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House of Prayer Or A Den of Thieves!
Posted Monday, March 16, 2009, at 7:13 PM<< Previous | Read comments | Respond | Email link | Next >>
It seems as if several churches are all about numbers, both in bodies and of course in money,they seem to overlook a lot of things and say that it is just the way of the youth of today, I strongly disagree! For churches to let youth whether young or old to come into the sanctuary during the service with pants down to their knees and hats and wearing headphones or playing game boys or whatever else is totally wrong. For one they are going to distract the attention of the ones who are there to listen and to learn and distract the pastor from bringing God's word in its most effective manner. Two it can lead to the other kids doing the same thing which will continue even after the ones who started it leave. I remember Jesus chasing some folk out of The House of Prayer with a whip because they were selling and causing a distraction to the ones who were there to pray and to get close to Jehova God! When a Deacon or Elder says anything they sometimes get criticized by the other leadership for being judgmental or worse even chasing them off. Adults can be just as bad , by passing out business cards or trying to make contacts for the next week, do that in the parking lot or somewhere else, not in the sanctuary, that time is for God, not making business, You have to have respect in the courthouse while-in court, why not in God's? Turn the cellphones off, leave the game boys at home, bring your bibles, wear the best clothes you have, not hanging off your but either. For a church to "hope" that a word might fall on the ears of those and change them, how when the headphones are in? A church needs to be in order and a Deacons and or Elders or Ushers to act, well like security or even bouncers to make it run in a orderly fashion and if needed to ask someone to leave if needed. This should be a last resort, but there is scripture to support it. When Pastors start letting things slide contrary to the Word of God just to raise his attendance or his bank account or because he does not want to be harsh or controversial or even worse, being scared that he might offend someone, he has transformed himself and those who go with him into false teachers, and what is worse than that anti-Christ. Preach the Word the way it was supposed to be preached, get the thieves out of the House of God and bring holiness back in the House of Prayer.
Then again when a church is in serious debt, they are obligated to the ones who pay the bills, not God! Whether it is my own building a parking lot or maybe even a building rented from the city, I will not be in debt to man, so I will give to man what is man's and to God what is God's. That way I can preach the Word without fear of my wallet being empty! Kudos to the church leadership who maintain order and does what God lays on their hearts without fear of repercussions from others. I hope to have leadership with the conviction to do what God says, not what man wants! My church as a child, still had a woodshed out back. Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
A man getting to the roots of his faith.
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Well said! It is pitiful that we have allowed the politically correct foolishness to invade our churches.
If the preachers, elders and deacons, of all people, can no longer decide between right and wrong, the church has lost its purpose.
you need to be careful, sir. also, yes we are accountable to God but lets not get judgemental. Thats why some kids are not in church today there are to many reasons that we can find fault with them.
I will have more to say later, but I don't think comparing the teenagers to the money changers is a fair, nor accurate comparison.
They may not be the moneychangers but it seems that in several churches that they are the center of attention and actually dictate what goes on at times.
Well said! It is pitiful that we have allowed the politically correct foolishness to invade our churches.
If the preachers, elders and deacons, of all people, can no longer decide between right and wrong, the church has lost its purpose.
-- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Mar 16, 2009, at 8:37 PM
In return"well said" I am not running for political office so I do not have to be correct.
For those who don't follow the bible they don't feel guilt for doing what it says not to, or not doing what it says to.
Why should I feel guilt for not being politically correct?
I am all for teen agers in church, but not to be a distraction to others, but it does start at home though.
Michael,
I noticed and often heard Dr. Gene Scott comment that they did not allow children in the sanctuary until age of 12 and that until age of 18 they must be seated with their parents.
Perhaps that is a little on the strict side but I must say that I learned more watching him than any one in my lifetime. I could sit and listen to him teach for an hour with no distaction whatsoever. Actually I have listened to him all day long without distraction. I bought several satellite systems that bring 24/7 teachings of Dr. Scott for Christmas presents to people several years ago. I still have 2 extra ones if you are interested in having one. There is no monthly fee. All that is involved is hiring someone to hook it up. I have moved in and out of homes or apartments 7 times in the last 8 years and they usually charge me $100.00 each time to move the satelite dish.
Until you have a church and know how to pastor people be careful what you say you will do. It will come back and bite you..BAD
People go to churches today for the social events, they want to be entertained. They don't go to hear the word of God. It use to be when you become a christian you turn away from your old life style and become more Christ like, but now people want to keep their old life styles and they want the churches to conform to them, and churches are doing it to keep the money coming in.
When you enter the Lords House for worship, you should be about Gods business. You are correct in saying so. My preacher will speak out to the congregation in a minute, let's be guite and listen, or talk to our youth about dressing for success, or the impressions they portray in how they dress and act, and telling our young parents to stay on our children making sure they have respect for others and respect for themselves. The men remove their hats if they have them on when they come into my church, but our women that wear them with a certain outfit do not. I believe they consider it part of the outfit. The church needs to be about the churches business, its' doctrines and policies need to be kept. The younger generation will not know the proper procedures if it is not carried out the right way, as they get older and themselves carry on the churches business and order. Churches do slack away from things being done the proper way, so when the church holds meetings, those are the times when members need to voice their opinion on how things are being done, and explain it is not being done the correct way, and ask the church to enforce proper procedures.
A lot of them have to keep doing it if they are indebted for the big pretty buildings that Christ seemed to care little about.
There are however some pure unaffected ministries out there.
If you ever get ahold of one you will despise anything that takes you away from the learning you receive from it.
I had a point in life where almost all church services were considered to be a distraction and prevention from a learning opportunity.
We need not forget... the church itself is not a building. It is a body of believers that come together in corporate worship.
That said, yes people do need to respect others. When i was a youth pastor i would hand the boys a rope to pull up their pants and the girls a shirt if they were hanging out.
Now, when i am on the streets, preaching it is another matter. I am on their turf and i am not offended or freaked about these things.
Neither was Christ. He had attended so many parties with sinners they got to calling him a wine bibber and and glutton.
NOBODY is going to see Christ at all if we are pointing a finger at the junk.... I just ask folks to respect the others around them.
I have been a elder and a pastor for many years.
The church i attend is a progressive church, and we don't care what visiting folks look like.
Neither did christ...
The reason your young folks have not respect for the Lord or the Holy Spirit, is becasue there is not respect for Him and at home. IT starts at HOME.
If you respect God and what He does outside the walls of the "holy sancturary," then you are not going to have a problem with your children, in that matter.
WE have youth in our church that are very on fire for God, and we also have folks that make mistakes..God's grace is new every morning so should ours be.
