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Read comments (59)Tuesday night's forum, held at Harris Middle School, was the last scheduled forum before Bedford County Board of Education is scheduled to vote on school attire later this month.
The forum held in November at Liberty School featured a 50/50 split between supporters and opponents of what was then being called Standardized School Attire (SSA). But the forums at Cascade School in December and Community School in January were dominated by opponents, and in some cases by angry accusations leveled against the school board for even proposing SSA. Critics accused the forums of being a pretense and claimed the board had already made up its mind on adopting SSA. The Times-Gazette web site's blog and story comments became a forum for additional heated debate on the issue.
School board member Diane Neeley said Tuesday night that she believes her constituents are split 50/50 on the issue. She said the universally-negative comments at two of the forums resulted partly from a hostile attitude created by SSA opponents which intimidated some SSA supporters from speaking. She said the people who attended the forums, some of whom attended more than one, represent only 3 percent of the 7,500 school children in Bedford County.
"Maybe the ones who are for it are not speaking as loudly," said Neeley. However, she said she personally thought the first SSA draft went too far in its approach.
Then, school board members held their annual planning retreat in January, devoting much of it to a revision of the original SSA plan, which had been modeled closely on Metro Nashville's policy. School board members said all along that the original plan was just a starting point for discussion. Board Chairman Barry Cooper said Tuesday night that the use of Nashville's plan as a starting point was "to save time and taxpayer money" by using something which had already been researched and discussed.
The revised plan, released earlier this month, loosens some aspects of SSA -- applying it only to grades 6 and up, for example, and allowing plain, unadorned blue jeans. But it still prohibits T-shirts in favor of solid-colored, collared shirts.
Some who spoke Tuesday night still oppose the plan, saying it still infringes too much on student freedoms. But others praised the revision, and two speakers near the end of the meeting even said the school board should not have loosened the document and said that the original proposal would be easier to enforce and more appropriate.
At the first three forums, school board members made little response to public comments, answering direct questions only when forced. But at Tuesday night's forum, Cooper announced that school board members, now that they had a sense of the public's mood, would be much more forthcoming in responding to the discussion, and that was indeed the case.
"This is the one we re-worked," said Cooper, "and we need to be willing to talk about it." But he also challenged participants to take a positive approach.
"Tell us something tangible that we can look at rather than just chew us out," he said. Board members stressed that the policy is still not set in stone and may be revised further based on public input before the final vote.
As at previous forums, several of the speakers were high school students.
The three previous forums were held on the same night as regular school board meetings and had a strict 45-minute time limit. Tuesday's forum was not. Cooper originally announced that it would last an hour and 15 minutes; in fact, it lasted two hours and 20 minutes.
In general, participants in Tuesday's forum took Cooper's advice -- proponents and opponents alike generally kept to the issues at hand rather than making personal attacks or questioning each other's motives or intentions.
Because of the length of the forum, it is impossible to include all of the comments and topics in this space, but here are some topics of interest, especially those where the discussion differed from or expanded upon what was said at previous forums.
Religion
Several critics of SSA have complained of inequitable treatment of religions, saying the code would make exceptions for Muslim women to wear headdresses but prohibiting Christian T-shirts.
Mary Jones raised the issue at Tuesday's forum.
School board member, and Assembly of God minister, Glenn Forsee said that the burden of proof for any religious exemption to the dress code would fall on the applicant. Anyone, Christian, Muslim or some other religion, would have to show that their holy scriptures or writings clearly require or prohibit a certain style of dress in order to get permission to violate the dress code. No exceptions would be made for something that is simply a cultural preference. All religions would be held to this same standard, said Forsee.
"I think I want people to judge my Christianity by how I act," said Cooper, "and not by what I wear on my shirt."
Later, another forum participant pursued the question of why religious T-shirts would not be allowed, saying such expressions of faith should be encouraged. Forsee noted that "religious" T-shirts, as required by various federal rules and regulations, would apply to any religion. If the school system allowed a Christian teen to wear a T-shirt promoting his religion, the same privilege would have to be allowed to a Satanist or Wiccan student.
Stripes and solids
The rules require solid-colored shirts and pants, which continues to be a bone of contention for opponents. Debra Smith, mother of children at Cascade School, said that she's an active and supportive parent but that the proposed dress code would keep her children from wearing anything now in their closet. She pointed out school board member Leonard Singleton, who was wearing a striped shirt.
County commissioner and former principal Jimmy Woodson, who attends Forsee's church, pointed to his own blue checked shirt.
"I could go to Brother Forsee's church like this," he said. "I sure wish I could go to school like this."
Another speaker later in the meeting noted that some people wear stripes to flatter their body shape -- vertical stripes to slim, for example.
School board member Mary Jo Johnson said limiting the shirts to solid colors makes it easier to determine at a glance whether students are in compliance. Cooper said the prohibition of advertising messages, prints and stripes was geared towards the goal of ensuring that well-off students are dressed similarly to lesser students. Striped or print shirts, said Cooper, are more likely to indicate whether a piece of clothing is a name brand or a bargain brand.
The policy allows white or blue shirts to be worn at any school, while each school would be allowed to choose up to three additional colors (presumably including the school colors). Cascade High School student Jolene Peters said this gives an unfair advantage to Central High School, since one of its school colors (blue) is already one of the standard colors.
School board member Amy Martin acknowledged Peters' point and said it should be taken into consideration.
