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New Year New Direction!Posted Sunday, January 3, 2010, at 2:06 PM
Before I start I hope all had a blessed holiday season and that God bestows all his blessings on you in 2010!
When I say new direction I don't mean a change of stance on beliefs, it is just that I intend at least from the start on doing more uplifting blogs than always doing the negative, though those will still appear every now on then. The direction I am looking is up for our Saviour Lord Jesus Christ is coming soon to take his children home before Hell appears on earth in its full force known as the Antichrist! I know the word"rapture" does not appear in the Bible, just like the word "trinity" does not either. They are terms used to describe things or actions. I am not trying to make people believe the way that I do, you mave believe in pre-trib[which is my belief] mid- trib or post-trib or even in no rapture at all. I am just stating my point of view. The core verse fo the rapture is as follows: 1Thess.4:13-18 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not preventd them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comforte one another with these words. Then Paul restates himself in 2 Thess[ some people just have to be told twice! 2 Thess:2:7-12 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto hima, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdethb that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. There are several places in the Bible Old and New that makes me believe with out a shadow of a doubt that Jesus will take his children home before the Great Tribulation hits which I also believe is close at hand here are a few.
The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is more consistent with God's grace, love, mercy, compassion, etc. The Mid and Post-Tribulation Rapture is more consistent God's wrath. If the Rapture takes place at the end of the Tribulation Period, and all the wicked are removed from the earth at that time (Matt. 13:24-30, 47-50; 25:41), no one will be left to re-populate the earth during the Millennium. If all of the saved are Raptured and all the lost are removed from the earth at the end of the Tribulation Period, no one will be left to re-populate the earth. The Antichrist will prevail against the saints during the Tribulation Period, but the gates of hell won't prevail against the Church (Rev. 13:7; Matt. 16:18). Therefore, the Church won't go through the Tribulation Period. The twenty-four elders [representatives of the Church] will be in heaven before the seven-sealed scroll is broken (Rev. 4:4; 6:1-17). Jesus was talking about the Tribulation Period when He said, "Pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass" (Luke 21:36). He didn't say, "Pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to endure some or all of these things that shall come to pass." There are no signs of the Rapture, but if the Rapture takes place during the Tribulation Period, it would have to be after the seven-year covenant is signed by the Antichrist, and perhaps after several other things depending upon what a person believes about Mid-Trib, Post-Trib, etc. Jesus said, "When these things [the signs] begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads for your redemption draweth nigh" (Luke 21:28).He didn't say, "After all these things have happened your redemption draweth nigh." He said, "When these things begin to come to pass it's close." Exodous 19 is a foreshadow of the rapture for God came down and Moses went up! The same as the Israelites looked at Moses's backside, as we are lifted into the air we will kiss you bye and you can watch us ascend to Heaven! The time, no one knows but we are to know the signs and seasons. I believe the Feast of Pentecost is the most likely because that is when the church was born the second would be the Feast of Trumpets. 50 days from the day the firstfruits of the barley harvest was waved before the Lord, (50 days from the morrow after the sabbath after Passover), is Shavuot or the Day of Pentecost. Rabbinic scholars believe that it was on this day that God visited His people after their exodus from Egypt and through Moses, brought the Law down from Mount Sinai. This earthshaking day of visitation, trembling, and betrothal is the birthday of the nation of Israel. Moses brings down the Torah or Law for the nation. Because of sin 3,000 die under the Law that day. The Old Covenant is a national covenant between YHVH-God and His covenant people. And so the nation of Israel was established. They agree to follow Him in devotion and obedience. In spite of past failures the nation of Israel will indeed be restored. The Jewish House of Judah will be saved and the throne of David in Judah will be established upon this earth under Messiah. But that is not all. The lost sheep of the House of Israel, the lost ten tribes of Israel, will be found and brought back home to Israel again. (See Ezek.37). The nation and Kingdom of Israel along with Messiah's Melchizedek Priesthood will be fully restored as a single Elect and Chosen people. The Old Covenant and the Law has not been "done away with" as we have been told. Both estranged houses of Israel will embrace Messiah. Then with their partial blindnesses healed they will rediscover each other at the end of this age to restore the Union in both Righteousness, (the royal national burden of the Jews), and in Grace, (the holy priestly burden of the Church). Both Houses of Israel are being sifted through the nations. Those being saved are bringing many companions home to Israel with them. (See Ezekiel 37:15-28) The nation will be reunited and regathered as that Commonwealth of Israel spoken of by our Apostle Paul. (See Eph. 2:12-13). Restored Israel is destined to be cross-linked together as that "royal priesthood and holy nation spoken of by both Moses and by the Apostle Peter. (See Exod. 19:6, and 1Pet.2:9). The Old Covenant God made with the nation of Israel and the righteous rule of Israel's Messiah upon this earth are in the heart of the Jewish House of Judah. YHVH-God's righteous rule will surely come and the nation of Israel will be restored, but only under Messiah and not by might or by power. The restoration will not come by a seducing religious humanism, or by the military might of a crusading Church Dominionism). It will come by God's Holy Spirit. (See Zechariah 4). The New Covenant is established soul by soul and silently in the gentle bonds of love and devotion as Messiah is received into human lives. It is by YHVH's Grace through faith that His Law is written into the hearts. The prophet Jeremiah spoke of this mystery. See Jer. 31:31. See also Hebrews 8:8-12. The prophet Zechariah saw the Jewish House of Judah in Israel repenting and receiving Messiah rather late, even as Jerusalem was surrounded by armies at the close of this age. See Zechariah 12:7-13:1. In the autumn of the year and on the first day of the Tishrei moon trumpets are blown to announce the Hebrew holiday of Rosh Hashanah. Biblical Christians refer to it as the Feast of Trumpets. It is the 5th of the Seven Feasts of Israel. The ultimate New Covenant fulfillment of this future Jewish New Year, (Tishrei 1 on the Hebrew calendar), will be spectacular beyond words. The feast will explode into holy history. And it will be a blockbuster. Moses declared and prophesied that it would become a "memorial of blowing of trumpets" (Lev. 23:24-25) It seems that many faithful saints will suffer and die at the hands of the powers because they blew the trumpet and sounded the alarm on that awesome future Rosh Hashanah. (Ezek.33) On that coming feast day the faithful watchmen of Israel will answer the call. And "they will not be silent". This 5th feast was instituted by Moses at Sinai approximately 3,500 years ago. It marks the first day of the Hebrew (civil) new year. 'Rosh Hashanah' means 'head of the year'. The Feast of Trumpets is the first of the three, yet to be fulfilled, Fall Feasts of Israel. These Autumn Feasts relate to Kingdom/political issues rather than the High Priestly/religious matters that we saw Messiah address in the spring feasts during His first coming 2,000 years ago. Back then we saw Him ride into Jerusalem on a donkey as the 'Suffering Servant'. But when Messiah returns this next time He will come as the Conquering King. After Trumpets on Tishrei 1 comes the "Ten days of awe" which lead on to Yom Kippur on Tishrei 10 which is the Day of Atonement. This is the most solemn day of the year. On this awesome Day of Reckoning all accounts between YHVH-God and all His covenant people are settled. The Jubilee Year is also announced on this same tenth day of Tishri. Trumpets are also blown during special times of national crisis. God's covenant people are summoned to gather themselves together in a solemn assembly before the God of Israel. Trumpets are sounded during battle in times of warfare. Trumpets also announce the imminent arrival of a king. On a future Rosh Hoshanah, on the new moon of Tishrei, the shofars will begin to sound on a day like no other. The ultimate epic future Feast of Trumpets will burst onto the world stage and into holy history. This will be an awesome day of mixed celebration and alarm. YHVH-God's determined times for Daniel's Prophecy of the 70 Weeks will resume in earnest. All of God's covenant people from both houses of Israel will be "called out", summoned to solemn assembly at YHVH-God's new and revamped 'ekklesia', His new 'congregation', 'synagogue', or 'church' of the 70th Week". The saints will be crying out to God and this will spark the climactic End-Time Revival that Joel saw. (Joel 2:28-32) We now have very strong evidence that this future Rosh Hashanah will mark the terminus of the "Roadmap to Peace". This will be the day when Israel signs the seven year peace covenant written about in Daniel 9:27. Israel will agree to divide and sell the Holy Land and their national sovereignty for a pocketful of promises of "peace and safety". Moses spoke of this final dalliance of Israel and predicted the ensuing Great Tribulation. Jesus Christ, Yeshua Hamashiach, said that they would reject Him who came in His Father's Name and said that His covenant people would consort with a false messiah, a man who came "in his own name". John 5:43. Seven momentous years will then bring in the end-time witness. Then comes the final awesome Day of Atonement. Trumpets of Jubilee will herald the opening of the Day of the Lord which opens on the very next day. Angels of wrath will pluck up the wicked as tares for the fires. (Mat.13:30) At some unknown time in those ensuing days before the Feast of Tabernacles comes into its fulfillment the last trumpet will sound and all of God's Elect, (singular), will be gathered. The climactic future Resurrection-Rapture will see Messiah gather His Chosen from the nation of Israel and from among the heathen gentiles. All the saints, the quick and the dead, from every nation, race, and tribe, from both sides of Calvary will be there. And they will all enter the glory together. (Isa.49:6 and 1Thes. 4:15-17) With permission of Gavin Finney Unless you can find better proof I belive that everything has to happen before the rapture has happened and I will be looking to the Heavens for that angel and listening for that Shofar[trumpet] to blow and up I go! http://endtimepilgrim.org/index.htm Copyright Release The articles on this website written by Gavin Finley are offered into the Kingdom of God for the purpose of Christian ministry. None of the articles are copyrighted. They are offered freely to all. You may abbreviate them, make abstracts of them, and expand on them as you wish for use in ministerial, exhortational, or educational endeavors. The full articles may be linked, copied, or printed out for distribution provided that they remain in the author's name and continue to be offered without cost. With these articles go my prayers and best wishes to all. Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
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michaelbell,
You posted: If the Rapture takes place at the end of the Tribulation Period, and all the wicked are removed from the earth at that time (Matt. 13:24-30, 47-50; 25:41), no one will be left to re-populate the earth during the Millennium. If all of the saved are Raptured and all the lost are removed from the earth at the end of the Tribulation Period, no one will be left to re-populate the earth.