It's not easy to manage making people feel welcome as they are while leading them toward where they need to be.
Part of respecting people is believing in them enough to expect them to act appropriately.
The people who throw the sinners out and the ones who decide "anything goes" are sending the same message.
"You're either too stupid to catch on to what's right or too messed up to act as if you have sense."
God believes in us before we ever believe in Him.
He expects us to learn (and change as we go) out of respect for Him and ourselves.
He'll nudge our hearts a bit,show us good role models and give us the means to upgrade as we're ready.
We'll still make mistakes and even try to hold on to our old ways as long as possible.
But,He makes sure that we come to a point where we have to be honest with ourselves over who we serve.
If the church's interest starts and ends with the outer being,they'll have a sanctuary full of pale and shining sepulchres with rotting flesh within.
If the inner being is restored to life and comes forth,no one really notices the externals that much.
So,what's the answer?
Perhaps,we need to ask God for guidance in each individual case.
Perhaps,a simple signal to ALL the folks to set aside the distractions and get down to the business of learning and fellowship.
We might not have to worry that much about the "good" kids emulating the works-in-progress.
It's more likely they will confirm the validity of what's taught in the Word.
("That tough act is so pathetic. Wow. How can anybody be that hard up for approval?")
We might offer a little setting of standards,a little tough love and a LOT of affection.
We might try giving people the bread and fish *before* taking their stone and serpent away.
Most of us don't behave as we did when we were under a year old.
As we matured,those things became uncomfortable and we abandoned them on our own as more was expected of us.
Now,if we're forced to "backslide" by illness or whatever,we feel awful.
Even when we're half asleep,we'll try to do things the grown-up way.
Spiritual infancy works the same way.
We have little self-control and even less comprehension of what society considers appropriate.
We just follow our nature as thoughtlessly as a newly created machine.
As we develop and grow into our "programming",we have a new nature that gives us more and better choices.
Baby souls will put aside childish things when they no longer need them.
They'll demand the nourishment they now ignore as their growth makes them hunger more and they become less comfortable with running on empty.
If a young person in the body wants to become strong and adult and feel powerful,a young spirit wants the same.
Our response should be the same.
Give them the right props,give them the right examples and let them "fake till they make it."
Don't expect them to be mature overnight but let them learn their adult roles as they play.
They'll find out about the work aspect soon enough but,with our help,they'll never lose the childlike joy that comes with thinking that copying their Father is fun.
Michael Cudos for this report, but I think that you left out the most important part of your subject! The Church is a place to worship God and not to go for the latest Gossip!!! I have been to a lot of Churches all over the country over the last 50 Years and I have seen in about 90% of them that a lot of the people go to the churches to see what gossip they can learn Not to learn about God and How to get to Heaven, or they go to the churches just so if they have a lot of problems either psychological or financial just to get counciling or money out of the church,, sure don't get me wrong the Bible says to Love and help Your neighbors, but some people take this to the extreme!!! I think that most people miss the whole point of the Church anymore and I think that is "A house to worship and Open Your Heart to God"
Have a Blessed Day!
It just has to be a "coming together" point that can be reached that brings glory and respect to the "House of God" and that does not offend the members.
Although in some cases "offending" them may be the thing to do.
It is for a couple of hours on one day a week, does it hurt to wear a belt that long? At least pull the pants up.
Some peoples dress attire bother me. I didn't choose to respond to this article right away because I am one of those that doesn't really care about what other people wear but instead dress to please myself. I really am more concerned with actions than appearances. Understandably, church leaders are concerned with overall appearance of the church. I do think several rules should be published ocassionally to the congregation that include "church courtesy" behavior for the benefit of all concerned. It is up to the "parents or in thier absence some church authority" to remind violators of the expected compliance. Ministers should stick to the message they are to impart. If ministers become the "church cop" then they will lose the neutrality necessary for them to impart sound advise to the board of elders/deacons. Why? A church member will then have someone to talk to instead of being talked down to, if a problem exist. I think God looks at the inner heart not the outer clothing. I also think he observes behaviour of all church leaders/ministers/laity.
The reference to Jesus driving out people from the temple and calling them names (vipers)- was not the correct reference needed for this problem.
His disrespect was evident in his not addressing the church elders about the problem. He just might not have been crucified as a heretic, if he followed what he taught.
Wow! Lots of good comments. My husband and I teach those youth that sit quietly with their parents and at least pretend to pay attention. We also teach the youth who come to church when no one else in their family cares a hoot about being in church. They weren't raised with the same rules, examples or guidelines as the "typical been in church since birth" youth. And although they might have to look at the index to find where a particular book in the Bible is located, and they might not know "In Jesus' name we pray" and they might not know "Amazing Grace", at least they are there. They may not act like folks might think they should, and they surely might not look like others may think they should, but we love 'em and they keep coming back. Some change, some are just curious, and some never "get it". The important thing is that they are given every chance to "get it". One kid was talking just last week about how we "know" what we know. It's just like teaching about anything else. If you were taught 1 +1 = 3 then you don't know it's really 2! If someone is sinning, and don't know it's a sin, how can we tell them it's wrong. You have to start with love, acceptance with change, and grow from there. Too many years we have expected folks to come to church and "behave" like we do so they will believe like we do and then belong there. That's backwards! We should want people to come to church because they belong there. Then when they believe, they will start to behave! My, look at all the examples in the Bible. Even Hosea was told to marry a prostitute and even to forgive her "mistakes" and love and care for her! We are to love the unlovely, not run them off.
Good points bkpow. Christ came to save the unlovely sinners of which I was lucky enough to be found among.
And you know, he gave us that thing called the law to be our schoolmaster to show us that we were sinners. Fortunately the ole schoolmaster stayed on me until it finally soaked in this hard head.
And best of all he gave us His Son and allowed Him to be the fully sufficient sacrafice needed to attone for these sins we realized we had because the schoolmaster had done such a good job on instructing us what sins is.
He just might not have been crucified as a heretic, if he followed what he taught.
-- Posted by dipperdan on Wed, Mar 18, 2009, at 8:02 AM
I think he was teaching what to follow.
If you remember nothing else, remember what He arose as. Without the resurrection everything is in vain.
The crucifixtion was of the hand of man allowed by the heart of God, the resurrection is of the hand and heart of the Glory and Power.
Also do not forget. They did not take his life. He laid it down Himself of free will. It was a "choice" he made to fulfill the Fathers will and not let the cup pass.
Even Hosea was told to marry a prostitute and even to forgive her "mistakes" and love and care for her!
