Summing Up The Rapture

I am sure they have been and may God Bless. When you are content, you are at a stand still. There is much, much more to learn than just baby's milk. You will have to learn how to digest that first, before moving on.

parkerbrothers

I only asked three (3) Questions above and gave the quotes of 4 Christians who agreed to one or more of them.

2 of the three are false teachings, yet Christians everywhere believe all 3 statements are true or at least 2 of them are true.

Only one statement can be true, not 2 nor all 3.

I added another question to get a response from quantumcat. That is the only question YOU Replied to. A simple question that wasn't even directed to you but the only question you could answer by saying:

No, I think it would be better to just keep relying on the Word of God to sum all that up.

And none of it needs "tuning".

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Mon, Nov 17, 2008, at 6:47 AM

If the bible doesn't need tuning (as you put it) why do the churches make up Unique Lies about going to heaven when we die if they are going to teach we go to paradise when they die and why teach that our souls sleep when we die and know nothing and do nothing if they are also going to teach we don't sleep, but know everything going on around us?

It's no wonder the Christians are confused about religion and don't know what to really believe. They can believe anything they want to believe because the churches have covered their asses with all their anti-christ lies.

No matter how you believe, the churches can agree with you or disagree with you, it's just whichever way the preacher wants to go. He can be right no matter which way he goes.

BUT... if you read your bible, the word of God says there is only one correct answer! And knowing the correct answer will answer hundreds of other questions for you. The wrong answer won't!

The term was: wipe the dust of this town off my shoes.

Meaning that this town won't listen to my words, but they didn't listen to Jesus's either. Because the world didn't listen to Jesus I know the world won't listen to me either.

Matthew 13:57

57 And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor."

JUST 3 Questions above and they have all been answered by the posts of 4 alleged Christians unknowingly.

All three theories have been taught by the churches around the country. They contradict each other but still taught just the same.

Anyone with any common sense should be able to see what they have been taught and whether it is correct or not according to the scriptures.

You have to ask yourself, "How would quantumcat sum all that up?"

parkerbrothers and his followers:

It now appears to me that the Christians have been told three different stories that they should believe.

A. Christians don't sleep when they die and know everything going on around them, because Jesus told the parable about them in Hell/Hades/Paradise?

-> If we don't know anything but sleep after death, Explain Luke - 16:19-31 - Luke - 23:43 and Rev. -2:7

If our souls sleep, why was the rich man asking for water and why could he remember and ask for help for his kin.

So you say Jesus is lying in these scriptures? We only sleep no knowledge in death?

-- Posted by jesse sellers on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 7:04 AM

-> But those in Hell will remember everything about there lives,they will be tormented not only physically but mentally for eternity.

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 11:10 AM

-> Until the ressurection there is a temporary heaven , "Paridice" Luke 23:43 and for unbelievers a tempotary hell Rev. 20:13-14

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 11:10 AM

-> Use you head for something besides a hat rack.

Was Jesus talking to someone who was sleeping and knows nothing when he descended to hell? I guess you will conjure up that he woke up them up for a minute to talk to them and then let them go back to sleep

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 11:56 AM

-> I cannot and will not believe that those that died thousands of years ago are still in the grave.

Maybe we all go to the gulf that is talks of in Luke 16:26

-- Posted by michaelbell on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 4:12 PM

-> NO PARABLE . The word certain person in that passage denote real.

-- Posted by jesse sellers on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 7:01 PM

-> The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27).

-- Posted by michaelbell on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 8:09 PM

-> Sorry - Luke-16 :19-31 is no parable when Jesus says certain person he is speaking of a real thing.

-- Posted by jesse sellers on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 8:12 PM

---> Luke 16:19-31 is a parable! Jesus used the name Lazarus as the beggar but this wasn't the same Lazarus Jesus raised from the dead. Abraham's bosom was used because Abraham was the Father of the whole Nation.

-- inserted by Unique-Lies

-> Why would the word of God tell us of two certain places for souls to go, like the rich man to hell after death, and Lazarus being carried by angels to Abraham"s Bosom or (Paradise) and a great gulf seperating it from hell and both having knowledge of there situation if it was not so. Jesus covered us even more with his sacrifice and words to us. Oh the blessed assurance of Jesus words.

