By the People or By the Judges.

Posted Friday, November 28, 2008, at 3:51 PM

The peoples voice was heard in California when they voted to pass the proposition repealing gay marriage.

Jerry Brown the attorney general stated that the people had no right to do this.

I thought that is what our country was based on , by the people for the people, the majority vote would win in case of a tie then a tie breaking vote would be decided, the same as in the senate.

When the judges were mentioned in the bible, they were not as we see them , but as military leaders that God raised up to deliver his people from their enemies quiet different to what judges do now.

Without a centralized government between 1380 and 1050 BC people tended to rebel and worship false Gods.

Everyone did what was right in his own eyes[Jud.17:6;21:25]

God would send foreign nations or tribes to oppress the Israelites[ sound like America today with the terrorist attacks]

God would raise up charismatic leaders like Gideon and Samson to defeat the enemy. They were God's agents for justice and deliverance, they would act decisively to free to free their people from oppression.

So when it is said that a a I am judging, I am only discerning, for God is the only true judge.

For God will execute justice and his law will be carried out.

Judge in the Greek is krino which means to distinguish or to decide mentally or judicially, to by impl. to try, condemn punish, avenge and several more words.

I even judge myself at times and make the corrections needed.

I just don't believe the judges in this nation should be able to override the voice of the people.

Point is, we all judge whether we want to or not.

To let a handful of people decide for the millions in this nation based on what the minority wants over the majority does not seem right to me.

God will raise up his judges once again to free his oppressed people, not with a black robe or a gavel, but a white robe, crown and a sword!

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To put Christianity and same sex marriage in the same subject cause my eyes to roll.

The constitution protects the freedom of worship, not the desecration of what God started in the Garden of Eden, I seem to remember Adam and Eve, not, well you know the rest.

Seems to me if I am correct, that all the world's major faiths are against this.

Besides, if homosexuality was banned I am sure they would still do it, the same way as if Christianity was banned I would give my life to still practice it, would you?

-- Posted by michaelbell on Fri, Nov 28, 2008, at 7:52 PM

Michael Bell,

The best thing I can tell you is "Jury Nullification"!

Jury nullification is an act of a jury (its verdict) intended to make an official rule, especially a statute, void in the context of a particular case. In other words, "the process whereby a jury in a criminal case effectively nullifies a law by acquitting a defendant regardless of the weight of evidence against him or her."

This is the greatest way to take back laws that you don't want on the books. The law actually stays on the books but the new case does also. If your lawyer can find the jury nullified case he can use it in your favor or the other lawyer use it against you, whatever the case may be.

We may not be able to tell the judges what we want them to decide, but we can nullify any law by jury nullification just by going against any written laws we don't want or like.

Between 1380 and 1050 BC was the time between the Battle of Jericho and going into the Promise Land and the reign of King David. The kings went bad so the people followed.

Even in the days of Moses they had judges. It was Moses's father-in-law who told Moses to choose some dependable and honest men to be judges to take about 90% of the legal problems off Moses, so he could do other things.

Luke 11:45

45 Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also.

46 And he said, Woe unto you also, [ye] lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Luke 11:52

52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

dis⋅cern⋅ing- showing good or outstanding "judgment" and understanding:

Romans 2:1

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

James 4:12

There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

--> John 5:22

Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,

James 4:11

Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.

NOTICE! Very IMPORTANT:

U.S. Constitution

Article I, Section 8, Clauses 17 and 18

17. To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

18. To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Clause 17 defines the Federal Government's absolute jurisdiction or Washington, DC and all military bases and land ceded over to the government by the states with the consent of congress and all needful building and etc. These are federal territories and under it's exclusive jurisdiction.

(All federal legislation applies only within the federal territories as defined in Article I, Section 8, clause 17)

Clause 18. Says congress can make all laws rules and regulations and code necessary to carry into execution the foregoing power vested by this Constitution.

This means that congress can make any laws they want to without Constitutional limitations or restrictions when legislating for the federal citizens and federal territories, but when legislating for "We The People", they must do so with Constitutional Limitations and restrictions. (See below)

So when congress makes laws, they don't have to tell us that they don't apply to Sovereign citizens who are born in this country. We just assume they do because Congress Passed these laws. However, if they are inconsistent or contrary to the US Constitution, they are null and void. They do however apply to the federal citizens who owe their citizenship to the 14th Amendment.

This is why our Judges are a very important part of our lives. They have to make sure our rights under the Constitution are not violated by any laws, yet the laws may apply to 14th Amendment Citizens. It is a very important job.

I hate to think of the times when people elect new Senators and Legislators and especially congressmen because we don't know if these people really understand how the Constitution works and how important it is.

The Tennessee State Supreme Court Justices have let the state legislators rape the state constitution. The state constitution can only be changed, amended or repealed once every 6 years just like the U.S. Constitution. The state legislators change it just about every year.

So in summing it up, The CA Supreme Court MUST rule in favor of The US Constitution and the CA Constitution. We the People are the Sovereignty and our rights must be protected according to the U S Constitution or the law is null and Void.

"...While sovereign powers are delegated to the agencies of government, sovereignty itself remains with the People, by whom and for whom, all government exists and act."

Yick Wo vs Hopkins and Woo Lee vs Hopkins 118 U.S. 356 .

"Sovereignty itself is, of course, not subject to the law for it is the author and source of law;

Yick Wo vs Hopkins and Woo Lee vs Hopins 118 U.S. 356 .

Volume 16, American Jurisprudence, 177

"The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of its enactment, and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it. An unconstitutional law, in legal contemplation, is as if it had never been passed. Such a statute leaves the question that it purports to settle just as it would be had the statute not been enacted.

"Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principles follow that it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection, and justifies no acts performed under it....

"A void act cannot be legally consistent with a valid one. An unconstitutional law cannot operate to supersede any existing valid law. Indeed, insofar as a statute runs counter to the fundamental law of the land, it is superseded thereby.

"No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it."

NOTICE: This is public information and not to be construed as instruction on law nor legal advice.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, Nov 28, 2008, at 9:11 PM

michaelbell,

I will probably regret this, but all this is the least of our worries.