Posted by bkpow on Wed, Mar 18, 2009, at 8:03 AM
bkpow,
Much like the Father was telling the Son.
I am sorry. I usually do not respond a second time, after I have made a statement on my belief.
I find however, my thoughts were on the sermon on the mount not after Jesus arrest and subsequent death. I was talking about behaviour not sacrifice. Of course, without the resurrection you have no Christianity. I do not intend to mislead nor cause hard feelings. I, however, do not think the temple scene was good behaviour and feel His display was totally out of character. I do not think His motive was teaching. I am not in a position to judge, but, I think the least violent method of church leadership confrontation would have been just as effective and He would just as likely have paid the same penalty. Diffference- His behaviour would have remained completely Christ like.
If the people come to CHURCH, be it children, adults, poor, rich, sinners of any degree. PRAISE GOD
Just maybe they will make it!!!
So lets just smile and Pray for THEM!
Well, I must say this on the subject of dress, " Jesus went into a church in his attire and wearing his sandels according to the Bible" and the people had him removed for improper dress... Think about it!!! My point is it is NOT WHAT You wear, but where YOUR HEART IS!
and another thing, If God Looked at how people dressed then someone tell me WHY God brought us into this world wearing nothing but a Smile and when he takes us out of this Life we will wear NOTHING but a smile? We come in with Nothing and we leave with Nothing according to the Bible!!! Sorry if the Bible steps on poeples toes but.....
Diffference- His behaviour would have remained completely Christ like.
-- Posted by dipperdan on Wed, Mar 18, 2009, at 9:28 AM
dipperdan,
The behaviour of Christ can be nothing but Christ like.
It is the sheer definition of itself.
How can you concur that His behaviour was anything but Christ like?
Christlike? By all means! God gave us the emotion of anger. What if you walked up on someone beating a child? Would you not be angry? Would you not do something about it? Too many times Christians just stand by and act so passive when really we need to be speaking up, not looking the other way. I think Jesus' reaction was totally appropriate and totally God! Would you stand by and let someone insult the most important person you ever loved? That's what those "money changers" were doing... and Jesus said ENOUGH!
Several of the Jews had to travel for days to get to Jerusalem to give their sacrifices at the temple. Many times some of the sheep, goats, lambs, doves, etc. would die on the journey to Jerusalem, so they didn't have the proper number of animals for their sacrifices.
Someone came up with the idea of selling animals to these poor Jews who lost some of their animals coming to the temple in Jerusalem. This way everyone could have the right number of animals for the sins they committed.
It caught on so well that everyone started leaving their stock at home and just buying the sacrifice animals when they got to Jerusalem. That made it a lot easier to travel without caring for all the animals on their journey and possibly losing some along the way.
The bible says that Jesus was upset because the temple was the house of prayer and the money changers was using it to sell the sacrifice animals and have made it a den of thieves.
(Matthew 21:12-13; Mark 11:15; John 2:15) Jesus cast out all the buyers and the sellers and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and the seats of them that sold doves.
Not only was Jesus mad because they were using the Temple or the "temple area" as a market place to sell animals, but also because the animals they were sacrificing wasn't even their own animals, but purchased animals.
In the old testament people were killed by angels because they didn't give the very best of their own private stock when they sacrificed to God. Even Cain's sacrifice from his fields did not please God as much as Abel's sacrifice from the first born of his flock.
Genesis 4:1-5
1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
This example makes it clear that God was very particular as to what they gave to him when they sacrificed to him. I am sure Jesus didn't find these purchased sacrifice animals worthy to sacrifice to God because they meant nothing to the people who needed their sins forgiven. These sinners still had their same flocks at home when they returned so what did they give to God that was good enough the cover their sins?
You are all correct, the Messiah (Christ, according to prophesy will come in a thunderous storm and destroy and destroy all except those He decides He shall keep. Vengeance is mine says the Lord. The earth shall even be transformed and the lion shall lay down with the lamb. Children will play with Serpents. Question is just who are those He shall keep? Is it not the peacekeepers?
I said nothing about ignoring problems or not defending oneself, family, or country. I feel appropriate responses should be taken. Violence and anger beget violence and anger. Problems are not cured by rash illogical actions but well thought out responses.
I have many years of military, law enforcement, and life experiences and know there is a time for action and a time for reasoned approach. All my life I have practiced defensive tactics against irrational anger and drug induced idiocy. I know peaceful restraint and disciplined offenses saves lives and peoples dignity.
I prefer to leave vengeance in the hands of God, He is more capable than I to know how to handle a problem. Again, I feel the approach should be for us, the Jesus of peace, not the role of avenger, which is clearly His.
In the case of behaviour of dress codes and electronic devises in church, should involve well thought out policies that do not counter the purpose of delivering a message of salvation to "all" who came to learn.
I have many years of military, law enforcement, and life experiences and know there is a time for action and a time for reasoned approach. All my life I have practiced defensive tactics against irrational anger and drug induced idiocy. I know peaceful restraint and disciplined offenses saves lives and peoples dignity.
Posted by dipperdan on Thu, Mar 19, 2009, at 5:56 AM
dipperdan,
I still think the experience of Jesus overrides all the experience you claim.
I think He has seen more than you and I combined.
Let Him set the example to follow.
He's the leader.
We're just the followers.
You are all correct, the Messiah (Christ, according to prophesy will come in a thunderous storm and destroy and destroy all except those He decides He shall keep. Vengeance is mine says the Lord. The earth shall even be transformed and the lion shall lay down with the lamb. Children will play with Serpents. Question is just who are those He shall keep? Is it not the peacekeepers?
Posted by dipperdan on Thu, Mar 19, 2009, at 5:56 AM
He's the Peace.
And it surpasses all understanding.
Parkerbrothers- I'm sorry-- your right-- have a nice day.
dipperdan, thanks, every day with Peace is nice and I hope you too are enjoying the many blessings.
I blame the parents for letting their children come to church dressed like that in the first place. Some of the clothes that teens wear today is either too revealing for their age or it looks like their just rolled out of bed. Also, I see nothing wrong with wearing jeans to church. We do at mine, but wear them in a decent manner. Let them wear it when there are out hanging with their friends, but not to church. I know God doesn't care what we look like or how we dress, butHe gives me His best so I will do the same. All glory be to Him because He is so worthy!!!
I just hope the hearts are properly dressed.
Somehow I think Jesus looks straight through the clothes and the skin to the heart.
I think you could be purple with slouchy pink clothes on and He would miss it looking for the heart.
Externals got overlooked from His gaze of the internal.