You will not find the word certain used in a Parable.

-- Posted by jesse sellers on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 7:07 AM

-> The rich man was able to see the the other in heaven.

That is half of what would make it Hell.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 11:05 AM

B. Christians do sleep because Paul says the Christians who are dead, Sleep in Christ.

-> And the word sleep in the bible refers to being dead not literaly asleep. Some refer to that as soul sleeping, and that is not a biblical dotrine. 2Cor 5:6-8 Phil 1:23

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 11:10 AM

-> Soul sleep is a minority belief that the soul sleeps unconsciously between the death of the body and its resurrection on Judgment Day. The concept of "soul sleep" is not a biblical doctrine. When the Bible says a person is "sleeping" in relation to death (Luke 8:52; 1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be sleeping.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 8:09 PM

-> In a sense, a person's body is "sleeping" while his soul is in the temporary Paradise or Hades.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 8:09 PM

-> I agree with Michael on what happens to us when we die. I study oliver Greene and I also study a few sites on line and they all say what Michael wrote.

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 9:20 PM

C. Christians go to heaven when they die because John seen the souls of the Christians in his vision.

-> For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23).

-- Posted by michaelbell on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 8:09 PM

-> I agree with Michael on what happens to us when we die. I study oliver Greene and I also study a few sites on line and they all say what Michael wrote.

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 9:20 PM

-> 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God,

Why do these souls get to go directly to heaven but we don't. I haven't read anywhere in the Bible that it says only those who die a martyrs death get to go directly to heaven and the rest of us who are saved through Jesus have to wait.

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 10:43 AM

-> The alter is in heaven and John sees them in heaven in his vision. Look at your own paragraph above. How else would John see them in heaven if they weren't in heaven.

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 3:34 PM

- -

Above are post that Christians have made in "The Fifth and Sixth Seal" Archive. I only pasted what they said that applies to this post.

Their posts confirm that Christians are taught 3 different theories that contradict each other. Two of these teachings contradict the bible.

1. They are taught that Christians don't sleep when they die, but are awake and know everything that is going on around them. (Just the opposite of what the bible says.)

2. They are taught that Christians do sleep when they die in a soul sleep. Meaning that they are not aware of what is going on around them.

3. They are taught that Christians go to Heaven when they die. Some believe they go to a paradise first then heaven. (This one contradicts itself and the bible.)

- -

In a sense, a person's body is "sleeping" while his soul is in the temporary Paradise or Hades. This body is then "awakened" and transformed into the eternal body a person will possess for eternity, whether in heaven or hell. Those who were in Paradise will be sent to the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Those who were in Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people--based entirely on whether or not they have trusted Jesus Christ alone for salvation from their sins.

This came from a book I have by Perry Stone , I just touched on the highlights of the whole chapter, It is done from a Hebraic point of view which most people forget about.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 8:09 PM

- -

What the Bible really says is:

A person's body rots in the ground while the soul sleeps in the grave. It is Resurrected and lives with your body again for a short while so satan can deceive whomever he can of the people who were Resurrected in the 1st and 2nd Resurrections.

Those who follow satan are destroyed by fire from heaven. Satan is cast into the lake of fire. The sea, death and grave give up the dead (not a 3rd Resurrection) everyone is judged accord to "what" they done. This is the final judgment. It is at this time that everyone changes in a flash, in the twinkle of an eye into their eternal bodies. Anyone whose name is NOT written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the earth, is cast into the lake of fire and burned up.

Unique-Lies,

Are you rattling off just to hear your head make noise? You can repeat your thoughts from now till the rapture and I think you will still be the only one believing your concoction.

You really do not need to try so hard to take so many home with you through secret knowledge and new revelation. Most will go home with you on sheer unbelief alone. It will not take belief in a lie to fill your house up. You will have enough company to talk to. Perhaps you can teach them to wake up at night in fearful dread in unison with you.

Parkerbrother and Jesse sellers,

Those have to be the most heroic posts in history.

In stead of answering 10 Questions to prove what I am saying is Lies, you both would rather call me anti-christ and not give the answers a second thought.

I am not changing what the bible says but only proving what it says. Anyone who can read English should be able to read what the bible really says if they look at the scriptures.

