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 Salaad Nur (T-G Photo by Brian Mosely) [Click to enlarge] |
That's when carloads of Somali refugees from Bedford County head to the city for assistance from the center, which provides social services and advocacy "to meet the needs of refugees and immigrants in a culturally sensitive manner," according to program coordinator Kerry Foley.
Salaad Nur, outreach coordinator, said there are an estimated 500 refugees or more living in Shelbyville at this time and that the center tries to provide services "the best we can."
Somali refugees in Tennessee were the focus of a program held at Middle Tennessee State University Thursday titled "Somali Immigrants in Middle Tennessee: Challenges and Opportunities," which was introduced by Dr. Jeremy Rich, who teaches African studies at MTSU.
The presentation was the final stage in a week-long series of events on Africa, and was co-sponsored by the Middle East Center.
"Our greatest effort in Shelbyville is to try to organize the community, because it's not going to be feasible to do everything for them (from Nashville)," Nur said.
He said the best option is to try to organize so the refugees could have a structure to try to work with Bedford County government to improve their relationship with the larger community.
"We can also see what kind of services they need, then try to advocate for that ... that is really where the effort is," Nur explained. Although many come to the center from Shelbyville, the center is unable to provide the same level of services as it does to refugees living in Nashville, because the Shelbyville Somalis only can come a couple of times per month.
"That has been a limitation, but we try to serve them as much as we can."
The only Somali organization currently in Bedford County is the Islamic mosque, and the center is looking at providing English classes at that location, depending on the resources they can obtain, Nur said.
"There are members of the mainstream community that are able to bring us these resources to the (Somali) community there."
Nur said instead of the center in Nashville providing a branch office in Shelbyville for the refugees, they wish for the Somali community here to take the lead.
"We don't want all the decisions coming from Nashville, and be imposed on them. If they are able to organize themselves and give them all the opportunities that we can give them, partner with them and ... guide them."
He recalled the early days of Nashville's Somali Community Center, when it couldn't pay the phone bill. The community came together to make the center work, he said. He said he doesn't want the Shelbyville community to feel dependent on the Nashville center.
Nur explained that while the center was established in 2000, it did not really become an effective force for the Somalis until 2004.
Members of the center have also been meeting with different stakeholders in Bedford county, such as the sheriff's office, where an officer was provided recently for training to the Somali community on how to interact with police officials. There has also recently been a meeting with County Mayor Eugene Ray, although Nur did not participate in that gathering.
Talks are also ongoing with the Adult Learning Center on how to improve English classes in Bedford County.
"One thing about Shelbyville is that there are a lot of changes there," Nur explained. Many of the refugees arriving in Shelbyville are coming not from Nashville, but Columbus, Ohio, and they are people "that we're not real familiar with."
"We're trying to do the best we can but it's not something that's going to happen overnight. But as long as that community is there, someone will step up and bring these services on line."
Foley said that while the name of their organization seems centered on one nationality, immigrants from any country are welcome to come through their doors, but most of their clients are African. Virtually all the members of the center are bi- or multilingual, she added.
Foley asked the students to estimate how many Somalis were living in middle Tennessee and got answers ranging from 100 to 300. She said there are at least 5,000 Somali refugees in this part of the state, although they weren't sure of the exact number.
"Even at the Somali Community Center, we don't know how many there are," Foley explained. About 78 percent of the Somalis clients they serve that came to Tennessee are considered "secondary migrants," which means they have moved here from other parts of the U.S. and the center has no way to track them. Foley added that there are about 1,200 listed in their database.
The reason the refugees come to Tennessee are varied, but the primary reasons are the availability of jobs, cost of living, the climate and the presence of other Somalis who settled here first, Foley said.
There is also a sizable African population growing in middle Tennessee, including Sudanese (an estimated population of 7,000), Ethiopians, Burundians, Rwandans and other nationalities. Currently, a large number of refugees from Burundi are being resettled in Nashville, Foley said.
According to the center's figures, 70 percent of their clients are refugees; 12 percent are "asylees," who meet the definition of "refugee," but travel on their own to this country; 11 percent have become American citizens; six percent represent "other," many of whom have obtained a diversity lottery visa; and one percent may be T.P.S., which stands for temporary protective status, for people who are allowed to stay in America until the situation in their home country improves.
A total of 54 percent of the refugees are under the age of 30 and they typically have large families, up to eight children in some, with most coming to America within the last two or three years. The center generally does not see clients until they've been here for a year.
Foley said the majority of Somalis in middle Tennessee work for either Dell Computer or Tyson Foods poultry processing plants, with an average pay of $9.58 an hour. Foley mentioned that the Somalis' Muslim faith forbids them from working in Tyson's pork processing plants.
Many Somali women take jobs as caregivers, some take up teaching positions and many are employed with Enterprise Car Rental or work in factories, Foley said. Many work second and third shift and will work "any job," Foley said.
Much of the money the Somalis make is sent back to their home country to their families, a practice that has been seen with the Hispanic community locally and nationwide.
Some of the Somalis are well educated, with some refugees being medical doctors, others that have earned Ph.D.s and other degrees, but a major problem these refugees face is they have no transcripts available of their overseas education since Somalia has no functioning government. Foley said that many want to work with the United Nations so they can return and help back home.
In Nashville, a variety of Somali restaurants have gone into business in the southern part of the city along Murfreesboro Pike, as well as clothing and grocery stores.
re: " (And no where did I post ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN MY POST)"- Did I quote you on this? If you read carefully, you would see I did not.Posted by summerhill on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 6:06 PM
"Summerhill" No; what you do is take certain parts of my post, paste it, and then comment on it, adding things in your comment that I have not said anything about. For example, your first comment to my posting. When I was explaining how the Govt. & Pres. is always having some type of "Deals or Dealings" with other countries (Instead of Americas own resources) and that the Govt. & Pres. have allowed the Immigrants, and refugees in America; and allow them to have the benefits they and Americans have. (What I posted was not saying I was unhappy in America. What I posted was saying the Refugees & Immigrants are not the ones to get angry at for those that are upset with the somalis that have came here).
