New Pharaoh?

Both the pledge you post and the Judges poem were circulated long before Obama became President. I see no relevance there. as for the scriptures being interpreted in the manner in which you chose I commend you for your eforts. I honor and respect your opinion. I do however find it a far reach to use them to make Obama out to be more a menace to society than what he truly may be. He is not the only idividual in support of the issues you are against and yet I don't see anyone codemning others in the same manner. It makes for an interesting read but that is about all.

"leading us into uncharted waters as far as the economy, and morality of the nation, much less our commitment to Israel."

So what you are saying is... He isn't repeating the same mistake over and over again? Interesting concept.

ummmm, michaelbell, your t-shirt "sold in egypt" is produced by a company called newsspoofs headquartered in san jose, ca. if you want one, you can call 408-693-0869, or order it from www.newsspoofs.com. they specialize in anti-democrat (especially anti-obama) t-shirts. i dont know if they ship to egypt or not. of course that is less of a load than your "revelation god gave me this week", unless god is now contacting you thru fruitcake web-sites, since this whole diatribe is simply a plagiarism of other people's writing. so which more effectively glorifies god; making stuff up, or copying from someone else, and calling it your own?

Michael, I tried to read it all the way through, but admittedly got a headache trying to make sense of most of the rhetoric..."it's all Greek to me."

Don't get me wrong, I think Obama is an under-experienced, over-zealous, anti-Christinanity (except when it suits his purpose/needs), pompous authoritarian who is trying to force his own ideals on the world at large...but he's quite simply, just a reformed drug user* dressed up in an expensive suit and "playing [White] House" at the tax payer's expense.

*Obama is an admitted drug abuser in his book entitled "Dreams From My Father," in which he discusses using marijuana and cocaine. In October, 2006, he told a New York Times reporter that his drug use was "...reflective of the struggles and confusion of a teenage boy. Teenage boys are frequently confused." I wonder if Judge Ritch would buy that excuse from my teenage son in court?

FYI: For those of you ready to pull the "race" card on me, I am referring to the White House in Washington D.C., not color of skin.

as far as the shirt goes, it may not ne the exact one sold in Egypt. but the point is still the same.

I tend to agree with Shawna on what she says . . . that is pretty much how I see him to an extent. He becomes a Christian only for political gain and his lack of experience and understanding of the presidency is shown by the quagmire of his administration and not even being able to unite members of his own party. I feel as though he wants to create some big world legacy for himself but unfortunately he lacks the true foundations and skills for that kind of achievement because eloquent speeches can only take you so far if you don't have the true mindset and forth sight for such an undertaking.

well said Bellbuckletn and shawna and jaxspike.. well said.

Michael, you are a very good example of how the right wing fanatics are destroying religion. You distort Gods word for to show hate for anything you did like. It is sad to watch. People need to see the light of God in our actions and the hate and malice you and your followers show will only serve to distance people from the real word of God, and instead of drawing them near will only push then further away. We need to encourage people to READ GODS WORD WITH PRAYER and to trust him to guide us from those who would use it for evil and to destroy us. False prophets will abound , and you seem to be interested in being at the head of that line.

If you wish to serve the people instead of spreading hate and propaganda spread Gods word for the good of people not the ruin. Instead of passing on stories of t-shirts and trying to bring down the president spread FAITH, bring people together in prayer and pray for the president to do the right thing for the people, pray for his guidance, look for positive ways to get involved to improve our country. If you disagree with something then be proactive in a positive manner to come up with solutions and present them, be a helpful asset to fix what is wrong rather than a negative divider spreading hate and causing more damage.

The ministry is not there to teach us to hate and destroy but to lead us in faith and teach us to act in a GODLY manner for the GOOD. You are not representing GOD here you are representing the rights agenda to bring down the democratic president. You are not out to find solutions because your only interested in getting the democratic president out of office at any an all cost, country be damned if it must.

Where is your faith? Where is your trust in prayer? When has it ever been Gods way to spread evil and hate? What ever happened to the good messages of Gods word?

Were Obama to have "republican" next to his name every word said would be gospel to you , he would not have to change them a bit from what they are now. It is the rights hate for anything not rightwing that is the fuel for your fire.

I can't speak for Mr. Bell personally but it would not matter to me what Obama has by his name; whether it be democrat, independant, guru, head honcho, republican, he still is what he is and I think Mr. Bell is not far off.

Just be glad we can still all have our own opinions without Obama trying to provide that for us.

don't play the race card either, because not only do I not like his black side, but I don't like his white side either.

You guys crack me up. The jokes and idiotic remarks are better on here then Leno and Letterman combined. YUK YUK !!

By the way Michael Bell you (and it seems many of your so called Obama haters) do play the race card every time you mention President Obama. The read between the lines is so clear but trying to use the bible to back it all up it just so sad. Let me ask you this, where in your bible does it state that God is a white republican ? I can't seem to find it in mine. I guess we will all find that out on judgement day Mr. Bell. Hope to see you there.

"shawna,

Bush did the same exact thing, What is your point? Who started the Bailouts? I will give you a hint, it wasn't Obama."

-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Tue, Sep 29, 2009, at 8:35 AM

Perhaps in your skimming you failed to read everything I wrote, including:

"I don't lay this all on Obama...he inherited a huge mess when he took office. But instead of trying to turn things around and pull us out of the hole, he's hired his army of Czars and together they are digging that hole deeper and deeper, and deeper still...until soon all sense of direction will be lost, and the American people will no longer be able to distinguish up from down in order to pull themselves back out."

My point is that the so called "change" Obama promised is turning out to be nothing more than more of the "same." So, would you still be backing him if he wore the label of Republican by his name? After all, he's continuing--and exceeding--Bush's mistakes.

FYI, I am a registered Democrat who has voted Democrat in every presidential election since I turned 18, when the "Massachusetts Miracle" Michael "Dork-kakis" rode the tank, until last year, that is...and not because of Obama's mixed ethinicity--aren't we all mixed to some degree--but because underneath all the "charisma" he is just an inexperienced politician lacking the skills, knowledge, and wisdom gained through years in office.

The only "change" I'm seeing so far is more debt-a lot more. Bush rode into office on his daddy's coattails, Obama did it on his charisma and race. I voted Al Gore, maybe more Tennessean's should have and [perhaps] we wouldn't be in this mess.

I'm still a registered Democrat on paper, but I consider myself a Moderate, sitting somewhere in the middle rather than to the far left or the far right (if I lean at all, it is in favor of capatilism and free enterprise--two basic foundations of this great country). Maybe that "change" we need is an official who sits somewhere in the middle and unites both parties.

shawna, in a perfect world true but this world is not perfect and the republicans out of their hate towards the democratic party are proving that they would rather follow the example of their great and almighty RUSH L. by putting all their efforts into spreading hate towards Obama ,his failure is their one and only acceptable out come( or any other democrat had they been elected instead)they are willing to sacrifice you me and this country to achieve that mission. Just like Michael here they pull snippets of the bible to back their hate, they spew and repeat any lie or falsehood they hear , true most don't know if they are fact or fiction - they simple don't care - as long as it will do the job of maybe causing people to hate the democrats.

Their hate for Obama is stronger than even their love for GOD, that is shown by such things as the title of this blog. Michael had not one single intention here of trying to do anything but spread hate for the president. He did not intend to attempt to offer any real lessons in the love of GOD, or to encourage the message of faith and trust in prayer, He did not try to lead people to go out and do anything positive. It's sole intent was to insight hate. He offered no true solutions only the message of hate.

Had he had even the slightest concern and desire for the welfare of AMERICA he would have asked people to pray for America, and for our Presidents guidance for GODS will in America, he would have called the people to go out and use the love and faith in GOD to come up with ways to help our country, to bring about positive helpful solutions. Instead all he does is just the opposite he uses his so called pulpit to spread hate and try to divide the people.

Sadly behavior such as being seen from the so call religious right is turning more people away from the church, they do not want to relate to the hate and negative messages being spewed.

So if anyone really gives a hoot about this country instead of using the hate messages and trying to divide America go out and show America what christian are called by GOD to truly be. Loving caring people who trust in the will of GOD, who know the real value of faith and prayer. Who know that a positive action towards good is always better than a negative action towards hate.

Use your faith and prayer to find Gods will for this country and then follow his direction to achieve it. God would never call you to be hateful and ugly. We are know by our actions to be Christian more so than by our words. To preach the word of God while stabbing your neighbor in the back will not bring around change and most defiantly will not bring others into the body of Christ.

Until you are willing to become a part of a solution you are a part of the problem and need to just butt out. Now that being said , I in no way am saying to sit back and follow and just accept anything the world tells you to, I am saying to go out and do something positive not just spew hate and misinformation. Obama is our president love him or hate him, same as Bush was, oh well that is what it is - will you be proactive and act in a positive manner that will make a positive result, or will you continue to do the hate and lies and get nowhere? Offer realistic positive solutions and drop the useless hate mongering that will only serve to keep satin happy and destroy our country.

If you don't like or approve of something , offer a better solution or option.

False profits abound folks and it's hate and separation that is one of their biggest tools.

IN FAITH WHEREOF the representatives of the Governments of the United Nations have signed the present Charter. DONE at the city of San Francisco the twenty-sixth day of June, one thousand nine hundred and forty-five.,

That is from the last page of the UN Constitution, so which congress sold us out? This is all very interesting. If this was done back in 1945, is that to say that our government has in effect been useless since then? And how is Bush was able to just do as he pleased as far as going to war, and many of the things he forced on America, would they not have taken some real action against his betrayal or was he in reality working for him also?

Bilderberg Group, who are these people and again if they so own us where did Bush stand with them? Could that be how that his first election was so manipulated? Do they actually have that much control over the doings of our country, how and when did they get this power, and I guess why? Do they get the person they choose elected without regard of party?

If they have been around so long why wait till now take the 1st and 2nd amendments? Also if they are so strong why would it matter which part was in office?

Like I say this is interesting, I would like to hear more about it.

All that being said though, I still stand on the need to trust in prayer and guidance of Gods will, and trusting in our faith in Him to guide us. Hate does have a strong history but so does faith and trust in God.

To learn about the Bildebergers, just do a Google search. Also learn about the Council on Foreign Relations, and the Trilateral commission.

Search for international treaties override U.S. Constitution as well. You may learn that U.S. sovereignty and Christianity is being sold out.

Bush, Clinton, Obama, all say islam is a peaceful religion. That is only true if you are islamic. If you are not, according to the koran, you are given the choice of converting or being killed. Mohammed himself killed over 700 people. That sounds real peaceful doesn't it?

How many did Jesus kill?

Why would all these world leaders tell us things like this that are not true? Could islam be the one world religion that provides the needed hiearchy system to implement the new world order?

Christianity does not provide for an earthly hiearchy other than Christ himself speaking directly to each individual through the holy spirit. This religious system would be very hard to bring under the control of one man or government.

God expects us to be active servants, not benchwarmers. Be either hot or cold not lukewarm.

No man knows the day or hour but the seasons are clear. Are you ready?

> LetsGetRealFolks <

On March 9, 1933, Franklyn D Roosevelt tricked Congress into signing documents before he was even sworn in as the President that would Amend the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917 which would included the United States citizens as the enemy to the United States any time this country was at war or in a state of emergency. Pres. F.D. Roosevelt then declared a banking holiday and took the Gold away from the American People, Then he declared this country in a state of emergency and could only be repealed by the President of the United States. In the process of doing all this treason against America, he changed the section of the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917 to read that the President of the United States could act without the consent of Congress when the country was in a state of emergency also giving the Secretary of the Treasury power to do whatever the president wanted done.

F. D. Roosevelt wasn't smart enough to draw up all these documents before he was even sworn in. This was done by the IMF and Federal Reserve, or the rich bankers.

Roosevelt died before he could repeal his amendment to the Trading with Enemy Act of 1917, so any and all Presidents since FDR can use this Section to take control without the consent of congress just as long as this country is at war or in a state of emergency.

Their power is in owning the money in the world. Our congress keeps on spending and the debt keeps getting bigger and bigger. No way can it be paid back except by using our land and property as collateral for our country's debt. These bankers are making money when our troops are at war or occupying another country because congress has to borrow money to support these troops who are doing nothing for our national security. These bankers cause recessions and economical chaos at their leisure in order to fill their pockets with more money.

These rich bankers, the United Nations and the Federal Reserve all work out of New York City (the Great City of Babylon) which Christ will destroy when he returns.

We have to have faith, hope and belief in God and trust that he will help us get through whatever we must endure. We more than likely will never see all or any of these events unfold in our lifetime, but we should instruct our children and grand children to be prepared for what is to come in the near future. Know how to recognize the Anti-Christ and the False Prophet and of course the beast. This information will help them know what is happening, so they won't be unaware of the dangers of accepting the mark of the beast, etc..

The United States can not go from a Christian Nation to people worshiping the beast and his image over night. It has to be a gradual change so the people don't see it coming until it's too late. To just say our government would never do anything like that is absurd. Keep your eyes and ears open to the truth. The Bible tells us it will happen in the last days and we can see it unfolding before our eyes if we look.

The Bible says that the Kings of the Earth will come against Christ when He returns.

These Kings of the Earth are the world governments and since they are coming against Christ, that makes them Anti-Christ. The armies of these kings of the earth are going to use our children and grand children to fight this senseless war with Christ.

No weapons formed shall stand against the word of God. To even think they have a chance to fight God is just plain stupid, crazy and insane, but they will try.

Micheal Bell: If you haven't seen this I think you wwill want to, go to http://wwwyoutubecom/watch?v=zIVT-jwPz...

God didn't put Obama in the White House, he let him in cause you idiot doen't have better sense.

I agree with Beck totally on this one!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,5581...

If I were to have opposed anything the Bush administration did, I would have been referred to as a patriotic American, exercising my right to free speach. However if I speak out in opposition to the Obama administration, I'm referred to as an anti-American racist. I swear I'll never understand liberal logic.

