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Shelbyville, Tennessee ~ Thursday, November 20, 2008
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¿Inmigracion?
Posted Wednesday, October 31, 2007, at 8:56 PM<< Previous | Read comments | Respond | Email link | Next >>
Ok, I've got to find out from someone, where does Bedford County stand on the whole 287(g) program? If anyone knows the answer to this, please post it. I was just perusing the "police blotter" from Tuesday the 30th and noticed a not so surprising trend. Of the thirty-two people who were arrested in Shelbyville, there were twelve persons arrested with distinctly Hispanic names (six were for no driver's license, three public intoxications, two driving on a suspended or revoked license, and one violation of probation). Ok, according to the last census, Bedford County has a Hispanic population of approximately 11.7% ( http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/... ). Yet roughly 37.5% of those arrested on this one given day were of Hispanic origin. I'm not saying that all of them, or any of them, were illegal immigrants, but if 18.75 % of the people arrested were arrested for conveniently not having their driver's license on them, I'm betting that most of them aren't here legally. Granted, the non-Hispanic persons that were arrested were not exactly model citizens either, but the difference is, they are citizens. Again, I'm not saying that all of the Hispanic persons that were listed in the police blotter on that one random day that I happened to look at it, are here illegally. And even though a Hispanic is here illegally, doesn't mean that they are a worse person than some of the citizens that were arrested, but it does mean that they are breaking the law simply by being here. If this county isn't going to be a sanctuary, then something is going to have to be done about the immigration issues here. I know I'm going to catch some flack for this post, but there's a HUGE elephant in the room that everyone's trying to ignore.
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Most of the money they earn and dont pay taxes on does not stay here. They send it back to Mexico to their families. We on the other hand do earn and spend our money here! I dont know of anyone myself thats on meth. I do know that most of the drugs that are here come from other countries. So what does that say about your foreign friends?
It says resident (have an address) and there is no red asterick beside SS# meaning its not required. You only have to prove citizenship to get medical assistance.
Why should my children have to learn Spanish? I didnt move them to Mexico! Seems that you have a problem with working class legal citizens that do pay taxes! In my 20 yrs. of working, paying taxes, and providing for my family I have drawn unemployment for 2 months of my life and never had any assistance from the government. Guess what, I dont do drugs either!
This link sends you to a site that explains that you have to be a legal resident to get food stamps. It also sends you to a form that requires your social security number. So I am not sure what you are referring to. I know that it bothers you that the Mexicans are doing well by working hard while the locals are on disability and meth but that is what happens when a society becomes complacent.
Sorry wrong link above!
https://fabenefits.dhs.tn.gov/vip/website/signupservlet?pagename=homepage
loblert. You are ignorant of the facts!
CITIZENSHIP OR ALIEN STATUS for any person you want medical help for. You must be able to document that they are U.S. citizens or nationals, unless they are already enrolled in Medicare or receive SSI (disability). This requirement is only for medical help. It does not apply to Food Stamp benefits or Families First cash benefits.
Food Stamps and Families First applications do not even require a Social Security number!
http://www.tennessee.gov/humanserv/forms...
Check out Family Assistance!
Your first sentence stated "You could not fathom the collapse that would occur in the American economy if we threw out the 5% of our population that is here illegally." I was simply showing just how well the economy is doing with these fine upstanding pillars of the community within our borders, albeit illegally. If you could not see the correlation between those two topics, then I am sorry for you.
Thom -
I am not clear what the relative trading values of Canadian and U.S. currency has to do with my previous post. Please enlighten me.
Disgusted. You are ignorant of the facts. Please tell me how many illegal immigrants are on food stamps in Tennessee. The answer is none. Illegals can't get food stamps in Tennessee. Get a clue.
Jaxspike. If illegals weren't offered free assistance, they wouldn't get it. Plain and simple. It's like someone handing you $1,000,000 and you saying "NO WAY, I don't want that."
I would be saying, "Well since you offered, I won't refuse."
-- Posted by darrick_04 on Thu, Nov 1, 2007, at 3:27 PM
Darrick, The DHS office is not pulling them in off the streets saying here let me help you! They ARE asking for it every time they pull in the parking lot, walk into the building, and fill out the papers to get assistance. Assistance that someone you probably know that is legally here could use and cant get it!