--> Where do you get the ideal that the earth WILL BE Re-POPULATED?
Rev 20:4-5
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
There is no more re-populating the earth by normal child birth. The world will be re-populated by the people who are resurrected according to Rev 20:4-5. Those who are caught up in the air will remain with Christ during this time also but will remain with him forever.
After the thousand years the rest of the dead are raised. That is your Re-population, not child birth.
I have to agree with you Mr. Bell on the most likely event of a pre-tribulation rapture.
I don't think Christ will let His bride, the Church, suffer through the tribulations of the end times.
If the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he's the one that will kill the Two Witnesses (Rev. 11: Many people don't think the Church will go through the Tribulation Period because of verses of Scripture that say things like, "The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked he will destroy" (Psa. 145:18-20). Many believe God will preserve the Church from the Tribulation Period or keep the Church out of the Tribulation Period not destroy the Church in the Tribulation Period.
There are verses of Scripture that say things like, "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it" (Deut. 4:2; Prov. 30:5-6; Rev. 22:18-19). Some believe people have to throw away verses of Scripture to believe the Church will go through the Tribulation Period.
In the seven letters to the seven churches, Jesus said, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches" seven times (Rev. 2:7,11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22). When we get to the Tribulation Period, Jesus said, "If any man have an ear, let him hear" (Rev. 13:9). He left out, "what the Spirit saith unto the churches" because there are no churches on earth to go through the Tribulation Period. The Church will be in heaven.
When the Rapture happens the Church goes up to meet Jesus in the air (I Thess. 4:13-18), but at the end of the Tribulation Period the Church will come down to the earth with Jesus to witness what He does at the Battle of Armageddon (Rev. 19:14-21).
Good post! I personally am not that concerned about the time line of things. All I know is that I am going to spend enternity with my Father in heaven and I so look forward to that very day!
michaelbell,
so in your own words you are saying that Christ is not coming a second time to punish and judge the world, but has decided to return the second time to rapture people up then return again for the third coming of Christ to punish and judge the world?
I have never read that anywhere in the bible.
Why then are preachers saying that when Christ returns there will be peace on earth and no more pain and suffering?
People better start reading their bible
michaelbell,
you posted:
When the Rapture happens the Church goes up to meet Jesus in the air (I Thess. 4:13-18), but at the end of the Tribulation Period the Church will come down to the earth with Jesus to witness what He does at the Battle of Armageddon (Rev. 19:14-21).
1). What do these people who are raptured up do til they return with Christ at his third coming and where does it say that in the bible?
2). If the church is Raptured up before the tribulation... when Christ does return, who is Jesus separating the tares from? You are saying the church has already been caught up in the air before Christ returns, leaving only the evil people. Yet when Christ gets through sorting the tares from the good, the righteous who are left alive, will shine.
Didn't Paul tell the Thessalonians that those who are asleep will rise first, then we (who are alive) will be caught up with them (those who slept) in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
3). who are these people who are left alive after the Lord slays the evil?
Immediately after the Lord slays the evil people, He Resurrects all those who were killed and beheaded for his name sake and those who did not accept the mark of the beast nor worship the beast nor his image.
4). If the church is caught up in the clouds and meet Jesus in the air and reign with Christ forever and ever... then WHO are all those righteous people the LORD is raising in the first Resurrection that are suppose to reign with him for a thousand years?
The letters to the seven churches was just that. Letters to the seven churches (Not the Church, but 7 churches).
In Rev 13:9 The Spirit is talking to anyone who is smart enough to know what he is saying.
5). If there are no churches on earth during the tribulation period, what is all the talk about a One World Religion and the beast who is worshiped and his image and mark?
What you meant to say is the Church (body of Christ) won't be here, however, you see how easy it is for Christians to get different meanings and understandings of the scriptures, so why would anyone think the Beast couldn't persuade Christians over to his religion? All it takes is a few lies and misunderstandings to confuse the world into believing what the majority of the world believes.
6). Why would you say the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he's the one who will kill the Two Witnesses?
Didn't you learn anything from the story of Jesus? Jesus came to save the world not from the Romans like the church thought, but from their own sins.
Being so disappointed the Jews killed him by using the Romans. Even the Scribes and Pharisees wanted Jesus dead so they could rule the Jews.
Don't you think the Anti-christ is smart enough to deceive the people into killing these two witnesses because they sound like they are agreeing with the New World Religious Leader?
The people at that time are not going to think too kindly to two witnesses who preach Christ is returning to destroy all the people who are worshiping the beast and going around buy and selling and marrying because they have the mark of the beast and bowing down to the beast.
No, I'm just afraid it isn't going to play out like we think it will with people knowing right from wrong. It will play out more like the story of Jesus. People being more upset with the witnesses who are making everyone judge themselves for what they really are.
Oh yes, they will be happy when they have killed the two witnesses and shut their mouths up for good, til they rise up and ascend into heaven. then they will know.
Didn't Paul tell the Thessalonians that those who are asleep will rise first
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Jan 4, 2010, at 2:56 PM
Unique-Lies,
Those who die in Christ will and have risen first. They are already in heaven. These are the ones that John sees in heaven from the beginning before the seals are even broken. Way before the trumpets or vials.
1Thess.4:14
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
The dead in Christ will come back in the clouds with Him and we which are alive will meet them in the clouds.
The 1444,000 which were sealed and protected will remain here on earth as shown below.
Revelation 7
1And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Later as John is shown further into time at the fifth trumpet he mentions the sealed ones again on earth going through the tribulations
Revelation 9
1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
By this time the Church has been raptured and all that inhabits the earth is the unsaved and the sealed 144,000.
You gonna have to start listening to Paul and John and how they straightened the ignorant out instead of those little ants you were talking to.
I get some interesting perspectives on Scripture listening to y'all.
(I also get flashbacks to reading of Dr. Henry Pym and the wonderful Wasp,the novel "City under the Back Stairs" and the films "Them!", "Food of the Gods" and "Marabunta".)
While we need to be aware of the seriousness of the last days and be prepared to stand against the enemy and lead people toward God and the Truth,we should remember that salvation is much more than "fire insurance" or a way of battling demons.
We'll have more "High Hopes" coming from the Gospel we live here and now than from speculation on the hereafter or any conversations we might have with ants tipping over rubber tree plants or rams taking on kilowatt dams.
Concerning the Second Coming, Jesus said, "But of the day and the hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" (Matt. 24:36). But if the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, some will know the day because it will be seven years from the signing of the seven-year covenant. Some will know the day because it will be 1260 days from the day the Antichrist defiles the Temple (Rev. 12:6).
Concerning the Antichrist, many scholars believe the Bible teaches he won't be revealed until after the Church is gone (II Thess. 2:6-8), but if the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, some will know who he is because he will sign the seven-year covenant (Dan. 9:24-27), he will head up the world government (Rev. 13:1-10), he will try to force multitudes to worship him, and to receive his mark, receive his name or his number (Rev. 13:15-17). Many of those who are here and being forced to worship him and take his name or die will know who he is.
The Antichrist is not suppose to be revealed until after the Church is gone (II Thess. 2:6-8), but if the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he will put a statue of himself in the rebuilt Temple (Dan. 11:31; Dan. 12:11; Matt. 24:15).
If the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he will head up the world government and receive a deadly wound to his head that will be healed (Rev. 13:3). Some think he will be raised from the dead or at least fake the resurrection.
If the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he will head up the world government and be supported by the head of the world religion called the False Prophet (Rev. 13:11-18).
If the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, the Church will know who the Antichrist is because he's the one that will kill the Two Witnesses (Rev. 11:7).
Many people don't think the Church will go through the Tribulation Period because of verses of Scripture that say things like, "The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked he will destroy" (Psa. 145:18-20). Many believe God will preserve the Church from the Tribulation Period or keep the Church out of the Tribulation Period not destroy the Church in the Tribulation Period.
There are verses of Scripture that say things like, "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it" (Deut. 4:2; Prov. 30:5-6; Rev. 22:18-19). Some believe people have to throw away verses of Scripture to believe the Church will go through the Tribulation Period.
In the seven letters to the seven churches, Jesus said, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches" seven times (Rev. 2:7,11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22). When we get to the Tribulation Period, Jesus said, "If any man have an ear, let him hear" (Rev. 13:9). He left out, "what the Spirit saith unto the churches" because there are no churches on earth to go through the Tribulation Period. The Church will be in heaven.
When the Rapture happens the Church goes up to meet Jesus in the air (I Thess. 4:13-18), but at the end of the Tribulation Period the Church will come down to the earth with Jesus to witness what He does at the Battle of Armageddon (Rev. 19:14-21).
michaelbell,
1). What do these people who are Raptured up at the second coming of Christ, do until they return with Christ at his third coming and where does it say in the bible that these people do anything and most importantly, where does it mention your third coming of Christ?
Now STOP, and read what Paul tells them;
1 Thessalonians 4:16
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
This is not going to be a Top Secret Mission to sneak all the Christians off the Earth!
The dead in Christ (those who have died and SLEEP) shall Christ RISE FIRST!
