM

I have no way to answer that since I have no way of knowing what you are thinking?

TheEscapee,

I did have Jethro Tull in mind when I posted the comment but you are the first I ever heard mention the Christian Right's interpretation of the lyrics meaning anything to do with multi-racial gay sex and that was not what I was referring to. I have a hard time seeing how the lyrics could be interpreted by anyone as having any reference to multi-racial gay sex. However most of Ian Andersons' work was complex and deep and I would not rule any possible meaning out.

I was probably thinking of a couple of lines below from the song after the evil monkey started chattering at me again earlier.

"Scoff at the monkeys who live in their dark tents"

"The monkeys seem willing to strike up the tune."

I am sorry if stating a fact or truth as I believe is regaurded as an insult by you. I just do not think it is right to sugar coat either truth or fact.

Again, I am sorry if the evil monkey is insulted for having a differing opinion on most matters as I do. The fact we can have such differing opinions is one of the great things left with America.

There is no shame for anyone being who they are. If I was ashamed of my opinion and beliefs I would hide behind a bush and pitch my rocks (opinions) as you do with a mask on. Who is that masked man?

Marvin,

I take your point that people can be led astray when a problem is understated or ignored.

My point was that we can get bogged down by our take on things and forget to ask God what concerns Him most.

When an architect looks at one of his houses,is he indifferent about the neighborhood,the size of the site,the durability of paint,floor coverings,etc.?

No.

He might care more about the house's safety and efficiency.

Perking,setbacks,landscaping,door widths,green materials and energy-saving appliances are all worthy of consideration.

But,the person whose name is on the house may be a lot more worried about its foundation,how secure it is against invasion,how well it can hold up in the event of a disaster,etc.

If the walls hold up,the roof stay on,and the floor remains supportive,that might have more import than whether it has Nanny-Cams installed or walk-in bathtubs.

A same-sex couple who WANT to be faithful to one another and to God may need less instruction than a male and female pairing where no love,respect or concern for health and morality exist.

(People who use another being as a tool for gratification are in need of a lot more spiritual repair than those who value their partners no less than themselves.)

For us,only those sexual relationships where all parties are in charge of themselves and capable of informed consent are valid.

"Scoring" in the presence of force or dimished capacity is much further away from God's idea of the proper pair bond.

That makes copulating with a child,intoxicated person,animal or anyone coherced a greater perversion than anything consensual.

Our legalism prompts us to say relations with this age/gender/race/species,etc. are acceptable or unacceptable.

God's way says for all parties concerned to bring any relationship to Him for His participation and approval.

He intends for us to connect spiritually first then what is appropriate for the bodies will follow.

The Lord would have us include Him in all we do and in all our interactions with others.

That would mean accepting that He might endorse or reject a relationship for reasons that are clear to Him even if we've never seen them come up in a law book,soap opera,country song or romance novel.

Before we become involved with any human or non-human,we need to become intimate with God.

Then we won't have to worry about our whims or the world's priorities.

We'll make the right choices for ourselves and maximize the good we can do for others.

If she taught why didn't you learn? )))-..

-- Posted by parkerbrothers

How childish, grow up, my 5 yr old is more mature than you are!

no gerbils here, but it is interesting and maybe a sign of things to come.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Defau...

-- Posted by michaelbell on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 4:27 PM

I think I read an article about a shortage already of gerbils developing in California in the pet stores.

After reading the link you posted about Obama I would not be suprised in the next few years if the neighbor knocking on your door is wanting to borrow the kids' gerbils instead of a cup of sugar.

Perhaps the next big wave of new farming will be gerbil ranching.

Our legalism prompts us to say relations with this age/gender/race/species,etc. are acceptable or unacceptable.

Posted by quantumcat on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 3:04 PM

quantumcat,

No, the Word of God itself prompts us to say relations with this age/gender/race/species,etc. are acceptable or unacceptable.

Furthermore we are told not to be deceived by it either.

Don't forget this part:

"He intends for us to connect spiritually first then what is appropriate for the bodies will follow.

The Lord would have us include Him in all we do and in all our interactions with others.

That would mean accepting that He might endorse or reject a relationship for reasons that are clear to Him even if we've never seen them come up in a law book,soap opera,country song or romance novel.

Before we become involved with any human or non-human,we need to become intimate with God.

Then we won't have to worry about our whims or the world's priorities.

We'll make the right choices for ourselves and maximize the good we can do for others."

The folks in Sodom and Gomorrah may very well have been reminded to seek God's imput first.

I suspect that their ignoring and excluding Him didn't start with wanting to rape angels.

Call it sexual perversion,being inhospitable or whatever,they earned the Lord's wrath by putting their own desires over what God wanted for them.

Humans like to cherry-pick what they choose to observe and how they implement God's orders.

I think that God prefers that we seek His will first and then see if it matches the popular culture.

When we do so,we run the risk that He'll mention the areas where we need improvement and not just what affects the other guys.

To use the house analogy again,we who live in a dwelling might head down to the shop around the corner to get new storm windows and a replacement for a decrepit deck.

Our contractor might suggest we see about asbestos removal,smoke detectors and new wiring first.

(Actually,we aren't often that smart.

A more apt analogy might be our telling God we need a fancier mantle while the chimney's full of creosote.)

I'd say anyone who seeks His kingdom and His will (even if they are in baaad need of turning their lives in a new direction) is better off than he who never gives God any authority whatsoever.

