|
I was born in 68 which was on the tail end of the civil rights movement. I was told all the stories after I got older and read the history books. I have noticed that a lot of today's youth don't even know who Martin Luther King Jr was. They scream and war for civil rights, but don't even know what the battle was like in the 60′S. I have great respect for Mr. King for standing firm in his beliefs and for being a man of God. Tomorrow will fulfill his dream as Barack Obama is sworn is as president. I see a new agenda on civil rights in his administration that he and the country had better take seriously. Not a battle between races, gender or religion, but a battle against one of God's first commandments and that is for one MAN and one WOMAN to form ONE! To stop them from being together is virtually impossible, to deny them basic rights is wrong, but to desecrate the bonds of Marriage and to compare this agenda to the one of the 60's is wrong. Civil unions is one thing. But the Christian community that oppose the gay agenda, should not be forced to give in and support it. Clergy should not be forced to join the two in union. There has been cases all over the country where Christian businesses has been solicited to cater to a homosexual couple, refused then find themselves in a lawsuit or even what could be jail in the future. Obama has fulfilled the dream of Mr. King let see what kind of nightmares he will have. Send prayers his way because he will need them. GOD BLESS AMERICA!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luth...
![[Masthead]](http://www.t-g.com/images/nameplate.png)
Email link
Read comments (207)
Blog archive
Share link
Facebook
Twitter
del.icio.us
Digg
StumbleUpon
Technorati
Newsvine
Reddit
Google
![[Feed icon]](http://www.t-g.com/images/icons/feed-icon-14x14.png){kind=icon}
"but a battle against one of God's first commandments and that is for one MAN and one WOMAN to form ONE!"
maybe you could point me to the appropriate verses, so i can read this commandment for myself. yes, i am familiar with genesis 2:24, which says you leave your family, and does say become "one flesh", however it seems that the bible condones becoming one flesh with any number of wives.
as best as i can determine, the bible defines marriage as between one man, and as many women as he could afford.
Thar was not the original intent, man just messed it up like always.
How on earth you managed to make Martin Luther King Day all about gay marriage is beyond me.
Why don't you set us straight Mr Bell.
The gay marriage issue has been compared to the issues of the 60's. There is no comparison in the two.
Nobody ask you or anyone else to read these blogs. they are of my opinion and my beliefs and no one else's.
All I am saying is, that the gay marriage issue will be the powder keg of this generation.
We will have supporters and protesters on both sides, I just hope we don't have the violence or deaths that they had back then.
I've always found the gay people that I know personally, to be far less violent than the racists that I know.
You on the other hand, seem like you would have no qualms at all about inciting a riot.
I am not trying to start a riot, just trying to point out the trouble we will have in the foreseeable future.
I do not believe in violence to get the point across.
I just believe, if the bible says it is wrong, it is wrong, case closed.
Why are so many of you so hostile in your comments? Good grief! Now is the time we need to come together and pray for this nation and the one who will be leading it. I personally did not vote for him, but I can stand in faith and pray that he will make wise Godly decisions. There is so much strife in people and we as Christians need to stand up to the enemy and stop it.
see, michaelbell, i am one of the good guys. i am not criticizing your choice of topic, or the admittedly long leap from martin luuther king day to gay marriage. i am just looking to clarify your basis.
since you seem to have fallen short of finding the biblical reference that marriage between one man and one woman is god's commandment, perhaps instead you can point out the biblical reference which says that gay marriage is wrong?
I have pointed them out the same as others have , and people still don't see it.
For those interested I will be posting on USA Today also.
http://www.usatoday.com/community/profil...
Romans 1v26-27 and 1Cor 6v9
But like all sins, they can be forgiven, repent and turn away.
I can't wait to see how the USAT readers respond to you. Should be entertaining, to say the least.
romans is always difficult territory for me. even serious bible scholars are in disagreement about the intentions of paul in writing romans, and i am hardly an expert.
however, if you take a peek at v 21 & 22, which lead into the listing of "bad" behavior, the root problem he is addressing is not the list of "bad" behaviors, but the arrogance of people who set themselves up as experts to lead others, rather than seeking to follow god themselves. i have always been particularly fond of verse 22; "professing themselves to be wise, they became fools." the listing of "bad" behaviors seems more to be a threatened result of the arrogance that he is preaching against, than something being preached against in itself.
corinthians is a lot more straightforward. the primary focus of the chapter in question, interestingly enough, is an admonition to the members of the church against addressing issues within the church, or between church members through the civil institutions of the time. (corinth was an especially litigous society, if you are seeking biblical parallels to the USA of today) that is certainly an odd reference to use to justify a call for using our current civil institutions to impose our personal beliefs on others.
while i do not doubt that paul was opposed to homosexual behavior, as a manifestation of general licentiousness, paul could easily be described as an unfettered advocate of complete celibacy. if you move on to corinthians 7, 8 & 9. you find paul stating that those who cannot meet the demands of celibacy should marry, rather than engaging in sex outside marriage. it is no more of a stretch than many you have made, to extend that to homosexuals, who, if they cannot meet the demands of celibacy, SHOULD marry. in a convoluted way, one could see paul as endorsing gay marriage.
for myself, i find in the bible an underlying theme of separating civil and religious authority (render unto caesar that which is caesar's, render unto god that which is god's). i strongly believe that it is the proper place of each church to determine what it believes to be god's will for marriage within that church, and that civil authorities have no right to tell churches who they can or cannot marry.
by the same token, civil marriage amounts to nothing more than a contract in regard to property rights, etc, and the church has been more than adequately admonished against involving itself with civil authority..... among other places, in the very book and chapter of corinthians from which you have parsed a single verse to justify opposing govermental recognition of marriage between gays.
I don't understand you people. What is wrong with this article? He is stating the truth and that is basically it! Give an example...please!
Look, I never claimed to have a Harvard scholarship, I don't claim to be a Shakespeare.
If and when I ever do write a book or whatever I will most assuredly have to have a team of proofreaders to correct my mistakes.
I just know what I read and understand in the Bible, and it was written by illiterate fisherman as some say.
When preaching it is not "how" the message is brought, but the message itself,
As far as this blog being so far fetched,, that is what you think, it is closer to reality that what you want to believe.
I have a dream that you will stop writing about homosexuality, seems to me that you are a bit obsessed with it. Like I have stated before, come on out of the closet Michael, GOD knows it occupies your every thought!!!
HOW DARE YOU TURN MARTIN LUTHER KING DAY and tomorrow's event's into one of your "Anti-Gay" tirades. It's DISGUSTING to say the least, tomorrow will be a remarkable day in American History and I am so proud to be alive to see it.
"michael bell, your entire blog is a farce. your grammar is terrible, your leaps in logic are ridiculous, and many of the things you say offend the sensibilities of a reasonable readership"
Posted by in the garden on Mon, Jan 19, 2009, at 3:17 PM
LOL in the garden, we have been saying this for a year!!
Live and let live, but get your mind off the homosexuals or join them already!!!! Seriously what have they done to you lately???? Or do I even need to ask lol
Your name suits you well, you are a bit "disturbed".
While I do think the homosexual thing has been discussed to death, in Michaels defense I have heard it in the media several times comparing the homosexual movement of today to the civil rights movement of the 60s.
The Bible was not written by illiterate fisherman.
Both movements have a lot of similarities.
Both movements are very different also.
The first one helped our country, the latter will destroy it.
Everyone has an opinion and each opinion is important.
Even the people of Sodom and Gommorah probably had different opinions of why those big rocks of fire were falling on them.
I would bet that the ones that survived and fled from the homosexuals had the right opinion.
But again that is only an opinion.
All, I found this blog only a short while ago, and enjoyed reading the opinions and beliefs of others; those that I agreed with and those that made me stop, think and delve deeper into the word of God. However, it is apparent that more of you only want to confront and insult. I desire something more positive than that, so I will leave your bickering to yourselves. Just remember this... You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink!
God's blessings to you all; may you find faith in The Only Way - John 3:16!
Oh yes.
First,we let people marry other races.
Then,we let them marry the same sex.
Next,they'll wed children and livestock or plants or inanimate objects.
("I want to marry my game avatar.")
Some would say we should be grateful folks want to love and make life-long committments at all.
But,maybe,God should have let Adam and Eve remain "just good friends" and spare us all this hoo-rah.
Then,we wouldn't have had the sort of ludicrous mayhem that the Reverend Martin Luther King had to oppose and that remains with us,in so many forms, today.
Seriously,we don't need the government dictating the most personal,moral aspects of our lives nor do we need to subject a whole population to the diverse whims of every fringe element on the planet.
We need to respect one another and concentrate on values that affirm life and encourage responsibility instead of becoming self-indulgent or fearful and repressive.
In Jewish traditions, all boys of a certain age would be enrolled in the Torah studies, then through a testing period, only the best would stay.
The ones that did not make it went back to their family business.
The remark of the illiterate fishermen was not my comment, but the opinion of most non believers.
The ones that were the apostles were the leftovers of the synagogues, the "second class" citizens you might say.
They knew they needed a Messiah to save them , the same as I do, The elite, thought they could do it on their own.
Paul was one of the first elite to humble himself to the saving grace of Jesus Christ.
bkpow,
You have been one of our rare and refreshing sources of gentle,thoughtful consideration.
I'm glad we've had your input.
I wish our shortcomings hadn't chased you away.
Even a horse that knows he's soiled and thirsty might avoid Living Water if all he hears is serpents hissing every time he goes near the stream.
lazarus,
Below are 2 references out of the Gospels that deal with marriage and what our Maker had in mind.
---------------------
Mathew 19
4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
-------------------------
Mark 10
6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
9What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
I think it is clear what the Bible thinks of this marriage that God instituted. I think the real issue is whether anyone believes in the Bible as the Inspired Word of God.
God is not the author of confusion.
Bkpow I wish you would not leave, you have been a ray of sunshine here, and maybe you could make us shine a tad bit brighter than we have been.
there are a lot of theories about who wrote the individual books of the new testament, and limited personal history on those individuals.
however, by definition, illiterates can not write.
what little we do know:
john WAS actually a fisherman. at least one of the johns. there are persuasive arguments that there are three different john's, and no agreement on who wrote what.
no one can agree on who jude and james are.
matthew was a tax collector & probably the most educated
mark was the son of wealthy farmers (in exile), however there is solid evidence that not only did mark not write any of the new testament, but the book of mark was written by someone who had never even been to the holy land...that is, there are serious geographical errors in the book of mark.
luke was a physician
barnabas was a wealthy expatriot from cyprus
and paul, who wrote the most of the new testament that can be positively attributed to an author, was educated in rabbinical school.
so, whoever told you the bible was written by illiterate fishermen is a poor source of information.
i am still waiting for you to elucidate the verses you parsed out, and explain, within context, how they amount to a biblical objection to gay marriage.
parker,
interesting verses, lacking the defining word "ONE".
if god meant for marriage to be ONE man and ONE woman, why then (in samuel 1,12) does GOD say in the course of castigating david for killing a man in order to acquire his wife (god speaking through a prophet, of course) that he had given david wiveS, and further add that, if those were not enough, he would have given david MORE?
