Why do even ask such a question Mr Bell when you of all people should know the answer. God gave mankind a free will. Freedom to chose what they do. One choses good or evil. The woman chose to drive past the gas station in your story. One chooses to maim or kill innocent people. One chooses to follow His teachings or take another path. Life is about choices, some are good, some are bad, but in the end, it defines who we are and how we live.

Another question might be why did our math teacher ask us what 4 times 5 is? Surely she knew the answer, do you supose she could have been asking a question to introduce a subject and get us all thinking in the same direction?

I believe God has a perfect will and a permissive will. He wants us to be "Good little boys & girls" just like we want our kids to be. He also wants us to love Him with all our heart just as we want our children to love us. He could have made us like zombies where we HAD to love and obey him. But that wouldn't really be love would it?

Consider this; Genesis 1:1 states "In the begining God---" Later in the scriptures we find that God is the Alpha & the Omega, the begining and the end. Through his prophetws he told us many things which would happen at a later date, all except the last days of the prophecies have come to pass just as the scriptures said they would. So it seems logical to me that God knew the end from the begining and everything in between.

After creating the heavens and the earth along with its Eco-system and all the plants, animals, etc he says "Let US make man." Yet God knew that man would rebel against him and he would have to send his only son Jesus the Christ to be crucified on the cross for our sins. He also knew that he would have to turn his back on his own son because when Christ took our sins (mine and yours) God could not look at him. That was when Christ cried out "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

I cannot fathom how anyone, knowing in advance that their action (creating man in this case) would cause them to have to turn their back on their only son would still go through with that action. That is LOVE!

For the "Paul Harvey" part of the story see John 3:16 thru 21.

Oh my, one of the best blogs yet!!! Bravo! I hear so many Christians say "well God is in control of everything." That bothers me. Like you said, if He was in control, then we would not need Him. Why would we pray and have faith for things? It IS all about free will. I hope more and more people begin to realize this. Thanks for posting the truth!

Suppose you took a two year old and put him in a high chair. Then you placed candy on one side of his tray and spinach on the other. Technically, he can choose either one, but would be fair to punish him if he chose to eat the candy. Of course not, because babies naturally prefer the sweet taste. He didn't choose to like the taste of candy any more than you chose to find women attractive, or chose to like the taste of steak.

If God created man, then he must have determined the strength and direction of every single one of our natural desires. So if God controls all the variables, where is the free will?

In the garden of eden, who controlled the attractiveness of staying with God, the attractiveness of the tree of knowledge, the seductiveness of Lucifer, or the gullibility of Eve? If God controlled all of these things, how did man really make a choice at all?

Bill Gates is not an atheist, he, like many others, are agnostic. You overlook the fact that he does more good in an second of his day, then you will do in your ENTIRE life. Why can't the man be judged on the good he does instead of a comment of him saying " I'm not somebody who goes to church on a regular basis. The specific elements of Christianity are not something I'm a huge believer in. There's a lot of merit in the moral aspects of religion. I think it can have a very very positive impact."

and

"In terms of doing things I take a fairly scientific approach to why things happen and how they happen. I don't know if there's a god or not, but I think religious principles are quite valid."

Both are quotes from Bill Gates. He, like COUNTLESS others just don't believe in Christianity, doesn't make him an atheist because he doesn't believe like you, I don't believe like you, but I am not and never have been an atheist.

God knows what we will do, good or bad, but he does not stop us that is freewill.

Chains, Chains, Chains!

God gave us choices.. we live in a world filled with poisons and enviromental hazards.

Your wife having a migraine could be many differant factors, hormonal...sensitivity to sounds chemicals and such.

God did not "send" it, that is ludiucris...God can and does heal.

Sometimes it is not in "our" timing. I have seen the dead raised, and miracles that defy explainations but sometimes SH*# happens..

I was involved in a bad car wreak... my car was smashed between two other cars. the man that hit me while i was sitting still hit me at 65 MPH..

I walked away, but i have migraines from being smashed in a cube the size of a Smart Car.

God caused the wreak, nope...but he did save me.

I pray through the migraines and the neck aches. and expect to have a full healing ..

Until then.. trust is what I do.

Mr. Bell you are a idiot. The cowboy hat only confirms it.