Tattoo's you seem to have forgotten when Bush was in office when you said anything against him you were labeled as Anti American, accused of not supporting our troops, HE stated if we were not for his way you were against him and get out of his way........ So soon you forget.......

When ever one party says something against the other they are called horrible things, goes both ways.........

What kind of fruit do they bear? Is it the Fruits of the Spirit that runs as sap in the veins of the tree? Do you find love, joy, peace scattered all around under and on the tree that are ripe?

If you find not these fruits turn from the tree, it is rooted in the grounds of deception.

-- Posted by Blessed Assurance on Thu, Oct 1, 2009, at 11:27 AM

Very true, Blessed Assurance. Thank you for your warning. I always apply this same measure and I always check against scripture, completely, and in context. Satan often uses scripture but partial, and/or out of context.

I am also ready to challenge and evaluate my own understanding realizing that the battle has already been won and that the light will reveal the hidden truths.

Darkness and deception run from the light of truth which is Jesus my Lord.

Live For Light

I believe I will be on earth until the seventh trumpet (unless I die sooner). Not "Raptured".

I couldn't find rapture in my Bible anywhere hmmm...?

LOL :) Not sure I would recognize the trumpet as descibed in the prophecy is that a brass trumpet or a shophar? What note will it be etc.? But I do know Christ. More importantly, he knows me. I have no need to fear.

The trumpeter may be irrelevant as well, unless your saying that the trumpeter is Christ. That is where the deception can come, when you say "HE". It must be Christ, no other. Christ will fulfill all the prophecy perfectly "He" will not.

Don't strain out the gnat while swallowing the camel.

I keep my eyes focused on Christ, all else is, and will be, well.

I would love to see you on the clouds, as long as Christ is with me you can be looking back, down, up, or sideways, it doesn't matter to me. What matters is Christ in all and through all.

But this blog was about Obama and prophecy. So what do you think his role is? Is at as Mr. Bell describes?

I would love to see you on the clouds, as long as Christ is with me you can be looking back, down, up, or sideways, it doesn't matter to me. What matters is Christ in all and through all.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Thu, Oct 1, 2009, at 5:01 PM

He will be there as promised.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

See you there.

These are scary times we live in...I never realized how scary until I began blogging the t-g and have witnessed how much hate has intertwined into our lives. God seems to be our one and only common ground, let's find a way to mend the fences before His sheep are all led astray....

> Blessed Assurance <

You posted:

Don't focus on the trumpet so hard you overlook the Trumpeter. I would hate to look back off the cloud going home and see Unique-lies and you tugging against a couple of trumpets.

Sounds like you are planing on taking a cloud ride. Where is that published in the Bible?

You also said you were going home. Please tell us when you were born in Heaven that you can call Heaven your Home! You came from the dirt of this earth and you will return to the dust of this earth.

Psalm 115:15-17 (King James Version)

15 Ye are blessed of the LORD which made heaven and earth.

16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Here the Bible says that the dead do NOT Praise God, so you don't go to heaven and praise God. You lay in your grave and your soul sleeps until it is resurrected.

Momof3&3step&1gran

In order to have a One World Order there must first be World Peace! Countries are not going to join a One World Order if they are at odds with another country. They will become under the jurisdiction of a One World Government with a One World Judicial System. (World Wide Laws that would apply in every country) This would mean our Constitution couldn't be allowed. Our U.S. Constitution was written in such a way that it can not be suspended or superceded by an International Treaty. Our Government will just have to convince the American People that the Constitution no long exists.

The people will believe this Unique-Lie because they believe anything the Government tells them and will waive their constitutional rights unknowingly.

People won't listen to anyone unless they went to a college somewhere and have a Masters Degree or been trained in that field. What the people don't seem to understand is that these people are trained to believe a certain way by someone who expects to be in control over them.

I have listened to Preachers and Constitutional Experts right down to the level of the local policeman and found that they are brainwashed to believe Unique-Lies.

Preachers can only learn God's Word from the Holy Spirit.

Constitutional Expert can only learn the Constitution by reading its interpretations by the "de jure" "Article III Supreme Court justices".

Law enforcement know absolutely nothing about the law. They only know de facto laws, which are "unlawful, unjust and unconstitutional" according to Black's Law Dictionary.

-> De facto is a Latin expression that means "by [the] fact". In law, it is meant to mean "in practice but not necessarily ordained by law" or "in practice or actuality, but without being officially established". It is commonly used in contrast to de jure (which means "concerning the law") - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

When the U.S. freed the slave and made them citizens of our "central Government", Congress had to create new laws in order to control them. These laws did not apply to American citizens, only 14th Amendment Citizens. The People were never told this so everyone has waived their "God given Rights" that are protected by the U.S. Constitution.

Even the Tennessee State Constitution recognizes the People as the Sovereignty in this State over the government.

How can the United States sell us to the One World Order when the U.S. Constitution "Prohibits it"?

It is "We the People" who is letting our Government do these things to us through ignorance of what they are doing in front of our very eyes. All the Government has to do is tell us they would never do anything like that and the people are okay with whatever it does.

The President and Congress are Puppets for the Rich Bankers. We the People are Puppets for the President and Congress to manipulate our every thought and control when we have the power to control Congress and even change anything we want to about our Government. We are now under a dictatorship which has the means to overpower us by martial law which is a Constitution Violation.

Oh well, Christ is coming soon. It all seems to be going according to His plan as God has foretold it 2,000 years ago.

Here the Bible says that the dead do NOT Praise God, so you don't go to heaven and praise God. You lay in your grave and your soul sleeps until it is resurrected.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, Oct 1, 2009, at 11:10 PM

Unique-Lies,

He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

And might I say among a multitude too great for man to number.

Blessed Assurance:

Matthew 24:30-31

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

-> He sends His angels to separate the sinners (by throwing them into the fire) from his elect who are left alive here on earth.

Mathew 26:64

64Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Jesus was talking to the high priest.

John 14:1-4

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

-> Here Jesus talking to His Disciples, not you.

Acts 1:9-11

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

-> Here it is important to note that these two men (angels) instructed the disciples that Jesus would descend into the clouds when He returned, just as He ascended into the clouds.

The Lord doesn't stop in the clouds, collect his church then go back to heaven again. When He returns he stops in the clouds to meet His chosen few in the air then continues on His journey to earth in His Second Coming.

Revelation 1:7

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

-> There is no secret meeting (nor Rapture) in the clouds with the Lord. Every eye shall see Him. He comes with a loud noise and the armies (which were in heaven) behind him.

Rev 19:11-14

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

1 Thessalonians 4:17

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

-> This is the 144,000 Jews who are redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 11:12

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

-> these are the last two Prophets who are stoned to death and brought back to life and are called up to heaven.

Rev 14:14-16

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

-> These verses are referring to the Lord reaping His crop. He is sitting on a cloud but He doesn't reap his crop up into the clouds.

First He has His angels throw all the sinners and evil doers into the fire, leaving only the righteous people alive. These people remain alive and are in the first phase of the first Resurrection.

-> Recap:

Matthew 13:38-43

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

The Lord harvests his crop by, "FIRST" sending his angels to eliminate the sinners and evil doers and leave his righteous elect alive.

To put it another way:

Luke 17:33-36

33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

-> According to Matthew and Luke, Christ returns and destroys the sinners and evil doers and leaves the righteous Elect alive to help in the First Resurrection.

Doesn't sound like a Rapture or a ride in the clouds to me.

However!

When all the evil doers and Sinners are thrown into the furnaces, the righteous people who are left alive may instantly transform their earthly bodies into immortal bodies, because they will reign with Christ forever OR they will reign with Christ for one thousand years along with the people in the first Resurrection.

Mathew 26:64

64Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Jesus was talking to the high priest.

John 14:1-4

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

-> Here Jesus talking to His Disciples, not you.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, Oct 8, 2009, at 12:15 AM

Unique-Lies :

I think this is probabably what causes a lot of your problems understanding things.

If you think about it a minute, Jesus was always actually talking to someone besides you or me almost 2000 years ago when He was manifested in the flesh. To imply that all His words to the disciples, chief priests, etc., etc., only applied to them is error.

You know better than to try that one.

Eve may have fallen for that suggestive reasoning but I think I will pass.

By no means am I calling you Satan. Rather I think he is merely working through you and using you for his gain.

wonderwhy:

First of all, President Obama is not the Anti-Christ. He will be used to usher in the One World Order.

I believe we who are alive today, will all be dead before Christ returns.

It's like you said many things have to happen before Christ returns.

Christians are taught that they will be "Raptured" up out of all the "Trials and Tribulations" and won't be here on the earth when all the "stuff hits the fan". This is not True but a Unique-Lie that has been told for centuries.

Christ does not return until the Beast takes control over the whole earth (One World Order) and takes his place on the throne and says he "IS GOD".

By this time he has killed millions of Christians who own Bibles and have refused to worship him or his image and/or didn't accept the Mark of the Beast.

Christ lets this Beast and False Prophet and Satan do whatever they want to down here on earth until the Beast claims he is God.

It is at this time that Christ returns. He returns with 144,000 Jews.(Rev 14:1 see Rev 7:4-8)

In (Rev 7:9) John says "After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

These are not people in the rapture!

In (Rev 7:13-17) an Elder explains this great multitude, which no man could number.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

These souls came out of a great tribulation. These are not people who just died of old age or were killed in a car wreck, etc., or were caught up in the clouds. These people went through a great tribulation.

Notice in verse 17, These are the people God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

The USA will play a major role in the Battle of Armageddon, because the USA is a super Power, but mainly because it will be just one country in the One World Army. All counties will have to fight together as one. No exceptions.

As far as Obama is concerned, he would never fill the bill as the Anti-Christ. He can't even do what he promised he would do before he was elected. Not much of a controlling President let alone controlling and manipulating a "one World Order".

The problem isn't with Obama. It is with Congress. Congress was created to keep the US Government within its Constitutional powers to protect the people.

F.D.Roosevelt gave himself power over congress but it was done contrary to the U.S. Constitution so it is null and void. Therefore Congress can repeal section 5a and b anytime they want to.

According to current laws, as found in 12 USC, Section 95(b), everything the President or the Secretary of the Treasury has done since March 4, 1933 is automatically approved:

"The actions, regulations, rules, licenses, orders and proclamations heretofore or hereafter taken, promulgated, made, or issued by the President of the United States or the Secretary of the Treasury since

March the 4th, 1933, pursuant to the authority conferred by Subsection (b) of Section 5 of the Act of

October 6th, 1917, as amended [12 USCS Sec. 95a], are hereby approved and confirmed. (Mar. 9, 1933, c. 1,Title 1, Sec. 1, 48 Stat. 1]".

We the people have the sovereign right to take back any power we give to the Governments or Congress, so Congress has the power to take back any powers it gives to the president or any other government agency.

It is all life threatening for anyone to interfere with the progress of the One World Order. No exceptions.

Blessed Assurance You posted:

1 Thessalonians 1

10And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

wonderwhy has asked meaningful questions that s/he wanted answers to and that is the best you can do? You are so wrapped up in judging me as a devil spreading lies that you can't take a few minutes out to give those who want and need answers, your beliefs.

Why do you not explain how all this takes place in the end times so people will know what to look for and what is going to happen next and what they should be teaching their children and grand children about the end times, the False Prophet, the Beast, Anti-Christ, Trial and Tribulation and the second coming of Christ.

Explain how "YOU THINK" all the Christians will be raptured up before all these horrific things happen and how Christ is returning to earth with all these raptured Christians when he comes to fight the kings of the earth and slay the evil doers. (1 Thessalonians 4:17) "Everyone who is "caught up in the clouds" will be with the Lord "Forever"!" So now, everyone who is "raptured up" will have to come back with the Lord to destroy the City of Babylon, defeat the kings of the earth, slay the wicked both male and female, children and old people alike.

Is that what you want to enjoy doing after you are taking up in the clouds to be with the Lord Forever?

These are just some of the truths published in the bible. God has hidden the truth from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Then explain how Christ is going to send his army of angels to cast the evil ones on the earth into furnaces of fire, leaving only the righteous people alive on earth (Matthew 13:36-43).

Who are these righteous people when You said all the Christians would be Raptured up so they won't be here to face this judgment?

You can't have it both ways. Either all the righteous are in the rapture or only a few righteous people are in the rapture, because the Lord's angels throw the evil into furnaces of fire leaving only righteous people.

And unique, always remember this.... God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

I have no appointment with the wrath. I have a mediator and advocate who stands between a perfect God and an imperfect me that defends for me while Satan and his workers argue otherwise.

The case is already decided.

Now you know why I have Peace and Joy which are fruits of His Spirit implanted to me.

idiot;

You just repeated exactly what I said. God sends his angels to weed the evil out from the good and burn them so the righteous are left standing, not in some barn somewhere, but here on earth.

You just repeated the Parable told, I Explained the Parable just as Jesus did.

"All this takes place after the great tribulation and the battle of Armageddon."

End of story. They are not taken up in the clouds but left here on earth to help with the first Resurrection.

These people (described in this Parable) are the righteous people who didn't accept the Mark of the Beast nor worship the beast nor his image, yet escaped death in the last days.

(Matthew 24:21-22

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.)

The people in the first Resurrection are described as people who don't accept the mark of the Beast nor worship him nor his image and those who were killed for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. They reigned with Christ for only a thousand years. Those who were caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air will stay with the Lord forever and ever, not for just a thousand years.

(1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.)

So that is Proof that they don't go up to meet the Lord in the air. They stay here on earth to help in the 1st Resurrection and become kings and priests to God and to Jesus (Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth). They will never die again in the second death. The second death will have no effect on them.

Blessed Assurance!