If God would have approved same-sex marriage, don't you think it would be in there?
I agree, the apostles were very literate, it is the evolutionist who and the non- believers who say that , not me!
This gay issue is what gets the most feedback , because it is a touchy subject with so many.
You will not come off of your stance, nor will I, that is obvious.
If protest start in the streets, I am sure we will meet on opposite sides of the rallies.
I am going to focus more on world events and how the bible portrays those events, and the ongoings of Crossroads.
We can agree to disagree, and be sociable for as long as we can.
When it comes to a head, well we will cross that bridge when we get to it.
bkpow,
Nobody said it would be easy.
I hope you don't just go back to being comfortable helping hold the pews to the floor.
You should know there will be hecklers anytime the gospel is mentioned. Even Christ had to listen at the hecklers say..... "crucify him".
Mark 15
13And they cried out again, Crucify him.
14Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.
15And so Pilate, willing to content the people, released Barabbas unto them, and delivered Jesus, when he had scourged him, to be crucified.
It is easy to take the pleasant way out and sit in Church and sing some pretty songs and listen to memorized prayers.
However, I think the commandment was to take the gospel to the entire world. Not just to the pleasant people who hold the pews down inside a building that is warm and toasty. There are some unpleasant things in this world to deal with. We were warned in advance. The only way to avoid it is to sit quitely. Unfortunately that was not the commandment.
I also know you better than being a quitter.
Lazarus,
Perhaps you can see the intent of God in these other verses about marriage.
Ephesians 5
31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
I hope you realize that all marriage in the Bible is only referred to as between a man and a woman.
Sodom and Gommorah had nothing to do with homosexuality. You know that, God knows that, Michael knows that, everyone knows that now. Romans had NOTHING to do with homosexuality, God knows that, Paul knows that, You know that, and Michael knows that. You two just refused to believe that. There is a difference what is known and what you believe. The important thing is whether or not the difference with coincide.
parker,
interesting verses, lacking the defining word "ONE".
if god meant for marriage to be ONE man and ONE woman, why then (in samuel 1,12) does GOD say in the course of castigating david for killing a man in order to acquire his wife (god speaking through a prophet, of course) that he had given david wiveS, and further add that, if those were not enough, he would have given david MORE?
-- Posted by lazarus on Mon, Jan 19, 2009, at 5:51 PM
lazarus,
The issue of more than one wife in the Old Testament is another issue.
With that in mind, I hope you can see that God did not say He would give David husbands and more husbands? It was wives and more wives wasn't it?
Why do you push the man/man and/or woman/woman marriage so much? What do you or any of the participants stand to gain?
I don't know that, don't insinuate that I do!
The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When a person continues in sin and disbelief, the Bible tells us that God "gives them over" to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual "offenders" will not inherit the kingdom of God.
God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that a person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger / rage, does that make it right for then to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true for homosexuality.
However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a "greater" sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, God's forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17)
The oldest manuscripts states that the sin of Sodom was homosexuality, and I believe it!
"God is not the author of confusion."
God didn't author the Bible, Man did.
"I just know what I read and understand in the Bible, and it was written by illiterate fisherman as some say."
Really, and who says that? According to pbros, God wrote, yet now you say illiterate fisherman wrote it? Wow and who is confused?
parkerbrothers, you are correct! :) and I also know my responsibity ( or shall I say freedom ) in serving Christ and taking His message to the nations. That however, does not mean that I should have to adhere to the belitting comments made on behalf of someone's writing ability or whether he or she is a Harvard graduate or not. And yes, I know that Christians will always be persecuted and the message will always be questioned and ridiculed by those who do not believe in it's saving power. But, I also (at the risk of even more protests of ridicule) saw the movie "The Passion" and the horror and pain our Saviour felt at the hand of those who were ridiculing Him. I wouldn't wish that on anyone - friend or foe. In a perfect world, we could "discuss" our beliefs and faith without having to attack the person - wish it were so here. I believe our Father would much rather us show the example of Jesus' forgiving love than the peoples' shouts of "Crucify Him"!
Now... can we all try to behave?:)
I did not say the fishermen were illiterate, followers of Jesus wrote it, with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
please Bkpow, don't leave, join me in being " a voice crying in the wilderness"
Evil Monkey,
You are entitled to your opinion.
I strongly believe that marriage is only acceptable in the eyes of God when it is between a man and a woman only. I would just hate to see someone read what you are proclaiming and that be the straw that finally provided the rationalization that some tempted person needed to fall into the sin...."evilmonkey said it was alright".
I think sometimes there is a big misunderstanding about the subject being discussed. I would have no problem with someone that said...."I know the Bible says it is wrong but I have made up my mind that it is the lifestyle I am going to live. It is my choice." There is no argument about that. It is absolutely their choice and I can respect that.
The problem to me comes in when someone says..."It is not a sin to be homosexual. The Bible says it is okay to be this way." That is only thing I will refute or argue if that is what you want to call it.
The choice someone makes is nobody but theirs. Absolutely no one but theirs.
However, God has the same right to His choices and they are what they are. Do not be deceived.
bkpow,
I agree that there should not be the belittling that goes on. I never would have even started posting on here if not for the compassion I felt about Christ and His gospel being belittled and ridiculed by hecklers on its presentation through Michael.
When the heart is involved, the keyboard may suffer some. We all get a little excited when we are passionate about something and get to going a little faster than we can type. I have never had any trouble understanding what Michael was saying. I do not think the hecklers do either. I actually think that is why they heckle. They understand the Word quite well and it cuts at them. The conviction of the Holy Spirit through the Word is a cutting force.
Thank you Marvin, if you still want to go see that place, let me know.
please Bkpow, don't leave, join me in being " a voice crying in the wilderness"
-- Posted by michaelbell on Mon, Jan 19, 2009, at 6:41 PM
Bkpow,
I agree. Don't leave. Some precious soul may indeed hear your voice crying in the wilderness. How much greater of a work could be done than letting the light of Christ radiate through you. There is not a soul out there that does not deserve to be given the Good News. I only wish people could see the joy that Christ radiates through you in person. The Christ given joy you possess does radiate out from the keyboard but nothing like it does when someone is in your presence. You are indeed a Work of His.
Keep radiating. Some of the light you give off may reach a precious soul somewhere, somehow, someday. A precious soul is a terrible thing to waste.
michaelbell,
Let's go visit it tommorrow. I would like to go early in the morning if possible but can make anytime work.
How early do you want to go?
and I also know my responsibity ( or shall I say freedom ) in serving Christ and taking His message to the nations.
Posted by bkpow on Mon, Jan 19, 2009, at 6:36 PM
bkpow,
Yes, it is a freedom.
Thank God Almighty, I'm free at last.
I was hoping around 7:00?
I will be at your place about a quarter till 7
Great.
"If God would have approved same-sex marriage, don't you think it would be in there?"
almost none of the issues we deal with today are specifically addressed in the bible. it was written, within the limitations of what people knew at the time, about the issues of that day. thus the importance of being familiar with the historical context. i think the whole idea is to use our understanding of the scripture in order to understand how to apply it to today's issues.
"I agree, the apostles were very literate, it is the evolutionist who and the non- believers who say that , not me!"
1st, i do not believe that is the context in which you first used it, second i have never heard that little quip, except from religious people. in your first response you admitted that the writers were at least literate, but described them as: "The ones that were the apostles were the leftovers of the synagogues, the "second class" citizens you might say." now they are "very literate".
"This gay issue is what gets the most feedback , because it is a touchy subject with so many."
i will agree with you here.
"You will not come off of your stance, nor will I, that is obvious."
the only stance i have taken, so far is that the government should not impose religious law. i have questioned your application of some scripture, and pressed you when you present things that are factually innaccurate.
"If protest start in the streets, I am sure we will meet on opposite sides of the rallies."
why? i have no personal interest in gay issues.
"I am going to focus more on world events and how the bible portrays those events, and the ongoings of Crossroads."
will you make an attempt to become better informed on facts, or will you continue to repeat the ravings of fruitcake web-sites?
"We can agree to disagree, and be sociable for as long as we can."
i dont have any personal issues with you.
"When it comes to a head, well we will cross that bridge when we get to it."
again, i have no issues with you. altho the discussion would be more fun if you had more facts to work with. but perhaps god has pushed me to respond to things i would usually ignore in order to impel you to broaden your knowledge base.
Your name suits you well, you are a bit "disturbed".
-- Posted by michaelbell on Mon, Jan 19, 2009, at 3:42 PM
That is usually the lame comeback from someone who simply doesn't have anything of value to respond with. Thank GOD for Martin Luther King Jr. and thank GOD for Obama. As one door closes, another one opens... Goodbye DUB-YA.
Somehow,I don't think the Bible intended us to infer that no man can serve two masters but he can have as many mistresses as his wallet will allow.
(I don't care HOW many denominations or congregations Christ looks after.
They are all facets of ONE helpmeet-not parts of his harem!)
I have less of a problem with whether or not God allows same sex pairings than I do the sense that we expect God to conform to US -whether we are taking a liberal or conservative stance on something.
We need to remember that some people of noble intent thought that the colonies needed to stay with the old country.
Some thought slavery was fine,witches needed to be burned and people of different races,creeds and physical health needed to be eradicated.
They insisted they were following God's wishes.
We're apt to be as fallible as our predecessors.
When we pray,do we ask "Who's right,Lord? Him or me?"
Or do we say to Him,"Make my way THY way that I might do Thy will and exercise Christ's righteousness in my life "?
Michael,
It is highly unlikely that the apostles wrote the majority of the books that were attributed to them.
It is well known that certain authors attributed their works to those whose influence they had fallen under.
The supporters of evolution don't give a rats hind end whether the apostles were literate.
And Michael, one last thing... Why do you not find it in your heart to pray for Obama that he may make noble decisions rather than leaping to foregone pathetic conclusions, as though you have some inkling of knowledge beyond a biblical perspective?