You need to go to:

http://www.rfid-666.com/

You may want to delete this post if you think it is too graphic or damaging for the loving Christians who don't want to fear the Lord and what he said is to come! I hope you don't, but I would understand. The "rfid" is the bio-chip used in animals and now being inserted in American families. It is interesting and scary at the same time.

This will give you everything you need to prove what you say about the end times are coming fast. We are talking about the year 2009 as being a year to remember. If anyone doesn't fear God, I don't know what they will do in the next year or two.

Parkerbrothers rasses me about having bad dreams now and then and fearing God, but he should see and read some of the things I have read and seen.

Fearing God is a good thing! Oh yeah! You will agree after viewing this website. The "FEAR" of God is the only thing that can save you from what is to come.

This website should be read and looked at by everyone, but I warn you... do so at your own risk. To all the skeptics I will only say...

2 Peter 3:3-18

3 First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.

4 They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."....

No one really knows what is going to happen, or when, but if just some of the things happen that have been suspected, we are in for a wild ride. I can only say I am glad I am at a ripe old age.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sat, Nov 29, 2008, at 12:22 AM

yes we can . . if you disagree with his posts so much then why do you read it? I have got upset about some of his posts but he is entitled to his beliefs and opinions just like the next person.

I mean really, I disagree with many things he says and sometimes I dont read his posts and then I get curious and read them and state my opinion and move on. You seem to thrive on wanting to "bash" people you disagree with . . . I am not seeing much intelligent debate coming from you either. It is like the pot calling the kettle black.

To be honest . . . I have never seen so much negativity from one person as I have from you.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Sat, Nov 29, 2008, at 12:59 AM

The slavery issue and homosexual issue are not even in the the same basket, although, the homosexualsare using the civil rights of the 60's as a building block for their movement.

Slavery is wrong and will always be the ghost that haunts American history.

Man's law wil never supercede God's law when it comes to me.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Sat, Nov 29, 2008, at 7:11 AM

To group slavery and homosexual issues in the same group is just wrong.

I have heard gay right supporters equate their strife to the civil rights of the 60's.

Slavery will always be the ghost that haunts out nations history, it was wrong and will always be wrong.

Unique I have that website on my favorites along with several others.

We preach the same message to a certain point, we don't always agree, but we follow the same God and his inspired word The Bible.

We don't have to force anyone to hear the message, the same as Noah, several died because they did not hear.

http://www.raptureready.com/

http://www.satansrapture.com/

Here are a few more that are interesting.

God always takes care of his messengers.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Sat, Nov 29, 2008, at 7:43 AM

I don't understand why they put things on the ballots to be voted on by the people if the courts are going to turn around and change what the people want. The more liberal judges they put in office the further to the left this country will go. God will only let this go on a little longer, then the only thing important will be if your saved or not.

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Sat, Nov 29, 2008, at 9:41 AM

Whatever yes we can . . . and I see you are doing an absolutely amazing job changing Michael's mind by being condescending and calling him names(name calling usually occurs when someone doesn't have anything intelligent to say).

Good for you, keep up the good work!!!

BTW . . . I love sarcasm.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Sat, Nov 29, 2008, at 11:06 AM

Michael . . actually many gay people have faced horrible conditions and experiences over the course of history just like those individuals during slavery, just not to the same numbers as the Africans and African-Americans. During the reign of Hitler in Germany, it is known that the Nazis performed heinous experiments on many homosexuals and they even faced the gas chambers just like the Jews.

Here is a little history for you . . .

Paragraph 175, a clause in German law prohibiting homosexual relations, was revised by Hitler in 1935 to include kissing, embracing, and gay fantasies as well as sexual acts. Convicted offenders - an estimated 25,000 just from 1937 to 1939 - were sent to prison and then later to concentration camps. Their sentence was to be sterilized, and this was most often accomplished by castration. In 1942 Hitler's punishment for homosexuality was extended to death.

Each prisoner in the concentration camps wore a colored inverted triangle to designate their reason for incarceration, and hence the designation also served to form a sort of social hierarchy among the prisoners. A green triangle marked its wearer as a regular criminal; a red triangle denoted a political prisoner. Two yellow triangles overlapping to form a Star of David designated a Jewish prisoner. The pink triangle was for homosexuals. A yellow Star of David under a superimposed pink triangle marked the lowest of all prisoners - a gay Jew.

Stories of the camps depict homosexual prisoners being given the worst tasks and labors. Pink triangle prisoners were also a proportionally large focus of attacks from the guards and even other inmates. Although the total number of the homosexual prisoners is not known, official Nazi estimates were an underwhelming 10,000.

Although homosexual prisoners reportedly were not shipped en masse to the death camps at Auschwitz, a great number of gay men were among the non-Jews who were killed there. Estimates of the number of gay men killed during the Nazi regime range from 50,000 to twice that figure. When the war was finally over, countless many homosexuals remained prisoners in the camps, because Paragraph 175 remained law in West Germany until its repeal in 1969.

But as far as today's gay individuals, they really are a bit out of line when they compare the two in reference to themselves because there is definitely a difference and definitely in the case of numbers and overall history and in context to today's times. Homosexuals though do experience some violence against them still . . .just ask the parents of Matthew Shepard.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Sat, Nov 29, 2008, at 11:23 AM

yes we can . . well provide facts and intelligent argument when confronting Michael on his beliefs just like I did and then maybe he might actually read and think about what he believes but if not, then move forward

Resorting to name calling and hateful remarks though never accomplishes anything other than alienating the person you are trying to talk to and making yourself look hateful and spiteful and foolish.

I mean really, your attitude in here is so bad that it definitely hasn't inspired me on anything other than to think you are a very bitter and sad person. I know several other people feel the same. And yes, I know you DON'T care which makes you even sadder.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Sat, Nov 29, 2008, at 11:30 AM

Do you really want to compare numbers of people who were enslaved or tortured or killed due to race or ethnicity versus those who were done the same due to sexual orientation?

Also, you are ranting as though I agree with Michael on what he says which I am not if you actually read what I am saying. WHAT I AM SAYING IS . . . the way you disagree with people lacks class and you could use a better way of stating your opinions and beliefs. That is what I am saying . . .I am not saying I am agreeing with everything he says because I definitely do not. What I am saying is your lack of class and tact in making a point or disagreeing with someone and your ability to lower yourself to the same standards you accuse of others of using makes your points less valid.

