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[Shelbyville Times-Gazette]
Shelbyville, Tennessee ~ Monday, October 6, 2008
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Justice?
Posted Tuesday, August 14, 2007, at 10:02 AM
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Ok, the main thing that I wanted to discuss today was one of my first impressions of Bell Buckle. I fell in love with this area the first time I drove out here. The Bell Buckle Café had great food and a really nice atmosphere. I mainly drove from work to home and, occasionally went to eat there while I was here by myself for a few weeks. Once my wife arrived, we were sitting in the bedroom watching TV (didn't have living room furniture up yet). While we were sitting there watching something inane on television, there was a loud and concussive explosion. I looked out the window and saw the Webb barn in flames at the end of the street. I called 911 and they informed me that they had already been called. Next I had the normal human reaction to something like this; I walked outside to look at the ensuing disaster. I met a couple of my neighbors that night. Unfortunately that's how I met several of my neighbors over the next few months. My wife and I were beginning to wonder exactly what in the world we had gotten ourselves into by moving to this quiet, unassuming town. Until they had made the arrests, we were scared to leave our dogs and cat at the house in the evenings since most of the fires that we'd heard about had happened in the mid-evening. The reason that I mentioned this is that I had heard, from a neighbor, that they had sentenced the "firefighters" that were responsible for the reign of terror on that "quiet, unassuming town" that we had moved into. From what I've heard (and I may be mistaken) these people were sentenced to four years of unsupervised probation. For burning down and destroying other people's property, these boys got off scot-free. That barn had been standing for about a hundred years from what I've read. If this, in fact, is what they received as their "punishment" for destroying property and putting the lives of the local residents and the REAL firefighters that weren't responsible for the fires, at risk, then I believe we may have moved to the wrong area. I hate to think that there's a judge anywhere around here that could possibly consider that to be justice. PLEASE, PLEASE someone tell me that I was informed incorrectly about this "punishment".


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Nope you aren't wrong or if you are, I heard exactly the same thing.

But that is much like the cattle rustling trial where probation was the answer there also.

Seems we are more worried about wearing seat belts or going over the speed limit by 5 miles an hour than the true and real crimes..

-- Posted by Dianatn on Tue, Aug 14, 2007, at 10:46 AM

Well, I tried searching for any coverage of the trial or sentencing on the T-G site, but I wasn't able to find anything on it. I guess this was kept rather quiet. When I was shocked at the "punishment" (I keep putting that in quotation marks since it's not really the right word for the sentence they received) my neighbor asked me if I knew who their families were. I told him that I didn't and he mentioned that they were some of the local "well connected" families. It's ridiculous that someone didn't step up and say it didn't matter who their families were, that they needed to learn a lesson. If it was actually family influence that swayed the judge, then the families aren't doing the arsonists any favors. If they've done it once (or repeatedly as in this case) they will do it again. Once they burn down a place that has someone in it, it will be murder which, from what I can tell, unless you're a preacher's "abused" wife you won't get away with a slap on the wrist. If this is, indeed, the case then the judge that determined that this was a just "punishment" needs to be removed from the bench.

-- Posted by Thom on Tue, Aug 14, 2007, at 11:20 AM

I've got a better one for you. Another local fireman has been arrested numerous times for domestic abuse and driving while intoxicated. Not only has the justice system closed their eyes to this repeat offender but also the city that continues to employ him. Ive decided that since the local justice system that has covered for him and the city that refuses to punish him will not do anything about his repeat offenses of crimes against women and crimes against society, I in response will tell all my family and friends to hurt him where it counts and refuse to do business with him at his local car detailing company.

-- Posted by Justunjust on Tue, Aug 14, 2007, at 11:30 AM

Wow, it would be a good idea to let more people know about this, except that you would have to be VERY careful not to step over the line of slander or libel if he hasn't actually been found guilty of any of that. Don't get me wrong, I've got the utmost respect for firefighters. I have done fire fighting in the Navy and I have to respect anyone that is willing to do that daily for a living. I could not do that as a career (good thing I'm good with computers). What really burned me the most about the Bell Buckle fires (pardon the pun), is that these fires were started by the very people that were supposed to be there to protect the local residents and businesses from that very thing. That's akin to a police officer that goes around robbing and killing people.