What happened to praying for everyone? Including your enemies? Oh I suppose, you skipped over those scriptures (intentionally) while trying to find those that better suit your anti-gay agenda. Laughable, because while you still argue with people who actually make intelligent comments without copy and pasting from websites, you have yet to better humanity. Again, if all Jesus ever did was condemn the world and those who were 'different' then what good would he have been? You and PB need to exchange phone numbers and email addresses, nobody cares what the two of you homosexual obsessed adults do in your personal time.
"The issue of more than one wife in the Old Testament is another issue."
"The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin ... Leviticus 18:22..."
so parkerbrothers, are you saying you do not believe in ALL of the old testament? or do you believe in polygamy?
and michaelbell, you have referenced leviticus again. you never answered before why you do not follow all six hundred some odd levitican laws, if the one you chose is immutable.
do you use the bible on a cafeteria plan, where you pick and choose the parts you like?
I have and will continue to pray for Obama and my enemies[ including you] The answers I give are from the Bible and other study guides I have.
I have tons of notes and questions and answers from people and different Pastors and churches I study with.
Nobody has a copyright on the Word of God .
As far as the last remark, me and Marvin have become friends and intend to make a change in this community.
To give hope to those who have no hope, to spread the Word of God and stand up and defend the Bible for what it is, THE WORD OF GOD!
so parkerbrothers, are you saying you do not believe in ALL of the old testament? or do you believe in polygamy?
and michaelbell, you have referenced leviticus again. you never answered before why you do not follow all six hundred some odd levitican laws, if the one you chose is immutable.
do you use the bible on a cafeteria plan, where you pick and choose the parts you like?
-- Posted by lazarus on Mon, Jan 19, 2009, at 8:04
Of course not... It isn't as easy to make the other 600 Levitican laws fit their agenda.. Because they'd be guilty of breaking 99% of them...
For one, I am not Jewish two most of those laws are for high priest and has to do with the sacrificial system.
Jesus became the sacrifice once and for all.
There are 613 to be exact.
The New Testament made one woman and one man the only acceptable form of marriage.
Listen, we are all guilty of sin, I am not saying I am perfect, just forgiven.
Would you not be upset if they made underage marriages legal?
Or stealing, or murder or adults marrying children?
The laws are used to teach and show us how vile we are as human beings, and how much we need a Saviour.
Mchael,
If you want to be an uplifting preacher man and make such a difference in our community, don't you think your snide comments make you lose all credability. I would think you should pause for a moment and look at how you respond. a true preacher does not feel as if he has to one up someone.
Of course, but you can't dismiss the laws you don't want to follow and then expect others to.
Well well well. Seems that some people have hit a nerve on Mr Bell on here. I think that this is a very good discussion on the facts of our world around us today. All Mr Bell can get off about is how much he studies and knows about the Bible. Why do you need to study other materials besides it? As for the parkerbros, they have enough sin between themselves to keep Mr Bell busy. Amazing how one finds religion when they are faced with some difficult times coming. I agree with jesuslives about the snide comments Mr Bell makes in his replies to others. Carefull Mr Bell. One should not throw stones in a glass house.
I am only showing my humanity, several"men of God" put themselves on a pedestal saying they are above reproach, I am not.
When put in certain situations the old me comes out.
You attack and I will fight back, I will defend my families honor.
I will be like Robert Duvall in his movie The Apostle, I will defend my God's church.
Getting saved and forgiven is one thing, reaching the "perfect" state is a lifetime trip and it is never reached until we are by his side.
The 'old' me. Hmmmm. Any other revelations you want to make tonight?
Before that comment is jumped on, I am beyond reproach in some things.
Like cheating on my wife and stealing and things like that.
I still loose my temper every now and then.
I used to have a bad temper and would loose my cool over any little thing, I control it better now, thanks to the Holy Spirit.
I am not prone to "turning the other cheek" as some are.
I know where michael is coming from and why. I have to agree with him about homosexuality being biblically,spiritually, and morally wrong. What I don't understand is why anyone would want to support such behaviour. Is it just to make michael mad or....I guess I just can't see supporting immorallity and you have to know its wrong even if you deny its in the bible.
Funny, I been with my wife for 15 years. Never felt the need to cheat. Love is unconditional. You said God has forgiven your sins, but it never says that in the Bible. It says if you ask for your sins to be forgiven. Meaning GO to the person you sinned against and ask forgiveness. So how does homosexuality be classified as a sin if two people are condoning it between each other? They didn't sin against each other.
You lied and deceived me regarding your "ordination" papers. Parkerbrothers, man, I don't even need to say what you have done wrong. It is all over the papers on a bi-weekly basis.
I don't have a bad temper, I don't steal, I don't lie, cheat, or covet my neighbors wife. Yet here you are telling me I am wrong? It seems I lived the life of a saint!
greasemonkey,
I can give you two reasons why.
1) Interpretation of the Bible. Each person reads it and finds a different meaning.
2) What does someone else's orientation do to you? How does it affect your quality of life?
Those are my caveats regarding that particular thing.
I , personally, am not condoning anyones morrality. Nor am i judging it,. I have enough to work on in my own life and pray for. I just think you need to work on yourself before sitting back and telling others how condemned they are for a sin someone else commits.
Mr. Bell,
Let me say , I am not trying to antagonize you. But out of curiosity.... You say you study all other religions and study with other pastors. I was wondering are you not putting bits and pieces of what you like from each because some of it suits you that way? I am not referring to the homosexuality issues either. Each denomination believes different from another. How can you only pick and choose what you like to believe from each?
Is it just to make michael mad or....I guess I just can't see supporting immorallity and you have to know its wrong even if you deny its in the bible.
-- Posted by greasemonkey on Mon, Jan 19, 2009, at 10:11 PM
The problem is, it isn't in the 'Bible' the way you think it is.. and a snake talked, a stick turned into a serpant, bushes talked, a tree made someone evil and God rewarded King's with thousands of concubines.. all things we don't believe in today, but none of which you question. If it's all in the Bible, why don't we obey them all?? I see PLENTY of children disrespecting their parents, but I never see the parents stone them to death.. as commanded by the same book that supposedly tells you 'homosexuality' is wrong.
But anyways... Long live the efforts fought for by Martin Luther King Jr.
No sense in Michael carrying on yet another blog about his fetish.
Em,
I agree totally that some people get different things from the bible.
It does not affect me, to me its kind of on the same level as adultery.its still wrong people are still gonna do it and if you threw the bible out the window its still not right. I also don't think it deserves the attention it gets though.
I don't have a bad temper, I don't steal, I don't lie, cheat, or covet my neighbors wife. Yet here you are telling me I am wrong? It seems I lived the life of a saint!
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Mon, Jan 19, 2009, at 10:22 PM
Evil Monkey,
You sound like the Pharisees. They didn't need a Saviour either. Neither did they find one. He was standing right in front of them and they never saw Him. What a shame.
I hate to see you think you do not need one. What a tragedy.
He stands before you now revealed in the Living Word and you think it is a fairy tale. What a shame and a tragedy.
Irregaurdless, I still pray for the evilmonkey daily. You have a precious soul that is valuable.
Adultery was highly condoned in the Bible.. Just read about King Solomon. Or King David. But to even put that on the same chopping block as homosexuality is wrong.. Two people who faithfully love one another makes entirely more sense than two people PRETENDING to be in love, while sleeping with other people... There is no comparison.
Darrick_04,
I believe the bible is accurate,and all of those stories, I hate to tell you, I believe to be fact. My point is if I had never read the bible I would still know homosexuality was wrong. We are in agreement that it gets way to much coverage on here though.
darrick_04,
No matter how much you do want it to not be it is what it is. Homosexuality is one of the many sins clearly identified in the Bible. The same Bible that reveals Christ as Saviour reveals homosexuality as sin. By no means is it the only sin but it is sin. It is a sin that can be forgiven but it can never be forgiven if it is not a sin.
Christ came to save the sinner. A man must realize he is a sinner before he can be saved.
parkerbrothers,
Have you seen me sin? Is my antics printed in the T-G? How can you call me a pharisee as You and Michael are claiming to be the teachers. Not I. You put words in others mouths as you were a Pharisee. I take what Michael says and I ask him, I do not assume. He is a Hypocrite just as you are. Didn't David and Jonathan have relations with one another? It says they kissed and loved one another. It states right there they were lovers, homosexuals.
To hint that David and Jonathan were gay and lovers because of a kiss and a embrace is absurd.
When I left for the Air Force me and my friends embraced cried and kissed each other on the cheek, and we we were far from gay.
Judas kissed Christ, are you insinuating ?
You accuse me of reading and taking out what I want to, if that what you believe fine, but it seems to me as you read and do the same to prove yourself to.
The word lovers in the Hebrew is "ahab" which means to have feelings for sexually OR otherwise, like a friend.
I have 3 best friends in the whole world ,1 female and 2 males and I love them all the same and tell them I do.
Nothing sexual about it!
"The New Testament made one woman and one man the only acceptable form of marriage."
and so we find ourselves back at the beginning:
take two verses, strip them out of context, stretch their meaning, and you have a basis for life. makes one wonder why they bothered to write that whole clunky book, when everything that matters could be scribbled on the back of a business card.
i will take my leave here. if you need to continue the "discussion" you can go back thru the same series of posts and not answer them again.
It looks as is everyone is pointing fingers at each other. All of this commotion over a little blog.
Have you seen me sin?
Posted by Evil Monkey on Tue, Jan 20, 2009, at 4:23 AM
Evil Monkey,
No and according to you there is no sin in your life.
You do not need a Saviour. The Pharisees did not think they needed a Saviour.
I am just glad I have one and I do wish you seen the need for one in your life.
It looks as is everyone is pointing fingers at each other. All of this commotion over a little blog.
-- Posted by honda14 on Tue, Jan 20, 2009, at 8:58 AM
honda14,
This commotion is actually over Christ if you really think about it. Anytime belief meets unbelief there will be commotion.
Your name suits you well, you are a bit "disturbed".
-- Posted by michaelbell on Mon, Jan 19, 2009, at 3:42 PM
DISTURBED more than suits you, you are the one disturbingly obsessed with a group of people that are of no threat to you, your lifestyle or your marriage. You turn EVERYTHING, including the inauguration of our new president and a national day of mourning of a great man into an anti-gay rant. And BTW, it's Disturbia NOT disturbed, can't type correctly and now it seems that you can't read all that great either. NOW I am going to watch the swearing in of a great man :)
makes one wonder why they bothered to write that whole clunky book
Posted by lazarus on Tue, Jan 20, 2009, at 7:48 AM
lazarus,
Life itself lives in that "whole clunky book".