I am beginning to see you lack the knowledge to discern the difference. Don't accuse others of uncivility when you lack it yourself.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Sat, Nov 29, 2008, at 5:45 PM

yes we can,

Jaxspike is 100% right. Your ability to debate intelligently that with which you disagree is completely non existent. Your comments are extremely hateful and no one takes your points seriously.

It also says nothing for your character when you say you hate bigots. The hatred that you posess is no different than michael's really, it's just directed at another 'cause'.

-- Posted by gottago on Sat, Nov 29, 2008, at 6:08 PM

The majority of America did want slavery abolished and it was.

They wanted equality and got it, I am for all that.

I believe if the vote was put to the majority and truth be known marriage as the bible states it would be the only acceptable form of marriage.

I do not think judges should be able to decide what is acceptable or what isn't.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Sat, Nov 29, 2008, at 6:30 PM

yes we can,

No, you don't get. Most of us here are not bigots. We value justice, we do not imagine constant injustice nor do we encourage or condone bigotry in others around us.

I really wonder about you as you seem perceive more friction and hatred than what is presented. I know Michael gets carried away with the homosexual issue, but I believe his position stems from ignorance and from an unwillingness to learn. I believe he means no one harm.

-- Posted by gottago on Sat, Nov 29, 2008, at 9:26 PM

I don't hate homosexuals, just the act itself.

Several people I know, are either bi or homosexuals I don't hate them, I don't hang out with them either.

I don't hate anybody just the sin that makes them do the things they do.

You say I have a unwillingness to learn and ignorance, if believing and following the Word of God over what man thinks or says is ignorant, then ignornance is bliss.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Sat, Nov 29, 2008, at 10:29 PM

yes we can, I understand your use of literary device and rhetoric. You hate the injustice of bigots but not the bigot. Its like when Michael says he hates the sin and not the sinner. No one ever believes him either.

-- Posted by devan on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 6:49 AM

You toss around that"bigot" word like your weapon , and that is all fine.

People are classified as bigots when they don't agree with what the masses agree with.

Webster;s says a bigot, is one who regards members of a group with hatred and intolerance, a.k.a fanatic, enthusiast, zealot.

So if disliking groups of child molesters, rapist, thieves, rapist, murderers, gangs, and terrorist , then I guess I am a bigot.

P.E.T.A meat eaters as bigots, beef producers looks at P.E.T.A as bigots.

N.A.M.B.L.A looks in ones who stand in their way as bigots.

In case you don't know that is the assoc. who promotes over age men and underage boys who commit to each other as being normal and should be accepted.

We look at couples where there is a big age difference between the two and think that is wrong.

One generation is bigoted to the next as far as music, clothes or things like that.

We can all be considered bigots to a extent.

The group that a speaks out against another group is called a bigot.

They were all through the bible and all through history, so being called one does not bother me.

I am sure if you look deep enough , the gays have some group they hate.

By all means I am not a racist. God created all the races so they are all equal.

He chose the Jewish race to perform salvation through so I thank him for that.

I find bigots from family member to family member, I am intolerant of some of today's music and clothing styles and body piercing and things like that, and forbid my girls to do it, so if that makes me a bigot then so be it.

Even in God's kingdom[the church] their are bigots between denominations of Christians.

It is just a natural response to not like some things and you called a bigot for it, don't figure.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 8:25 AM

yes we can what you're not understanding is this when you are a Christian you live by what the bible tells you, God's word is the truth, if you believe worldly views then you live in a lie.

The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When a person continues in sin and disbelief, the Bible tells us that God "gives them over" to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual "offenders" will not inherit the kingdom of God.

God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17).

So this is God view of homosexuality. He views it as a sin, no greater no less then any other sin. Just because something is legal by our law does not mean it becomes legal in Gods law. His laws DO NOT CHANGE.

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 10:48 AM

Thank you Bellbuckle Tn. You have a blessed week.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 11:10 AM

bellbuckletn,

You also, didn't include MANY other parts of the bible in those verses. Remember you picked individual verses and never included the before and after parts. It states offenders, people who used sex against another person. That includes homosexuals and heterosexuals.

So let's really break this down so everyone can't really see what you mean.

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Immoral could mean anything NOT moral.

Idolatry could mean anything NOT God. hmm like maybe a book?

Adultery is meaning nor your wife or husband or someone else's wife or husband.

Nor the effeminate, this is where controversy starts. You can say one thing and someone else could be another thing. What does this mean? The first one, "malakoi", "literally means 'soft' and is no technical term for a homosexual." It apparently refers to young boys who would take the "recepient" position in anal sex, often for money. It's also translated in some Bibles as "morally weak". So there is two translations that I found.

homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], "Aresenokoitai", on the other hand, is clearly a sexual term, the New Testament occurrences are the earliest appearances of the word, it is not easy for us to be sure what it means. John Boswell in his recent study denies that it refers to a homosexual person in general but rather specifically to the male prostitute who could serve heterosexual or homosexual clients. At any rate, the sin is prostitution, not homosexuality in itself.

Now let's look at the other sins,

nor thieves - Pretty self explanatory

nor the greedy - wow there is a ton of that here in bedford county eh?

nor drunkards - Naaa no-one drinks here eh?

nor revilers - wow. no-one here uses abusive language eh? Nope never.

nor robbers - anyone use a weapon to hurt someone to gain an unfair advantage over them?

These are all in the same exact classification of sin in the new testament.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 12:49 PM

Yes we can,

OMG! We actually agree:-)

-- Posted by gottago on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 2:48 PM

Yes we can, get a bible and READ IT,

Evil Monkey, any one who is not saved will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Webster's Dictionary defines a Christian as "a person professing belief in Jesus as the Christ or in the religion based on the teaching of Jesus." While this is a good starting point in understanding what a Christian is, like many secular definitions, it falls somewhat short of really communicating the biblical truth of what it means to be a Christian.

Unfortunately over time, the word "Christian" has lost a great deal of its significance and is often used of someone who is religious or has high moral values instead of a true born again follower of Jesus Christ. Many people who don't believe and trust in Jesus Christ consider themselves Christians simply because they go to church or they live in a "Christian" nation. But going to church, serving those less fortunate than you, or being a good person does not make you a Christian.