Special needs
Two speakers discussed the impact of the dress code on special needs students. Exceptions to the code could be made for such students -- for example, autistic students are averse to touch and, according to speakers Tuesday night, are made uncomfortable by collars or closely-fitting clothing.
But one mother said those exceptions to the code will only serve to even further set her son apart and single him out for possible teasing and harrassment.
"You're ... making him more conscious of his disability," she said.
Judgment calls
Charleen Forsythe asked about the requirement in the code that pants and skirts be worn "at the waist."
"Men don't wear their pants around the waist," said Forsythe. "Nor do most women."
The intent of that rule, and the rule that shirts (or, in some cases, undershirts) be tucked in, is to prevent low-riding pants that reveal the wearer's underwear, buttocks, or both.
Kayla Feldhaus, a Central High School student who supports the dress code, said that the problem of low-riding pants is so bad that it affects the flow of traffic through the school's hallways by keeping some students from walking quickly.
But the use of the term "waist" means it will be subject to judgement calls by administrators.
Another speaker asked about the rule that pants not be so long that the wearer walks on them. She said her daughter's legs often come just to the end of her pants legs, and she sometimes barely steps on them with her heel. Board members said such incidental wear is not what the rule is intended to prevent; it's aimed at students whose pants are several inches too long.
School board members said common sense will have to be used by school administrators in the enforcement of several such issues.
Later, Art Legare, who supported the original SSA plan, said the loosened plan now being forth by the school board is "unenforceable" because it includes too many such judgement calls.
Sharon Cochran, like Legare, believes the current proposal is too permissive. She said allowing jeans now requires judgment calls about what jeans are appropriate or not. She urged the school board to pass a much stricter SSA policy, even in the face of opposition, and said parents will be won over once they see the program in action.
"The backlash will be short-lived," said Cochran.
Evidence
Legare also responded to critics who say the benefits of SSA in promoting a calmer and more productive school atmosphere are unproven. He pointed out that SSA is a relatively new development and said it takes 6-10 years to be able to truly and accurately study its true impact. He said that the Long Beach, Calif., school system is only now getting enough data to be able to accurately judge the impact of SSA, and he said preliminary evidence there is positive.
Martin, meanwhile, recalled the teacher who approached school board members last fall during their site visit to Glencliff Middle School in Nashville. He said he'd originally been opposed to SSA but had been amazed by what he perceived as the difference in the school's atmosphere since it had been put into place.
The school board's next scheduled meeting is 7 p.m. Feb. 21, and the board hopes to vote on a student dress code at that time.
Hey Darrick start a petition. My friends and I will sign it. HA HA!
I nominate Darrick and EM!
Taken from the "Opinion" Section!!
Wednesday, February 13, 2008
Mary Jones, Guest Columnist
Our county is on the verge of making a decision as to what your children can wear to school. This decision lied in the hands of nine school board members: Dixie Parker, Ron Adcock, Amy Martin, Diane Neeley, Barry Cooper, Mary Jo Johnson, Jerry Naron, Leonard Singleton and Glen Forsee.
In August, five of these members are up for re-election: Parker (District 1), Cooper (District 5), Johnson (District 6), Singleton (District 8) and Forsee (District 9). If anyone is interested in running for one of these positions, the paperwork must be completed by noon April 3.
this has been a very funny series.
i love the way the punch lines wrap around each other:
the students, who want to "express their individuality" by dressing in the latest teen fashions.
vs
the school board who "solve problems" by imitating the latest school administrative fads.
funny as the premise is to begin with, the finishing touch had to be restricting the ensuing debate to talk-radio talking points and "forward this to all your friends" e-mail information.
laz
ps. old people dress to send coded messages too.
for those who might not know the code:
necktie - meaning; i have a job & i am working today
soft shoes - meaning; i have plantar fascitis & dont like it when my feet hurt
bald head - meaning; i didnt get all the right genes
I'll run, if anyone will endorse me! lol... I need 50 signatures, who wants to volunteer?
Jacks4me
You could be in either district 4 or 5 depending on which side of 231 you live on................not real sure about the boundry but I am pretty sure the highway is a divider.
In August, five of these members are up for re-election: Parker (District 1), Cooper (District 5), Johnson (District 6), Singleton (District 8) and Forsee (District 9). If anyone is interested in running for one of these positions, the paperwork must be completed by noon April 3.
Someone please sign up! Go to the basement of the Bedford Co. court house to the election commission office and get the paper work, you need to get 50 signutres from registed voters in your district, before you can get on the ballot.
I am a district 1 voter and will vote for a new representive!
If I vote at Liberty School, what district am I in? I think it's on my voter's card, but I don't have it with me.
Taken from the "Opinion" Section:
Wednesday, February 13, 2008
Mary Jones, Guest Columnist
Our county is on the verge of making a decision as to what your children can wear to school. This decision lied in the hands of nine school board members: Dixie Parker, Ron Adcock, Amy Martin, Diane Neeley, Barry Cooper, Mary Jo Johnson, Jerry Naron, Leonard Singleton and Glen Forsee.
In August, five of these members are up for re-election: Parker (District 1), Cooper (District 5), Johnson (District 6), Singleton (District 8) and Forsee (District 9). If anyone is interested in running for one of these positions, the paperwork must be completed by noon April 3.
Should be interesting!