This is one thing I have to agree with Parkerbrothers, God sees only the inside... It makes NO DIFFERENCE what one wears to church Be it RAGS OR THE BEST EVER!!! God doesn't CARE!!! he only cares what is in Your Heart!!!As the Bible tells us We are to Love One another and teach those willing to learn, Be them White, Black, Rich or poor, it doesnt say what they wear...No Where in the Bible will anyone find a dress code!!!! it doesn't say dress in a Suit and tie and it doesn't say dress in a fancy frilly Dress , it says COME AS YOU ARE to the Lord!!!
The Old is Always true CLOTHES DO NOT MAKE THE MAN!!!
tnvet55,
You mean you only agree with me on this one issue?
I thought I was easily agreeable to on all things. :)))
Actually the inside can be messed up also when you come "just as I am". He is good at helping clean the inside up. Also a good recommendable heart surgeon.
You ever notice that He didn't seem to even care about the shoes, let alone what brand they were. I always enjoy these verses:
Luke 10
1After these things the LORD appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
2Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
3Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
4Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
5And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
6And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
If the son of peace be there? Beautiful.
dipperdan, You said:
"You are all correct, the Messiah (Christ, according to prophesy will come in a thunderous storm and destroy and destroy all except those He decides He shall keep. Vengeance is mine says the Lord. The earth shall even be transformed and the lion shall lay down with the lamb. Children will play with Serpents. Question is just who are those He shall keep? Is it not the peacekeepers?"
Your first and second sentences are absolutely TRUE!
Most Christians believe that when Christ returns he is going to wipe away the tears and the earth will be a heavenly place to be.
However, like you stated... Christ will return and destroy the Kings of the Earth and their armies who are coming against him. Secondly He chains Satan up for a thousand years and casts the beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire. Jesus brings plaques and tribulations like never before to earth. He sends his angels to slay all the sinners so only the righteous believers who haven't accepted the mark of the beast nor his image nor worshiped him are left standing alive.
Here is where the false religions jump up and say all the good Christians have already been "Raptured Up" and even the Holy Spirit has left the earth, but then say that 144,000 Jews are left here on earth to teach the sinners. How stupid is that?
If the 144,000 Jews are left down here to teach the Word of God to Sinners (Which the bible tells us that in the end no one will have a change of heart. If you are good you will remain good; If you are bad you will remain bad.) SO that would be a waste of time for anyone to remain to teach the word of God.
How can the bible tell us that God's angels will destroy the evil and leave the righteous standing if all the righteous Christians have all been raptured up?
Those who are left standing are the ones who don't accept the mark of the beast nor his image nor worship either. Now this has to be a righteous Christian to me.
When Christ returns and the Kings of the Earth come to do battle with Christ... well, this is the Battle of Armageddon, but not when all the countries come against Israel! All the countries are coming against Israel now.
After the battle of Armageddon we will have the first Resurrection. Those who were left standing will be alive here on earth to witness the first resurrection and take part in it. These people who are in the first resurrection will reign with Christ for one thousand years. Then the rest of the people are resurrected at the same time Satan is released from the bottomless pit and life goes on again here on earth as yourself. Satan will deceive the Nations again then Satan's army will surround the camp of God's people and fire will come down from heaven and destroy Satan's followers.
Did everyone read that? It says Satan's armies will surround the "Camp of God's People". It doesn't say anything about "all the Nations coming against Israel or the city of Jerusalem".
And don't forget, this isn't even in our lifetime here on earth, but the next lifetime after everyone is resurrected.
SO those who He will keep in the end times are the people who don't accept the mark of the beast nor his image when all Hell Breaks Loose here on earth and they shall reign with Christ for 1,000 years just before we all start living our lives all over again here on earth.
This is Life after death, so it does exist according to the bible. This isn't the eternal life we are taught about when we die. That comes after our second lifetime or Life after death. Next comes the second death then eternal life forever.
THEN...Finally... After this second battle between good and evil and the second death, this is when Christ finally brings peace here to the earth. This is when the earth shall be transformed and the lion shall lay down with the lamb. Children will play with Serpents.
All of these things are written in the bible, but what happens in these other lifetimes is anyone's guess! There may even be another bible to live by in our second lifetime so we won't follow Satan in that lifetime. Who knows??
James 2:1-7
1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, [the Lord] of glory, with respect of persons.
2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
The last word is... You can't save anyone who God has not given His grace to. You can preach all you want to but until God puts the desire in their heart...!
My suggestion to Michael is... teach the Truth and do it in an exciting way that will make the people want to listen and learn.
Some preacher use that same old style of preaching a sentence at a time that I find very boring. You have to know your subject and get excited about it. Make them sit on the edge of their seat wanting to hear how it ends.
Rude and unruly people and children alike should not go to Sunday School, let alone church. Many parent send their children to church as a babysitting service so they can do things without their children around to bother them, like sleeping in on Sunday.
Luke 6 : 37 "Moreover, stop judging, and YOU will by no means be judged; and stop condemning, and YOU will by no means be condemned. Keep on releasing, and YOU will be released. , says our Father .
yes we need to not judge another on what clothes he/she wears, after all isn't being there far more important that what we wear ? HOWEVER, we should do our best to dress appropriately in respect of our heavenly FATHER.
HOWEVER, we should do our best to dress appropriately in respect of our heavenly FATHER.
-- Posted by blueanjell on Thu, Mar 19, 2009, at 1:36 PM
This comment is true to an extent, The Bible says " come as You are God will take care of You", so therefore it makes no difference what one wears or what is in one's heart as long as anyone makes the first step, which is to come, God will take care of the rest in His own time and in His own way As the old song says We have to TRUST AND OBEY!!!
Luke 6 : 37 "Moreover, stop judging, and YOU will by no means be judged; and stop condemning, and YOU will by no means be condemned. Keep on releasing, and YOU will be released. , says our Father .
yes we need to not judge another on what clothes he/she wears, after all isn't being there far more important that what we wear ? HOWEVER, we should do our best to dress appropriately in respect of our heavenly FATHER.
Here is where the false religions jump up and say all the good Christians have already been "Raptured Up" and even the Holy Spirit has left the earth, but then say that 144,000 Jews are left here on earth to teach the sinners. How stupid is that?
If the 144,000 Jews are left down here to teach the Word of God to Sinners (Which the bible tells us that in the end no one will have a change of heart. If you are good you will remain good; If you are bad you will remain bad.) SO that would be a waste of time for anyone to remain to teach the word of God.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, Mar 19, 2009, at 12:42 PM
Unique-Lies :)))
No one will have a change of heart during the tribulations?
Who are these?
Revelation 7
9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
The elder in heaven told John who they were.