These dead people are not in heaven with God, but here on earth in their graves sleeping, because Christ has to raise them up before those who remain alive can meet them in the clouds.
Now LOOK at 1 Thessalonians 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
THEN, after the dead in Christ (who were sleeping) are raised FIRST from their graves, we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds.
Not with Jesus in the air, but with them (the dead in Christ who were sleeping that Christ raised from the dead). We are caught up in the clouds with them who were raised first by Christ when he descended from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
It appears like God brought these people with him, but God brought them up into the clouds before those who were alive. Then we who are caught up in the clouds assume that God brought them from heaven, but God brings them up from the Earth before the we who are alive.
Then together they all meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Then lastly Paul tells the Thessalonians, "Wherefore comfort one another with these words.".
Paul wants them to be comfortable with what he just taught them so they would continue to worship God. Just as preachers tell you today, "He went home to be with his father in heaven". The preachers preach all sinners go to hell, but when a sinner dies, the preachers says, "He went home to be with his father", or "He is in a better place", or "God took him home", knowing the man was a sinner!
1 Thessalonians 4:16
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
That describes the second coming of Christ to me. The second coming of Christ doesn't happen until after the anti-christ is revealed. This is after the Tribulation of the Beast, False Prophet and the mark of the Beast. So any Rapture would be after the Tribulation but before the Wrath of God.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words... no one will be exempt from the Trials and Tribulation lest they die first.
michaelbell,
2). If the church is Raptured up before the tribulation... when Christ does return, who is Jesus separating the tares from? You are saying the church has already been caught up in the air before Christ returns, leaving only the evil people. Yet when Christ gets through sorting the tares from the good, the righteous who are left alive, will shine.
You and Ms Blessed Assurance are saying that all Christians are exempt from the Tribulation Period;
When they die they go to Heaven, No wait, when Christ sneaks back before his second coming, all the Christians who have died, will be raised up first into the clouds.
And All the Christians who remain alive when Christ sneaks back undetected, before his second coming, will be caught up in the clouds, leaving only the mean and evil and wicked people and for some odd reason the 144,000 virgin Jews who were sealed in their forehead with Gods mark.
Now that sure makes for a good and confusing false religion. Maybe the False Prophet will incorporate it into his false religion since everyone seems to like that version even though it makes no sense at all.
The question is... When Christ does return (I am assuming that you and Ms BA believe Christ is returning after he raptures all the Christians up), Who is Christ going to separate from the evil people if the 144,000 Jews are the only saints who were sealed in their foreheads?
Christ said he was returning early for the sake of his Saints. Did Christ only mean his 144,000 Jews? All the other Christians were Raptured up in your Rapture, leaving only the 144,000 and a bunch of evil people, yet Christ weeds out the evil and leaves the Righteous standing.
This fantasy would mean that All the Christians went to heaven except the 144,000 Jews. The 144,000 Jews would be left alive here on Earth and all evil people destroyed in the firey furnaces.
Who is Christ going to Resurrect in the First Resurrection who will reign with him for one thousand years... Your theory would only leave the 144,000 Jews. That won't hold water because they were never killed by Christ, so they are not resurrected.
Do you and Ms BA say we should take Revelation 20:4-6 out of our bibles? why that would be taking away from his book and away from your lives.
Immediately after the Lord slays the evil people, He Resurrects all those who were killed and beheaded for his name sake and those who did not accept the mark of the beast nor worship the beast nor his image.
Wait a minute! You and Ms Blessed Assurance told us that All Christians go to heaven when they die, or did you mean, all Christians are Raptured up, or was it, All Christians have already been Resurrected and taken to heaven, except those who are Raptured up?
Hold on there for a second! Didn't you and Ms BA say that when we die we don't sleep but go Paradise which is in the center of the Earth where it is separated from Hell by a Gulf?
SO now I am wondering if the dead according to you even go to heaven when they die but to this paradise across from Hell in the center of the Earth.
Maybe that was what Paul meant when he said those who slept, or dead in Christ, would be raised first? Yes, if Christ had to raise them first, then he would have raised them from the center of the Earth not Heaven. Heaven is up and out not down.
Since you and Ms BA don't believe we sleep in our grave when we die, you must believe we go to this paradise in the sky. Oops, I meant in the center of the earth. It sounded better though when I said in the sky didn't it?
michaelbell,
You Posted: Concerning the Second Coming, Jesus said, "But of the day and the hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" (Matt. 24:36). But if the Church goes through the Tribulation Period, some will know the day because it will be seven years from the signing of the seven-year covenant. Some will know the day because it will be 1260 days from the day the Antichrist defiles the Temple (Rev. 12:6).
It starts with 7 years, but half way through (1260 days) the Beast jumps up and claims to be God. That is when Christ returns. 3 1/2 years of tribulations and torture from the beast and False Prophet and THEN Christ returns. If you are waiting for the 7 years of tribulations to end, Christ will be here before you know it. However, the bible says every eye will be on him so every one will see him descend from the clouds.
Jesus taught for 3-3 1/2 years when he was here so the Beast will only get 1260 days to rule before Christ returns. He is allowed to do whatever he wants to for those 1260 days, but like Job, God will put up a wall around his Saints. Your wall should already be around you if you are a saint!
Christians need to watch for the anti-christ. He will perform miracles, instill a false religion that most people won't even know has changed the way they worship. He will invoke the Mark of the Beast and cause the creation of his image. His image will probably be a statue in the Temp in Israel.
People world wide will worship him just like they do the Pope.
SO what's new? I can't believe the people that bow down to the Pope.
Rev 13:9-10
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
God's Saints are to be patient and keep their Faith and not kill or lead others into captivity while the Tribulation is going on.
These dead people are not in heaven with God, but here on earth in their graves sleeping.
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 2:28 PM
This sounds like those guys that go door to door trying to preach such nonsense that no one is stupid enough to believe.
They also believe that only 144,000 are going to heaven.
Yes, uniquelies' beliefs are almost exactly like the Jehova Witness. Some people do believe like they do however. I believe the numbers are something like 1 out of 300 Christians are Jehova Witnesses.
....the righteous who are left alive, will shine.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Tue, Jan 5, 2010, at 2:28 PM
Unique-Lies,
The 144,000 sealed and protected ones left on earth will definitely shine among the evil left here to suffer the Wrath.
The Church has been caught up and gone from earth.
Revelation 9:3-5 makes it clear where the evil, the 144,000 and the Church are during this time.
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
The Church is gone by now unique. All that is left on earth is the sealed and protected 144,000 and the unsaved.
somecommonsense,
You posted: This sounds like those guys that go door to door trying to preach such nonsense that no one is stupid enough to believe.
They also believe that only 144,000 are going to heaven.
They have come to my door as well from time to time and have even invited me to come to their Kingdom Hall, but that isn't for me.
They believe that they (the 144,000) will be the only ones in the "RAPTURE".
I do not agree with them because there are more Jehovah Witnesses in the world, both dead and alive than the mere 144,000.
I have even heard Christian Preachers say they are part of the church and will be among the 144,000 who are raptured up and will reign with Christ for 1,000 years.
This is false preaching also because there are more preachers in the world than 144,000 plus anyone who is caught up in the clouds with the Lord will remain with Christ for ever not just 1,000 years.
We have to believe what Paul told us in 1 Thess 4:16-17
Paul tells us:
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Paul said first the Lord must descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God...
This is the second coming of Christ as plainly stated in the bibles.
and Paul continues with... "then the dead in Christ shall rise first."
Then Paul goes on to say "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air..." Paul also added "and so shall we ever be with the Lord.".
Paul tells us...Christ returns... dead rise first... then we who are alive are caught up in the clouds.
According to Ms Blessed Assurance, there is something like 7 million Jehovah Witnesses.
So what is going to happen to all those 6,856,000 Jehovah Witnesses who WON'T be in the Rapture?
Sorry, but with odds like that, I'm not interested in being a Jehovah Witness, even though I don't believe all the Christians are Raptured up either.
Think about it thou! If all Christians are Raptured up, both the dead and those alive, it would include the Jehovah Witnesses also along with all denominations.
Blessed Assurance,
You posted: The Church is gone by now unique. All that is left on earth is the sealed and protected 144,000 and the unsaved.
-> The church is not going to be in any rapture!
The 144,000 Jews are caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
Rev 7:1-8 tells us that God Seals thee 144,000 in their foreheads.
Rev 14:1-4 explains that these 144,000 Jews were redeemed from among men and they are the "FIRSTFRUITS" unto God and the Lamb.
"Firstfruits refers to the first portion of the harvest that is given to God."
1 Corinthians 15:20-23 Paul tells us that Christ become the firstfruits of them that slept, then every man in his own order will be firstfruits unto God and the Lamb.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Rev 14:1-4 states that the 144,000 Jews are the Firstfruits to God and the Lamb. The 144,000 can not be the firstfruits to God and The Lamb and remain on earth until the end of time!
The 144,000 are the first to be given to God not the multitude too numerous to count.
The multitude too numerous to count are the Saints! Who are the Saints? They are the souls in the "First Resurrection" and will reign with Christ here on Earth as Kings and Priests.
Those in the first resurrection will be Kings and Priests and they shall reign on the earth.
Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
In verse 4 John tells us that these Saints had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands.
-> This is proof that the Saints are here on the Earth when the Beast is ruling and the "Two Witnesses" are killed, because they refuse the Mark of the Beast, etc..
These are the Saints that Jesus is returning sooner for so they are not deceived also with all the other Christians.
If only the evil were left on the Earth, the devil would have no one to deceive because all the wicked have already been deceived!
And the Wildest thing is... All these Saints are not all the Christians, but only the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands.
All the other Christians have to wait until the thousands years are finished and be Resurrected in the next Resurrection.