The funny thing is, I actually said they should wear pink shirts instead of blue at Harris Middle School.
Yes I was the sexy one there.
Jacks4me I see your point to a certain extent. All children who dress that way are not dealers and users nor do all dealers and users dress the same way. That is like saying all members of the mafia wear black suits and drive black limos.
Rappers are a big thing with kids these days just as the Beatles were in the 70's. Rappers dress gangster style although it does not make them gangsters. Kids like to dress like them just as they wore their hair like the Beatles in the 70's.
And No I personally do not argue just for the sake of arguing..
I understand that you don't believe EVERYTHING you see in the movies. You are completely missing the point, unless you really do see it and you'd just rather argue for the sake of arguing.
and EVIL MONKEY as for your gang in pink...don't you remember the gang from GREASE, the pink ladies?? LMAO!!!
-- Posted by Disturbia on Thu, Feb 14, 2008, at 2:30 PM
Dang, you beat me to it!
Evil Monkey
Didn't you ever watch the movie "Grease?"
The "Pink Ladies" were a girl gang!
One other point about color restrictions: What about the people (mostly male) who are color blind?
Will they be sent home or forced to limit and label their wardrobes lest they go out in red they thought was green or black they assumed was navy blue?
If they get outside help in identifying the right hues,will such counsel extend to preventing an Autumn from wearing ice blue or a Summer from wearing mustard yellow?
I tend to have faith in the general public's judgement but before we get to work on clothes,let's let people know how offensive and inappropriate it is to use a word that would apply to a highly functional person with Down's syndrome as a synonymn for fool.
Some of the "morons,imbeciles and idiots" are among our best members due to their openness,industry and good humor.
If one is stereotyping the "retarded" as genial and "gay" as creative,then that's a compliment.
Otherwise,we're maligning some good people while we try to disparage what we condemn.
Please, I know you watch TV and see pictures in newspapers and watch movies, etc.
-- Posted by Jacks4me on Thu, Feb 14, 2008, at 1:45 PM
and if I believed EVERYTHING I saw in movies then Tom Cruise is in fact an attorney, an airforce pilot, a bartender and a race car driver....there is a whole middle earth trying to save a ring, Batman really does get the bat signal, there is a dinosaur park with live dinosaurs and I really need to be on the lookout for Harry Potter, I need some magic done around my house.
Much to my dismay the biggest drug dealer in the town I moved here from was in an uniform...A D.A.R.E. policeman's uniform. So I don't think you can set a generaliztion of how a "drug dealer" dresses. They can be clean cut suit wearing nice looking young men, or preppy looking college frat boys or the granny next door ( you even hear people say "he didn't look like a drug dealer, serial killer, child molester"). on the other hand, some of the kids that you think are drug dealers are just dressing the way teens dress these days. They follow the trends as we all did...
and EVIL MONKEY as for your gang in pink...don't you remember the gang from GREASE, the pink ladies?? LMAO!!!
Yea I watch TV and movies. I saw Superman and Batman also but never realized that Super heros really dressed like that.
Please, I know you watch TV and see pictures in newspapers and watch movies, etc.
>>If you dress like a drug dealer, real drug dealers will think you are drug dealers and by allowing your child to dress that way is putting them, and the rest of your family in danger<<
How does a drug dealer dress? It would be good to know even out in the general public and it sure would make the police's job a whole lot easier to know how they would be dressed.
I am not for a dress code. I think if the schools would enforce that dress rules we have in place now it would help a lot. I love for my kids to wear what they want and look nice within reason. I also enjoy taking my kids shopping and allowing them to pick out clothes they like and feel comfortable in. I really dont think a dress code is going to fix the drug problems in school. I believe when there is will there is a way and no matter what you are wearing bad and good things are going to happen. I keep a watchful eye on my children and if all parents would do that then this would not be such an issue.
Just my observations:
If you dress like a drug dealer, real drug dealers will think you are drug dealers and by allowing your child to dress that way is putting them, and the rest of your family in danger.
If training does not equal educating, what do you call vocational and trade classes?
The 'drug snowmen' are not the cute ones on seasonal apparel. It is a weird looking one that has gold/silver capped teeth and other bling. I believe the reference not only comes from snow=cocaine, but also from an old movie called The Falcon and the Snowman.
Scenario:
You have called a contractor to work on your roof. Contractor A: He shows up in a suit, expensive car and doesn't look like he ever lifted a hammer in his life. Contractor B: He shows up with a truck and a crew who are organized and have the correct tools. They are dressed in heavy duty jeans, workboots, and other protective gear. They "divide and conquer" and get the job done. Contractor C: He shows up with a crew, of which he doesn't really know their names. Some have on shorts and flipflops and not everyone has the tools they need. You look out and two of them are sitting in the truck hours later.
Moral of the story: The best looking clothes may not be the appropriate ones, it depends on the situation. There is never an excuse for looking slovenly, unkempt and not doing your best.
I don't really know if I am for a dress code or not. I do think it would be more fair if teachers and adminsitrators were required to follow the code, or a dress professional code. (Not sleeveless tops, skirts above the knee, stillettos, etc. These aren't professional and don't belong in a classroom.) If they are approaching this from an attitude to create a more professional atmosphere, everyone has to be included.
Even Pink as a gang color?
I attended the SSA meeting at Harris Middle, I believe everything was scivalized, and in order. Although I am against the current SSA, I can understand and will agree there should be better standards or rules set for the clothes that our children wear to school.