The Bible teaches us that the good works we do cannot make us acceptable to God. Titus 3:5 tells us that it is "not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit." So, a Christian is someone who has been born-again by God (John 3:3; John 3:7; 1 Peter 1:23) and has put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ.

Hell is going to be full of people who are basically good, they help other, give to charities, and live good honest lives, but will go to hell if they are not SAVED.

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 3:30 PM

Hell is going to be full of people who are basically good, they help other, give to charities, and live good honest lives, but will go to hell if they are not SAVED.

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 3:30 PM

I hope you don't believe that, as it is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Nothing like a biblical literalist to completely destroy the message.

-- Posted by gottago on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 3:54 PM

Then I pray you please enlighten us with the true message then, please I am so lost.

If we are not to take the bible literally, then how do we take it?, or why even take it at all!

-- Posted by michaelbell on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 4:00 PM

Let me try another approach.

Do any of you have chidren, if not do you remember being a child, and rules that you or your parents laid out.

When my children break the rules they are punished, not because I'm mad at them, but because I love them and want only the best for them.

God does the same thing with his children, He has rules and when we disobey them, He punishments us. He wants us to trust and obey Him, and living in this world that is a very hard thing to do. The devil temps us at every turn. The reward we get for excepting Him is Heaven.

I feel I'm a just and loving parent, but I will still punish my children when they do wrong. God is just and loving God but He will also punish His children when they do wrong.

Every soul will have ever lasting life, meaning your soul will live forever, ever, ever........

It will either be in Heaven if your saved.

Or it will be in Hell if your not.

There's not riding the fence.

You can never be a good enough person, we're all born in SIN, and through Jesus Christ is the only way into Heaven.

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 4:02 PM

As my grandfather would have said"That's the God's truth put as plain as the nose on your face"

He always had a way of putting things.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 4:33 PM

Ok so if a homosexual is saved then he goes to heaven. What is the problem here?

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 5:00 PM

How can you be truly saved and remain a homosexual? That is what I am asking.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 5:07 PM

I have already proved that you can be saved and a homosexual.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 5:14 PM

Well, one has to ask then if you can be saved and remain overweight and still go to heaven. I dont say that to be mean to you Michael because I definitely am not skinny myself . . . just the first point that I could think of. We are all sinners when we die and no one is perfect . . . how does one distinguish where the cut off point is on who goes to heaven and hell? Only God knows what is in our hearts and minds . . . no one else does and it is God's place to judge accordingly.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 5:46 PM

I agree, I am not saying who goes or who does not, I just do not wanr to see the homosexual agenda include marriage, raising children or being taught in schools as being acceptable.

I don' wabt churches or preachers being forced to accept it, I for one won't.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 5:50 PM

I guess the same way anyone else enters Heaven imperfect.

Are we all to be 100% flaw-free when our time here ends or are we going to be relying on the perfection of our Saviour?

Even if I could eradicate all the defects I know I have,there'd still be those I don't acknowledge or I'm ignorant of.

Even if I accomplished. every good thing I could manage,there'd still be plenty left undone.

If I had the power or wisdom to do it all on my own,I wouldn't need God.

(I'd have to BE God!)

If I could ignore my messed up state and still enjoy Heaven,I'd have a pretty cushy,undemanding situation.

The reality we're stuck with is that we are finite beings offered infinite Grace.

Where our power stops,God's continues.

This applies to ALL of us-not just the best of us nor the worst of us.

That's why we aren't asked to stop being gays,drug-users,meat-eaters,gossips,spendthrifts,misers,litterbugs,gluttons, thieves,rapists,gamblers or packrats.

We are asked to START believing on Jesus Christ,act on that belief to the best of our abilities and let the Lord make up the deficit when our strength falters.

If I'm not mistaken,we'll find people in Heaven who owned slaves and listened to rock music.

There might be people who died or were Raptured while still owning televisions and wearing braided hair,tattoos or blended fabrics.

There could be people in Hell who gave their time and money to the poor,fought for good causes,were kind to others and never uttered a vile or unkind word.

I know this is my signature tune but I'm going to play it again.

We aren't "good" to get saved.

We become "good" ( or better) because we are saved.

We're works in progress.

We have to be ready for God to remake us according to HIS will-not ours or that of our family,friends or culture.

We might seem pretty o.k. when our time here is up but we'll still need refining.

God might not change what we would have Him alter nor what those around us would want Him to perfect.

He might even make us "worse" ("Oh my! Junior's become a Libertarian!") or change what we think are our best virtues.

("Uhhhh,God? I'm a great athelete and public speaker,why am I here at a desk with no one to talk to?")

We'd better not even ask the Lord to put us "anywhere but a battlefield or around sick people" lest we be assigned to a field hospital.

We have to be willing to stop being gay if God wills it.

We have to be ready to breathe methane if it serves God's design for our lives.

We have to prepare ourselves to accept discomfort,the comtempt of others,life-threatening danger and the total upheaval of our lives for Him.

We'd better also ready our selves for lives more productive,more contented,healthier and more dynamic than our wildest,most blissful dreams.

We are meant to have life and have it more abundantly.

That's ALL of us.

We may have to get it on His terms but what we receive will be far better than anything we give up out of love for Him.

-- Posted by quantumcat on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 6:07 PM

I'm sorry you think I'm not civil, but I don't find it necessary to be civil toward hateful bigots, because their positions are wholly uncivil in the first place. when are you going to get that through your head?

-- Posted by yes we can on Sat, Nov 29, 2008, at 5:49 PM

Then you become the sad caricature of those that you seem to despise. Nothing is ever gained from the way you handle a discussion . . . your language and tone only makes the situation and argument even more divisive. You don't have to agree or believe in what they say or even accept it but if you truly want to change people's perception then talk to them as fellow human beings and communicate in a civilized manner about your difference and you will find that it tends to open more ears than crude language and abusive behavior. And yes, many may not change their mind even when you follow that path you have a better chance than using the negative tone you seem to indulge in. Isn't that what Jesus did during his time on earth . . . he sat and talked to the lowest of sinners and didn't degrade them or call them names, he listened to them and explained his belief and how it could change their lives. Are you saying your negative ways are better than his because I haven't seen any positive results from your posts on here while Jesus has had many many pages written about his. But really, just because they may have a different opinion than you doesn't mean they are a bad person. Michael and I have had many disagreements and I get upset at some of the things he says but deep down I know he is a good person at heart who just has a different set of beliefs than I do. I am sure you are the same way if you allow people to see past the negative tone you always set. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I think you are a bigot or evils . . . just means we have different set of values and morals and perception of the environment around us and that may lead me to think you are less informed or civilized than me but it doesn't make me think you are some huge evil vindictive troll. Not yet at least . . .