As for the Wal-Mart comment, you are right, that was mean spirited...and it was meant to be. I have yet to see any large group of children in Wal-Mart running wild and with nobody watching over them except for the Hispanic ones. Common courtesy would dictate that if you're going to bring that many children to a public area, the parents should have some control over them.
Posted by Thom on Fri, Nov 2, 2007, at 3:12 PM
Whatever you do keep an eye on them in the parking lots. They wont even hold their 2, 3, and 4yr. olds by the hand!
They are at Wal-Mart all the time because they are spending their food stamps that we pay for. Take a look in their buggy sometime, they eat a lot better than my family does. But then again we also have to pay for what we eat too!
loblert, where have you been? Can you not see the collapse that is already occurring? The Canadian dollar is actually worth MORE THAN A U.S. Dollar. This hasn't happened since August of 1957 when the Canadian dollar was worth $1.0614 (U.S.), that's fifty years. But let's not kick out the illegals so that we can save our economy.
You could not fathom the collapse that would occur in the American economy if we threw out the 5% of our population that is here illegally. These people work hard labor jobs for low wages and spend what they earn at Wal-Mart. If our goverment and business leaders wanted them gone, they would be gone. But they want them here. Congress and their rich, big-business buddies are just too afraid to admit their support of lax immigration policies in front of the red state electorate who want the Mexicans gone for non-economic (racial) reasons. So big business / government hides from the issue, giving lip service to the problem but secretly doing everything they can to assure that Tyson has chicken hangers and Wal-Mart has shoppers. Despite what your congressman would have you believe this is not a complicated issue. We have essentially invited these people here by offering them jobs and easy entry. We could easily get rid of them if we wanted to. All we would have to do is severely punish busineses and people who hire them. But we don't want to do that do we.
Sorry, but I don't sympathize with businesses who expect people to do hard work for little pay so they can make greater profits. If they can't afford to hire an American citizen and compensate them fairly, then they should change the way they do business or go out of business. That's just my opinion.
Yes I know Americans will do anything as long as we can make a living, but if you find a cleaner job, logically one would choose that one. Very little people last doing "dirty" jobs, unless there is nothing all to make a living. The beautiful thing about America is that we have plenty of jobs. The ones left over, the ones WE don't want to do, can be done by the illegals. I don't hear lately anyone eager to pick vegetables for 5.15 an hour. I wonder who will what to do that all year long?
I don't buy the argument that illegals do jobs that Americans won't do. Who do you think was hanging chickens before the illegals came here? Have you ever seen that television show "Dirty Jobs"? Americans will do the dirtiest jobs you can think of, as long as we can make a living doing it.
First off, I'd like you'll to know that most off the illegals that came here did not come here illegaly just because they wanted too. Don't you think they would rather be here legally than to risk there lives crossing the boarder and breaking the law?
It is just that the flawed system that admits immigrants here is so screwed up that when they weight in their choices, crossing illegaly is their best option. Applying for a legal status takes not only a ridiculous amount of money but time as well. Most applicants spend 3-5 years waiting to get a response on the application alone and 8-10 years to recieve just a legal residence. The one other quick way is to get temporary work visas that end up costing roughly the amount that would be made working in those months.
Most, and notice I said MOST, come here to try to get a better living. Yeah there are some bad apples that completely mess it up for the rest, but they mostly come here to work. And as long as the work is offered, then they will be here. If you want them out of here, STOP offering them work. The problem is they are doing the jobs most of us don't want. One fine example is Tyson. Who wants to be hanging chicken all their life. Sure, when the going gets tough we will do anything. But while I can apply for a cleaner job I'm not hanging chicken.
And those working in factories have income taxes taken away from their checks too and most never reclaim them unless their here legally. The ones getting paid cash still pay sales taxes.
The only problem I see is that it has gotten to a point where there is starting to be too many around that they are having a hard time competing for jobs amongst themselves. Again if the government would regulated the situation better, it could be resolved. They should not impose a cap on legalizing, but rather legalize based on the jobs available in the area. Higher when more jobs, less or no legalizing when jobs low eventually reaching a stable point.
