Merry CHRISTmas or Holiday Season

Letter from Jesus about Christmas --

It has come to my attention that many of you are upset that folks are taking My name out of the season.

How I personally feel about this celebration can probably be most easily understood by those of you who have been blessed with children of your own. I don't care what you call the day. If you want to celebrate My birth, just GET ALONG AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

Now, having said that let Me go on. If it bothers you that the town in which you live doesn't allow a scene depicting My birth, then just get rid of a couple of Santas and snowmen and put in a small Nativity scene on your own front lawn if all My followers did that there wouldn't be any need for such a scene on the town square because there would be many of them all around town.

Stop worrying about the fact that people are calling the tree a holiday tree, instead of a Christmas tree. It was I who made all trees. You can remember Me anytime you see any tree. Decorate a grape vine if you wish. I actually spoke of that one in a teaching, explaining who I am in relation to you and what each of our tasks were. If you have forgotten that one, look up John 15: 1-8.

If you want to give Me a present in remembrance of My birth here is my wish list. Choose something from it:

1. Instead of writing protest letters objecting to the way My birthday is being celebrated, write letters of love and hope to soldiers away from home. They are terribly afraid and lonely this time of year. I know, they tell Me all the time.

2. Visit someone in a nursing home. You don't have to know them personally. They just need to know that someone cares about them.

3. Instead of writing the President complaining about the wording on the cards his staff sent out this year, why don't you write and tell him that you'll be praying for him and his family this year. Then follow up... It will be nice hearing from you again.

4. Instead of giving your children a lot of gifts you can't afford and they don't need, spend time with them. Tell them the story of My birth, and why I came to live with you down here. Hold them in your arms and remind them that I love them.

5 Pick someone that has hurt you in the past and forgive him or her.

6. Did you know that someone in your town will attempt to take their own life this season because they feel so alone and hopeless? Since you don't know who that person is, try giving everyone you meet a warm smile; it could make the difference.

7. Instead of nit picking about what the retailer in your town calls the holiday, be patient with the people who work there. Give them a warm smile and a kind word. Even if they aren't allowed to wish you a "Merry Christmas" that doesn't keep you from wishing them one. Then stop shopping there on Sunday. If the store didn't make so much money on that day they'd close and let their employees spend the day at home with their families

8. If you really want to make a difference, support a missionary-- especially one who takes My love and good news to those who have never heard My name.

9. Here's a good one. There are individuals and whole families in your town who not only will have no "Christmas" tree, but neither will they have any presents to give or receive. If you don't know them, buy some food and a few gifts and give them to the Salvation Army or some other charity which believes in Me and they will make the delivery for you.

10. Finally, if you want to make a statement about your belief in and loyalty to Me, then behave like a Christian. Don't do things in secret that you wouldn't do in My presence. Let people know by your actions that you are one of mine.

Don't forget; I am God and can take care of Myself. Just love Me and do what I have told you to do. I'll take care of all the rest. Check out the list above and get to work; time is short. I'll help you, but the ball is now in your court. And do have a most blessed Christmas with all those whom you love and remember :

I LOVE YOU,

JESUS

IN GOD WE TRUST

"Even our so called Christian president chose to call it a holiday tree, to use a phrase of a well known Democrat just changed to fit the season, Mr.Obama I know Christians, and you are no Christian! I pray God guides shows you the light and then that you believe that Jesus is the only way, contrary to what you stated earlier."

Really Michael, you should not believe every piece of chain mail garbage that hits your inbox. I think it is tragic that you believe the nonsense that you write, that you call yourself a preacher, and that there are more lost sheep like you among us.

Jesus is the reason for the season...right on.

It's not about liberals and conservatives, it's about right and wrong, and spreading lies is never a good idea. Imagine if I received an e-mail that stated that Michael Bell was a child molester and without bothering to check any facts, I simply go all over town telling everyone I know about what that Michael Bell guy is like. I guess we will have to wait and see what else he does.

Well Michael just as I expected YOU HAVE NO ACTUAL FACTS TO BACK YOUR ACCUSATION, just like all the other fools who have been spewing this. this is the sort of thing the rabid right drool over( I am not referring to the responsible respectable conservatives who value facts and truth above the agenda)

So Mr.Bell do tell us where are the facts to back this accusation? Did you do the research for truth or was the gossip just too juicy to pass up?

As a so called preacher it should be of utmost importance to you to be sure of FACTS and TRUTH before passing things on. We know that the bible stresses the importance of those things.

Again can you back this with facts or are you just flirting with the false prophet thing?

Thank you, brown eyed girl. That is true. Christmas is really just a commercialized holiday that has no Christian meaning. There is no biblical proof that Jesus was born on December 25th. Furthermore, in the Bible we are commanded to remember His death, burial, and resurrection (with partaking of the Lord's Supper on each first day of the week), not celebrate his birthday.

It's interesting that Mr. Bell has nothing to back his accusation. But that does not surprise me. This is not as much about the name a tree is called but in the fact that he has chosen to pass rumors about the president of our nation. It's not about if you back the president or not but to what lengths some are going to meet their agenda to spread hate for him. IF there are problems and things that need to brought to the attention of our nation then by all means do so but back them with truth and facts not rumors and lies. The truth is said to set us free, and I guess that would also mean that lies bind us.

Those such as Mr. bell who chose to represent the followers of our Lord need to be held accountable to the information they choose to pass on and thus should be prepared to back their information with facts. They need to be honest and trust worthy, spreading lies and rumors does not fit that responsibility and thus they need to be called out when they choose to pass such things off as truth.

This a perfect place for this -----

T'was the month before Christmas

When all through our land,

Not a Christian was praying Nor taking a stand. See the PC Police had taken away,

The reason for Christmas - no one could say.

The children were told by their schools

not to sing about Shepherds and Wise Men and Angels and things. It might hurt people's feelings, the teachers would say

December 25th is just a Holiday.

Yet the shoppers were ready with cash,checks and credit. Pushing folks down to the floor just to get it!

CDs from Madonna, an X BOX, an I-pod.

Something was changing, something quite odd! Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa

In hopes to sell books by Franken & Fonda. As Targets were hanging their trees upside down

At Lowe's the word Christmas was no where to be found.

At K-Mart and Staples and Penny's and Sears,

you won't hear the word Christmas;

It won't touch your ears.

Sensitive, Diversity are words used to intimidate me.

Now Daschle, Now Darden, Now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen, On Boxer, on Rather, on Kerry,& Clinton!

At the top of the Senate, there arose such a clatter to eliminate Jesus, in all public matters.

And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith. Forbidden to speak of salvation and grace. The true Gift of Christmas was exchanged and discarded. The reason for the season,

Stopped before it was started.

So as you celebrate 'Winter Break' neath your Holiday Tree, Sipping your Starbucks, hark unto me.

Choose your words carefully, choose what you say.

Shout MERRY CHRISTMAS , not Happy Holiday!

Please, all Christians, join together and wish everyone you meet during the holidays a MERRY CHRISTMAS. Christ is The Reason for the

Christmas Season!

wonderwhy,

You've got a better chance at finding Osama bin Laden alive than expecting a fact based argument with Michael. It just simply doesn't happen.. As you will notice once you ask him to present said fact(s), he simply disappears, or starts a new blog about how horrible the world is, and how he has done nothing to change it.

I have said for years that Christmas has been too highly commercialized, along with other holidays religious or not. It seems as though a lot of people, once again religious or not, have forgotten the true meanings behind holidays. Christmas to me was never about what kind of toys or gifts you got or gave. Coming from a not so well of family showed me there was much more than materialistic objects to the whole Christmas celebration.

I have hesitated to put up my Christmas tree this year, but I will for the simple fact that my daughter and husband love Christmas. To me, it has lost all of its true meaning and family values. I remember every Christmas Eve, we would all pack up and head to my grandparents house for dinner and time together. Yes, there was always presents, but not many. It was some of the happiest memories that I have as a child. Now, that my grandmother and father have died, no one in my family really gathers anymore.

Whatever happened to just being thankful for what you have and not caring what people are calling the holiday that has been overly promoted by everyone? I may be young, but I do know that Christmas is about love and caring, more thant giving and receiving. I do not consider myself to be a Christian and do not go to church. I know that I am living in the Bible Belt and that religious holidays are the most important of them all, but I believe that most people have forgotten the true meaning and have lost sight of what really matters, including you, Mr. Bell.

And before I go,

Posted by Mr. Bell:

"They want to repeal DOMA and repeal the ban on the military ban on open homosexual behavior in the service, don't know about you but if I was another nation I would have no fear of a military of this nature!"

I was raised in the Baptist faith, but I don't understand how a "preacher" or "man of God" can openly hate and ridicule people who are different than yourself. I was always told that you are supposed to love the Sinner and hate the Sin, not both. They may not say, believe, or do the things that you believe, but it gives you no right to critize EVERYTHING that you disagree with, especially as openly as you do. Not everyone wants to hear your sour hearted opinions.

I saw this and thought for just a brief moment that you would take a sound stand againt the materialistic view of Christmas and have some real meaning in your writing, but I was so wrong. You use your blogs to chastise anyone and everything who is different from you. You send out a message to the people of this world that God hates everyone except for you and your followers. You, my dear, have seemed to take the idea of being a leader of Christ into making him sit back and watch how much better you can do his job. We will all be judge one day. I find it hard to believe that the Loving & Forgiving God that I knew would be the same one to idely sit back and not judge your work. You have more to be afraid of on Judgement Day than most of the homosexuals and other sinners out there. If that is the only sin they have committed, they will be better off than yourself. They may live in a life of what you call sin, but you sin every time you open your mouth or write words it seems. Your teachings are partly responsible for people losing faith.

The last hope I had left for Christmas and society finding a medium has been lost with your words. My family will celebrate Christmas and not care whether the tree is called "Christmas" or "Holiday". Merry Christmas to you too, and try to remember what Christmas is really meant to be and not be so obsessed about the world itself.

Actually Unique-Lies, according to our brilliant and illustrious leader, It is 57 states.

my computer has been down when I get it fixed I will respond to the comments.

cherokee2,

I never got that memo. Where are these other 7 states and which brilliant and illustrious leader (we have so many) came up with them? Which map is he going by?