-- Posted by jaxspike on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 6:08 PM

That is the thing . . . you wont be forced to accept it Michael. There are many churches who already agree to allow homosexuals to marry in their church and I believe there is even a church in Nashville with strictly gay members. There is no need to force any church to accept gay marriage . . . I think they are just mostly trying to get it accepted when it comes to legal issues and for equality and respect in situations like insurance and work place regulations. I mean abortion is legal but churches arent forced to accept it nor do they ban churches from preaching against it so how is gay marriage any different?

-- Posted by jaxspike on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 6:14 PM

I have just read in a few places where they will make it a hate crime to talk against gays, even in churches.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 6:22 PM

And to think, everyone has their own opinion as to what laws we should allow or impose on the gays, prostitutes murderers, thieves or anyone else who is doing anything that we don't think is proper for christians to do.

We have all agreed that we are not under the law but under grace, yet want to make laws inspite of what Jesus done for us.

I tell you that Jesus fulfilled the law, but only for the born again christians. Any one who is NOT born again is still bound by the laws and ten commandments. SO any laws, we the people, would enact would only apply to sinners who are not born again.

How would that differ from the laws today? If you are born again you won't be a homosexual and the laws wouldn't apply to you, but if you are a sinner, why would you care if they get married or not? That is just concerning yourself with the world again which you are forbidden to do.

We have been taught that we are not to accept the mark of the beast nor worship him nor hid image. We could make laws preventing our Government from allowing the false religion and anti-christ into our country, but that won't happen. It is written that it will happen and the people WILL Accept the Mark of the Beast and even worship the Beast and his Image.

When that happens...everything will be different. The Homosexuals and murderers and thieves and idolaters and adulterers and sinners of all kinds will be in the Beast's favor and the christians will be the ones imprisoned or killed.

All my life I was taught that God would not put more on us than we could stand. I just assumed that it was talking about pain and suffering. He wouldn't put more pain and suffering on us than we could stand, but What the bible really says is...God won't allow the temptation to be more than we can stand.

1 Corinthians 10:13

13 The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure.

This means that when we are born again and we are tempted to sin again, God will show us a way out so that we won't do the sin. If we stay in his word that is enough for us not to sin.

When the Beast takes over the world, the whole world will be one big Sodom and Gomorrah. Christians won't have any say in what goes on and what won't be allowed. In fact, there won't be any Christian Religions at all at that time.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Dec 1, 2008, at 12:03 AM

We as believers are told to go into all the world and preach the gospel.

I for one love my country and want to do my best to keep some sense of morality in it.

We can go into the world and not partake of its evil, and do our best to someone out with us.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Mon, Dec 1, 2008, at 6:01 AM

Hell is going to be full of people who are basically good, they help other, give to charities, and live good honest lives, but will go to hell if they are not SAVED.

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 3:30 PM

I hope you don't believe that, as it is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Nothing like a biblical literalist to completely destroy the message.

-- Posted by gottago on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 3:54 PM

bellbuckletn,

I have to say, you completely understand the gospel. There will always be people like gottago that will never grasp the true message.

Faith in our own good works will get us nowhere. It is only Faith in the beautiful finished work of Christ that will redeem us. Only when we accept this gift can we understand love and go then and do our first good works, not because we have to but because we want to. Works not done in the public eye but from the private heart.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Mon, Dec 1, 2008, at 8:09 AM

Good Morning folks:

After having read the spirited debate above, it is almost impossible for me not to comment.

My dictionary defines a bigot as one who is "blindly intolerant of another's view(s)". Is not "blindly" the key word in the definition?

My second query is two-part and concerns the California proposition directly. Was not the essence of that question to say that their society would not recognize homosexual bonding as a State sanctioned union and, was there any language prohibiting homosexual behavior??

My third and last inquiry to those of you who so readily quote "God" is: since you speak with Him frequently and personally, will you be so kind as to ask Him for an answer to our current financial problem?

-- Posted by garhawk on Mon, Dec 1, 2008, at 8:37 AM

The Bible is quite clear that our own works do not help merit salvation. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done" (Titus 3:5). "Not of works" (Ephesians 2:9). "There is none righteous, no not one" (Romans 3:10). This means that offering sacrifices, keeping the commandments, going to church, being baptized, and other good deeds are incapable of saving anyone. No matter how "good" we are, we can never measure up to God's standard of holiness (Romans 3:23; Matthew 19:17; Isaiah 64:6).

The Bible is just as clear that salvation is conditional; God does not save everyone. The one condition for salvation is faith in Jesus Christ. Nearly 200 times in the New Testament, faith (or belief) is declared to be the sole condition for salvation (John 1:12; Acts 16:31).

Satan, the ruler of the world, plants thoughts in our heads. He, and anyone who follows his ways, is an enemy to God (1Pet 5:8). Satan always disguises himself as good (2 Corinthians 11:14), but he has control over all the minds that do not belong to God. "Satan, the god of this evil world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe, so they are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News that is shining upon them. They don't understand the message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God" (2 Corinthians 4:4).

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Mon, Dec 1, 2008, at 9:14 AM

-- Posted by garhawk on Mon, Dec 1, 2008, at 8:37 AM

garhawk,

Perhaps He has already revealed the forthcoming outcome to your third enquiry almost 2000 years ago?

9If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Might be the answer to what you are seeing. Might not be. I do happen to believe it is time.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Mon, Dec 1, 2008, at 9:17 AM

In other words, when the anti-christ gets here your financial problems will be over (If) you don't fear God and accept the Mark of the Beast and worship the Beast and his image.

