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Students modeled Standardized School Attire-compliant clothing during a public forum Thursday evening at Harris Middle School. (T-G Photo by John I. Carney) |
The first of several planned public forums on the issue of Standardized School Attire brought out strong opinions on both sides.
School board members also indicated that they might be willing to soften some portions of the current draft proposal, such as allowing young children to wear blue jeans, since they stand up better to playground abuse.
The forum was held Thursday night at Liberty School, prior to the regular monthly meeting of Bedford County Board of Education. Additional forums will be held at Cascade in December, Community in January and Harris Middle School in February.
The first half of the public comment period Thursday night was dominated by opponents of SSA, so much so that when Eric Hart stood to speak, he identified himself as a lone voice in support of the program. But he wasn't; his remarks seemed to open the door for others, so that the second half of the forum was dominated by SSA supporters.
But the divisions remain deep, and it didn't seem as if many minds were changed in either direction on Thursday night.
More than a dress code, less than a uniform, SSA eliminates T-shirts and blue jeans in favor of collared shirts and khakis. Local school board officials published a draft policy last month as a basis for discussion, with the intent of casting a final vote on SSA in February so that it could be adopted in the 2008-2009 school year.
Many of the critics of SSA said the school board should do more about enforcing the current dress code rather than adopting new requirements.
"I don't see it being enforced," said one parent, drawing applause from the crowd.
School Superintendent Ed Gray said that enforcing the current dress codes (each school sets its own) would be extremely time-consuming and leave teachers with less time to actually teach.
But wouldn't a stricter dress code be even harder to enforce?
No, said school board Chairman Barry Cooper. Because SSA is based on a short list of items that can be worn, instead of a long list of items that can't be worn, Cooper claimed it would be much simpler to enforce. Negatively-worded dress codes have to be constantly revised and updated to address new styles that weren't even thought of a few months earlier, he said, while SSA, because it's so limited, is much more stable.
Some parents agreed with the basic principle but wondered why blue jeans couldn't be made acceptable. Cooper said that he's leaning towards allowing jeans for children in younger grades, since they're out on the playground in their school clothes. But he said one of the purposes of SSA is to "level the playing field" between students of different socio-economic groups, and eliminating expensive designer jeans is part of that.
But some parents don't like the cookie-cutter approach.
"I think children and adults tend to perform better when they're comfortable," said one parent. "We're not all khaki and polo shirt people."
Robert Holtz is the father of some of the children who modeled SSA-compliant clothing during Thursday's forum. But he said he doesn't favor the color restrictions and thinks the proposal needs to be revised.
"I think the colors, the restrictions, are way too tight," said Holtz.
One of the supposed benefits of SSA and its color restrictions is that it discourages the use of color as a gang symbol and recruitment tool. Hart said he moved here from a small town in West Tennessee which considered SSA five years ago. It was turned down, and Hart said that when gangs moved into the area, they did so quickly.
"You don't have that problem now, but they're going to come," he said. Another speaker said gangs are already here, citing graffiti at the pencil plant where she works.
Another objection was over the fact that exceptions would be made for those whose religion requires a particular style of dress. One commenter said that since organized prayer has been banned from the school, it's unfair to make accomodations for those of other faiths.
One of the field trips local school board members made when researching SSA was to Glencliff High School in Nashville; Metro Nashville schools have adopted SSA beginning with this school year. But one parent noted having seen a TV report on SSA and noticing a child at Glencliff wearing saggy pants, one of the situations SSA is supposed to prevent. Critics also noted a recent incident in which a child took a gun to Glencliff as evidence that SSA doesn't create security.
Several parents complained about the restrictions on wearing outerwear to class, saying that some students get cold and would want to keep their jackets on.
Some parents complained about the expense of buying SSA-compliant clothing. One woman said her daughter would be a senior next year, and it made little sense to buy her a new wardrobe just for one school year.
But Katherine Cook said buying a few pairs of khaki pants and a few polo shirts would be a boon to parents compared to the designer clothing some teens wear.
"It would be cheaper to me," agreed Katrina Carlton, a mother of five. "It would be easier to do laundry."
"You will clothe your child cheaper than you will now," she said.
Two young women who identified themselves as Central High School students spoke in favor of the proposal. Chelsea Freeman said she "gets disgusted going through the hallways" at some of the clothing worn by her classmates. She also said that teasing over a student's appearance can trigger violence. She said she believes SSA would improve student attitudes.
"Most kids pick on kids for what they wear," said Emily Cook, a sophomore.