Before a man can be called "GREAT"
He has done nothing yet to be called great.
He will take us to the year of 2012 we will see how great he is then.
What has he done to make him great?
Well he was a community organizer and he, uh...um...well uh..and he's...um..uh. He's just great. ROFL
Even Jesus had to do miracles before he was called great.
god tells us not to be judgemental of others. what is 2012 the same thing that happened with the millenium when nothing happens. no one person can predict the end of times. you will have a sad church when you start with all the negativity you generate. i feel you have a message to tell you need to find a better way to get it across.
"Would you not be upset if they made underage marriages legal?
Or stealing, or murder or adults marrying children?"
I just don't understand you. How on earth can you compare gay marriage to murder or pedophilia?
That's insane.
Since this blog was "supposed" to be about Reverend King, I'm going to leave you with this quote from his famous speech, Mr. Bell. I suggest you take it to heart, as it applies to people of all races.
"But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred."
~Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.
Michael,
It is CLEAR there was a gay relationship of David and Jonathan.
1 Samuel 18:1,3
"And it came to pass, when he [David] had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul . . . And Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul."
And immediately afterward, Jonathan disrobed before David:
1 Samuel 18:4
"Jonathan divested himself of the mantle he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his military dress, and his sword, his bow and his belt.
Jonathan was disrobing and turning the symbols of his manhood over to David. Since people in those days did not wear underwear, Jonathan stripped himself naked in front of David. This draws a clear picture. They are doing this properly. They meet, and there is a strong physical attraction. They fall in love. They declare their love and enter a covenant before God because of that love (a marriage equivalent). THEN they enter the physical relationship.
A powerful reference to the physical part of their relationship appears even before David and Jonathan meet.
1 Samuel 14:43
Saul said to Jonathan, "Tell me what you have done." Jonathan replied, "I only tasted a little honey from the end of the staff I was holding. Am I to die for this?"
This is symbolic -- a foreshadowing of what Jonathan would be doing later in the relationship. The Bible does not have concidences such as this by chance. People seem to want a visual of the sex act before they believe it. Here it is.
Whatever? Awesome prayer by Rick Warren.
Only a sick individual would see that in holy scripture.
Some of us may not need a Saviour.
Others may not need chocolate or literacy or other neat stuff-but they do make life a lot more fun.
Once saved,one doesn't have to worry about sins of comission or omission.
One's live doesn't revolve around earning worth.
(We aren't saved because we're perfect but perfected because we're saved.)
We can be who we are,love others who are also works in progress and rely more on God's strength and virtue than our own.
We go past our limitations to His limitlessness.
One CAN do without a Saviour but why forego having a best Friend?
A bond with the Lord isn't just a means of avoiding Hell.
It's probably the one thing it'd be worth enduring Hell for.
The neat part is that His love is free for the asking.
We can even keep our old ways while we grow into our new life.
But,He makes everything richer and fresher so that staying in our old flesh seems as appealing as rejecting being a grown-up on holiday with adult skills,resources and options in favor of a comfort zone that leaves us swaddled and confined to our nursery.
Even if our bodies should ever falter or our minds deteriorate,G
Some of us may not need a Saviour.
Others may not need chocolate or literacy or other neat stuff-but they do make life a lot more fun.
Once saved,one doesn't have to worry about sins of comission or omission.
One's live doesn't revolve around earning worth.
(We aren't saved because we're perfect but perfected because we're saved.)
We can be who we are,love others who are also works in progress and rely more on God's strength and virtue than our own.
We go past our limitations to His limitlessness.
One CAN do without a Saviour but why forego having a best Friend?
A bond with the Lord isn't just a means of avoiding Hell.
It's probably the one thing it'd be worth enduring Hell for.
The neat part is that His love is free for the asking.
We can even keep our old ways while we grow into our new life.
But,He makes everything richer and fresher so that staying in our old flesh seems as appealing as rejecting being a grown-up on holiday with adult skills,resources and options in favor of a comfort zone that leaves us swaddled and confined to our nursery.
Even if our bodies should ever falter or our minds deteriorate,God gives us a freedom and wholeness that enables us to take-and give- from all that is His.
True,having a Saviour is optional-but what an option!
Oops. Please remove the redundant post.
A feline co-author thought there was so much lag we needed to hit the save button twice.
Whatever?
Posted by michaelbell on Tue, Jan 20, 2009, at 10:58 AM
The same response I get from my teen when she has no logical argument and the facts are presented neatly before her. There are plenty of homosexual acts in the bible, try reading it every now and then.
In taking a second look, maybe this subject was the wrong timing, if it offended I am sorry.
The subject of gay marriage is not a civil rights issue and do not want to see it spoken of in the same sense as the work that King started and what comes to the pinnacle today.
MLK is compared to Moses and Obama has been compared to Joshua for seeing the promised land.
Then they left God and were scattered throughout.
Seeing the promised land is one thing, staying in it is another.
He did thank God and the benediction was awesome.
His first 100 days has started, let see if he will be great or not.
God Bless Pres. OBAMA And God Bless the USA
Again if my blog was taken in a bad sense, I am sorry.
There might be so called homosexual acts, but God still abhors it.
Samuel 1:
David and Jonathan "kissed one another, and wept with one another" when they parted for the last time. 20:41
David says to Jonathan: "very pleasant has thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of woman." 1:26
Saul is angered by his son's homosexual affair with David and says, "do not I know that thou has chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion of thy mother's nakedness?"
I just believe, if the bible says it is wrong, it is wrong, case closed.
-- Posted by michaelbell on Mon, Jan 19, 2009, at 12:21 PM
Eat Pork much? How about those glasses? you know you can't approach the altar without perfect vision. Hmmm..had shrimp any time in your life? I mean we can do this all day with what the bible says is wrong.
I had pork yesterday, I like shrimp, I have worn glasses since I was 5 years old and if you must know I have damaged stones also[vasectomy]
I know what the qualifications of a high priest are, the laws were given to prove how flawed man is.
Even if I was not a bible believer, nature itself would show me that homosexuality was unnatural.
Anything else, I am not making excuses or trying to prove the bible wrong to cover my sins.
Jesus did that, those laws are for the nation of Israel in the physical sense and I commend them for doing their best to keep them
Though they still have the Day of Atonement to seek forgiveness.
Last time I checked my birth certificate I was not Jewish.
I do not seek reasons to condone my sins, I sought Jesus to forgive them and his blood to wash them away.
If the law of the Old Testament were still
enforced , then the penalties would be also.
You know, stoning, flogging, being put to death.
Christ fulfilled the law for no one else could.
The law is still used to be a schoolmaster to show our need for a Saviour.
Without it would you know from birth that stealing, murder, adultery, and all other things listed in the bible was wrong?
I think not, your conscience is formed by what you are taught and learn as a child.
Some still don't have a conscience.
All the knowledge is fine, but the wisdom to use that knowledge is grand.
"Even if I was not a bible believer, nature itself would show me that homosexuality was unnatural."
mangle the bible to your heart's content, but homosexual behavior in nature is ubiquitous and well-documented.
do you have a factual basis for anything?
you will have a sad church when you start with all the negativity you generate.
Posted by adder on Tue, Jan 20, 2009, at 10:28 AM
adder,
The end of time as we know it is not negative to a Christian. It is probably the most positive good news I know. I believe Michael sees it the same way.
I guess if someone loves this world enough they could perceive the coming of Christ as negative.
Don't get me wrong. I like it here but I do see the better coming as a most positive thing.
You seem to want to take positive news and call it bad news.
Could it be that good news to the saved is bad news to the unsaved? I have no idea why the same news is perceived two drastically different ways. Why do you think it is viewed two totally different ways?
come and join us , we can all learn something.
mangle the bible to your heart's content, but homosexual behavior in nature is ubiquitous and well-documented.
Posted by lazarus on Tue, Jan 20, 2009, at 12:41 PM
lazarus,
Stealing, Adultery, Gluttony, etc., etc., etc., etc., is ubiquitous and well documented.
Is there supposed to be some merit to this fact?
Is there a number of times something has to occur that will change it from a wrong to a right?
Can wrong yesterday become right today in God's eyes?
michael never gets off the end of times. he never preaches of faith, hope, salvation he is always stuck on one subject and as you see by the blogs parker brothers he just likes stirring a stink for the wrong reasons the remark about his damanged stones was a little inappropriate for a preacher to say.
parkerbrother,
i wasnt drawing any conclusions, merely correcting michaelbell's statement that he knew homosexuality was wrong because it didnt occur in nature.
I have heard it taught in the pulpit, the point was sarcastic, I will admit it.
The fact behind it, a High Priest had to be able to produce sons in the flesh to carry on the Priesthood in the lineage of Aaron to fulfill God's laws.
In today's terms, since we are not at war with flesh and bone, but against principalities, a pastor, preacher or whatever title he goes by must be able to "reproduce" after himself in the Spirit, not the flesh.
You know, baptized, changed people, if he does not reproduce then the church dies and withers away.
Why would it be inappropriate to discuss that in church, I am all for churches teaching on sex from a biblical perspective.
The reason I stay on end times is because they are upon us, I do teach on salvation, hope, those that know me personally know I do.
Some people can't see the forest for the trees if you know what I mean.
People need to know what is fast approaching to avoid it, and if not what to do, and how to prepare to go through it.
Come to Crossroads , and you will get all the salvation and hope messages you can handle.
adder,
I have heard him give the good news quite often.
Why is it you do not hear it and I do?
I actually think the end times are nothing more than the highlight of faith, hope and salvation.
Why do you view the end times as negative?
Do you not look forward to the return of Christ?
I hope it is a joyful expectation for you.
parkerbrother,
i wasnt drawing any conclusions, merely correcting michaelbell's statement that he knew homosexuality was wrong because it didnt occur in nature.
-- Posted by lazarus on Tue, Jan 20, 2009, at 1:52 PM
lazarus,
I did not understand Michael to say it did not occur in nature.
I thought he said that even if he did not believe the Bible that nature would show it is unnatural.
I know of very few people who do not think homosexuality is unnatural. It is not the norm. It is still an oddity.
I hope everyone that is drawn to it realizes there is a Great Physician to help them overcome the unnatural.
He can also help each and every one of us overcome anything we need help with. We must realize we are sick however before he can heal us. How could we ever know we were healed if we never thought we were sick?
Christ came to save the sinners. You must realize you are a sinner before you can be saved. If you are self righteous in your mind, Christ is of no benifit to you. He did not come to save the righteous.
Saul said to Jonathan, "Tell me what you have done." Jonathan replied, "I only tasted a little honey from the end of the staff I was holding. Am I to die for this?"