Most parents that I know, and myself when shopping for my childrens clothes for school, I let them pick out what they like to wear, and I would check them to see if they fitted right or not. All children, including adults are going to pick clothes they think looks good on them, or feel comfortable wearing; but on top of that "CHILDREN are going to be CHILDREN", and they are going to pick out the latest trend, to try and fit in, with what other kids are wearing.
If they think it is hip to wear low rise jeans then thats what they are going to wear; tight fitting, loose fitting, sagging, bell-bottoms, gemmed up, glittered up, sewned designes and colorful.
My daughter is 8 years old, she likes to be somewhat dressy on some days; and she likes the glittered pants, with colorful designs and the gemms on them, she likes the Hannah Montanna, Cheetah Girls, High School Musical shirts and tops. She likes matching her shirts and pants together by their designs and colors, and matching belts. When we shop she picks out her clothes she likes we make sure it is a size or 2 big for her to grow in, she is tall for her age and grows fast.
My son is 15 and his Daddy's side of the family usually helps with his school clothes, and they always buy him nice clothes, his pants are nice thick durable jeans with some type of designs or name brand, and he gets nice shirts long and short sleeve, some are T-shirt material, and some are like sweater material; some have name brand logos on them, some have no designs on them and some are colorful with different designs "Including Gold or Silver Chains and $Dollar Signs$ on them" and my son DOES NOT BELONG TO NO GANG, NOR IS HE A DRUG DEALER. They are always nice and decent. He does wear his clothes loose fit, but never shows skin or underwear.
"IMO" "NEW STANDARDS "
Let them Buy what ever clothes they want, as long as it is 1 pants or top size big, that way it is not TOO TIGHT or TOO LOOSE. Shirt neckline no more than 3 inches from neckline. Let them wear a belt IF THEY NEED TO. Let them wear a undershirt tucked, and outer shirt untucked, "AT LEAST a length long enough to cover right below their bottom, SO THAT SHOULD THEY HAVE TO BEND OVER AND PICK UP A PENCIL others are not seeing BUTT CRACK OR UNDIES". No SEE THROUGH clothes permitted.
"NO OBSCENE IMAGES OR LANGUANGES, NO DRUG PARAPHANALIA IMAGES OR LANGUAGE, NO GANG SLOGANS OR IMAGES,CONFEDERATE FLAG IMAGES, RACIAL SLOGANS OR IMAGES, permitted".
Let them wear what ever colors they want. The SSA is approving the color "BLUE" it "IS" a "WELL KNOWN GANG COLOR" for the "CRIPS" a gang in Los Angelos California.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crips
They believe the color could have came from a "School Color" or from his best friend.
So "NO MATTER WHAT COLORS" they set for school attire, it TOO can be made a "GANG COLOR".
I think she would be adamently against it... And I also think that it isn' fair to subject everyone to the consequences brought on by a few...
Your daughter is very much an individual and along with others, I think she would willfully dress as herself not a robot! I, personally would not wear a uniform, because the government isn't always right, it's ok to not have them rule our entire lives, not limited to but including our attire!
Darrick,
Since you DO know who I am, I have to ask you one question since you know her! How do you think this SSA would have worked for my oldest? Many parents have stated that children are not comfortable in certain clothes due to their shape, weight, and build. What are your thoughts on that?
Like I said failing to train our youth is training our youth to fail. It is painfully obviously a lot of parents dont know the difference when your children should express themselves and when they should follow the rules, shut up, sit down and listen. If you dont know the difference, well then you are retarded.
To be blunt, you can kiss my HaHaHa! My husband takes our children to school every day and sees what they wear. Nothing gets past him! I leave earlier to go to work but do trust his judgement, its harsher than mine as a matter of fact! I expressed myself in the 80's and have done just fine. I represent our great State of Tennessee in 18 counties. I know how to negotiate, dress, and impress. It did not destroy my ability to be a good employee, person, or parent. I dont need anyone telling me how my kids should be dressed. Not the school board, state, or government!
seedsower or should I say snowblower,
Why are you judging people by the way they dress? It is funny, but did you know in the late 90s the standard attire for millionaires was blue jeans and t-shirts? They were professional that worked very hard NOT flipping burgers or gutting chickens. I guess thats how you determine if someone makes it in the world, if they don't surpass your background as what?! A sheepherder?
Dianatn,
No I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to another person. I never had any issues with anything you have said because you speak using common sense.
And that whole idea of "civility and dialogue" was great until somehow someone felt the need to be disruptive and call everyone retards...
Apparently, the only thing seedsower was TRAINED to do was dress appropriately, while completely disregarding the whole idea of respect. See what I mean, we will raise an entirely incompetent generation b/c we are telling them that we care more about what they wear than what they learn.
If the purpose for school was to TRAIN our children, then why on earth are we EDUCATING them?
I train my dog, animals handlers train their monkeys, schools train animals for the disable but I do not train my child and do not need my child trained. My child is in school to learn and get the best education possible.
If I had wanted a robot that just sit down and shut up and do nothing but listen with no real ideas of their own I would not have had children, I would have bought a robot.
Like I said failing to train our youth is training our youth to fail. It is painfully obviously a lot of parents dont know the difference when your children should express themselves and when they should follow the rules, shut up, sit down and listen. If you dont know the difference, well then you are retarded.