-- Posted by Thom on Tue, Aug 14, 2007, at 12:05 PM

Wow! I could really get on a soapbox about this subject and probably fly off in about a million different directions, but I'll try to stay on subject.

First of all I am a native of Shelbyville/Bedford County. I am in my mid 40's and have lived here all my life, except for a ten year period, when I moved to TX. I have been back home in TN for 17 years now.

Here is the real true about justice:

Shelbyville/Bedford County HAS BEEN, IS and ALWAYS WILL BE a place where it's WHO YOU ARE or WHO YOU KNOW that determines what your sentence, fine or whatever occurs to one in criminal court. The main focus of the courts & law enforcement departments in this area is to generate revenue thru traffic fines, court costs, and whatever other money can be generated.

Do not think I am disrespecting all of Bedford County LEO's. For the most part I think they do a great job, but it is the system of the higher up officials that allow the above mentioned to go on. Apparently the majority of folks around here don't mind, because the same people get elected term after term.

I'm off the soapbox now and JMHO,

William

-- Posted by HorseGentler on Tue, Aug 14, 2007, at 12:54 PM

Awe, well since your blog is about fires and I am a flamer according to your comrade I would like you to take a second to FATHOM the very same idea about OUR GOVERNMENT "ATTACKING THEIR OWN PEOPLE!!!"

To me this is no different, there are always a few radicals who get away with everything, and there are always those in power who let them off the hook.

Ever wonder why I fear my government no less than you fear your fire department?

It is a different situation but with the same moral to the story. We all have opinions and nobody is forcing that on anyone!

Ironic that we have the same tactics being used ... those in a position of service starting the very thing they fight against. Just because it is a local event that didn't affect the entire country, nobody questions anything? Those with power and tons of money can buy their way out of anything.

I wonder why we don't have publicly available evidence to disprove those conspiracy theorists. When a local judge can just slap the wrist of firefighters its no wonder our government seems to be above the law too!

But I don't call anyone names on these blogs and nobody has been on in days, because there really isn't anything worth replying to. No pun intended!

-- Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Tue, Aug 14, 2007, at 1:04 PM

HorseGentler, that is the sad truth about Bedford County, which is a part of what was discussed in other blogs...

Discussing growth, etc. People want change yet they never find it in them to vote for different folks. Slowly but surely that is changing. New Sheriff, New mayor for both the city and county, so finally people are sick and tired of the same ol same ol.

-- Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Tue, Aug 14, 2007, at 1:08 PM

jesuslovesevery1, I don't believe anyone in this blog mentioned you calling anyone anything. Also, how is our government "attacking their own people"? Sure, there are issues here and there with our government on national, state, and local levels, but for the most part our form of government has been proven time and again to work better than most (if not all). The judicial system is really what I was complaining about in this blog. If that's what you're referring to, I agree that the judicial system is destroying our country with the "activist judges" out there that rip away at our Constitution over and over, on both the left and the right.

-- Posted by Thom on Tue, Aug 14, 2007, at 1:23 PM

"The main focus of the courts & law enforcement departments in this area is to generate revenue thru traffic fines, court costs, and whatever other money can be generated. "

I did a story on city traffic court last week and I'd have to say local folks are getting off light.

Try living in Virginia.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/2...

-- Posted by Brian Mosely on Tue, Aug 14, 2007, at 1:31 PM

I had read about that. That's insane. I couldn't believe that the "commonwealth" had the nerve to pass those fines. One of these cases will go to the Supreme Court at some point. There are so many things wrong with their new "civil penalties" that it's ridiculous. That would certainly make people slow down though.

-- Posted by Thom on Tue, Aug 14, 2007, at 1:35 PM

Brian Mosely said: "I did a story on city traffic court last week and I'd have to say local folks are getting off light.""Try living in Virginia."

Brian, I saw your article last week. Now I may agree with you that the laws and fines in TN. are less than they are in VA., but you also mentioned in your article about how full the court room was and that's with people that have clean records being able to go to the cashier's desk and able to pay a fine with probation, which still goes in city coffers and also keeps many folks from having to enter the court room.

I'm all for keeping the streets safe, but personally I believe it's turned into more than that. I also do not agree (if I read the article correctly) with putting officer's on the road only for traffic enforcement. I feel there is enough "real crime" going on that they should be patrolling high crime areas and you better believe we have those places in Shelbyville/Bedford County.