Unique-Lies,
No matter how many times you repeat your deception only about one out of three hundred will fall for your twisted and out of order presentation of Revelation.
Been that way a long time.
We have had this discussion many times. You can move things out of order to present some pretty wild theories that 299 out of 300 will see through and recognize as false teachings.
Sorry, but that is just the way it is.
Mt 6:34
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Mt 12:25
And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Blessed Assurance,
It is just so easy for YOU to say:
"No matter how many times you repeat your deception only about one out of three hundred will fall for your twisted and out of order presentation of Revelation."
Than it is to read and explain what the verses really say that tells us the Rapture does not happen like you say it does.
You can not have a Rapture, then Resurrect them years later for the final Judgment of Christ.
You can not take all the righteous off the earth then read God will separate the evil from the righteous 7 years later here on earth.
My kids have more common sense than you do.
Christ can not raise all the dead Christians when he returns, like Paul tells us, if they have all gone to heaven when they died and returning with Christ when he returns.
Where did you read nonsense like that in the bible?
Even Paul knew the dead Christians were sleeping here on the earth and would be raised first before the live would be caught up.
Why do you think Paul told the Thessalonians "According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep."
Paul continues to explain "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first."
You worship Paul, yet don't understand what he teaches.
You only read into it what you want to believe so you can be raptured off the face of the earth so you don't get hurt during the tribulations.
Paul is saying that when we die, we sleep, but God will raise the dead (those who sleep) up first, then those who are still alive at that time would be caught up to meet them in the clouds.
However, Paul does not mention how many souls are caught up in the clouds, nor when this takes place, except When Christ Returns (the second coming of Christ).
uniquelies,
You have had it explained to you literally hundreds of times by various commenters. Actually to the point you ought to have it memorized.
Just click over on the archives of Mr. Bell and read the explanantions gave to you until you can become content.
There comes a point when I have to realize that I can not help some.
You are entitled to your own "only hope". I wish you well with him.
Even Paul knew the dead Christians were sleeping here on the earth and would be raised first before the live would be caught up.
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 1:50 PM
That's not what 299 out of 300 Christians interpret Paul as saying. Actually the total opposite of it.
You are under deception.
Why do you think Paul told the Thessalonians "According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep."
Posted by Unique-Lies on Thu, Jan 7, 2010, at 1:50 PM
Because he knew the ones alive would not preceed the dead who have already risen and absent of the body and with the Lord. These that precede us who are alive will return with Christ in the clouds and we will be caught up with them.
Blessed Assurance,
You posted: That's not what 299 out of 300 Christians interpret Paul as saying. Actually the total opposite of it.
You are under deception.
1 Thess 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Please tell me what these three (3) verses say, then tell me what YOU think they mean!
299 out of 300 should be able to get it right.
-------------------------------------------
You posted: Because he knew the ones alive would not preceed the dead who have already risen and absent of the body and with the Lord. These that precede us who are alive will return with Christ in the clouds and we will be caught up with them.
Tell me where Paul says the dead have already risen and are Alive in heaven and will come back with Jesus.
Verse 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
These are the dead who are sleeping and will be risen first when Christ returns and come with Jesus in the Air to meet those who are alive. Paul says nothing about the dead going to heaven and coming back alive.
Unique-Lies,
Read all previous posts including archives if you want to hear answers repeated again that I accept as correct and beleived by 299 out of 300.
Read the Watchtower and talk to Jehova Witnesses if you just want to hear what you want to hear that is generally believed by 1 out of 300.
I care nothing about repeating again all the evidence that debunks your and the Jehova Witness soul sleep concoctions.
Like I said I am not trying to change anyone's mind on when or if the Rapture occurs, just stating the facts as I see them in scripture, here are a few more.
There are no passages in either the Old Testament or the New Testament that say the Church will go through the Tribulation Period.
The Tribulation Period is called the "Time of Jacob's Trouble" [The time of unbelieving Israel's Trouble], but it is never called the time of the Church's Trouble (Jer. 30:7).
Gabriel told Daniel, "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people [Daniel's people are the Jews] and upon thy holy city" [The Holy City is Jerusalem] (Dan. 9:24). There is no mention of the Church.
The Church had no part in the first sixty-nine weeks and it will have no part in the seventieth week [the Tribulation Period] (Dan. 9:24).
In the Book of Revelation, the Rapture occurs at Rev. 4:1 which is before the Tribulation Period described in Rev. 6:1-19:21. In the sequence of events, the Rapture is before the seal, trumpet and bowl judgments.
The Church is mentioned more than twenty times in the first three chapters of Revelation, but the Church is never mentioned in the description of the Tribulation Period between Rev. 4:1 and Rev. 19:1.
The Tribulation Period is called a Day of Wrath in the Bible (Zeph 1:15), but the Bible says, "God hath not appointed us [the Church] to wrath" (I Thess. 5:9).
The Tribulation Period is called a Day of Wrath in the Bible (Zeph. 1:15), but the Bible says, Jesus has "delivered us from the wrath to come" [delivered the Church from the Tribulation Period] (I Thess. 1:10).
The Tribulation Period is called the Day of the Lord in the Bible (Zeph. 1:14). The Bible says, "the day of the Lord [the Tribulation Period] so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they [the unbelievers] shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them [upon the unbelievers], as travail upon a woman with child; and they [the unbelievers] shall not escape" (I Thess. 5:2-3). It clearly teaches that the Tribulation Period will come upon unbelievers, but it does not include believers.
Concerning the Rapture, the Bible says, "Comfort one another with these words" (I Thess. 4:18). There's no comfort in the teaching that the Church will go through part or all of the Tribulation Period.
Jesus told the Church at Philadelphia, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation [the Tribulation Period], which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" (Rev. 3:10). God promised to keep the obedient Church members out of the Tribulation Period.
The Bible says, "the day of the Lord [the Tribulation Period] so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they [the unbelievers] shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them [upon the unbelievers], as travail upon a woman with child; and they [the unbelievers] shall not escape" (I Thess. 5:2-3). It clearly teaches that the Tribulation Period will come upon unbelievers, but it does not include believers.
Posted by michaelbell on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 11:33 AM
Mr. Bell,
I have been studying 1 Thessalonians 5 much here lately. I agree with you that it is clear that "we" as brethren and Christians of which Paul was addressing his letter to in an effort to comfort "us" will escape the Wrath to come. In verse 3 he uses the word "they" or "them" 3 times, clearly seperating "us brethren" distinctively from "them" which will have sudden destruction come upon "them".
Verse 4 is also clear that us "brethren" will not have the day overtake "us".
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Then further in verse 9 he explains where all but the truly deceived can understand it:
9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ
He directs it back to "us" and tells "us" that God hath not appointed "us" to wrath but will save us.
Then again he explains his intention of comforting us in verse 11
11Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
To the brethren those passages should be comforting.
To the lost or deceived I am sure they find no comfort in them.
Paul's letters to the Thessalonians are much easier understood and comforting if we pay careful attention to his skillful use of the words "us" and "them" throughout the letters.
In the Book of Revelation, the Rapture occurs at Rev. 4:1 which is before the Tribulation Period described in Rev. 6:1-19:21. In the sequence of events, the Rapture is before the seal, trumpet and bowl judgments.
-- Posted by michaelbell on Fri, Jan 8, 2010, at 11:33 AM
Mr. Bell,
This statement too I agree with you on. It is clear that the day of wrath has come at Revelation 6. It is undeniably stated:
Revelation 6
17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
The Church is gone by now as "we" are promised "we" are not appointed to it.
I believe only the lost and the sealed 144,000 Jews will be left on earth at this time.
Above in verse 17 it ask..."who shall be able to stand the great day of wrath".
I believe the answer to it is the 144,000 sealed and protected Jews that are mentioned in Revelation 7.
1And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Then shortly right after the wrath is spreading as the trumpets have began in Revelation 9:
Revelation 9
1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
As can be easily seen in the above verses only two groups of people are left on earth at this time. The 144,000 just previously sealed and protected Jews and the the lost who are appointed to this wrath.
If the Church was still here on earth "we" would have to suffer this wrath mentioned above in verse 4 since the only ones to escape it are the previously sealed 144,000.
I find it extremely comforting to read the letters of Paul telling "us" that "we" are not appointed to this wrath after reading of it in Revelation.
If only everyone could be comforted with his words.
Hey michaelbell,
Perry stone said that the rapture takes place at Rev 6:4 but described verse 5 in Rev 4.
Then he closed with... he was going to be in the Rapture at the second coming of Christ (that would be after the tribulation when the beast claims to be God) and was coming back to reign with Christ for a thousand years.
The thing is... everyone in the Rapture remains with Christ forever. Only those in the first Resurrection reign with Christ for a thousand years.
SO... which is it? Is he raptured up or in the First Resurrection?
Blessed Assurance,
You posted: I find it extremely comforting to read the letters of Paul telling "us" that "we" are not appointed to this wrath after reading of it in Revelation.
If only everyone could be comforted with his words.
You are confusing the wrath of God with the Tribulations.
The Tribulations come first and are brought on by the Beast and False Prophet. The Wrath of God comes next. The Wrath of God is punishment from God where the Tribulation is an inconvenience caused by the Beast and False Prophet.
Gods children must go thru the Tribulation but not the Wrath of God.
The Tribulation tests us to see who is really a righteous Christian and who is just saying he is.
The Wrath of God will punish him who is not a righteous Christian.
I like to think of the future troubles as exposing ALL the hypocrites.
The people whose piety is weak or non-existent are going to be as blantantly ill-equipped to handle the traumas as an "athlete" or "health guru" who never properly fed or exercised his physical self.
But,it's the other half of the wannabees that interest me.