So now you refer to me as a tare. Nice shot. That does sound better than Satan or a devil, I guess. It is a far cry from being called Parkerbrothers.

I know that I know, that I know, that I know, that I know, so I am content with what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me. I have no doubts.

You will no doubt be dead in the ground and rotted like the rest of us when Christ returns so we won't be harvested either way when Christ returns.

Our judgment won't come until long after we are Resurrected.

You have judged me as a devil, a demon working for Satan and now a tare. You should be so lucky to judge me without being judged yourself by Christ. You think you are helping everyone by speaking out against me, when you just may be condemning them along with yourself. I don't ask anyone to believe what I teacher. I only ask that everyone read it for themselves and make their own decisions.

I don't speak out to save anyone nor to convert anyone nor steal anyone away from their beliefs. I only explain what I have learned, for I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Jesus said it best when he spoke out against the Pharisees and Scribes and even the Lawyers who were taught by man.

Luke 11:42-52

42"Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.

43"Woe to you Pharisees, because you love the most important seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces.

44"Woe to you, because you are like unmarked graves, which men walk over without knowing it."

45One of the experts in the law answered him, "Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us also."

46Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.

47"Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your forefathers who killed them.

48So you testify that you approve of what your forefathers did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs.

49Because of this, God in his wisdom said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.'

50Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,

51from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.

52"Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering."

They taught Traditions instead of God's Commands

Mark 7:7-9

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

I have already grasped the Parable and explained it as Jesus did for his disciples. You told it just as plainly as I did so we both understand the parable. I have no idea why you are calling me a tare nor telling me why I don't understand the parable.

I don't have a problem with nightmares. I do have some weird ones now and then, but who doesn't.

You should try teaching what you do know instead of telling everyone else they don't know what they are talking about.

Uniquelies,

Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Blessed Assurance

You sure opened a can of worms with this one!

Hebrews 5:11-14

Describes you to a tee.

All you seem to know about is the simple principles of Salvation which is milk for babes. You don't even acknowledge the good from evil so you still need to be fed milk until you can move on to adult things and feed yourself.

I am way past Salvation and the simple things taught in churches around the country.

Then in Hebrews 6:1-3

It tells us to leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, but not going back to laying the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith towards God, of the doctrine of baptisms and of laying on hands and of resurrection and of eternal judgment.

Yet you can't even agree with all these things because you don't believe in the laying on of hands and don't understand the Resurrection.

So what can you move on to talk about? You are still taking milk, because you can't seem to get pass salvation and being forgiven no matter what you do, when in fact, you are suppose to train yourself to distinguish good from evil.

Get off of the milk and read the next verses that follow Paul's teachings:

Hebrews 6:4-6 (New International Version)

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,

5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,

6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Paul tells us that "It is impossible" once you have been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, shared in the Holy Spirit, have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, and fall away or slip back into sin, your repentance is gone forever.

My teachings are Unique and do not include the simple teachings of those who need milk. You must be grown up to hear my messages and ready to eat on your own or feed yourself.

Paul had to be the author of Hebrews because of what it tells us. We are to grow up and teach things that are not taught by preachers who are feeding the people Milk like babes yet Jesus tells us that his Father has hidden the truth from the wise and prudent and revealed it to babes, so we must always be babes to learn his Word yet move on at the same time in order to learn more.

My teachings are Unique and do not include the simple teachings of those who need milk. You must be grown up to hear my messages and ready to eat on your own or feed yourself.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Oct 11, 2009, at 1:19 PM

That attitude is the primary source of your problems unique.

You will never find the Peace and Joy as long as you are under the delusion of being a teacher.

That is correct monkey. I believe it was Jerome who worked at the command of Pope Damasus to finish the Vulgate.

I too, for years have been incorrectly told that Margaret Mcdonald's vision was the first use of the word rapture.

The rapture has been taught forever. John Darby did not invent it. He only used Mcdonald's vision to explain the pretribulation rapture theory, not the rapture itself.

Only the timing of the rapture has ever been seriously challenged.

I agree.

I think the sheep will know the shepherd.

The goats may be deceived but the sheep should go to their Good Shepherd.

If you read the Bible from a Jewish perspective and understand the festivals and God's calendar, not man's you will see that Jesus taught on the rapture all through the Bible.

Liveforlight;

Here is your answer:

Jesus is saying that when he returns he will defeat the kings of the earth and their armies and slay the evil doers as well and all the fowl of the earth (eagles in some verses) will eat all of the dead bodies.

When Jesus says He is returning to clean up the earth of all evil that is what he means.

The Book of Revelation 19:17-21

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

More directly to the point; Jesus said where the carcase or body is (singular) there the eagles or vultures will gather (a specific fowl). Again, the words used in the translations vary. Why?

I think he was speaking directly about a specific body (live or dead???) and a specific type of fowl.

The scriptures in Rev. refer to a plurality of bodies and all fowl.

Maybe I'm dense, but in Lk 17 the disciples ask specifically as to where the missing people that Jesus had just mentioned were taken. The conversation had went from missing (taken) people to bodies and vultures.

So you are saying the missing people are being taken where? They are dead or they are the vultures?

In the last days two will be... one will be taken and the other left.

Christians want to believe it is saying that the one who is taken is raptured up, when it is saying that the one who is taken is killed.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, Oct 15, 2009, at 12:18 PM

Unique,

You are the only person I have ever heard claim that it is saying that. I guess that makes you unique?

What is left to come?

The wrath is.

And who is appointed to the wrath?

It's not the saved.

It is the lost.

The saved is taken up and the lost are left to the wrath to come.

I will share with you my thoughts on this,

Jesus describes a series of events and signs that will take place prior to the end. At the end of this discourse, he says where the body (carcass) is the eagles (vultures) will gather.

One vulture (sign) by itself doesn't mean much, example: nation rises against nation, that has been happening repeatedly for centuries.

But, when you see all the signs (a lot of vultures) at once then there is a dead body directly underneath. Meaning, that it is time. This is one possible explanation that makes sense to me.

1 Cor:15 says we will be raptured/changed at the

last trump. Unless I missed some trumps somwhere, that would be the seventh one as described in REV.

There are some pretty horendous things that happen prior to that. God shortens the days so the elect will survive however.

I believe the true christians will suffer greatly during this time. Not at the hand of God, but at the hand of his/our enemies who cannot bare to hear the truth. Issues such as abortion and homosexuality will incite violence in Satan's children as they attempt to grow his seed.

Now the questionable parts(for me anyway).

Jesus uses the word "taken" in the text about the people not "called". This would indicate to me that they have no choice. So, who is doing the taking?

Only in Luke (not the other gospels that I can find) is he asked "where". Not "why", "who", "how", he had already answered "what" would be taken. Also, he is not saying a small percentage of people here. He is saying 50% will be "taken". So, who is taking them? Why? How?

Liveforlight,

Only in Luke (not the other gospels that I can find) is he asked "where". Not "why", "who", "how", he had already answered "what" would be taken. Also, he is not saying a small percentage of people here. He is saying 50% will be "taken". So, who is taking them? Why? How?

You have already answered this Question yourself earlier.

50% are Tares and 50% are the Wheat or the Christians. Those who are taken are the Tares. They are throw into the firey funaces, leaving the Christians or the Wheat.

What happens to the Wheat or the Christians after that...Common sense will tell you that if 50% of the world population was Tares and they have been "TAKEN" to the burn pile to be burned, that only leaves the Christian people here on earth.

Now (Blessed A) wants us to believe all the christians left the earth in a rapture, so there would only be the 144,000 Jews and the Tares left on earth when Christ returns to harvest His Wheat (the Christian people).

The bible tells us that Christ sends his angels out to gather the tares and burn them but to leave the Wheat until the Tares are gathered up and burned.

When Christ sets foot on earth we will know that if there was a rapture, it has already taken place by then, so everyone standing there looking up at Jesus is going to be scared because they will know they weren't good enough to be in the rapture. SO will they be one of the 144,000 Jews or a sinner like BA contends, which is all that is left on earth when Christ finally arrives.

The Beast and the Anti-Christ will be doing a lot of Killing too, so we have to consider the fact that it may be the beast and the Anti-Christ that is doing the Taking also.

The Bible says that the Beast will be in complete control of the people to the point that everyone must have the mark of the beast to buy or sell and must worship the Beast, so... take your pick.

Remember this, the False Prophet will do miracles in the presence of the Beast making everyone think the Beast is God. Even God's elect could be fooled if Christ doesn't return sooner than planned. In that case most people will probably be taken to a prison somewhere. FYI all the military bases we had in the USA have mostly been turned into or will be turned into a prison. That gives us an idea how many people will be imprisoned in the future by the Beast and Anti-Christ, not to mention how many will be killed.

Where they are Taken isn't as important as who is doing the Taking and why, so Christ doesn't tell us where they will be Taken. It didn't concern the disciples at that time so why tell them where. They would more than likely be killed because those whose names are not in the book of life will go into the lake of fire.

The only thing with that theory is that every one is Resurrected after this and allowed to live on earth again while Satan tries to deceive more to follow him again.

This being the case, I don't think they will go into the Lake of Fire until after they are judged.

BA,

I don't see you giving any explanation other than arguing my answers.

You do a great job of convincing people you only know how to get the last word, but don't answer anything that would help anyone understand anything.

You want everyone to believe that when Jesus returns there will only be 144,000 Jews and all the evil doers. That must be some welcoming site for Jesus to return to. I don't see 144,000 Jews being the only righteous people left here on earth when Christ returns. Especially when the bible tells us they are redeemed from the earth as firstfruits unto God, meaning the first people to Go to Heaven and be with God and Jesus.

(Matthew 13:38-43)

38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,

39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40 "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.

41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.

42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Just how hard is that to understand?

Liveforlight,

You posted: ...By this logic, the "taken" people are neither dead nor raptured at this point. Merely gathered which may be "taken" (no choice) into military service. This is after the sixth bowl. Armegeddon is yet to come.

You could be right in this assumption but remember, these soldiers are gathering to fight against Christ.

Logically, this is very stupid on the part of the world. The Beast would force anyone of age to join the armies against Christ so they would be taken into the service, They would be joining a One World Army that is going to fight against an army of angels that are immortal and can not be defeated. How stupid is that? So either way, they will be killed by Christ and his angels and their bodies eaten by the fowls.

(Revelation 19:17-21)

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Different scenarios, but the same end results. Killed and eaten by the fowls of the earth.

Different scenarios, but the same end results.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Sat, Oct 17, 2009, at 1:26 AM

I don't think there is any question to the end result.

I think all the questions come about from the timing of the the events leading up to the end.

The different scenerios you mention come about when you take the order John gave the events and rearrange them into a scenerio that fits your unique story you are telling.

There is probably a mathematical equation that would solve how many scenerios you can come up with when you take the seven seals, the seven trumpets and the seven bowls and arrange them out of order in every different possible combination. If I'm not wrong I think it would be (7 x 7) x (7 x 7)?

Irregardles of the equation I hope you can see how different scenerios can be created by taking the multitude of variables and rearranging them.

the Blessed Assurance guy,

You Posted: Though you only changed things a wee bit, it is enough to cause deception. As I hope you can now see the tares are gathered to be burned but the the wheat is gathered into His barn first. Only the tares and the protected 144,000 are left and only the tares suffer the burning and torments.

You quoted verses 14-16, verse 16 saying the earth was reaped.

Jesus who was sitting on the cloud reaped the wicked off the earth. I say this because another angel reaps the harvest of the grapes that are full.

If you would have read further into verses Rev 14:17-20 you would have read of another angel who harvested the Grapes on the vines. So Jesus reaped the wicked first then the good.

The above verses are John's visions.

Below is Jesus' personal words as Matthew Quotes them.

-> The Parable of the Weeds Explained by Jesus Christ himself to his disciples.

Matthew 13:36-43

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

->> 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

->> 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

->>> 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

->>> 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

->>>> 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Here Jesus explains it very simple for anyone to read and understand the parable.

If as according to your unique theory the wheat is left on earth after the tares are burned, what would be the purpose of the two prophets return. The two prophets would be welcomed by the righteous. It does not sound like a welcoming home party to me when I read about them.

Revelation 11:10

The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

These two prophets don't preach the lies that are taught today or the inhabitants of the earth would not be tormented and upset.

These two Witnesses lived and died before the seventh trumpet sounded, or before Christ returned to slay the wicked.

If you were following John's writings, you would know that these two Witnesses were in the tribulation period of the Beast and the Anti-Christ. People are forced to live a life according to the Beast and his image. The inhabitants of the earth have been brainwashed to worship the beast and forced to accept his mark so life can go on as usually.

The two Witnesses are preaching that everyone will be thrown into the lake of fire if they accept the mark of the beast but the inhabitants of the earth don't want to hear this. - Just like Today!

You are reading John's writings and ignoring Matthew's writing where Jesus himself explains his return and reaping of the earth in a simple way so his Disciples and the whole world would understand it.

For just a minute, let's just assume You are right and that Jesus does bundle the people up to be burned, then harvests the righteous people, then goes back and burns the evil people after he harvested the good people.

How would he bundle people to be burned and when would he come back and burn them? And where are the 144,000 Jews you said would be left here on earth with these tares.

What would the good people do when they watch these people being all bundled up in bundles to be burned. Would they step in and try to help them like the good Samaritan they are or just walk on by?

uniquelies,

This is blog.

It is not an electronic notebook for you to have personal messages and conversations on.

It seems you even have this all mixed up.

Get over yourself.

You have no secret gnostic knowledge that you have forever claimed.

You are however free to blog on here as long as you do not violate the TOS.

Actually Unique_Lies. I did ask for other comments as shown below on my previous post:

Thanks Unique_Lies for your view.

I don't particularly see it that way. I think he was speaking a little more directly to the question the disciples asked when they asked where the missing people were being taken.