As always JMHO,

William

-- Posted by HorseGentler on Tue, Aug 14, 2007, at 1:47 PM

Oh, I know William, there are those places in town with high crime. My point is that a $90 court cost for speeding here is a whole lot better than dishing out up to $3,000 for a ticket in Virginia, as the drivers in the Commonwealth are beginning to learn.

There are currently two Shelbyville officers that handle traffic alone, but this was at the request of many citizens who insisted that they be enforced.

The difference is, that while local cops say they are doing this to make the streets safer, the lawmakers who passed this in Virginia clearly stated that the fees were for raising revenue ... "part of the multibillion-dollar plan the state lawmakers approved this year to improve transportation around the state, particularly in Northern Virginia and Hampton Roads."

-- Posted by Brian Mosely on Tue, Aug 14, 2007, at 2:04 PM

NOTE TO SELF: STAY OUT OF VA.!

Thanks Brian! I had not read your link before I posted.

I guess some folks think that there is not enough traffic enforcement, so they complained and got those two handling traffic. Probably the same folks that wouldn't be convicted or fined if they happen to end up on the wrong side of the radar gun. LOL!

Anyways my opinion is still the same even if the lawmakers around here are not admitting to increasing enforcement to raise more revenue. I also don't believe that Bedford County has the monopoly on this type of behavior from the "Powers that be".

Has anyone ever looked at the break down of where the money from fines and COURT COSTS goes? It seems I remember seeing a few years back that the majority of these monies for court costs goes to fund retirements of judges,prosecutors and LEO's. Talk about a motivation for enforcement and possibly a motivation for some to be overzealous!

Well I'm getting close to a rant, so better stop.

JMHO,

William

-- Posted by HorseGentler on Tue, Aug 14, 2007, at 2:40 PM

Response to (Justunjust). I have knowledge of the Shelbyville City fireman in question. This fireman has a second job and he has in the past and present conducted business with members of the city and county government. Some would think that his business dealings with these members of our government have been very rewarding. He has been arrested numerous times in the past couple of years with only what some would say was minor punishment. As a result of his repeated failure to obey the law, his driving privelages were revoked enabling him to respond to emergency fires unless he is on duty or has a chaufer if he is off duty. This is sad because other city employees have been fired for less. I believe that being a Fireman is a profession to be proud of and all members of all emergency personell should conduct themselves in a professional manner. Do you think that school teachers, Cub Scout leaders, and other groups would bring thier kids to this firehall knowing that they have convicted criminals working within whom have repeatedly broken state laws. One of his arrest carried a $2500 jail bond that was issued by the judicial commissioner. Alledgedly a quick call to a customer of his at the Circuit Court Clerks office got him released on his own recognizance, totally underminding the commissioner and law enforcement. This same clerks office assisted the said fireman in obtaining his restricted license (this procedure is normally done by the probation officer). Since this case, I have often wondered whose side the clerk is on. There was one former city official who took a clear stance against law enforcement invovling this fireman. This would lead one to believe that if you know the right people, or do business with certain people, you can get away with crimes that some would lose thier job for. It is ashame that the scales of justice in this local government very depending on who you are or who you know.I would like to emphasize that this particular case doesn't apply to any other fireman with the city and that we have a very professional fire department as a whole. I'm just sadden by the unjust that occurs when politics get invovled.

-- Posted by TheProtector on Tue, Aug 14, 2007, at 9:14 PM

to TheProtector: obviuosly you have more facts about this case than I do but I also heard on the streets that this fireman once had a restricted license that permitted him to drive only between the hours of 6 am to 6 am Sunday through Monday. Was this true? If so that sounds a lot like the restrcitions I have on my license and matter of fact every other law abiding citizens license that I know of. Do you know how someone convicted of DUI can get one of those?

-- Posted by Justunjust on Tue, Aug 14, 2007, at 9:26 PM

You can also have someone arrested for harrassment and get an order of protection against them more than once in Bedford Co.(it will be thrown out) you're wasting your time! They can come to your place of employment and possibly cause you to loose your job but thats OK too! You can call the police on this same person for showing up at your house multiple times and they can even find them parked down the road and they wont do anything! You can live in fear every time your children go outside they may show up again and run them over or shot them! If your a woman you can get by with all these things in Bedford Co. as long as your Daddy has the right last name!