But you take and paste what I said, and then "Cop an Attitude with me about not being happy living in America. ???? Something I did not say ANYTHING ABOUT.
You posted: Please explain which country, and under what government would you feel happier to live in? If talk of Taxes and refugees, cause you to spew illogical neighborhood investing scenarios... try living in Canada, or the UK, where taxes are out of control. There's an option there.
Perhaps you would consider living in less developed countries, such as Rwanda, Afghanistan, Cambodia, and yes...Somalia -- Posted by summerhill on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 7:21 PM
And again the second time you take certain parts of what I post and paste it, make your comments on it and add stuff in your comment that I said nothing about. Example of me saying the reason why there are so many Immigrants, Refugees and other Nationalities here in America is because the Govt. & Pres. are the ones that allowed them here, these are part of their Agreements and Deals with other countries. And then you make comments on that, talking about the history, ancestors, and your ancestors being immigrants; and how they should not be shunned because of "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS". Which has nothing to do with what I said.
You posted: That statement begs a history lesson:
>Unless you are of 100% Native American heritage, all of our ancestors were immigrants, or refugees. Arriving in America to evade religious persecution, or starvation due to the potato famine.
>I think perhaps this history is often forgotten, due to the rampant invasion of illegal aliens, that cross our borders, and bleed the system.
>Those immigrants still exist, and they should not be shunned because of the illegal immigrants. Posted by summerhill on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:17 AM
"Summerhill" Like I said before, "YOU QOUTED ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS" in your comments to me after pasting what I posted on Immigrants, Refugees, and other Nationalities here in America. You continue to add something in your comments to me that has nothing to do with what I post. "For What"? to Argue...
You Posted:
I think the disability in reading comprehension is on your end.
Try reading my entire posts, without the anger, and then perhaps you will understand. You will notice the only comments I make correspond with the attached direct quotes taken from certain posts from you Posted by summerhill on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 6:06 PM
"Summerhill" Take your same advice, and instead of taken certain parts of what I posts to only read, read the entire posts' and then perhaps you will understand what I was saying. And I have noticed that your comments "DO NOT" correspond with the attached direct quotes taken from certain posts from me. "Your comments do not make sense toward what I posted"
You posted: You have a very hateful, aggressive manner when someone challenges you, Momof3&3step&1gran. Which is really a shame. Because I think you are very thoughtful person, and have a great deal of compassion for the Somali refugees, as you said in one of your other posts
"Summerhill" I do not have a Beef with you, but my question to you is what exactly are you "Challenging" me on? If you think I have a very hateful, and agressive manner when someone (You) challenges me; then perhaps you need to "Check your own Tone of what you (Started posting to me)". You are the one that set this tone, so if you find it hateful and agressive then perhaps you need to look in the mirror. That is my opinion, and I make it very clear.
I am thoughtful of others, especially the underdogs, the less fortunate, mistreated, the weak, elderly, children, or the used and abused. But regardless of that, when someone takes something I posted, or something I said and try to "TWIST" what I am saying for the sake of arguing, then that is someone that I consider to be trouble and I do not take anything you/they say lightly.
You can continue on this "Hateful and Agressive" tone all by yourself, your comments to my posts are off subject of what I posted.
Pleasant Dreams.
"Summerhill" perhaps you are not reading my whole post, or you just can not comprehend what I have posted. "I" do not have any problems with anyone coming to AMERICA that will cause no harm. Nor do I have a problem with them getting Govt. help to get on their feet. Their are others that are upset that these "Somalis and other Immigrants" (And no where did I post ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN MY POST) have came to America, and are getting Govt. help, while the ederly Americans are getting no help. Their anger is directed toward these people (Somalis & Immigrants). They (Somalis & Immigrants)are not the ones that make the "LAWS AND RULES" of America; The Govt. and their Presidents (ARE). They allow these people here, and gives or not gives the benefits to them and all Americans. And "THE CONSTRUCTIVE SOLUTION" that I mentioned in my post was:
re: " (And no where did I post ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN MY POST)"- Did I quote you on this? If you read carefully, you would see I did not.
I think the disability in reading comprehension is on your end.
Try reading my entire posts, without the anger, and then perhaps you will understand. You will notice the only comments I make correspond with the attached direct quotes taken from certain posts from you. Not a general commentary of your entire volume of posts on this subject. My posts are my opinion, and I make it rather clear.
You have a very hateful, aggressive manner when someone challenges you, Momof3&3step&1gran. Which is really a shame. Because I think you are very thoughtful person, and have a great deal of compassion for the Somali refugees, as you said in one of your other posts:
"I believe this is a way of life for them, and it is going to take some getting use to the Americans and our ways of living."
This is classic, armchair warrior thinking.
Complaining, and blaming, but offering no constructive solution. Only defensive posturing.
-- Posted by summerhill on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:17 AM
"Summerhill" perhaps you are not reading my whole post, or you just can not comprehend what I have posted. "I" do not have any problems with anyone coming to AMERICA that will cause no harm. Nor do I have a problem with them getting Govt. help to get on their feet. Their are others that are upset that these "Somalis and other Immigrants" (And no where did I post ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN MY POST) have came to America, and are getting Govt. help, while the ederly Americans are getting no help. Their anger is directed toward these people (Somalis & Immigrants). They (Somalis & Immigrants)are not the ones that make the "LAWS AND RULES" of America; The Govt. and their Presidents (ARE). They allow these people here, and gives or not gives the benefits to them and all Americans. And "THE CONSTRUCTIVE SOLUTION" that I mentioned in my post was:
As for help for our elderly, We have to get "All OVER" our Govt. officials, and presidents for failing the American people. Taking our anger out on each other, is not going to solve anything, everyone need to go to the source that caused all this to be.-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 7:45 PM The new commers to America will need to adjust and get along with their neighbors, or they are going to have a hard time getting help from locals. (Common Sense) Give respect and you'll get respect.
