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He Came, He Went, He Will Come Again!Posted Sunday, August 30, 2009, at 9:07 AM
He will judge, and Bible is the two edge sword he will use as his witness!
Most everybody loves going to the Nativity scenes, which are so Westernized, it looks as if he was born in Texas, they go to church, pet baby Jesus on the head and then leave without change or conviction. I have no problem with Christmas being holy to some or whatever because the reason for ALL seasons is Jesus. They go to church on Easter and see a bloody Jesus on the Cross, shed a few tears and leave again, some groups still have him on that Cross, News alert he got off and lives today! Easter eggs and all that is fun but not the reason for reflection during that time of year. We discussed how he came and how he went, most stop there because if you believe in the coming again part, then you have to believe in a word called Accountability, that hurts don't it? Without the Resurrection my faith would be in vain, for I would die and well stay dead! Sure Jesus raised people from the dead, but they died again, only to live again, eternally. Jesus lived died and lives again! He will come back to judge and decides the fate of all mankind, so it is great to see baby Jesus and the bloody Jesus on the Cross, but I would start paying attention to the one talked of in Revelation for that is who we will see next. Question is, when he does come back, not if but when, and he pulls out his book, are you in it? Only the ones in Jesus will live eternally with him, all others, well you better have sunscreen with protection, it don't go that high! Fact:1 He lived! Fact:2 He died! Fact:3 He rose again! Fact:4 He is coming back! As for me I choose the the "Old Paths" which are mentioned in Jer:6-16 This will be the core verse for my ministry. There is nothing wrong with a new style worship, but all worship and doctrines must come from the Bible to be true worship. I choose the trusted path which is the Bible, if that path is a false one, then I have lost nothing, but because it is a true path and I don't stay on it, I will loose everything! By the way in the Jewish text the word path is translated Crossroads, so I felt inspired to use it. Here is what ADONAI says: "Stand in the way of the crossroads and look: ask about the ancient paths, Which is the good way?' Take it and find rest for your souls. Most say what the ones said back when this was said. "We will not listen" All roads may lead to Rome, but only one road leads to God and eternal life, and that is Jesus, get on the right road now! Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
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With the modern day dog and pony shows going on in most churches, if he does show up, they won't recognize him, or they will simply turn him away because he isn't wearing an Armani suite and wearing a Rolex watch.
That is very sad, but very true.
Tattoo -
Very few recognized Him for who He was at the first coming.
Let's hope He is recognized for who He is at the second coming.
We humans do have a way of building expectations over time as to what we want and think we should get and then have a hard time accepting when we get what was descibed and coming all along for us.
The Jews at the first coming were humans with inherent traits like us today. Years of human thinking and traditions allowed them to be deceived and not recognize the Perfect Sacrafice when He stood in front of them in flesh and bones with a heavy heart and full of the passion.
Unfortunity I think the anti-christ is going to have a large christian following.
Chief and bellbuckletn-
I agree. I think a lot of people will be deceived and willingly follow the anti-christ. Who knows chief, maybe the actors are already acting on the global scene.
The anti-christ will have a very large following of the (so-called)christians and politicians.
If our country does not soon return to the christian morals and values upon which it was founded, one can only wonder what's coming next.
Thomas Jefferson:
God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever." [Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781]
He even knew then that return of Christ would bring justice and order back to mankind.
The above is a valid quotation... The problem with it is that it is often used to make some sort of point with regards to Jefferson's religious beliefs--usually to claim that Jefferson was a orthodox Christian. Quoters fail to explain that the quotation comes from a section of Notes on The State of Virginia in which Jefferson was discussing slavery in Virginia and has nothing to do with Jefferson's religious beliefs.
(jim allison)
michaelbell, in your first quote you seem to have missed the glaring omission of one key word...."Christianity". jefferson believed in god, here is what he had to say about christianity:
"I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature... Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make half the world fools and half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the world."
(thomas jefferson)
Thomas Jefferson:
" The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man."
"Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus."
"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus.
in your quote he said "Our" superstiton" or say version.
Peter denied Christ not once not twice, bur three times and even cursed him the last time, but he to came to realize that there was no other than Jesus who saves.