When the United States, Canada and Mexico are joined as one unit in the One World Order, there will still only be 50 sovereign states in North America including Hawaii.

Yes, even Hawaii is one of the 50 Sovereign states and its people were given unalienable rights by their creator and our U.S. Constitution acknowledges this even though the Governor of Hawaii doesn't believe it.

Their Governor of Hawaii is doing an injustice to all the people in Hawaii by not knowing this. ( where did I read this tid bit-- The Times-Gazette

I would ask that everyone have patience, stop insulting Micheal, and give him the benefit of a doubt. Who among us has not repeated a rumor (if that is the case) at some point?

After all, it is the Christmas season and there should be peace and good will towards men especially when none of us deserve it.

People look to our pastors as a source of truth. When he puts out information he needs to be able to back it with facts.

-- Posted by wonderwhy on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 9:42 AM

I agree wonderwhy, to whom much is given much is required.

Actaully it was "up north" who was insulting his intelligence

I don't think his intent is to spread hate. He is in danger of being judgemental of someones Christianity perhaps. That doesn't mean he hates Obama or anyone who is a non-christian. That would be judgemental on our part.

Truthfully, I think everyone who posts on here is trying to sway the public. Why else do you voice your opinion?

I think those who lead should be held to a higher standard as they are setting the example for the rest of us, and pastors do fit into that category.

Obama said that the cops that arrested Mr. Gates made a stupid mistake. He also said he didn't have all the facts at the time he made the statement.

Even our president can make statements without the facts to back them up. We are all human and make mistakes.

The bigger man admits them repents and corrects them. We all deserve a chance to do that, whether it is a pastor, president, or blogger.

I am on here to tell everyone... they better STOP looking at their pastors, ministers, preachers and clergymen for the truth.

You must read it for yourself. There are hundreds of Unique lies being told by the church leaders everyday that just are not in the bible.

I have asked Christians to explain some of these Unique Lies and they answer with some stupid remark that has nothing to do with the question.

Your church pastors teach what they learn from other preachers and sideline books on religion.

After we are resurrected, we will have to answer these questions without the help of our pastors. Everyone better know what God's word really says.

If what I teach should be wrong, I have no one but myself to blame, but if I am right, and I think I am, then the churches are teaching Lies or things that are just not the truth.

When you ask your pastor a question you expect a truthful answer, but you don't always get it. You must ask where he is getting his answer so you can check it out for yourself.

I was taught that there is GOD, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit and all three are the same one God. Then we have Satan the evil one. Over the years we read that there are several Gods in the Bible. Before I read the bible I thought there were just different denominations of the same religion with God being the head, but just different rules and beliefs.

I eventually found out that there are hundreds of religions out there with their very own gods which are not Jehovah God. So that changes everything now. We have invited people into our country from all walks of life to move in and live here. They brought their own religions and gods with them.

Since our Constitution guarantees freedom of religion we must allow them to teach their religion to anyone who will listen. However, like Michael Bell says, we have a right to teach our religion also, but that isn't allowed in public places and schools (in some states or areas).

What does the bible say about that?

The bible says... that the world hated Jesus, so the world will hate the Christians also because it hated Him first. If the world didn't hate us, but listened to us, we would be greater than Christ and a servant can not be greater than his master.

The bible also says... When we are born again, we are dead to the world and alive in the spirit. We are to walk in the spirit as Jesus did and not of the world.

The bible goes on to say... that the anti-christ, false prophet and the two beasts will deceive the world and even be able to deceive his elect Christians if He doesn't return sooner.

They will deceive the world by eliminating our Christian God and Religion with their anti-christ prejudice laws and allow a One World Religion to take over. A religion that is not prejudice against sinners, homosexuals and lesbians, nationalities, sex, color, age or beliefs.

It will be a religion that teaches Lies! Look at the Unique Lies being taught today and think of how easy it will be for them to overtake the world. Teach everyone what they want to hear.

Things like once saved always saved. Raptured up when things get tough down here. Went to a better place when they just went in the ground to stay until resurrected. Gone home to be with the father. Only Christ went home to be with his father. Heaven is the home for God and Earth is the Home for man. We came from the earth and we return to the earth. Sinners are tormented and tortured in Hell forever and ever when Hell is thrown into the Lake of Fire to be destroyed once and for all.

The thing is all the answers are in the Bible. Read it for yourselves and learn the truth. There are too many bible translations out there to not be able to understand the Word of God.

People who say it is written in parables and is too hard to understand need to read a little further down because all parables had to be explained to His disciples. They are all explained and MORE.

wonderwhy,

The whole world is full of so many Lies that we can not possibly know what is the truth and what is a lie unless we research every thing that is said.

For example,

President Franklyn D. Roosevelt became a president and passed into law several bills before congress even convened to vote of these laws and before he was sworn in.

He made it a law to hoard Gold that belonged to the people by declaring them as the enemy to the United States anytime this country was at war or in a state of emergency. He then declared a state of emergency that has never been repealed to this day.

The punishment for hoarding gold was a $10,000 fine and or 10 years in prison.

What was never revealed to the public was the fact that the US Citizens listed in that law was the "Federal Citizens of the Territories, the slaves who were freed and immigrants who didn't have a citizenship before the 14th Amendment" but not the citizens of these united states. These other US Citizens also had to purchase licenses to do the same things that we the people have a right to do without being licensed.

Congress had to create new laws in order to rule these new citizens so they came up with the Uniform Commercial Code, or defacto law, also called "statutory law" but recognized as "the Color of Law" because they are laws that are in violation to the United States Constitution, but according to the U. S. Constitution are, in fact, legal laws to govern the new citizens of the Central Government because that is the only people who these laws apply to. If you don't object to being tried by these unjust laws, you are assumed to voluntarily agree to obey these laws and can be punished by them.

Just as God has hidden the truth in the bible for everyone to plainly read and understand with the help of the Holy Spirit, Congress and State Legislators have hidden the truth in the laws (Color of Law) that they pass. They are written to say one thing but actually mean something else.

Unless you understand the Bible with its truth about Salvation, Holy Spirit and Gods word you can only repeat what you have been told by others.

Unless you know all about the U.S. Constitution and State Constitution you can not get the full benefits of your God given rights secured to you by the constitutions.

Unless you know how the Federal and State Legislators have shafted you into believing they have full control over you, THEY DO!

These are Unique Lies that we have just come to live with because we never dreamed the Governments would do these things to us. They are Lies that we tell others about as though they were the truth and everyone accepts it as truth but in reality, they are Unique Lies.

You can research the web all you want to and half the people are telling the truth and the other half are speaking Unique Lies thinking it is the truth.

You must learn the truth because only the truth will set you free.

I eventually found out that there are hundreds of religions out there with their very own gods which are not Jehovah God. So that changes everything now.

Things like once saved always saved. Raptured up when things get tough down here. Went to a better place when they just went in the ground to stay until resurrected. Gone home to be with the father. Only Christ went home to be with his father. Heaven is the home for God and Earth is the Home for man. We came from the earth and we return to the earth. Sinners are tormented and tortured in Hell forever and ever when Hell is thrown into the Lake of Fire to be destroyed once and for all.

Posted by Unique-Lies on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 12:52 PM

Unique-Lies,

I thought you again posted less than a week ago you were through with spreading the false teachings of the Jehovah Witnesses?

Are we going to have to go back and copy and repaste all the scriptures that refute your false teachings again?

By all means I acknowledge your right to post their teachings but I ask for the same respect from you when I again refute all the false teachings again for you.

I thought you again posted less than a week ago you were through with spreading the false teachings of the Jehovah Witnesses?

Are we going to have to go back and copy and repaste all the scriptures that refute your false teachings again?

By all means I acknowledge your right to post their teachings but I ask for the same respect from you when I again refute all the false teachings again for you.

-- Posted by Blessed Assurance on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 2:17 PM

That is what I find so unappealing about religion. No matter what a person believes, there is always going to be someone out there that believes something totally different. I guess that is why I prefer math and science and see God in a much different way than many of you.

Maybe he will call it a Christmas tree to woo the ones that voted for him even more.

He claimed to be a Christian while denying that Jesus is the only way that disqualifies him in my book and God's also.

Just because Scopes or Snopes or what ever that site is states that something is false or true does not change my opinion of Obama either way.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 2:14 PM

Michael,

This comment just surpassed the idiocy of all the other ignorant comments you have made. YOU do not get to determine who is a Christian and who isn't and you certainly are in no position to offer commentary on God's opinion of the matter.

Mr.Bell YOU SAY,

"He claimed to be a Christian while denying that Jesus is the only way that disqualifies him in my book and God's also."

Where did you get that tid bit of information? Do share it so we can know it's factual and not another rumor your choosing to pass along.

My posts are not about what the tree is called but about how you choose to pass on any rumor you find that will help you try to manipulate others to help you in your mission of hate towards the president. It's the honesty that you seem to have no respect for. So do give us the source of where you get the comment that he says Jesus is not the only way to salvation along with the facts you used to get the other accusations in the above "story" you posted. Back your accusation with facts. You owe it to those whom your trying to lead. You like to represent the word of God, so tell us where it says that it's ok to spread false information to push your agenda of hate? Where does the word of God say it's ok to bear false witness ( it's your responsibly to be sure that what you preach and use to lead others is factual , honest and truthful).

Where did you get your information?

Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

This is practicing religion. Not warming a church pew every Sunday and Wed. night.

Posted by Liveforlight on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 3:47 PM

Practicing religion???

I hope people do not get that distorted and frustrated with the Gospel.

Religion can not save anything, even itself.

Practicing religion???

-- Posted by Blessed Assurance on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 6:14 PM

Practice makes perfect. Are you already pure/perfect in religion and undefiled? Yes, I know, we will never be perfect. Jesus to make perfect, mine is to love and obey.

That is the conviction the Holy Spirit has put on my heart. If yours differs, thats fine, I am not the judge of anothers servant.

The point is that "religion" has been confused with "Christianity". Christianity is about being Christ-like not religious. He gave us commands in both old and new testaments. If you claim to love him and do not do what he says, well.... that is between you and him.

I will not try to persuade anyone otherwise. I leave the work of the Holy Spirit to the Holy Spirit. I believe this is where the division that is so obvious to nathan and others springs from.