When I hear rhetoric like yours, I always wonder, "if I were that unhappy with the country I live in, where would I find a better country?" I can't think of another country that I would chose to leave America for. -- Posted by summerhill on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:17 AM
"Summerhill" I do not have to use "Persuasion" to anyone about this country, every American knows that since Bush took office the economy has been a spiral down hill to recession. "Jobs, homes, benefits, gas you name it. We are all feeling the effects of it. If you want to find another country to live in (Your Solution) then by all means go right ahead. My solution was the people who want a change need to address the President, and Govt. officials about lack of help for American citizens. Not leave the country.?
I think perhaps this history is often forgotten, due to the rampant invasion of illegal aliens, that cross our borders, and bleed the system. It is something that needs to be stopped. Has to be stopped. However, I am all for those who arrive in America, legally, who take the time to learn the language, obtain legal employment, and contribute to the economy.
Those immigrants still exist, and they should not be shunned because of the illegal immigrants.
-- Posted by summerhill on Wed, Mar 26, 2008, at 9:17 AM
Again the Govt. officials and President, did not fully secure the Borders and still haven't to this day. (THE SOURCE). And the Somalis refugees are not "Illegal Immigrants".
Stop getting my post TWISTED with putting blame, and complaining "as you call it"! I know what I want, and what to do.
"Summerhill", the country and govt. that I like, or live in, is the one I was "Born and Raised" in to answer your question. And what I posted has nothing to do with your tax senarios or what ever else you posted.
What I was stating was the Govt. (Presidents) allowed all that have came to America to come; and the Govt. is the one that is giving these benefits, as well as not giving benefits to others. Blaming Somalis for all of these type of things is like blaming your spouse, which had absolutely nothing to do with it, the Somalis have no control of that, only their behavior. What I posted has nothing to do with what you posted.
-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 10:29 PM
I was posting in response to your posts. Not because I assumed you misunderstood my posts.
You want to know why their are so many other "Immigrants, Refugees, and other Nationalities here in America? It is because "America always has its hands in the "Cookie Jar and Bowl of Milk & Honey". Americas GOVT. is always in other countries business, trying to make or steal Big $$$ ex. (Bushs'). They do Business with these other countries, and make agreements with these other countries, and some of the agreements are to allow some immigrants here in the US, usually for 1 year, and allow refugees of all nationalities here as well. "IT IS ALL BUSINESS AND MONEY, ALWAYS HAS BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE. Their are Americans settling in other countries as well.
-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 6:16 PM
"The Good Ole Bush Boys" "Devils", "The People" wanted him, crooked devil that he is, so they got him. Now look what ALL IS HAPPENING. And don't think it is not going to get worst, because it is. "The Damage Is Already Done."
-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 3:27 PM
This is classic, armchair warrior thinking.
Complaining, and blaming, but offering no constructive solution. Only defensive posturing.
When I hear rhetoric like yours, I always wonder, "if I were that unhappy with the country I live in, where would I find a better country?" I can't think of another country that I would chose to leave America for.
You wrote:
"Immigrants, Refugees, and other Nationalities here in America? It is because "America always has its hands in the "Cookie Jar and Bowl of Milk & Honey".
That statement begs a history lesson:
Unless you are of 100% Native American heritage, all of our ancestors were immigrants, or refugees. Arriving in America to evade religious persecution, or starvation due to the potato famine. Take a stroll through some of Shelbyville's cemeteries, and see proudly etched in marble from "County Derry Ireland". Immigrants arrived in full force in hopes they will better themselves, become landowners, farmers, business owners. Lets not forget those who came here to escape the horrors of both World War's in Europe. They fled here, and faced difficult times establishing themselves in the fabric of society. Really examine the stone walls, and architecture of the older homes. You will find various cultural influences surround you. I for one am very grateful and proud my ancestors chose that path.
I think perhaps this history is often forgotten, due to the rampant invasion of illegal aliens, that cross our borders, and bleed the system. It is something that needs to be stopped. Has to be stopped. However, I am all for those who arrive in America, legally, who take the time to learn the language, obtain legal employment, and contribute to the economy.
Those immigrants still exist, and they should not be shunned because of the illegal immigrants.
I agree with Mr. Carney's characterizations of my comments and his clarifications about them. Specifically, he is correct that my tax comments are meant to demonstrate a point about how disturbing I find many of the posted comments on the Somali question.
First, with regard to taxes, I am happy to pay more in taxes and I am happy that much of that money goes to help the less fortunate. I think that our tax system should continue to be progressive. At times when I have made less, I was happy to have paid less for certain. I also agree that because we live in a democracy, everyone gets one vote only, even if you pay more in tax.
So all of that said, my intended point is as follows: In America, almost everyone is a net charity case. Most Americans are being subsidized heavily by other Americans. Some may not like to hear this but it is simply a mathematical fact. 85% of taxes are paid by only 20% of taxpayers. This year, due to the stimulus package, the average family of five in Bedford County will pay zero federal tax! So most Bedford County residents are getting the benefits of a government they really don't pay much of anything for. This is fine with me. But when I hear the very same Americans who are being so subsidized begrudging a few pennies of charity to African refugees, I can't help but cry out "hypocrite!"
If someone gives you two slices of pizza and gives your neighbor some bread crumbs, don't say, "if only I had the breadcrumbs too, life would be good and fair." Be happy with the pizza and be happy that your neighbor has a little something to eat as well. I think Jesus said it best when he said, "Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found." I am challenged daily to appreciate and abide by those words.