No Christianity is not perfect nor was Judaism , that is why the Cross is so important!
Mr Bell, you make me want to quit going to church. You are so wrapped up in you own delusion, if Jesus did come back today, you wouldn't know him.
true, but because I already know him.
those are good quotes michaelbell, altho i find them further from your original premise, not closer. he refers to the doctrine of jesus, not the doctrine of christianity. he even refers to himself as a "true christian" for following the doctrines of jesus, conspicuously *not* saying the doctrines of christianity. as far as positing that jefferson "knew then that return of Christ would bring justice and order back to mankind." i find nothing remotely close to that. for that matter, where in jefferson's writings can i find any reference at all to the "prophecies" of revelations? revelations was not the teachings of jesus.
See what I mean.
...he refers to the doctrine of jesus, not the doctrine of christianity...
Posted by lazarus on Tue, Sep 1, 2009, at 8:54
Lazarus -
Jesus Christ is the "christ" of "christ"-ianity.
For those who are "In Christ" I don't think we will have any trouble recoginising Him.
The word says "I say unto you"(Jesus Speaking), " Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven" Mat.26:64. Another verve says that "ye shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory" Mark 13:26
If you know the Lord, Believe me you'll know him when you see Him.
Yes, His sheep will know Him and we will be glad to see Him.
We have a good Shepard.
Are you Jewish Mr Bell?
Might be why do you ask? Jewish is a faith not a nationality.
Do the Jew not believe in Christ? Sounds like you have a conundrum in your beliefs.
What happened to Chief's comments?
Do the Jew not believe in Christ? Sounds like you have a conundrum in your beliefs.
-- Posted by Chef Boy R.D. on Thu, Sep 3, 2009
There is a sect of Jews, sometimes called Messianic Jews, that do believe in Jesus as the Messiah. And before this world as we know it is destroyed, there will be many more Jewish people who will be saved because of their faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior.
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12
What happened to Chief's comments?
-- Posted by Midnight Rider on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 8:13 A
Midnight Rider -
Last night I was reading one of Chief's comments on the blog about the traffic stop involving the claim of an obscured licence plate and they issued him a warning that he might be insulting the native Indians. ?????
Soon after I noticed they deleted all his comments on the other blogs. I also think it is the subject matter of one of the most recent blogs by John Carney titled "comment moderation".
I notice in that blog Mr. Carney denies it had anything to do with any particular subject and he actually says he did not even know what the subject was about but it is somewhat interesting and puzzling that the post about the discussed possible frivilous police stop is the post that he issued him the warning on?
There is a sect of Jews, sometimes called Messianic Jews, that do believe in Jesus as the Messiah. And before this world as we know it is destroyed, there will be many more Jewish people who will be saved because of their faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior.
Posted by Midnight Rider on Fri, Sep 4, 2009, at 8:20 AM
Midnight Rider -
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't a lot of the Jews (other than the Messianic Jews) still waiting for the first appearance of the Messiah while we are waiting for the second coming?
I assume the Messianic Jews we are referencing correctly accept Jesus as the Messiah at His appearance almost 2,000 years ago just as we do?
You know the thing about the Chief's comments, is that they were not offensive, at least to me. He just made a comment about Chef Boy R.D stirring the pot. I have seen a lot worse comments about others on these blogs-and they are still here.
So, I ask T-G, What gives? Why did you remove the Chiefs comments from this particular blog? Did he ask them to be removed, or did Chef Boy R.D. ask you to remove them because he did not like what was said?
Blessed Assurance, Messianic Jews are people of Jewish faith that believe as the Christian does, that Jesus is the Messiah and has already come once and will come again.
Most Jews who practice Judaism believe that the Messiah has not come yet. However, and I am going to open a can of worms here, but the 144,000 ( Revelation 7 4-17) spoken of in Revelation are a missionary corps of redeemed Jews who will be instrumental in the salvation of many Jews and Gentiles during the tribulation.