If not, then you won't be able to work, buy nor sell nor trade anything because you don't have the Mark of the Beast or his number. Without this Mark Christians won't be able to buy food, pay their bills or mortgages/rent/taxes. They won't be able to drive without a car or drivers license nor rent a taxi cab or take a bus. Life as we know it now will be a thing of the past. All Christians will be trouble makers to the new system and will be considered "Terrorists". We will be imprisoned and tortured then killed. We will only be able to preach the word of God to our cell mates and that will end abruptly

When it comes to knowing who this beast is, there are 6 or more different mathematical formulas for coming up with the number of the Beast. I saw a website yesterday that gave the name "William J Clinton" as being equal to 666 using both the Hebrew and Greek numbering system.

http://becomingone.org/666.htm

By doing computations with these different systems these names and things add up to be 666: kissinger, van den broek, lustiger... hitler, deutschland, himmler... new york, us of america, santa claus, kennedy, al gore... Holy Bible, SS number, witchcraft, lustful, monetary, live, son of sin, mark of beast, evil, bullet... internet, billgates+3 (the III), computer, terminal, binairy, windows78, teletext and who knows what else?

We won't know who the Beast is until he shows up, then only the christians who know He must come before Christ will be smart enough to figure it out. Most people will think it is Christ because of the miracles he performs. They will also accept the mark of the beast. Remember what the bible says... it is easier for a camel to go thru the eye of a needle than a rich man go to heaven. Not many rich people will want to give up their money, homes, cars, status and jobs by refusing the Mark of the Beast. It will only sound foolish to most people. Is that the Financial solution you are looking for? That is the big one coming, take it or leave it.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Dec 1, 2008, at 11:38 AM

Well said Unique-Lies

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Mon, Dec 1, 2008, at 2:55 PM

Like many in the silent majority, we rely on the strong standards set by the constitution. These standards plus the Bill of Rights, help elected officials do thier job in governing our country. I disagree that a majority rule or vote should negate any of the standards or rights insured each of us, as free agents(men or women),in a nation based on equality.

I read your comments and even though I think you are off base in many areas, I have defended your right to your beliefs and the right to express them. I do not believe a vote of the people should over ride these basic rights. You correctly (in my opinion) pointed out that the eventual judge will execute justice. We just may be surprised at what "judge not, lest you be judged" really entails.

-- Posted by dipperdan on Mon, Dec 1, 2008, at 5:18 PM

I thank you for defending those rights as I have my brother and all the rest of our soldiers.

I still can't see a small group overriding the majority vote.

I discern according to the bible and nothing more , Jesus will do the judging.

Even if laws are passed to allow same sex marriage, I still would not agree with it, because the bible still says it is wrong.

Tolerate it, yes accept it, no.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Mon, Dec 1, 2008, at 6:13 PM

michaelbell,

Our sins and debts are forgiven us as we forgive others. If we don't forgive others, neither will God forgive us. We are to mind our own business and live our life according to God's will. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.

Matthew 6:11-12

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Mark 11:25-26

25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Mark 11:26

26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Luke 11:2-4 (New International Version)

2 He said to them, "When you pray, say: "'Father, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come.

3 Give us each day our daily bread.

4 Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation.'"

1 Thessalonians 4:1-12 (New International Version)

1 Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. 2 For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.

3 It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;

4 that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable,

5 not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God;

6 and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you.

7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.

8 Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.

9 Now about brotherly love we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other.

10 And in fact, you do love all the brothers throughout Macedonia. Yet we urge you, brothers, to do so more and more.

11 Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we told you,

12 so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Dec 1, 2008, at 9:20 PM

Enough of the homosexual debate. Don't you people get tired of going over the same debate time after time? Let's talk about a real sin. The slaughter in India. The BBC reported that the Indian Muslims do not want the dead terroist buried in their graveyards. They say that these life forms were not followers of Islam and do not deserve to lay with true followers. For once a Muslim iman has denoucned the actions of a few despots. Any opinons on that?

-- Posted by Chef Boy R.D. on Mon, Dec 1, 2008, at 11:01 PM

My opinion is that it is relatively easy to manipulate any deeply devout person of any given ethical monotheistic faith into committing heinous acts such as this one. I further believe that the harder the life experiences endured by any group has a direct relationship to the percentage of deeply devout members contained within it, compounding through generations.

Christians have had their share of despots, and it does not stand to reason that they will not produce more in the future as well. I do not think the problem lies in either faith, just the manipulation of them. The worst part of the incident to me was that the murderers believed they were doing the right and just thing by killing these people without cause.

And just so you do not forget what the subject is, I will tie it to homosexuality by saying that I do not think it would take much to encourage some people in this nation to feel justified in addressing the homosexual problem in the same manner as the witches were dealt with. The right mix of fear, suffering and a little extra indoctrination would likely prove that we have the same capabilities among us as well.

-- Posted by memyselfi on Tue, Dec 2, 2008, at 1:32 AM

First off , the terrorist were Muslim, the same as the ones who pulled off 911.

Probably according to some, America was behind both attacks.

They may have been extremist, but the were aiming for Americans, Britons and Jews, 99% of the Muslims hate us, but we still are scared to offend them, I for one am not.

If people can't see the economy, the terrorist attacks, the attacks on God's people, these are all a sign of things to come.

As in the days of Noah, the coming of the Son of Man.

Things started to take form as of May 15 1948, the birth of the Fig Tree.[ISRAEL]

The bible is being fulfilled as we speak.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Tue, Dec 2, 2008, at 5:24 AM

Homosexuality is a free will of someone. It is their choice. They have to answer to One Judge, it's not our place to judge.

Those of us who know better won't, those of you that don't will sit on here.

Free will is a double edge sword, but it is given to us by our Maker. Everyone tells a little white lie, everyone has unclean thoughts, I'd bet everyone has hesitated and looked at the filth that fills our televisions daily. Everyone has fallen short of the Glory of God. Not one sin outweighs the other.

To compare the gay movement to Civil Rights movements, is ridiculous. Civil Rights movement was about God's children seeking recognition as human beings.

If they want to be gay, married, with benefits, who are we to judge, it's not your souls they're sending to Hell. Let their line at the pearly gates be long....I'll take the express lane with a few chapters on my own short comings.

-- Posted by starparent on Tue, Dec 2, 2008, at 3:33 PM

-- Posted by starparent on Tue, Dec 2, 2008, at 3:33 PM

That's the true Christian spirit. As long as "me" makes it why worry with anyone else. Christianity is all about "me" isn't it?