If there were gods, I would have figured it out. I'm not stupid. This (these?) god(s) choose to communicate with people via the ol' reliable standard of doing it entirely inside people's heads. If I were a god I would make myself known in other ways- I'd rent a billboard or write a letter to the editor, or write my name across the sky, or tap the next sexual predator on the shoulder just before he abducts his next victim and I would say, "ahem. This here is God. Don't scare that little child, or harm her (him) in any way, or I will wreak retribution on your ass. Amen." If gods existed that could communicate with people on this planet, and were capable of influencing human events, then those gods (God?) would be a poor god indeed. And I don't mean "poor" in the sense that one might be bereft of material wealth. I mean "poor" in the sense that it applies to moral values. I don't understand how a good god who, according to all accounts,oversees earthly events and has the ability to intervene, still gets believed in and - hold your breath- worshipped. Come on, people. Sooner or later you have to face the facts. The facts are that the ancient idea of gods no longer have relevance in our every day lives. If gods existed, their failure to intervene in situations in which their prescence might make a difference for the better, would be inexcusable, and not worthy of worship.

My heart weeps for some one you. I pray that you will know the truth and the truth will set you free from this way of thinking. Just remember...Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess the Jesus Christ is Lord! Praise God!!!

I pray that you will know the truth and the truth will set you free -- Posted by honda14

You don't have to pray for me. The truth did set me free. I've changed my life from wasted space into a respectable one after I came to understand, and accept, there is no God in control.

I'm happy and free now, but only after a lifetime of battling the only acceptable lifestyle in my community that sought to oppress and depress me. If anyone should weep, it should be for the younger men and women facing the struggles I did in my youth. It is not easy standing up against the most popular force in your entire culture even though you know you are right to do so.

God knows what we will do, good or bad, but he does not stop us that is freewill.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Fri, Jun 5, 2009, at 7:33 AM

If an all knowing God created man, he would be more than just an observer of our actions. He would be directly responsible, since he set in motion all the events leading up to our actions from the beginning of the universe.

You stated yourself that it was God's will for Adam and Eve to sin, and according to the story in the bible, I would have to agree. God could have created Adam to prefer God over sin, but he chose not to. Instead, he created a world that would guarantee sin, evil, pain, and suffering. Yet the common christian belief is that God created a perfect world, but man screwed it up. It seems to me that if the bible is true, man was set up for failure.

God did not predestine Adam and Eve to sin. Lucifer tempted Eve to partake of the tree of Knowledge of good and evil. God can not be Tempted nor tempteth any man:

James 1:13-14

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

God gave everyone a freewill so everyone could choose the life they want to live and to Love or not Love God.

God created the world and everything in it yet the world knew Him not. Even today people deny His existence. The world knew him not:

John 1:10-11

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

The bible tells us that God knew from the very beginning (from the foundation of the world), Who would have their names written in the Book of Life.

Revelation 17:8

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

God planned Salvation from the beginning.

2 Thessalonians 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

We are saved by Grace alone which comes from God, so we have no choice in becoming saved unless God predestines it

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Paul speaks of this "predestination" in Ephesians.

Ephesians 1:1-5

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:11

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

It appears that we have no choice in finding Jesus. We don't choose Him, He chooses us. No freewill here unless you count choosing not to accept Christ after He chooses you.

In the book of John, Jesus says "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you,...".

John 15:16,17

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

We read that God must send you to Jesus before Jesus will choose you. This is the "Grace of God" that sends you to Jesus. Without this Grace from God, people just aren't interested in seeking Jesus Christ. Without this "Grace from God" Homosexuals will be Homosexuals and Murderers will be murderers and adulterers will be adulterers. No need to keep preaching to them. God will send them if it is destined.

Earlier Jesus said, "Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."

John 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Believing in God and Jesus won't save you. Even the devil believes in God and Jesus. You have to believe and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, then read His word to learn all you can about Jesus. The only way to God and His Heaven is through Jesus, not prayers nor hail Marys or good works.

Only by Jesus:

John 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Man continues to disappoint God. Adam and Eve in the Garden, Cain and Able, the fallen angels he created, Mans sins at the time of the flood. It just goes on and on.

Genesis 6:6

6 ¶ And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

God got so mad at His people in the wilderness that He threatened to kill them all, so Mosses had to intervene to save their lives.

(This proves that we must intervene in the everyday living to save our lives sometimes.)

Moses changed God's mind through intervention:

Deuteronomy 9:24-29

24 Ye have been rebellious against the LORD from the day that I knew you.

25 Thus I fell down before the LORD forty days and forty nights, as I fell down at the first; because the LORD had said he would destroy you.

26 I prayed therefore unto the LORD, and said, O Lord GOD, destroy not thy people and thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed through thy greatness, which thou hast brought forth out of Egypt with a mighty hand.

27 Remember thy servants, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; look not unto the stubbornness of this people, nor to their wickedness, nor to their sin:

28 Lest the land whence thou broughtest us out say, Because the LORD was not able to bring them into the land which he promised them, and because he hated them, he hath brought them out to slay them in the wilderness.

29 Yet they are thy people and thine inheritance, which thou broughtest out by thy mighty power and by thy stretched out arm.

