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Taxpayer B&TPosted Thursday, November 20, 2008, at 1:02 AM
So here we are at a point where the taxpayers are sick of hearing about it and with the election finally behind us, it seems that the government is tired of hearing it also. I find myself wondering why the banks that have been receiving their public assistance cash are not competing for GM and Ford's business right now. We, as taxpayers, should be outraged at the audacity of these corporate leaders and we can only hope that eventually our representatives will do their part to ensure that fraud and abuse at the top is kept in check. Labor unions are in the same position as management when it comes to wages and benefits in my opinion. At some point managers and workers are going to have to accept less compensation or these American icons could fail. Comments Showing comments in chronological order [Show most recent comments first] |
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I don't know Nathan, I think that the unions are good, I think private jets are good also. I believe the problem is that there is simply not enough current demand to justify either one. We as a society prefer other car manufacturers at this time, so they have less and less of the market and that is where their financial problems stem. If almost everyone here were purchasing their car that was made by the American companies, the unions could be supported, as well as the jets. We could try to demand an end to the global economy and the auto makers here would prosper. The flip side to being anti-global though, is that "they" also provide to our economy in many ways. It has almost become a situation whereby we have to oppose our own best interests. To let them fail would have fairly sizable consequences, but to support them with market protections would also. To bail them out also leads to future potential problems, not the least of which is governmental monopolies. I am at a loss, and unable to formulate an opinion. In a best case scenario, they would not receive the funds, and would survive pretty well intact anyway with some restructuring that would almost have to include lowering wages for all, or better yet, condensing production methods and products with fewer workers and suppliers.
You voted for Obama and he is championing these bailouts and so far his policies are pretty much if you throw enough money at a problem, it will go away (which we all know is not the case). He is even saying now we shouldn't worry or focus on the deficit for the next couple of years.
Get use to it . . . it is the kind of CHANGE you wanted! But hey, Obama supporters evidently were listening too much about what he had to say anyway or what he stood for.
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.cfm?I...
weren't listening I mean . . .
To end the spending spree of Congress, we must change our representatives: http://tennesseetaylorfor6th.blogspot.co...
We should not be sending TN Taxpayer Money to multi-million dollar NYC corporations.
Nathan I agree with you
This buy out will only be a temp. fix, the unions want it because they don't want to renegotiate contracts, If they get it, in two years they will still be in the same shape. To stay competive with Honda and Toyota they need to cut pay and benafits, CEO's need to take cuts on bonuses and the union needs to take cuts. I would rather take less in pay and have a job, then to not have a job at all. Greed is what ruins these companies.
They could start with selling all those private jets they own.
Why are we bailing out anywone at all? I didn't see anyone mention AIG or the Banks? Aren't they supposed to be managing money?
I would rather bailout the Automakers then the banks and insurance companies.
"I don't believe we have the luxury of a lot of time," GM CEO Rick Wagoner told a House hearing.
Didn't we hear these exact same words from the Big Banks just weeks ago? Didn't we hand them Billions of dollars? Please show me where one thing has changed since they received this money, they were in so much need of that our entire economy was going to crash without it...Have you looked at the Dow recently, it is down about 900 points in 2 days. So what did our 700+ Billion dollars get us? And what do you honestly think 25 Billion will do for the Automakers? It will be just a tie over until the end of the year then they will be back with their hand out all over again. When and where will it all end? Should we just go ahead and bailout Dillards and JC Pennys too? Or Maybe we could just give them All a Blank Check and say "take what you need", it's not like we really have the money anyway.
The fix is simple. Let GM file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. This should let them out of the ridiculous labour contracts they have now. Let them cut half of their models, cut the number of dealers, and fire at least 50% of the management. A bitter pill to take, but then the only way to save the patient.
Who's gona bail me out that since my job will be ending the last of November 2008. Good timming Thanksgiving and Christmas not good for ones spirit it really make you think who's next? So if they can bail out big giant corporation who cares about little OLD me. Only GOD really cares.
Chef I have to say I think I agree. While I was in favor of injecting liquidity into financial markets (I think history speaks to that) lending money to the automakers at this time would simply be kicking the can down the road. The financial services sector and the auto industry are vastly different in their scope and their products. If we could get a leaner, meaner auto industry out of this (instead of the bloated slob we now have) in the long run both the companies and the unions would benefit. As it is now, the UAW is staring straight down the barrel of a major, permanent hit.
Posted from a previous blog:
Agreed. GM, Ford and Chrysler were churning out gas-guzzling SUV's and trucks like madmen up until early 2007. Why? Because those vehicles still represented a disproportionate profit of their overall line of vehicles? Instead of being a proactive company, they all those to be reactive.
Nissan, Honda, Toyota and a few others saw the trend coming, saw the gas prices relentlessly rising and realized that even when gas prices fell, they mindset of consumers would be to live within their means and not waste so much time on the road, doing absolutely nothing!
The Unions, by and large are a huge problem, irrespective of our opinions, Unions no longer simply "protect" workers, they have created loopholes and frankly ridiculous by-laws that mandate an employee get paid (including benefits) anywhere form $50-75 dollars an hour, EVEN when the lines are down.. Yes, GM, Ford and Chrysler can literally send people home for the day, say 4 hours early, but they still get paid for 4 hours of non-production. That is not what the Unions were designed to do, and that is precisely why they have such a bad image.
I say, let them file Chapter 11, restructure their entire organizations, and if they can't do it without government help, then perhaps they should just dissolve... Other car companies will eventually grow and those 3+ million employees will have a job, perhaps through a Japanese, German, Korean or a new American auto maker, that pays them for the work they DO, instead of the work they DON'T DO!