No Midnight Rider I did not ask to have anyone removed. It also seems that Mr Bell has not answered my question yet. Maybe he is doing some soul searching. Judiasm, Christianity, Muslim, are all trying to get to the same place, but with a different path. Who's right? Who's wrong? We'll all find out in the end.
Jesus says that NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH HIM, what other answer is there?
michaelbell,
Please tell ME again, "Why the Cross is so important"? I must have missed something. The cross is just pieces or wood nailed or tied together to hold the bodies in the air for people to watch as they die.
A cross is a cross and doesn't give anyone Salvation. It is an image that people worship because they can't see Jesus in their hearts, so it is convenient to worship the cross in His place.
All the churches have a cross and whenever possible, they have an engraven image of a man on the cross so people can find it easier to bow down to and worship it instead of worshiping Jesus in their mind, heart and soul.
If Christianity and Judaism is not PERFECT, why is this Cross so very Important. A cross is something we all must bare. We must all carry our own cross, but it won't get you anything nor give you Salvation.
It's like Jesus said; "No one comes to the Father except by me".
To everyone reading this Blog:
Please tell me where the Bible says that when Christ returns (the second coming) there will be peace on this earth and children can lie down next to lions, He will wipe away all tears and all pain and suffering will be done away with and there will be no more death!
In summary;
When Christ returns, He is bringing plagues and tribulations. He is going to defeat the kings of the Earth ("One World Government", which will no doubt be the USA), Destroys the City of Babylon ("New York City", the world Capital), Destroys all the sinners on the earth and only leaves the righteous (who don't accept the mark of the beast) alive on the earth to witness the Resurrection. Even Satan is chained up in the bottomless pit and the false prophet and the beast are thrown in the lake of fire.
The 144,000 Jews in Rev. 7:1-8 and Rev. 14:1-5 are "REDEEMED" "FROM" "THE" "EARTH". They were bought back to God by Jesus' Blood just like everyone else, but we aren't redeemed from the earth.
These 144,000 Jews do NOT stay here on earth to witness to Jews who are sinners. If these other Jews don't accept Christ, then they will be killed by the sword that protrudes from His mouth just like everyone else.
The 144,000 Jews leave the earth and go with Jesus everywhere He goes from then on. They don't come back nor stay here to witness to anyone.
->> However, I do invite everyone on this Blog to show me where the bible says otherwise.
the cross itself is nothing, it is what happened on the Cross that counts, and what happened 3 days later.
I could explain it, but you would still doubt it as everything else we have debated back and forth.
Read the last two chapters of Revelation and you will find your answers.
Isaiah 11:6
The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.
Isaiah 65:25
The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain," says the LORD.
----
Definition: lie down, lie : to assume a reclining position;
Example: "lie down on the bed until you feel better"
No sexual connotation is implied in the verse.s Just future peacefull existance between species. Being able to be one near the other without any attack from actual predator to prey.
I never said the lion would lay down with ther lamb, but there will be peace.
michaelbell,
First , let's get something straight. I know all about Salvation and how it occurs. God must give you His grace in order for you to find Jesus. Then it is through Jesus Christ that we are saved.
-> Jesus died for our sins - We can be forgiven of all our sins (once just as Jesus died once for everyone).
-> By His Blood - We are redeemed back to God from the powers of Satan. God owns our bodies and souls. There is no way anyone can say God doesn't own me because Jesus "Paid the Price" with His Blood.
-> By His Stripes - we are Healed.
Why does everyone believe the first two conditions, but refuse to believe that we can be healed and even heal others in His name, because of His Stripes?
Everyone believes what they want to believe but stop short of believing everything Jesus promised us. What a waste of Precious Promises.
-> Jesus died for everyone. Not just the people in the past and even the present, but in the future also. Yes, when everyone thinks the Holy Spirit has gone back to heaven, they are wrong because god promised to be here for everyone yesterday, today and tomorrow.
-> Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected in three days to prove that God approved of the sacrifice of His Son for everyone.
-> The Cross is symbolic of death! It is also used to ward off evil spirits, etc.
The cross was a tool used to humiliate thieves and robbers and other criminals. The Romans used the crosses to display the criminals to all the people walking past to look up and spit on and be humiliated by people walking by.