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
And remember just before this the angel out of the east told the other fours angels to not to hurt the earth yet until the 144,000 servants were sealed by these five angels.
Revelation 7
1And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
It appears they were sealed to prevent harm to them and these 144,000 servants served the message to this vast uncountable multitude.
And let's not forget there were already souls in heaven before this in Chapter 6.
9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
This has been seen before the first 6 shows up. The sixth seal follows this sighting of John in his given Revelation to us.
And did you notice the simple attire?
A white robe.
No suit and tie?
I thought they all got buried in a suit and tie?
Sometimes,that's the only time people will hold still long enough to get "Sunday" clothes on them.
If the suit and tie show respect,(as in a job interview,court appearance,etc.) then,by all means,wear them to church,weddings,dates,school,etc.
But,if they feel uncomfortable and artificial,then wear the clothing that you'd put on any time you're in the "real world" among family and friends.
If God's people are the Church and the Church is the Bride of Christ,then we might ask why a Bride would want anything to do with a Groom who couldn't accept her unless she was done up like a super-model every time she was in His presence?
(I pity the gals who brag that their man has *never* seen them when they weren't perfectly made up with hair done and an attractive outfit.
Where was he when she was sick or working?
Did she have to be "on stage" every second of her life?)
Similarly,we can ask what Groom would want a woman who never showed up for dates,wore whatever was at hand and didn't think He "counted" enough to merit her bathing or running a comb through her hair.
God still comes to us at His best and eager to embrace us.
Should we do no less when we get the chance to spend time with someone who is Friend,Family and the One who saved our life?
Shouldn't we be at our best when we are "on the job" representing His work?
That doesn't mean that our outsides need to be any more perfect than our insides.
(That whole business about avoiding God because you don't have the "right" clothes started AFTER sin screwed things up.)
It does mean we should seek Him first and our respect for Him will make us presentable.
Once we love Him,we'll love ourselves enough to do the best we can.
No,the Eden story doesn't mean God has to provide us with fur coats and leathers.
It does mean that He will take away our shame and give us protection.
(Even if it takes a sacrifice of innocent blood to do it.)
I think God would have preferred Adam and Eve to be so anxious to have Him "make things all better" that they forgot how they looked or satan or anything but being reconciled to Him.
Yes,He had to impress on them that He had standards and their choices had costs but He was still there to give them guidance and comfort.
We should stress that Love is what God gives and what we must give in His name.
We need to be clothed in His armor.
If we wear a helmet of Truth and a breastplate of Righteousness with feet shod in the preparation of the Good News,then we can stop worrying about girding our loins with Lycra,wearing a helmet of hairspray,covering our chests with collared shirts and ties or being shod with the latest from Cole Haan or Jimmy Choo.
Personally I don't wear a suit unless I have to, a wedding, funeral or a special event is about it.
If all you have is blue jeans and a t- shirt that is fine by me, just keep everything covered up.
I probably won't be accepted by most fellow pastors because I don't wear a suit, if that be the case so be it.
All I am saying is at least be presentable, the main thing was the cell phones, headsets and the game players.
The pants hanging down just aggravates me anywhere, even at work.
If there is a man at church who is fighting a porn addiction or a youth whose hormones are raging, seeing a scantily clad girl at church would be a stumbling block would it not?
Similarly,we can ask what Groom would want a woman who never showed up for dates,wore whatever was at hand and didn't think He "counted" enough to merit her bathing or running a comb through her hair.
Posted by quantumcat on Thu, Mar 19, 2009, at 4:31 PM
I guess you would have to love someone to overlook their faults. Much like Hosea did with Diblaim's daughter, God did with Isreal, and Christ has done and is doing for His unworthy future bride.
We actually are little more than a type of Gomer blessed with a Hosea type of Christ.
The pants hanging down just aggravates me anywhere, even at work.
Posted by michaelbell on Thu, Mar 19, 2009, at 5:07 PM
You have got to understand they grew up in a time before seeing all the "Crack Kills" commercials like we did. Thats how I knew to wear a belt to hold um up on my waist.
True!
The gals' hormones aren't exactly idle,either.
( Children of God are supposed to be decent-not dead.)
The fellas might look cute with their britches hanging off their hipbones and both of their chest hairs showing but it's more attractive and more dignified to leave a little to the imagination.
If a church requires physicals before it performs healing services,the parishoners can be issued those little paper gowns with the Velcro'ed backsides.
Otherwise,folks should stay covered so they don't induce Lust,Envy or spoil anyone's appetite for dinner.
As for the other distractions,if you were out with a friend or sweetheart and they never took their attention away from the radio,Wii,Ipod,or Gameboy,would you question their fondness for you?
Would you hire an applicant who played with an Xbox during the interview?
I suspect you'd detect a certain lack of committment.
Yea,verily,I think you'd take one look at their indifferent behavior and declare "This person ought to be committed."
(Then you'd look to see if there were any thinking,caring people around.)
The folks who seem addicted to their toys might not know how to connect with God or people.
They might close themselves off because they feel inadequate or unfamiliar with everything around them.
If they've lived within a church environment,they may have spent so much time tucked away in Sunday School,Bible School and the youth activities for "milk" Christians that they don't know how to handle an adult message.
(The earbuds are just their substitute for getting to color while sitting in the pew.)
Women used to have the same trouble (only they asked questions of their men on the other side of the curtain instead of tuning it all out).
These women knew and loved God and were responsible for the lion's share of the worship that took place within the home.
It was the rest of it that was alien and left them curious or restless when they got to synogogue.
Yes,they were encouraged to keep quiet so as not to be disruptive but they were also supposed to be brought up to speed (so they felt more like the people at Pentecost who heard everything in their own language and less like they were watching a foreign film with no willing translators and no subtitles).
If we make being an active participant in learning and serving part of growing up,then whether they do it within church or out on the streets,they'd feel empowered by the chance to belong and be involved and less bored,coerced or overwhelmed.
The pants hanging down just aggravates me anywhere, even at work.
Posted by michaelbell on Thu, Mar 19, 2009, at 5:07 PM
after reading this statement How would You react if Someone showed uo at the doors of Your Church wearing a Robe and Sandels???
If a church requires physicals before it performs healing services,the parishoners can be issued those little paper gowns with the Velcro'ed backsides.
Posted by quantumcat on Thu, Mar 19, 2009, at 9:04 PM
Michael,
You thinking about wearing one of them velcro things she's talking about. :)))
If the world is like Gomer,I'm glad we have strong pastors to serve as our Sgt.Carters.
In my youth,people fussed that all kids needed was a good belt.