I would like to here others comment on this.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Wed, Oct 14, 2009, at 3:23 PM

I am thankful for everyone that posts about the scripture and the Lord. Even if I don't agree there is no better subject in the universe.

.....and all you Christians.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 12:16 AM

Nothing wrong with being one of them things.

My opinion comes from the Holy Spirit and is not mine alone. To change it would be Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

I have said all that I need to say. There is nothing to add. I would only be repeating myself and you know how to read the archives.

I hope everyone is here to hear what the two Witnesses have to say when their time comes.

I won't be here unless the Beast begins his reign in the year 2012, and not even positive I'll be here then.

Just remember this, everyone of you are on your own. When Christ comes face to face with you, it is just you and Christ. There will be no Preacher standing by your side to answer for you or to blame for what you learned or didn't learn.

Keep reading the bible and the Holy Spirit will come in and you will know the truth and the truth will set you free!

You should read out of the oldest JK version you can find, because the latest versions have already been seeded with false translations.

May God Bless all of you and may God's will follow you all the days of your life. This one and the next one after the thousand years.

Just remember this, everyone of you are on your own. When Christ comes face to face with you, it is just you and Christ.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Oct 18, 2009, at 4:08 PM

Thanks Unique_Lies

I would only change the "you" to "we" for we are all on our own without Christ and must work out our salvation in fear and trembling.

I for one, appreciate your views and devotion to the study of the scriptures. I find, that at times, I can be just as arrogant as the next know-it-all and need to do prayerful evaluations constantly to stay in tune with the holy spirit and the word.

Somehow, I thought Blessed_Assurance was a woman but you say "this guy" so I must be mistaken. My humble apologies to both of you for whatever mistakes a have made.

If we believe and know we are right with God then we can expect some conflict. After all, we may be members of the same body but some of us are hands and some are....... other parts -:) to each his own, but don't stop being the part you were made to be.

HE WILL FORGIVE US OUR TRESPASSES AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST US.

THE KINGDOM IS GOD'S, AND THE POWER, AND THE GLORY, FOREVER,

AMEN!

Liveforlight,

Sorry if I have come across as arrogant in any way. I do have a way of defending the Good News vigorously that can appear as arrogant on a computer screen. My other half reads it and just cocks his head sideways sometimes.

I have a hard time just sitting still and letting anyone try to twist it into Bad News.

For any Christian the coming of Christ should be Good News. I know I will run toward Him instead of away from Him.

I hope you anticipate it likewise with peace and joy. I pray daily that uniquelies will come to anticipate it also.

When Jesus appeared both times to the disiples he found them in fear and dread behind closed doors they were afraid to open. Loving and caringly the first words out of His mouth were "peace". I sincerely believe that is what He wants for us to joyfully have abundantly.

For any Christian the coming of Christ should be Good News. I know I will run toward Him instead of away from Him.

Posted by Blessed Assurance on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 7:12 PM

You are right. Christ coming was, and is, good news. His return, although probably a dark and painful day for all of us will be a happy event. Dark and painful, because I will miss a lot of people I love if they are not his (who knows maybe we all will be)but happy and glorious because of his presence.

Unique_Lies and I have some different views on abortion. I believe that the US laws should be in line with scripture and that abortion is not in line with scripture.

I never said it should be illegal as a medical practice which I think Unique thought I was, however we should not encourage it by allowing our government to force those of us against it to pay for it with our taxs. Help should be for the baby (and mother) that is born, not for the one who kills it.

I sometimes fail to stay focused on the point I am trying to make.

I guess we kinda got side tracked. Anyway, I love you "guys" and am glad to know there are others like me that enjoy studying and, hopefully, I will be able to overcome my own arrogance.

There was only one who WAS always right and we killed him for it or rather, he died for us. His choice, not ours. Our fault, not his. His will, not mine.

PEACE and JOY to all.

My other half reads it and just cocks his head sideways sometimes.

-- Posted by Blessed Assurance on Mon, Oct 19, 2009, at 7:12 PM

Wow, parkerbros. When did you come out of the closet?

Blessed Assurance,

You are not learning from your bible. You are learning what Parkerbrothers and Michaelbell are teaching.

Jesus told us that his father has hidden the truth from the world.

The bible tells us to stop drinking baby's milk (the elementary teachings of the churches) and feed ourselves meat (learn for ourselves).

All you want to talk about is salvation and love and peace which are the first things we learn in our walk with Christ. Move on and start eating some meat, then you can teach with authority. What you keep teaching is what is taught in churches, why go other and other it again and again when anyone can get milk fed at church. Everyone on these blogs knows all about salvation, love and peace or they don't want to know or they don't go to a church.

1 John 4:18

There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Love will take away all fear, but you must Fear God!

Genesis 22:12; Genesis 42:18; Exodus 18:21; Job 1:9; Psalm 66:16; Ecclesiastes 8:13; Ecclesiastes 12:13; Isaiah 8:11; Luke 1:50; Luke 12:5; Luke 18:4; Luke 23:40; 1 Peter 2:17 and Revelation 14:7; Revelation 19:5.

Now, once again, I want to know why preachers teach that they will be in the rapture with the 144,000 when YOU say these 144,000 will remain on the earth.

I also want to know why preachers teach that they will reign with Christ for a thousand years when they are raptured up.

Are you meat fed enough to answer those two (2) Questions?

As far as Abortions and Homosexuals go... How is it hurting you? These people chose the way they wanted to go. It is up to God to judge them not us. And your tax money doesn't pay one red cent for these abortions or for smokers' operations, etc..

You tax money doesn't even cover the interest that the U.S. Government has borrowed from the Ant-Christ.

Our U.S. Government has made all the citizens a co-signer in all these money transactions so when the debt is called in the U.S. Government will be able to hand over YOUR Home, Property, and everything you own to pay their debt.

This would be the easiest way to start the One World Order. The people would have nothing and have to accept the mark of the beast to stay in their homes and to buy and sell anything, etc..

Your problems should be on things like what are you going to do when the Anti-Christ gets started.

I know you love God and you will be protected, but I also know you don't have the faith to survive if you were thrown into a fire or a den of lions.

Should those days not be shortened even his elect would be deceived.

Now, once again, I want to know why preachers teach that they will be in the rapture with the 144,000 when YOU say these 144,000 will remain on the earth.

I also want to know why preachers teach that they will reign with Christ for a thousand years when they are raptured up.

Are you meat fed enough to answer those two (2) Questions?

Posted by Unique-Lies on Wed, Oct 21, 2009, at 9:41 AM

Unique-Lies,

I thought I had answered those before with my opinion but let's try again.

And one at a time.

#1 - As I stated previously, I have not personally heard preachers say that the 144,000 are in "the rapture" so I have no idea if they have said it let alone why they might say it. I would speculate to say that if they have said it they must believe it. If they said it I would recommend you asking them why they believe it. I can only tell you what I believe.

#2 - That question also would be better asked of the ones that you have heard it from. I can't give you a reason someone else says and/or believes as they do. I can tell you what I believe personally and that is to be absent of this body is to be present with the Lord. I believe that presence will be eternal and unbroken.

Maybe I'm not understanding the questions as you want me to but I am trying to understand you.

Your problems should be on things like what are you going to do when the Anti-Christ gets started.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Wed, Oct 21, 2009, at 9:41 AM

Unique-Lies,

A few thousand years late to start worrying about the start.

Blessed Assurance,

Matthew 17:20 (King James Version)

20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

If you had the faith as a grain of mustard seed you could do anything today. You could even change the world. I don't think you have that much faith! I don't think anyone around here does. I know I don't. Surprise me.

-> The worst they could do is take me out of this tent of flesh and send me to his presence. Not a bad place to be.

If you will be going to heaven when you die, God will have to cast you out if you are going to meet Jesus in the clouds in your famous Rapture.

1 Thessalonians 4:15

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Here Paul tells us that those who are dead are actually sleeping.

1 Thessalonians 4:16

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Paul says the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with loud noises and those who are dead (asleep) shall rise FIRST.

He does not say that these who are dead in Christ comes with Jesus when he returns. They are raised from their sleep and caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

So you nor anyone else goes to heaven when they die. You sleep in your grave and know nothing and do nothing until you are resurrected or caught up in the clouds when Christ returns.

Your tent of flesh will change after Christ Judges you and send you to the new city of Jerusalem.

I posted: Your problems should be on things like what are you going to do when the Anti-Christ gets started.

I should have said the Beast and the false prophet. Their crimes against mankind will make Abortion and Homosexuality a thing of the past.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Of course we fear God. Only a fool would have no fear of the one who can cast them in hell.

The point is there is no fear in love. Fear has to do with punishment. If you have complete love as instructed then you will always be in his will because loving him an obeying is his will.

There will be those who wish for death, maybe because they don't want to fight against the beast.

Why you worship God? Is it out of fear of death and hell or because you love him?

Regarding death and sleep; Jesus spoke of the rich man and Lazarus. One went to Abraham bosom the other went to hell. Perhaps some sleep and some don't. I think it is really irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. If I sleep in the Lord great! If I go directly to Abraham's bossom great!

Blessed Assurance,

You posted: Quite naturally I disagree with your soul sleep idea.

Actually it isn't my idea. It is God's plan and He explains it to us all over the bible, Old Testament and New Testament.

It is no secret, it has just been hidden from the people who don't read the bible.

The best example is in the bible here (John 11:1-16) and is worth reading:

The Dead Know Nothing and Do Nothing

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20

19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Daniel 12:2

2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Do a search on the word sleep and slept and read all the proof you want to that says we sleep when we die.

Ecclesiastes 12:7

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

When we die, it is the Holy Spirit that returns to God because God gave it to us and the Holy Spirit IS God, so it would return to heaven.

-> You also asked: Also in your above post you only quoted verses 15 and 16 of 1 Thessalonians 4 in trying to make a point. Below I posted a few verses before those and a few after them. What is your opinion on verse 14 and how do you see it agreeing with and supporting your previous post?

1 Thessalonians 4:15 and 16 pretty much summarize it all. However for your benefit let me explain them all;

Verse 13: Paul tells the Thessalonians that he didn't want them to be ignorant about the dead and feel sorry for them, even thou others have no hope.

Verse 14: Paul told them if Jesus died and rose again so would those people who were dead and believe in Christ and God would bring them with him.

Verses 15: Paul tells them that we that are alive and remain on earth until the coming of the Lord can not prevent those who are dead from joining Christ in the air "FIRST". SO these who have died, will actually meet Jesus in the clouds before those who are alive and remain. It will look like they came with the Lord, but they are to meet Jesus prior to those who are alive.

Verse 16: the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, the voice of the archangel and with the Trump of God... and the dead in Christ (only the dead who are Born again and abide in his word) will rise first and go straight up into the clouds before those who are alive.

Then in verse 17: Paul says "we which are alive and remain" shall be caught up together with them (the dead who were raised first into the clouds), to meet the Lord in the air. AND... these souls will reign with the Lord forever.

You want me to believe that Billions and Billions and Billions of Billions of people will be returning with Christ when he returns. The world could not hold all the people who have lived on this earth since the beginning of this earth age.

You posted: Regarding death and sleep; Jesus spoke of the rich man and Lazarus. One went to Abraham bosom the other went to hell. Perhaps some sleep and some don't. I think it is really irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. If I sleep in the Lord great! If I go directly to Abraham's bossom great!

Jesus was telling a parable that the people would understand, but in reality it never happened nor could. When Jesus came along, people already had their beliefs in Hell and Heaven and knew the evil went to hell and the good went to heaven.

I understand that it was the Jews who came up with the scenic gorge that divided hell from the place where the good went. Jesus just used their interpretation of this hell and place where the good people go. There was no word of a Paradise existing until Jesus was on the cross, so it would not have been called paradise.

Since we all sleep when we die, we won't know where we go when we die. It won't matter, because we know nothing and do nothing when we die. I thought at first only the born again sleep and the sinners go to hell, but the bible says some will wake up to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt, so I have to believe that all souls sleep when we die.

You want me to believe that Billions and Billions and Billions of Billions of people will be returning with Christ when he returns. The world could not hold all the people who have lived on this earth since the beginning of this earth age.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, Oct 22, 2009, at 11:51 PM

Sounds a lot like the multitude no man could number that John was shown in heaven at the opening of the sixth seal.

Irregardless you never reconciled 1 Thessalonians 4:14 with your theory. You have basically just said in essence to ignore verse 14 so your unique theory will work for you.

Since we all sleep when we die, we won't know where we go when we die. It won't matter, because we know nothing and do nothing when we die. I thought at first only the born again sleep and the sinners go to hell, but the bible says some will wake up to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt, so I have to believe that all souls sleep when we die.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, Oct 22, 2009, at 11:51 PM

You have to ignore a lot of scripture to make a few verses support your theory.

Even these few verses you use to create your theory primarily come from one Book of the Old Testament and much more study is needed to determine the writers meaning of the words that have been translated into the English words sleep, wake, dead, etc., etc.

A good example to look at would be when you quoted:

"Do a search on the word sleep and slept and read all the proof you want to that says we sleep when we die"

Many times, even today, sleep and die are spoken as one and the same in communication.

Verse 16: the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, the voice of the archangel and with the Trump of God... and the dead in Christ (only the dead who are Born again and abide in his word) will rise first and go straight up into the clouds before those who are alive.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, Oct 22, 2009, at 11:51 PM

So today you are saying you understand about the clouds?

Unique-Lies,

You still having trouble reconciling 1 Thessalonians 4 verse 14 with your unique theory I see.

I was glad though to see you acknowledge the rapture (caught up) into the cloud message Paul was "comforting" the Thessalonians with. I hope you were comforted with it like the Thessalonians, myself and countless others have been over the centuries once we grasp it. That's some good news.

We can discuss it more when you get to feeling better and post again.

Your Paranoia can be relieved to some extent with bed rest. Unless of coarse you are having nightmares about Parkerbrothers explaining the Good News to you while you sleep also.