Satan is the God of the system of things, the ruler of this world, and the prince of this world. He has gained control of all the Nations. Look at all the anti-Christ things the governments do today. All the governments will come again Christ when He returns... proving the governments are anti-christ.

The Power of Death belongs to the devil. It is satan that kills helpless children and the good people and leaves the evil ones alive to live on and do his bidding. Satan is the one behind the disasters and terrorist attacks.

God does NOT take good people home to be with the Lord. That is just an old preachers tale to make his congregation think God wanted their loved one. It was satan that took the loved one to make the family curse God for the death or disaster.

God came in the flesh as Jesus, the Christ, to die so through his death he might destroy the power of death which is the devil. Here we see that satan was defeated so we too can defeat satan by using His WOrd and rebuking him. We can intervene just like Moses did and save a loved one who is about to die etc.. We don't know what is set in stone so when we intervene, maybe it is what God wanted to begin with.

Hebrews 2:14

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

The Spirit itself maketh intercession for us

Romans 8:26-27

26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

If it is God's Will... that is a big cop out! Below is what God's will is. Just because Jesus spoke those words don't give us the right to say "if it is God's Will."

Well, for you who don't know what God's Will is...here it is:

GOD'S WILL...

1 Thessalonians 4:3-6 (King James Version)

3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

Death and sin did not appear until after Eve was tempted and took of the fruit of the tree of life. They CHOSE, to disobey God. At that point God cursed the world and death entered in.

I have yet to find any of my beliefs to be illogical. I will readily admit there are alot of things I dont understand, but that doesnt make them illogical.

Now what reason would God have to "force feed" them the fruit, that doesnt make any sense at all. Just because God knows something doesnt mean that he influenced it. If I leave money out I "know" my wife will get it, that doesnt mean I forced her to pick it up against her will. All that means is I "know" its going to happen. So, no, I dont believe omniscience trumps free will. I will admit it is very difficult to grasp, and for someone who doesnt wish to believe in God it could be a very convenient place to take off your thinking cap.

Just because God knows something doesnt mean that he influenced it

-- Posted by greasemonkey on Wed, Jun 10, 2009, at 3:54 PM

I disagree, because if God is omniscient, when he created the chain of events that made Adam, he was also making Adam's choice for him. God knowingly set up all the factors that affected his decision, and knew how the various circumstances would make him choose right or wrong. It was not up to Adam, but to God, to decide how Adam would fare. Adam had no choice at all.

So, in my opinion, to say that everything is man's fault and Adam should made the right choice is absurd. God had absolute knowledge and power over the situation, and is responsible for the outcome. If God is perfect, he doesn't make mistakes. So it had to have been intentional.

As for why God would do that, I don't know. I can only come up with three possible conclusions: A:God is not all-knowing, B:God is immoral, or C: God doesn't exist.

Richard,

It seems that you believe that God is under the restraints of time as we know it. Once you realize that God is outside of time then it makes things simpler (not simple by no means, for this is a very deep subject).

God has already seen what choices WE have made, but just knowing them does not conclude he made them for us.

To come to the conclusion that there is no God, would indicate that you are omniscient, especially in light of the overwhelming evidence.

Unique-Lies, That is a good and informative comment, as usual. Since no one is here to argue with you, I will play the devils advocate. The question was; how could they discern right from wrong, as it pertains to eating the fruit, if they had no understanding of that concept at all previously? To do the right thing, one must have a concept of what is right. To claim that they knew it was right to obey God, before they ever became aware, is a tough hurdle.

I just wonder though, if eating from the tree of all knowledge, the story does not only draw from the human condition and bring it into focus. If we look at Gods interactions with humans in the primeval history, the trees in the garden, the mating with giants or the siege tower in Babel, what we see is a desire of man to become more than just man. Through knowledge, eternal life, mating or spatial proximity, we all want to be gods.

Thank you. That does sound like a book I would enjoy. After reading the synopsis, I doubt I will see things from his perspective though. It appears that he thinks knowledge in itself can be bad. I would have to say that it is only the lack of it that is the problem. That is okay though; there is nothing more boring than reading a philosophical book that does not challenge what I already accept. I ordered a copy tonight.

It will be several weeks before I get and read it, but I will try to find you here after I do. Hearing your take on it, I guess I would agree in most part. There are many ways to be lacking in knowledge. Choice, external restraint or limits due to our societal advancement and understandings. The first is sad, but justifiable, the second is inexcusable and the third cannot be helped, but I am not sure that lack of complete understanding in and of itself should limit our advancement. Again, I imagine it is the lack of knowledge (in this case lack of future knowledge) that represents the problem. However, I think to ever achieve the knowledge, we must first master the forbidden and misunderstood. That may lead us in unexpected directions. Sometimes unfortunate, but maybe necessary?