Substitute teacher Kathy Miller said SSA is necessary because of parental negligence.
"We as parents have dropped the ball," she said, citing low-cut shirts and low-riding jeans which students wear to school. "Our education is suffering."
School board member Glenn Forsee said he's spoken to a manager at Wal-Mart, who said the store could have sufficient quantities of SSA-compliant clothes in stock with four months' notice.
"That's very doable," said Forsee.
Gray noted that some Murfreesboro stores have displays of SSA-compliant clothing even though Rutherford County hasn't adopted SSA. Gray said that stores from Goodwill to J.C. Penney stock compliant clothing.
Some parents complained that compliant clothing might not be readily available in all sizes.
At the end of the forum, a row of students wearing SSA-compliant clothes was brought onto the stage to portray how SSA would look and show that there are a variety of possible styles even within the restrictions of SSA.
But some SSA opponents noted that one of the students participating in the demonstration had his shirt untucked, and another was wearing a shirt that just barely met the top of her pants, and therefore couldn't be tucked in. The opponents no doubt felt they were pointing out the absurdity of SSA, while supporters complained that the way in which that objection was delivered embarrassed those individual students in front of a crowd. It was an emotional end to what had been a spirited discussion.
The next scheduled forum will be Dec. 20 at Cascade, followed by Jan. 17, 2008, at Community and Feb. 11 at Harris, although the Harris date is listed as being tentative. The board plans to take an up-or-down vote on SSA at its Feb. 21 regular meeting.
klahr123
I wish you would contact our board and superintendent. I think they might consider backing down if they thought the system would be taken to court. I really think that the only parents who are aware of this proposal are the ones who already dress their kids in khakis and polos.
To TENNESSEE LADY 316---where did you get the idea that MOST parents buy $80 designer jeans?? THis kind of FALSE info is the reason that these absured unis are being adopted all over the country. The parents I have worked with in TWENTY states JUST want to send their girls in simple dresses and their boys in CHEAP, properly-fitted TRADITIONAL tee shirts and jeans; some of them even buy the latter at thrift or used-clothes stores. One dress code case that went to court in Phoenix (and cost the district 300K before it lost) involved a ONE DOLLAR USED Michael Jordan tee shirt wherein the objection was a QUARTER-sized almost-invisible Chicago Bulls logo on it that supposedly made the shirt "gang related" and endangered the kid's life!!! Doesn't ANYONE here see the absurdity of all this.
And as for vic37160, any parent & kid is of COURSE free to werar a uniform anytime they want---including all 180 days of the school year. What is objected to is using GOVERNMENT FORCE to make OTHER parents & kids do the same, especially when they are already wearing APPROPRIATE non-uni clothes.
klahr123
Maybe I am missing your point...but most of the post on here are against the SSA program.
Doesn't or shouldn't matter what your reason is to be against it..we are on the same side of the fence.
I am still AMAZED at most of these posts. You guys still don't "get" it. We do NOT need a detailed pct system for determining "appropriate" clothes. 90 pct of schools in this country---including the ones on the Phx High Schools where I was on the Bd for 8 years---just observe a "regular" dress code. Reasonable discretion is used and no one sues or screams if they are made to change. Unlike YOUR foolish district, we do NOT worry about styles or colors---only vulgarities and indecencies. They are NOT so hard to determine. And unlike tank & halter tops, tee shirts & jeans WELL cover the body, so there is no POSSIBLE justification for this nationwide effort by the radical uniformers to ban such TRADITIONAL, conservative school-kid clothes. We wore such clothes 50 years ago in the Eisenhower 50's and NO ONE thought they should be banned; why NOW? because of 9/11 or Islamists or gangs? Talk about NO COMMON SENSE.
I just do NOT understand why sincere, serious people like your school bd and N ashville's WASTE time even CONSIDERING banning conservative, appropriate kid clothes like multi-colored tees and properly-fitted jeans.
WILL SOMEONE OUT THERE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME---I only had SIX years of college with a near-straight_ A average so I guess I am TOO DUMB to understand all this "new age" school-clothing nonsense!!
Dianatn, clarabelle, and amori_da_viaggiare
Thank you for your comments.
The intent of my message is to comment on the pro and con opinions toward the dress code and the difficulty the school system may have enforcing the dress code.
I hope that I have demonstrated the extreme case of a DEFENDABLE DRESS CODE. The school board has the other extreme. Their proposed code is enforced by the opinion of the school system employees. Much more time and money will be spent making the school system employees judge the dress code. If they had a defendable dress code, there would be fewer discussions with parents and students. School system employees should not nick pick everyone's attire. How many people receive a speeding ticket for 1mph over the speed limit? Use a defendable dress code in gross violations.