Why does the Good News bother you much?

Why are you bothered by others who have this Peace and Joy?

Do you want this Peace and Joy? It's yours for the taking.

I still think I will stay with John's writings of his revelation.

Amazing how you like to write things off as just being a parable, dream or vision when it disputes your theory.

Convenient though, isn't it?

PLEASE, Tell me Blessed Assurance, What are all these bible scriptures saying all over the bible about people sleeping with their fathers or just sleeping in their graves?

Jesus waited two more days to make sure Lazarus was dead, then told his disciples that Lazarus was sleeping and then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead, and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him."

Lazarus was dead yet Jesus told his disciples that Lazarus was sleeping and he was going to wake him.

It appears to everyone who reads the scriptures that you have to ignore a lot of scripture to make a few verses support your theory.

Jeremiah wrote 1 & 2 Kings and spoke of the kings sleeping with their fathers when they died.

Ezra wrote 1 & 2 Chronicles that has several scriptures stating that people slept when they died.

Moses wrote the book of Job speaking of Job saying Had he died at birth, he would now be at peace. He would be asleep and at rest. Job says "for now shall I sleep in the dust..." and also "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep."

In Psalms "Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death; and "The stouthearted were plundered; They have sunk into their sleep; Mostly written by David.

Jeremiah wrote: But while they are aroused, I will set out a feast for them and make them drunk, so that they shout with laughter-- then sleep forever and not awake," declares the LORD.

Jeremiah also wrote: And I will make drunk her princes, and her wise men, her captains, and her rulers, and her mighty men: and they shall sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.

Daniel spoke of death as sleeping.

In Matthew Jesus said "Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn." They laughed because she was dead. When Jesus died on the cross, the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose.

In Mark, Jesus said unto them "Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth."

In the Book of Luke Jesus said "Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth."

In the Book of John Jesus raises Lazarus from his sleep.

Luke tells us in Acts "For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:"

In 1 Corinthians Paul speaks of the dead as sleeping.

Paul teaches in 1 Thessalonians that whose who sleep are dead and whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

These are just some of the scriptures that tell us when we die we sleep.

How can you argue with all those scriptures, Parkerbrothers?

You are ignoring all these and many more scriptures when you say man does not sleep when he dies, but goes straight into heaven.

You believe all Christians go to heaven when they die, yet you say the 144,000 Jews who are redeemed from the earth are left down here on earth with all the sinners.

Do you think Paul taught that to the Thessalonians to make them happy and comfort them?

If all the dead Christians go to heaven how can they be resurrected and raised up into the clouds to meet Jesus in the air? They are already with Jesus.

Before you open your mouth and put your foot into it... Paul tells everyone, that all the dead who are sleeping will be raised first into the clouds. How can they be raised up into the clouds when they were with God in heaven. Paul is talking about the dead people who are buried in the ground.

-> You also posted: Amazing how you like to write things off as just being a parable, dream or vision when it disputes your theory.

Let's take the parable in the Book of Luke where Jesus tells us about the rich man and Lazarus.

As we read this parable we can actually visualize a rich man in Hell but the beggar is across the gorge from this hell and in the bosom of Abraham.

If we really study this parable it would appear that this is Hell and Paradise.

WRONG!

First of all, no one could possibly go to heaven until Jesus was crucified and risen from the dead. Jesus hadn't died yet when he was telling this parable so this isn't a paradise that the good people go to. Also because Jesus wasn't crucified yet, Jesus had not told the thief on the cross that he would be in paradise with him that afternoon, so it couldn't be a paradise because the word "paradise" wasn't spoken yet. Jesus used the words "bosom of Abraham" to represent a good wholesome resting place.

Now Parkerbrothers, if dead Christians go to heaven when they die, why wouldn't Jesus just say that the poor beggar and all good believers would go to heaven instead of the center of the earth.

Jesus was always speaking of people going to heaven if they lived right and having eternal life, and putting treasures up in heaven for the future, but he was speaking of after the battle of Armageddon and the second death.

Can you see just how vivid that parable was as Jesus spoke it? It was as if you were standing on the edge of hell and paradise watching the poor man, Lazarus, go to the bosom of Abraham while the rich man was sent to the other side of the gorge between the two places. You could almost see the sinners begging for someone to go topside and tell their families about hell.

If you say you believe this parable was a true event or that these people did do as Jesus said they did or went where he said they went, then you have to admit that the good Christians don't go to heaven when they die, but to this place across the gorge from Hell until they are raised in the first resurrection.

Hey, this was just a parable that could not have happened as Jesus explained it to the people, yet it seemed so very real. Now John had a vision that was even more believable, because Jesus sent an angel to explain it all to John.

Blessed A,

You ran your mouth to try to put me down, but you can say nothing that can prove anything differently than what I teach.

I quoted scriptures to back up what I teach, so anyone and everyone can read them themselves, but you quote archives of your one sided misunderstandings that have nothing to do with scriptures or learning the truth.

You can not convince me that I am wrong when you can not show me scriptures that prove the scriptures I quote as being wrong.

You are the one who ignores scriptures and lives by three or four scriptures that speak about good news.

You speak only of me spreading the bad news but can't explain how these scriptures prove your good news accurate.

You spend more time reading nonsense in the archives than you do his word.

God has more things hidden in the bible than you will ever find, because you only want to read and hear the good news.

The things I tell you came from the mouths of John and Paul as well as many of the other authors of the bible and you believe them not. That doesn't sound like you understand the good news to me.

It's all good news. Even what sounds like bad news is good news if it comes from the bible because God had all of it put in the bible. The bible doesn't just consist of Forgiveness, Love and Peace. It contains stories of hatred, greed, violence, slavery, sex, prostitution, sodomy, murder, conspiracies, rape, incest, wars, torture, imprisonments, Fraud, trickery, idol worshiping, worshiping other gods and religions, anti-Christs, false prophets and the beast and the horror of the last days and tribulation. Jesus even revealed the torment and torture He would bring on the people in the last days so don't preach to me about everything has to be the good news or it comes from the devil.

The Book of Revelation is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. It is God giving Jesus the authority to let the angels explain the Revelation of Jesus Christ to John.

The Book of Revelation is a fantastic Book and reveals the future to us if we read it. Not all things are clear to us yet, but more and more people are learning from it.

The Book of Revelation is just as much a Book of Good News as the other Books in the bible. By learning what is to come we can understand better when something is taking place that we should know about. If we are God's children then He says we have nothing to fear, because we have the faith to survive what comes out of revelations. Many Jews came out of the Holocaust alive even though they went through hell. Same holds true with many disasters. Those who believe have a better chance of survival.

Americans say this country should turn back to God to save our country and the people in it, but that won't happen because history is already written.

Our country is going to a one world order and the anti-Christ. Our leaders won't allow God in our schools, government buildings and on public streets, yet when a disaster happens "Oh My God" is the first thing out of their mouths and everyone starts praying. They should have been praying all along.

Uniquelies,

I have never not acknowledged that you use scripture in making your points. Actually my complaints have been about your frequent misuse of scripture to support what you have claimed as secret knowledge for your theories.

Furthermore I am quite content on letting the end unfold however God has chosen to let it unfold. It will be what it will be.

I think time could be better spent spreading the Good News and opening the light for others to see also.

Nothing could be better than exposing new ground to light and seeing a young tree sprout out of the ground and later watching it bear the fruits of the spirit of which love, peace and joy are part of.

Dread, misery, and bondage are not "fruits of the spirit".

Everyone should check under the limbs of their own tree and see what fruits lie under them. If I find any bad fruit under mine today I am getting the pruners out and trim those branches off so the good fruit bear even better.

Spread the Light of the Good News and let it produce Peace and Joy.

Remember Jesus found his diciples in fear and dread behind closed doors after the resurrection. The first words he spoke to them was Peace.

Once they understood this they went on to face even their earthly deaths with Peace and Joy

Jesus said we are not of this world so we are not suppose to get involved with worldly problems, matters or sins nor the worldly sinners. We are not suppose to change anything in the world because it will entangle us into it.

We are to live in his word and wait patiently for his return, keeping ourselves pure as possible.

That doesn't mean we should be ignorant of the things to come. We must know the truth so we can be set free from the ignorance of what the world is doing and how it will accomplish these things.

God told Daniel to seal up his writing and not disclose it. It was meant for the end times, just as revelations pertains to the last days.

Does that mean you should tear the pages of Daniel and Revelation out of the bible? Some theologians believe just that. They think the Book of Revelation doesn't belong in the bible and are seriously contemplating having it banded.

-> Liveforlight; In our country we the people are the sovereignty, not the Government, nor the State, but the people here would rather do away with the constitution than exercise their God given rights.

It is by the United States Constitution that we even have a prayer of changing the Governments in our country, but not when the people don't know what their government is doing to them.

The bible says in the last generation, the good will remain good and the evil will remain evil and that is just how it is today.

-> You posted: It is not our leaders fault that you and I allow them to press upon us evil laws and ungodly teachings. It is ours.

Our Congress, the Legislative Branch of Government, has created what is known as the "COLOR OF LAW". Then the State Legislators picked up on it and done the same for State Laws. We are tried on what appears to be laws however, are not lawful laws, but the color of law. How do you defend yourself from the legislated "color of law"?

Judicial Branch of Government is divided into two different court systems. One for the "Law of the Land" which is Constitutional law which no one wants to know about and the "color of law" which all lawyers and police are taught. They don't know the first thing or care about your constitutional rights, even though they took an oath to uphold and protect our U.S. Constitution.

Yes we should be gathering and learning more. We make up the body of Christ. However, it has always been said that you don't talk to anyone about politics or religion. Don't ask me why because I do both.

Dear Lord may you find me faithful, living life as you meant - not as I please, but following the path you desire me to take. Whether I'm here for one more second, one more decade, whatever time is left find me FAITHFUL to you!

-- Posted by bkpow on Tue, Oct 27, 2009, at 9:08 PM

Sometimes a lot can be said with a few words. Good post.

Liveforlight,

Jesus didn't come here and change the world. He added Salvation for those who would believe him. The world is still the same. A world who hates Jesus. That hasn't changed at all.

John 18:36

Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

Romans 12:2

Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.

When a person is born again, his body and mind is cleansed and God lives within him. He is no longer of this world but has ben transformed by the renewing of his mind. If he willfully sins or gets entangled in the world again, God leaves that tent of flesh and that person is no longer forgiven of their sins.

(Hebrews 6:4-6 (New Living Translation))

4 For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened--those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit,

5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come--

6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame

Matthew 12:43-45 (New Living Translation)

43 "When an evil spirit leaves a person, it goes into the desert, seeking rest but finding none.

44 Then it says, 'I will return to the person I came from.' So it returns and finds its former home empty, swept, and in order.

45 Then the spirit finds seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they all enter the person and live there. And so that person is worse off than before. That will be the experience of this evil generation."

-> You posted: What is the first step? Don't say it can't be done. Because the Lord has said all things are possible.

The first thing you would have to do is take our congress to court and bring charges of violation or oath of office, sue them for selling the United States Citizens to the One World Order, (or the rich bankers).

Congress has borrowed money to the point that it can never be paid back "EVER". They have used the American people (Their Jobs, income, homes and all property) as collateral for their spending sprees over the century, since Pres, Franklyn D. Roosevelt included the people as the enemy.

The three branches of Government have been taught that "They are the Sovereignty" so no one has the jurisdiction to take them to court, as far as the courts believe. However, we the people have sovereignty over congress by means of the U.S. Constitution.

They must be sued for allowing previous Congresses to trade away our rights and giving the President power to do anything he wants to without the consent of congress (Trading with the enemy act of 1917 as amended March 9, 1933). Make Congress appeal the 5th Section back like it was, removing all such power from all presidents.

The presidential Proclamations 2038, 2039 and 2040 giving the president or the secretary of the U.S. the power to confiscate anything we own by any government agency they choose to. Things like; Our vehicles, gasoline, generators, kerosene, homes, trailers, utilities, etc.. Anything they want or need including your groceries or food in your home or any cash you have.

Congress signed these bills without ever reading them because of the urgency.

A blatant Violation of the U. S. Constitution. These things are contrary to and inconsistent with the U.S. Constitution, so THEY ARE NULL AND VOID, but they are still used against the people.

The money it would take to bring all Congressmen and senators and Legislators current and past to trial, would be astronomical for anyone to assume.

There are 435 members in the House Of Representatives and there are 86 men in the Senate and 14 women or 100 senators.

That would be 535 members you would have to take to court, But WAIT! You would have to find all the past Congressmen who actually did the past crimes. Just sending a letter to all these congressmen/women would cost over $235.00 and that is for a two or three page letter.

You would have to send it Registered Mail to even get it to these

destinations and in their hands, and that isn't even a guarantee that they would receive it.

Of course, if you were going to take them to court you would have to send them PAGE AFTER PAGE OF LEGAL PAPERS (discovery), just to let them know you were bringing them up on charges. Then you would have to answer every rebuttal of each one, which could take years and endless money.

If the courts won't back you up, you could wind up in prison. Who is going to take that chance with their life savings? If anyone interferes with congress while they are in session, they could face criminal charges themselves.

Presidents Lincoln and Kennedy were assassinated for trying to stand up for our country and do what was the right thing to do, and the people don't even know what they were trying to do to stop the evil in this country.

The government has convinced the American people that the assassinations were done by some weird or crazy person and their family or friends.

The Government covers up their crimes and blame them on the people or a conspiracy against the gov. It uses Gov. agencies or employees to eliminate the sources.

Nothing is impossible if you have the faith the size of a mustard seed... However I only see two people doing the impossible and they are not doing God's will.

Liveforlight,

Now, if you read my hypothetical solution, you will see that no Christian, nor anyone else in their right mind, would nor could go to these lengths to bring this county around to a Christian, God Loving nation under the constitution like it was years ago. I really don't think it can be done, We are to pray for our nation and leaders.