Finally, I will note that the nerve that my tax comments have touched with some of the other posters should give those posters some idea of how the Somalis probably feel when they are called freeloaders. Now that you know what it feels like, maybe you will be motivated to stop casting stones.
In closing, I have been encouraged by the professional tone of Mr. Mosely's recent articles on this topic. He has taken the high road of late, even when talking about the many problems in the Somali community. I hope he continues to edify his readers rather than pander to their xenophobic and/or racist insecurities.
Loblert's argument, as I understand it, is that every household should, ideally, be paying the identical amount of tax per capita -- and therefore that he's being overcharged somehow and the rest of us are riding on his coattails.
I realize that he's just using this argument as a way of responding to the idea that government service X, being provided to a Somali, is a burden on non-Somali taxpayer Y. He didn't start out by demanding the tax system be changed; he's just trying to get people to see his argument about the original topic of this thread.
But since we've gotten into this tax-fairness argument, let me throw a couple of ideas in. First off, there are many different competing ideas about what's "fair" in terms of taxation: progressive taxes, regressive taxes, flat taxes and what have you. I really doubt we're going to settle that argument here.
What troubles me is the implication that only people in a certain tax bracket have the right to opine on government spending. That is elitist hogwash. I agree with loblert that some people have distorted ideas about what this or that particular program is costing them. But I strongly disagree with the implied idea that loblert somehow has more right to say how federal dollars are spent because he supposedly pays more taxes. It may not have been loblert's intent to imply that, but it's sure come across that way a couple of times.
The federal government is not a corporation, in which one stockholder has more shares than another. The federal government exists to serve all of us, and all of us, in a perfect world, would have an equal voice in its operation, regardless of our tax liability.
I am so happy that evidently you are financially well off Lolbert since you pay so much in taxes but just because you make more money doesn't mean you have any more right to tell people how they feel or what their situation is. You are being borderline pompous with your comments. It doesn't matter if you pay a dollar or ten thousand in taxes; each individual is still paying taxes and has just as much right to complain about where their tax dollars go as the next person. So, this ideology you have that just because you pay more taxes makes your point or opinion more valid and nobody else has a right to complain or suggest where their tax money goes just goes to prove how exaggerated your sense of self worth is compared to other individuals. Unless you are also paying taxes for everyone else, what right do you have to determine how they want their money spent?
I am done arguing with you because I can see that your inflated sense of self worth and your callous attitude toward other individuals proves you have no understanding about the situation or have any experiences that suggest otherwise. I don't blame anyone for my problems . . . I deal and solve my own problems but I do not wish to have other people's problems added on to me. I am happy with my station in life and how I live and conduct it and for you to assume otherwise just further illustrates your ignorance.
That means that the average household in Bedford County pays only 28 cents out of every dollar it fairly owes. Someone else (I think I know him) pays the other 72 cents.
-- Posted by loblert on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 11:22 PM
loblert, if you're paying the difference of everyone's "fair" share in tax, then why is our country $9,000,000,000,000 in debt? Maybe that's why some people get so worked up.
Jaxspike -
I am sorry you had to hang out with some jerks at Davis Estates. But that is just it. If someone is a jerk, they are a jerk. It does not make all Somalis jerks. Just get angry at who was bad to you. Don't expand it to a whole community. I have daily dealings with Somalis. Some of them are rude and some of them are nice. That is no different that my daily dealings with everyone.
The average household income in Bedford County is $40,554. The average annual federal income tax paid by a Bedford County household is only $2,889. Yet nationwide, the government must collect approximately $10,000 in income tax per household to defend and operate our nation. That means that the average household in Bedford County pays only 28 cents out of every dollar it fairly owes. Someone else (I think I know him) pays the other 72 cents. Yet all I read in these T-G blogs and comment sites is complaints about Somalis or Mexicans or some other group that has made things bad for "locals." Wake up! Nobody is responsible for your problems except for you. If you only paid $3,000 in tax last year when you rightly owed $10,000, how can you get so worked up that literally 5 cents (one nickel) of that money went to help Somalis? Focus. Think. Shake off the anger. Solve your own problems! The blame game is a dead end street.
I just hate the fact that those who criticize the individuals who have a problem with the Somali community here are usually those who have the least amount of dealings with the Somalis. I am the most opened minded person there is and accept all people but after living at Davis Estates and seeing the Somali community move in and destroy that place changed my perception of them and especially the negative dealings I had with many of them. I had lived next to other individuals from other countries and never had a problem with them. In fact, I had one set of neighbors that were from India and they were the best neighbors and were very friendly and we got along great and made friends with some of their family and friends. The Somalis though never tried to be friendly and when you would ask them not to yell in the hallway at 3AM, they would either ignore you and continue being a disturbance or they would verbally abuse you. Some times I would go to work with just a few hours sleep because of the noise they would make with no consideration of the other tenants. And it wasn't just one set of them . . . it was various ones and different ones moving about. Most of them would back off eventually because I can handle my own and being a male but I had female friends that would be afraid to come over because of what would go on.
It was just sad because David Estates use to be one of the nicer apartment complexes in town and had a great community but now it's a different story. No one should have to put up with what goes on over there and especially from those that supposedly left a country to get away from violence and a better life. I feel for the woman who called Brian and was crying because of what she is experiencing at Davis Estates. It is just not right and it makes you wonder who is doing more of the compromising.
But really, I am not going to have some person who has no dealings with the Somalis sit here and try to invalidate my experiences with the Somalis and the problems they have created because I have seen it and experienced it in person. When you been kept up at all hours of the night by loud yelling or have had your car hit by them or have to deal with their behavior then you can comment to me about how I might be unfair in what I am saying. But don't label me as a racist or think I have problems with people different than myself . . . I have spent my life defending people from minority groups but I will not put up with bad behavior or abuse just for the sake of being politically correct.
Please explain which country, and under what government would you feel happier to live in? If talk of Taxes and refugees, cause you to spew illogical neighborhood investing scenarios... try living in Canada, or the UK, where taxes are out of control. There's an option there.