I am afraid lolbert that you yourself are painting a broad generalization of the Latino/Hispanic community that is here. You insinuate that every Hispanic/Latino person that is here is part of some religious nuclear family and that every single one of them is hard working and are all morally upright. I cant tell you how many times I have passed by on a Sunday morning and seen a massive crowd of Hispanics at the soccer fields playing soccer . . . .why aren't they at church like you say they are? I wish we could paint that rosy picture but it isn't true, no matter what race or ethnic group you are speaking about. While there are many that are good individuals, the sheer fact that they came here illegally constitutes a crime in itself. That and the fact that there is definitely a disproportionate amount of offenders in the blotter that are Hispanic or Latino in comparison to their actual population and that has even been stated by the police force here in this county. It is also a know fact that there have been evidence of certain gangs in the area that originated from this same community.
Plus, you disregard those that are arrested with no license or insurance but yet so many times these are the same individuals who become involved in an accident and leave the scene because they caused it and it's the average American citizen who has to foot the bill because the illegal immigrant isn't able to cover the costs. I find it frustrating when I have to obey the law and have a driver's license and carry insurance but yet it seems ok that so many illegal immigrants don't. I work hard for what I have and to have someone like that come along and take it away just because they are here illegally doesn't sound fair to me. They basically abuse the system and people like me have to deal with it in one way or the other.
Mainly though . . . inherently good people follow the law and do what is right. How would you feel if I decided to pack up my things and move into your house without permission? I doubt you would like it that much and the same goes for illegal immigration. Why should my tax dollars go to fund teachers who teach English as a second language or interpreters for the court and police department or higher insurance rates due to illegal immigrants not having insurance due to no driverâ??s license? I don't find that mean spirited at all . . . I find that just fair!
loblert, First of all, they are NOT like me. I am an American citizen. Also, when I've visited foreign countries, I at least attempted to learn some of the language to get by. It would be different if they had come into this country legally and at least put forth the effort to embrace our culture and language, but they don't even bother to try to learn English (which is what the VAST majority of America speaks as a first language). As for the Wal-Mart comment, you are right, that was mean spirited...and it was meant to be. I have yet to see any large group of children in Wal-Mart running wild and with nobody watching over them except for the Hispanic ones. Common courtesy would dictate that if you're going to bring that many children to a public area, the parents should have some control over them. I'm tired of the illegals forcing their way into our country, that has plenty of its own problems right now, and demanding that they get this benefit and right, and that benefit and right. As an illegal immigrant, they have NO rights under the Constitution of The Unites States of America. At least the illegals (I'm just assuming that not all of those Hispanics in Bedford county are here legally) here don't march and protest and fly their flag above the American flag like they do in other parts of the country.
I think that your original post clearly conveyed the impression that Latinos commit more crimes (not factoring in the crime of being here illegally) than non-Latinos.
I also think that your comment about "the ones you see in Wal-Mart that can't speak English and let their brood run wild throughout the store" had nothing to do with the debate on illegal immigration but was just mean spirited.
Let's focus on the debate. If you feel our goverment should round up and deport all illegals - fine. If you think that big busniess should be fined for hiring illegals - fine. But there is no need to pick at and villify and degrade these people. They are just ordinary folks like you and me.
loblert, First off, I never said that all Latinos are criminal. I did say that all ILLEGAL immigrants are criminals...see Websters definition of illegal if you are not in agreement. You are correct, however, in that we could all learn some things about family values from some of the more traditional Hispanic families, just like the more traditional Black and Caucasian families. Don't try to make it sound like all of the Hispanic people are great family people and ardent church goers. Second, simply the location of where you plant your rear every Sunday does not inherently make you a better or worse person. There are many that are turned off by organized religion and prefer to worship privately.
My point is that it is OK for you to insist that your goverment change / enforce the law to end illegal immigration but that it is wrong for you to imply that Latinos are criminals or that they are ill-mannered at Wal-Mart. I think that it is great that Latinos take the whole family to Wal-Mart when they go. That is what is wrong with our country. Family and church have been cast aside in favor of "fiances", deadbeat dads, and football sunday.
It is fine to try to end the illegal immigration problem. But Latinos stay with their families and go to church and stay married and work hard at jobs. We should learn something from them while they are here. If we do, maybe we can improve ourselves rather than beat down others.