I believe this is where the division that is so obvious to nathan and others springs from.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Wed, Dec 9, 2009, at 8:20 PM

The division that is so obvious actually occurs when anything is mixed with or added to "Grace through Faith".

Blessed Assurance,

You posted: Most preachers of the Gospel have the core message right, just like it has been for centuries. They need to continue to preach it as such.

I was not aware of the Holy Bible only have a simple core message that preachers should continue to preach on and leave everything else out of their sermons.

You posted: No new revelation or secret needed.

God sent his angels to speak with John and show him visions, which they had to explain to him also so he could write the letters that went into the Book of Revelation, which by the way was not meant for the people in John's time but for the end times and last generation.

For years people have read Revelation and never knew what it was saying. Today people are starting to understand the Book of Revelation, so we are coming upon the last generation in the end times.

The Book of revelation has held secrets of the future that have never been understood, because it is a book of prophecy. Revelation is also the "revelation of Jesus Christ", which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw--that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

No secrets huh?

Daniel 12:6-10 (New Living Translation)

6 One of them asked the man dressed in linen, who was now standing above the river, "How long will it be until these shocking events are over?"

7 The man dressed in linen, who was standing above the river, raised both his hands toward heaven and took a solemn oath by the One who lives forever, saying, "It will go on for a time, times, and half a time. When the shattering of the holy people has finally come to an end, all these things will have happened."

8 I heard what he said, but I did not understand what he meant. So I asked, "How will all this finally end, my lord?"

9 But he said, "Go now, Daniel, for what I have said is kept secret and sealed until the time of the end.

10 Many will be purified, cleansed, and refined by these trials. But the wicked will continue in their wickedness, and none of them will understand. Only those who are wise will know what it means.

Then you posted: The Gospel is a simple message until Satan and his cohorts try to deceive.

I find the word of God is much more complicated than you let on. Otherwise many more people would be followers of Christ and not misunderstanding the scriptures. Why in God's name would anyone only want to read about salvation (the core message you must be speaking of) and not the rest of His Word? By not reading the rest of God's word would lead to being deceived as John tells us in Revelation.

And you continued with: The finished work of Jesus Christ is totally sufficient.

I am not sure what you mean by that because the work of Jesus Christ is far from being finished. If you have ever read Revelation you would know that.

No, Christians often try to redefine the word "religion", but that's exactly what Christianity is. You try to twist the meaning of the word to suit your needs and promote your beliefs, and to demean the status of other religions.

-- Posted by Richard on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 6:52 AM

No, Richard, this is what you do. Except you try to twist the meaning to promote your beliefs, and to demean the status of Christianity.

Now, I won't deny that some have tried to make Christianity into a legalistic religion, but they have it no more right than you do. If they have done something that has made you turn from the faith they will have to answer for that. But, whatever they may have done will not be a valid excuse for you when you stand before God.

I am sorry for whatever place you got mixed up in that embittered you, but Christianity has never been about religion, but a relationship. A relationship that means friendship with God and Jesus:

12 "This is my commandment, that ye love one another, even as I have loved you. 13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14 Ye are my friends, if ye do the things which I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I heard from my Father, I have made known unto you. John 15:12-15

I will continue to pray for you, but when you come on here and espouse your beliefs with general statements and no evidence for the things you say, I will answer you with the truth of scripture.

"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promises, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).

Mightnight Rider,

The definition of religion:

The Concise Oxford Dictionary:

"Human recognition of superhuman controlling power and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience"

Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary:

"a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with faith."

Webster's New World Dictionary:

"any specific system of belief and worship, often involving a code of ethics and a philosophy."

The definition of religion fits Christianity perfectly. I think to call it anything else is deceptive and dishonest. In my opinion, the whole "it's a relationship, not a religion" line is nothing but a deceptive ploy used by churches to lure in unsuspecting young people by assuming an unimposing outward appearance. It is a cheap way people use to sell their religion and appeal to "cool" non-religious people.

You believe in holy books that tell you what to believe. You pray to supernatural being that you believe can grant you wishes and send me to hell. To call it a relationship is just a blatant attempt to make it seem more rational.

You're a religious person. Sorry I had to be the one to tell you, but you might as well be honest about it.

"I will continue to pray for you, but when you come on here and espouse your beliefs with general statements and no evidence for the things you say, I will answer you with the truth of scripture."

-- Posted by Midnight Rider on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 7:54 AM

You might want to direct that statement to your fellow christian michaelbell, who made an obviously false statement about our president on this particular blog, but has not retracted the statement, edited the blog, or even admitted to the mistake.

"a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with faith."

-- Posted by Richard on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 9:25 AM

Christianity can be defined as a religion, yes I agree.

Being Christ-like is being transformed into the likeness of Christ. His atonement for my failures.

A holy birth (re-birth), loving God and neighbor, healing, self sacrifice,foregiveness, joy, peace, etc..

These are the values (foundation) that I admire in Christ and Christianity. Therefore I hold up Christ as my example of how I should be and what my value system should be based on.

We each have our own value systems. We are all educated and have heard the message of Christ. The calling is from the Holy Spirit not me.

I find these blogs fruitless, argumentative, peace robbing, sometimes hateful, and unworthy of the time it takes to post things on here.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

MAY GOD BLESS EACH AND EVERY ONE

GOODBYE

Blessed Assurance,

Please explain these scriptures for me!

28 The priest is to make atonement before the LORD for the one who erred by sinning unintentionally, and when atonement has been made for him, he will be forgiven.

29 One and the same law applies to everyone who sins unintentionally, whether he is a native-born Israelite or an alien.

30 " 'But anyone who sins defiantly, whether native-born or alien, blasphemes the LORD, and that person must be cut off from his people.

31 Because he has despised the LORD's word and broken his commands, that person must surely be cut off; his guilt remains on him.' "

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 10:04 AM

Unique-Lies,

Hard to explain anything properly without being able to put it in the context of the entire subject matter it came out of.

Without knowing the chapter or book to quickly find the context i can offer a simple and sufficient explanation for what it appears to be with out the context. It appears to be Old Testament scripture of a portion of the Law and a portion of the prescribed attonement which was a foreshadow of the attonement to come.

I will search for the context these reported scriptures came out of and express a more complete explanantion when I finish looking at the context.

While I am trying to find the answer to your question, could you answer mine that I have asked?.... ..............................."what is your only hope"?............and.............. "Surely you do not think that this executioner, that is your professed only hope, is of Christ? Do You?"

Yes,Christianity is a religion.

A marriage is a legal covenant.

But,if they are confined to those contexts and fail to involve loving,committed relationships,then they are missing the greatest part of why they exist.

In that sense,Christianity could lose the theology,the rituals and all the "trappings" and survive just on the personal bond between God and the individual.

We can love our families without the law.

We can love our country without "politics".

We can love (and be loved by) God without "religion".

I used to feel uncomfortable with "religion" and had heard the word "secular" misapplied as if it were inherently negative.

Either can be legitimate and positive forces and neither is in opposition or competition with faith or a relationship with God.

They are simply separate entities.

I don't think we are as well-served by attacking one another's mindsets as we would be by presenting important truths (as we know them) and revealing the effect of our knowledge and value systems on our lives.

We can insist on the superiority of what we have chosen for ourselves and apply coercion and ridicule to those who think differently or we can share our thoughts and "testify" with our conduct.

Think about it.

What would be the better way to sell ice cream?

Tell people only a fool or monster would reject a cone such as the one in your hand or having your smile get broader and brighter with every taste?

I think the latter would prompt more people to go for a "Big Lick" - even in the dead of winter.

It's from Numbers 15.

Sharon22,

I was just trying to show BA what she does to everyone. I have to stop and hunt for the book and chapter before I can answer her posts. It is very annoying.

I must say then that your message of Faith plus Works is not worthy of being tried and subjected to scrutinizing and rebuttal with scripture to you.

-- Posted by Blessed Assurance on Thu, Dec 10, 2009, at 6:10 PM

The message of faith plus works is the conviction of the Holy Spirit ON ME. I recognize my own arrogance and that of others to think that my view (or yours) is the only right one. I recognize Jesus as the only right way. If my view lines up with his then I need not worry about yours.

These blogs seem to me as a method for people to try to justify their own views. I have had no confirmation nor seen any evidence of any good fruit that has come from these blogs from any of the participants. Seems only suited to driving more internet traffic to the TG website and displaying the division that is already evident in the churches. Neither to me, are good fruits.

I believe my time will be better spent in prayer and in the work that is set before me. These blogs are a hinderance to both. The Holy Spirit is completely sufficient in his work and calls and convicts as he sees fit.

As I have already said we are all educated. We all have heard the message, have the scriptures to read, and convictions on our hearts from the Holy Spirit. His is the only scrutiny or rebutal I need worry about.

THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY

The above 4 scriptures in question pertain to atonement of sins, so it has to be in the old testament. You seem to know a lot about the atonement of sins so you should know about where to find it.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, Dec 11, 2009, at 12:15 AM

Unique-Lies,

Yes, that is what I answered just above your post when I said...."It appears to be Old Testament scripture of a portion of the Law and a portion of the prescribed attonement which was a foreshadow of the attonement to come."

Blessed Assurance,

Yes, that was the most basic, general description of all 4 verses.

That isn't what I asked you for.

I ask for you to explain these 4 verses to ME.

Explain what each verse is saying to you and what it means.

These scriptures are in Numbers chapter 15:28-31.

You posted to liveforlight:

There are a lot of spirits at work in the world and some can appear as an angel of light and readily deceive even the best of people's thoughts. Eve herself was not a bad woman.

First let me say your false teachings have depressed yet another Christian blog poster!

I disagree with you. Eve was more evil than Judas Iscariot.

Judas Iscariot did what he was destined to do before he was born and what Jesus told him to go and do. Even thou it was a sin against Jesus, Judas felt remorse and killed himself. Judas's betrayal help save the world by helping Jesus accomplish his mission of shedding his blood for our sins.

Eve on the other hand, did exactly what God told Adam they were NOT to do and caused every man, woman, child and animal to die on this earth.

1 Timothy 2:14

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

We could have all had eternal life if Eve could have just listened and obeyed Adam and God and not listened to Lucifer.

Women! Can't live with them, can't live without them and can't live forever because of the first one.