Now,it looks like they need suspenders,too.
Together,like faith and works,they might keep us from stumbling.
Just a few short years ago you had to buy whatever Walmart was selling. It seemed like they quit selling regular jeans and only sold pants that the kids wore in a fad/trend. I had to go to other pants to buy cause I wasn't gonna look like the low life tend that was going around. I wanted to buy a regular pair of shorts and all I could find was the low cut long legs below the knees and baggy. So much for wearing shorts that summer.
We are forced to buy whatever is out there that Walmart can make a profit on regardless of our lifestyle.
I am one of those people who wear an inbetween size that they don't make. They are either too tight or too loose.
Unique-Lies,
The last thing I would want to see is you with a baggy pair of shorts on herding the goats through town on a hot summer day.
no problem with a robes and sandals, if that is your best.
Look my grandfather would attend church in a white shirt and overalls, that is fine.
I just think the hanging down pants are just tacky.
no problem with a robes and sandals, if that is your best.
Posted by michaelbell on Thu, Mar 19, 2009, at 9:39 PM
Who would determine if it was the best?
your own heart I suppose, then again in the end God would judge that too.
parkerbrothers,
Rev 4:1-2
1 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this." 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.
First of all, John didn't go to heaven. He was in the spirit and the angels showed him these visions.
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Notice that they wash their robes in blood and they come out white. This is symbolic of Christ accepting them.
They come out of great tribulation because they are righteous Christians and stand fast and wait patiently for Christ's return which hasn't even come yet.
There is no changes in their hearts, they remain true to God to the end.
Rev 7:15-17 explains that these souls are in the new heaven because that is where everyone will go when God and Jesus both Live with them in the New City - New Jerusalem.
John is actually seeing in the future after the second death when Christ wipes away the tears. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. This is how it will be in New Jerusalem (the New Heaven). Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Now as far as the 144,000 Jews go, why would you think they have to remain here on earth to teach when we have Michael Bell and all the other preachers to teach the Word?
This world will be in the new One World Religion and there won't be any preachers teaching God's Word during the reign of the beast and Anti-Christ. Anyone teaching the Word of God will be executed if caught and they will be because everyone will be turning in everyone even their family members.
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
These are the people who will be in the First Resurrection!
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
So if these souls are in heaven, they have to come back in the First Resurrection to become Priests and Kings of God and Jesus. The bible says they only reign with Christ for 1,000 years, so they were not in heaven all this time with God. They are sleeping in their graves and know nothing and do nothing.
You see, the dead do not praise God because they know nothing and do nothing except sleep.
Psalm 115:17
17 It is not the dead who praise the LORD, those who go down to silence;
John like all the prophets, was prophesying about the future to come.
Did you notice that back then they all wore robes and not suit and ties? They would be buried in robes or linen wraps not suits.
Did you notice also that the souls in chapter 5 were given white robes and didn't have to wash them like everyone in chapter 7?
Unique-Lies,
You have an interpretation that is pretty well... unique.
It is most unique to the early disciples of the apostle John who had the Revelation. They understood it a little different from you.
Michael,
Worldly : If you wore your best you would have to wear the same thing every Sunday unless you bought something better every week before the coming Sunday?
Spiritually : Wouldn't it be better for everyone simply to be dressed in Christ?
Which is better?
I agree, but some people take liberties to the extremes and turn church into a fashion show and draw all the attention to themselves instead of the Word being brought.
Would you wear what you wore to POP-A-TOP on Saturday night to church Sunday morning.
Look I am as casual as can be , the intended blog was the cell phones, game players and headphones, and and the church being used as a meeting place or where kids come hang out.
Heck I even know of people who meet at church to discuss sexual encounters or try to get lucky.
If they "hook up" with Christ,that's as lucky as one can get.
As for more flesh-oriented pursuits,I suppose the church building could be wired to give a signal when folks were discussing such matters.
If the parties were wed to one another,Praise the Lord that an infusion of the Holy Spirit sets off the love and committment they have for one another.
If not,the folks involved could be pounced upon by the church staff to discuss pre-marital counselling,wedding plans,etc.
(Those who are just kicking over the traces can get another kind of counselling-and maybe get dunked in a baptistry fed by the ice machine?)
Being sexual doesn't require being a horn-dog like King David.
God doesn't seem to have a problem with it so long as there's more agape than lust and people control of their desires instead of being controled by them.
If sex,food,money,wordly amusements or public opinion matter more than God,then we have a lack of respect for the Lord and His people that goes beyond being annoying.
If we (or God) are in charge of our lives,we can go a few hours without our toys,our nicotine,etc.
If not,we have an addiction that needs to be turned over to the Father.
(Anyone remember the M*A*S*H episode "Bottle Fatigue" when Hawkeye goes on the wagon?
His bar tab at Rosie's prompts him to give up the booze for a while.
The episode has him being annoying but managing to function fine without his tipple.
At the end,a close brush with death has Pierce again in the bar with a drink in front of him.
He leaves it untouched.
"I'll come back when I want it-not when I need it.")
God will give us our desires when we give Him our needs.
When we surrender our chains one day,one hour,one link at a time,we take back our freedom.
Are we too cool to give up a habit for a brief time-or too enslaved to claim liberty for eternity?
Would you wear what you wore to POP-A-TOP on Saturday night to church Sunday morning.
Posted by michaelbell on Fri, Mar 20, 2009, at 8:31 AM
What should they do if they wore their best to POP-A-TOP on Saturday night and they should wear their best on Sunday Morning? :)))
Being sexual doesn't require being a horn-dog like King David.
Posted by quantumcat on Fri, Mar 20, 2009, at 1:26 PM
Could you elaborate on that a little further please?
Hey quantumcat. I typed in horn dog in google and I did not think it was very funny.
http://www.funnyhub.com/pictures/pages/h...
If they go to church then they shouldnt be at a place like Pop-A-Top anyway!
But...If they go to POP-A-TOP they need to come to church.
I would suspect there might be some souls worth saving at both places.
This does remind me of some scriptures though.
33For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
34The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
Some folks will be satisfied with nothing.
Now,that pup was just being sociable.
Dogs don't just say "Howya been?".
They sniff out what you've been up to.
I haven't been to Pop-A-Top in a while but what one wears to a bar depends on the bar.
With some,you'd need a Haz-Mat suit to ward off the blood n' stuff flying around.
Another might require chainmail or a bullet-proof vest.
Some aren't that bad but don't land on the floor if you have peanut allergies.
I hear tell that the Pop-A-Top dress code consists of less fabric than one would use to load a shotgun.
jaxspike,maybe,the churchgoers have to go to bars to witness or haul the sinners to the E.R. or home.