You two can't turn the pages and read other scriptures in another chapter that proves what you read on the first page. You can't add the scriptures together to reveal the truth.

Thank you for thinking that I am a super intelligent human who is capable of learning the scriptures and changing them to mean just the opposite.

I assure you that I am not such a wise being. I am only a servant and a servant can not be greater than his master.

Without Christ I can do nothing, but through Christ all things are possible.

Since no one on this blog seems to be able to jump in and defend your Rapture theory or even try to comment on it, I am assuming you are all together as one church and parkerbrothers is your spokesperson.

Good luck to you all. When you are all Raptured up, I hope you have enough common sense to know if it is the False Christ or the real Christ. None of you seem to understand that the False Christ WILL BE the real Christ to almost every living person on this earth, because they can't put two and two together and see the truth.

That is why Christ returns early!

Before the churches will be able to reveal these things to you, they will be vanished from the earth and the False Religion will be the new religion. It shouldn't vary much from what you already believe so they won't have any trouble converting you to their false religion. If you try to stand up against their religion, they will just "Rapture" you up!

Parker

Your correct look what satan did to Eve and the word with his cunning and one lie. We all fail more often than we like to think. Self always get in the way. Rapture is a sure thing to me. John 17 - Jesus prayed to his father that his people would be with him. That was the prayer for the Church's rapture. In this prayer Jesus obeyed the Father's command as to EXACTLY what he should speak. So we have God's own unbreakable word that the rapture of the Church is the absolute will of God and it cannot fail. Jesus said he would never leave us or forsake us. That my Rock.

I give Unique this he did name his self correctly. He is the Unique lie to me like satan was to Eve.

I still don't beleive you can understand what you are reading :)

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 1:55 PM

My step son in FL sent me the interesting email with the jumbled words. I just wanted to share it with everyone who has never seen it.

I should have known that parkerbrothers would have something unchristian to say about it.

It is just a good thing we can all read misspelled words.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 8:27 PM

Unique-Lies,

Nothing unchistian at all about my comment. Actually the total opposite of it. We Christians are not to just sit back and let someone trample the blood of Christ as you repeatedly do with some of your spewed misleadings that could carry someone with you to your self admitted destiny.

Your supposedly secret understandings and revelations are actually the most clever disguised productions of Satan I have seen.

I still don't beleive you can understand what you are reading :)

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 1:55 PM

My step son in FL sent me the interesting email with the jumbled words. I just wanted to share it with everyone who has never seen it.

I should have known that parkerbrothers would have something unchristian to say about it.

It is just a good thing we can all read misspelled words.

You will have to choose which part of the bible you want to believe.

So far, you haven't showed me anything.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 5:26 PM

Unique-Lies,

I didn't know there were "parts" to believe in?

I choose to take it in its entirety and find it very sufficient. No "tuning" needed for me.

I would like to see it come a time when Paul and the others apostles have showed you all you need to see and you don't foolishly wait for me to show you anything.

It's all already there. No "tuning" needed.

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 1:08 PM

I still don't beleive you can understand what you are reading :)

Cna yuo raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The

phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde

Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a w rod are, the olny

iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The

rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is

bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a

wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!

1 Cor. 15:12-26

parkerbrothers/michaelbell/jessesellers,

I have read 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and have no problems with it.

Paul is telling the gentiles that the dead in Christ shall rise first then we which are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air and we will be with the Lord forever.

Paul doesn't say which dead souls in Christ are raised first nor who the "we" are, who are alive.

According to you and the rest of the world, it is "all" the Christians who are dead and the "we" who are alive would be "all" the Christians who are alive when Christ returns.

My proof is: If all you Christians are Raptured up:

1. Who is the Lord going to Resurrect in the 1st and 2nd Resurrections?

2. Who are the people that the angels spare in the harvest when Christ returns?

3. Who are the nations that satan is going to deceive when he is released from the pit?

4. How can the 144,000 Jews be sealed in their foreheads, then redeemed from the earth, become firstfruits to God and Jesus and go everywhere Christ goes, yet still be right here on earth teaching the Jews that remain here and didn't get raptured up?

5. How can there be Two men who will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left and...

6. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left since this happens after the rapture and Christ has already come?

Which one is taken and where are they taken and what happens to the other one who is left?