The audacity of CEO's flying into Washington D.C. on private jets, while asking for $25 billion is sickening. The simple fact that none of these companies are willing to effectively change, or none of their CEO's are willing to step down for their disastrous behavior is baffling. They all agreed to change their salaries to $1 per year in order to prove their need for the money... My, if only the guy at the local soup kitchen needing food for the winter was in such a position to say that.
We actually agree on this darrick_04 . . . I couldn't have said it better.
Thanks! It truly disgusts me that they come to D.C. expecting handouts yet they have chosen to continue living their lavish lifestyles, as their companies burn through billions of dollars a month... I hate it for the workers who truly deserve some help, and the retirees who have their entire life savings (before the Unions became so bullish) about to dissolve.
But, I do feel that if we live in a truly capitalistic society then at some point, we HAVE to let businesses fail. Chapter 11 Bankruptcy was set up to allow the business to continue its "normal" operations, while making essentially every prior contract null and void. If that were to happen, the (former) Big 3 would return to the dominating forces to be reckoned with that they enjoyed for a century.
I realize Obama says "something needs to be done", however the CEOs and Board of Directors of each of these companies should face the strictest stipulations imaginable and there should be a clause in ANY agreement to guarantee repayment of the debt to the government (if the bailout were to become viable).
Yes, I drive a Nissan, as does the majority of my family.. but what many don't know is that in the mid 90s Nissan was on the verge of bankruptcy... and rather than getting a bailout from Japan they allied themselves with Renault, a french automaker, restructured the entire management team, completely revamped their product lines, shed thousands of jobs (they realized that many positions were duplicating work and therefore redundant) and began paying off debt in massive proportions. Ten years later, and they were named the most profitable automaker in the world. It can be done, without government assistance, just ask the hundreds of companies who experienced it.
Yeah, evidently car makers can survive in today's market because you see such companies like Volkswagen and Honda continue to build factories in the USA so evidently they are doing something right while the US automakers are following a failed business plan that will not change if you continue to bail them out of bad decision making. Greed on the part of CEOs and union members (yes, they are at fault too) have caused most of the problem for these companies and it needs to be checked and corrected before the taxpayers hand out their hard earned money. I mean really, do CEOs need private jets and lavish parties and union employees receiving almost 90% of pay and full benefits while being laid off for 9 months to a year. It is ridiculous! I saw a news piece about Toyota who believes in job security and employee loyalty and when they shut down for a few months for slow down, they will send their employees out to do community service while getting paid. Toyota also pays their CEOs far less than the US automakers but yet they are not losing huge amounts of money that the American automakers are (they are making a profit). So, why aren't companies like GM and Ford taking a look and seeing what these other companies are doing right and they are doing wrong? Oh yeah, because they don't wont change.
Here is the news article on what I saw on CBS news last night about Toyota and what they are doing. It is definitely food for thought . . .
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/2...
I really don't understand it either especially with VW. Yes they are cute little cars but the repairs on them are ridiculous and they are not cheap cars either. All the review sites say about the same thing about repairs..which I wish I had read before I purchased one just because they are cute and fairly easy on gas.
http://www.grumblemutterspit.org/vwsucks...
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotiv...
http://www.mycarstats.com/auto_COMPLAINT...
And those are just a very few of the website complaints against VW
VW price quotes
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.c...
If GM is so broke - I wonder where they came up with the $3.5 million to open that new factory in Russia about a month ago?
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081107/eu_russia...
In fact as near as 30 days ago they appeared to be doing quite well in markets outside the U.S.
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServl...
It would be my guess - bailing them out will only postpone the inevitable for their U.S. operations and they already know that. The best they are hoping for is to off-load all their debt in the U.S., restructure, downsize, and continue off-shoring anything profitable. They will survive - they just aren't planning for it to be here.
dianatn . . . I wanted a Pasat so bad when I was looking at cars 3 years ago but then I looked up the repairs cost and maintenance of them decided against it because it was too high. I settled for a Chevy Malibu LS and have been happy with my purchase since then (that's after owning several foreign cars).
Next car I buy with either be the newly design Chevy Malibu or the new Hyundai Genesis. :-)
Who's gona bail me out that since my job will be ending the last of November 2008. Good timming Thanksgiving and Christmas not good for ones spirit it really make you think who's next? So if they can bail out big giant corporation who cares about little OLD me. Only GOD really cares.
-- Posted by RGeneW on Thu, Nov 20, 2008, at 6:12 PM
Below is a link to apply for unemployment.
http://www.tennesseeanytime.org/labor/
Thanks alot for the bailout $129 is not gona even pay for my health Ins. let alone my other living expenses and debts I owe. While big corparations fly around in LARGE JETS and receive government bailout and make off with large lumps of money and throw me the grumbs. Sounds great to me? That's what 41 years of honest hard working has to offer me in times of trouble. THANKS YOUR JOB IS OVER CALL UNEMPLOYEMENT THEY WILL HELP YOU SURE
I heard this once and think its very true."Your job is only as safe as your ability to get another one".
Companies want loyalty from their workers, but don't want to give any back.
It seems we are now bailing out Citigroup. Does anyone know if this 20 Billion we are giving them is coming from the 700B we gave Wall Street? If not Why not..have they already used this money?
Well the nubers are in with my bail out. What I get from unemployement will not cover my Health Ins and car payement(are electric bill). So each month I go deeper into the hole. One can only dig a hole for his self so deep then what. With lay off each day jobs aren't plentful.