-- Posted by seedsower on Wed, Feb 13, 2008, at 7:31 PM
Teachers are there to EDUCATE our youth, NOT TRAIN THEM... This isn't corporate America, this isn't the military, these are our YOUTH... The greatest inventors/scientists/doctors in the world were never defined by what they wore! So, perhaps sitting down and knowing when to shut up is reciprocal. The top 10 in my graduating class had a 3.0 or higher. I was #2 and had a 3.8, and not one single point of that reflect what I wore!
Like I said failing to train our youth is training our youth to fail. It is painfully obviously a lot of parents dont know the difference when your children should express themselves and when they should follow the rules, shut up, sit down and listen. If you dont know the difference, well then you are retarded.
-- Posted by seedsower on Wed, Feb 13, 2008, at 7:31 PM
I don't TRAIN my child, like you would a dog. I teach my children respect by acting respectful. "Failing to train our youth" you weren't well trained if you are coming on here calling people retarded. I think kids of EVERY generation have always expressed themselves much to the dismay of the older generations and some great people have come out of those decades. CLOTHES DO NOT MAKE THE MAN and you can't judge someone by how they dress. What if your government decided tomorrow that EVERYONE had to dress the same. and you had no say in it, how would you feel? I know I wouldn't do it. I would rebel somehow someway. And you don't even take into consideration, while singing the praises of the school uniform, that most parents can't afford 2 different sets of clothes for 2-3+ kids.
If you are all for it there seedsower, then by all means, you can gladly buy my kids school attire while I purchase the after school/weekend/summer clothes.
Congratulations to all of the liberal retards of Bedford County. We actually had an opportunity to have or children dress like respectable people and pretend the school board were the bad guys, but instead, Bedford Countians exposed themselves for what thet really are: A bunch of redneck retards who honestly think they are doing their child a favor by letting them express themselves at school by dressing like fools.
Oh well dont complain when your children cant get a decent job due to the fact they have never been taught what is appropriate. Failing to train IS training to fail.
Dont look for Tyson Foods to hire them either. They only hire illegal immigrants and Somolians, and our town leaders like it that way.
-- Posted by seedsower on Wed, Feb 13, 2008, at 4:48 PM
MY RESPONSE:
Excuse me seedsower, but I don't think labeling people as "REDNECKS" & "LIBERALS" in the same statement, makes any sense to begin with. Our highschool hardly prepare a student for college, much less a "career"...
How about you do me ONE favor, please list the mandated school dress code when you were in school, I'd be delighted to read it, since you obviously have experience in this nonsense...
................AND...................
For example; this will probably shock some of you but do you know what a T-shirt with a snowman on it represents? Let me give you a clue. If that snowman is accompanied with some Dollar Signs and gold jewelry this student is wearing this shirt to let other students know that he is a Cocaine Dealer. Now how many of you responsible parents knew that. Better yet how many of you responsible parents have seen your child or one of his friends wearing a snowman T-Shirt? How many of you know what it means when a kid is wearing one pant leg pulled up and one worn down? These are all symbols that I have seen when attending sporting events this year. Once again I commend the school board for their hard work and pray that SSA gets passed.
-- Posted by Justunjust on Wed, Feb 13, 2008, at 5:15 PM
MY RESPONSE:
Does it not occur to you that the world's most notorious drug dealers dress themselves in suits and ties and are millionaires? I don't see them dressing in such crazy attire. Being out of touch with your children doesn't start with their clothing, it starts with their attitudes, their beliefs and their perceptions, nothing physical about it... And of course, putting all those children in the SAME outfit will only make it more difficult to spot those people in the ridiculous clothes, which you say represents a variety of evil.
We dress inmates in our prisons all the same, and it doesn't seem to improve anything, now does it?
A Snowman means a cocaine dealer? So I have been supporting cocaine dealers all these years with my pretty little snowmen on my tree, on my shirt and in my yard. Oh and to think how many cocaine dealears I have built over the years...HOW HORRIBLE..LMAO!! You have to be kidding me??
Seems that justunjust knows just a little too much about cocaine dealers and gangs...JMO...
So in other words, by having them all dress alike, the drugs will go away, the gangs will go away, the teen sex will go away, how deluded can one person be?
Like I said failing to train our youth is training our youth to fail. It is painfully obviously a lot of parents dont know the difference when your children should express themselves and when they should follow the rules, shut up, sit down and listen. If you dont know the difference, well then you are retarded.
Evil Monkey, I don't know if you was speaking to me or not but it seems to me if I were a student or a teacher, I would want to know who these gang members or drug dealers were. Because as a student I would want to know who to stay away from and as a teacher I would want to know who to watch for illegal activity. I surely would not want them blended into the crowd.
Actually I had no idea that a snowman meant a cocaine dealer (I guess that cute sweat shirt I bought last Christmas needs to be tossed away)
Even if SSA is approved it will not stop gangs and dealers from coming to after school activities (ie: ballgames, high school plays,etc)
Parents must teach their children the dangers in the outside world, not cover up the dangers with a band aid. It is my job as a parent to teach my child these things, it is not my job to enforce the lives of other parents or their children nor is it the school boards.
Many of us that grew up in the 70s and wore bell bottoms and headbands and beads and ruffled shirts and clogs and feather earrings and long vests....are now literate and have very,very good jobs as upstanding citizens. There were many drug dealers in my day also and we all knew who they were, but the way we dressed did not mean that we were one of them and did not prevent us from going on to obtain college degrees.