This is symbolic -- a foreshadowing of what Jonathan would be doing later in the relationship. The Bible does not have concidences such as this by chance. People seem to want a visual of the sex act before they believe it. Here it is.
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Tue, Jan 20, 2009, at 10:52 AM
Surely you jest, am I to laugh for this?
Mr Bell, are you an ordained minister? Have you had any sort of formal theological training? Do you baptize people?
No college to speak of, ordained through 2 non- denominational churches. I have not baptized any yet, but the bible to my understanding, states that a teacher of God's word will be inspired in what he teaches, which I am, and I believe that any Christian can baptize any fellow believer.
I choose not to go to any denominational seminary because you are taught their doctrine from their point of view.
I want the point of view that God gives me.
Besides I have access to the same studies as any of them do.
What do you think makes "ORDAINED MINISTER"?
devan,
Yeah I guess everyone tasted honey from the staff, literally. Because use of a spoon is sinful.
Saul said to Jonathan, "Tell me what you have done." Jonathan replied, "I only tasted a little honey from the end of the staff I was holding. Am I to die for this?"
This is symbolic -- a foreshadowing of what Jonathan would be doing later in the relationship. The Bible does not have concidences such as this by chance. People seem to want a visual of the sex act before they believe it. Here it is.
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Tue, Jan 20, 2009, at 10:52 AM
Surely you jest, am I to laugh for this?
-- Posted by devan on Tue, Jan 20, 2009, at 2:59 PM
A prayer for him might be more in order.
Mr. Bell, you are a delusional whack job, out hoping to prey on others to follow you to what ever end you lead them too. I pity you.
Don't pity me for I am saved and have no doubts of my eternal home. And I don't prey for others, I pray for all.
Does not the Bible also teach of false prophets? Or did you skip that part.
Mr. Bell, you are a delusional whack job, out hoping to prey on others to follow you to what ever end you lead them too. I pity you.
-- Posted by Chef Boy R.D. on Tue, Jan 20, 2009, at 4:52 PM
Chef Boy R.D.,
Your comment reminded me of what Festus said to Paul.
Acts 26
24And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad.
amen chef boy rd. with the millenium, preachers were saying it was the end of times many people actually believed it. this is how i feel about michael bell. i go to church, parker brothers and i am not scared about the end of times it will be a great day when i get to heaven. but people react in different ways to preaching like michaels. he should not be prophetizing something he don't actually know when it is going to happen and by the blogs he writes he only causes more controversy.
Chef Boy R.D.,
I should have included the verses right before verse 24 so you would see what Paul was talking about.
Acts 26
20But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
21For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.
22Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.
24And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad.
i go to church, parker brothers and i am not scared about the end of times it will be a great day when i get to heaven. but people react in different ways to preaching like michaels.
Posted by adder on Tue, Jan 20, 2009, at 5:45 PM
Yes, people will react different ways. Some will respond when presented with nothing but compassion. Others will not. Some have to be presented with the harsh realities that exist of the consequences of sin.
22And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
I'd been reading about the symbolism of the lion's carcass in Judges.
I'd thought the beehive was a prediction that Samson would suppress the Philistines even as David slew a lion before he confronted Goliath.
Three flawed men (Samson,Saul and David) were used of God to defeat a powerful enemy despite extreme odds against them.
This,in turn,was reflected in Christ's dining on a honeycomb in the Upper Room after the resurrection.
So,here I was seeing honey as a sign of victory secured by God's influence and the rod as a symbol of holy discipline,guidance and support ("Thy rod and thy staff,they comfort me.")
A rod dripping with honey would be a friend,mentor ,guardian and leader who would guide and protect and give us srength as Christ does with His grace.
A friend of God would enjoy the sweetness in God's control even as a child might enjoy licking the honey from the letters of the Torah as he first learns his letters.
So much for the healing,nourishing power of bee fuel...
(Oh,well,it took me a while to catch on about the Song of Solomon,too.
I think I'm going to keep a jug of ice water around when I read the Old Testament from now on.)
I guess the spicy subtexts are one way to make sure the Book gets read.
I am not scared of the end times either, but there are a lot of "Christians" who go to church and all the rest , but do not believe that Jesus is coming back.
That is the group I go after, or they don't believe in the resurrection, therefore their faith is in vain,or believe they can live their life any way they want and not face no judgment.
Christians who set in church and don't pay attention to current events and put 2 and 2 together and see that the time is at hand.
Did I leave anybody out?
"Christians who set in church and don't pay attention to current events and put 2 and 2 together and see that the time is at hand."
Michael, This is a good point but why even compare current events and what God wants from you? When you obsess over what is going on now, doesn't that distract from what you should be doing?
At least the bible and God are being discussed.
I am not trying to win a award for writing skills anyway.
Ever hear of the rule of capitalization?
I'm assuming you meant...
Have you ever heard of....
:)
Or, "Did you ever hear of the rule of capitalization?" The subject can be implied.
Michael,
Have you thought about trying a internet radio show 2 times a week? It is cost effective and affordable and you already have the equipment. Let me know as I am thinking about offering such a product.
The local Inaugural Ball was amazing btw ;)
Concerning the main point of the blog...MLK did have a dream, for men to be judged by there character and NOT by the color of there skin. its a shame his dream still hasn't been fulfilled yet.
And, unfortunately until hate and bigotry die out, and move on from not only skin color but every other difference, we'll never see that dream fulfilled.. Because once we finally leap over one hurdle someone finds it necessary to make life miserable for other innocent people just because they're different.
Oh lord who's life is miserable...
It's whose life, not who's... and certainly not mine. But I am not naive enough to pretend that one form of hate replaced with another, is going to fulfill MLK's dream.
Sorry Mr. Grammar police my computer kind of spells for me sometime. I still don't know who this individual or individuals are that are suffering such hate and prejudice.
michaelbell, I have avoided the past few blog entries, as I know that there is very little ground you will give on the subject of homosexuality. You believe it to be a sin. That is okay and I understand that sentiment. You even wrote in your last blog that it was a sin just like any other. I really appreciated that concession, but my understanding of this current posting gives me the impression once again that your own agenda and opinion of this particular sin carries an added degree of condemnation that is very hard to justify biblically.
If you do not mind, I would like to ask you a few questions. They are pretty much the same question I asked about the Sabbath, but worded a little differently. They are tough questions that many Christians wrestle with, and many believe that Paul did as well. I do not expect a reply, but I would appreciate it if you gave them some thought. There is no single right answer that I am aware of. The Bible could support just about any answer you believe, with at least several verses.
What is sin? It is easy to point to one, but what does it mean? What do you believe is your pathway to heaven? Do you believe that you get to heaven through sanctification (or making yourself Holy through ritual and cultic actions, or the performing or abstaining from certain behaviors), or do you believe that we can only be saved through Salvation (we cannot make ourselves Holy, so we must depend on Christ's sacrifice to sanctify us).
If we are to believe that we are saved through Salvation, then sin becomes almost unimportant. If we are to believe that we are saved through sanctification, then we are neglecting many many cultic and ritual acts that are clearly listed to make us Holy and more like God. If we take the position that after salvation, the correct behavior that gives us sanctification must also be adhered to, then how exactly do we decide which actions of sanctification those "important ones" may be, and why not all of them.
In other words, if Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice for our sins (to sanctify us), however we must continue to sanctify ourselves, do we not in some way, discount the fullness of His sacrifice? If Jesus was not the ultimate sacrifice, then why would we not sanctify ourselves as fully and completely as the Old Testament dictates?
Once again, Romans 1 was quoted in a way that I believe does not represent its true meaning. I know it was not you, but I do not see how anyone can use Romans 1 to justify pointing fingers at sinners. If you get a chance, while you are thinking about my questions, read Romans 1, 2 and 3. If you do, read especially carefully when it keeps going on and on about "born into the law" and exactly what you believe the meaning of those chapters is and how it relates to sin. I believe it is all (even past chapter 3) a continuation of chapter 1.
As far as the clergy being forced to marry homosexuals, I just do not see that happening. There are currently churches who want to be able to marry homosexuals. A church does not have its denomination picked through legislation. A church would still have the ability to determine what members of society are living in a way that represents their morals. A true business (open church rentals to the public included) is another story. If doing business with gays (or blacks) is an issue for someone, they should not open a business. As far as I know, they use the same currency that everyone else does, and trading with someone does not equate to the acceptance of a lifestyle, or even liking someone. It is discrimination, and it is wrong.
There are several parallels that may be drawn from the civil right movement to the homosexual agenda. The main one being, that the justification of the oppression was and is, for the most part, validated through Biblical interpretations. I am sure you know several of the passages I am referring to. There is a Biblical argument for the separation of the races, some would even argue that there are sufficient passages to justify slavery, both legally and morally. How do we approach issues like that?
Sorry Mr. Grammar police my computer kind of spells for me sometime. I still don't know who this individual or individuals are that are suffering such hate and prejudice.
-- Posted by greasemonkey on Tue, Jan 20, 2009, at 11:57 PM
There is the problem... You falsely believe that nobody is experiencing hatred when they are told in the same form and fashion that blacks were, that the BIBLE is why they are inferior... The same reason slave owners felt they had a right to own slaves, because it was condoned in the Bible... the same reason men subject women unto them, because it was condoned in the Bible... The same reason wars are started and lands are destroyed, because it was in the Bible. If all we ever did was do what is in the Bible, then humanity as we know it would cease to exist quicker than we can imagine. The Bible speaks absolutely NOTHING of any of the modern extravagances and technologies we enjoy, it speaks nothing of telling us to condemn our neighbor and it certainly does not give one the authority to dictate to other fellow human beings how they should live their lives. If we all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God, then what do you think objecting to 100% freedom for ALL individuals is going to do for you on Judgment Day? Every act of hate, every act of prejudice and every act of war is rooted in the Bible... so admitting that the aforementioned are wrong, and today's same misconceptions of scripture are justified will never complete MLK's dream. Martin Luther King just so happened to speak directly for a different minority, but his sense of justice and total freedom for all individuals did not limit the reach of its efforts.
I do not believe any one group is experiencing more hatred than any other. There will always be hate in the world, thats just going to happen. Some people will never overcome there bigotry. I do not understand why you choose to blame all the worlds problems on the Bible. There are always people who twist the Bibles perfect message to justify there actions. There is no way to give 100% freedom to ALL individuals. If we could then there would be no crime, because everyone would be free to do as they like. It would be the axe murderers right to hack and slash because he is free. It would be ok for Farmer Brown to marry his sheep, its a 100% free land after all. There has to be some balance to things, surely you have to understand this. I can say for sure that there are very few acts of hate and prejudice that are rooted in the Bible, if read properly and not twisted to fit ones already set views.