7. If all the dead in Christ are already in heaven, how can they be raptured "UP"? Paul didn't say the dead in Christ will be dropped first from heaven to the clouds. They are already up and living with God in heaven so explain that to me!

8. Why did Paul say the dead in Christ will rise first if they have already risen past the clouds and into heaven when they died?

9. Why didn't Paul just say we who are alive and remain will be caught up to meet those who have already risen to heaven?

There are no scriptures that answer these questions you have created with your rapture theory.

Come on and prove me wrong by answering them. Put your heads together and come up with some answers

-> One day they will be asking where did every body go and guess what it won't be to Arbys.

-- Posted by jesse sellers on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 8:16 PM

The anti-christ will be ruling the world before Christ returns and will be accepted as the Christ by all non-believers and many believers as well. People will be deceived into believing the Beast is Christ and will be mislead by him.

The Beast may or may not TAKE People. He will have many killed. The Bible speaks of people being TAKEN, but the ones doing the TAKING are the "Angels sent by the Lord" and those who are Taken are the sinners and all who do evil.

Scriptures of people being TAKEN:

Matthew 13:37-43

The Parable of the Weeds Explained

36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."

37 He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man.

38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,

39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40 "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.

41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.

42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Matthew 13:47-50

47 "Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish.

48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away.

49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous

50 and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 24:38-41

38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;

39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.

41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Are you sure you want to be one of the lucky ones who are Taken???

No Unique

I don't need to be afraid I feel secure. I'll take Jesus at his word. Sorry you feel you can't. I have told you before King David was forgiven several times. Its your choice it your belief as it is supposed to be. Jesus said it was done no retakes needed.

One day they will be asking where did every body go and guess what it won't be to Arbys.

parkerbrothers/michaelbell,

As far as the 24 elders go, to me they would be the 12 sons of Jacob and the 12 apostles.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 5:32 PM

Most of the bible teachers agree that these 24 elders are the 12 sons of Jacob and the 12 apostles.

I don't believe that is who they are.

1. All thou Jacob had 12 sons, Dan was replaced by Manasseh making the new 12 tribes, however God is waiting to forgive Dan in the last days.

In rev 7:5-8 we read that Dan isn't listed but Manasseh, one of Joseph's sons is. Which son would be included as the 12 sons, Dan or Manasseh or both?

2. The 12 sons of Jacob had wives and sons of their own. No one else in heaven is married nor even been with women, so I don't believe the 24 elders would be the 12 sons.

3, Nor would the 24 elders be the patriarchs nor leading men in the bible.

4. Nor would the 24 elders be the 12 apostles because Judas Iscariot was replaced by Matthias but I am sure he has been forgiven by Jesus if he needed to be forgiven. I think he was born for the purpose of betraying Jesus. Someone had to do it so Judas was born to do it. Judas did what he was called to do and has been forgiven and has salvation just like all the other people in the old testament. So which apostle would be chosen Judas Iscariot or Matthias?

5. Nor would God use the souls of the 12 sons of Israel and the 12 apostles to create the 24 elders. That would be called "reincarnation" and goes against everything written in the bible. Therefore, I personally believe the 24 elders have always been in heaven all the time and are their own beings.

The four living creatures have been with God from the beginning and not a reincarnation of other people or animals.

-> And Now more questions from the parkerbrother:

How many times do you think a man must read the word of God before he can go to heaven? Does he have to read it from cover to cover?

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 7:21 PM

That is a pretty simple question that wouldn't be asked by anyone else. First you don't have to read the whole bible cover to cover or even half the bible. You can be forgiven just by asking God to forgive you, but in order to know what God's will is... you have to read his word yourself. If you don't read it yourself or abide in his word, you only know what man tells you the will of God is. That could prove bad in the last days.

By the same turn a person could read the bible from cover to cover and never find salvation or even fall away and lose their salvation.

-> I think you are overtuning Paul again. Are you going to get started back up on your short 2 minute cloud ride again?

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 7:27 PM

No! I have explained it to you a thousand times and you just don't get it. If you go back to the post, you will see that I was answering dmcg and not parkerbrothers.

I have asked you several times to explain the events as you believe they happen but you refuse to answer them saying I have gone over them several times. You should be able to answer them by now but YOU CAN NOT!