Let the students push the envelope of the dress code. Pushing the envelope is one of the corner stones of our country. I know about the giving an inch taking a mile story. That is why I said push instead of break.
The most frustrating part of my high school environment was my perceived inconsistencies in school codes.
Let the students know exactly what they can wear and/or not wear. It is all about the students!
Analogy situation: If the highway's speed limit signs stated 'not too fast" and police officers were not allowed to use any means of measuring speed, the courts would be full. Everybody has an opinion.
If you are against the current dress code policy, maybe you should dress in a ridicules manner but still inside the dress code policy. Maybe leather pants, blue dress shirt with bozo buttons with an 1/8" wide collar and two different color high top shoes. However, that may be just as extreme as the percentage-based system.
I purposely do not use the SSA acronym. Most people have very strong feelings toward it.
Would your opinion change toward my comments if you knew which "side" I was?
There should be some tweaking to the policy. Let us BECOME a beacon for dress codes everywhere. Let us think it through. We have until February to help the school board.
Clarabelle, you receive an A.
Thank you again for your time.
thinking_outloud,
If you were trying to point out absurdities in enforcing dress code, I believe you hit one out of the park with that post.
The day I am measuring body parts and figuring the percentage at which a neckline is too low, is the day I will be looking to exit the teaching field. That is beyond ridiculous!
I'm not sure either what thinking out loud means either, but it does show that more research needs to be done on both sides and more parental involvement needs to be encouraged--possibly through a survey rather than public meetings. I'm afraid that many parents who have not been informed of this proposal will be in for a shock after Feb. Not everyone reads the paper.
thinking_outloud with all due respect I have read your comments now about 3 times and still not really sure if you are for SSA or against it..not that it really matters one way or the other. About the biggest thing I got from your post was that it actually shows to what extent these rules will be taken and the actual classroon time that will be wasted trying to enforce these rules.
This message is in regards to the November15, 2007 public forum meeting at Liberty school. The school board supplied handouts about the proposed dress code. A few people stated their arguments for and against the dress code. Others complained. The school board handled the situation well. The following paragraphs reiterate some comments made at the meeting and some possible solutions and questions.
The school board explained that the dress code would prevent future fashions from dodging the dress code. The school board wants to prevent exposed mid-drift and chest and inappropriate, rude and dangerous attire. The school system employees judge the students adherence to the existing dress code now. A generic dress code that ties back to a standard has less chance of anyone dodging the dress code and anyone accused of favoritism. Use a percentage rule for clothing size. If the garment's neckline perimeter is within a given percentage the individual's neck size, then that part of the dress code is satisfied. For example, if the rule is 50% and the individual's neck size is 16" than the garment's perimeter is no more than 24". This could work on arms, legs, and mid drift. This creates a situation that the student can test at home and defend in school.
A test for a possible mid drift violation could be to have the student lift their hands over their head and/or pick a book off the ground. If any mid drift skin shows, they would be in violation. When the arms are up, the upper perimeter of the lower garment should be in view. Obesity is a possible exception to the dress code. A vague exception to any policy opens the door to interpretation. If obesity is an exception for tucking in the shirt, tie it back to a definition by the medical industry. This goes back to the student knowing what to wear and being able to defend it. A tucked long undershirt may be required for those that are able to have shirts not tucked.
To make the dress code easily enforceable, do not let the employees of the school system make a judgment call. It needs to be tied to a well-defined standard. Dress code based off percentages of the body measurements and independent third party definitions may be a good base for a dress code.
Be careful about the skirt length based off the fingertips. If some long-bodied or wide-bodied individuals use that rule, there would be more showing than wanted. Measurement from the knee may be more appropriate.
Be careful about the plus and minus one size for clothing. A standard may need to be set. Yes, you guessed it. Maybe a percentage based system. A future fashion may be parachute dress pants. Batwing polo shirts may the latest craze, where the armpit of shirts tucks into the pants. Blazers may have lapels large enough to hide a howitzer. You laugh, but most of you went though the 60's, 70's and 80's.
Some fear that the dress code would impede the student's ability to express. With the three colors of lower garments and the six colors for the upper garments, there are hundreds of combinations. Add auxiliary upper garments, shoes, socks, and jewelry, the combinations are in the tens of thousand. Granted some of the combinations may not match. The following is a small list of how to express yourself: mannerism, attitude, stature, vocabulary, body language, hairstyle, makeup, jewelry, physical fitness, mental fitness, morals, ethics, shoes, interaction, clubs, art, band, and writing. The proposed dress code limits but not stops the student's ability to show their social economic status. I mean their parent's social economic status.