The persons who done most of the damage are dead and gone and could not be punished today. So this is just a good example of why Christians are not suppose to get involved with worldly problems.

The world will continue on as usual until we become a One World Order, which the Anti-Christ and the Beast will rule as it has been prophesied 2,000 years ago.

Our job is to witness to those who will listen and invite them to a church so they can learn the word of God. After they have started learning the word of God they have to start feeding themselves meat.

The truth will set you free, so it pays to know what is going on around you in the world, but don't get wrapped up in it. We must live according to the will of God, but also know what the abomination of desolation is, so we can recognize it and be ready for it when it happens. (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Well said Liveforlight.

I am moved and will be back online next week, be prepared for more from the Crossroads!

People move about every 10 years, so family members and friend may not be buried in the same cemetery or even city or state.

When each person is raised up out of his/her grave or cremation etc., they may not be with their friends and family. They may be strangers among the people who are raised with them. You will have no way of getting in touch with them as the world has changed and nothing looks the same.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, Oct 30, 2009, at 12:30 PM

Normal body temperature is 98.6 Farenheit in case you are wondering.

Unique-Lies,

The Good News is no fantasy world.

May you find the Peace and Joy woven all through it.

As Paul said so many times (actually I think he said it word for word in every attributed letter).... "Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ".

...yet you don't have the faith to move mountains either.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sat, Oct 31, 2009, at 2:07 AM

Unique-Lies,

Wrong, wrong, wrong,.... yea of little faith.

Through Faith I have leveled many mountains that were unscalable by any man and then walked joyfully and peacefully through the new made meadows.

Mount Dread

Mount Fear

Mount Gloom

Mount Hate

Mount Envy

Mount Pride (probably the highest)

Mount Lust

Need I go further.... I barely remember these that vanished in the twinkling of an eye.

I have found my nights much better in the green valleys next to the stream.

Don't get me wrong, there are still a few hills that appear in the foreground from time to time, but how difficult can it be to move the hill when we flattened the mountains.

Here you are telling me that YOU done these "Works" by "Faith" when in fact when anyone accepts Jesus Christ, God comes in and moves these mountains for them by taking away their sins and shame and hard ships. Without Christ you can do nothing. It is through Christ that all things are possible

Posted by Unique-Lies on Sat, Oct 31, 2009, at 5:14 PM

Unique-Lies,

What did you think Faith was?

As for changing the world, if you went around doing miracles, you would only be changing the people around you.

Jesus said the people only followed him around to see what miracles he would perform. You wouldn't be able to do any better at changing the world.

A servant can not be greater than his master.

What events did Jesus change on earth other than bring Christianity to the world. Did that stop the Romans from overthrowing the Jews? Did that change the way people lived back then? The disciples were hunted down and killed or imprisoned, so the world was still the same old unchanged world. Only a few people changed when they accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, Oct 30, 2009, at 12:30 PM

I don't think you are giving Jesus enough credit. What events did he change? A better question would be what events didn't he change?

The Jews were already under Roman rule. But that changed, and even the emperor was changed. Now we have a Roman Catholic church.

Only a few people were changed you said. A few million or even billions. I am not saying they will all be saved (not for me to judge) but they were all changed.

Yes, this work required the lives of many disciples, prophets, and Christ. What of it? Did they lose their lives? NO! They gained it! The disciples knew the cost, Christ knew the cost, we know the cost.

The questions is then, are we willing to pay?

I am not aginst wine sales in a grocery store. I have also greatly reduced my trips to Wal-mart because they don't have what I need and sell cheap Chinese junk.

Sam Walton made it great by buying American and meeting the needs of the customer. That has run its' course and is no longer that way. It changed.

It is about meeting a need. As long as the need exists in the market there will be those who rise to meet it.

What we really need is more salt and light lest the world become dark and tasteless all together.

When the grave yards are full of our brothers and sisters in Christ who have not even been born yet, and we learn that giving our lives as servants brought these dear ones to Christ, who will be a stranger?

A member of your own body a stranger? Not Possible.

Blessed Assurance,

Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

You posted:

Well thank you unique.

I though Paul's words in Romans 10:15 might draw a compliment from you.

Your calling is to preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things. My calling is different from your calling. You make my calling very rough because you contradict everything I quote in the bible.

I speak out what I have to say. It is up to the readers to determine what the truth is by reading his word and not siding with you and me.

Your calling is to preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things. My calling is different from your calling. You make my calling very rough because you contradict everything I quote in the bible.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Sat, Oct 31, 2009, at 9:04 PM

Unique-Lies,

Satan working through humans can quote the Bible to accomplish his desires.

Examine the fruits of the spirit working through you and you will know who is calling you.

Dread, agony, bondage, death and misery are not Fruits of the Holy Spirit that Calls me.

Different Spirits

Different Fruits

Different Callers

Just...different

What events did Jesus change on earth other than bring Christianity to the world. Did that stop the Romans from overthrowing the Jews? Did that change the way people lived back then? The disciples were hunted down and killed or imprisoned, so the world was still the same old unchanged world. Only a few people changed when they accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, Oct 30, 2009, at 12:30 PM

I don't think you are giving Jesus enough credit. What events did he change? A better question would be what events didn't he change?

Posted by Liveforlight on Sat, Oct 31, 2009, at 7:50 PM

Liveforlight,

You have stated uniques' problem to the tee. Not giving Jesus enough credit. Not counting the shed Blood as totally sufficient.

I did not totally realize what really bothered me so much with uniquelies' theories until I read your statement. Then I remembered some of the earlier blogs before my time when Parkerbrothers were trying to convince uniquelies that the shed blood was a totally sufficient attonement and Christ remained our advocate forever even when we fall short after salvation.

Uniquelies tried to convey the theory that you are only saved until you sin one more time after salvation which indeed does discredit Jesus.

It is actually quite interesting to read their old debates about the sufficiency of Christ shed Blood. Evidently Parkerbrothers had some goats go missing and thought uniquelies was taking them and sacraficing them since uniquelies seemed to value their shed blood as more worthy and longer lasting than the shed Blood of Jesus.

I do agree with you that Christ did change the world and people in it. Beyond comprehension.

Keep spreading the Light of the Good News.

Unique,

I do not think the two prophets will have the same message as you.

I would think they would give all credit to Jesus and think His work alone is all sufficient and fully satisfying to the Father.

I doubt their message will be salvation until the next sin and then to hell you go.

Jesus Christ is not Faith and Faith is not Jesus Christ.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Nov 1, 2009, at 6:21 PM

Jesus Christ was, is, and will always be the perfect Faith to me.

I think other Christians feel the same way.

Blessed Assurance,

I'm sorry, I forgot, You, michaelbell, parkerbrothers and all the Christians in the world (except me) will be raptured up long before the second coming of Christ, so you won't know what happens in the future, nor will you be here to experience the torment or the pleasure of seeing Christ set foot on this old earth.

Looks to me like you can close your bible and forget about anything else.

Looks to me like you can close your bible and forget about anything else.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Nov 2, 2009, at 12:56 AM

Not until Satan is bound and puts his down will it be safe to put mine down and........ by that time I should already be in the precense of the Precious Word.

Until then it stays open to spread the Light and remove the Darkness that vigorously works to mask the Light.

Blessed Assurance,

Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

If you are in a rapture like you say will happen, then you should be present with the lord by then.

Only thing is, you must not know it, but if you are born again, you are present with the Lord right now, because He dwells within you. That is why you can not willfully sin once he comes in. If you do, the Holy Spirit leaves and your original demon returns with 7 more.

It shouldn't be long now. The New Pharaoh, president Obama, will be ushering in the One World Order, which will require only one Ruler to control the whole world. This could happen as early as 2012.

Not the end of the world mind you, we will still have to be tormented for the 1,260 days or 42 months while the beast reigns over the earth.

Blessed Assurance,

You posted: As I predicted before you started, one of the options you would choose would be to change the words a little and make it say something to the effect of in my own words.... "so they tormented (only some of them) them that dwelt on the earth."

I was close.

Hid in all that typing was the little subtle change.

You said..."so (most of the population) will be evil doers who are worshiping the beast"

-> That was cute, but highly stupid.

I read the bible, then put it in my own words to make it clearer. If I just read it verse for verse, what do I know? Anyone can do that.

-> "so they tormented (only some of them) them that dwelt on the earth."

Yes! These two witnesses Prophesy over in the Middle East. This makes the Beast very upset as well as the people who the Prophets are tormenting.

No one can buy nor sell without the mark of the beast, so how would everyone in the world travel over to the Middle East to be tormented by them unless they have received the mark of the beast to purchase tickets to fly etc.. If they accept the mark of the beast they are evil doers.

God's elect do not accept the mark of the beast, so they would not be tormented by these two prophets. Also the Elect Saints would be in agreement with the two prophets.

Just how hard can that be to understand?

-> I said: "so (most of the population) will be evil doers who are worshiping the beast".

So unless the majority of the population are God's Elect, then most of the population would be evil doers who are worshiping the beast.

(Rev 14:9-11)

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

That is what Revelation tells us. Everyone whose name is not written in the "Book of Life" will worship him or accept the mark of the beast.(Rev 13:8)

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

You seem to think that when Christ returns he is coming to get the saints in the Rapture, but Christ does not return until the end of the 42 months or 3 1/2 years, so all these saints are where? Right here on the earth (including those who sleep), so "Most of the population of the earth will be evil doers."

Ms Blessed Assurance, are the Saints tormented by the 2 witnesses? Are there more Saints than evil doers during this 42 month period?

I read the bible, then put it in my own words to make it clearer. If I just read it verse for verse, what do I know? Anyone can do that.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Nov 2, 2009, at 11:30 PM

Unique-Lies,

Yes, I seem to remember reading you calling it "tuning" Paul and John's work before.

And I think I remember parkerbrothers telling you it needed no tuning and I am going to agree with them.

You asked...."If I just read it verse for verse, what do I know?"

I tell you...You would know the Gospel.

You then stated..."Anyone can do that."

And I say....Yes and they should.

Tuning is just another clever word for deception.

Grasp the Good News and spread it unique.

Blessed Assurance,

Bess you! Keep spreading the Good News of Peace and Love because Love conquers all fear.

Everyone is going to need that love when all this begins.

I do pity those still here after the seventh seal is broken and the seven trumpets of wrath start.

I will be in the multitude no man could count by the sixth seal opening.

If I'm wrong I will be faced with having to resist the taking of the mark of the beast. Not a pretty picture.

....the fact the Holy Spirit is still dealing with us, shaping us into Christ's likeness.

Posted by Liveforlight on Tue, Nov 3, 2009, at 9:13 PM

Liveforlight,

That is what I see happening in my own life and the lives of other Christians I live around. Day by day we grow in that direction being nourished by the Light.

I do not feel like we can become sinless until we put off the tent of flesh. Then we will be in a glorified state.

I feel there are these three stages:

Justification - The process by which we come to realize and accept by faith that the faith and work of Christ is the only acceptable attonement for our many sins. We have realized that the Law was only our schoolmaster to lead us to know we need grace and mercy which is found in Christ. We accept the offer of salvation on God's terms and are now justified in the eyes of God by faith.

Sanctification - The process which we grow day by day toward a likeness of Christ. We read and study and learn more of Christ that we crave to be like. We have realized that we are free from the bondage of sin and the Law and are now under Grace. We know in essence we can sin and it will be forgiven but we do not want to sin out of Love for Christ. Our works now are out of Love and no longer of duty of the Law since we have realized we are free.

Glorification - The process of which we receive our glorified bodies and this corruptible puts on incorruption, and this mortal puts on immortality.

I may be wrong about the stages and processes but I feel like this is the processes of the Christians I see and of myself I observe.

We can not just accept Christ and go about our merry way.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Wed, Nov 4, 2009, at 12:04 PM

Unique-Lies,

I believe we could but instead we choose not to out of love for Christ who paid the price for us.

Really, if you would think about it, you are leaving us under the law with your theory. You would still have us in bondage. Actually under your theory we would be under a worse bondage after salvation than we were before salvation.

You are not allowing Christ to set you free so you can serve and worship Him out of pure love instead of duty.

You need to stand fast therefore in the liberty where with Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Liveforlight,

You posted--->

My point was not that the thrown was turned over but that the emperor, (Augustus I believe) became a Christian.

The Roman Catholics may not be righteous in God's eyes that is not for me to judge. But no one can dispute there were changes towards Christianity by the Romans.

Not sure about that. Never read it anywhere. The Emperor was afraid of Jesus and didn't want Jesus' blood on his hands so he left it up to the Jews to condemn him. He only carried out the punishment.

The Roman Catholics printed the first bible and the Christian bible was taken from their bible. The Christian version left out several of the uncertain books published in the Catholic Bible.

You posted--->

I believe that Christ will call at the Seventh (Last) trump. If I am required to suffer for Christ on earth then that is what will happen. Giving up my life is my choice out of love for him.

I believe Christ will return also when the seventh (last) trumpet is sounded. He will return in the clouds and every eye shall see him. This is when he will meet them in the air, only it will be those who are the 144,000 Jews.

Here is why: Jesus is returning to "revenge" the deaths of his saints. He will come on a white horse and his army will follow. Jesus doesn't need an army too numerous to count coming with him to do what he promised he would do.

That would make Christ look weak and inferior if he brought billions of soldiers with him.

In the days of Abraham, 4 kings went out and started destroying one country after the other. The kings of Sodom and Gomorrah went after them and were defeated. The 4 kings and their armies went into Sodom and captured the country and its people and possessions.

One person escaped the battle ad came and told Abraham that they took Lot (Abraham's brother's son) in the raid.

when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.

Only 318 trained servants against 4 kings and their armies and Abraham defeated them and recovered the people and their possessions.