-- Posted by Disgusted on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 10:25 AM

As far as the Judges are concerned, I have all the respect in the world for Judge Cox! He IS fair and unbiased in my opinion.

-- Posted by Disgusted on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 10:35 AM

Who's Judge Cox? Nobody brought his name into this. What'd he do?

-- Posted by Thom on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 11:45 AM

I did! He is a Jugde in Bedford Co. My point is, I dont think the WHOLE system is corrupt!

-- Posted by Disgusted on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 1:08 PM

Oh, no. Definitely not. I wasn't even suggesting that. Just like there are plenty of firefighters out there that do NOT start fires to get their jollies, there are upstanding police officers and judges...I'm betting there are even a couple of honest lawyers out there. Sorry, I got the impression you were defending Judge Cox against something that was said on here. If he is a respectful and trustworthy judge, GREAT, we need more like him up there.

-- Posted by Thom on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 1:15 PM

I also wrote the post above the one you replied to! That is still a problem that isn't resolved and I'm guessing never will be. I wont go any deeper into that, I might get arrested myself before morning if I do!

I did read on the News Channel 5 site that they got probation because they had never been in trouble before. Well, I've never been in trouble before either but I'm guessing I would be under the jail if I burnt down something......

-- Posted by Disgusted on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 1:43 PM

You know I just read that piece. So what they're saying is that, as long as you're young, haven't been in trouble before, and act like you're remorseful (who wouldn't at that point?) you can get plead guilty to a FELONY and get off scot-free. That's just really nice. I'm wondering if any of these fine upstanding young men (who are now convicted felons) own any handguns, rifles, shotguns, or are planning on voting in upcoming elections.

-- Posted by Thom on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 2:01 PM

Was their sentence set up so that if they stay out of trouble during their probation, then the conviction will be wiped away after serving probation? I think this is called Judicial Diversion.

William

-- Posted by HorseGentler on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 2:18 PM

That's what it looks like from the article on the TV website: http://www.newschannel5.com/global/story... Regardless of that though, they are still convicted felons and, at least through their probation, do not enjoy the right to possess firearms or the right to vote.

-- Posted by Thom on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 2:22 PM

"The four men reached a plea agreement with prosecutors for two to four years probation."

Which was it 2 or 4 years probation?

"Vinson's attorney John Norton said the sentence was fair because they were all first-time offenders who also made restitution to the victims."

You gotta Love John Norton if I ever find myself in big trouble he's the lawyer I want!

But if they only get 2 years probabtion then they will only be 21 when they come off probation anyway.

It also goes on to say If Vinson successfully completes his probation, the arson charges will be expunged from his record. Expunged? meaning there will be no record of it on his background checks. I know some good people who got into trouble when they were young also, paid their price and actually did some time and 7 years later it is still a felony on their record..making it hard for them to get jobs and housing.

-- Posted by Dianatn on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 2:39 PM

I think the two to four years was probably two for the guy that ratted out the other three (who probably got four years each).

-- Posted by Thom on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 2:49 PM

awwww Revolution if you or one of your children were to get into a bit of trouble wouldn't want the man who is known for getting people off the hook?

I know I would want the best ..and Norton is a very good lawyer. It is his job to defend them and get as little punishment as possible. I am not saying I always agree with the sentences handed down but it is his job and he does it very well.

-- Posted by Dianatn on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 3:12 PM

He does it very well. NOT!

His trials wouldn't stand a chance in judicial systems outside of Bedford County.

-- Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 3:15 PM

I guess it's a good thing he pratices in Bedford County then Huh?

-- Posted by Dianatn on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 3:18 PM

Yes except for the fact that my family has been a victim of his fraud?!?!

Tell that to the family of innocent murdered people who DON'T want crooks getting off the hook!

It has happened,and will happen... Just look at the case we started discussing in this blog.

I agree with you Dianatn on most every single thing you have written to date, but I guess where one's opinion on certain lawyers are formed by how their case was handled.

-- Posted by jesuslovesevery1 on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 3:29 PM

Your probably right Thank God I have never had to use John as a lawyer I hope I never do. But I am sure if I were on the opposite side I wouldn't think much of him either.