The proposed dress code states the upper garments need to have a solid color and a collar. Is this to help unify the student body and curb gang activity? Does garment color signify gang loyalty? I suspect there are hundreds of gangs. We need to make sure we do not pick a gang color. Limiting the amount of solid colors may help with appearance of the school. Do the collars curb gang activity? I suspect that chest pockets are acceptable. What are the allowable color shade deviations? I am not good at identifying different color shades. One person's navy blue is another's medium blue. A color may need to be tied to set of paint swatches or pantones. Swatches are free at many retailers.
Is a gang a potentially violent 'click'?
The proposed dress code does not allow mid thigh pockets on the lower garments. Tie this rule to a well-defined standard. The same garment may hang differently on other people. Percentage of leg length might work.
Some people think they might have a problem affording and having the availability to the new dress code attire. Between charities, churches, and the school system, everyone should be able to have the garments. If a store manger does not take advantage of this known economic spurt, they may need to find another job. There should not be a shortage of clothes. The more children in a family, the cheaper the proposed dress code is.
Some people did not like the idea of an exception to religiously dictated garments. They claimed that their ability to pray was taken out of school but school board allows other religions in the school. A dictated time for a religious act is not allowed in school. The student can still pray in school. For example, the student can pray quietly before they eat their meal. You are able to wear religious emblems by the new dress code. Let us be thankful for everyone's religious freedoms.
Prohibiting cold weather coats has many concerned. The school board is asking that large coats not be worn in the school. I suspect they can be carried into the school. The schools are usually warm enough that a large coat is not needed. They are not trying to prohibit the use of large coats while traveling to the school. There needs to be a standard tied to what is allowed. Is their an issue with the thickness or over sizing of the auxiliary upper garments? We may need to create a standard based off the percentage of the student's size. Measure the auxiliary upper garment in a free state not pressed against the body. If there is a questionable auxiliary upper garment, measure the students arm with shirt(s) and allow to a certain percentage over. Measure the auxiliary upper garment with a loose measuring tape but in contact with the auxiliary upper garment. Do not make the school employees make a judgment call on this. Just a side note, layered clothes are warmer and more adaptable then one large garment.
More students may tolerate the dress code if they had a part in it. For example, students may measure and compare proposed attire to the size of the student. Students could vote on the extra colors. They would practice measuring, data collection, arithmetic, and maybe statistics and algebra. The student's results may be a valuable resource for the school board to have before they decide on a dress code.
The school board has good intention as always. They may need to review the specific problems they are trying to solve. Make sure the solutions could have the possibility to solve the problems. Make sure you can measure the solution and document violations. Do not make the employees of the school system make a judgment call. Make sure the solution has an easy test for the student. School system employees may be more inclined to enforce a dress code that has defendable definitions rather than a judgment call. Some people might be frightened to make a judgment call on a potential gang member's attire.
The intent of this message is not to have the tape-measure police at the school's front door. If someone is in extreme violation of the policy, make sure the school system can defend it to a standard. If you tie the dress code to a well-defined standard and third party definitions, you may have fewer policy debates with students and parents. The percentage concept may not be the best idea. It may be a starting point for discussing defendable dress code compliance.
If the dress code passes, you might find it easier to support it. Do your best with the situation you have. Do not be pessimistic. It does not work anyway. If you do not agree with the school board, you have the choice to vote in another group next time. Be thankful for our republic technique of government.
I enjoyed attending the November 15, 2007 Liberty school public forum and reading the article and comments about it.
Thank you for your time.
Gee...I'll bet if this was put to public vote, voter turn out would be at an all time high.
That's a shame. Do all parents know who their school board member is from their district? They should.
http://www.bedfordk12tn.com/board.html
If you're not sure in which district you are located, check your voter registration card. "School district" and "county district" should be the same number, and that's the number you're looking for.
Chef Boy R.D.: Amen.
When I went to school in the 60's, I got wacked
for not having my shirt tucked in. I don't believe in a Hitler's Youth movement dress, but some of the dress I see on the street @ schools, my old teachers would use more extreme
punishments than a wacking. I guess that's why God doesn't let humans live to be 150 years old.