I don't read nor post from any Jehovah Witness Bible or text book. The NIV is not the Jehovah Witness Bible.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, Dec 11, 2009, at 12:02 AM

Unique-Lies,

Sorry if I made the mistake of questioning your source. It is easy to make that wrong assumption when I notice that 90% of your quotes and theories resemble the Jehova Witness, especially the "soul sleep" in the ground theory. I don't think you are currently a performing and conforming Jehova Witness. You rather appear to have been one at one time and left to create your own amplified versions of their basic teachings which are widely regarded as false even before you tune them up.

Also I might say that the NIV and the NWT are both almost identical in all their deletions and additions to the King James Version. So much to the point that Jehova Witnesses have used the NIV to quote from. Many articles are available to review on the almost exact similarities between the two on the web.

Let me correct something before you go off on the deep end.

I should have typed Faith plus Works blogger in the above comment since most all Christians will have Works that follow them. It's almost inevedible that Works will flow from a true Christian.

Blessed Assurance

you posted:

All teachings of Grace through Faith plus "ANYTHING" need depressing.

After you receive the Grace of God, you must do everything in your power to do good works and obey God's commands. We can not receive his grace then go out and sin and think you will be allowed in heaven.. You have been taught wrong. Jesus will tell you "I never knew you"!

Blessed Assurance

you corrected your post:

Let me correct something before you go off on the deep end.

I should have typed Faith plus Works blogger in the above comment since most all Christians will have Works that follow them. It's almost inevedible that Works will flow from a true Christian.

-> When we receive Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior we have already received the Grace of God or we would not seek Jesus, which Jesus tells us that we did not find him but He found us.

So it is our responsibility to not sin anymore because God lives in us and we Live in God.

1 John 4:15

15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

Romans 8:9

You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

So in other words You are judging Liveforlight as a phony Christian who has not received the Grace of God but is only doing works with his faith.

We must all have Faith and do good works until God gives his Grace to us and we can become born again. We can't just be born again because we want to or someone else wants us to. That is done by God when we show him our good works in this God forbidden world. Our works can only get his attention but not save us. That has o be done by Jesus and only AFTER God sends us to him.

Mr. Bell, I will not go away, you made accusations and now need to back them up. I know you read your column to see the comments you have stirred up so playing invisible will not do you any good. SO you have made several accusations between the story and your post that need backing up, you either posted falsehoods (and it is my guess you did so intentionally) or you were very neglectful and did not take the time to check your facts and just ran with it for the sake of drama and the hate agenda you tend to spew in your posts. If I am wrong give us the facts to back your accusations. Does your silence mean you have no facts? My guess is the answer to that is yes.........

Mr. Bell,

wonderwhy has asked you clarify something that does need some doing. The world does not end if you made a mistake. I should know, I make plenty of them everyday.

Either you have documentation to back up your claim or you do not. It has got to be one of the two.

It does make people "wonder why" you have not finished what you started.

We must all have Faith and do good works until God gives his Grace to us and we can become born again.

- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, Dec 11, 2009, at 3:44 PM

Show me that in the bible! That statement is tantamount to saying you must work for your salvation, which is clearly false teaching.

If I spoke lies, I would be just like the preachers.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, Dec 11, 2009, at 3:42 PM

Again you have called all preachers liars, and you proclaim to be the only one who has truth.

whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

-- Posted by Liveforlight on Fri, Dec 11, 2009, at 7:24 PM

Liveforlight,

Posting one verse out of context does not support or prove your false theory of Grace through Faith plus Works anymore than the following verse supports the theory of Grace through Faith plus Hatred :

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

You have to put every vesre in context with verses surrounding it, in context with the chapter they are in, in context with the book they are in, and finally and most importantly in context with the whole Gospel.

Grace through Faith plus "ANYTHING" is out of context and is not harmonious with the Gospel.

Perhaps if you read Galatians, especially the first three chapters, you will see why Paul was so upset with the foolish Galatians of whom he had presented the pure Gospel to and came back to find them bewitched. Bewitched and falling back into a Works based religion.

Instead of trying to qoute one verse and sustain a false theory why not instead take the whole Bible and rebuke the false theory Satan will bewitch Christians with.

Read the first three chapters of Galatians and tell me what you think Paul was upset with.

"Mr. Bell, I will not go away, you made accusations and now need to back them up."

i do not understand why you keep beating this dead horse. michaelbell has answered this question here, and he has answered it before.

to paraphrase; michaelbell is not interested in what is considered "true" due to it being factually correct, or supported by evidence. his belief system transcends "truth", allowing him to believe anything which pleases him.

I have never said that salvation comes from works. Salvation is by the grace of God. We have all failed in our works and thus need his salvation.

I did not intend to take anything out of context when I did not have the entire verse above. That was merely missing the verses above when I copied and pasted the main points.

You have placed Works into the equation, now explain it.

-- Posted by Blessed Assurance on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 9:34 AM

Mt 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mt 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Mt 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Mt 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Works follow grace. But to say no works are required, leads one to believe they can continue that same as they were before. They can continue as they were of course and receive their just rewards.

We will all receive our just rewards.

You said Eve was not bad. Based on what? That is your judgement of her. I make none.

Adam sinned because he listened to Eve. In many ways his sin was probably worse than hers. He place what she said above what God said. If I listen to you and continue without the works that God has placed on my heart, then I have done the same as Adam.

Do I believe my works will save me? Again as I have said before, NO! NO! NO! I am saved by grace to obedient works. Yet you continue to argue.

I have answered. I am done. I will answer no more of your argumentative questions. I am not even going to read anymore of this rhetoric.

http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/200...

He supports partial birth abortion, abortion for any reason, he is for the abomination of homosexuality, whether he calls it Christmas or a winter festival, or whatever is the least of this countries worries, his ties to Islam are the real worries.

Blessed Assurance,

You posted: All of your one or two verse comments above can be taken out of context to deceive and support your false theories.

Yes they could, but they were not. I only posted the verses that tells it like it is. I posted the Books, Chapters and verses so anyone can go and read the whole chapter if they want to to prove what I say is the truth. Only you can't understand the scriptures as they are written. If you read them (in their own context and content) you will see that they are explaining that we sleep when we die. To deny what these scriptures are saying is on your head.

You posted: In essence I am saying all your amplified Jehova Witness false teachings can be refuted by telling you to read the whole Bible minus your few (25-30) out of context verses you hinge your theories on.

You sure do seem to know an awful lot about the Jehovah Witnesses and their bible for some reason. Do you spend all your spare time studying with the cults and occults?

You want to remove 25-30 verses out of the bible so you can say I am a Jehovah Witness or that I am not a Jehovah Witness? Or are you saying these 25-30 verses in the bible should be removed and put in the Jehovah bible so the bible will read like you want it to?

And you don't like it when I do a little tuning with my bible stories just like all preachers do in their sermons.

I refuse to remove any scriptures from the bible, that is why I teach the way I do. I have to include these scriptures, good or bad.

I am not a Jehovah Witness nor do I study with them. But even if I did, that is no sin. All denominations are teaching lies.

Galatians 3:28-29

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Galatians 5:6

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love

Blessed Assurance,

When I post scriptures, I try not to post the whole chapter when I put the Book and chapter along with the verse number I am talking about or using as my proof to what I am saying.

Anyone can go straight to that verse and read the whole chapter if they need to until they understand it.

Then if anyone doesn't believe what I am saying let them come forth and show me scriptures that prove my scriptures are wrong and out of context.

To post that I take verses out of context is misleading because you can't answer them yourself.

Why haven't you explained to me Numbers 15:28-31. All you seem to know is that they are applying to atonement. I want them explained by you or are you not able to get past Salvation.

-> Hebrews 6:1-3

1 So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don't need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God.

2 You don't need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.

3 And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.

p://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/200...

He supports partial birth abortion, abortion for any reason, he is for the abomination of homosexuality, whether he calls it Christmas or a winter festival, or whatever is the least of this countries worries, his ties to Islam are the real worries.

-- Posted by michaelbell on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 12:09 PM

Yes he does support a woman's right to choose. As far as if he would choose abortion as an option in his life situations I have not heard. Most people who support choice would never ever consider to use that as an option in their own lives. And sadly should we look into both parties we will find them both well represented in the abortion clinics.

I do not approve of abortion, and I pro life, but like many conservatives who will not back the republicans I choose to be pro life from conception till the grave. If a person would deny a person basic health care after the cord is cut to me and many others they are no better than the mother who chooses to deny the fetus the heath care it needs to be born. You either respect the lives and well being of people or you don't, to say save the fetus then deny it heath care is in mine and many others opinion simply hypocritical. Life needs to be just as valued and protected after birth as it is before.

WIll you please tell what ties to Islam you are referring to?

The homosexual thing, well it is a sin true, but there are many sins that need to be considered, and at the end of the day we are all accountable for our sins, I find it odd that so many out their going crazy over this sin will spread any lie they find and not think twice about it, perhaps they should spend their effort on stopping lies since those lies are more damaging across the board, and effect more people than the homosexuals do. I guess it's a matter of what sin offends you the most, you know your not going to commit the sin of homosexuality so that ones easy to attack. Some of the other sins are a little closer to home.

Wow , a reference , I'm impressed. That's a start. Now if you can just in the future skip the lies and rumors and stick to facts and truth. It is never right to intentionally pass untruths no matter how much you hate. If you choose to continue your hate mission be prepared to have the references because you will be called to provide them. If they are just opinions present them as such.

It is funny though that you had to switch gears and find another hate message rather than provide the facts and references to the accusations you made here at the beginning. I will accept this as your admission to knowing they were lies and not having anything to back them up with, your lowly attempt to cover your butt and save face at the same time.

I don't consider another blog an acceptable reference for such accusations.

Again I say, more time and energy should be focused on the true spirit of Christmas (hope, love, giving) than on such petty judgments, accusations and in some cases, blatant hatred.

This blog and some of it's comments contain most of the very things that so many people find so distasteful about religion in general.

I knew that writing for public consumption might improve our vocabularies,grammar and such but it seems that arguments about allegations are going to have us including footnotes and bibliographies in our posts,as well.