Why do Christians think Christ needs a multitude too numerous to count?

You posted--->

Our Claims and reality will come face to face. If members of the body of Christ are present around me and I am allowed to remain I would be honored to be in the presence of such strangers.

When Christ returns, he is going to slay everyone except those who do not worship the beast nor accept his mark.

These people who are left alive will be here on earth to witness the First Resurrection. The First Resurrection will contain only the saints who were killed for His sake and those who are left standing alive on earth.

These people will reign with Christ for a thousand years and become the new Kings and Priests of God and Jesus in his new Kingdom here on earth and will be the ones to teach and guide the people who are resurrected after the thousand years.

Unless we are killed for Jesus' sake or live in the last 42 months and don't surrender to the beast, we will be resurrected after the 1,000 years.

Here is where you will need to be able to recognize these old Christians, but the kings and Priests will have an untold knowledge that we will be living by at that time.

This is when he will meet them in the air, only it will be those who are the 144,000 Jews.

Here is why: Jesus is returning to "revenge" the deaths of his saints. He will come on a white horse and his army will follow. Jesus doesn't need an army too numerous to count coming with him to do what he promised he would do.

That would make Christ look weak and inferior if he brought billions of soldiers with him.

Why do Christians think Christ needs a multitude too numerous to count?

Posted by Unique-Lies on Wed, Nov 4, 2009, at 1:35 PM

Unique-Lies,

Christians I know do not think Christ "needs" a multitude too numerous to count to do anything. I find it strange you think he needs even 144,000 Jews. He can simply speak it and it would be done. He needs no help.

Ever thought that with this in mind that Christ might want us to see His "revenge" for the death of the saints.

He doesn't need 144,000 Jews to help Him.

He doesn't need a multitude too numerous to count for help either.

(If) The Gospel (Good News) has never been about not sinning --- then you must be saying (the Good News) is all about sinning!

Posted by Unique-Lies on Wed, Nov 4, 2009, at 4:08 PM

Unique-Lies,

No, that is not what I am saying. Read Romans and Galatians sometimes. Paul seemed to be able to straighten them out on this.

Read them without doing the tuning thing if you are truly interested in learning. Paul needs no tuning either by the way.

Blessed Assurance,

You posted:

Christians I know do not think Christ "needs" a multitude too numerous to count to do anything. I find it strange you think he needs even 144,000 Jews. He can simply speak it and it would be done. He needs no help.

Ever thought that with this in mind that Christ might want us to see His "revenge" for the death of the saints.

He doesn't need 144,000 Jews to help Him.

He doesn't need a multitude too numerous to count for help either.

-- Posted by Blessed Assurance on Wed, Nov 4, 2009, at 7:41 PM

I agree that Christ doesn't need a multitude nor even 144,000 Jews. He can speak it and it would be done, however He wants to do this in person.

Christ speaks of sending his angels to weed his garden and burn the weeds.

The bible tells us in rev 14 that Christ returns and standing with him are the 144,000 Jews but does NOT mention anything about a multitude of people too numerous to count!

You posted:

If you had not stopped reading when you got to verse 9 you would see that he accusses us day and night this very day and will up until the third woe of the seventh trumpet. Then he will be cast down.

Revelation 12:10

10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Read the last part of the last sentence... "which accused them before our God day and night." John used the past tense of the word accuse meaning he accused in the past, but not anymore. Now Satan just deceives everyone to their face and makes them doubt their faith so they will join his army.

You posted:

You could understand things if you left it like John saw it. No tuning needed. It is so easy to grasp if you quit trying to come up with some secret to puff your pride.

You are trying to put the seventh trumpet back before where we are today which I believe is somewhere between the fith and sixth seal.

As I have tried to tell you before, when you start rearranging the order of the seals, trumpets and vials you can concoct some pretty wild theories and make it look like you have discovered some new knowledge or secret. If you can find someone to believe you?

As for me, I like it like it is. No tuning needed.

I have no trouble with Revelation. I just overlook the order as if it is an outline then he goes back and explains it.

For example:

In chapter 11, John sees the 2 Witnesses, the Beast attacks them. (This is the 42 months that the Beast is ruling)

In this same chapter John sees the seventh angel blow his trumpet and "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever."

Then in the next chapter, chapter 12; John sees the birth of Christ and Satan trying to devour him at birth. Then Satan is defeated by the blood of Christ and cast out of heaven.

Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

The events that are described in Chapter 12 should be inserted before chapter 11 that talks about the 2 witnesses and the beast and the second coming of Christ.

Now in Chapter 13; John is seeing the beast coming up out of the sea for the first time, yet John saw the beast in Chapter 11 wage war with the 2 witnesses.

Chapter 13 describes the Beast who was seen in Chapters 11 and 12 and his reign here on earth. SO chapter 13 should be before chapter 11 also.

I understand, like making a movie, some things have to be presented at the same time so everything is stopped until it is all explained before it can continue on. Revelation is the same way. There is so much to tell and it all has to be explained so some things are better explained after another scene or take. We have to understand this when reading the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Read the last part of the last sentence... "which accused them before our God day and night." John used the past tense of the word accuse meaning he accused in the past, but not anymore. Now Satan just deceives everyone to their face and makes them doubt their faith so they will join his army

Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, Nov 6, 2009, at 11:31 AM

Unique-Lies,

John would have to use the past tense in describing a future event that had just happened.

At that point in his vision he is in the future at the seventh trumpet descibing what had just happened (war in heaven between Michael and his angels against the dragon) in the past tense which he is correct in doing. The devil will accuse us in heaven right up to that point in the future. Once the seventh trumpet occurs it will then become past tense and we could then say he accused us up to that point.

Although his vision was at Patmos almost 2000 years ago he is describing an event that had just happened in the vision of the future and had no choice but to correctly refer to it in a past tense just as we will refer to it in the past tense once we get to the point in time John is describing.

I have no trouble with Revelation. I just overlook the order as if it is an outline then he goes back and explains it.

For example:

In chapter 11, John sees the 2 Witnesses, the Beast attacks them. (This is the 42 months that the Beast is ruling)

In this same chapter John sees the seventh angel blow his trumpet and "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever."

Then in the next chapter, chapter 12; John sees the birth of Christ and Satan trying to devour him at birth. Then Satan is defeated by the blood of Christ and cast out of heaven.

Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

The events that are described in Chapter 12 should be inserted before chapter 11 that talks about the 2 witnesses and the beast and the second coming of Christ.

Now in Chapter 13; John is seeing the beast coming up out of the sea for the first time, yet John saw the beast in Chapter 11 wage war with the 2 witnesses.

Chapter 13 describes the Beast who was seen in Chapters 11 and 12 and his reign here on earth. SO chapter 13 should be before chapter 11 also.

I understand, like making a movie, some things have to be presented at the same time so everything is stopped until it is all explained before it can continue on. Revelation is the same way. There is so much to tell and it all has to be explained so some things are better explained after another scene or take. We have to understand this when reading the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, Nov 6, 2009, at 11:31 AM

Unique-Lies,

When I was requesting you keep order to the events of Revelation I was not referring to chapters of the book since it was not written with chapters but rather I wanted you to keep the seals, trumpets and vials in order to help us understand it better.

I agree with you about there being so much going on and so much to tell. That is especially true about the vents leading up to and through the seventh trumpet. Almost every seal, trumpet or vial is explained using on a few short verses but eight different chapters are used on the seventh trumpet describing the events leading up to it from leaving the sixth trumpet all the way through the last of it up to where the first vial starts. A lot is happening during this period of time that appears to be approximately seven years.

With that being said I hope you see that I believe everything is in order even when considering the chapters you mentioned. I believe the events descibed from the middle of Chapter 9 through Chapter 16 are all occuring during the time right before and leading into the seventh trumpet, during the seventh trumpet, and ending before the first vial starts.

I might disagee with you on your discussion and interpretation of Chapter 12 if I am understanding you correctly. If you are saying that you believe Chapter 12 is depicting the virgin birth of Christ that occurred almost 2000 years ago I am disagreeing with you.

Also I would say I see things a little different about your reference to the beast and the 42 months you mention in Chapters 11, 12 and 13 that has you seeing things as out of order. I believe that John is describng different beast and that there is two periods of 42 months that occur surrounding the events around the seventh trumpet.

You posted: I might disagee with you on your discussion and interpretation of Chapter 12 if I am understanding you correctly. If you are saying that you believe Chapter 12 is depicting the virgin birth of Christ that occurred almost 2000 years ago I am disagreeing with you.

Please explain what it is depicting then!

Posted by Unique-Lies on Sat, Nov 7, 2009, at 11:58 AM

Unique-Lies,

Since symbology is being used in Chapter 12 I can only give you my opinion of what it represents.

The core of my opinion would be heavily influenced by considering what John was told early on he was going to see.

In the first verse of the first chapter he was told that he was going to be showed the things which must shortly come to pass. Revelation is believed to have been written somewhere around 90-96 A.D. With that in mind I am led to think that John is going to see what is going to happen in the future after this date.

Revelation 1

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John

When I look at the vision itself which includes the events of the questioned Chapter 12 I see this vision started at Chapter 4. In the first verse of Chapter 4 I see he is again told what he will be shown in this vision. He is told he will be showed the things which must be hereafter. I again see no way to view the descriptive word "hereafter" other than to mean the future.

Revelation 4

1After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

I will admit that it is very easy to see how you can read Chapter 12 and see similarities of the virgin birth with the symbols of the chapter.

However John would have to have being showed things that had "recently pass" instead of things "shortly to pass" if the symbols represent the birth of Christ.

With that in mind my opinion is formed that the woman with the crown of twelve stars upon her head is the Church and the crown of 12 stars are the 12 apostles.

During the future time period (trumpet) this is occurring in the bride is ready for delivery.

I hope that explains what I see depicted in a way that you can understand at least why I see this, just as I can easily see where you could see the virgin birth being depicted in the symbols.

Unique-Lies,

I see where I made a mistake and have confused you by what I said.

Let me try to clarify what I meant when I wrote that the words "hereafter" and "soon to pass" were words that meant the future.

I was not intending for you to think I was referring to the future as being from November 2009 forward.

I was saying that it was referring to the future in front of somewhere around 90-96 A.D. when John had the vision.

I believe that he was being shown things that were to pass soon and herafter of the day of the vision forward into that future.

You posted: I was saying that it was referring to the future in front of somewhere around 90-96 A.D. when John had the vision.

This is a little confusing. Did you mean by "in front of", sometime before John wrote the book or after he wrote the book or just the period between 90 and 96 A.D.?

Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Nov 9, 2009, at 9:42 PM

Unique-Lies,

Sorry it was confusing again. Let me try again. I'm not the best at explaining myself and thoughts.

I believe John was instructed he was going to be shown the things that must come hereafter from the time he had the vision on into the future and to write these things down. I believe he was shown things that were representative of approximately 90 A.D. until now in 2009 and further on into the near future.

I do not believe that John was told to write about past events.

He could have wrote about that without the aid of being carried in the spirit to see the things coming hereafter that day of the vision.

Actually he had already written about the things of the herebefore of the vison at Patmos.

John wrote a very good letter on the birth, life, ministry, death, burial and resurrection of Christ which is one of the four Gospels.

As you know by my previous statements, I think the Book of Revelation was written by this same John under Holy inspiration revealing the "future" in a orderly and precise fashion that would exemplify the Father who is not an author of confusion. God may have chosen to have an element of mystery with Himself but that is not to be seen as authoring confusion. Just because He did not want the seven thunders revealed does not mean He wanted the seven seals, trumpers and vials out of order causing confusion for the sake of justifying man's own prophesies which they take pride in.

Back to the point, I hope I was able to convey what I meant by the future and more specifically what time period I think comprises the things of the "hereafter" mentioned.

If not, let me know and I will try again to define my meanings of words that I see can be easily confusing.

Doesn't it feel great though unique to be free from the bondage of sin that required perfectly keeping the law. With our "duty" discharged by the sacrafice of Christ we are now free to respond out of nothing other than free-will "love".

Until you realize "duty" is gone, you can not be released to "love".

Satan will always try to keep us under the impression of an obligation of "duty" as means of denying God our works of "love".

Works done out of "duty" are nothing but filthy rags in the nostrils of God.

Works done out of "love" are a sweet smelling aroma to God.

If "duty" is driving the car, "love" is not a passenger.

Likewise, "love" disallows "duty" to ride with it in the same vehicle.

Apreciate and enjoy the Peace and Joy that comes with the discharge papers. It is almost beyond comprehension when you look and realize they were signed by Jesus Christ.

Careful,

Faith without action is dead! Love is both noun and verb.

I believe our our actions (works) will be viewed by God as one of two primarily different and totally opposing ways.

Action (Work) done out of "duty" in attempting to keep the law and earn in any part of our own righteousness will be as the stinch of dirty filthy rags in His nostrils.

Action (Work) done out of "love" for the Son, who took the law out of the way and nailed it to the cross freeing us from the bondage of sin, and became our righteousness will be a sweet aroma in the nostrils of God.

When we finally realize that we are free from the bondage created by the law and understand fully that the duty has been totally removed by the keeping and fullfillment of the Law by Christ and that His Sacrafice was what freed us and that His perfect righteousness is imputed into us by Grace through the channel of Faith we then for the first time in our life can work in the freedom to love.

Yes, love exists in both noun and verb form.

I simply believe that one thing that can change it from noun to a (sweet smelling) verb is a soul that realizes Jesus discharged us from required duty.

I thought about and realized the effort, work and sacrafice He put into getting me discharged from what I had viewed as a burdensome duty I never could perform satisfactorly and became so thankful and greatful for what He had done that I joyously now volunteered back into service on my own free will.

I found it amazing that I now enjoyed being active in service voluntarily doing the exact things I once was bound in duty to perform under the draft. And the greatest thing of all about it is that my Commander in Chief now smiles at the actions of mine.