So how do you deal with it? Punish the many for the off-the-track few? Yeah it's kind of like in an accident where someone has been drinking you take everyones license away because they were on the same road.
And BTW sporting events is considered an AFTER school activity and would not have be subject to SSA.
LOL Like making dealers and gangs all wear the same clothing will make them go away. Surely, you are that foolish.
I am a very opionionated person but have refrained from expressing my opinion on this matter until now. First of all I want to commend the School Board for their diligent work in this matter. After attending several High School Sporting events over the past few years I cant help but notice the need for the Standard School Attire. Many of you who disagree with me express your anger at the School board members and think that their mind is made up on the issue without listening to the citizens. Ask yourself if the school board had to put themselves on a stage and take the complaints that they have taken. If they wanted this passed without input all of our kids would already be wearing SSA. Obviously they want whats best for our kids. It is sad that the public school system has to place restrictions on what our kids wear but lets place this blame where it needs to be placed. PARENTS! Many of you parents are not responsible enough to determine what is reasonable school attire and what is not. And many of you who think you are responsible are so out of touch with your kids that you don't have any idea of the symbolism your kids are portraying with their attire. For example; this will probably shock some of you but do you know what a T-shirt with a snowman on it represents? Let me give you a clue. If that snowman is accompanied with some Dollar Signs and gold jewelry this student is wearing this shirt to let other students know that he is a Cocaine Dealer. Now how many of you responsible parents knew that. Better yet how many of you responsible parents have seen your child or one of his friends wearing a snowman T-Shirt? How many of you know what it means when a kid is wearing one pant leg pulled up and one worn down? These are all symbols that I have seen when attending sporting events this year. Once again I commend the school board for their hard work and pray that SSA gets passed.
How long has SSA been around now? So I assume everybody that went to school and now have jobs are retarded rednecks.
Did you wear Standard School Attire? Well I didn't and I did ok for a retarded redneck and don't have to wear Taco Bell, or McDonalds uniforms either.
That had to be the most ridiculous comment I have ever heard in my entire life!!!!
Congratulations to all of the liberal retards of Bedford County. We actually had an opportunity to have or children dress like respectable people and pretend the school board were the bad guys, but instead, Bedford Countians exposed themselves for what thet really are: A bunch of redneck retards who honestly think they are doing their child a favor by letting them express themselves at school by dressing like fools.
Oh well dont complain when your children cant get a decent job due to the fact they have never been taught what is appropriate. Failing to train IS training to fail.
Dont look for Tyson Foods to hire them either. They only hire illegal immigrants and Somolians, and our town leaders like it that way.
-- Posted by seedsower on Wed, Feb 13, 2008, at 4:48 PM
I LOVE PEOPLE LIKE THIS THAT COME ON HERE SPEWING THIS STUFF AND THEN HAVE THE COJONES TO CALL US RETARDS.....
I don't think for one second that the way kids dress at the moment means that they aren't going to get good jobs or go to college or excell in life. I am sure that if you grew up in the 80's and had the hair that hit the top of your car roof or wore the God awful Madonna clothes, you still made it somewhere in life. And the same if you were born in the 70's with the bell bottoms and platforms or the 60's etc....too much emphasis is put on what they are wearing, there are some really great kids in these schools that will change the world no matter how they are dressed. I don't like the low rise jeans either but I am with Dianatn, it's virtually impossible to buy normal jeans anymore and let's face it, kids, especially the girls these days are built completely different than we were.
You have to admit that we liked being able to express ourselves no matter the generation we grew up in and if we were in the same situation that the kids are now, we would all be fighting it to. I say let kids be kids and let them be who they are, to a certain degree, while maintaining respect, but don't turn them all into little look alike robots that have no identity. What they wear has no affect on their grades etc....
seedsower,
I sorta agree, but the dress code they had originally thought of is the same dress code at Taco Bell, Burger King, McDonalds', and Pizza Hut. I am glad you setting the counties children to such higher standards to be able to not work at Tyson where they have to wear a smock and get sprayed down with chicken blood and guts.
My original proposal was to be dressed in business attire and several people agreed if that was the reasoning behind the Boards SSA. But it seems that it was a different reason and that was safety of the county students, and less enforcing by teachers etc.
Since I am clearly a retard by your standards, show me a good solution to the problem?
Sincerely,
The retarded evil monkey
Congratulations to all of the liberal retards of Bedford County. We actually had an opportunity to have or children dress like respectable people and pretend the school board were the bad guys, but instead, Bedford Countians exposed themselves for what thet really are: A bunch of redneck retards who honestly think they are doing their child a favor by letting them express themselves at school by dressing like fools.
Oh well dont complain when your children cant get a decent job due to the fact they have never been taught what is appropriate. Failing to train IS training to fail.
Dont look for Tyson Foods to hire them either. They only hire illegal immigrants and Somolians, and our town leaders like it that way.