If you are going to be told what to wear to school now, what will you be forced to do later? Regulation haircuts, colors? What about jewelry? This is only another example of government incursion in everyday life. I beleive one of our presidential candidates mentioned a village to raise a child. Soon the government will do it for you! This does not address the root of the problem. Some(not all!) parents today are either too stupid or lazy to moniter what the children wear. If decency was in the home, you would not need an agency to instruct you on how to dress when you left it.
ANY kind of tan sends such a healthy message to young girls how?
I had a teacher back in the 70's with the best tan. All of her girl students, me included, baked and burnt after school and on spring weekends. I'll never forget this teacher crying her eyes out admitting it was Q-T. She was so sorry we were hurting ourselves trying to copy her.
Not so now. But back to the clothes issue. The staff at this school is SO afraid to say anything to the rich folks who are breaking the rules, they have to have "blanket" rules so as not to offend.
Its all just so silly.
Well, I have 3 children in school and I am torn about the SSA. I agree with certain aspects of it, but I do agree that it will not make all children equal. The ones that can afford the expensive clothes now are going to still get them and they will still look down thier noses at the children who's clothes came from Wal Mart (like mine) or Goodwill. I have tried to raise my children to treat all people the same, no matter skin color, money, education, anything. They mostly just laugh at all those people that think they are so much better than everyone else. They are successful in school, sports, and have made some really good friends on all social levels. We, as parents, need to not make it such a big deal about the brands other kids wear and how much they cost. Children practice what they are taught, so if they learn that they are better than everyone else, that is what they believe and when they grow up and reality hits them it will be a cruel wake up! I think that if our children are required to wear standard clothing so should the teachers. It is only fair. I also think just like the office that I work in they should be allowed to have a break and at least do casual Fridays with jeans, t shirts, etc...
Not sure why you would care if someone had a fake tan or not...nor do I know why you would care that anyone has money to buy expensive clothes for themselves or their children. If the little girl in question is wearing expensive clothing now I can assure you she will continue to wear expensive clothing even if the SSA is approved (all Name Brand stores carry SSA approved clothes).
If she is a mean little snob now she will be a mean little snob in Standard School Attire. Nothing will be any more level than it is now...her family will still have money, they will flaunt their money, there will still be middle class families who struggle to keep up with the rich, there will still be the less fortunate children who have nothing.
Yes, I do ammori...da, I think it would take alot of the wind out of her sails and "lower" her to a level playing field. Some other children it would bring them up a level.
I do see both side of this. I am not in favor of creating a new dept at the school board run by someones family member no doubt, to enforce this.
I'd rather see my tax dollars spent on more arts and music for the kids to express themselves. Not a clothing police.
The kids that don't adhere probably don't want to be there in the first place. They more than likely wouldn't care what trouble they got in. Parents may not either. Its just clothes for crying out loud.
I don't see anything wrong with jeans and a decent shirt. Why can't they simply inforce that right now?
Since I have young boys, and one not in school yet, I'm just not as upset about it as parents of teens, so ya'll keep hashing it out and maybe it won't pass.
Who cares if a teacher has fake tan she "sports" year round? And do you honestly think making all the kids wear khakis and polos will change this one little girl's actions? No - she'll find something else to be snobbish about, whether it be shoes, jewelry, or a haircut.
Wake up school board - standardized school attire will NOT prevent gangs - they will find alternate ways of expressing themselves and they will be harder to identify.
Standardized school attire will not eliminate the difference between "haves" and the "have-nots." Kids are smart enough to know which logos come from American Eagle and Tommy Hilfiger (and the like).
Standardized school attire will not raise test scores. In fact, a 1998 study of 10th graders completed by the Journal of Educational Research found that there was a 3 point drop in test scores when students were forced to wear uniforms. ( http://www.nashvillescene.com/Stories/Ne... )
The newest studies (Baltimore, Denver, and Aldine, Texas, a suburban Houston district) touting the outstanding results of adopting the new standarized dress policy were funded/sponsored by French Toast, a leading manufacter of school uniform attire (khakis and polos).
http://syndicate.missouri.edu/media/show...
(this is the video)
http://syndicate.missouri.edu/articles/s... (this is the print version)
I found it to be quite laughable that Barry Cooper was speaking about eliminating the differences between the "haves" and the "have-nots." His suit probably costs more than I make in a month.
I believe it was Mr. Gray that pointed out that this dress code would be easier to enforce because there was less leeway in items the students could wear. I am assuming we are modeling our dress code on Nashville's dress code. If it's so easy, why did Metro Nashville feel the need to publish a 4 page full color brochure to send home with all their students to tell parents what was acceptable and what was not? ( http://www.mnps.org/AssetFactory.aspx?di... ) It seems a little nitpicky to me.