Sorry about that folks, I just typed "I don't think there's nothing wrong with that" I meant that I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
loblert, I wouldn't just assume that because someone dislikes people invading OUR country that they hate them. I certainly agree that Washington and big business are to blame for the illegal immigration issues that we face today. What I was referring to by the statistics I mentioned was that there ARE more illegals here than the "census" claims, not that they commit more crimes. Also, just because someone isn't arrested for not having their driver's license on them, doesn't mean that they are here legally. If there's an illegal walking down the road stumbling drunk (personally I don't think there's nothing wrong with that, I've done it myself at times), the police wouldn't be able to charge them with driving without a driver's license...but they could be charged with public intoxication. I wouldn't mind them being here if they had come into OUR country legally, pay taxes, and understand that if they're causing problems, they're going to be deported. The majority of Hispanics that I've personally met are good people. The ones you see in Wal-Mart that can't speak English and let their brood run wild throughout the store (I think I spend too much time at Wal-Mart) and have no interest whatsoever in becoming legal residents of OUR country are the best that I've seen in Bedford county so far. Them simply BEING in this country is a crime. I do NOT fault them for trying to provide for their families. I DO fault them for doing so ILLEGALLY.
loblert, I agree 100%
Mr. Williamson -
Your argument seems to be that we should do something about illegal immigration because Latinos are more criminally active than non-Latinos. In support of your argument, you state that Latinos comprise 11% of Bedford County's population but constituted 37% of last week's arrests. However, using your own statistics, 50% of the Latinos arrested last week were arrested simply because they were illegal (no driver's license exhibited) - not because they had committed some other crime. Therefore, if you exclude these arrests, and acknowlege that according the the Shelbyville City Manager's office, the actual Latino population in Bedford County is much higher than the 11% officially registered, it is clear that Latinos commit crimes roughly in purportion with their population.
So if they are not all criminals, what is the real reason behind Bedford County's hatred of Latinos? I don't think it is primarily a racism issue or a issue of a principled stance on public policy. Instead, in most cases, I believe it is simple, un-Christian jealousy. Specifically, the sudden presence of numerous hard-working, family-oriented church-going Latinos embarasses many middle-aged and older white locals whose own sons and grandsons are deadbeats who can't hold a job for more than six weeks, who move from "fiance" to "fiance" without ever getting properly married, who don't support their children and whose main source of income is not work but is instead disability payouts or other forms of easy money and government handouts. Just ask the good people at rent-a-center who they would rather rent furniture to (based on race only) - a low income white or a low income Latino. I think that the answer may surprise you.
We have an illegal immigration problem. It should be fixed. Washington politicians should be ashamed that it has not been fixed. We should be ashamed that we have let them go this long without fixing it. But there is no need to villify an entire group of people in the process. They are here because big business wants them here and Washington backs big business.
Supply will always rise to meet demand. Therefore, there is only one way to stop illegal immigration and that is to punish the businesses that hire the illegals. Until that happens, we should welcome our new neighbors as Jesus would have wanted us to.
Jaxspike. If illegals weren't offered free assistance, they wouldn't get it. Plain and simple. It's like someone handing you $1,000,000 and you saying "NO WAY, I don't want that."
I would be saying, "Well since you offered, I won't refuse."
"I think it would benefit everyone for the illegals to have driver's license..."
There's just one problem with this, titansfan.
It's called the Motor Voter Act
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/voting/nvra/act...
Also see:
http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/00716...
I think it would benefit everyone for the illegals to have driver's license and be required to have insurance to drive just like we do. They are driving anyway, with no license and no insurance and making our insurance go up, so why not put some responsiblility thier way???
No, the illegal immigrants just demand the same rights and privileges as American citizens which they didn't earn (aka entering legally). So yes, they are asking for something for free. They also give birth to children here at the hospital but yet never pay for their hospital stay which costs the average citizen more in the long run. Also, when they are involved in a car accident and have no coverage then it's the average citizen who has to foot the bill again.
It seems like they are getting a few free things in life by exerting themselves here. We aren't just handing it to them.
No, the illegal immigrants just demand the same rights and privileges as American citizens which they didnâ??t earn (aka entering legally). So yes, they are asking for something for free. They also give birth to children here at the hospital but yet never pay for their hospital stay which costs the average citizen more in the long run. Also, when they are involved in a car accident and have no coverage then itâ??s the average citizen who has to foot the bill again.