Perhaps you would consider living in less developed countries, such as Rwanda, Afghanistan, Cambodia, and yes...Somalia.
Only in America do we have the luxury to complain about the luxuries we have, and blame, and blame, and blame, the Government (oh yeah, and Bush) for things we could have but don't strive for.
-- Posted by summerhill on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 7:21 PM
"Summerhill", the country and govt. that I like, or live in, is the one I was "Born and Raised" in to answer your question. And what I posted has nothing to do with your tax senarios or what ever else you posted. I began posting after this post:
Don't take my hard earned money from me to subsidize an immigrant so they can send their money to another country. No wonder they all want to come here!
-- Posted by writeattitude on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 4:43 PM
But I had to leave and pick some people up, and fix the family something to eat. I came back to finish what I was posting afterwards. So I never even seen your post until after my last post before this.
What I was stating was the Govt. (Presidents) allowed all that have came to America to come; and the Govt. is the one that is giving these benefits, as well as not giving benefits to others. Blaming Somalis for all of these type of things is like blaming your spouse, which had absolutely nothing to do with it, the Somalis have no control of that, only their behavior. What I posted has nothing to do with what you posted.
And the same for refugees of other nationalities and immigrants, The Govt made these things possible so they take what is available to them. Just like Americans that need Govt. assistance with food, child care, and schooling; These things are available to them so they use the help. This is not suppose to be a permanent thing for the refugees, It is suppose to be temporary help to get them on their feet.
I do not hear anything in the news, or newspaper of anyone or place that is able or willing to teach Somalis the english language. Are their any books of Somali language translated to english to help them? and Where?
As far as the rudeness goes, I do not know anything about their culture, habits, or ways of living. But I have seen American parents that are very nice and mannerable, and their children and grand children tend to follow suit. I have also seen, parents that are more on the sloppy habit side, with foul talking, and act as if they don't give a care about anyone or anything, and their children act the same way.
I have seen Americans of black and white be rude and disrespectful, and think everyone owes them something or has to wait on them hand and foot, and not care about cleanliness of themselves or their living enviroment, not want to work, and depend on Govt. assistant. That is in all nationalities and races.
I personally have not come upon a Rude Somali, but a cousin of mines have had a confrontation twice with a couple of them. I have noticed that they do not make the eye contact of hello most Afican-Americans give to another. I have come upon one that smiled at my 3 year old daughter who kept waving and saying "hi" to everyone she meets in the driving license place.
I believe it is going to take some time for the Somalis to get use to the American culture. I believe that their was no control (laws)or protection and safety of what goes on where they are from so they are very defensive, and demanding people. I believe this is a way of life for them, and it is going to take some getting use to the Americans and our ways of living.
As for help for our elderly, We have to get "All OVER" our Govt. officials, and presidents for failing the American people. Taking our anger out on each other, is not going to solve anything, everyone need to go to the source that caused all this to be.
If you stick your hands in the Bowl of Milk & Honey, when you pull it out you will bring back some milk and honey stuck on your hand. You want to know why their are so many other "Immigrants, Refugees, and other Nationalities here in America? It is because "America always has its hands in the "Cookie Jar and Bowl of Milk & Honey". Americas GOVT. is always in other countries business, trying to make or steal Big $$$ ex. (Bushs'). They do Business with these other countries, and make agreements with these other countries, and some of the agreements are to allow some immigrants here in the US, usually for 1 year, and allow refugees of all nationalities here as well. "IT IS ALL BUSINESS AND MONEY, ALWAYS HAS BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE. Their are Americans settling in other countries as well.
-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Tue, Mar 25, 2008, at 6:16 PM
Please explain which country, and under what government would you feel happier to live in? If talk of Taxes and refugees, cause you to spew illogical neighborhood investing scenarios... try living in Canada, or the UK, where taxes are out of control. There's an option there.
Perhaps you would consider living in less developed countries, such as Rwanda, Afghanistan, Cambodia, and yes...Somalia.
Only in America do we have the luxury to complain about the luxuries we have, and blame, and blame, and blame, the Government (oh yeah, and Bush) for things we could have but don't strive for.
If you stick your hands in the Bowl of Milk & Honey, when you pull it out you will bring back some milk and honey stuck on your hand. You want to know why their are so many other "Immigrants, Refugees, and other Nationalities here in America? It is because "America always has its hands in the "Cookie Jar and Bowl of Milk & Honey". Americas GOVT. is always in other countries business, trying to make or steal Big $$$ ex. (Bushs'). They do Business with these other countries, and make agreements with these other countries, and some of the agreements are to allow some immigrants here in the US, usually for 1 year, and allow refugees of all nationalities here as well. "IT IS ALL BUSINESS AND MONEY, ALWAYS HAS BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE. Their are Americans settling in other countries as well.
What if your next door neighbor tells you that he can get $300,000.00 for an investment of $50,000.00. He tells you that he has 25,000.00 and if you put in the other 25,000.00 he will give you half the profit ($150,000.) You agree to it, you get an home equity loan of $25,000.00 on your house and give to him. But something happens and you loose the profit and the $25,000.00 you invested. Know you have 2 payments "mortgage and equity" to make and not enough income to cover it. Your house gets forclosed on, and you are angry. You get mad at your wife because she did not bring home enough money to cover the two payments on the house; but it is not your wifes fault she did not make the deal. So who do you blame???? In this case don't blame the Somalis for what they get, Blame your GOVT.