I was at the forum last night, however, I did not speak because it seemed to last forever and I was ready to get home. This dress code will not affect me, but it will affect my younger brother and sister. I am, by no means, what you would call a "thin" person. Some of the requirements of this new dress code would not flatter my body at all. In fact, some of these things would look worse and less appealing on me than what I normally wear. Shirts must be no more than 3 inches below the waist are not long enough for "bigger" girls/guys. Shirts being tucked in and not all polos look well on larger framed people. I think that the school board should take the average person's body into consideration and think of the discomfort that bigger people will have to go through. Stop focusing on what will look good on thin people, they forget that not everyone is built like a stick.
tiffany,
I sympathize, really, I do, but there are jeans that are not low-rise. I have a daughter and son, so luckily I get the best of both worlds and I do know what kids go through because I take a active part. I am against the SSA, but I am also against seeing JR's buttcrack/underwear hanging out from under his shirt while his pants legs are over his shoes. There is no excuse for dressing like that.
Levi's 501, 505 all are not hip huggers. They look nice and are decently priced if you buy them at the right times. The issue with the shirts was raised and they have alot of input regarding this.
If you are so against this, were you at any of the forums? If not, it is hard for them to hear you. I am against this, I faced them, I told them my opinions and how to rectify it with solutions.
I was not afraid to tell them who I was on the blogs either. They do not have to agree with me but they did listen and I even got a hug from one of them. So it can not be fought sitting at the computer, but it can be fought by talking to them about the issues.
I do NOT agree with any of this. If muslim religions can wear head wraps, why can't other children at least wear beanies, toboggans, or whatever you want to call them? If it's cold one day and a student walks to school like I do, we don't want our ears freezing over. We wear beanies but have to remove them then re-fix our hair, all because we can't wear them inside the school! If this were to pass I don't see the problem with striped or logo'd shirts. I'm not of a wealthy family and I don't have the name brand attire, but I make due with what I have. A friend of mine at school was cussed out because she wore the same color shirt as another girl. How is forcing the students to wear the same colors going to help? My friend's feelings were really hurt because she wore something she liked and someone else didn't like that she wore it. No one knows what goes on in the school except students, teachers, substitutes, and staff members. The board really has no idea what goes on. Just because we text doesn't mean aren't learning. I have plenty of friends that text during class and I see them do it, but they still pay attention to what the teacher is saying. I could understand not wear actual HATS, but can't we at least wear beanies? I mean, COME ON, how fair is that to all the stuents that aren't muslim? THERE ARE NO JEANS THAT AERN'T LOW RISE NOWADAYS!!!! I wish we could get that through so many thick skulls. THIS ISN'T THE 70'S!!! Wal-Mart, Kohl's, no one carries anything anymore but low rise jeans!
Darrick,
I was there, it was civil. And I honestly believe they were listening. I brought up the religion garb issue and it was stated they would have to prove it was a religious act to dress that way. Basically they would have to point it out in the Quran/Koran that covering the head, face or body in that way was how they perceived.
And as I have explained both positions, the Board actually answered alot of questions, which is what they planned to do in the last two forums before the vote because they wanted public input. This is not my opinion, but what was told to me by them.
Again, I repeat, I am still against this. I believe you should wear what is within reason to school. I am against droopy jeans/pants. I am against hate speech shirts, I am against filthy lewd clothing so I understand some of the issues faced.
VERY WELL STATED "outside observer"...
All those anit socialists should LOVE this policy, and I for one think it laughs in the face of freedom! Of just being American. Not having your local governments dictate what you wear en route to getting an education. I still think it is so silly that at these forums, the issue is what students wear, not what they are learning..
The dress code issue concerning spiritual beliefs of Muslims requiring females to keep their hair covered (actually it is supposed to be everything covered except hands and faces) should not even be an issue. It is codified in their religion that this is what they must wear. I understand that this community is an evangelical majority, but times are changing and people have to accept it. I have worked in the school system for many years and have seen religious intolerance rear its ugly head on more than one occasion. I have heard teachers say that the Muslim girls should not be allowed to wear their head coverings because it is against dress code "and they shouldn't believe that nonsense anyway." I have seen students wearing their Christian cross jewelry proudly for all to see, and I have seen and heard the laments of Wiccan students being forced on fear of punishment to hide their five pointed stars inside their shirts because people find them "offensive." Why should Christians receive preferential treatment just because they are in the majority? If a Christian cross can be worn at school, so can a pentacle, or a Star of David, or any other symbol of a persons religion for that matter. All religions in the public school system should be treated with equality not intolerance. News flash folks: Your religion is not the only one and it is not the only right one. I have a friend here in Shelbyville who is Wiccan and has raised her family as Wiccan. She has two students in the public school system who are exemplary in both behavior and grades. They do not wear anything religious to school for fear of retaliation. If these smart and loving children cannot wear their jewelry or T-shirts to school, then the Christian children should not be allowed to either. In this article Satanism and Wicca are lumped together as if they are the same or at least similar. Anyone who knows a truly practicing Wiccan family will definitely tell you they are not the same and are not even similar. People really need to spend some time asking questions and researching for themselves before casting a positive or negative light on anyone's spiritual or religious beliefs and customs. Let the Muslims keep their scarves and get over it. Allow religious iconic jewelry at school if you choose, but allow everyone's icons not just your own. Put intolerance aside and show love and acceptance toward all. Freedom of religion is a constitutionally protected right after all.