BTW,if Jesus was seen as a glutton,why does the classic religious artwork depict him as thin?
Why isn't he shown as normal-shaped like Buddha?
Perhaps,one of His miracles was eating bread and honey and never putting on a pound.
(That could be one more reason folks wanted Him dead.)
I'd always assumed that Jesus wore a toga because it was a sign of citizenship,was worn for special occasions and was a symbol of peace.
(Soldiers or the working class didn't wear togas for everyday.)
But,He could have chosen a toga instead of tunic and pants because the fit is more forgiving.
I think God cares more about dignity and practicality than fashion or public whims.
Let the cranky folk be satisfied with nothing.
That's what they'll wind up with and they'll have a lifetime supply.
Makes me wish I could bark sometimes.
Michael,
I was just giving you some things to think about in some of the previous comments.
I didn't want you to think I thought you had a problem with any of your positions you stated.
I think what you are saying is definitely right. It seems even the school system requires and imposes some rules to keep all distractions down.
You have to know that if it is important to not be distracted on the 3 basic R's it is even more so important to not be distracted when teaching on the big R (resurrection).
quantumcat,
I did not mean that I wanted to bark at what you said. I actually enjoyed your thoughts.
I have just noticed in life that a dog is somewhat priviledged. :))
You got that right,Marvin.
But,they earn their privileges.
They set a good example when they learn what their Owner teaches and offer unconditional love.
(They can even find fun in being of service to others.)
I've been accused of behaving like a canine at times but I suspect that's giving me too much credit.
(Plus,I haven't chased any cars or chewed up any house shoes in ages.)
Still,if I scratch at the door and whine,I do get taken out.
no offense taken Marvin!
For anyone interested, I am going to see about getting a building for some bible study sessions either on a Sunday evening or another day.
I already have about 10 to 15 people who are interested in coming and will welcome many more.
Casual with coffee and snacks but very serious bible study.
If anyone knows of a building or anything else we could use, please let me know.
Does anyones know if the Chamber of Commerce can still be used or not?
Michael,
We just moved into the guard buildings at the entrance of the development and out of a model home. It is for sale but with the market like it is now it may be a while. You are welcome to use it in the mean while any and all nights or days.
I would also like to come to the study sessions you have.
I've not been out to the development in ages.
Will it have a "town hall",rec center or other type of community building?
That could work for meetings of various types.
I know the housing market is hideous but are any people taking a leap of faith to put clinics,learning centers,emergency services,retail,etc. out there?
I know these things require residents to support them but having a place to worship,shop,get a haircut,etc. would entice more people to live,work,go to school and raise families there.
Even the nicest houses won't encourage people to take risks if they're just storage containers for people crammed together.
There has to be a sense of community for the whole as well as the feeling that each residential unit is a home.
Having something even kin to a church would start giving that sense of community and permanence.
It might encourage people to see the public and private buildings as part of a neighborhood instead of a housing complex.
I'm glad you are making this offer.
It could not only benefit God and His people but it could help Union Station fulfill its promise.
In a depressed economy,having a stake in a REAL efficient,welcoming,small-town community would be more attractive to folks than renting one more part of an anonymous hive for the same or more money.
As with the settlements pioneers built,when a place to have fellowship appears,the development starts feeling rooted and ready to flourish.
It becomes a place to belong.
May you both be blessed and blessing in this endeavor.
Thanks Marvin, I will get out this week and look at it and talk to you about it, this could be the start of something great.
Maybe we will have time to make a difference before God calls us home!
You have already made quite a difference.
But each new day is a new opportunity to make even more difference before the Blessed Day comes forth.
Quantumcat,
We are modeling it to look and feel like a community with resembelance to an old railroad town with a business district on both sides of the tracks. The buildings as you come in are being drawn to replicate the buildings on our east and south side town square.
And as you said you really can not not have a community without a Church. If it is a good community it will always have a church at its hub.
Amen to that, maybe the name "Crossroads" is fitting.
It could bring people together.
The same folks who meet for Bible study could use the walking trails,take advantage of recreation areas,arrange to have various kinds of classes and club meetings and,maybe,have some musical events such as the ones that are revitalizing the square.
Now that the pretty weather is returning,maybe folks could have potlucks and picnics and grilling outdoors.
(Have the whole place be one big "block party" for special occasions.)
The days of Yuppie indulgence may be behind us but communities like the whistlestops of yesteryear might be on the right track.
I like your way of thinking cat!
Reading this article gave me an ideal, lets find some land and start up a "Christian" only community, after the lawsuits, and protests, and vandalism, and whatever else would be done to us for this, maybe the people would see how Christians are being treated by some sects of our society.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,5102...
The Amish may have already started a few of these communities.
They have not met a lot of resistance in the form of lawsuits or protest that I am aware of.
They peacefully exist in their communities.
I have spent a lot of time in the Amish communities that flourish near Ethridge and Summertown talking to the people. They are very interesting to talk with.
One interesting thing I discovered talking with them was the fact of people from the outside "world" becoming members of their communities and also original members of their communities that left them to go to the "world".
They commented that a lot of people have come to live and become members of their community but 95% of the ones from the "world" end up leaving them after a brief period of unadjustment. They said they believe that once someone has been of the "world" for any amount of time it is hard to leave it.
Likewise they said about the same percentage of original community members that leave their communities for the "world" end up coming back after their brief period of unadjustment.
All in all though I have to say that they are a great community with the church as its hub.
I just wrote a paper on this in college last year... yes, I'm know... I'm ancient to be in school! :)
The popularity of Starbucks and other coffee houses - where all sorts of folk meet and "fellowship"....replicating the Olden days of community of "church"... Now it's gone full circle... churches replicating coffee houses to build community... :)
There's a whole concept called "Third Place" where folks gather. Home, work, third place... we need to bring that back to the church for sure...
Ms Barbara,
Don't you want us to read your paper?
I know I would be interested in reading your work.
Howsa bow dit?
It's a bit long... and more on the marketing side of things, but here it is... just imagine the title is... Coffeehouse Community Church :)
oh... and sorry, I'm not copying the works cited either.
"Starbucks: Its Popularity and Success --
More than Just a cup of Joe!"
Remember the sitcom, Cheers? I will never forget sitting in a Baptist church training conference for Sunday school teachers and the seminar leader opening the class by playing the theme song from Cheers! Why do you suppose he did that? He did it to make a point to remind us of the importance and necessity of building relationships; just like the line from the song says, "...where everybody knows your name".