I've just known John a long time and I guess that's were my opinions of him stem from.

-- Posted by Dianatn on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 3:37 PM

To Justunjust: Yes, I'm familiar with the case. While this Shelbyville City fireman was under oath, he stated that the Circuit Court Clerks office prepared his driving restrictions (again this procedure is normally done by youre probation officer). Prior to court proceedings the Shelbyville fireman confronted the arresting officer and stated that the veteran officer had made a wrongful arrest according to the Circuit Court Clerk because, the clerks office hadn't mailed in his D.U.I. conviction to the state. I know that sometimes citizens become fustrated with law enforcement when they see repeat offenders continue to go about thier business as if nothing never happened. Little do they know that sometimes law enforcement not only have to battle with talented attorneys but they also have to batttle with elected officials whom are in very powerful political positions. Some political officials protect these criminals for whatever reason they choose as with this this Shelbyville Fireman who has been convicted of crimes against a women and society. This Shelbyville fireman was able to retain his job with no known punshment and the arresting officers were called in by an elected official and ridiculed for arresting this fireman while he was down on his luck. I hope that through elections the people of this city and county will elect someone who has the guts to stand up for what is right and not impede the judicial proceedings. God Bless.

-- Posted by TheProtector on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 10:04 PM

Well, regarding the arsonists in Bell Buckle, I FINALLY saw something about this on the news site, and I heard about it on the radio news. I have yet to read anything on the T-G site or the Tennessean. This happened just over a week ago, what's the limit as to how long it's still considered NEWS? But not to worry, people. These poor unfortunate kids were just trying to find something to do. So they figured they would burn down and destroy other people's property. But they didn't mean to damage anything. I guess this kid hasn't learned anything from his father, who is a captain in the Shelbyville Fire Department according to News 5's article. Personally, I'd hate to think that there are people out there stupid enough to think that FIRE wouldn't DAMAGE something.

-- Posted by Thom on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 10:38 PM

We all know Justice for some is not the same Justice for all..it's a sad fact of life. If you are a celebrity you can get away with murder literally..We all know OJ is a murderer but they drug his trial out on TV for so long we all begin to think please just let him go I am sick of watching this on TV..Look at Martha Stewart she spend prison time (yes it was a cushie prison but still a prison no less) after she was released who do you see right back on National TV pitching her recipes again (if you or I go to prison you'd be lucky to get a job at McDonald's flipping burgers)

And what about Tennessee Waltz..OMG that is a whole nuther can of worms isn't it..Bribery and extortion with a slap on the wrist. I could go on and on but I think you get the point.

It's the same way in a small town it is all about who you are and who you know and you don't even have to be a celebrity here, do you?

-- Posted by Dianatn on Wed, Aug 15, 2007, at 11:55 PM

I guess not. Unfortunately.

-- Posted by Thom on Thu, Aug 16, 2007, at 12:10 AM

In all these cases, the boys who started the fire and the fireman with repeated offenses, those officials that are giving them special treatment are not helping them.

What I mean is, in some cases, these people need to face the consequences of their actions. In the case of the fireman with repeated offenses, he is getting special treatment from the circuit court because they're friends. But if this official was really his friend, he would let this guy face up to the crimes he's committed. He needs help and I pray that the special treatment will prove to help this guy get the rehabilitation that he needs. Otherwise, he will just think he can continue to do it and get away with it. (Which I personally think is the case.)

With these boys that start fires, I don't know them or their situation. While there is nothing we can do about the sentence, we can pray that they appreciate the second chance that was given to them and learn a lesson from it.

-- Posted by saveit on Thu, Aug 16, 2007, at 8:35 AM

I am posting this on what the protector has wrote. I agree with what he is saying about the city frieman that has done nothing wrong in the eyes of elected officals, but that puts a eyesore on the city itself. But the shame is there has been several other offenses done by fireman from the small town that has been convicted and they no longer have jobs anymore. I think that this doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what is going on here. And if I was the officals involved in this situation I would not want this bad sore on my mind. There needs to be some new officals brought in and things changed to where everyone is treated the same.

-- Posted by dozerman on Sun, Aug 19, 2007, at 4:02 PM


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