People with no REAL argument always go to the depth of defense as you. Comparing murder and bestiality to love is downright pathetic. And that balance you speak of has never faltered in societies that allow gay marriage.
Comparing murder and bestiality to love is downright pathetic.
Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Wed, Jan 21, 2009, at 7:07 PM
Comparing murder and bestiality (and homosexuality) (and adultery) to love is downright pathetic.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Have we not shown a lack of charity to certain immigrants,fat people,people with limited writing skills and others?
It's always easy to attack the person who is different.
The protection of man and God's law seems to be reserved for ourselves and not the person next to us.
Just as we might appreciate even the most flawed scrap of a Shakespeare folio or Michaelangelo statue or Beethoven opus (or outtakes of our favorite deceased entertainers),so should we cherish the one-of-a-kind works of God that surround us.
Would it matter whether or not it's His best work?
Would it matter if it is incomplete?
The identity of the Creator gives it value.
True,some of us learn to revere an artist after we come to admire what he has made.
But,once we have accepted that God knows what He is doing,perhaps we should look at His works from His perspective and assume He wouldn't have brought them into being in the first place if they didn't reflect an aspect of His nature we'd never experience otherwise.
Comparing murder and bestiality to love is downright pathetic.
Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Wed, Jan 21, 2009, at 7:07 PM
Comparing murder and bestiality (and homosexuality) (and adultery) to love is downright pathetic.
-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Wed, Jan 21, 2009, at 7:44 PM
And vehicular assault and so on..
Yes, and so on. Intentional vehicular assault has absolutely no connection with love whatsoever.
See, even you and I can agree on something.
I just wish you understood that bestiality, homosexuality and adultery are almost always an item of lust, not love. There is a big difference.
Constant brainwashing with TV has caused the vast majority of the general public to not be able to distinguish between love and lust.
Actually when you think about it, adultery is about not loving someone?
Comparing murder and bestiality to love is downright pathetic. And that balance you speak of has never faltered in societies that allow gay marriage.
-- Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Wed, Jan 21, 2009, at 7:07 PM
I never mentioned gay marriage, or love. I was merely talking about life in general and how there could never be 100% freedom. That there has to be some morality and laws, and our constitution is as close to perfection as far as freedom goes. I was not trying to bring up homosexuality, and everyone blames Michael for obsessing.
greasemonkey,
90% of Michaels blog contains Homosexuality in some way.
So you are telling me to ease the pain of an animal, putting it asleep is wrong? What if a loved one asked you to do the same thing? They did the same thing to Terry Shiavo a few years ago. Those people loved their dogs and some let love ones die, so I think everything has a certain contextual purpose.
Em,
Yes there is to much time spent talking about homosexuality, and it is really a dead end discussion. There are two sides and both are unwavering. Everyone should just agree to disagree on the issue. I hope Michael is sincere when he says he is moving on and covering other topics, because there is alot we can learn from one another.
As far as the second part of your comment, I think we are in agreement. I dont want to get into it to much, because that could open up a big can of worms by itself I suspect, lol.
Temptation is a good topic. The devil "LOVES" (if I can even use that word in a sentence with the devil) to Tempt us in everything. Maybe Michael can bring us scriptures from the bible about temptations, and use it in examples of Todays youth, and adults, marriage, greed, money, and LUST of everything. After all temptation from the devil was the very first thing he did to man, with a fruit from a tree. "The Tree of Knowlege of Good and Evil". I wonder how we would be if we never knew what good and evil was. Would people still be good and evil but didn't know it? and would it still be called a sin?
Momof3&3step&1gran,
It is a tragedy that we all fail in our individual temptations. Satan wants us to fail just as bad as God wants us to succeed.
I am thankful that God had the foresight to provide a plan of salvation to remedy the consequences of our failures of giving in to temptations.
I wish everyone could see the light of the Good News and come into it to experience the peace, joy, and assurance it brings.
I missed it the first half of my life and regret it but am grateful for the years I have been given in the light.
Temptation is a good topic. The devil "LOVES" (if I can even use that word in a sentence with the devil) to Tempt us in everything.
-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran
Yes, I agree. Temptations are everywhere... and it comes in many varied forms! For instance...
This morning on the way into work I was feeling especially grateful that it was finally Friday and decided to treat my co-workers to some yummy "HOT NOW" Krispy Kremes.
For me, I'm obsessed! I could have eaten the whole box had I not had the least bit of conviction! Another co-worker is a "health nut" :) No temptation for her at all - another sweet lady is on a diet (of which I need to join) and so for her, even though she was tempted, her desire to accomplish her goal overcame the temptation. And so and so on. Different levels of temptation according to the one being tempted!
That's the way it is with us as Christians. The devil loves to shove in our face EXACTLY what's going to tempt us the most. However, we as Christians all have a choice to make whether or not "to fall" for it. (Get it! The Fall of Man) Sometimes we don't "fall" because God's Holy Spirit convicts us, sometimes we don't "fall" because we are focused on a more excellent goal, and sometimes..... We do! Just like I did this morning (ahem, I only ate two thank you ma'ma!) but the great thing is that when we do "fall", God is right there ready to pick us up, dust us off, and set us straight. All we have to do is reach up and take His hand! Job 23:10 says "He knows the way I take" anyway... so might as well fess up and learn a lesson... and just maybe, next time I'm tempted I'll do better! Either way, God will still be right there!
bkpow,
Think about how hard it is on children today with all the temptations. There is so much out there to confront them with the internet today.
Although there is a lot of good just a keystroke away, there is also an abundance of evil just a keystroke away.
And as hard as times are now a parent has even less time to completely guard and guide the keyboard.
parkerbrothers, how true that is! Not only for children but for adults as well! We have to know our weaknesses and our limitations and place hedges around them. If we know we are prone to "surf the web" to some unsavory place, then even as adults we need to make sure we are not alone, or at least be out in plain sight when we do surf. Freedom is Christ is wonderful, but as Christians we have to learn to limit our "earthly freedoms". They may seem like silly "rules" to others because they are not faced with the same temptations we are.
I remember in my early twenties something that happened that I thought was the "stupidest" thing in the world. We were having Wed night visitation at church and my husband and our friend's wife both had to work. Our friend and myself paired up and went to visit a couple who had just gotten home with their new baby boy. It was wonderful. However, later we were told that it didn't "Look right" for us to be out visiting together without our spouse. Hum! Well, that was then and now I understand. Even though our visit was completely innocent, it could have given someone the wrong idea and it also could have led to more on our end as well. Just think of how many EMOTIONAL affairs happen today between people who are just "friends". Anyway, we live and learn. Call me old-fashioned! I like to think my marriage is worth the effort!
As far as teaching our children, we have to decide as parents what we allow in our homes. That's not always easy, because it means we limit ourselves as well. If we don't allow (pay per view) on our tv to keep our children from viewing something they shouldn't then we don't get to have those great ballgames etc, either.
As with everything else in life, we have to decide something's worth! Is it worth the risk? Worth the damage it could cause? And don't say, we can't keep our children from seeing those things... They can find it anywhere. True! But, they don't have to find it in their own home!
But, they don't have to find it in their own home!
-- Posted by bkpow on Fri, Jan 23, 2009, at 1:58 PM
That is the most important key.
The man don't waste anytime, does he? I wonder what is next on the Saviour's[sarcasm] agenda?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/...
Uh...
I guess it would look weird for two people who weren't married to each other to visit a family as friends and fellow members of the congregation.
It might have looked worse if it had been two women or two men or if children were in the party or the whole church roster had come by.
What if the people involved hadn't been of the same race?
Yes,innocent friendships can lead to dangerous intimacies (on or offline) and our reading material and entertainments can do harm as well as good.
But,removing hazards is only part of the story.
If we get toooo caught up in a spirit of fear and negativity,then we play into the enemy's hands as easily as when we indulge in an "anything goes" lifestyle.
Even if being overly repressive and suspicious doesn't lead to a backlash or taking away wholesome freedoms,(remember,literacy and the publication of the Bible and newspapers were once curtailed because the people "couldn't handle it"),it can lead to a crippling legalism that denies free will,free thought and grace.
Our physical,mental and spiritual health come more from what we include in our lives than what we take away.
We need the presence of honesty and responsibility and caring and courage not just an absence of fear,hate,deceit and carelessness.
Think of how the world has warped matters of nutrition.
("Oh,I've got to leave out carbs-and fats are bad,too!
Too much protein is bad for my kidneys and I'd probably be eating too much cholesterol...
All right. No protein,fats or carbohydrates. I can have all I want of everything else and be healthy-I think.
What were they saying about our water purity again?")
I think we might need to work on asking God what He wants of us.
Not what the world says,not what our family and friends and peers say,not what we'd prefer or what the enemy suggests but what God reccommends.
He'll determine what best meets our needs.
Ironically enough,his yoke is likely to be lighter and chafe less than the tack we'd pick out for ourselves.
If we're doing what God wants us to do,it won't matter if the neighbors disapprove or all our friends are urging us on.
We'll be taking responsibility for our own actions and answering to no one but the one Person who really matters.
The man don't waste anytime, does he? I wonder what is next on the Saviour's[sarcasm] agenda?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/...
-- Posted by michaelbell on Fri, Jan 23, 2009, at 3:01 PM
I don't know why but the first thing that came to mind when looking at the link you posted was the Carpenter's old song "We've only just begun" with a minor alteration.
------------------------
He's only just begun to live,
White lies and promises
A kiss of love and he's on his way.
And yes, he's just begun.
Yeah looks like he is fixing more of Bush/Cheney's destructive tendancies, How dare he! Pretty sad, he has done more good in 3 days of Presidency than 8 years of G W Bush.
Yup ;)
Our physical,mental and spiritual health come more from what we include in our lives than what we take away.
-- Posted by quantumcat
This may be true, but don't you think the more we grow in our maturity in Christ, the more our lives will be transformed? I'm not talking about being so spiritually-minded that we are of no earthly good, but rather living in such a way that people know whom we belong to. Not out of fear, but out of non-conformity to the way this world lives and thinks. It offers freedom from any worries of misconceptions, alleged mis-steps or anything else that the world may try to guilt us with. Then we are truly free to show compassion, mercy and love towards those around us.
bkpow,
I agree absolutely 100%; can you show me that here with parkerbrothers and michael? Can you show me where the compassion lies with them? Please check their other blogs and comments and show me where their compassion and good service they have given to other people.
bkpow,
You do bring up a good point. Quantumcat has hit on it before. Salvation can and should "also" include the concept of what is added to our life instead of only what is taken away.