In a society where life is ran in the fast lane, there is little opportunity to stop and "smell the coffee". We live hurried lives with commuter drives and schedules to keep. Long lost are the days of visiting with your neighbor on the front porch and sharing a cool glass of lemonade or sweet tea. We no longer have time to stop by and "sit a spell" and if we were so fortunate as to grab a few minutes, our neighbors are probably running to soccer, dance, or little league practice themselves! We live in suburbia so our children can grow up in "the country" but yet, we're so busy commuting everywhere we rarely spend any time in the town we live in! Communities suffer and so do we. We have become so disconnected in fact, that organizations like PPS (Project for Public Spaces) are working to find ways to help people create and sustain public spaces that build communities.
"So, what does this have to do with Starbucks?" you ask. "What do our busy, fast-paced lives have to do with the coffee-giant, Starbucks?" In a world where sociologists are teaching about the importance of informal public gathering places, Starbucks has risen to the top! Ray Oldenburg; an urban sociologist from Florida writes:
"...informal public gathering places are essential to community
and public life... arguing that bars, coffee shops, general stores,
and other 'third places' (in contrast to the first and second places
of home and work), are central to local democracy and
community vitality."
Starbucks has taken this "philosophy" and ran with it. In most of their coffee shops you can find large, overstuffed chairs inviting their "friends" to come in, visit, and stay a while; as well as tables with high-back chairs suitable for vigorous conversations among peers, or surfing the 'net. It's not just about coffee! "Offering live music, book readings, and coffee seminars, there's a lot going on inside at Starbucks", including relationships (www.starbucks.com).
In a marketing world that screams "Relational Marketing", Starbucks has listened. They have put into practice the relational strategies as defined by Tom Peters; author of The Pursuit of Wow: "Relational marketing is the relentless pursuit of an almost familial bond between customer and product". This is very evident in the camaraderie found between the "baristas" (coffee masters) and the "regulars"; an almost "how's your mama" type of familiarity that makes Starbucks more than just a coffee house and ensures repeat business from its customers. As stated on the company website: "The connections we make in communities create a loyal following" (www.starbucks.com). And, a loyal following they have! Some of the 2007 Fiscal Year highlights include 2,571 new store openings and consolidated net revenues of $9.4 billion; an increase of 21 % versus comparable store sales growth of only 5%. No wonder we find one on every corner and even invading our local supermarkets and Targets.
Yes, Starbucks Corporation has become one of the top leaders in today's relational marketing game; not only among consumers, but employees as well. And surprisingly, its popularity crosses multiple generations! No longer is it just a place where young, savvy corporate Americans hang out to converse. It's gotten past the coffee house "stigmatism" of "Friends" and "You've Got Mail". I even have a friend who has toyed with the idea of working for Starbucks after he retires. After all, they have great benefits, insurance, and 401 plans! They were also awarded one of the twelve 2007 Gallup Great Workplace Awards as one of the worlds's most engaged and productive workforces! I doubt that even Joey, Rachel, Phoebe, or Gunther could earn "Central Perk" that award!
While I admit, that part of the business' popularity is due to people merely wanting to be a part of "the scene"; that fact in itself is part of Starbucks' success. And, even if some of the 'younger generation' do 'hang out' there just to be seen, they also go there to be with friends, meet new people and take advantage of the free wi-fi. With more and more young adults waiting to marry later in life, and also an ever increasing social consciousness, single adults are escaping the smoky bar scenes and even the more traditional church activities and taking advantage of the open and friendly environment of Starbucks and other coffee houses. Social interaction is a necessary element of our human "make-up" and Starbucks can be a place to fill that need. Why, I have been in a Starbucks before and just while waiting on my "white chocolate mocha", overheard two hunters talk
about their morning hunt, a couple of college students discussing the week's assignments, two ladies trying to make plans to go to the "Y" some day soon, and a business deal being made! "Where else can you find such variety?", and I'm not just talking about coffee, either!
Yes, there is a definite popularity and success associated with Starbucks that is caused by the societal trends we are experiencing today. Maybe some of it is due to the media's "pitch to us" in the form of advertising but even so, they resonate with our "desire to be known" and fulfill a need within us that maybe having that "good to the last drop" at home alone will never fill!
After all, I think we all want someone to "know our name".... and I think Starbucks has it written on the top of their list! So, the next time you have a few extra minutes and maybe you're thirsty, how about stopping by your local Starbucks? They might not scream "Norm!", but I guarantee that if you hang around for a while, someone will know your name! Even if it's just because they had to help you order your coffee!
Not bad for an older woman. :))-
but not as old as you! :o) barely...
"Christian Coffee House" there is an ideal!
bkpow,
Now you didn't have to go and say that.
You reminded me I am only a few days from 50.
Boy, you just messed my day up early this morning.
I guess you could say my pop tarts have been tinkled in.
"Christian Coffee House" there is an ideal!
Posted by michaelbell on Wed, Mar 25, 2009, at 4:51 AM
Ideals, if implemented, change the world.
parkerbrothers, boy you are OLD! just kiddin' :) wanna feel old, though... I have a 23 year old and 21 year old!
Michael, we had some friends who opened a youth coffee/shakes/sandwich shop in town... it was slow, but did ok. especially when they had live music there. It's something that really has to be a passion because it's a lot of work. Just FYI.
bkpow,
But I don't look a day over 21. :))
I'll tell it this way. I don't particularly care what you wear, but I can usually spot the idiots who try to prove their mothers didn't help them dress.
As for misbehavior or inappropriate behavior, There have been countless times I've used the "gonna be a homicide up in here" look. I'll have you know it works just as good on adults.
old man 57,
I know what you mean about the walks in the back yard bringing peace.
You know, it is great to see someone have it figured out like you do about the core heart and the beautiful simplicity of a peaceful relation with Christ.
I like you, have had a hard time seeing the Prince of Peace in some of the places I had been taught to find Him.
I became and remain amazed at where He could and can actually be found.
Also it seems in your post that you have discovered the real joy and blessing you get from helping others without letting anyone know what you have done. The joy that it produces is almost like none other. It purifies the heart in a way that is second only to the settling of the Holy Spirit onto you. Giving of anything should be done where even the left hand knows not what the right hand is doing.
I don't think Jesus can see the hair nor the skin for His indepth gaze of the heart.
What a heart He has! It turns the world upside down when we mistakingly think it is right side up.
Bless you oldman57 you got it right!
and brought peace in my heart
Posted by old man 57 on Fri, Apr 3, 2009, at 12:47 PM
Peace is the greatest gift and blessing of all.
Thanks for sharing with me your great belief in the Hope.