-> Thank God for this promise in Isaiah 54:8-10

-- Posted by jesse sellers on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 7:51 PM

This is a promise to Zion or the Jewish nation. Isaiah wrote this around 700 B.C.. Below is a warning to the Christians world wide written by Paul between A.D. 50-70.

1 Cor 10:6 Warnings From Israel's History

1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.

2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

3 They all ate the same spiritual food

4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered over the desert.

6 Now these things occurred as examples[a] to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did.

7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."

8 We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did--and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died.

9 We should not test the Lord, as some of them did--and were killed by snakes.

10 And do not grumble, as some of them did--and were killed by the destroying angel.

11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.

12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

So Jesse, Thank God for this promise, but beware of the possible outcome if you fall away.

This is when the people are caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus. Jesus returns with a loud noise and the dead in him rise first then they who are alive are caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And they will be with the Lord forever.

Who are these people? The 144,000 Jews are the only people redeemed from the earth and are firstfruits to god and Jesus and go with the lord forever, so it has to be the 144,000 Jews.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 1:40 PM

Unique-Lies,

I think you are overtuning Paul again. Are you going to get started back up on your short 2 minute cloud ride again?

I believe they were the saints of old, if you noticed all the patriarchs of the bible made sure they were buried in the area, Abraham, Issac, Jacob and all his sons.

Jewish historians state that the cloud that took Jesus to heaven was actually the spirits of all the old testament people that accepted him while he was in the heart of the earth for 3 days.

The testament of the 12 Patriarchs or the stories of the sons of Jacob state that they made sure they were buried close to the site of Christ death and his resurrection.

As far as the 24 elders go, to me they would be the 12 sons of Jacob and the 12 apostles.

dmcg,

In the Amplified Bible (SEE www.biblegateway.com) you will find the word Hades in all the verses below.

However if you go to the KJV you will see the word Hell in the place of Hades.

No where in the KJV is the word Hades printed. All the verses say Hell!

Proverbs 5:5, Proverbs 7:27, Proverbs 9:18, Proverbs 15:24, Proverbs 23:14, Isaiah 14:9, Isaiah 14:15, Isaiah 57:9, Amos 9:2, Matthew 11:23, Matthew 16:18, Luke 10:15, Luke 16:23, Acts 2:27, Acts 2:31, Revelation 1:18, Revelation 5:3, Revelation 5:13, Revelation 6:8, Revelation 20:13 and Revelation 20:14.

In Luke 16:19-31 the rich man was in Hell (in the KJV), but in the Amplified Bible the rich man was in Hades and not Hell. The New International Version says the rich man was in Hell.

I was always told that Hell was used in the old testament and Hades was never used until the new testament was printed. But you can see that the old testament used the word Hades also.

However it is only in the newer translations by man to make the bible easier to read. Man re-translated the bibles to read Hades instead of Hell. The word Hades was never printed in the KJV. Newer versions of the KJV may have it in them now? A lot of words have been changed in it and the meanings also changed because of it. I try to read from an older KJV Bible when testing scripture It is harder to understand because it hasn't been changed by man as much. In the older day theologians understood the scriptures. Today theologians say anything that comes to their mind, true of not. If they tell the truth, they would sound like me and would be persecuted. They want to save their own skins by not looking like a crazy person telling it like it is.

Sheol is the place of departed spirits; Hades; also, the grave and hell. Sheol is not printed in the KJV Bible. It is another word created by the translators of other bibles.

The word Rapture appears in the Amplified Bible in John 20:20 to describe how happy the disciples were to see Jesus after he had risen. The word doesn't appear in most of the other bibles.

SO it seems that Jesus did go to Hell to preach to the dead, but never saw corruption to his body.

I tried to think of hell as in the center of the earth, according to scriptures, and the other place was Hades for the good souls. The bible doesn't say that. In Luke Jesus tells us that the rich man went to Hell and Lazarus went to Abrahams' Bosom. Other bibles say Abraham's side. Abraham is symbolic of Good so Jesus used Abraham's side or bosom in his "Parable".

Yes this was a parable so the event didn't happen in real life. It was only symbolic of what Jesus was speaking of, the death and rising of Jesus Christ and teaching the word of God to keep people out of hell. A slap in our face, if you will!