But by the same token salvation can not be expressed and fully understood if only the additions are mentioned and the subtractions are stifled.
Perhaps Jude was giving instructions properly when he said:
22And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
I honestly believe both Good and Bad have to be presented to convey the value of the Sacrafice.
Think about it. The hotter the August day is the more you notice and value the air conditioner on the inside? What value and appreciation is recognized of the heater or air condioner on a 68-70 degree day? Let us be shown a 14 degree morning or a 98 degree afternoon and we look for the thermostat.
Christ is the perfect thermostat. We do want people seeking the thermostat, don't we?
I think it is weird how "god" actually never wrote the bible himself.
Yes he had "people/profits" do it.
But now if you think about the time and all the great medication/drugs they were on, did they really do god justices in writing the way he wanted it, the correct wording, meanings.
And also with the different languages that it has been converted to, has the bible actually lost the "main true" meaning of what god wants us to do and know.
Also since all of us have the ability to read we can read anything how we wish and take from it what you want. So to say that this is what it says in black and white is not really fair.
I would suggest you read a simple story out of the bible on day that you are in the greatest of moods, then again on a day that that was not so great. Make your own notes on what you got from the story on each of those days. A few days later reread what your notes say as to what you got out of the story.
Ok so this post I realized did not stay particular to the topic. But I guess to me that is the one great thing with the human mind, we are able to adapt, learn and continue to grow within ourselves. God has given us that the ability to open our eyes, heart, mind and soul.
Please check their other blogs and comments and show me where their compassion and good service they have given to other people.
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sat, Jan 24, 2009, at 2:10 AM
Evil Monkey,
If you warn your child of impending danger are you being compassionate?
If you deny or fail to warn your child of impending danger are not you being uncompassionate?
The Bible warns of a coming danger. When you claim, as you have, it is a fairy tale are you being compassionate or uncompassionate?
Would warning danger include a Christian assaulting innocent bystanders? If that is compassion I do not want it.
Would warning danger include a Christian assaulting innocent bystanders?
Posted by Evil Monkey on Sat, Jan 24, 2009, at 11:11 AM
Evil Monkey,
Yes, I believe it would be an act of compassion to warn innocent bystanders if there is a danger of any type of assault by anyone including a Christian.
Don't you think it would be non compassionate to not warn anybody?
How could you see it any other way?
We should be compassionate for fellow precious souls and warn them of any impending danger. Especially a threat of eternal damnation to our souls.
That is why I have a hard time understanding how anyone views Michaels' warnings as anything but acts of compassion and love.
Do you want to see any perish?
Yes, I believe it would be an act of compassion to warn innocent bystanders if there is a danger of any type of assault by anyone including a Christian.
Don't you think it would be non compassionate to not warn anybody?
Posted by parkerbrothers on Sat, Jan 24, 2009, at 1:05 PM
I bet the guy you assaulted Parkerbrothers would have like a little warning that your beating was coming don't you think? Where was the compassion you speak of toward the man you put in the hospital?
What gets me is it seems that some don't want me to have an opinion on certain subjects.
I wonder if I was to condone abortion and to condone homosexuality and to flaunt these bumper stickers I see with the word Coexist written in all the different faiths I would be loved.
Well I am sorry, I can't, My God, the only God and his Word tells me different.
I am not to be unequally yoked with non- believers and my brothers and sisters are the ones who are in Christ.
It is funny how the the talk of a "New World Order" is coming up since Obama got elected and how he is popular enough to be elected its first leader.
The man has done nothing and he is loved by the whole world as if he was in charge of it, more on the New World later.
http://www.stampandshout.org/_gfx/_bst/_...
If coexisting, compromises what my bible says , then I can't coexist.
Is there any reason all the religions of the world can't coexist? I am thinking that if they all got along, then true peace could be achieved...RELIGION..THE NUMBER ONE KILLER IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!
The only to to get them to coexist will be the false prophet of the Antichrist and that is where we are heading.
Disturbia,
I would not hurt anyone on purpose. Yes, I was strapped in the car and I am responsible for my actions. I know I did the best I could to prevent anyone from becoming injured. Unfortunately they do say someone did get injured.
There is a proper time and place for everything. This blogs purpose is not to conduct a trial. I understand your curiousity after reading the stories the Times Gazette used. However, remember there is always another side to the story. It has been determined that my first chance to say anything will about it will be in May. That is just the way the system works.
I am sorry I can not satisfy your zealous curiousity. May will be here before we know it and you can be relieved then. I have to be patient with the process and I do not think it is asking much of you to be patient also. At least try to be patient?
Their like piranha, they find a open wound and go for the kill.
The only to to get them to coexist will be the false prophet of the Antichrist and that is where we are heading.
-- Posted by michaelbell on Sat, Jan 24, 2009, at 1:45 PM
Yeah, you the false prophet, and Parkerbros the anti-christ.
Yeah, you the false prophet, and Parkerbros the anti-christ.
-- Posted by nascarfanatic on Sat, Jan 24, 2009, at 2:14 PM
Evil Monkey,
I am for Christ of the Bible, not anti-Christ of the Bible.
Listen, if you don't like what I write or what Parkerbros. comments or adds to it, then don't read it.
If it offends you, then don't read it, for the subjects will not change.
Even if for some reason Crossroads does not manifest itself, I will still voice my opinion wherever I can.
Whether here, or my own website, or in other churches, you would be amazed at the people who agree with me, though not as vocal, they do agree.
Go read something you like.
Patience Michael. The time draws near. Look up and away from you.
You are right Marvin and thank you for all your support and I know that your faith will see you through your situation as mine will me.
Remember, if the world hates us they hated him[Jesus] first.
Just be patient and remember what they cried out to Pilate.
They really do not know what they are doing and we all are actually told to pray for them.
I know it is hard but that is the instructions we all were given.
I actually have more confidence in Christ working through my prayers as I do in my ability to help anyone understand the meaning of the Gospel.
in the garden,
It is not matter of thinking, you can know God is on your side. That is the Blessed Assurance.
I personally do not think God has a problem with anyone revealing how He feels about our sins and what He has provided for a propituation for them?
It is God who has a wrath about sin. I don't see why you are so interested in shooting all the messengers down.
What do you have to gain by stopping the spread of the Gospel? I know what can be lost by stifling the spread of it but I am curious as to what can be gained in your mind by the stop of it?
But I think He might have some problems with how you invoke his name on the freakin' internet to make people feel bad and wrong without any kind of explanation.
Posted by Posted by in the garden on Sat, Jan 24, 2009, at 3:42 PM
in the garden,
I can not make people feel bad and wrong. Only the Holy Spirit through the revelation of God's Word can bring conviction about our sins upon us to make us feel bad and/or wrong.
You seem to be missing the explanation. The Finished Sacrafice was and is the only explanation.
I love how you turn my argument into a strawman by claiming I'm somehow against God because I think you're coming off as really arrogant with your faith.
Pretty lame, Marvin. Find a better angle.
-- Posted by in the garden on Sat, Jan 24, 2009, at 3:57 PM
in the garden,
Nothing is better than Saving Faith. I am not trying to be arrogant about my Faith. I am indeed thankful for the gift but I am sorry if you feel it is arrogant to speak of it.
I also do not know how you feel about God so I can not not say you are against God.
My comment was why are you against Michael spreading the Word? Not why you are against God. I hope and think you are not against God.
Saving Faith or Saving Face? You aren't saved. You are a hypocrite. Michael isn't spreading the word. He is spreading his opinion.
You aren't saved.
Evil Monkey,
I just don't know about you.
I vote to wash away the opinions of EM and his posse, if they comments on the blogs fine if not I could care less.
The new direction was to try to keep things on a civil level here, but I guess that will not be the case.
So take off the kid gloves as will I , and I guess there will be no boundaries.
Whatever issue I decide to post, so be it, if you don't like it tough.
Somebody will be reached by these blogs.
If and when Crossroads comes to be then it will be done there to.
Be expecting a lot of links from AFA.NET One News Now.net because I thoroughly support their causes.
There cause is for Christ and the moral agenda, for will all this humanism and secularism, and coexisting the morals of America are going to Hell in a handbag.
SOME OF YOU WOULDN'T KNOW SAVING GRACE IF IT SLAPPED YOU IN THE FACE!
Like Bro.Kelly always says,
"Love em like Jesus or Stone em like Moses"
I can't stone you so I have to love you ,or as the bible says to hate you[love less]
michael,
huh? my posse? I don't know any of these people, let alone met them. Your new direction didn't even last a week. Not because of me. Because you can't bear to being assimilated by other fundamentalist wackjobs. You can take off any kiddie gloves you want, I don't care what you wear to type with. Woooo I am scared. OMG NOT AFA.NET links OMG I am sssooooo worried the sheep might learn something so common sense oriented. The Moral Agenda, you mean like death sentencing? Like torture? You know conservative republican ideals?
So you feel it is Ok, to force YOUR beliefs on America. Remember, if your beliefs are placed into practice and you cheated on your wife, you should be forced to be stoned. That's what the Bible states. Your kids should be proud.
parkerbrothers,
Are you judging me? Why don't you ask people that know me how they feel about me? Can I do the same about the people that know about you?:)
I don't care what people think about you or me.
I don't try to garner man's praise, it is like fame, gone in a second.
I am not forcing anything, only offering a different choice.
A preacher that is liked by all, ain't doing his job right.
If I cheat on my wife ,I should be stoned.
As far as friends, depends on which decade of friends you ask.
Matthew 18:21
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
I think we could all stand to re-read Jesus' answer!
And while we're at it, we should remember Psalm 19:14 as well: "May the words of my mouth (even those I post on the computer) and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O Lord, my Rock and my Redeemer."
bkpow,
I have done nothing to them, I have merely asked questions for over a year and they have never answered them. Instead when I have asked them important and thoughtful questions. They just spew, YOU DON'T HAVE FAITH!. That is all they can say. Heh. Well this is coming from a man that cheated on his wife, and another man that has more lawsuits then I care to even count. Does this sound like two people that are Christians?
Which one are you referring to as far a s"cheating on his wife goes"? If me , I beg to differ I have not or will not! I take offense to the accusation.
parkerbrothers,
Are you judging me? Why don't you ask people that know me how they feel about me? Can I do the same about the people that know about you?:)
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sat, Jan 24, 2009, at 7:57 PM
Evil Monkey,
I could not judge you if I had to. The judgement is of the heart and I do not possess that ability required to see into anyones heart. Only God can see if the only propitiation for sin resides in any of our hearts.