It would be better that we re-enact our days in English class rather than mislead others or,through a faulty understanding or faulty rhetoric,give such a poor representation of our beliefs as messengers that we taint our message.

Perhaps,we could try our hands at Speech class,as well.

We could learn how to present our points with logic and without rancor or snarkiness.

We could increase our clarity and conciseness.

(I know that's an area in which I could improve.)

I'd hoped we could get by with speaking from our hearts according to the best of our knowledge and be able to enlighten and encourage one another.

I'd hoped that we'd know that we all have an imperfect understanding of the Word and a limited ability to act even as we know we should.

This would make us each a little wiser every day.

I like to think that we each have access to one line,one dimension.

By themselves,they may not amount to much but, when they are joined to offer support to one another,they have more substance.

Two dimensions gives us an image.

Three gives us something solid to deal with.

After that,we enter realms that man can only touch with his imagination.

As far as I know,we can't even imagine a state that is less than two dimensions and still has recognizable reality.

If that is true of us,then our ideas become more concrete when we offer what we have to one another.

In this way,we can even become a vessel to be filled with more Truth,more Love and more Being.

Or we can attempt to take away what length and breadth and depth is already present.

I'd like us to make the good we posess more tangible and more accessible.

Come,let us reason together.

A twig,by itself,may seem insignificant but it can help ignite a flame or keep one burning.

It can be bound with other twigs and make a great fortress.

Do we want to point out how finite we are as individuals or do we want to demonstrate how poweful we can be when united in a common purpose?

WonderWhy- I think you've mis-read my post. I was referring to Mr. Bell's reference to another blog to back up his remarks.

If you'll re-read the comments, you'll see that I was the one who directed him to Snopes. Which he apparently has deemed a source of liberal propoganda, for some reason. Most likely, because it contained a reference to Bush which he didn't approve of. Of course, I can't possibly know that for sure. It's mere speculation on my part.

In regard to the "religion" part of my post, I find the entire concept of one person deeming another person a non-Christian, because they disagree with you (or because they don't believe the exact same things you do) completely repulsive. This is one of the reasons that I will always consider myself a spiritual person and not a religious one. Sadly, many, many sins are committed in the name of religion.

I am not a Jehovah Witness nor do I study with them.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 1:06 PM

As I have said before, I do not think you are a performing or conforming Jehova Witness.

I do think that your teachings and beliefs though are very similar is not almost identical to theirs.

Why haven't you explained to me Numbers 15:28-31. All you seem to know is that they are applying to atonement. I want them explained by you or are you not able to get past Salvation.

-- Posted by -- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sat, Dec 12, 2009, at 2:44 PM

Unique-Lies,

I posted the verses you questioned and also one verse before them and a few verses after them to show you how much more can be understood by adding verses around them to bring them further into context. I even found the NIV translation to use since that is where your posted verses came from.

As you will notice verse 27 which precedes your verses mentions the offering for an unintentional sin. The vesrses you posted deal with an intentional sin. The few verses I posted after your verses deal with someone who had just committed an intentional sin of picking up wood on the Sabbath and was stoned to death as the Law required.

27 " 'But if just one person sins unintentionally, he must bring a year-old female goat for a sin offering. 28 The priest is to make atonement before the LORD for the one who erred by sinning unintentionally, and when atonement has been made for him, he will be forgiven. 29 One and the same law applies to everyone who sins unintentionally, whether he is a native-born Israelite or an alien.

30 " 'But anyone who sins defiantly, whether native-born or alien, blasphemes the LORD, and that person must be cut off from his people. 31 Because he has despised the LORD's word and broken his commands, that person must surely be cut off; his guilt remains on him.' "

The Sabbath-Breaker Put to Death

32 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.

This intentional sin of picking up wood on the Sabbath was just one of many which the people under the Law were convicted of and punished by death.

Be thankful we are under a better and superior covenant. One of Grace instead of Law.

BA,

You posted: Someone could mistakenly, with the prompting of Satan, take that verse and claim a very unique false understanding like you have with other verses.

Again you are judging me as someone who takes verses out of context and claim a very unique false understanding.

I copy and paste scriptures in context and use them as they are meant to be used. I encourage everyone to go to these verses and read them for themselves instead of reading what you and I have to say about them. (That is why I post the Book, Chapter and verses numbers)

You also posted: But most importantly all teaching leads to a hope? What is your "only hope"?

Teachings do not lead to hope! Well, maybe yours does.

Hope must come from the individual. Hope is the starting point

to what you have to muster up the Faith FOR. You have to have "Hope" for something before you need the "Faith" that you will get it.

Teaching leads to knowledge and understanding of God's Word.

(Matthew 15:1-9)

Matthew 16:12 (New International Version)

12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Now I ask you to explain Revelation 20:1-5 if you can. I did take notice that you could NOT explain Numbers 15:28-32!

-> Since you love to speak on Salvation and the good news, I would also like for you to explain John 3:16 to the best of your ability. I want you to squeeze the verse to get all the details and meaning you can out of this one verse.

Do not leave me with any reason to question what your interpretation is.

You also posted: As I have said before, I do not think you are a performing or conforming Jehova Witness.

I do think that your teachings and beliefs though are very similar is not almost identical to theirs.

If I was a JW I would be coming to your front door to preach to you. The only thing I know about Jehovah Witnesses is they are polite, they know where the scriptures are they use, they look after each other, don't believe in celebrating Christmas because it is a tradition, which the verses above prove them wrong, and they won't accept blood from others, but never asked them why they won't when Christ gave his blood for everyone.

You have to ask yourself, if my teachings are similar to theirs, then I am not alone in my beliefs although I guarantee you that I don't teach their teachings. I have never been to any of the meetings or services so I don't know what they teach.

Matthew 15:7-9 (New International Version)

7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

8 " 'These people honor me with their lips,

but their hearts are far from me.

9 They worship me in vain;

their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"

Now here I am going to explain these verses. You will say I am taking it out of context but it applies;

1. Jesus was warning them against what the Pharisees were teaching.

2. Jesus was talking about the Pharisees and Sadducees teaching false teachings.

3. The Pharisees were talking about the tradition of "the washing hands before eating" not about celebrating Christmas or any other holiday.

4. Jesus was speaking of man made traditions and rules of the Pharisees and religious leaders.

This is one of the reasons the Jewish Leaders had to have Christ eliminated, so they would still be in control of the Jewish Nation.

BA,

You posted the verses and included some others but you did not explain each verse and what is being said and meant. You only repeat the verses.

The verse you added before mine just tells us what the offering was for the average unintentional sin in order for God to forgive them.

Verses you added after the main verses I posted goes on to describe a man who sinned intentionally and was ordered put to death.

This person knew the laws of God and yet he willfully sinned or intentionally sinned so God would not forgive him and ordered him put to death.

You just added the examples to the verses but didn't explain anything.

If in the old testament God would not forgive anyone who intentionally sinned after knowing the law, why do you think God will keep on forgiving you today after you accept Christ, his only begotten son, Had God move in your temple, then willfully sin everyday?

Not many people no matter how powerful they were messed around with Jesus and his disciple because Jesus spoke with authority that the Pharisees were afraid of.

Also the answer you are looking for is that they weren't under the law anymore, so that law didn't apply. However, if they had broken a Roman law, they would have been punished. Or if they had done something against God's command, they would have been punished by God or not forgiven.

If I was a JW I would be coming to your front door to preach to you.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 4:38 PM

Unique-Lies,

Exactly. That is why I said I did not believe you were a performing and conforming Jehova Witness.

Your theories are very similar to their teachings though.

You have to ask yourself, if my teachings are similar to theirs, then I am not alone in my beliefs.....

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 4:38 PM

I never said you were alone with your teachings. Quite the opposite. There are a lot of Jehova Witnesses that believe almost exactly as you do. Few of your theories if any are unique to them. You have just tuned them up a little.

I believe current estimates are close to 7 million others have similar beliefs as you do while 2.1 billion people have differing beliefs among the Christian community.

If my math is right there are 300 Christians to every one Jehova Witness, but you still have 7 million more in the world close to you so don't feel like the Lone Ranger.

BA,

You posted: I actually think they changed it so people like you would know that they often are referring to the same thing and that Uncle Rufus is not snoring in the vase on the fireplace mantle like you would like us to believe.

You are right, they are wanting to show that sleeping and death represent the same thing except when it is used to imply some one is sleeping as in a nap or a night's sleep.

You wouldn't hear nor see a spiritual sleep.

What do you say about verse 16 in the King James Version. Did God tell Moses he would sleep with his fathers or go to heaven?

Did the Lord lie to Moses or did Moses sleep with his fathers when he died?

BA,

If my math is right there are 300 Christians to every one Jehova Witness, but you still have 7 million more in the world close to you so don't feel like the Lone Ranger.

Numbers are only statistics and mean nothing. The last time God Destroyed the world only 8 people out of the whole world population survived.

Out of the 2.1 Billion Christians, I wonder just how many really are true Christians.

Many people think they are a Christian simply because they are born into a Christian family or nation.

Others think being a church member or living a moral life makes them a Christian.

But a real Christian is one who has received Jesus Christ, and acknowledges Him as Lord and God and doesn't continue to sin.

Therefore I believe you can cut the Christian numbers in half or more.

With a world population of 6,803,229,360 people, a number like 2.1 Billion Christians world wide doesn't say much. And if you cut that number in half

that would be 1.1 Billion or 1-6th of the world population. Not very impressive at all to me even though I like to think I am in that number.

I know of no one nor heard of anyone teaching what I know, althou I do hear some evangelists starting to agree with some of the things I teach.

A lot of Jehovah Witnesses have the knowledge that I have but they just don't know how to put it all together, or in my opinion, they are under the control of their leaders and not allowed to think for themselves and change the way their lessons are taught.

Just another case of Christians giving Christianity a bad name.

Also the answer you are looking for is that they weren't under the law anymore, so that law didn't apply.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 6:06 PM

Jesus was walking with them in the corn field when they plucked the ears of corn to eat. we will never know if they asked Jesus if they could or if they would be stoned if they did or whatever.