I confess,I have a problem with the world insisting that God match our morality instead of our heeding His directives.

Whether we have looser standards than He or try to be more rigid and unforgiving,we are putting our ideas ahead of His.

As individuals and institutions,we'd do better to leave the issue of people's conduct up to God and the person in question as much as possible.

Even when society is affected by the choices a free will makes,ultimately,the responsibility for choices and consequences falls back on God and the individual.

I'm NOT saying "anything goes".

I am saying it bothers me when we think that God is perfect because He agrees with us.

Let us form the law rather than letting the law mold us-but let us first conform to God's will for us.

Let's emphasize a personal devotion to God before we relegate the Bible to being a rulebook.

Then,His word will remain a living force in our hearts and not just a set of do's and don'ts we want to ignore or manipulate.

He stated that he was against same sex marriage, but we will have to wait and see.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 5:32 AM

NO he said it shouldn't the Federal Government's decision. It should be placed on the state's law books. California voted No. Connecticut is Yes. So just don't go to the states that voted Yes. Simple as that.

quantumcat,

I fully agree with you. If have a personal realtionship with Jesus, then hopefully the choices (free will) you make in life will be the choice God would have you make. The Bible does contain "rules" for us, but far more than that, when looked at as a whole, it shows us that wonderful relationship God wants to have us and how much he loves us. He loved us enough to let his son die on the cross for ALL of our sins, and the only thing he really requires from us is to accept that love and say yes.

I can see your analogy.

All I'm saying is ask God where He wants you to focus.

(He may have a different agenda or different priorities than other influences in our lives.)

As I've said before,listening to God means we run the risk of not only changing what's wrong in our lives but changing the good things,too in order to gain something even better.

He may want that contractor to build the homeowner an earth-sheltered home erected on high ground instead of fixing roofs and windows that are going to be blown away or flooded again.

We have to trust our contractor and architect to know their craft and our needs better than we know ourselves.

There are guys out there who will build on sand just because it lines their pockets.

Then,there are the professionals who will insist on building on a firm foundation even when we aren't willing to pay the extra cost.

Sometimes,we need more education than condemnation and a homeowner might be less likely to heed folks who forget to guide and support yet that criticize everything from color schemes to choice of blueprints.

Rather than be treated dismissively or patronized by those who will tell us whatever suits their purpose,we do better to rely on Someone who wants to include us in the process,giving us His wisdom,giving us more options than we could ever imagine and assuring us that what He insists upon is necessary for our safety and our comfort.

Or he may just want us to keep the house in the order he has already instructed us to? I think He is the same today as He was yesterday and as He will be tommorrow.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 2:54 PM

What you think doesn't make it a fact. You have No Hard Cold Facts to back that up. Remember you said it.

The bible states that God's word is a two edged sword, it either lifts you up or it cuts you into, depending on which side of it you are on.

Naw, the Bible is whatever Michael feels it should be and whatever mood he is in.

Why I left the church is yours or nobody's buisness!

It wasnot for me being a embarrisment I promise!

I left the church because I felt it was going in the wrong direction, something was wrong because several have left since me.

The bible does say to love one another for those that follow it, if you don't believe it then who knows?

When you read the New Testament, it is from Christian Brother to Brother and Sister to Sister!

I love everyone, but don't have to wish them Godspeed or bless them.

The bible does cut like a sword if you don't follow it!

I agree with Brother Parker on one thing, it is a shame that you have to hide who you really are, by using fake names!

I am not ashamed at what I preach, I will do it on here, in the streets or in my church one day, under my name and in God's name!

Come out and lets see who you are!

Or stay behind the mask and throw your rocks, I know a couple of you already, so it really does not matter to me.

I am sure in what I stand for, are you?

I always thought the main message of the Bible was to love one another.

-- Posted by countrymom on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 7:34 PM

countrymom,

How do we love one another? Tell us what love is to you.

Christ says to love one another as I have loved you, this was said to his followers.

I will love you by showing you the love of Christ and him saving you from your sins, not letting you waller in them.

This show ask what is a family, a family is one man one woman married with or without children and putting God first, that is God's family.

Not same sex or trangs-gender or people shacking up[ it is still called that isn't]?

I don't care how you feel personally, that is the least of my worries, and I ain't hard to find Mr. Stemper.

I was given this forum to speak my thoughts and opinions and that is what I intend to do.

I have several who agree with my thoughts, just cause you don't , ain't nothing to me.

Whatever?

I don't think it would end up a civilized meeting,You seem as devout in your thought as I do mine.

Devoutness can lead to tempers flaring and then who knows what?

Yeah, and the sky is falling to, I know of very few that don't have a temper, Peter, Paul, and even Jesus himself had a temper, and will have one when he comes back.

Is it the one man,one woman,2.5 kids (male and female),panelled station wagon,dog and cat that make up a family?

Or can it be any group God has brought together who have bound themselves in love?

(I.e,siblings,widowed sisters-in-law,Army buddies,street people who look out for one another,a church congregation,etc. ?

I can accept that one man and one woman plus God might make a family-but only because He can bring all those doves,lambs,lions,four horses,the cattle on a thousand hills,a unicorn and the hound of Heaven,etc. with Him!

I don't have a temper, because I am a Christian.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sun, Nov 16, 2008, at 7:41 PM

Evil Monkey,

Where and/or how did you learn about being a Christian?

Evil Monkey,

Where and/or how did you learn about being a Christian?