But you all are missing the point. American tax dollars for refugees are only being paid by a few million high-income Americans. Asking that these dollars be rerouted to your mother's insurance is just asking for wealthy Americans to give money to your mother rather than to Somalis. You can't dispute this point. It is a mathematical fact. A family of five earning $60,000 who owns a home will pay almost zero federal tax in 2007 (net of tax credits and refunds). 50% of all taxes are paid by 5% of Americans. So unless you paid big taxes last year we are not talking about what do do with your money, we are talking about what do do with my money. Read the report Mr. Mosley linked to. Somalis don't get big cash handouts. They get settled in and the have some ongoing services as needed until they are up on their feet. I am happy to spend my money to provide this limited humanitarian aid to these people. FYI, I also support increasing aid to the elderly.
I think I understand the point lolbert was trying to make about taxes and subsidizing... a very intricate, complicated, and important means of dispensing tax dollars.
For example, tax payer funded healthcare.
Some subsidy programs you may not find important, but some are desperately needed. Such as Subsidized Hospice Home Care.
I found this article helpful in understanding who pays what proportion of taxes.
"Do Tax Cuts Benefit Primarily The Rich?
In a word, yes. Now before anyone rushes to conclusions, it must fairly be pointed out that the reason the rich benefit most from tax cuts is because the rich are the ones that pay taxes. If I don't buy milk very often, I'm not going to see much benefit if there's a decrease in the price of milk. Likewise, if I don't pay much in taxes, I'm not going to see much benefit if there's a decrease in taxes. That doesn't mean a decrease in the price of milk or a tax cut is a bad thing, it simply means it will only effect those people that buy milk or pay taxes.
IRS data shows that in 2004, the richest 50% of the taxpayers paid 96.7% of all income taxes. From 1986 to 2004, the share paid by the richest half increased from 93.5% to 96.7%, and the share paid by the richest 1% increased from 25.75% to 36.89%. At the same time, the amount paid by the poorer half decreased from 6.5% in 1986 to 3.3% in 2004. While the poor's contribution was cut in half, the richest Americans saw their contribution increase by nearly 50%. When you get past the propaganda, for the last two decades the rich have been paying more and more while the poor have been paying less and less.
To put it simply, of the $832 billion in personal income taxes collected in 2004, the richest half of the country paid $804 billion while the poorest half only paid $27.4 billion.
Those that make the claim "the tax cuts help the rich" will claim that the reason why the rich paid so much more in taxes is because they made so much more money. There is truth to that, though the progressive nature of the tax code also insures that the rich pay more than they should, proportionally speaking. However, the reason for the rich paying so much more is irrelevant to this discussion: If the "rich" are paying 96.7% of the income taxes and the poor are only paying 3.3%, then it's simply common sense that most of any income tax cut will benefit those that are paying it. You can't reduce taxes on someone who isn't paying any.
Are the poor paying taxes? In 2005, a family of four was considered to be at the poverty level if they earned less than $19,350 . If you complete a 2005 1040 considering an income of $19,350 and four family members, you will find that the standard deduction for the couple is $10,000, and an additional $3200 deduction is given for each of the four family members for an additional $12,800. So, in all, the family earning $19,350 has $22,800 in income deductions which means they pay no federal tax. In fact, a family of four will not pay a single dollar in federal tax until the family earns at least $22,800. Since these people pay no taxes whatsoever, a tax cut will obviously not be of any direct benefit to them since they aren't paying taxes to start with. This doesn't make the tax cut a bad idea, but it stands to reason that it won't directly benefit anyone that isn't paying taxes any more than a price reduction in milk won't help anyone that isn't buying milk. "
Some people speak of government grant money like it is manna that falls down from Heaven. Government grant money is American tax dollars that have been designated to fund all these humanitarian causes. You ask what difference it makes if these subsidies go to Americans or to Somalians? If you have to ask what the difference is, then any argument from this point is futile. The original article that began this discussion stated that those who work send most of their money back to their families in Somalia. That can only be possible if they are receiving American dollars for their personal upkeep. I would love for the government to keep me up so that I could go ahead and pass all my earnings on to my children and grandchildren. When these people become gainfully employed here in the United States, all their subsidies should cease. Working Americans have to get by on their earnings (or at least what is left after taxes). Don't take my hard earned money from me to subsidize an immigrant so they can send their money to another country. No wonder they all want to come here!
Mr. Mosely -
Thanks for the specifics. Based on my read, it sounds like the entire nationwide refugee program (of which Somalis are a tiny part) amounts to about 0.03% of the federal budget. Given the ratio of Somalis to other refugees, that means that all services given to to Somalis nationwide are costing each American about 5 cents per year. But really, as I pointed out, American adults who paid less than about $10,000 in federal tax last year paid nothing at all for refugee programs.
For those of you wondering how much money is spent for refugees, there is a ton of information on this page. It is mostly done through government grants.
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/orr/data/arc_05.ht...
Also, Annette5 said:
"Just drive behind Northside Urgent Care building. The trailer park has trashy yards, christmas lights, fake flowers strolled in the yards, cars parked all over the yards, 20 people to a household. Our town is looking trashy."
You can't be talking about Somalians when you made this comment. I highly doubt they would be putting up Christmas lights at any time of the year - they don't celebrate Christmas.
I thought Kerry's presentation at the beginning of the panel did a really good job of teaching the audience a bit more about Somalians. The two other speakers were really effective as well.
Tell me how I am being subsidized? If I am then I need to contact the government because I havent received any checks in the mail. LOL!
I know for a fact that several Somalis are being directed to apply for public housing and welfare and are receiving such benefits . . . some are moving from Davis Estates to public housing because it is cheaper and they are gtting assistance in doing such.
Now tell me how that isn't receiving money from the government.
Again, I ask what government handouts Somalis are getting? I am not aware of any. What are they? How much are they costing you as a taxpayer?
With regard to taxes, my point is a fair one. I am subsidizing three or four Bedford County adults who don't pay their fair share of our tax burden. If you paid less than $20,000 in tax last year as a married couple, then you are definitely not paying your fair share. That
means that you are being subsidized so it is hypocritical of you to suggest that Somalis can't get a little subsidy too. That is my point.