All those people who were too smart for faith or too cool for virtue are going to be wincing as they realize that something just isn't the way it's supposed to be and the only way to combat the wrong is by becoming one of those strange "God Squad" people.
Some become believers and obtain righteousness as a result.
Others have their moral sense ignited and,as a result,they seek or recognize the force behind the rightness.
Either way,they become aware that they are aliens in a world that is corrupt and full of sorrow.
A baby in the womb lives and breathes in liquid.
Once it has matured enough to start living,such an environment becomes uncomfortable,stifling and even deadly.
We are reaching a point where our "comfort zone" will change and the old status quo will no longer feel safe and satisfying.
Staying in that old environment after we have grown beyond it will seem like a bit of hell.
But,the new life ahead with all its possibilities will be worth the discomfort we undergo during the transition.
The people who were the "elect" in name only are in for a surprise but the "late-bloomers" who thought God would never have a place in their lives are going to be even more astonished when all the facades and rhetoric give way to a blunt,unambiguous,unadorned,inescapable reality.
You are confusing the wrath of God with the Tribulations.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Jan 10, 2010, at 10:57 PM
Unique-Lies,
No, it is presented so clear even the deceived should be able to see it.
Revelation 6
17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
The Tribulation tests us to see who is really a righteous Christian and who is just saying he is.
The Wrath of God will punish him who is not a righteous Christian.
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Jan 10, 2010, at 10:57 PM
Unique-Lies,
Righteousness is imputed, not earned.
Righteousness can only be imputed by Grace through Faith.
God doesn't need to, nor will He, administor a test to know who is His.
The Shepherd knows His sheep and His sheep know His voice.
1co 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Re 8:2
And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
Re 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Liveforlight,
1co 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Can't any of you read the words?
It says at the last trump! (The Trump when Christ returns the second time)
When that happens and Christ returns, the dead shall be raised incorruptible, (Paul calls them "those who have fallen asleep in him") {the Dead are SLEEPING}
Paul said at the last Trump, the dead (or those who are sleeping) shall be raised. Paul goes on to say they are raised first!
If all the dead are in heaven with God sitting under the altar, pray tell how are they going to be raised first at the last trump?
-> Rev 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
If you read the Bible, you will see that there are several things Christ must do first before he gives control over to his Father after he returns at the seventh trump.
Christ must separate the evil from the righteous, by ((taking)) the evil ones and leaving the righteous ones.
Two will be... One shall be taken and the other left.
When Christ returns he doesn't leave the earth for over a thousand + years. Christ Resurrects the saints in the first resurrection and reigns with them for one thousand years.
These saints become Kings and Priests of God and the Lamb.
As they learn their duties as Kings and Priests all things on earth rot, decay, rust, melt, dissolve turn back into minerals etc., or have burned up, leaving a clean new environment here on earth for all who are resurrected.
When we are resurrected there will be no trace of our home, our towns, autos, planes or trains. Everything will be gone with no computers, TVs, lawnmowers, power or hand tools nor weapons or technology. God will take it all away and the earth will just be a paradise of plants and trees. Not sure that there will even be any bodies of water.
Christ then Resurrects the rest of the dead and releases Satan at the same time to go out and deceive the nations again for ??? years.
After Satan has deceived all he can they will surround the camp of the Saints and fire from heaven comes down and kills them all.
THEN...
Christ has to start all over again and makes the sea give up their dead, and the hell and death give up the dead... so Christ can start judging everyone at this final judgment seat where Christ sends everyone where they belong.
Their bodies will change in a twinkle of an eye and they will go to the New Heaven in the air, the Lake of Fire, or to the New Earth. Then Death and Hell are cast into the Lake of Fire.
THEN it says... the New Heaven (the New City of Jerusalem) will come down out of heaven, because the old heaven and old earth had passed away.
The new city of Jerusalem is roughly 2,000 miles high, 2,000 miles wide and 2,000 miles long and will hold everyone who is suppose to go to heaven.
God and Christ will also be living in this new heaven with all the saints.
There will be so many souls up there that they will be too numerous to count.
But don't forget all the meek who will inherit the (new) earth! These meek souls I am sure are saints too, so not all saints go to heaven even after they die and are resurrected and judged eventually.
A lot of that if not most all of it can be found in the Watchtower.
I can't help but agree with the 299 out of 300 who reject the order and sense of it.
Blessed Assurance,
Every word of it is in the King James Bible whether or not it is in the Watchtower, only you would know that. Well, YOU and one out of every 300 Christians.
Notice what I said.
I said I reject the order and sense of it.
As you have been told numerous times by numerous commentors, you can change the order and context of what is written in to some weird concoctions that are generally rejected by the vast majority.
Your order and context used to support your theories that you want to "boast" of are rejected.
That is what you have a hard time understanding.
Your theories are rejected.
They are accepted by only about 1 out of 3000 which is coincidently almost the same ratio of people who suffer from delusional disorders.
Blessed Assurance,
You posted: I said I reject the order and sense of it.
I don't care what you reject.
You are the one out of order.
Until you get your order straightened out you are reading blindly.
You can't even explain what Paul told the Thessalonians in the order He told them.
Why did Paul tell the Thessalonians the dead are Sleeping? You refuse to believe that!
Why did Paul tell the Thessalonians that those who SLEPT would be raised First (When Christ returns) {You don't believe That either},
You believe they have already been raised and gone in Heaven when they died? {Nowhere does the Bible say that.}
The Bible tells us when the First Resurrection takes place and even who will be in it.
Your theories are just plain Nonsense and they go against the Bible. You are eliminating the Word of God to make believe you will be taken away in some rapture.
Everybody is a Christian these days, so if Christ brings back all the dead Christians (which haven't been resurrected yet) with him when he returns, there won't be any room in the clouds for those who sleep to rise up into.
You think the LORD will be bringing Billions and Billions of people from times past down here on earth when he returns? There isn't enough room on earth for that many souls to fly around and get in the way of what Christ has to do.
You posted: They are accepted by only about 1 out of 3000 which is coincidently almost the same ratio of people who suffer from delusional disorders.
Humm, The odds just went from 1 in 300 to 1 in 3,000.
That's a mighty big drop there. You sure you know what you are talking about on this subject too?
Looks like we know who is suffering from delusional disorders.
I'm sure you can convince the people who suffer from delusional disorders with the help of the churches to believe they will be saved and exempted from the tribulation. Just don't know how you are going to explain it when it doesn't happen.
Of course, you are lucky, because we won't be here when the alleged Rapture or the proper name for it, "Caught up in the Clouds" happens.
Read all previous answers to your questions in the archives.
You are the one out of order.
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Tue, Jan 12, 2010, at 1:29 PM
No, I just leave it in the order it was given to John and he was told to write.
God is not the author of confusion.
His adversary is though.
If you would stop and reason as to whom the father of your "only hope" is it will make perfect simple sense to you at once.
Real simple to figure out once you answer that one question for yourself.
Blessed Assurance,
You posted: Read all previous answers to your questions in the archives.
I have no desire to reread your LIES! You can't understand things that are IN context, so how would you know what is in or out of context.
Paul explained it all for you in 1 Thess 4 and you can't even accept what Paul wrote. You have to go to some other scripture that has nothing to do with Paul or his talk with the Thessalonians.
Every one who knows their scriptures go to other scriptures for proof of what they are saying. That isn't taking scriptures out of context if it is saying basically the same thing or adding more to the original scripture.
For example Jesus was arrested and tried by the Romans and found guilty by the Jews so the Romans nailed Jesus to a cross and pierced his side so he would be dead before the Sabbath began. Jesus died there on the cross.
But nothing is said about Jesus forgiving us of our sins nor saving our souls from hell nor giving us the power to heal others in his name nor having eternal life in those scriptures. We have to go to other scriptures to read why he had to die on the cross. That is not taking scriptures out of context nor content.
It is just common sense that we have to get the rest of the story from other scriptures.
We have to know where to go to get the other scriptures to piece the story together right.
By changing what a verse or scripture says is not piecing the story together, but changing what the story is really saying.
I do not fully understand the Book of Revelation and I don't think any one person will ever know it all. It is just now starting to be understood by some, so there are many years to come yet.
You on the other hand have it all figured out by going into heaven with John when he was instantly in the spirit and went to heaven. You witnessed first hand everything that John saw and know everything the Lord and his angels were explaining only to John in spiritual visions.
John was seeing visions of the future but you take them to be visions in the past. All those visions were happening right then in heaven and not in the future according to you, however, all of these things are yet to come.
Even the letters to the churches are still here to be read by future churches, so they are not letters only for the past.
Again, all has been explained to you before numerous times.
I'm listening to the instructions of Paul:
Titus 3
10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Read the archives if you want to hear it again.
You, your theories and your "only hope" have been rejected.
That's nice to know! Now I don't have to wait for Christ to judge me since I have been rejected by the other holy one.
I'm not judging you but rather adhering to Paul advice.
But I must add that you wouldn't have to worry about being judged later if you had the proper "only hope" and His Father in front of you.
As having been told on numerous previous occassions, once you have figured out who the father of "your" "only hope" is, you will understand.
One if the father of the goats and the other is the Father of the Sheep.
I do pray however that you will think it through and ask yourself....."who really is the father of my only hope".
Mr. Bell, I like the way you talk. I may just have to come visit your church sometimes. Isn't it funny how some people just want to disagree all the time, or want to always argue the horns off a billy goat. Sadly people will find out the truth some day. And it may be sooner than they think. Keep up the good work sir.
thank you im gail
Blessed Assurance,
You posted: I'm not judging you but rather adhering to Paul advice.
You are the last one to say you adhere to Paul's advice.