Why not worship the Roman spear that pierced his side so Jesus would bleed to death before night fall.
Jesus would be appalled at the thought of people worshiping a cross instead of Him.
Paul told us that we should concentrate on God 24/7. If we are distracted by the opposite sex, then we should get married so we can get back to concentrating on God again and not be distracted. Does this sound like Jesus would approve of worshiping a cross?
-> Now the last two chapters of the Bible, in the book of Revelation, describes the new heaven and how things will be like from then on.
-> Chapter 21 of Revelation takes place over 1,000+ years after Christ returns the second time. I don't question these things that are printed in the Bible. I question why people think these things are going to happen when Christ returns, when it will be over a thousand years later that things thing will come about.
Jesus has to Resurrect everyone and let Satan loose to deceive the Nations again before He will go on a killing spree again and Kill all the enemy who surrounds the camp of His People (in number they are like the sand on the seashore) by fire from heaven.
No where is this saying that the world will come against the country of Israel.
Who is to say that our countries will be the same after the Resurrection. The New World Order puts us into 10 divided sections of the world. The Bible says that there will be nations again, but Israel won't be a country by itself.
-> This is misinterpreted as to mean all the countries today will come against Israel, when the Bible is merely saying that Satan's followers will surround the camp of God's People (after the people have all been Resurrected and many deceived by Satan, thousands of years in the future from TODAY).
-> The Anti-Christ has to come yet to straighten out the mess that Congress and the State Legislators have put us in before the beast will show up to rule the world in a new world order with a one world Government, one world religion and one world money with a one world Judicial System.
Christ has to return to throw the false prophet and the beast in the lake of fire, slay all the evil doers with the sword that protrudes from His mouth, then Resurrect the first group of people (those who were killed for the sake of Jesus and who didn't accept the mark of the beast).
A thousand years later the rest of us dead people are Resurrected to join the ranks of the living again.
How many years must go by before Christ destroys Satan's followers is unknown. One thousand, two, or 7 thousand years???
If one day is like a thousand years, the first resurrection would be the 7th day or the thousand years they reign with Christ.
When everyone else is Resurrected that would be the 8th day or 8th thousand year period. Now how long we live again is unknown but has to happen before Jesus Judges the world and sends people to the New Heaven, New Earth or the Lake of Fire.
In short, when Christ returns, it isn't going to be pretty.
NOW! As for the Laying down part goes, I wasn't implying children having sex with animals, but living peacefully with all other people and animals on, in and under the earth.
You and others like you have deemed my a devil and just assume that I am sick in the mind.
I was only letting everyone know that many years, if not thousands of years have to go by yet before all this can take place.
Don't get me wrong thou! The Anti-Christ and the false prophet can appear out of nowhere any day now.
The cross was a tool used to humiliate thieves and robbers and other criminals. The Romans used the crosses to display the criminals to all the people walking past to look up and spit on and be humiliated by people walking by.
Why not worship the Roman spear that pierced his side so Jesus would bleed to death before night fall.
Jesus would be appalled at the thought of people worshiping a cross instead of Him.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 2:32 PM
Unique-Lies -
I hope after you read the following you will see what nonsense you make most of the time.
1 Corinthians 1:17-19
17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
I wish the cross wasn't such foolishness to you.
Blessed Assurance;
Christ Is God's Power and Wisdom, not the cross!
I referred to the (Material) cross as being an idol, not the message of the cross.
I opened my last post with the message of the cross so everyone would know I know how we must seek Salvation from Jesus but only after God sends us to Christ who died for us and was raised.
-> What part of that did you not understand Blessed Assurance?
1 Corinthians 1:18 (King James Version)
18 For the "message" of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:18 (Amplified Bible)
18 For the "story and message" of the cross is sheer absurdity and folly to those who are perishing and on their way to perdition, but to us who are being saved it is the [manifestation of] the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:18 (New International Version)
18 For the "message" of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:18 (New American Standard Bible)
18 For the "word" of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:18 (New Living Translation)
18 The "message" of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:18 (Contemporary English Version)
18 The "message" about the cross doesn't make any sense to lost people. But for those of us who are being saved, it is God's power at work.