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Tue, Dec 2, 2008, at 10:19 PM

I have already proved that you can be saved and a homosexual.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 5:14 PM

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

I have proved they can not continue in their life style and still go to Heaven.

I sometimes feel like throwing my hands up in the air and saying I'm saved the rest of you are on your own after being called a bigot, a psycho, ignorant, hateful,and many more mean names, But God tells us to go out and spread His word. Being a Christian has been an uphill battle since the begining of time and will be til the end of time.

I sure don't want to stand before God and have Him have a list of people I came in contact with during my life and I didn't at least try to tell them about God, about how to be saved, no matter who they are or what their life style might be.

I will no doubt offend a lot more people as I go through my life. Just trying to tell about the wonderful gift God has waiting for anyone who will just except Him.

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 11:07 AM

I have already proved that you can be saved and a homosexual.

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sun, Nov 30, 2008, at 5:14 PM

I have proved they can not continue in their life style and still go to Heaven.

I sure don't want to stand before God and have Him have a list of people I came in contact with during my life and I didn't at least try to tell them about Him, about how to be saved, no matter who they are or what their life style might be.

I will no doubt offend a lot more people as I go through my life. Just trying to tell about the wonderful gift God has waiting for anyone who will just except Him.

-- Posted by bellbuckletn on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 11:08 AM

20 or 30 years ago this wouldn't even have been something up for debate but now it's all "out of the closet". What do my children have to worry about 20 years from NOW. Rights for pedophiles? After all they can't help themselves...they were just born that way. Rights for those who want to have their elderly parents "put to sleep" because they are too old? Drain on society you know. Sickening!

-- Posted by titanup1 on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 11:45 AM

bellbuckletn,

Do not throw up both hands and quit. If you step on 7 Billion toes to help rescue one eternal soul you have done a job well done.

No doubt, you will even be hated by some, but we were warned of that beforehand.

One of the things that drew me into these blogs was reading them for the first time and seeing the lashing and hatred (thrown stones) that was directed at Michael for his efforts of trying to warn souls of the impending wrath of God toward sin and proclaiming the only acceptable appeasement that can protect and spare you from this wrath which is Christ.

All I could visualize the first time I read a blog on here was the stoning of Stephen. I thought back about how Paul had stood by and watched, holding the garments of those who were stoning Stephen and how that bothered him the rest of his life. I learned a lesson from that and decided that inaction to a wrong action is just as wrong as the action itself if not actually more wrong. Stephen sure could have used Paul's help that day.

So in essence I hope you remain here to catch a few of the rocks being thrown . Everytime you catch one it is one less the body of Michael has to absorb. And who knows, maybe just maybe, someone in a lifetime will be converted from a rock thrower to a rock catcher because of you.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 11:57 AM

Parkerbrothers will have plney of time to study the scriptures before long. Instead of throwing rocks, they throw cars.

-- Posted by Chef Boy R.D. on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 12:08 PM

-- Posted by titanup1 on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 11:45 AM

titanup1,

You understand the problem. That is why we can not be so inactive and allow things just to keep slowly slipping in.

The silent Christian is one of the devils best workers. A lazy Christian is another good thing for Satan to have. He has even deceived many into justifying their laziness with scriptures. He has taken the word "judge" and gave it to lazy Christians to justify their laziness and inaction and taught the unsaved to use it to fight conviction of sin if instituted by the Holy Spirit.

Will your children have to worry about pedophiles? I guarantee you they will if the first major sexually deviant sin keeps working its way gradually into acceptance. The pedophiles will demand the same rights as the homosexual and they will actually have case law to use and secure these things. If the homosexual issue makes it, the pedophile issue will have 10 times easier and quicker access to the same.

And yes, it is sickening.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 12:30 PM

Parkerbrothers will have plney of time to study the scriptures before long. Instead of throwing rocks, they throw cars.

-- Posted by Chef Boy R.D. on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 12:08 PM

Another rock thrower from the bushes with a mask that is ignorant of the subject matter.

Even the misguided Jews stoning Stephen did not wear a mask.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 1:21 PM

i think the disdain of your positions comes into play when you all compare homosexuality to things like bestiality and pedophilia. homosexuality occurs between consenting adults, just like heterosexual relationships occur. bestiality involves humans and animals (which cannot consent)

Posted by Chef Boy R.D. on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 12:08 PM

If the cow doesn't consent she can kick the bucket out from under the farmer.

All joking set aside, with consent or without consent they are exactly the same. They are wrong and sinful. Just as adultery between two of the opposite sex is wrong, whether it be consentual or not.

Two people thinking a wrong is right and consenting to it does not make it right.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 1:29 PM

comparing homosexuality to pedophilia makes you an ignorant ass

-- Posted by yes we can on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 1:29 PM

And we have another masked rock thrower to toss one from behind the bushes.

Must be National Ashamed Day.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 1:31 PM

Yes, I beleive it is National Ashamed Day.

At least they do know what they are poking around in.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 1:36 PM

That's the last thing I want to be around some of you guys.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 1:42 PM

Beastiality and pedophilia aren't enough,now we're promoting coprophagia???

Oh dear...

I wish folks would lose the legalism and focus on a relationship with God.

What labels we wear,what acts we perform and what our human natures are matter little in the long run.

Doing and being all the "right" things without regard for the Lord's desire for our lives is wrong.

Putting His will first,no matter what demands that would place on us is the only appropriate choice for our lives.

We can,perhaps,discover His desires within Holy Writ,the counsel of those we respect,the rules of our cultures,etc.

But,we get our ultimate "marching orders" from consulting with God directly and looking to the Word to confirm or negate what we *think* is appropriate for our lives.

We may often act against our natures but God is never cruel or thoughtless or arbitrary.

Never will he ask anything of us that is beyond our strength or against our best interests.

Even when we can't understand what He asks of us,we must know that He is just and caring.

He will say 'yes' to loving,respectful relationships.

He will say 'no' to any liasons that would endanger or degrade us or those involved with us.

This applies to every part of our lives from our souls to our planet and beyond.

When in doubt,we can model our acts within our homes,our workplaces and the world arena after how God Himself behaves.

Anything that feels false and selfish is not of God.

If we are honorable and life-affirming,we are becoming Christs in miniature.

Instead of putting ourselves and those around us in little boxes,we should ask God: "Who do you want us to be and what do you want us to do?"