"Cooper said the prohibition of advertising messages, prints and stripes was geared towards the goal of ensuring that well-off students are dressed similarly to lesser students"
Is this one rationale behind instituting the dress code? I would commend to Mr. Cooper that his argument is a very slippery slope, and would ask where does he draw the line? As "Disgusted" mentioned, do we tell our children they cannot drive to school because they may have a nicer car than someone else, or do we tint the bus windows so students can't see each other's homes? What are we teaching our children about the society they live in? This proposed policy teaches children that they should feel guilty about having more than someone else and perpetuates the idea of the "haves" and "have not's." We do not live in an egalitarian society, and success should not be viewed as shameful but virtuous. Therefore, remove obscene and distracting clothing, but do not teach children everyone should be the same.
Michael Sager
I support the dress code, but think that it needs to apply to all students; not just Junior High and High School.
I do agree striped shirts will be hard to avoid, and think that the majority of Shelbyvillians will have to go out of town to buy their attire, or order from online stores. Online stores may be the best shot at getting the right clothes.
I know for a fact that Wal-Mart will not carry enough stock to clothe the whole town.
I believe after working out the kinks, that this SSA program will work great!
The problem with the board giving you a clothing allowance would be it would still come from you in the long run in the form of a tax. How do you think the Public School system is funded in the first place? That would be Taxes.
I am certainly tired of hearing about this I also realize the board will do whatever they want to do..I don't see a problem with stripes or checks nor do I see a problem with pink verses blue. As far as the low riding jeans go...have you been blue jean shopping lately? Please do tell me where you can buy jeans these days that aren't low riding..I have been looking for some for myself because I hate the low rider styles. When you look at a pair of jeans and the zipper is like 3 inches long, How close to your waist do you think the top of the jeans will come?
"School board members said common sense will have to be used by school administrators in the enforcement of several such issues."
If that is the case, then why can't we continue with our current dress code and be more strict with it's enforcement?
"civility, dialogue" may have been achieved because it appeared that the board members were actually listening to what some people were saying.
I was not at the Liberty forum but it was reported by some that some members of the board were the ones being rude. Since it was the first forum, that might be the reason some opponents felt frustrated. I was at the forum at Community and I disagree that it was uncivil or hostile. Hard questions were asked because they hadn't been answered yet. I wasn't at Harris so I'm not sure if those questions were answered there either.
I continue to believe that it will not impove self-esteem or increase academic performance for every student. Some kids will still be left out of the cliques and will now have no means of expressing their uniqueness. They will become invisible. How will that help them?
Whatever the board decides, I hope that it is enforced fairly.
All of the research, graphs, charts, and actual documentation that I have been able to find have ALL proved that there is no real link to an improvement in grades, discipline issues, or general environment of a school with SSA or such a strict dress code policy. The Board may have changed the name to alleviate the initial opposition, but the policy itself is still basically the same and is still a SSA policy.
Gangs will recruit members and members will continue affiliation regardless of how they are required to dress. The dress code will just make it harder to recognize members or students that they are trying to initiate.
The research that I have found, including research posted on t-g.com, show that schools spend MORE time dealing with dress code violations after implementation of a strict dress code policy than they did before. This increase is not just in the first year after implementation either, it continues for following years.
The same research shows that several districts decided to abolish the new policy within a few years due to the increase of violations and complaints compared to the negligible improvement that was not realized.
I have yet to see any research provided by the Board to show any proof of the improvement that is claimed to be realized with a SSA policy. All I have been able to locate is research showing that it does not work to the extent to offset the cons.
Those cons include:
1. Teachers and administrator additional time spent dealing with dress code violations rather than educational issues.
2. Families additional costs to purchase "approved" clothing in addition to existing clothing, leisure clothing, farm/work clothing, etc...
3. Students will find new ways to express their individuality if they cannot express it in clothing. These new ways may include violence, destruction of property, hall/class disruptions, attitude issues, etc...
I stand behind the idea that some schools may have an issue and need assistance in improving their environment, but I cannot see how a new dress code policy will ever achieve that improvement.
Well, I went there last night and I have to say the Board has stated that they are considering striped polo shirts. I talked with Amy Martin in person and a few of the other board members.
Blue Jeans - the retrictions to these are, No low hanging jeans, and they cannot drag under the shoes. No holes, patches, or embellishments like crystals, studs, or additional stuffs added.
It isn't as strict as it seems. And yeah I still oppose it to some degree. My problem is the punishment for non-compliance and I think they really did listen to my solution to that was.
There was alot of hostility at the other meetings because they didn't answer questions that the public had. That was a problem and the public felt they were being ignored.
The board expressed they should have dealt with that better, their reason was they wanted input from the public on the first draft. The board was setting a foundation from those forums, let it be known, last night, alot of questions were answered and I saw alot of them taking notes and addressing concerns.
It was a very productive night and there was no heated arguments and I have to say, it was civil. Actually It was alot of fun.
Striped or print shirts, said Cooper, are more likely to indicate whether a piece of clothing is a name brand or a bargain brand.
This will NOT eliminate the whos got more issue! At least one of my kids has overnight company at some point every week just like many others do.
They see each others homes, games, computers, vehicles, etc. Next they wont be able to drive to school because one may have a nicer car than the other.
I am not opposed to the dress code but I dont understand why it has to be so strict that the children cant wear stripes!!! I have all boys, we have several striped polo style shirts. I think these are appropriate and single parents such as myself buy things that can be passed sown thru my kids, now I am going to have to purchase all NEW for ALL 4. Its not right and I think that if this is what the school board wnats, then maybe they should give us a clothing allowance, especially the lower income families!