If we don't read the word of God and abide in his word, we will go to hell.

The bible says that when we die we sleep and know nothing and do nothing.

Daniel 12:2

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

1 Thessalonians 4:14

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Ecclesiastes 9:5-10

5 For the living know that they will die,

but the dead know nothing;

they have no further reward,

and even the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Their love, their hate

and their jealousy have long since vanished;

never again will they have a part

in anything that happens under the sun.

7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do.

8 Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil.

9 Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun-- all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun.

10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

SO... if we sleep, Good and bad alike, and we know nothing and do nothing, then we are not tormented in hell. We could not possibly know about the others on the other side of the great gulf from hell or even know Abraham was there. It just doesn't make any difference where we are, we won't know it.

We will all be Resurrected except for 144,000 who will be redeemed from the earth.(Rev 7:1-8 and Rev 14:1-5) These are the only people that the bible says are redeemed from the earth, besides Enoch and Elijah and Jesus who ascended and Melchizedec who just disappeared.

The transfiguration of Jesus Christ and the raising of the dead at the Last Judgment has nothing to do with each other. That incident was only to make an unquestionable statement about the supremacy of Jesus Christ over any human prophet. God spoke and said "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."

In Revelation 20:1-4 It describes Jesus chaining satan up in the pit and Resurrecting the people in the 1st Resurrection and exactly who they are.

Rev 20:5-10 It says "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended." then they are Resurrected at the same time satan is released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle.

In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The people who followed satan are devoured by fire, but the beast, false prophet and satan will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Other verses also say satan's falling angels who are chained in darkness in Hell will also be torment in the Lake of Fire forever. Nowhere does it say the people are tormented in the lake of fire. They are burned up but not tormented forever.

This is the 1st and 2nd Resurrections, not a Rapture. Jesus was Resurrected so we must be resurrected just as he was. After we are Resurrected we live on earth again for a short while then satan leads his people against God's people and God sends fire from heaven to destroy them.

THIS IS NOT ARMAGEDDON!

The battle of Armageddon was fought before the 1st Resurrection. It happened when Christ returned and all the kings of the earth came up against Christ. It has nothing to do with the world coming against Israel. They are only after Christ who is invading the Beasts' throne. The beast has already taken over Israel and is ruling on the throne in the temple in Israel.

No one makes war against Israel, the Beast just walks in and takes over because he has convenced the world that he is Christ by the miracles he does.

No shots are fired. Just another Lie the churches teach. It is after everyone is Resurrected and satan is released that satan brings his followers against Christ and his people.

This war amounts to God sending fire from heaven to destroy satan's army.

Then comes the judgment day and the second death. This is when everyone is raised out of their graves and the sea and are judged. Those who go to heaven will be given heavenly bodies and those inheriting the earth get earthly bodies.(I Cor. 15:50-57) This is long after the second coming of Christ.

Christ returns while the beast is in power and making everyone worship him. 1 Cor. 15:50-57 does not say anything about taking anyone to heaven. It only talks about the bodies they are given after they are raised up to be judged.

(I Thess 4:13-18)

This is when the people are caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus. Jesus returns with a loud noise and the dead in him rise first then they who are alive are caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And they will be with the Lord forever.

Who are these people? The 144,000 Jews are the only people redeemed from the earth and are firstfruits to god and Jesus and go with the lord forever, so it has to be the 144,000 Jews.

When the people are Resurrected, they don't go up into the clouds. They are tempted by satan again here on earth. Many will join satan's army against Christ and be killed by fire from heaven. Then the Lord causes all the dead to rise and be judge. Many people will still be alive because they are God's people and weren't destroyed by fire from heaven.

It is at this time that all the people will take on spiritual bodies and be judged one final time. Either your name is written in the book of life from the foundation of the world or you go into the lake of fire.

The End... No this is just the Beginning!

Michael,

"We can debate all the rest till he does come back and won't know all the answers."