You do not believe we sleep when we die yet Pauls tells you that over and over again.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-16
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
--> Look Blessed Assurance! Paul said "them which are asleep". Did Paul mean the people who are dead or people who are sleeping on the earth?
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
--> Look Blessed Assurance! Paul said "them also which sleep in Jesus". Did Paul mean People who died believing in Christ or people sleeping in Jesus?
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
--> Look Blessed Assurance! Paul said "the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." First Paul says "the COMING OF THE LORD, shall not prevent them which are asleep." Paul was speaking of the second coming of the Lord, not the first, third or the coming of Christ in the New City of Jerusalem. The coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Paul was saying that as great a moment the second coming of Christ will be, it will not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
--> Ohhhh... Look, Look, Look. Look, Blessed Assurance!
Paul says"the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:"
Paul wants you to understand that the Lord is NOT gonna sneak back to earth to rapture up his people in secret. Paul said "the Lord is descending from heaven with a shout, the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:"
That is the Second Coming of Christ!
Paul is also telling us that the "DEAD IN CHRIST" shall rise first. Paul is letting you know that not all the dead who are sleeping will be raised, but only those who ARE DEAD in Christ, will be raised.
Paul was very definite about those who are asleep being raised {AFTER} the second coming of Christ with the shout, voice of the archangel and trump of God.
Oh yeah, Blessed Assurance, if those who are asleep don't rise until Christ descends from heaven, then they do NOT Come with God but rise before the others who are still alive.
Important Note:
Here I have to inform you that these souls who are asleep (or Dead in Christ) are not being Resurrected but raised as firstfruits to God and the Lamb and will remain with him forever.
I once read where the bible said the firstfruits to God and the Lamb were the 144,000.
Everyone who is Resurrected are Resurrected back here on the earth and John tells us who is Resurrected first. It is not those who are caught up in the clouds.
Now, Blessed Assurance, I would like to hear why you think we do not sleep when we die! Even Paul, your favorite author, tells us we sleep when we die.
Please explain these verses, not some other verse taken out of content or context.
Read the archives if you are bored ratchet jaws. :)
Get real BA. You can only quote scriptures out of another book somewhere that has nothing to do with what Paul is telling you in 1 Thess 4.
If you answered them in the archives I would go there, but you have never explained these verses, so don't whip some stupid humiliating response out there to show your stupidity.
1 Thess 4:13 Paul says "the dead are asleep"
1 Thess 4:14 Paul says "them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
1 Thess 4:15 Paul says "we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord" and also "shall not prevent them which are asleep"
1 Thess 3:16 Paul says "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:" then goes on to say "and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"
Now tell me that Paul did not say the dead sleep and only when Christ returns will the dead in Christ rise before we who are alive when Christ returns.
Tell me Paul said that Christ is sneaking back to get his church, so the nonbelievers won't know when the rapture took place.
You sound like all those churches that teach using the movie "left behind." That movie is so anti-christ it should be taken out of circulation.
No one is going to disappear off the face of the earth and just leave a pile of clothes folded in a chair or on the floor.
It just doesn't happen that way but it's amazing just how many people think it will.
Paul tells us in 1 Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Did you read that? "by the word of the Lord," and "that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord" also "shall not prevent them which are asleep".
Paul says that by the word of God, and not before the coming of Christ, that those who are still alive when Christ returns shall not prevent them who are asleep.
Since everyone has to wait until the coming of Christ, well... the tribulation of the beasts and worldly torture and torment has already taken its course and most Christians are killed or in concentration camps.
The WRATH of God that you speak of begins when Christ returns. Christ is bringing his WRATH with him and will eliminate the evil left standing by the beast and false prophet and anti-christ and only the righteous shall remain alive.
The WRATH of God is not brought on by the beast and anti-christ. The WRATH of GOD begins when Christ returns. If you are a righteous christian whose name is written in the book of life, the WRATH of God will not harm you in any way.
Unique-Lies,
You remind me of my grandmother in her mid to final stages of Alzheimer's. No matter how many times we told her my sister was Susan she thought she was William.
Susan was and is Susan.
Thank You! I see now that you can not even understand what I type let alone what is printed in the Bible.
You have convinced me that you can't understand our English language so I now know you can't handle the Word printed in the bible. I'm sorry I have troubled you with our American English Language.
Who did your grandmother think you were?
When Paul says the dead are "ASLEEP", he mean the body was dead but the soul sleeps when we die.
When Paul said when Christ returns the dead in Christ will rise first that means the dead don't wake up and rise first until Christ returns.
So... they are not in heaven but here on earth when Christ returns.
Unique-Lies,
My grandmother also had a habit of repeating things over and over and over and over and never realizing it in her battle with Alzheimer's, much like you.
My grandmother died and was buried and my grandfather was cremated.
My grandmother is not sleeping in the ground and my granfather is not snoozing in the urn on the fireplace mantle.
Both are in heaven as was revealed to John.
Go read the archives if you have forgotten what we have discussed many times.....grandma.
Grandma,
Read the last verse in 1 Thessalonians 3 which is right before the "rapture" and notice who is coming with Jesus and who we are going to meet in the air.
1 Thessalonians 3
13To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
These are the saints that John forseen in heaven and they are awake and active, not snoozing and counting little sheeps.
Now, we have explained this many times before and no, that is not William, it is Susan.
Again you leave the scriptures unanswered and go somewhere else in the Bible for a quick rebuttal.
Stay with the verses and explain them.
1 Thess. 3:13
This verse is just repeating what Paul says in Thess 4.
At the COMING or Christ (second coming) those who are asleep will rise first then we who are alive will rise up to meet them (those who are asleep) in the cloud then they all meet Jesus in the air.
However, you are FORGETTING one thing!
Christ is on his return when all this happens and hasn't reached earth yet. Christ is still in the air coming down from heaven.
When Christ arrives here, all those saints WILL BE with him.
So yes, Christ is returning with all of his saints, all the saints who are raised up to meet him in the air at his second coming.
}
See how you took that scripture out of context and content to try to prove the souls don't sleep and the dead go to heaven.
The Paul said the Lord comes down from heaven, but mentions nothing about his saints coming down out of heaven. Paul said his saints who are asleep will rise first then those who are alive will be caught up with them in the clouds, THEN they will ALL meet Christ in the air, and will remain with him forever.
{
Now please explain the verses I asked you to!
You don't have to go anywhere else in the bible to explain them. The archives only contain what You have thrown in from other scriptures that have nothing to do with what Paul was telling you in 1 Thess 4.
Sorry uniquelies, but you are going to have to use the archives to have it repeated again to you if you have forgotten again. All I have to say has already been said.
That is what I thought. You have said all you know about it, which has nothing to do with 1 Thessalonians 4.
Ergo! More and more preachers/evangelists on TV are confessing the churches are not preaching the TRUTH!
Read the archives ratchet jaws. :)))
1 Thessalonians 4 has been discussed numerous times.
Read the archives ratchet jaws. :)))
1 Thessalonians 4 has been discussed numerous times.
Blessed Assurance,
I don't have to read the archives,
I wrote them.
I explained 1 Thessalonians 4 very clearly.
You are the false teacher who refuses to touch 1 Thessalonians 4!
You only use it to read the word "Rapture" from the words "caught up".
You miss quote "God brings with him" as God bringing the dead in Christ from heaven when he comes.
You don't believe anything else Paul is teaching us in 1 Thess. 4.
Paul tells us the dead in Christ are asleep.
Paul doesn't say anything about them being in heaven.
Paul tells us that Christ must return before these dead who are asleep can rise first.
This alone teaches us that the so called "Rapture" doesn't happen until after the Tribulation brought on by the beast and anti-Christ.
Paul also teaches us that Christ is not sneaking down here to "Secretly Rapture" the Church without anyone knowing it, because he returns with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God.
Paul teaches us that the dead in Christ don't come with him from heaven, but are "Raised First", then we who are alive will be caught up together with them "in the clouds"! After everyone is together in the clouds, then all of them and us together, will meet the Lord in the air.
And Now Blessed Assurance, This is not only what the archives say, but the Bible also and Paul is the one teaching it and you don't understand a word of what Paul is teaching us in 1 Thess, 4.
Blessed Assurance,
I don't have to read the archives,
I wrote them.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 1:27 PM
No, you only wrote your deceived thinkings (which is a small percentage of the archives) in the archives. There are numerous explanations offered to you by numerous commentors in the archives if you want to hear the refutations of your "soul sleep" and other concoctions.
That is what you need to go back and read if you want to hear the majority's viewpoint that refrutes your beliefs.
Otherwise just be happy with your beliefs, live on (until your only hope comes) and you have no need to read the majority's opinion that refutes your held beliefs.
If you want to feel good about your beliefs then pick up a local Watchtower and be among like company at least in part of your theories.
But, come to think of it, I think even they differ from you on "the only hope".
You still appear ashamed of your "only hope" and not willing to disclose his father.
Instead of wanting to discuss something such as 1 Thessalonians 4 which has been exhaustively discussed, why not speak on a fresh subject for a change and explain your "only hope".
Blessed Assurance,
I leave the archives for YOU to read as that is all you know to talk about.
I will get my truth from the word of God not your archives.
You haven't explained 1 Thess 4. You discuss other scriptures that have nothing to do with 1 Thess 4.
You say you believe everything that Paul taught and his letters didn't need any tuning, yet you can not repeat word for word what Paul says 1 Thess 4, and understand it. You have gone to other books for your explanations of the Word of God that Paul teaches about other things.
After reading what you have to say about bible scriptures, I would rather read a Watchtower than what you are teaching.
I have already discussed "my Only Hope". You can read it as many times as you like in your Archives. I admit that I am a sinner and may have lost my salvation because of what Hebrews says. You disagree with the scriptures in Hebrews also when it comes to losing your salvation, but believe the same scriptures when you want to talk about my "Only Hope'.