So, in closing, please feel free to preach and worship the cross all you like, however you should try preaching the "message" of the cross of Christ.
Unique-Lies -
No one seemed to be worshiping a cross or even thinking of such except you. Somehow you concocted that idea and went on a rampage about it after Mr. Bell mentioned the importance of what happened on the cross and what happened three days later.
Also worth mentioning is your recitation of the King James Version of 1 Corinthians 1:18 is mis-quoted and possibly mis-leading.
Last time I checked it still said " the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness"
I think Mr. Bell was preaching of the cross.
I think unique-lies sought to make it appear as foolishness.
I may be wrong but your comments above sure appear that way to me.
Chapter 21 of Revelation takes place over 1,000+ years after Christ returns the second time
Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 9:04 PM
And remember what Peter tells us:
7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Let us not be ignorant.
Blessed Assurance;
You are right, it was a misquote.
(King James Version)
1 Corinthians 1:18
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
However, the (New King James Version and all the other bibles I researched stated "message of the cross" or word of the cross)
(New King James Version)
1 Corinthians 1:18
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Please do tell me what the "preaching of the cross" is?
Is it not the story of Christ being betrayed, beaten and crucified and raised in three days?
This is not a holy cross, but a story of the death of Jesus. The cross was a temporary fixture used by the Roman executioners. This same cross has no signs of still existing today. It was just pieces of wood that have long since decayed. Yet you an millions of people think it is something to worship and hang around your neck. I see people bow down to it, kiss it, do hail Mary's and yes, even pray to it.
Jesus told Thomas, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." No cross needed to remind me of my belief in Christ.
-> I think unique-lies sought to make it appear as foolishness.
I may be wrong but your comments above sure appear that way to me.
-- Posted by Blessed Assurance on Mon, Sep 7, 2009, at 10:00 PM
If the message of the cross appears to be foolishness to you, you are lost and perishing.
2 Peter 3:8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Let us not be ignorant.
-- Posted by Blessed Assurance on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 5:35 PM
Unless you are God, a thousand years is a thousand years and a day is a day.
I speak in thousands of years because I know you are not God.
Rev 20:3
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
You know so much Blessed Assurance, just how many "days" or "Thousand years" is a "little season"?
This is the time God gives Satan to deceive the nations before He destroys the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Jesus returns, casts Satan in the bottomless pit for (1) thousand years. then Satan is loosed for a little season.
Any way you look at it, that is 1 thousand years plus a little season (1,000+ years).
However, you still have to add the days, years or seasons that Christ spends here on earth judging all the people after he cast Satan in the lake of fire.
This is the second death, then all the pain, suffering and death will be done away with.
One Thousand plus years is putting it mildly.
So don't hold your breath waiting for Christ to return and make everything a paradise here on earth... it is going to be a long, long, long time after Christ returns
Let us not be ignorant?
Unless you are God, a thousand years is a thousand years and a day is a day.
I speak in thousands of years because I know you are not God.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 9:38 PM
Neither are you but it would probably be wise for me and you to recognize God's speaking first.
I thought it was God's timetable being discussed and revealed to John in Revelation...wasn't it?
And to top it off...I think I will still stick with Peter's admonition over a unique-lie.
So don't hold your breath waiting for Christ to return and make everything a paradise here on earth... it is going to be a long, long, long time after Christ returns
Posted by Unique-Lies on Tue, Sep 8, 2009, at 9:38 PM
Unique-Lies -
I still find comfort in Paul's words to the Thessalonians who seemed to be having the same "problem" you are exhibiting.
1 Thessalonians 4
13But I would not have you to be "ignorant", brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Notice the word comfort in verse 18 right above?
I believe it is safe to say Paul intended to comfort the Thessalonians.....wouldn't you?
I also find his words to the Corinthians comforting.
1 Corinthians 15
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Mark shows us this hope in Mark 14.
61But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Even John in Revelation 1 brings more of this hope.
7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
He's coming for His. I'm looking up in anticipation for the Promise knowing of the great change that comes in a twinkling of the eye. I hope you are.