According to the Tennessean, within the first month of school Metro Nashville schools had suspended (in-school) over 2,400 students and had issued 250 out of school suspensions due to repeated dress code violations. What a waste of teaching time!
I've done my research. Where is the research from the school board? I want the proof that this is a worthwhile endeavor for our students. Everything I find points to no. I don't see the benefits. Enforce the current dress code and punish those who don't follow it.
I think one of the high school students wearing the standard attire (the young lady in the white shirt) put it best when she said, "Students get suspended for breaking the dress code and then come back to school wearing the same thing because they don't care." What a statement and how true -- I don't think khakis and polos are going to make them care any more than they do now.
Sorry this was so long...I've been stewing on it for a while.
Have wonderful day everyone.
klahr123, Respectfully, my point is that I'm trying to get people to quit focusing so much on the dress code itself, and start asking theirselves "why there is a need for it?" Once you have asked that question, then you will start to understand that this is not a dress code issue, but that of a parenting one. Why is it that the parents/students that have the problems are not the ones being dealt with on a one-on-one basis, instead of punishing all for the sake of a few. I am trying to get you and everyone else on the same page. No matter what side of the issue you stand on, if you are concerned enough to debate it, then you and your children are not the problem. The parents that I was pointing out will continue to do or say nothing. That's my point! That is what the board of education needs to be looking at and answer us, as concerned parents, why are they not dealing with the real issues, rather than disquising it with a dress code. Changing a person's clothing will not change who they are!!!!!
I know that Dianatn, but apparently this teacher doesn't and many parents also.
If the parents knew how to dress, maybe the kids would know better.
We can't all be celebrities, but this particular teacher, actually, "used" to be, and, she wants everyone to know it and to know her children. Well, they do, but not in a good way.
I really don't have a dog in this fight, but maybe the comissioners and school board should set an example and do this first, or is this another "do as I say, not as I do".
countrymom-
There are kids like that everywhere and also adults. You have to learn to get past their petty life styles and it is best if you come in contact with that sort of person through your childhood years than to be thrown into the "real" world thinking everyone was the same. Getting along with different types of people and their way of life is one of the important learning experiences school should offer these young people. Trying to take the conflict out of school does not teach a child how to deal with people who live for conflict.
That is a good point Dr. Phil...,
in fact, in a rural school in this county, there is a girl student who keeps her class-mates nerves tore up over "fashion" and how they aren't worthy/rich enough to be friends with her. This is in the third grade folks!
This student's mother IS a teacher, who wears very low pants but thankfully tucks in her shirt. She also sports a very fake looking year round tan.
Unfortunatly, somehow, this teacher/parent is a role model to many, high-school and elementary.
The staff doesn't know exactly how to handle this situation. Many parents have graced the office of this school on behalf of this spoiled brat but its not improved.
Maybe this isn't the only case and the only way they know how to handle it because correction of the parents don't work.
This teachers' father, and the students grand-father, is, interestingly, a preacher, by the way.
Dr, Philbilly misses the point, although he is correct. The POINT is that we DON'T do GROUP PUNISHMENT in this country; Yes, there ARE some bad parents who allow their kids to wear inappropriate clothes to school. But the solution is NEVER to punish everyone based on that; you punish the BAD kids wearing BAD clothes and leave alone those choosing LEGIT clothes like multi-colored tees and properly-fitted denim jeans. WHY is THAT solution SOOO hard for the Board and many of the posters to understand???
If you are even debating, in favor or against the dress code, chances are your kid is not part of the problem. I have yet to hear from any parent defending their child and giving reasons why they think it's a good idea for their child to wear pants three sizes to big, or why they think its fashionable for their 12 year old daughter to show off her thong and new belly button ring. Where are the parents who want their kids to wear gang affiliated clothes? Lets hear your side! We know your out there. Come on, don't remain silent, explain to everyone why. Every time your child breaks the rules, good kids pay the price. Let us know why its our responsibility to change our kids because your kids want to express values and outlooks on life you have graciously bestowed on them. I think you have every right to explain yourself because hey, this is America, the home of the free, the land of the brave, and where schools can be used as a dumping ground for parents like you, who just don't care. We want to hear from you, because, frankly, you are the reason this is an issue.
I think if the paper is going to cover this properly, they should print some of the results from the study that Dianatn gave the link for. I agree with ndetroit. The school board is pushing only the side of the story that they want parents to hear. I think they just want everyone to dress the same as their kids.