Very good! The duty is fulfilled! Only Christ makes that possible. Ours is to love him. If we love him we will keep his commandments (glasses). Breaking one is the same as breaking all. We failed in our duty.

Some would use his blood as a license to break all, again, again, and again, no growth for the child in this scenario.

Just saying, be careful in such teachings because our father expects his children to do his will (duty) and to grow and mature to be like Christ.

We cannot do it without Christ that is true. We may not do it with Christ. But we dare not do it to Christ.

Indeed, righteousness does not come by the law, other than Christ being the fulfillment of that law. He did not abolish the law but made it possible for us to fulfill it through him.

The child in my story exeperiences the grace of God through Christ. Christ humbled himself and became the step ladder to fulfilling our duty. Without him, we would never be able to reach the shelf.

We are to also be a step ladder, not a door mat, but a step ladder, the same as Christ. Helping others up by our sacrifice to his glory. He in us, we in him, us in them.

It seems to me the child in your story may become a spoiled brat that loves the sound of breaking glass and has no feelings for the fathers prized possesions (otherwise he would have stopped at the first one), but instead relies on his big brother to constantly sacrifice himself for his lack of love and understanding of the fathers wishes.

This is an unlearning child that refuses to grow up and take responsibility for his actions thereby glorifing God and the Son.

We all have our convictions and burdens to bear. In this world we have a cross to bear.

That does not mean doom and gloom, but joy in the knowledge of pleasing the only one who really matters.

Christ did not die in vain, he died so that we might be able to attain the heights that we would not otherwsie be able to. We should reach for that top shelf knowing Christ enables us to reach it.

We do not get to heaven by our works, but we will not get there with none either. Even if that work is simply saying "remember me when you come into your kingdom".

It seems to me the child in your story may become a spoiled brat that loves the sound of breaking glass and has no feelings for the fathers prized possesions (otherwise he would have stopped at the first one), but instead relies on his big brother to constantly sacrifice himself for his lack of love and understanding of the fathers wishes.

Posted by Liveforlight on Thu, Nov 12, 2009, at 1:17 PM

No, actually I know the child I referenced and he follows in the footsteps of his brother that did the all sufficient work for him he was unable to do for himself and released from bondage and through love for the brother, has performed work after work after work without the left hand even knowing what the right hand was doing. His brother only had to do the work once to satisfy the father and the father was well pleased.

He did not love the sound of breaking glass as you claim. The sound of the breaking glass was what caused his heart to be be convicted.

He did not stop at the first one because he was under the misguided assumption that he had to do the work in order to satisfy the father and earn his keep.

Not joyously breaking his commandments under the presumption of grace. VERY DANGEROUS TEACHINGS

Posted by Liveforlight on Thu, Nov 12, 2009, at 2:21 PM

Who has tried to teach that?

Yes it would be very dangerous teachings.

Almost but not hardly as dangerous as teaching works have anything in the least to do with salvation.

Works have a value of zero in justification.

Actually they have a negative value.

Liveforlight,

You have posted exactly word for word what I was expecting and hoping to see this morning.

Those commonly misunderstood verses of James 2 were probably the biggest tool Satan was able to use by misconstruing to carry the Church down to its low point before the Reformation period rescued it from his grips.

Those verses are still misused and understood today causing the greatest division and seperation of Christians into denominations. 80% of the Church of Christ denominational herald comes from it followed by the verse in Ephesians 5 that mention of "speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord" which seperates their denomination from others since they feel it prohibits musical instruments in church.

The first time I ever read the Bible from start to finish in order those verses stopped me dead in my tracks from going forward reading and caused me to go back. I knew while I was reading James 2 that I had just previously in the weeks before read so much scripture that totally contradicted and actually said the opposite of what I was reading in James 2.

So at this time instead of reading what followed after James 2 I went back trying to find what was so totally contrasting to it. Although most everything in the Bible leading up to James seemed to contradict his writing I was looking for what I remember being an almost word for word opposite writing of it.

I found it in Romans 4 and then found it again in Galatians 3.

Romans 4

1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Galatians 3

1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

After going back and reading these I saw what seemed to be the greatest contradiction of all in the Bible. I was confused.

Knowing that God was not and is not the author of confusion I knew then it was His adversary that was authoring my perceived confusion.

I knew God was not authoring my confusion but likewise knew he could remove the confusion.

I would read James 2, Romans 4, and Galatians 3 over and over and over. I noticed they were specifically all talking about the same main points of justification, faith, works, Abraham, and righteousness.

Finally after much reading and studying it dawned on me that instead of focusing on what James 2, Romans 4, and Galatians 3 had in common I should look at where they were dissimilar and I found my answer which removed the confusion.

James was speaking of justification of man to another man when he wrote:

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Paul was speaking of justification of man to God when he wrote.

11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Later it became even more clear when I studied the times of which each letter was wrote. Seeing that James was written early it became evident that Satan had somewhat effectively misused scripture causing confusion to the Romans and Galatians after they had read the earlier letter of james prompting Paul to attempt to straighten out that which was probably causing their downward drift from faith (falling from grace)back into works(bondage).

1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

So in time I grew to understand there is no contradiction. James was speaking of justification in the eyes of man. Paul was speaking of justification in the eyes of God.

My only concern today is seeing lost souls justified in the eyes of God, not man.

Their "works" will not and can not justify them in His eyses.

Only "Faith" in the finished work of Christ will attone for our sins and allow "His" righteousness to be imputed upon "our" unrighteousness allowing us to stand Justified in front of God.

Galatians 2:16

16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

I believe your confusion between Paul and James is because they are talking about two different types of "works".

James is talking about the works of a believer. Paul is talking about the "works of the law".

Abraham was a believer with works. The law hadn't even been written when he offered Isaac.

The law does not work to justify only condemn. This is what Paul is talking about.

Jesus said that his brothers are those who KNOW and DO the will of God. These are works of a believer. Christ works in them to satisfy the law. Not themselves, but Christ in them.

Those who are working inquity (lawlessness)may have some of the works of the law, but not of the believer. They know God but God does not know them.

You can have works and have no faith in Christ to meet the requirements of the law.

You cannot have faith and have no works. Again, if you have no works you have no faith. The law had already been dealt with. This is what James is talking about.

Jesus said he that is not against you is for you. And again, he who is not for you is against you.

If you say no works are required, or are actually negative, then Satan is happy because he knows your faith is in danger too.

Although works do not justify, the absence of them is indicative of a lack of faith. Saying or teaching that works are not required is DANGEROUS.

I will say no more.

BLESSINGS TO ALL:)

I think trampling Christ blood under foot is using his sacrifice and disregarding his teachings. Using his atonement as a license to avoid work and continue in sinful works.

You refer to Paul's teaching about the law. I am referring to Christ's teaching. To me, he is saying that not everyone who calls him Lord will be saved and not everyone who does the works either. You need to do both, call on his name and do the Fathers will.

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Mt 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Mt 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The father wrote the commandments. Do you think he wrote them as a trap or because it is his will for us to obey them? Are these good laws? Yes! Just as the author of them is good. Why then would you disregard them? So that grace can abound? Read more Romans.

Of course we fail! Christ has redeemed our failure! But not one jot or tittle has fallen from the law.

If we are his we will have works. PLAIN AND SIMPLE! Will the works justify you? NO! Being his justifies you. The Children are like the Father. Does the Father have works? Then what of the children?

Work for the night is coming! Live for the light!

The father wrote the commandments. Do you think he wrote them as a trap or because it is his will for us to obey them?

Posted by Liveforlight on Sat, Nov 14, 2009, at 4:50 AM

Liveforlight,

I believe it is evident He knew before he gave the commandments that we could not obey them and that He gave them to be our schoolmaster to teach us we could not satisfy His commandments and to use them to lead us to His Son who would keep them and allow Him to be His only acceptable attonement for our sins which were revealed to us by the commandments.

The commandments show us our unrighteous that can only be covered by His righeousness by imputation. Faith is the only thing that will allow this imputation to occur. All the good works combined of every person who has ever lived and given to one soul's credit would not be sufficient to enable that one soul to be declared righteous and justified in the eyes of God allowing the righteousness of Christ to be imputed to it.

Paul explained the purpose of the commandments to the Galatians right after he admonished them early in Chapter 3 on allowing themselves to be "bewitched" back into works away from faith.

Galatians 3: 1-3

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

and then his explanation

Galatians 3: 24-26

24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Speaking of "obeying" notice in verse one of Galatians 3 what Paul is saying. He is indeed admonishing them about "obeying". But he is not admonishing them about not "obeying" the commandments but rather about "obeying" the truth which is justification by Faith instead of works involving keeping the commandments.

No doubt, the issues of faith versus works are a problem still today like it was almost 2000 years ago.

Not that either one is a problem but rather their relationship to one another and the understanding of this relationship is what can cause a serious and dangerous problem.

If someone stresses the importance of faith they are accused of using it as a license to sin.

If someone stresses works they are accused of trying to destroy the faith.

I agree with your comment that came to you in prayer that we all have works either good or bad.

I have never wanted to give the impression of anything but that.

We are constantly working either, for or against, good or bad, in freedom or in bondage, positive or negative, producing sweet aromas or producing dirty rags.

My point has always been that only the works that are done in freedom away from bondage will be viewed as good works in the eyes of God and that these good works are an aftermath of justification by faith and not prerequisite of justification.

Indeed our actions and even as much so our inactions are constantly producing works.

I just hope and pray though that no one ever gets stuck in thinking that justification is obtained by their works or any measure of works by them.

I hope they see that only faith in the work of Christ can bring justification and I believe that the better they understand this the more goods works will naturally flow as a byproduct out of salvation.

parkerbrothers/

You posted: I have heard people, even on here, that have thought you lost justification and the imputed righteousness of Christ by simply sinning once after being declared justified in the eyes of God.

-> That someone was me! However that isn't what I said. Like everything else, YOU changed the words to say something you wanted it to say.

I said after you have received and tasted the gifts of being born again and knowing Jesus and your "Willfully sin" your sins are no longer forgiven because you have trampled the blood of Christ.

You can commit many sins after accepting Christ and be forgiven of them, but a willful and an intentional sin is different. There is no blood for those sins. (Hebrews 6:4-6; Hebrews 10:26-31)

Hebrews 10:26-31 (New Living Translation)

26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.

27 There is only the terrible expectation of God's judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies.

28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God's mercy to us.

30 For we know the one who said, "I will take revenge. I will pay them back." He also said, "The Lord will judge his own people.

I have willfully sinned and will not be forgiven of those sins. Period. I must go on and continue worshiping God and not commit willful sins deliberately and intentionally or they won't be forgiven either.

Salvation is taken away for one more sin etc, like parkerbrothers thinks I said. Only your deliberate/willful sins are not forgiven.

Let me make this clear: For those who have never been saved nor received the gifts from God, when YOU accept Christ for the first time, you are forgiven of every sin you ever committed, knowingly or not, willfully or not. Sometimes our sins are so great that we find it hard to believe God could actually forgive us of them, but he does and you won't free free from them until you accept the fact that your sins ARE Forgiven. Just don't sin intentionally after you receive Christ as your Lord and Savior and you won't be having this discussion.

I saved this post for last: Let me add also that I likewise hope and pray though that no one ever gets stuck in thinking that justification is "kept" by their works or any measure of works by them.

Works will not save anyone, but once saved or "re-born", your works is all you have. If you don't do good works you are said to be from the devil. If you do good works you are a good Christian. People judge us by our works we do in public but know nothing about our works in private.

Not only do you get judged by people everyday, but you are going to be judged according to your works by the judge of judges, Christ himself. Works don't give you salvation, but your works can keep or lose your salvation.

In the very few short coming years ahead, you will have to do your best works in order to be in the rapture, should something like that take place. I don't buy it but to each their own.

FYI - I read about the LRAD that the governments are using "TODAY". It stands for Long Range Acoustic Device. It actually shoots a beam of sound from 60 dB (normal conversation) to maximum volume 146 dB (continual) and 151 dB (in bursts). The threshold of pain for most people is 130 dB where they pass out from the pain.

It is like a loud speaker but the sound waves sound like a voice in your head. Just think, people hear voices in their head telling them to come to the rapture port, or anything else.

It was used against the pirates who attempted to attack the cruise ship Seabourn Spirit off the coast of Somalia. It is being used for crowd control in protest/riots.

Today or in a day or two I will be making one of my last posts under "A Little Something for Ever body". Watch for it!

Unique-

Maybe you are being to hard on yourself. Jesus said blaspheming the Holy Spirit was the unpardonable sin. Hebrews above uses "disdain".

dis⋅dain/dɪsˈdeɪn, dɪˈsteɪn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dis-deyn, di-steyn] --verb (used with object) 1. to look upon or treat with contempt; despise; scorn.

2. to think unworthy of notice, response, etc.; consider beneath oneself:

--noun 3. a feeling of contempt for anything regarded as unworthy; haughty contempt; scorn

If you have truly scorned the Holy Spirit and think you are greater than he, then yes I would say that is blaspheming.

To me, the fact that you recognize and anguish over the incident is testimony of your respect for the Holy Spirit.

You do indeed have a heart condition, as we all do, if in our hearts we love God, his son, his word, his kingdom,etc., then I suppose we will just have to follow our heart and throw ourselves upon his mercy. Is that where we are anyway?

He knows our hearts, even if we don't. I have found it is easier to forgive others than it is to forgive myself. Perhaps you are paying for your sin now, through the anquish you are suffering.

You are blessed just to know him.

Liveforlight,

You asked me earlier what would need to be done to save our constitutional rights. I answered with a hypothetical answer about making Congress liable for their actions of not upholding their oath of office and protecting our constitution.

I will answer now with a very logical answer:

It is too late! Congress no longer has any say in our constitutional rights.

Not Yet!