I think I can hold my breath for the twinkling of an eye. You can too with Faith.
Blessed Assurance, you posted:
I thought it was God's timetable being discussed and revealed to John in Revelation...wasn't it?
And to top it off...I think I will still stick with Peter's admonition over a unique-lie.
If God revealed His Timetable to John, wouldn't John reveal it to us? God would not confuse John with His Timetable if it was not the same as John's and ours. This would confuse the whole book of revelation if not the Bible itself. God would speak of a timetable that John and everyone reading His Word could understand and calculate. Otherwise why would He even mention the time Satan was to be locked up in the bottomless pit, or how long the rest of the dead had to wait before being Resurrected?
In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Paul is speaking to the Thessalonians about the misunderstood rapture. You believe Paul is telling them that everyone will be in the rapture, yet Paul doesn't mention this fact with any other group of people. It would appear that Paul is only including the Thessalonians and himself in this rapture according to your belief of the rapture and Paul's teaching. Why didn't Paul teach anyone else about this rapture and teach them they would be Raptured up to meet the Lord? Is this Paul's secret rapture that he privately wanted the Thessalonians in with him? That must have comforted the Thessalonians when they heard Paul was killed by being beheaded at the hands of the Roman emperor named Nero, for his confession and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Why wasn't Paul Raptured up before he died, like he preached would happen?
I see no reason why they wouldn't be comforted by Paul's private invitation to be Raptured up with him, or at least until they heard he wasn't Raptured up.
In 1 Corinthians 15:51-58
Paul's teaching to the Corinthians is entirely different. Here Paul is not inviting the Corinthians to be in this special rapture. In stead, Paul teaches them a mystery. He teaches them that we will not all sleep, (Die) but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet... the dead shall be raised incoruptible, and we shall be changed.
In verse 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
we read that death is swallowed up in victory.
Death is swallowed up in victory when it is thrown in the lake of fire along with Hell.
Rev. 20:12-15
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
-> 1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Here is where Death is swallowed up in victory, right after everyone is judged according to their works.
THEN...
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
NOTICE that nothing is said in this book about anyone meeting Christ in the clouds. It only says everyone will be changed so they can go to the New City of Jerusalem or the New Earth. Everyone else has been thrown into the lake of fire.
He's coming for His. I'm looking up in anticipation for the Promise knowing of the great change that comes in a twinkling of the eye. I hope you are.
I think I can hold my breath for the twinkling of an eye. You can too with Faith.
-- Posted by Blessed Assurance
Revelation 1:7 (New King James Version)
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
Matthew 16:27 (King James Version)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
When Christ returns, He will defeat and kill the kings of the earth and the armies that come against Him.
Revelation 19:19-21
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
CAN YOU HOLD YOUR BREATH THAT LONG?
I still think I will stick with Peter, Paul and John's words without a "unique" twist added to it.
I find their words comforting and producing fruits of the spirit.
This unique twist you have would have a man having nightmares if he was to give it half a thought.
Find the Joy and Peace.
Then you could change your name to common-truth.
Why wasn't Paul Raptured up before he died, like he preached would happen?
Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, Sep 10, 2009, at 11:53 PM
I have never heard anyone get that out of Paul's preaching.
I guess you have indeed a unique understanding all of and to your own.
> Blessed Assurance <
Why can't you answer my posts with something sensible that can be read in the bible?
You have used 1 Thess 4:13-18 as the scriptures that explains how "Paul" is going to be in the Rapture, and how all the Thessalonians can take comfort in knowing they will be in the rapture with "Paul".
Yet Paul does not preach this rapture to anyone except these Thessalonians.
Since you understand Peter, Paul and John, how do you explain this and the fact that Paul was never in any Rapture like he preach?
Did not Paul say "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." just before he said "Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
If I changed my name to common-truth it would be a Unique-Lie because it is not common-truth I speak against, but Unique-Lies that have been taught for centuries.
Do you believe the False Prophet and the Beast come in the next few years and set up his kingdom here on earth and declares he is God... before Christ returns like the bible states?