When a child is missing what is one of the tools they use to describe him? You will always hear them say He/She was last wearing.......jeans, white t-shirt and green jacket (or whatever he was wearing last) If God Forbid your child is abducted will he/she be wearing the same thing every other child in Shelbyville is wearing.
When they were searching for the London Bomber how was he described? He was wearing a "I Love NY" sweat-shirt.
Follow this scenario if you will indulge me for a moment.
Your child is at school, he is at his locker, he sees a student he does not know take something that appears to be a gun from a locker that he knows does not belong to that student.
Your child goes to the office and is ask to describe this student, your child says "Well he was blonde, about my height and wearing Khaki pants and a blue polo"
In a sea of blondes wearing Khaki pants and blue polos that really narrows it down, don't it?
If it is so positive then why don't the teachers wear them as well. Because it would violate their rights? You bet!
As a Nashvillean, I think everyone in Shelbyville should understand that if anyone mentions MNPS as a success story regarding SSA, you know either that person is a liar or is ignorant. To maintain the fiction of success regarding SSA, MNPS has devoted huge PR resources--at the expense of genuine communication. MNPS would love Shelbyville to be lured into the same mistake, because that would then become more evidence of their own success. Some schools benefit from SSA (not academically or in terms of behavior, but in terms of perception), and others do not. High schools have reduced test scores; most schools see reduced parental involvement (which many SSA schools regard as a good thing, sadly). If your community cares about its kids, it will proceed with SSA only on a school-by-school basis, only where you have strong community support, and a generous opt-out program. If you do it that way, you will be in compliance with state guidelines as well as following the recommendations of experts. If you do it wholesale, you'll just be trying to become Nashville, which was itself trying to become Memphis. Why not aim higher? I wish we had.
THE SCHOOL BD SHOULD LISTEN TO The opponen ts. The key is INDEED enforcement. Enforcing uni codes has been a nightmare throughout the country---but most schools find that enforcing a combo of a REASONABLE "regular" dress code and stiff penalties under an anti-bullying code is a much better win-win decision that going to unis/SSA.
Some of the posters herein just don't "get" it as the kids say. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with T-shirts and jeans in public schools; they have been worn there for 50-100 years nationwide w/o problems. I don't know why some posters assume that if jeans are allowed that super-expensive ones will be the rule; only a few do that---and Hand-tailored or name-brand khakis (and polos for that matter) can ALSO be bought and worn. Further, khaki & other uni pants can be bought & worn just as oversized (and thus droopy) as jeans can. Does ANYONE disagree with THAT???
The only thing more absured than banning jeans is banning striped T-shirts and other non-polo tops. Polos are very nice shirts---but hardly ESSENTIAL for daily learning in a public school. Most kids I know---mainly older ones---have both kinds of tops and mix/vary them; but your district would BAN the tee style for NO APPARENT REASON. (Do you claim all neckbanded (ie. tee) shirts are "gang related" or what?---ABSURD@!!!)
Finally, note that it has been reported that our Pres. candidate and former Sen. Thompson campaigned in JEANS when he first ran for the Senate---and Wikipedia shows Sen. Alexander (also a former Gov. & Pres. candidate) wearing plaid shirts which would violate the one-solid-color rule and get this former Sec. of Ed. expelled from your school district!! It was pointed out that he would violate the Nashville code---but the board there didn't care. I think YOUR board should---it shows how absurd these rules are!!
You need a SECOND Fashion show to illustrate all the APPROPRIATE conservative clothes (such as the ones Alexander & Thompson have worn) that would be BANNED by these absurd SSA rules.
As for GANGS, since when do we give in to them; they have STOLEN ALL the primary colors (red & blue---the flag colors). Do we then ban use of those colors for us good people?" Gangs also drink Coke? Should we good people be banned from drinking it too??? Your policy should be similar to one adopted by the Osborn district in Phoenix after they spent $300,000 unsuccessfully defending an "anti-gang" code in court;---only ban those clothes SOLELY used by gang members AND used to intimidate others at school; and expel the gang members, while NOT punishing the good kids who just happen to wear the same kind of clothes for non-gang reasons (like sports logos etc). FREEDOM & DIVERSITY may not be as easy to enforce, but it is the AMERICAN way---not uniforms as used in every Communist & Fascist country in history.