If you believe that once you are saved you can never lose your salvation, then why do you worry that I have lost mine.
You are a Hypocrite and only use scriptures to say what you want them to mean for your advantage.
If we are saved and have eternal life once we accept Christ, then why would you say I am lost and not a born again Christian even if I say I am not saved anymore?
Blessed Assurance:
My only Hope is: The only way to the Father is through the Son Jesus Christ. (John 6:65 John 14:6-7)
It is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.
(Ephesians 2:8-10)
If I willfully sin and my sins are no longer forgiven, then I have no hope unless God forgives my sins which the bible says he doesn't in Hebrews.
You apostle John, who wrote the Book of Revelation, tells us that anyone who doesn't accept the mark of the beast or worship him nor his image, will be in the first Resurrection and the second death has no power over them.
If I don't accept the Mark of the beast nor worship him, or if I am killed by his evil forces Then according to Apostle John I will be in the first Resurrection and reign with Christ for a thousand years.
Only thing is... it won't be by my works. It would be by the grace of God that I would do or not do whatever I do,
Just as the Pharaoh of Egypt had no say so what so ever in releasing or keeping God's children, the Israelites.
God hardened his heart so he would not let God's people go until the Pharaoh lost his first born son then he let them go.
God didn't stop there though. He hardened the Pharaoh's heart again and made him send his army out after the Israelites to overcome them and kill them.
Then God destroyed not only the Pharaoh, but his entire army as well. He had no freewill choice in his actions. He did what God made him do.
Just as I will do whatever it is God predestined me to do. Works will have nothing to do with it. I can say I will do this or that, but I will do whatever God has planned for me.
THAT, Blessed Assurance, is my "Only Hope". If Nobody loses their salvation, as you believe, then I have nothing to worry about, but if I and the scriptures are right, You have something to worry about.
After reading what you have to say about bible scriptures, I would rather read a Watchtower than what you are teaching.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 8:12 PM
No doubt you had, and you should if you want to be more in like company of thought and beliefs.
If you believe that once you are saved you can never lose your salvation, then why do you worry that I have lost mine.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 8:12 PM
My chief worry is that your deceptive theories can cause others to loose their blessings of peace and joy and assurance.
If you are truly saved and a child of God, you will be chastisted by your loving Father but never given away. Even our earthly fathers exhibit that degree of love and it is nothing compared to the love of our heavenly Father.
Perhaps you do not recognize the difference between a child of God and a bastard.
Hebrews 12
6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Are you a son of God or a bastard? The answer lies in the answer of the question...."whom is the father of your "only hope".
If we are saved and have eternal life once we accept Christ, then why would you say I am lost and not a born again Christian even if I say I am not saved anymore?
Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 8:12 PM
I don't know if you are a son of God or not. You have claimed you are lost but I believe that is only something God knows. I have no idea. I can only respond to your claims.
THAT, Blessed Assurance, is my "Only Hope".
Posted by Unique-Lies on Sun, Jan 24, 2010, at 8:12 PM
You stated your "only hope" up to a point you claimed to have passed many years ago but left off what is your present day "only hope"?
My question is not...."what was your only hope" but rather "what is your only hope today". They differ drastically according to what you have claimed.
I want you and everyone to cling to and not give up on your original "only hope" which will bring peace and joy to you to give if you do not allow Satan to rob you of it.
Blessed Assurance,
You posted:
I don't know if you are a son of God or not. You have claimed you are lost but I believe that is only something God knows. I have no idea. I can only respond to your claims.
I told you that I received Christ as my Lord and Savior when I was young.
That makes me a born again Christian for life, errr I mean, everlasting, eternal life, according yo YOU!
What part of that don't you understand?
You say I am doing the Devils work. You say the Devil has employed me to devalue the gift of Salvation and employed as a deceiving angel from Satan because I speak the True word of God.
Why do you question and devalue the gift of the blood Jesus Christ shed for my sin?
Is his blood only valid in your veins and not mine? Was my anointing void because of the word of God and I have become a devil to torment you because I prophesy.
Have you condemned the Jehovah Witnesses to eternal hell also because they know more then you do?
All Christians confess that their Faith in God will protect them from whatever, YET YOU say a mere man like me can destroy the faith and belief of all other Christians.
A new found CHristian has more faith then an old Christian because God is within them guiding them. They have the power to rebuke Satan and me as well if they like. I only teach what to watch out for and don't be deceived by what the churches teach.
Then you posted:
My question is not...."what was your only hope" but rather "what is your only hope today". They differ drastically according to what you have claimed.
I just explained it to you. Do you not understand the English Language? You can read it in the archives if you can.
I just explained it to you. Do you not understand the English Language? You can read it in the archives if you can.
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 3:27 PM
I understand the English language well enough to know that you described your "only hope" up to a point many years ago. You repeatedly have claimed you lost your salvation years ago when you claimed you sinned within all of 10 minutes after. You replaced your original hope with a new and current only "hope".
I also took your advise and read the archives. I found your theory of your current "only hope" -
The only hope for me is being Martyred
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Wed, Aug 6, 2008, at 2:14 PM
No not me!
I am scared over His return. Jesus is returning not to forgive but to punish us for all we have done and not done on this earth.
Will you be able to stand fast while people are falling dead all around you?? Am I scared about Jesus returning... Hell yes I am!
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Sat, Sep 27, 2008, at 9:31 AM
If I die tomorrow, I go to Hell, but I will go down fighting and quoting scriptures in his face.
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Sep 29, 2008, at 8:14 PM
Where is the peace, joy, and faith at. All I read is terror, fear, and unrest.
Those are not fruits of the Spirit. At least not the Holy Spirit.
I do not want to see anyone live in this uncalled for state. There is peace and joy through faith in Christ.
Why punish yourself and mainly why attempt to rob other people of their peace and joy afforded by the Spirit?
I hope it is not just "misery loves company".
Jesus is not returning to punish "us" Christians. He is returning to punish unbelievers better known as "them". I think you get mixed up a lot by not recognizing the key and appropriate uses of "us" and "them" in reading scripture.
Just like the example of Christ coming as a thief in the night. He comes as a thief in the night to "them". But "we" are not overtook on that day as by a thief.
"We" expect, anticipate and look up for that day.
"They" are overtaken by that day as thief when "we" are snatched away.
"They" will think a thief has come.
"We" will know a thief did not come, but rather the owner came to claim His sheep which are "us".
I told you that I received Christ as my Lord and Savior when I was young.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 3:27 PM
Yes, and you said you lost it 10 minutes later.
Keep in mind that is your theory, not mine.
As I have told you numerous times, I don't think God gives His children away after 10 minutes. I don't think He gives His children up period.
I believe he loves "us" and chastens "us" children of His when we sin, but give "us" up,....... never.
Our earthly fathers would not even do that.
Stop allowing Satan to rob you of your available peace, joy and assurrance.
And by all means limit the robbing to yourself if you know no better or just can't help yourself.
Why drag others off into your dread, doom and gloom terror with you?
Blessed Assurance,
And just how does God chasten you? Does he allow the devil to torment, torture and kill your family like he did with Job, or are you still waiting to be chastized by the trials and tribulation of the beast?
Remember what Paul said?
Christ returns with a shout, the voice of the angel and the trump of God before the souls are caught up in the clouds.
There will be thundering and lightening coming from the east going to west, the sun will be darkened like sackcloth and the moon will be blood red,
Then you will be one of the billions to be taken away when Christ descends to earth.
No secret Rapture there. It will be seen by everyone on earth. It says everyone, rich and poor, bond and free will run to the caves and tell the mountains to fall on them.
I am hoping that I am among the ones who are left. I sure don't want to be the one who is taken, just like it was in the days of Noah when the evil were taken away by the flood and the righteous were left on the earth.
BUT, no matter what I say, I am only preparing Christians for what is to come. Don't believe what I teach, read it and study it for yourselves.
Don't take anyone's word for it except God's Word. Don't follow Unique-Lies, Blessed Assurance nor Michael Bell. Follow the Word of God.
Don't believe what I teach, read it and study it for yourselves.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 6:50 PM
We don't believe you and we have read it for ourselves.
Christ returns with a shout, the voice of the angel and the trump of God before the souls are caught up in the clouds.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 6:50 PM
You left off the part about the ones He brings with Him.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Then three verses later is where we are caught up or snatched away to meet Him.
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
It says we which are alive, not souls as you so candidly changed just a little.
No secret Rapture there. It will be seen by everyone on earth. It says everyone, rich and poor, bond and free will run to the caves and tell the mountains to fall on them.
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Mon, Jan 25, 2010, at 6:50 PM
Of coarse it isn't secret. Paul has already prepared "us" for it.
But it will come upon "them" like a thief in the night.
Are you prepared for it or are you going to wake up, look around and wonder who stole all the sheep.
If you are not prepared and anticipating it, all you will see is a bunch of goats left behind, soon to be running for cover in the caves.
Yes, indeed all the goats will think the sheep were snatched away in a twinkling of an eye by a thief in the night.
Uniquelies,
Say.......pooof!
That's almost as fast as the twinkle of an eye.
Pooof...."we" will be snatched away.
Goats run like Hell for the caves.
Blessed Assurance,
Brilliant!
even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
You left out verse 16 where the dead in Christ rise first.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
->> and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
-> Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
If these who are asleep are in heaven they don't need to be raised because they would already be raised and in heaven with the lord.
That isn't the case. The dead in Christ are in the earth not heaven.
Where did Paul say "But it will come upon "them" like a thief in the night."? You are taking something out of context and content again.
You have been watching too many anti-Christ movies and videos.