The Beast and the False Prophet make everyone accept the mark of the Beast whose names are not written the Book of Life. This is the time of the Trials and Tribulations when people will be slain or imprisoned for not accepting the mark or worshiping the beast or his image.
Then Christ returns and the saints are caught up in the clouds to meet Christ in the air, so this "Rapture" doesn't occur until after the Trials and Tribulations of the Beast. Everyone who thinks he/she will be Raptured up, won't be Raptured up until after the Trials and Tribulations begin.
The only way anyone will not be here for the Trials and Tribulations is if they die before it starts.
If Michael Bell shuts down the blogs I guess this will end my posts also, so I pray everyone will read their bibles and invite the Holy Spirit to help them understand God's Word.
I am not shutting them down just taking a sabbatical to re energize!
You have used 1 Thess 4:13-18 as the scriptures that explains how "Paul" is going to be in the Rapture, and how all the Thessalonians can take comfort in knowing they will be in the rapture with "Paul".
Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, Sep 17, 2009, at 11:03 PM
As I stated earlier I have never seen anyone get that message out of Paul's letter to the Thessalonians. No one I know understands Paul to be saying him and/or the addressed Thessalonians are definitely going to be in the events he was describing to them. But rather that if they were still alive they will join them (the dead in Christ that rose first). If he/they died before the return of Christ I think he was including himself/them in the "them".
Also I know you are well aware or at least should be that the word "rapture" is not used in the Bible but rather has come to be denoted as a single word of the English language that has a now accepted known meaning to sum up the total events that Paul was describing to the Thessolonians.
Besides, the just plain Good News is we have an Advocate for our sins that we will join in the clouds and be with for ever. Experience the Joy, Peace and Blessed Assurance we have through Him.
> Blessed Assurance <
Why did Paul ONLY TELL the Thessalonians about this caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and not anyone else in the pages of the bible? If Paul knew all the Christians would be caught up in the clouds, why didn't Paul tell others about it instead of just telling the Thessalonians.
Is it because he was referring to the 144,000 Jews and he knew he would be one of them to be caught up in the clouds. Or was it because he thought everyone would be in the rapture until his friend John informed him later that only 144,000 Jews would be caught up in the clouds?
Unique-Lies -
Somehow you just don't get it. Why? I have no idea.
> Blessed Assurance <
How does...
Unique-Lies -
Somehow you just don't get it. Why? I have no idea...
answer my post above as to why Paul did NOT Tell others about the Rapture?
This rapture should have been taught all over the bible if it was going to happen for all the Christians. None of the other Apostles seemed to speak of this rapture. Only Paul knew about it until John had his vision about the 144,000 Jews. Nothing else speaks about this rapture or caught up in the clouds. You and Millions just like you are basing your future existence on one passage that Paul spoke to the Thessalonians.
answer my post above as to why Paul did NOT Tell others about the Rapture?
Posted by Unique-Lies on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 7:46 PM
I would say verse 13 in the Thessalonian address pretty well answers your question unique. They must have been the only brethren he found "ignorant" of it then.
The lesson he taught then can be beneficial today to any of us brethren that are "ignorant" on the subject.
13But I would not have you to be "ignorant", brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
Have Hope and let it comfort you tonight unique.
Or was it because he thought everyone would be in the rapture until his friend John informed him later that only 144,000 Jews would be caught up in the clouds?
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sat, Sep 19, 2009, at 12:30 AM
I would say Paul had left his tent of flesh here in a hole in the ground about 40-50 years before John experienced his Revelation and could inform him about it.
I understand you believe we are literally sleeping in our graves when we die but in order for your explanation to work Paul would have had to write while asleep also from the grave.
Seems unlikely to me.
> Blessed Assurance > You wrote:
I understand you believe we are literally sleeping in our graves when we die but in order for your explanation to work Paul would have had to write while asleep also from the grave.
Seems unlikely to me.
-> That makes no sense at all to me.
First of all, I said the Bible tells us that we sleep when we die (Deuteronomy 31:16; Daniel 12:2; Acts 13:36; 1 Thessalonians 4:14). This is a spiritual sleep that our soul does. Our bodies rot in the grave. As I have stated several times, when we die we do nothing and know nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5-10) so how can you even think Paul could write while his soul is sleeping.