That is more or less my point. There are so many important concepts contained in the Bible, why spin your wheels over something that isn't in there? Righteous living, obedience to God's commands, seeking salvation in general all are far more important than what will happen in the end time. If a person is prepared for the return of the Savior, then all the speculation in the world is not worth much is it? It seems to me to be far more important to spend our time in pursuing the will of God rather than speculating about prophecies. Mankind has never had a very good track record in regards to prophecy anyway. Look at the Jewish nation as a whole in regards to the Messiah. They did not accept Jesus as their Lord because they did not think he fit the prophecies about him. He was not what they were looking for, nor for that matter, what they wanted! They sought an earthly king and kingdom. Jesus made it plain that his kingdom is not of this world.

If we have our eyes on the reward, why would we care how we will receive it. The wonders of the last Judgment will be revealed and observed. I do not need to spend my time trying to figure out what will happen.

I have heard many people spend countless hours trying to explain the book of the Revelation of John. However, I have heard few mention that the important part of that great mystery lies in its closing passages. Passages containing the hope of the glorious victory of the righteous through Jesus Christ. It is He we should be following; it is He we should be meditating upon and He who should receive all our praise.

Consider the following:

I Cor 2:1-5 When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.

When we stick to what the Bible teaches for doctrine, how can we go wrong? Speculation is never a good thing when it comes to religion. The Bible is the most intriguing book ever written. It contains the keys to salvation which are easily understood by a simple mind. Yet no matter how smart you are, you can spend a lifetime of study and contemplation and never fully understand every part of it. That is one of the hallmarks of its being inspired by God. The marvels of its simple wisdom and complex knowledge compound its authenticity.

Thank you for your thought provoking blogs. We all remain students, never fully grasping all there is to know. But as you so eloquently stated, "All I know for fact is , there is a God, he has a Son whose name is Jesus , who died for my sins, rose on the third day and he is coming back, this I have no doubt."

Matt 25: 31-46 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, "Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me." Then the righteous will answer him, "Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?" The King will reply, "I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me." Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me." They also will answer, "Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?" He will reply, "I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me." Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

Our nation stands on the verge of ruin, yet I thank you for reminding me of what I really need to be doing. Perhaps if we as a Americans would set our minds back on caring for the needy, the Lord would bless us again. Has our selfishness caused Him to turn His back on us? We can make all kinds of assertions about our religion, but if we are not taking care of business, what good have we done. Isn't it interesting that the sheep are the ones who served others? Matt. 23:8-12 "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. The greatest among you will be your servant. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Michael,

I believe you will find that the Lord Jesus Christ did not go into Hell, rather he went into Hades. There is a distinct difference. Hades is the realm of the dead and contains both paradise and punishment. Hell is the place of eternal punishment of the damned. See Luke 16:19-31 for a better understanding of the place where the dead await judgment. The KJV passage, (Psalm 16:10 "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.) is more accurately rendered in the English Standard Version, which reads: 10 For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol, or let your holy one see corruption. The NIV reads: because you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay. So, what is Sheol? Is it not the Hebrew equivalent of the Greek term Hades? Also see Rev 1:18. The dead (saved and damned) abide in Hades until the end of days, when each one shall face judgment. Syn., ABADDON: GEHENNA: SHEOL. If you are continuing your studies with Jewish and/or Greek scholars, perhaps they might shed more light on this subject (Sheol/Hades) for all of us interested.

I do not understand your association between the transfiguration of Jesus Christ and the raising of the dead at the Last Judgment. The prophets, Moses and Elijah, seen with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration, were spirit, not flesh. Jesus was also viewed as spirit (Mat 17:2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light). Wasn't that incident only to make an unquestionable statement about the supremacy of Jesus Christ over any human prophet? Otherwise, why would the disciples be told to tell no one of the incident until after the resurrection of Jesus?

What scripture leads you to believe that after the resurrection of the dead before the final judgment that anyone would have the ability to appear as flesh OR spirit? The following passages seem to me to indicate that after the dead are raised, the spirit form will be permanent, (see below, I Thes 4:18 be with the Lord forever).

I Cor. 15:50-57 (NIV) I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-- in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?" The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

I Thes 4:13-18 (NIV) Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words.

Since the term rapture, as applied to end times is of nineteenth century origin; my final question for you is:

Where in the Bible do you find the term "rapture"?

I think Christ was showing his followers how they would be, able to go betwixt both flesh and spirit , the same as the angels who were used as messengers.