It seems like they are getting a few free things in life by exerting themselves here. We arenâ??t just handing it to them.
Illegals don't demand free anything, but if you give it to them, they'll certainly not refuse it. This has been mentioned on other blogs before. The Indians didn't give the Anglo's free healthcare, instead they stole their country from them. Big difference.
One of the main differences in the "new" illegal immigrants and the settlers of our nation is the fact that at that point in time there were no laws in effect barring the settlers from coming over here. Also, they had no intention of coming over here to live off of the resources of the Indians. They came over here to build everything anew. I'm betting that NONE of the settlers went to an Indian emergency room and didn't pay for the services. Ok, that was a joke, but you can't seriously equate the two. Also, I noticed that the Sheriff said that the Hispanics use different names each time they're arrested and don't intend to...how's that not intentional? I don't care how many names you have or what country you're from, if you give different names each time you're arrested, that's intentional.
A simplistic explanation would be that a few of the recent immigrants weren't model citizens in their own country or they wouldn't be here.
Perhaps some of the same stresses that brought them to the U.S. (poverty,youth,ambition,oppression,frustration,etc.) still way heavily on them only now they have additional burdens from language barriers,cultural differences,bigotry and loneliness.
They may be experiencing some of the same traumas that Anglos had when Europe unloaded some of its restless types.
(Or when their predecessors crossed the Bering Strait.)
I doubt that many of those early emigres' were invited over or entered with a visa.
Nor did they come here fluent in an 'official' language of their new home.
They did come here with a hunger to rid themselves of their old problems and make a better life in a New World.
Did they ever get drunk,have domestic disturbances or otherwise act irresponsibly?
Probably.
They might have a new place to live but they were the same people they were before.
But many got past their troubles old and new and made their dreams a reality.
We should not be surprised that these strangers in a strange land have their share of misfits and ne'er -do-wells.
Pioneers have seldom been known for 'appropriate' behavior.
But if some are guilty of destructive actions,all have taken the risk of leaving behind the familiar to achieve a better future.
Is that any worse coming from them than it was for our forbears?
Does the 'acting out' we see from a fraction of our new neighbors make them less able to progress than the homegrown people who do the same things out of the same sort of emptiness?
Thom, go to Wal-Mart on Sunday. Sometimes you wonder if you are in the same country and the same with the local park.
I would certainly be willing to take a day off of work so that I can attend this meeting (if it's public). Heck, I'd even be willing to donate to a fund to help supplement the funding to implement this...as long as it is used SOLELY for that purpose.
Ok, if funding is an issue, and we need this program due to the number of illegal aliens in school and utilizing public resources, wouldn't one take care of the other? I would certainly think that once the BCSD started cracking down on the illegals, they would slowly begin to leave on their own. Or get arrested and be forced to leave. As far as them saying that they're only going to arrest them if they "commit a crime", isn't fraudulently entering this country a crime? I would think that any of them on sovereign U.S. soil would constitute criminal trespass...at least. There's a crime. Unfortunately, we're unable to deport the citizens that commit more heinous crimes than the illegals, but they are citizens and should be dealt with accordingly. It's almost gotten to the point where Wal-Mart will have to have a "Spanish speaking only" line for their checkouts. That means that those that speak English will only have one register to checkout on since they only ever have two registers open out of the twenty-three or so they have.
The program will pay for itself here in the county by reducing the number of repeat offenders, illegals that go to the ER and get admitted to the hospital and those that are convicted of crimes and are housed in BC jail.
Brian or anyone at the paper please keep citizens informed on when this will come before the county commission, so we can voice our concerns and approval for the expenses of this program.
William
Actually, they are still moving forward with the process, but law enforcement officials are concerned that funding for the program will be a sticking point. I do not believe it has not come before the county commission yet. They will make the final determination if this gets funded.
http://www.t-g.com/story/1281262.html
The last time I read, the 287g program was put on hold due to funding . . . the local officials can not do anything until they get the funding to carry out the program.
As far as the blotter, my friends and I have been noticing the trend of the percentage of Hispanic violators compared to everyone else. It definitely makes you wonder . . . .