All we know for sure is they deliberately picked the ears of corn to eat and Jesus laid into the Pharisees when they questioned it. Nothing was done about them picking the corn. You are right though, they did pick the corn on the sabbath so it was a sin or the Pharisees would not have said anything.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Dec 14, 2009, at 12:53 AM

Unique-Lies,

So when we put everything together you have said thus far, we see that the very disciples of Jesus intentionally sinned while out from under the law and under grace. According to you and your theory, then the disciples were unforgiven and hell bound.

Do you now see the error of your false theory?

Actually the answer to my question was in verse 7 right after the first 6 verses had discussed the corn picking on the Sabbath and Jesus gave it well:

7But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Uniquelies,

You seemed to be ashamed of your "only hope" and unwilling to devulge him and of whom his father is?

You should take pride and give glory to your "only hope".

Why do you keep him in the closet?

Actually, while no company that I know of disallows christian screen savers or desktop bibles, you're right in assuming that many of us do find the trappings of christianity pretty hollow. I'm not gay, but I do confess to a thoroughgoing distaste for christians and their holier-than-thou attitudes, and I do avoid retailers that insist on rubbing my nose in holiday medievalism.

Stay in the closet, christians, as you would have others stay in their own.

-- Posted by tomsj on Sun, Dec 6, 2009, at 7:26 PM LOL WHO LET THIS IGNORANT BABBOON CRAWL OUT OF HIS BROWN ENDED BROOMSTICK FILLED CLOSET ANYWAYS MAY YOU ALL HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS SAY IT TO EVERYONE.EVEN WHEN YOU SEE ONE OF THOSE FALSE GOD ALLAH PRAISING IMMIGRANTS MAKE SURE TO TELL THEM MAYBE ONEDAY GOD MIGHT FORGIVE THEM WHO KNOWS AND ANY ATHEIST THE SAME.IM SURE IT WOULD BE GREAT TO SEE A DEBATE BEWTEEN POEPLE LIKE TOMSJ AND OTHERS OF HIS IGNORANCE AND SOME LOCAL PASTORS INCLUDING MR.BELL I BET IT WOULDNT BE THE PREACHERS AND BELL GOING HOME LOOKING STUPID.GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND A MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM THE LOCAL COUNCIL OF CONSERVITIVE CITIZENS

Unique-Lies,

Sorry, but the post to the link was only to show you that your views are not unique but actually quite in line with the Jehova Witness'. I know the truth stings but it is what it is. Sorry if it burst your bubble of pride and ego to find out that your theories were actually conceived and proclamated almost a century ago by this group. Taze Russell beat you to the uniqueness of those teachings almost 100 years ago.

Ya know... this whole thing is sad. So what. Whatever it is called..Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, winter solstice... whatever. the Word says that the "world" would know we are Christians because we Love one another. Not gripe about gays, not fuss about Muslims, Not nit pick about what to call whatever day it is. Is not EVERY day the Lord's day?

How about loving the one who has AIDS, how about serving the hungry whether they are Muslim, Hindu or Buddist? Jesus said when you have done to the least of these....(nobody was Christians yet) you were doing Unto Him.

Try to see Christ in his distressing disguise.. where ever and what ever it is.. Drag Queen, Gay boy toy, pissed biker, Muslim, Hindu... whom ever.

Matt. 25:31-40 is pretty clear. It does not say if you memorized a bunch of verses, If you went to the so and so church, if you were a good little christian always griping about liberals... Read IT Again and GO and DO likewise.

In the first example Jesus plainly tells us the girl is not dead, but sleeping. We do not know the exact nature of her condition. She may have fell unconscious, or lapsed into a coma, but we do know that her sleep is not death.

-- Posted by Midnight Rider on Tue, Dec 15, 2009, at 1:47 AM

I will go on record now as saying I could possibly be wrong about this passage because a man whose teaching I respect very much says that it is death, but only a temporary death, and not the type of sleep/death that Unique-lies espouses.

In a 2004 interview with Cathleen Falsani of The Chicago Sun-Times, then-U.S. Senate candidate Barack Obama said: "I believe that there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people," (Interview with Cathleen Falsani, The Chicago Sun-Times, March 27, 2004).

Obama's "many paths" understanding of faith is in direct contradiction with Jesus' declaration of exclusivity. In the Gospel of John, Jesus is quoted as saying: "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6, NKJV)

Obama told Falsani that he retains a "suspicion of dogma" and refuses to think he has a "monopoly on truth." He added that his prayers aren't "formal" in any sense, but more an "ongoing conversation" with God as he works through questions and issues.

Stephen Mansfield, who has profiled the faith of several American political figures, says Obama "is the product of a new, postmodern generation that picks and chooses its own truth from traditional faith, much as a man customizes his meal at a buffet" (Mansfield, Stephen. The Faith of Barack Obama. Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 2008, p. 52).

Barack Obama and Jeremiah Wright

Fueling the controversy of Obama's faith even further is his 20-year association (now terminated) with Dr. Jeremiah Wright and Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ. Of those familiar with Wright, most know of the Chicago pastor's zealous attacks on the United States, including his odd charge that the U.S. government used HIV/AIDS as a weapon against blacks and that the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 were America's "chickens coming home to roost."

What most Americans don't understand is that Obama became attached to Wright in the mid-1980s, because of the latter's passionate embrace of "Liberation Theology," a school of thought that redefines orthodox Christianity, grounding it in the exercise and expression of social activism.

The New York Times described Wright as a "dynamic pastor who preached Afrocentric theology, dabbled in radical politics and delivered music-and-profanity-spiked sermons" (Kantor, Jodi. "A Candidate, His Minister, and a Search for Faith." The New York Times, April 30, 2007).

Though Trinity United professes a belief in the divine Christ, the congregation is deeply committed to an Afro-centric perspective of social justice. Not only does the Pan-African flag grace the front of the church, but Dr. Wright presented the Bible "as truth sprung from African soil"

Obama formally severed ties with Wright during the 2008 presidential campaign, but the Chicago pastor's influence on Obama is undeniable.

Is Barack Obama a Christian?

Though he classifies himself as a Christian, Barack Obama derives his theological beliefs more from personal reflection, life experience, and an Afro-centric perspective of "Liberation Theology" than from any careful study of the Bible or fidelity to biblical inerrancy. This selective, postmodern approach to Christianity has left him understandably vulnerable to many critics.

Before you say that I am taking one comment out of texr, is that not what the secularist and the ACLU did with Jefferson's?

In a 2004 interview with Cathleen Falsani of The Chicago Sun-Times, then-U.S. Senate candidate Barack Obama said: "I believe that there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people," (Interview with Cathleen Falsani, The Chicago Sun-Times, March 27, 2004).

HERE IS MORE OF THE INTERVIEW SO WE CAN READ IT IN IT'S FULL CONTEXT.

If an hourlong conversation about his faith unnerves him, Obama's not letting on.

The first question he fields without hesitation: What does he believe?

"I am a Christian," the 42-year-old Illinois state senator and Democratic candidate for the U.S. Senate says, as one of the nearby customers interrupts to congratulate him on his recent primary win. Obama shakes the man's hand and says, "Thank you very much. I appreciate that," before turning his attention directly back to the question.

"So, I have a deep faith," Obama continues. "I'm rooted in the Christian tradition. I believe that there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people.

"That there are values that transcend race or culture, that move us forward, and there's an obligation for all of us individually as well as collectively to take responsibility to make those values lived."

It's perhaps an unlikely theological position for someone who places his faith squarely at the feet of Jesus to take, saying essentially that all people of faith -- Christians, Jews, Muslims, animists, everyone -- know the same God.

That depends, Obama says, on how a particular verse from the Gospel of John, where Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me," is heard.

Midnight Rider,

You posted: You contradict yourself with both statements. And in the second one you contradict yourself in the same sentence.

Either you believe the word of God or YOU have to change it to not believe we sleep when we die.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 5:37 PM

You are right, they are wanting to show that sleeping and death represent the same thing except when it is used to imply some one is sleeping as in a nap or a night's sleep.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Dec 13, 2009, at 10:49 PM

--> With all the scriptures in both the old testament and new testament that say we sleep when we die, and I have only presented a few but not all, it makes no sense to me why anyone would deny these scriptures as being the truth!

In the second sentence I agree that the bibles use the word sleep to represent both the normal sleep of our bodies and also to represent the state of death when someone dies. I won't keep posting the verses but there are many, many verses using the word sleep as a sign of death or dying.

Genesis 2:7 (King James Version)

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Man does not have a separate soul. Man became his own living soul at birth.

So when we die, our bodies go back to the dust of the earth and the soul sleeps. If you are reborn, you received the Holy Spirit (God) that dwells within you. Jesus baptized us with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Ghost being the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. All are one and the same God. When we die, this Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit returns to God because it IS God and no longer needs to remain in a soul that is sleeping in the grave or bottom of the ocean or in ashes where ever it died.

Here is some proof that we ARE a soul with a tent of flesh covering it.

Joshua 10:28-39 (King James Version)

28-39 tells us that Joshua destroyed all the souls that were therein. So we are souls with flesh.

and Leviticus 23:30 (King James Version)

30 And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.

and in Acts 27:37 (King James Version)

37 And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls.

Now look what happens when we use another translation:

Joshua 10:28-39 (New International Version)

Joshua kills people and leaves no survivors but does not use the word souls

Leviticus 23:30 (New International Version)

30 I will destroy from among his people anyone who does any work on that day.

again does not use the word souls

Acts 27:37 (New International Version)

37 Altogether there were 276 of us on board.

Notice the lack of the word souls?

Just using an easier Translation of the bible can change and hide the truth just because a word isn't used.

By using this word souls in these scriptures we can easily see that we are not just a man or woman but a living soul. Without using the word "souls" we have no proof of what God done in Genesis 2:7.

Even Genesis 2:7 (in the New International Version doesn't use the word Soul)

7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

The verses in both bibles give us the basis idea of what God is saying, however if we want to understand all that God is saying to us we must use older bible that haven't been translated down into children's verses.

Sometime I need to look verses up in the easier translations to make sure of what a scripture is telling me.

You posted: In biblical times, death was still a very scary subject, so the word sleep is often a euphemism for death to make it less unpleasant. It was not used in the sense of what we think sleeping is today.

It was actually used in both instances in the old and new testament.

Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

Matthew 26:40-45 Jesus's disciple fell asleep when they were suppose to stay awake and watch with him. (this is normal sleep)

Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead but told his disciple he had to go and wake Lazarus because he had fallen asleep (or dead), but because his disciples didn't understand what Jesus was talking about, Jesus told them that Lazarus was dead. (Here Jesus uses the word Sleep instead of dead, but has to confess that Lazarus was actually dead.)

You posted: The greek word used in Mark 5:39, your reference for the little girl sleeping is katheud-- is also the same word used for to describe the disciples sleeping in the garden of Gethsemane Mark 14:37-41.

If you look up the word sleep in a dictionary, it will do the same thing. It defines sleep as cease being awake, to be dormant, to take rest and also to lie in death.

The same English word means two different things just as the Greek word means two different sleeps.

Now in Mark 5:40 we see the parents laughing at Jesus Christ who at this time came highly recommended as a person who could help the girl.

Would these parents (or any parents) of a girl whom they knew by all signs was dead, start laughing at a doctor who said she is just sleeping, unless they thought he was a Quack? These parents knew their girl and knew what death was so they knew she had died and was not just sleeping.

People back then knew just as much about a lot of things as we do today. It doesn't take an expert to tell if a child is not breathing or has a heartbeat.

40 And they laughed him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying.

Jesus told the damsel to arise, not wake up! The parents were astonished with a great astonishment. They were shocked in other words not just happy because she woke up from a nap or comma, but because she was alive again.

You posted: In the first example Jesus plainly tells us the girl is not dead, but sleeping. We do not know the exact nature of her condition. She may have fell unconscious, or lapsed into a coma, but we do know that her sleep is not death.

Then you and your teacher, that you listen to, assume that Jesus went to this 12 year old girl knowing she wasn't dead but just sleeping just to shake her and tell her to arise?

Now in God's name, how does that theory glorify God the father in his Son Jesus Christ for merely waking a child from her sleep? When Jesus performed miracles he performed miracles not just waking up sleeping people and looking stupid in front of man.

You posted: The Greek word used to describe the condition of Lazarus in John 11-11 is koima--, which is to be dead. Two verses later Jesus had to tell them plainly that Lazarus is dead.(v.14)

That is the beauty of it all. Lazarus WAS Dead! Jesus purposely waited two days before taking the two day journey to Lazarus's tomb so he could let his disciple see him raise Lazarus from the dead.

The word sleep was used to signify that the dead sleep.

You posted: In the second instance, we are told plainly that Lazarus is dead, not sleeping in the sense that you describe.

Lazarus is dead period, yet Jesus tells his disciples "Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep". So, Jesus had to explain to them that Lazarus was actually dead.

Sleeping in the sense that I describe it, in this case, is Lazarus is dead and his soul is sleeping in death, not napping in his tomb. His body is dead and decaying in his tomb, but his soul is sleeping.

Acts 7:59-60

59 and they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

After Stephen was martyred, "he fell asleep". This means Stephen died when he was stoned to death, he did not just lay down and go to sleep with big stones pounding against his flesh and breaking his bones and smashing his head in.

Sleep is used to describe the state of being in death and to also describe when someone was just resting.

2 Corinthians 5:8 is not complete until you have read verse 10, the judgment seat that we must all appear before.

2 Corinthians 5:8

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Nothing here in any of these verses that say "WHEN WE DIE WE GO TO HEAVEN!" It says we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ which is on the last day.

However, when IS this judgment seat presented to us? (Rev 20:7-15) We are not judged when we die but long after we are resurrected. Satan has to be released again to go out and deceive the nations again for a short while, then Christ destroys the people who came against his people and holy city with fire from heaven!

THEN it says we are judged (Rev 12-15) and our bodies take on a immortal body (1 Corinthians 15:51-54) and we go to the new heaven or the new earth because the world is destroyed by fire from heaven.

You posted: Again, the Greek word for "to be present" is endémeo, which is a compound of the two Greek words "en" and "demos", and the translation means "to be in one's own country, to be at home"

I came from the earth not heaven so my home is in the earth.

Psalm 115:15-17

15 Ye are blessed of the LORD which made heaven and earth.

16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Here the Bible says that the dead do NOT Praise God, so you don't go to heaven and praise God. You lay in your grave and your soul sleeps until it is resurrected.

Romans 11:7-8

7 So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened.

8 As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."

If one reads the passage in context, you will clearly see that Paul is telling them that when the believe dies, his spirit, soul is taken to heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:54)

... Death is swallowed up in victory. That happens on the last day not when everyone dies.

John 6:44 (King James Version)

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Nothing here in any of these verses that say "WHEN WE DIE WE GO TO HEAVEN!"

No one goes to heaven until the last day which is after we are judged.

You posted: It is the Spirit (Holy Spirit of God) that returns to heaven when we die not our soul.

This not a correct translation of the verse. Again the original Greek for the phrase the spirit shall return to God is ruach (Strongs# 7307) which means breath or wind spirit. No where does it indicate the Holy Spirit.

Each of us have demons and good spirits. The bible says we inherit our father's sin. These are the wind spirits that communicate with mediums and psychics. I don't believe these spirits return to God or they would not be available to the mediums and psychics. These are the spirits that roam the earth if anything.

The Holy Spirit is the only spirit I know of that returns to God because it IS God.

The body of man is described as becoming a soul by the breath of life, but the bible tells us we sleep when we die so that would be our soul. ("We" would therefore be our "Soul").

I say preachers are teaching lies because they have learned it from man not the Holy Spirit. Not all teachings are false or Lies but many are.

To say when we die we go to heaven, is a lie because nowhere does the bible tell us that.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (King James Version)

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Here in verse 16 we read that the Lord himself shall descend from heaven and the dead in Christ shall rise first. SO they have not gone to heaven when they died at all. So that teaching must be a Lie.

In the next verse 17, "Then we which are alive and remain"... remain til when? Til Christ returns. Look closely. Paul said Christians will "be with the Lord" when He returns. Jesus taught the same thing when He promised His disciples, "I will come again, and receive you to Myself" (John 14:3).

Again, look closely. Jesus did not say, "I'll meet you in Heaven when you die," but that He would receive us when He returns.

To stand before the people and tell them their loved one is in heaven or gone home to be with their father or God has taken him home to be with him is a lie to make them feel better about their loss.

God does not take people, he protects his children if they believe and have faith and pray.

Read the book of Job. God allowed Satan to tempt Job by any means he could come up with except taking Jobs life.

To preach that all the christians go to heaven when they die, or all christians will be raptured up is a lie because Christ has to return ahead of schedule to save his SAINTS! These saints are here on earth so they weren't raptured up.

To teach that all the Christians are raptured up except the 144,000 Jews who have to stay here and preach the gospel to the sinners is a lie. God would not rapture his saints and leave other saints here.

To teach God's people will be raptured out of the tribulations is a lie. The bible says he will protect them "FROM HIS WRATH", not the wrath of the beast and false prophet and satan.

Jesus said the Beast must come into power before he is returning.

You posted: Well, well, isn't that a nice bit of semantics. You say someone is preaching lies, but yet you are not calling them liars.Just what are you calling them?

1 John 2:22

Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.

However, whoever you are hearing the Word of God from, you should read and study the scriptures for yourself-make sure your pastor is preaching from the bible. If you find you disagree with him on some issue-go to him and tell him and discuss it with him. Don't go around complaining to everyone in the church-that is just causing division in the body.

I don't learn from any one preacher. I study my bible(s) and watch to see what preachers are teaching to confirm or deny my beliefs.

Galatians 1:12

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

You posted: Ultimately, there is only one way to enter heaven and that is by Jesus,and Jesus alone: Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. John 14:6 (NAS)

And it is only by grace that you are saved, not of good works:

John 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

You posted: I will go on record now as saying I could possibly be wrong about this passage because a man whose teaching I respect very much says that it is death, but only a temporary death, and not the type of sleep/death that Unique-lies espouses.

When we die, our soul sleeps but it is a temporary sleep/death because we are Resurrected from this sleep when Christ returns. However, those who died years ago are still sleeping waiting to be resurrected.

Psalm 13:3 (King James Version)

3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

Daniel 12:2 (King James Version)

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Please read my post and check it out with your preacher/teacher/pastor/clergyman. Do NOT take my word for the truth or a Lie. Only you can find the truth with the help of the Holy Spirit.

"They may not always back the causes we like but they do seem to support freedom and fairness."

QC, i am very impressed. here when it is so popular to decry the aclu, because it wont let us impose our beliefs on others, you have the independence of thought to recognize that it also does not allow others to impose their beliefs on us. i suspect i will still disagree with you often enough, but i will do so with all due respect!

and for michaelbell a question:

this post is not the first time you have repeated accusations which you admit are not true, justifying them by saying it is what you want to believe. i am just curious. you are so tore up about homosexuals, altho you have to parse the bible to justify your condemnation of homosexuality, yet you feel you have some special dispensation to bear false witness, which is among the 10 specifically ennumerated sins? are you personally exempt from the teachings of the bible?

Unique-lies, where have you gotten your definition of sleep from?

Which tv preachers confirm your conclusions?

Which tv preachers deny your conclusions?

Again, where do you get your definition of sleep from? Because in many of your verses that you quote, the original Greek uses different words that have different meanings pertaining to death and sleep. Example, you posted:

"Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;"

So, did God kill Adam, take his rib, and then bring him back to life? In other words was Adam temporarily dead? Because the Greek word here is not the same one used in the passages concerning the young girl and Lazarus.

You posted: The greek word used in Mark 5:39, your reference for the little girl sleeping is katheud-- is also the same word used for to describe the disciples sleeping in the garden of Gethsemane Mark 14:37-41.

"If you look up the word sleep in a dictionary, it will do the same thing. It defines sleep as cease being awake, to be dormant, to take rest and also to lie in death.

The same English word means two different things just as the Greek word means two different sleeps."

The problem is that you are using one word that has different meanings according to the context you want it to fit. Then you say the Greek word does the same thing. The error there is that it is not ONE Greek word that has several meanings. There are SEVERAL different Greek words for sleep that are used in context with what is being said.

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

To this verse you responded:

You posted: Again, the Greek word for "to be present" is endémeo, which is a compound of the two Greek words "en" and "demos", and the translation means "to be in one's own country, to be at home"

I came from the earth not heaven so my home is in the earth.