Christ doesn't snatch anyone off the earth! The Holy Spirit told Paul to write... "Then we which are alive and remain". That does not sound like Christ is snatching up people in the twinkle of an eye, but is waiting until they are the only ones remaining alive.
Oh yeah, Jesus is coming like a thief in the night alright and going to take one and leave the other...
Poof! You are Snatched out of here. Amen!
Matthew 24:38-51
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came,
---{and took them all away;}--- so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; ---{the one shall be taken}---, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; ---{the one shall be taken}---, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and ---{would not have suffered his house to be broken up}---.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
--->50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
--->Nothing here says {one will be caught up} and the other left. It says one will be taken "like in the days of Noah" when everyone was {"TAKEN"} in the flood except for 8 people.
Poof! and YOU will be snatched away in the twinkle of an eye!
If this Old Goat gets left, I will be smiling like Hell!
If this Old Goat gets left, I will be smiling like Hell!
-- Posted by Unique-Lies on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 1:52 AM
As I have said before we have differing opinions.
I am content with getting snatched up with the sheep.
You can be happy staying with the goats in the caves hiding in fear and terror.
Your view of Jesus differs from mine. I look forward to seeing Him. I want to run to Him, not away from Him. Not because of what I have done for Him, but rather what He has done for me a sinner. I believe in the Promise.
As can be see above in your posting of Matthew 24:38-51, your view and theory as usual is opposite of the majority of Christians.
Preacher Arnold on the weekday mornings believes the way I do about Matthew scriptures. I do not believe everything that he preaches but he does believe many of the things I teach.
For example he believes the soul never sleeps but he believes the body sleeps. I have never read anything like that. The body goes back to dust so that only leaves the soul to sleep. That is what the scriptures say. The Holy Spirit returns to God because it is God but contains the memory of you. The memory of you is present with God but not the soul.
I didn't say "old goat in the caves hiding in fear and terror. The bible says we that are alive and remain. All the others are destroyed by the sword that protrudeth from His mouth and eaten by the fowls of the earth.
Those who are alive and remain at that time will be in the first Resurrection and become Priests and Kings to God and the Lamb.
Blessed Assurance,
Even Perry Stone claims there is too much "JUNK" in the church. It is cluttering up the teachings of the Holy Spirit.
Perry Stone said the church will be shaken to get rid of all this junk, because the church isn't learning nor hearing nor teaching what the Holy Spirit is saying.
Where have you heard that before?
To Prove my point... Watch all the Christian documents you can on the History Channel, A&E and Discovery Channel and watch how MOST of the Bible Experts agree with the fictional stories. Listen to what the Christian Theologians say about these fictional tales as though they just might be true. Even the Christian Preachers won't dare just come out and say this is a work of fiction and never happened that way.
They say things like Mary is the person who started Christianity. Jesus may have been married to Mary or Mary would be the woman married to Jesus IF He was married, not voicing their knowledge that Jesus never married anyone because it would have made Jesus no better than the fallen angels.
They say Noah was a wine distributor and shipped other products as well on the river and escaped from his clients who he owed money to, which is anti-Christ to what the bible tells us.
These Bible Scholars, Bible Experts, Preachers and Theologians have no back bone or they don't believe what God tells us in his word.
It's experts like these that introduce Unique-Lies into the churches around the world. Church goers just follow the preachers like lost sheep in the wilderness instead of reading the word for themselves and leading the herd instead of following lost sheep.
If anyone has trouble reading the bible and understanding it go to the New Living Translation of the Bible. It is simple enough for children to read and understand. I use it on some verses then read it in the KJV for accuracy. Some verses are so simple that they actually lose the true meaning.
You will find it here:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...
Perry Stone said the church will be shaken to get rid of all this junk, because the church isn't learning nor hearing nor teaching what the Holy Spirit is saying.
Where have you heard that before?
Uniquelies,
I don't of one common theory you share in common with Perry Stone.
It would only take him 5 minutes of listening to you before he brought at the oil and started trying to heal you and your mind. :))
They say things like Mary is the person who started Christianity. Jesus may have been married to Mary or Mary would be the woman married to Jesus IF He was married, not voicing their knowledge that Jesus never married anyone because it would have made Jesus no better than the fallen angels.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 2:47 PM
I have never claimed that you were the only quack running loose.
:-q Blessed Assurance,
You posted:
I don't of one common theory you share in common with Perry Stone.
It would only take him 5 minutes of listening to you before he brought at the oil and started trying to heal you and your mind. :))
->:-?? You Really Do need to brush up on your English Language if you are going to Read and write it. 8-}
Unique-Lies,
I didn't know I was competing in a grammar "test".
Fortunately though, you got and understood the message.
I notice numerous mistakes in your English but generally I can make sense of what you are attempting to say and can recognize it as false theories and move froward without needing to call your attention to some trivial typos.
I didn't say "old goat in the caves hiding in fear and terror.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 2:47 PM
Unique-Lies,
(1) - You stated you hoped you were left here at Christ return.
(2) - You stated everyone will see it and that everyone will run to the caves and tell the mountains to fall on them.
(3) - You referenced yourself as "this Old Goat".
(4) - You have stated you have fear and terror of His return.
Reasonable Conclusion : "old goat in the caves hiding in fear and terror."
Perhaps you never realize what you are saying sometimes ??
Think about it and tell me how it makes sense.
Preacher Arnold on the weekday mornings believes the way I do about Matthew scriptures.
Posted by Unique-Lies on Tue, Jan 26, 2010, at 1:41 PM
I watch Preacher Arnold also from time to time. He's a hoot. You ever seen the show where someone hollered "blasphemy" to him and he pulled out a 9 mm and threatened them with it?
He also gets wound up on his Serpent Seed theory from time to time along with the Kenenites.
He reminds me a lot of you. Somewhat mouthy, arrogant, mixed up thinking he knows it all. I'd like to purchase him for what he was worth and sell him for what he thought he was worth. But he is a hoot to watch. If I included you in the deal I'd make Bill Gates look like a pauper. :)
I may be off a few years but I think there was a time he was hellbent proclaiming his secret that the world was ending in the early 80's and said Armageddon was going to occur in Alaska.
So it does not suprise me that you two agree on some theory.
I've told you before, don't feel like the Lone Ranger. Other people are just as mixed up and out there as you appear to be. :)))
Blessed Assurance,
I will fear Christ before he comes. There will be so much thundering and lightening and loud voices and trumps above in the atmosphere, that I know I will be scared.
Surely when the Heavens roll up like a scroll before my very eyes, I will shutter at the mere site and no doubt drop some fruit in my looms.
As far as hiding in the caves, I don't have any caves around me to hide in so that is out and the fact that I know that is what everyone is going to do. I won't be doing it because I know it will not hide them.
By knowing God's word I can prepare for his coming.
No one will be able to die in that time period. They will beg for death but it won't come. This is the Wrath of God coming to get his evil doers. Those who are left will remain alive. Those who are taken, well, you should know the truth by now!!!
I will repeat it again for you... everyone will fear the Lord when he returns. Even the Christians who are here after the tribulation of the beast.
It will be coming soon. 2 banks in Florida and 1 in Missouri failed this past week. Seems like the FDIC isn't doing too good either because it is Bankrupt also. 81 banks have failed since the Bailout. There are 416 Problem Banks that will need to be bailed out by the FDIC or shut down.
Your money isn't safe in any of the banks today. The stimulus money has destroyed the US Dollar. President Obama (under orders of G-7) is spending money we don't have by spending more money. The FDIC will deplete the value of our money when it is bailed out.
The foreign countries are demanding that we change to a currency that is equal to their money because we can't pay back the countries we owe.
We are almost a one world order now. It just keeps getting closer.
Soon now the False Prophet will appear with his new religion. He won't have to change our Christian Religion by much to make it a false religion. It is already teaching Unique-Lies and the Bible Scholars and Theologians agree with false stories about bible events.
When G-7 gets through with us the Beast will reign in terror. For you who don't understand.... this is the Trials and Tribulation John spoke of.
Now for the Good News!
The value of the US Dollar is declining into nothing.
The cost of living is skyrocketing and is going to keep climbing. This means the price of everything will keep going higher and higher.
Maybe I should rephrase that.
The cost of NECESSITIES - utilities, oil, food, gas of all types, clothing and most importantly, Gold, Silver and other metals etc. will be so expensive that many people won't be able to survive.
In order to survive this G-7 controlled collapse and recovery we must prepare to ride it out just like they are going to do.
They lower the value of the US Dollar by spending, spending and spending until it's more than we can pay, raise the interest rates, lower our GDP then tell us everything is okay.
First they buy up stock in the above mentioned commodities and utilities. They continue spending money so these stocks will keep climbing.
Why do these stocks keep climbing. Supply and Demand. We need these commodities and Utilities to survive and that is what goes UP in Cost. The cost of living keeps climbing with the devalue of the US Dollar.
When G-7 has made all the money they want to or the economy is so near destruction, they will bring in the answer to our problems.
A New one World Currency. Everything will smooth out when this happens.
Problem is ... it may not even be a currency, but a debit card or bio-chip containing all your information with your banking number of the beast.
The world is watching Hatti, WHO IS WATCHING these Anti-Christs?
I will agree with you on Preacher Arnold Murray. He comes up with stuff I have never heard of. He says the souls from the last earth age is here on earth today. I gather he is saying everyone was reincarnated from one of the earlier souls.
No, I never saw that episode. I don't watch him that much. He just doesn't have it all together in his teachings. His son is coming up just like him. He, like so many others, tries to redefine the Hebrew and Greek words. He believes Satan had sex with eve, but then again he believes there were two eves. My bible only mentions one eve and she would become the mother of all the living
Genesis 3:20
Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.