Actually the only thing I have really any questions about is why you want to take the Bible which reveals the persona of God that He wishes to be outside the mystery and label it a fairy tale. I would hate to see one more precious soul come to believe the Bible is a fairy tale.
There is nothing to gain believing it is a fairy tale and most likely a lot for someone to loose.
Most all the writers of the Bible gave their very life to availe it to us. I really do not think they would have defended a fairy tale with their lives. Do you think they would?
Well this is coming from a man that cheated on his wife, and another man that has more lawsuits then I care to even count. Does this sound like two people that are Christians?
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 12:11 AM
Evil Monkey,
I presume you are talking about me with your mention of lawsuits. If so I wish to correct and warn you.
The Correction:
I have transacted business with thousands of people with each one involving thousands of dollars. I currently have no lawsuits filed against me and have not been the defendant in any lawsuit with anyone which I have been involved with. We have always bent over and went the extra mile to do what is right. We will continue to persue right over wrong.
The Warning:
I would hate to see fellow representatives of this company bring a vote up for consideration of a defamation cause directed at your claims.
This warning is meant to serve the same type notice I gave a racetrack several times over the period of a year. You lack of heedance to it may put you in the same position they are in. Their continued lack of heedance to numerous warnings of lack of security and control of outlandish drinking in the presence of human life interacting with dangerous vehicles amounts to gross negligence in my opinion.
Take my advice as you see fit. You might have to take the advice of a jury if you fail to give merit to my free advice.
in the garden,
No it is not my style. Sorry to disappoint you.
I prefer praying for someone first and use the law of the land second as a last attempt resort.
What do you mistakingly think I have done to you to deserve your slanderous comments?
Unless someone has proof of infidelity, don't accuse.
I am not saying there might not be some civil suits somewhere. Nothing requiring jail time.
parkerbrothers,
Did I say current lawsuits? Nope I didn't, seems I struck a nerve. That could be considered past tense. Are you saying you have NEVER been sued? Ok then, keep threatening me cause there is little to nothing that isn't true in what I have stated. Never said you lost any of the lawsuits either. You have to place the real facts out there. Twist anything you want around. Tell you what, what does the Bible say about this? Since it is clearly filled with life guiding facts on how Christians need to act. OOOOH so money is more important?
You CANNOT oppress me, I do not fear you or anyone else out there. I have NOTHING to lose and everything to gain.
Where did the accusation of infidelity come from then?
I have NOTHING to lose and everything to gain.
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 3:38 PM
That is typically why most people act as you do.
But it is still wrong irregaurdless of you having nothing to lose.
You really have nothing to gain either by defamating my character.
As I said earlier you do as you want with my warning.
Defamating your character? Are you kidding me? You did that to yourself. Have you read some of your past comments? Please do what you wish, Hell, Give me the number to your "fellow representatives" And I would LOVE to invite them over for a cup of coffee so they can see how they would like to proceed. You know the saying, "Bad Press is still Press"; especially when you will be paying the bill.
What am I wrong about?
Evil Monkey,
Just save it. Your comments are yours.
pbros,
You save it, Do NOT tell me what to say or do. As I have stated before, There is NOTHING you can do to me. My heart is light and no burdens are placed on me that I cannot handle. I have NOTHING to worry about, not from you, your company, your brother, or your favorite demons, Fear and Oppression.
I have saved it.
You are free to your choices of making. They are yours and yours alone.
Yeah, you the false prophet, and Parkerbros the anti-christ.-- Posted by nascarfanatic on Sat, Jan 24, 2009, at 2:14 PM
Evil Monkey,
I am for Christ of the Bible, not anti-Christ of the Bible.-- Posted by parkerbrothers on Sat, Jan 24, 2009, at 2:27 PM
"parkerbrothers, Evil Monkey did not say this, nascarfanatic did".
So you feel it is Ok, to force YOUR beliefs on America. Remember, if your beliefs are placed into practice and you cheated on your wife, you should be forced to be stoned. That's what the Bible states. Your kids should be proud.
parkerbrothers,
Are you judging me? Why don't you ask people that know me how they feel about me? Can I do the same about the people that know about you?:)-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sat, Jan 24, 2009, at 7:57 PM
I don't care what people think about you or me.
I don't try to garner man's praise, it is like fame, gone in a second.
I am not forcing anything, only offering a different choice.
A preacher that is liked by all, ain't doing his job right.
If I cheat on my wife ,I should be stoned.
As far as friends, depends on which decade of friends you ask.-- Posted by michaelbell on Sat, Jan 24, 2009, at 8:07 PM
Unless someone has proof of infidelity, don't accuse. I am not saying there might not be some civil suits somewhere. Nothing requiring jail time. -- Posted by michaelbell on Sun, Jan 25, 2009, at 2:36 PM
"Michael and parkerbrothers are getting confused on who is saying what to them and to which one they are talking to.
Their are people in the past that claimed they have been called to preach Gods word (prophet, or messenger) and they would focus on certain parts of the bible for their own agenda. They would talk alot about dooms day or the coming back of christ, and although I haven't heard any obsessions over homosexuals some of them did have an obsession with sex, claiming the bible saids the messenger is suppose to marry many wives and have sex with them and some were very young girls.
Some of them even began claiming that they were the son of God. I am very cautious of people who claim they are preaching Gods word and claim other preachers aren't preaching right, or that their church will be different than those churches that preach feel good type sermons. You may be one of the New Religious Movement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Religio...
I only hope we do not see another incident like this.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kores...
michaelbell, Again, I just cannot help but to comment to you. It is not my really not my intention to single you out, but you are the blogger, so I guess you are used to it. I also hope you do not read my comments in a negative light. As I have written before, I do hope you succeed in your objectives and think that there are people open to your message. That being said, there are a couple of sentiments you expressed that I do wish that you would reexamine in a serious light. On this blog you wrote: "If coexisting, compromises what my bible says , then I can't coexist." How exactly do you define coexisting? Do you mean that you would prefer to become a hermit and to keep your family protected by living in a cave, or do you mean that you intend to change the world to match your own personal ideals and understandings through any means necessary? Based on your previous writing, I have to assume that you intend to do the latter. I also recall that sometime last week, you made the prediction that you would likely be meeting someone "on the street" in a debate about homosexuality. This is just not a Christian belief, and it is not Biblically attested.
If you do believe in an omnipotent God, do you not also believe that He could make every one of us believe exactly what he wanted to, with absolutely no trouble? He could also make every one of us act as he wished. He apparently does not. If you believe that he could, and has not, why would you believe that he has assigned you (or anyone else) that responsibility? Although I am admittedly not a Christian, I imagine that one of the gifts of Christianity was that it is centered around each individual person. Christianity is an introspective religion, not an externally dictated religion. That, at least to me, is implied at the very core of the theology.
Jesus (as far as I know) never once petitioned the Sanhedrin to change the laws of man. To my way of understanding, that was not believed to be necessary, or even an acceptable way to spread the Good News. Most of the laws of man in place and enforced by the Sanhedrin were actually the laws of God himself at the time, but even then, the objective was to change the understanding of the reality being lived and the hearts of the converts. The way I read the NT, it should not matter what kind of sin or injustice you are exposed to. It matters only how you respond to it and live your own life. For example, what are we to do when our eye offends us? Compare that answer to what we should do when our neighbor offends us.
I do believe that in a larger sense, you may be right about not coexisting though. I fear you will find that the days of traditional evangelical domination of our sentiment have reached their peak some time ago, and are receding quickly. I agree that we may be at a religious crossroads. I do not anticipate a pending Tribulation as you do though. I either anticipate the emergence of a church body and theology more closely resembling the ideals of Christianity, or the religion eventually just passing into the way of the mythology books entirely. Earlier in this blog, you mentioned "humanism and secularism, and coexisting" in a negative light. I understand that you view these issues as an enemy to the church, and I will concede that they are indeed the enemy to many evangelicals, but how do you believe Jesus would view these ideals? It may be these very ideals that save Christianity. I actually believe they are the same ideals that propelled the growth of Christianity originally. The way I understand it, Jesus was not binding the people to the church and its rules and rituals, He was freeing them from it. Is that the Good News that you hope to spread?
For too many years in my opinion, the Bible has been misused, misquoted and manipulated to achieve worldly objectives that do very little to bring about the inner peace and contentment that it should represent, and in fact, does much to increase misery for everyone.
If yo want to call me a "Jesus Freak" fine, but I am not in the Jim Jones or Koresh sense or the guy in Utah either. I am not talking doomsday if you are saved, just unsaved, God will forgive , till the end.
True, I don't like rituals, but there has to be some form of order.
All those will exist, there is no stopping them, but when you know the truth, it's hard to not let people know.
Churches by all means should be a feel good service, but not all time. I give my children the do's bit they also get the dont's!
Church should be the same way.
Do prosper, good,pray,believe in miracles, forgive and look for his appearance.
DON'T break the commandments.
I was told by a great preacher I knew that church[or should be]partly tearing down the people, then building them back up.
The same as a clay pot, he is the potter, I am the clay break me crush me remake me into his image no matter how many times it takes.
When all is said and done, I will be flawless, until then, I will be remade everyday.
bkpow,you make very good points-and you do it in a thoughtful way that makes me suspect you might think even the people you disagree with have good sense,some nobility of spirit and could be used by the Lord that created them.
I find reading your posts to be refreshing and gratifying (and,not a little humbling ).
C'mon,guys!
If you were having your best day,who would you want at your side to help you celebrate?
Someone who can reason and be affirmative or the cronies who help you with the snark-fests?
When you're in trouble,don't you want someone there who is well-grounded and knows how to be a friend?
Before we get too embroiled in the issues,maybe we ought to look at the messengers (ourselves) as well as the Message.
Whatever our words say about God,people will remember more of our actions.
Are we being the kind of people we would turn to in time of need?
Are our deeds teaching the lessons we'd have our children learn?
Do we treat others as we would be treated?
Does our behavior make a loving,rational Lord seem more believable or less?
The world knows the Sky Bully.
It knows Buddy Christ.
It knows the Emcee of the great,galactic,"Blab it & Grab it" game show.
It knows the God that lives to serve all the *right* sort-and no one else.
What does it know of the source of all compassion and justice?
If all the hymns and icons and sermons and holy texts disappeared tomorrow,what would the world know of God if all they had was what they saw in our lives?
Michael, just a quick question. One of them great men you studied under readily admits he cheated on his wife and was a drunk, should he have not been stoned?
he repented and got forgiveness, the same as we all can. The key word is "was"