I wholeheartedly agree that before our government spends millions of dollars subsidizing refugees and aliens, we should make sure our elderly and disabled have enough money to survive on. My elderly mother just got her second notice within six months that her medical insurance policy was being increased. This is her supplemental to her Medicare. The amount of the new fees will be almost equal to one of her Social Security checks every 3 months. This is in addition to the amount they already take out of her Social Security check for her medicare. Try living on 2 out of 3 of your checks when you already have to get by on a bare bones minimum. The travesty of this situation is that my mother has multiple children and in-laws who are working, tax-paying, productive citizens who are paying more than their fair share of taxes. While we know these funds will probably not still be available to fund our old age, it would be nice to know that our contributions could help our mother instead of some person we don't or probably will never know. How does Bedford County get so lucky to acquire all these people? I say if Nashville is so interested in helping them why don't they keep them there and house them and clean up after them and provide them with jobs. It would be easier than hauling them to Nashville once a week. Who pays for all the high price gas for them to make their little trek each week? Is that provided for them also? I know our "open door" policy is what has made America so appealing throughout its history, but the original immigrants worked hard to conform themselves, their language, and their customs into the American way. This new breed of immigrants want the Americans to conform to their customs, and make concessions for their benefit.
American's religious freedoms have all but been done away with , but if a Muslim wants to stop and pray 3 times a day in public, or on the job, or in the middle of the street, we're suppose to back up, side-step, and get out of their way. As one TV show states, "That's Messed UP"
loblert
I don't know who you think you are to think you pay anything for me or anyone else on this comment board but let me assure you, YOU do not know me nor do you know how much money I have or how much I pay in taxes.
And you are so right you don't hear the Somalis complaining " What the heck do they have to complain about?"
What government money do the Shelbyville Somalis get? How much is it? How do you know? As to taxes, the government collects an average of about $13,000 in federal income tax from each American adult. Therefore, if you did not pay $13,000 last year, someone else paid your share for you. The reason this is relevant is that it is those who get this HUGE subsidy who yell loudest when some refugees get tossed a few government crumbs.
My point is this Lolbert . . . why are we taking care of other countries problems when we can't take care of our own?
That is the point you seem to be missing every time. The government seems more willing to help other countries and its people and declare war to protect democracy but yet its lacks so much in taking care of domestic issues which our tax money should be going to first.
BTW . . . I love the whole I am superior attitude you display by stating that you pay more taxes and thus you pay for my roads and defenses and etc. As a single person, I pay more in taxes than most families but yet a family of four places more burden on government with schools and roads and such but that doesn't make me better or more superior to them. It all works out the same and we pay are part . . . I just want to see what we pay go back to the people who originally paid it in and to the citizens.
Arguing for the sake of arguing doesn't validate anything you say.
Just a few more things on my mind...Maybe we would not be so upset if they were not taking our job's..MAYBE we would not be so up-set if they were not trashing our town...Maybe we would not be so up-set if they were not so rude...and MAYBE we would not be so up-set if they were not getting alot of thing's free that we the locals have to work so hard for.....MAYBE !!!!
LOBLERT....Get off of what DIANNETN is tring to say and how she feels and a whole lot of other pople out here too...We all pay our taxes here and would love to see our town nice again...Going down Madison or any other place and it is dirty looking and runned down. Do you want to know why you have not heard them complain ??? Because they do not talk our talk or walk our walk..They are RUDE...I was in the store last nite and they were blocking one whole isle. I waited for a moment to see if they would step aside so I could get what I needed and they would not move. My husband was checking out and his bag's were in our cart once and there were 2 of them behind us and one of them came around my husband and started going thru our bags yelling about her panties. She thought the check out lady had put her panties in our bags. My husband tried to stop her from going thru our bags that he had just paid for and she pushed his arm back and kept going thru our stuff. The poor check out lady did not know what to do. And we did not have her panties in our bags.WE ALL PAY OUR TAXES HERE NO MATTER HOW MUCH OR HOW LITTLE..We just want our town back.
If there are any elderly people who are without the means to support themselves, we should help them too. We don't have to choose. And the point about my taxes is this. 20% of Americans pay almost all of the taxes the government collects but all the complaints about how it is spent come from the other 80% who pay next to nothing.
REFUGEES!!!!That is the point.
I know of several people who can not find a job.Tysons was "NOT HIRING" but yet they are sending in 50 Samalians and these Americans are having to seeks assistance !!!What is wrong with this picture~I don't care how much in taxes you pay!~This is what is wrong with our country!!!!
I don't have a problem with Samalians,hispanics or anybody else trying to better themselves,infact I am all for it BUT don't leave the ones who have paid taxes all heir life out in the cold! I am for the Elderly first,and foremost when it comes to benefits!!!!Where is their help?They paid taxes and social security their entire life and can't get help.They have to choose medicine or food because they "make too much"come on people~~~lets help them first THEN help the refugees.
diannetn - I agree. The Somalis should take responsibility for any problems they have. I have not heard them complain though - just you. Jaxapike- if you will examine your tax returns and calculate how much tax you paid last year, net of any tax refund you received, I expect you will see you did not pay very much. And that is fine. My point is not that I am paying for your national defense and roads and schools (which I am). My point is that it is a dead end game to try to blame someone else for your problems. If life dealt you a bad hand, do what millions of other Americans have done for 200 years. Go to night school and take a second job. Don't blame your plight on the fact that some African refugees got Tyson jobs and food stamps.
There's a Trailer park behind Northside Urgent Care building? I didn't know that.Of course I don't think I have ever been behind it...or if I was, I didn't know where I was at lol
I agree with alot of you. They are very rude and I've heard alot of people say that. Maybe they could move Tyson overseas and that would take care of alot of problems. Shelbyville used to be a nice quite place to live, but it is being taken over and looking like a junkyard in most neighborhoods. Just drive behind Northside Urgent Care building. The trailer park has trashy yards, christmas lights, fake flowers strolled in the yards, cars parked all over the yards, 20 people to a household. Our town is looking trashy.