It would appear to me that you are saying that Paul died just as soon as he spoke to the Thessalonians and couldn't tell others about the rapture.
Please explain to me why you think Paul would have had to write after he died!
Please explain to me why you think Paul would have had to write after he died!
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Sep 20, 2009, at 2:21 PM
Unique -
My comment was in reference to your statement...."Or was it because he thought everyone would be in the rapture until his friend John informed him later that only 144,000 Jews would be caught up in the clouds?"
I apologize if I have confused you. That was not my intent.
You haven't confused me. I only wonder why you can't answer a question with proof of what you say with scriptures. You just make childish remarks as if they are answers that someone might consider as being???
Yes unique, I think you are a little confused. I tried to explain to you how John could not have informed Paul about his Revelation of which the 144,000 were revealed since Paul had died somewhere around 30-40 years before John's Revelation while on the Isle of Patmos.
Not a big deal to get worked up over. Just relax and experience the Joy and Peace provided. It's wonderful.
> Blessed Assurance <
You posted:
Yes unique, I think you are a little confused. I tried to explain to you how John could not have informed Paul about his Revelation of which the 144,000 were revealed since Paul had died somewhere around 30-40 years before John's Revelation while on the Isle of Patmos.
Since Paul was beheaded long before John had his vision, John could not have told Paul about it, so back to my original question;
Why did Paul only tell the Thessalonians about this caught up in the clouds. He never breathed another word about it to anyone else in his writings. He only told the Thessalonians about it.
Did Paul realize that he was wrong? If he was so excited about being raptured up, I would think he would be telling all the believers about this rapture.
Why did Paul only tell the Thessalonians about this caught up in the clouds. He never breathed another word about it to anyone else in his writings. He only told the Thessalonians about it.
Did Paul realize that he was wrong? If he was so excited about being raptured up, I would think he would be telling all the believers about this rapture.
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, Oct 1, 2009, at 11:28 PM
Unique-Lies -
First off, to say he never breathed another word about it would require you or anyone for that matter to conclude somehow that he never said or wrote another word that is not recorded in scriptures. Even his own letters that did get recorded make mention of other letters he wrote and visits he made to the bodies of believers that are not recorded.
Second off, I don't think it was an issue of Paul's excitement that generated his need of discource with the Thessalonians. Rather, I think it was a matter of trying to explain to them again the lack of understanding (or ignorance as Paul puts it) on what he had already taught them.
Study both the Thessalonian letters carefully. They are both relatively short and resourceful. As in his letters to any of the other bodies of believers (Corinthians, Romans, Galatians, Phillipians, etc,) it is quite easy to see that they were all struggling with different things at different times.
He found the Thessalonians brethren to be "ignorant" and need of guidance on the issues of the ressurrection when he wrote to them accordingly in 1 Thessalonians.
1 Thessalonians Chapter 4
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Even in his second letter to them of 2 Thessalonians they were still struggling with these issues and in need of guidance.
2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
I think if Paul had found the Corinthians "ignorant" on issues of the resurrection he would have addressed them accordingly also.
Likewise if the Thessalonians were found somewhat "ignorant" of the doctrines of baptisms as he found the Corinthians to be he would have brazingly scolded the Thessalonians also on the subject matter. Paul could hardly get the first chapter of 1 Corinthians started good saying his usual howdy dewdy's before he lit into them...
14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
I hope that answers your 2 questions of...
"Why did Paul only tell the Thessalonians about this caught up in the clouds. He never breathed another word about it to anyone else in his writings. He only told the Thessalonians about it."
"Did Paul realize that he was wrong? If he was so excited about being raptured up, I would think he would be telling all the believers about this rapture."
I'm not saying that Paul never told any of the other believers about it, but rather it appears the Holy Spirit never inspired it to be brought forth in another letter for scripture.
Likewise he could have told and instructed others besides the Corinthians on those issues of baptism.
If I were speculating I would say that he discussed all these elementry issues with all the bodies of believers several times. Some just struggled understanding different topics at different times at different places under different circumstances. Just like me today, I struggle.