Then,His Word becomes less of a rulebook to get distorted and more of a family journal with some pages recording names,dates,anecdotes and inventory and some pages left blank for the parts He is writing at this moment.

-- Posted by quantumcat on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 2:17 PM

Only ignorance I see on here is you yes we can . . . there is NO POINT in using that language or the abusive nature of your last posts.

-- Posted by jaxspike on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 2:46 PM

What labels we wear,what acts we perform and what our human natures are matter little in the long run.

Posted by quantumcat on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 2:17 PM

quantumcat,

I hope you are trying to be sarcastic or either quoting from one of the lost stones that got buried in Sodom discovered recently?

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 3:04 PM

jaxspike,

No need to complain about yeswecan's comments. He, she, or it has my permission to tell me to eat s*** in one breath and call me an a****** in their next as they did before they were removed by the TG. If that is their opinion of me that is their opinion of me. It just has to be that way.

The nature and subject of some of these blogs draws out an array of opinions of which all should be entitled to express.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 5:12 PM

Posted by Chef Boy R.D. on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 12:08 PM

If the cow doesn't consent she can kick the bucket out from under the farmer.

All joking set aside, with consent or without consent they are exactly the same. They are wrong and sinful. Just as adultery between two of the opposite sex is wrong, whether it be consentual or not.

Two people thinking a wrong is right and consenting to it does not make it right.

-- I did not make that post parkerbros.

-- Posted by Chef Boy R.D. on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 5:51 PM

Chef Boy R.D,

Sorry, I don't know what happened. I also thought it was posted by yeswecan. The TG removed several of their post today and perhaps that is what happened and caused the error?

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 8:26 PM

When you wear all of the armour of God, those stones have no effect.

They just bounce off, unlike Goliath who got rocked by God's servant David.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Thu, Dec 4, 2008, at 5:56 AM

I'm just glad to see men like you who have seen the light and recognized it and have a desire to bring others out of the deception with you to the light.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Thu, Dec 4, 2008, at 7:52 AM

"Doing and being all the 'right' things without regard for the Lord's desire for our lives is wrong."

"Putting His will first (no matter what demands that would place on us) is the only appropriate choice for our lives."

"But,we get our ultimate "marching orders" from consulting with God directly and looking to the Word to confirm or negate what we *think* is appropriate for our lives."

"Never will He ask anything of us that is beyond our strength or against our best interests."

"When in doubt,we can model our acts within our homes,our workplaces and the world arena after how God Himself behaves."

"Instead of putting ourselves and those around us in little boxes,we should ask God: 'Who do you want us to be and what do you want us to do?'"

Marvin,

perhaps you missed these parts while you were reading.

I don't think it's all about us or what we think ought to be appropriate.

(We're finite and don't always live up to the potential for good we have.

God is infinite in wisdom and virtue.

When we rely on HIS grace for our salvation and take His will to direct our behavior,then we fare a lot better than when we try to make it on our own.)

It's ironic that assuming a servant's spirit is the surest way of having control of our lives.

(If we assume that it's God we choose to serve.)

The world tries to convince us that God is against the erotic.

(He's not. He INVENTED it.)

He objects to our obsession with it (whether we are pro or con on the subject) at the expense of the more necessary agape.

Oxygen is a good thing.

It gives our bodies' life.

Erotic love is a good thing.

It energizes our spirits.

But,oxygen (especially without traces of nitrogen,etc.) can be destructive to our flesh.

(That's why we need antioxidant vitamins to stay healthy.)

Forms of love like eros and philios (brotherly love) and love of country are fine IF they are tempered with the unselfish love of the Holy Spirit.

Otherwise,they have little merit and are very likely to do us harm.

Man wants to "cure" the world by eradicating anything he suspects might be problematic.

God,the Creator of all things,is less interested in eliminating than He is restoring them to their original design.

There are challenges for us that have nothing to do with the presence of the erotic.

I can't think of any that don't involve a lack of agape.

Can we concentrate on adding reason and compassion to the world and trust that putting God first in our lives will take care of everything else?

-- Posted by quantumcat on Thu, Dec 4, 2008, at 11:15 AM

God,the Creator of all things,is less interested in eliminating than He is restoring them to their original design.

Can we concentrate on adding reason and compassion to the world and trust that putting God first in our lives will take care of everything else?

Posted by Posted by quantumcat on Thu, Dec 4, 2008, at 11:15 AM

quantumcat,

Yes, God is interested in restoring them to His original design but you can not be in denial of His Great Flood that eliminated. Furthermore you must reconcile the fact that although He promised to never eliminate again with water He did foretell and promise the use of fire.

Yes, we can concentrate on adding reason and compassion, but it must be presented as the good news for the bad news. Good news would not be such great news if the bad news was not so bad.

What is the good news about? What was Christ purpose? What was His mission? What was His passion quantumcat?

Christ is a Saviour. What is He saving us from quantumcat?

And believe me I don't need a bunch of one line pretty thoughts to relate to. Talk to me in layman terms and tell me about this good news you know about.

-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Fri, Dec 5, 2008, at 8:03 AM

I was online searching for a long lost friend when I was directed to this blog... I am happy to know that my friend is standing strong for the gospel of Christ! No matter where we are in life, when we stumble upon the truth - it is an awesome event that changes the course of the rest of our lives - and after that perseverance that develops character and character that develops HOPE. A Hope that does not disappoint us!

I will leave the theology to those gifted with theology, but in layman's terms say "as the adopted children of God - those saved by the blood of His Son, Jesus Christ - we may not always be seeking God's presence in our lives, but "HE always knows the ways that we take" and waits for us to return to Him. We may be tattered from the wars we have tried to fight on our own, but He is more than willing and able to pick us up, wipe our faces and surround us with His love and forgiveness. All we need to do is ask!

-- Posted by bkpow on Fri, Dec 5, 2008, at 9:36 AM

but in layman's terms say "as the adopted children of God - those saved by the blood of His Son, Jesus Christ - we may not always be seeking God's presence in our lives, but "HE always knows the ways that we take"

Posted by bkpow on Fri, Dec 5, 2008, at 9:36 AM

bkpow,

What can wash away my sin?

Nothing but the blood of Jesus;

What can make me whole again?