I agree with alot of you. They are very rude and I've heard alot of people say that. Maybe they could move Tyson overseas and that would take care of alot of problems. Shelbyville used to be a nice quite place to live, but it is being taken over and looking like a junkyard in most neighborhoods. Just drive behind Northside Urgent Care building. The trailer park has trashy yards, christmas lights, fake flowers strolled in the yards, cars parked all over the yards, 20 people to a household. Our town is looking trashy.
I agree with alot of you. They are very rude and I've heard alot of people say that. Maybe they could move Tyson overseas and that would take care of alot of problems. Shelbyville used to be a nice quite place to live, but it is being taken over and looking like a junkyard in most neighborhoods. Just drive behind Northside Urgent Care building. The trailer park has trashy yards, christmas lights, fake flowers strolled in the yards, cars parked all over the yards, 20 people to a household. Our town is looking trashy.
I am a native of Shelbyville, was born and raised there. I moved away about 8 years ago but I still have family there that I visit time to time.
2 years ago I came to Shelbyville to visit my son and his girlfriend who lived at Davis Estates and I was shocked to see all of the Samalians.My son and has girlfriend were the only natural born citizens of Shelbyville living in their building.My son said it seemed like one morning they woke up and there they all were.Do not get me wrong, I'm all for people doing better for themselves, but it goes back to the same thing I have read here... If you wish to live in the community, then please try to at least pick up a little of the language.While I was there visiting it seemed all hours of the night the Samalians were out side standing around talking.they were rude,they threw trash on the ground like it was nothing;Davis Estates pays someone everyday just to pick up trash.I'm happy to say my son and his girlfriend have moved away from Shelbyville to New York, they both say they feel safer. Who would have thought New York safer than Shelbyville TN.
>>Be thankful for what you have and take responsibility for your own problems.
Posted by loblert on Mon, Mar 24, 2008, at 5:24 PM
What wonderful advice I think we should tell the Somalis that very thing!
Lolbert . . . you do not subsidize anything for me. I pay taxes also and do not receive any benefits or assistance from the government and work for everything I have while also donating money to United Way.
Your condescending remark just shows how ignorant you are and the fact you are not understanding why people have issues with what is going on.
What I have a problem with is the fact that government claims they don't have the money or resources to provide help for senior citizens for rising costs in health care and everything in general but yet they are able to provide various service for illegal aliens and refugees and bring them here when the local government budget is strained as is. These senior citizens have spent a lifetime paying taxes and help building this great nation and now we thank them by showing preferential treatment to illegal aliens and refugees while shoving the door in the senior citizens' faces.
It sounds like all of you feel as though life has treated you unfairly. I hope that your lives improve. I also hope the lives of these refugees improve. Despite what Hitler said about the Jews, I don't think we can blame our own misfortunes on what we think to be advantages given to a disfavored ethnic group. Your problems are your own and neither a government program nor a purge of the Somalis will solve them.
Over the past three years, I have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in federal tax while most Americans, including many if not all of you paid next to nothing in tax. I am subsidizing many of you without a complaint, yet you begrudge a few programs for some African refugees. Be thankful for what you have and take responsibility for your own problems. If you do not, you are in for a pathetic life full of bitterness.
Somalis are rude, hateful people. They have nasty, unsanitary and disease causing habits. It is no secret, many have leukemia. According to TV documentaries they have no physical examines when they enter America but do have a "question and answer" health review. Let's Get Real! They sometimes complain or refuse to complete necessary forms for free services. If they want to live here and be accepted, they need an attitude adjustment. They drive cars that the churches buy for them even though they do not speak or read English, and are dangerous drivers. If they want to live in America they should dress and act as Americans or go back home! The Nashville center should be concerned that maybe our towns do not want all these foreigners here; changing our home town to meet their needs, when many of our needs are not being met! If the Nashville center wants them; then they should keep them and care for them! We have too many nationalities here now, and our officials need to put a stop to this!
"The Good Ole Bush Boys" "Devils", "The People" wanted him, crooked devil that he is, so they got him. Now look what ALL IS HAPPENING. And don't think it is not going to get worst, because it is. "The Damage Is Already Done."
Bush, Clinton, Bush...
Head um up & move um out. We've got enough problems with our own without adding gas to the fire.
500?? Yea right, there are a lot more than 500.
The natural born American citizen is probably the most discriminated person in this country when it comes to services and getting help in a time of need. We can't even help Katrina victims properly but yet we can bend over backwards for people who were brought here from another country and dropped off without our consent.
You Have got to be kidding me!!!!
Charity starts at home,not the new country invading us.
Did you know one of the Tyson plants has shut down and they are bringing in 50 more samalians.More American jobs GONE!!!!!
Do you realize how many of our elderly have to do without meds and wrap in blankets because they can't afford the heat and their social security checks of next to nothing over qualifies them for assistance!
This town is over populated now,building of new schools is having to be done to accomodate the new comers,but they live at Davis Estates and other apartments and do not pay city/county taxes to help pay for the schools!!!!
WAKE UP PEOPLE
No wonder i could not get any help this winter on a 507.43 Power bill I got in Jan. Every place I was told to call I was told NO there is no help here or NO we have no extra fund's to help you.I was not tring to get anyone to pay the whole bill only to help me so i would have extra money to pay my rent and my phone bill or to buy food. But by the grace of God i got the bill paid myself and just cut back on our food for the month and did not get 2 of my med's so the power and the rent and phone and insurance got paid.Us locals who pay our taxes here and have our taxes taken out of our pay check and do not get our babies paid for free can not get help any place when we may need it. but then we have no say so over any thing here. Us locals are the little ones here. We do not come 1st here any more.All our local stores for us are being closed and THEIR store's are being put there.