I am sure the comments did embarrass the children but if the school board was trying to show what was acceptable then they should have chosen clothing more to the lines of their purposed rules. But we can all look at the above picture and see the untucked shirt, the shirt that is too tight, the skirt that seems to be too short, all of these are infractions according to the purposed rules. If it embarrasses these students to be pointed out in front of people they don't even know then imagine how embarrassed the kids will be at school in front of their peers by being pointed out for an infraction.
One of the problems I have with this is there will be students who will be allowed to break these rules just because of who they are, then other students nic-picked at just because of who they are. Just as it is now...some children can wear anything to school and never a word said while others are picked out to be made an example
My opinion also. If they really wanted parent input, they wouldn't have paraded those kids and then become upset when people made comments about their clothes.
Sorry Mr Carney I don't read every article you write.
If indeed it is a School Board decision then parents and students might as well be prepared for the SSA program next fall. It seems they have already made up their minds.But be assured any member who votes for the SSA against the will of the majority of parents will not get my vote come next election.
My kids always came home with knees and bottoms filthy. Are Kkakis going to hold up like jeans? I think I would have to be buying at least twice as many Kkakis and they aren't any cheaper.
What I would like to know is Who is going to vote on this SSA? Will it be the parents or the students who it will effect or will it be the elected School Board members?
I had to wear dresses in school also, but I would rather see our society moving forward, not backward. Will they start pushing girls in dresses and boys in suits and ties next?
You may be on to something, Grandpat. In the years I have been in Bedford County, there have been several positions created at Central Office.
WHY DOES METRO-NASHVILLE CREATE A NEW SCOOL ENFORCEMENT OFFICER SPECIICALLY FOR SCHOOL UNIFORM DRESS CODE VIOLATIONS,AND STUDENT COMPLIENCE?MIGHT BEDFORD COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD HAVE AS A REASON FOR SCOOL UNIFORMS THE CREATION OF ANOTHER CENTRAL OFFICE POSITION WHO WOULD POLICE STUDENT COMPLIENCE WITH SCHOOL BOARD-MANDATED SCHOOLWEAR?THINK ABOUT YOUR EDUCATION DOLLAR AT WORK!!WAKE UP!GRANDPAT
My eight year old will ONLY wear sweat pants, so far. He can't master the zipper-button thing. He's just kinda "husky" but they don't fit right.
So, I tried those elastic waist blue jeans. Those don't come in husky that I've found. He came home sore and mad!
He won't tuck shirt in either. Its uncomfortable even with sweats on. Belt - forget it.
Am I going to have to home-school?
jjeeezz....
As far as cost goes-->kids will still want to go to the Mall stores and will want to buy "designer Khakis and polos" and their peers will know the difference. Achievement will not improve--attitudes will stay the same as long as the Parents act the way they do and gangs will find another way to express themselves and it may not be so positive.
Dianatn-->I was just going to put that link in also.
I think that the board members are of the impression that the opponents of SSA are low-income, uneducated people. In reality, many of us who are highly educated and high income object to it. My kids don't want to look like "geeks". The kids modeling probably already dress that way and they all look the same to me. It is more and more government imposition and before long we will be under an autocracy.
Do you think Mr. Gray or the board members have even looked at this study?
If it is a positive experience for you that is fine...dress your children like that no one has ever stopped you. But don't pretend it makes your child learn more because of the way he/she is dressed. Don't be so presumptuous to think because your child don't mind wearing the same things everyday that everyone's child will feel the same way.
It seems to me we here in small rural Shelbyville should set back a while and see exactly what happens to metro schools before we jump on this band wagon. Nashville just started the SSA program and regardless of what you are lead to believe is not going well nor producing the numbers you would think it could.
There is a report if you would like to read it..it shows the numbers so far in Nashville and Memphis Schools concerning fights, attendance, disrespect, cutting class, Office Referrals/Disciplinary Infractions. We are just now going to the mid year mark and already have more problems in every catagory, than the year before when there was no SSA.
http://schoenml.org/mpass/charles.pdf
I think that the dress code is a good idea. The $80-$100 designer jeans that look like they are worn out before they are even worn once are such a waste of money. The parents can go to places like WalMart to get the Khakis and the shirts would be easy to find also. No more going all over the state trying to find school clothes for the Jr High & High School kids that they would wear.
We had to wear dresses when I was in school. So it could be worse than khakis.
Change is hard, and doesn't ever seem to go with protest.
My children had positive experiences with school uniforms in public school. They complained, at first. It did not take long to notice that getting ready for school was easier. Grades improved. School was pleasant. More academic interests were discovered. The kids were still able to express their creativity through clothing on nights and weekends. It was not difficult to find clothes that met the requirements either. All in all---positive experience.