So, now you are saying Paul is wrong, and you are right? I read what you said about waiting for verse 10, but that just does not fit what Paul says. He says to be absent from the body is to be PRESENT with the Lord, or to be at home with the Lord. That means immediately, not later.

Your pithy answer also denies biblical doctrine that tells us that the earth is our temporary dwelling and that heaven is our home.

Upon death, our soul is separated from this corrupt vessel and goes to the be with the Lord while our body "sleeps"

You posted:

"No one goes to heaven until the last day which is after we are judged."

Will you say that Jesus is a liar? Consider that He told the thief on the cross next to Him:

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke 23:43 (KJV)

And, we know that there are others in heaven, Elijah and Enoch.

Lets not forget Stephen:

59 and they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. 60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Acts 7:59-60(Whatever version you used)

recieve my spirt 60(KJV)

receive(Greek:dechomai= accept,recieve; both present tense) my(Greek:mou= I,me,mine (own)my) spirit(Greek:pneuma=wind, spirit)

Also, what will you do with all those souls crying out from under the alter?.

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Revelation 6:9-10 (KJV)

Here, let me anticipate your argument, this is not complete until you add verse 11:

And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (KJV)

Let's see, the word rest is used here. Will you try to say that God woke them up, brought them to heaven to cry out, then gave them robes and sent them back to "sleep"

Don't even bother.

You wrote:

Please read my post and check it out with your preacher/teacher/pastor/clergyman. Do NOT take my word for the truth or a Lie. Only you can find the truth with the help of the Holy Spirit.

I have read your post, laboriously, and find them to be full of contradictions and errant teaching.

Why at the very end you contradict another of your misguided interpretations that punishment for the sinner is not eternal.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2 (King James Version)

Everlasting contempt sounds pretty eternal to me, considering the same verse tells us we have everlasting life. ETERNAL!

I also found something Jesus said for you:

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal Matthew 25:46 (KJV)ETERNAL

I am done, I am going to take Paul's advice (I probably should have heeded it earlier):

9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. Titus 3:9-11 (KJV)

Let's take the parable in the Book of Luke where Jesus tells us about the rich man and Lazarus.

Hey, this was just a parable that could not have happened as Jesus explained it to the people

Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Oct 26, 2009, at 6:11 PM

AND

Posted by the Jehova Witness publication of The Watch Tower from 1920 through today.

Those who are caught up in the air are the 144,000 who return with Christ.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Tue, Apr 1, 2008, at 3:24 PM

AND

Posted by the Jehova Witness publication of The Watch Tower from 1920 through today.

Can someone please give Blessed Assurance and Unique Lies their own chat room??? Add each other on an instant messenger service and carry on there... these 1,000 word responses to each other is becoming ridiculous. Does it have anything to do with the blog? Nope... it is clear you two don't agree, so please move on!!!!

a ONE WORLD ORDER

HERE IT IS!

By Dana Milbank

Wednesday, November 11, 2009

The New World Order came into being at 4:25 Tuesday afternoon.

The One World Government was on open display at the Capitol on Tuesday, as international U.N. staffers waited outside the room where Ban spoke to the senators. The secretary general had come with his own world government (armed?) security detail, who stood alongside the Capitol police.

Lord Christopher Monckton of Britain, told Beck that "at Copenhagen, a treaty will be signed that will, for the first time, create a world government with powers to intervene directly in the economy and in the environmental affairs of individual nations." Earlier on Fox News, Dick Morris informed Hannity that President Obama "believes in One World Government." And author Jerome Corsi went on Hannity's show to warn about a One World Government in which "our sovereignty would be subject to the dictates" of the United Nations and other international organizations.

Source: Washington Post Nov 11, 2009

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

Hmmm...

I was worried about all those sinners outside the city but,if they've got dogs with them,they won't be without a source of love.

Maybe,they believed in God enough to escape the lake of fire but couldn't believe in themselves enough to run to the Father and let Him bring them all the way Home.

Perhaps,having no better expectations than the Prodigal Son,they wait out in the yard certain that God could never want them in His family.

If they've already decided to love the Lord more than their sin,then He will cast out their fear along with any other demonic taint and welcome them to the place He has for them and to the celebration of their homecoming.

As for those who refused to bond with God,whatever punishment they might receive could not equal the joy that they rejected.

Uniquelies,

I also add that your theory of all preachers are telling unique lies is most absurd.

Actually when you look at it objectively you would have to say that the 299 out of 300 preachers are more closely preaching "common truths" and the 1 out of 300 is more likely preaching the "unique lies" you speak of.

Blessed A,

You posted: Fortunately, only one out of approximately three hundred, fall for the deceptions.

299 out of 300 recognize the false teaching as such and disregard them immediately upon hearing them (each time).

-> Since I do not teach what the Jehovah Witnesses teach, the correct numbers would be 1 out of 2.1 billion, but if you only count true Christians I would be 1 out of 1.1 Billion Christians.

If you could consider 1.1 Billion people in the world as being true Christians, you have to take into count that 3/4 of those Christians can't answer questions in the Bible and have no idea where to find the answer. They only go through the motions of going to church and listening to only what is being feed to them by the preachers and take on the look of a church going Christian to impress others. How many have actually gone up to the altar and been saved?

299 out of 300 Christians will stay with their church and believe what they are taught so they don't have to read the bible. I doubt if 200 of the 299 Christians even have or know where a bible is in their home.

Christians who listen to preachers, theologians and other Evangelists don't believe the whole world was Flooded in the days of Noah or that Noah's ark could hold all the animals or it could rain that much to flood the earth.

Some think the bible is prejudice against women so it is a man's bible and not a true bible. Some bible experts agree with scientists and archeologists instead of God's word. That has to confuse the Christians.

Many theologians want the Book of Revelation removed from the bible because it is not in harmony with the rest of the bible.

There are many Christians that believe Mary Magdalene was married to Jesus and hid away in France after Jesus ascended, simply because of the movie, "The DA Vinci Code".

Even the Christian Bible Experts agree with these false documents.

Christians find it easier to just believe what the church teaches instead of learning it for themselves and have to answer questions.

uneed lies,

it is called satire. and while the guy isnt art buchwald, his stuff is pretty darn funny. however, using it as a "source" is a whole lot funnier than the original piece, and probably says all that needs to be said about the seriousness fo the "one world order" threat.

To all Jehovah Witnesses,

Please tell me if I teach what your religion teaches or if my teachings are entirely different.

-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Fri, Dec 18, 2009, at 1:26 AM

Unique-Lies,

There is a world of information available at your fingertips to answer your question (which you already know the answer to).

Simply google the phase.....soul sleep and the Jehova Witness.

Simply google the phrase.....144,000 and the Jehova Witness.

Simply google the phrase.....annihilation and the Jehovah Witness.

Simply google the phrase.....Works based salvation and the Jehova Witness.

You are not teaching any secrets only revealed to you. You are teaching century old false teaching that 299 out of 300 reject and label as babblings of the mouth and foolishness.

I might say that you do have a somewhat unique "only hope" though.

Satan can deceive the best of man.

Blessed A,

I can get all kinds of information off the internet. One website says one thing and another might say the opposite. I want to hear it from the horse's mouth.

I think you will find that the Jehovah Witnesses don't have much use for me.

However, since they do go door to door spreading the word of God, they more than likely will never be reading this blog. They are too busy planting seeds to be arguing his truth on the internet.

As I have said before, you do appear to be a conforming and performing Jehova witness.

Correction:

As I have said before, you do "NOT" appear to be a conforming and performing Jehova witness.

Unique-Lies,

I have some friends and even some distant family who are Jehova Witnesses. I respect them for their beliefs just as they do me for mine.

I am not judging them but rather discerning false teachings.

Just as Paul withstood Peter to the face at Antioch for the willful sin of dissimulation was not judging Peter but rather discerning the sin.

The main point of my recent post however have been to show you that you have not been revealed some secrets that are worthy of your prideful boastings. Your theories and teachings are nearly a century old at least and are still widely rejected today by 299 out of 300 Christians.

Most of your and the Jehova Witness false teachings are relatively harmless to the soul except the "works based salvation" one that could have eternal consequences to the misled of that belief.

Satan loves his deceived ones to teach that one for him.

BA,

I know of no religion that teaches Salvation coming by works.

The Catholic Religion is the closest religion to that, because they tithe the church to pray their loved ones into heaven (after they have died), or so my Catholic bother-in-law explained to me. The more the family tithes, the more the church prays. This is hearsay from my Catholic brother-in-law who has no reason to make it up or lie about it to me.

I for one have never heard a Jehovah Witness teach that good works will get anyone salvation.

They come on strong with that saying "you only have to live and pay taxes until you die" then they ask "Did you know you don't have to ever die?", that's when I reply to them, "Did you know you don't have to pay Taxes until you die, either?"

Blessed Assurance,

Thank you for your concern and hope you had a Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year before we start the new year off with more...?

I will try to keep my posts down to a minimum but wished more Christians would jump in and share their knowledge with us.

That is what it is all about.

This is what Jesus meant when he said " Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." (John 6:65)

"I too wish more Christians would share their beliefs but I do believe God stirs the hearts of each in different ways at different times.

It hasn't been that terribly long ago that I did not want to even hear about God, let alone discuss my beliefs, so I understand why more people are not vocal like I would wish to see.

-- Posted by Blessed Assurance on Sat, Dec 26, 2009, at 6:13 PM"

And yet when they are vocal in a way that you do not approve, you gainsay them into submission. "Bravo"...

I am curious how long most of the people posting here would last on the "Prove there's a god" thread on Topix.com ... Assuming it's still active - I stopped participating about 8 months ago... Keep getting invites back to it from a friend on MySpace though...

Rationality and the ability to stay ON TOPIC seems to be lost on many of the core-responders to this thread...

Wow! I've got my own personal troll!!! Seeking to discredit me wherever I post! AWESOME!

I must be doing SOMETHING right! ;p

Or were you going to, on here at least, provide an example of where I went off-topic on other blogs (which is not the topic of this blog); you know, other than when I noted it was off-topic in my post?

michaelbell,

You added this statement to your Post:

I heard a preacher state that all the Christian's have gone into the closet[ I wonder if it is the same one all the homosexuals came out of?]

Do you remember which preacher that was?