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 Terry Looper holds up a pair of jeans for discussion at Thursday's school board meeting. (T-G Photo by Sadie Fowler) [Click to enlarge] [Order this photo] |
"We feel like it's going good," Looper said. School board members who've visited the schools immediately jumped on board to say they think students look much better.
"I sense a whole different atmosphere," said superintendent Ed Gray, stating that students seem calmer and quieter.
Since schools opened two weeks ago, however, controversy has been raised over numerous aspects of the dress code. One grandparent contacted the Times-Gazette earlier this week to share her concerns over embellished jeans, which are prohibited, according to the dress code.
"(My grandson) was placed in ISS (in school suspension) for about an hour until his mother was summoned from teaching class at another school to come to his school," said Ann Hambrick, who said her grandson got in trouble over a very small fabric glitch. "She then had to travel to another town to get some more clothing and return to his school for him to change, then return to the school in which she was teaching."
Embellished jeans
Thursday night, the school board addressed their concerns and the concerns of parents. Controversial items in the code include embellished jeans, which Looper said have posed the most problems.
Some jeans are faded or have factory glitches, like Hambrick's grandson's jeans, and some have patches. Some board members, like Amy Martin, favored lightening up on the policy, for jeans that may be a little faded or patched due to wear.
"That is because somebody is trying to get by with what they have," Martin said, acknowledging also that low rise jeans, another issue for girls that was brought up by Looper as posing some issues, are what stores are selling these days.
But Chairman Barry Cooper quickly proved that not all board members were necessarily in agreement with lightening up on the policy.
"We added jeans (to the dress code) as a compromise at the last minute," he said. "We want to make jeans work, but they're going to have to work with us."
Cooper also said for girls having trouble finding jeans that are not too low or not embellished, the option to wear khakis is a viable one.
Consistency
Board members have heard from parents, on both sides of the issue, and another complaint of one parent was that her child wore the same pair of jeans to school four days in a row and they were fine, until the fourth day, when the child was sent to ISS.
Gray said he wanted the dress code strictly enforced as it is written.
"I want consistency in each school, and I want consistency from school to school," Gray said.
Other issues that were brought up included whether the dress code applies to buses (it does), length of skirts (Looper said "finger tip length," as the code states to be the rule of thumb, is too short on some girls), boot-cut jeans with slits on the bottoms, game day jerseys and sagging jeans.
"We're still trying to knock that out," said Looper, adding that overall, most of the issues are being corrected, they just need a little fine tuning.
Has learning increased?
Glenn Forsee chimed in to ask a question that has been on a lot of parents' minds. Has the dress code increased student productivity and learning?
Most agreed that two weeks was not a long enough period of time to determine an answer for that.
"I worry about kids being in ISS when parents can't make it there" to give them new clothes. "I'm just being honest," Looper said.
Fair Haven Baptist Church donated clothes to the schools to be used for children whose parents can't make it in to replace clothes that are not in compliance, and this has been helpful, said Looper, noting that there are plenty of shirts but they need more pants.
"Do we need to do something to help?" asked Dixie Parker.
According to Looper, the bottom line is that things are going well and the schools are meeting their goals, working through glitches and fine-tuning enforcement. The board left it up to Looper to use his best judgment with how to enforce the policy for jeans; however, they urged him to tightly follow the code to the best of his ability.
It was also noted by Looper that Somali students, overall, are trying to comply with the dress code. The girls are wearing long skirts, polo-type shirts and head wraps that are solid colors. No boys have been out of compliance.
Creativity is still evident
Creativity has not been diminished with the dress code, according to board members.
Diane Neeley has visited several schools and said, "I thought the kids looked great ... and none of them looked the same." Though still unique, she said she felt the dress code had leveled out the playing field among students who come from varying financial backgrounds.
Regarding creativity, Gray brought a little humor to the meeting by giving the board an example of one student who, in years prior, showed his individuality by dressing in "Goth" style clothing, with his hair spiked high.
Now, this individual is wearing a shirt and tie, with neat hair, every day so he can stand out, said Gray.
Teachers
The board also discussed the dress of teachers and said they've heard some parents complain that they're not in compliance with the dress code.
"When I walk into the school I want to see a difference in a teacher and a student," said board member Amy Martin, with the board stating that 95 percent of the teachers dress acceptably.
"I hope teachers remember that they are professionals and are there to set examples," she said.
A change of heart
Of the great amount of feedback the board has received, the majority of it has been positive, they say. Even parents who were originally against the dress code, like Tammy Cantrell, have found some good in it.
Cantrell had concerns over affordability, and felt the code violated kids' rights to express themselves.
"It is actually more affordable than I thought," she told the T-G. "It makes deciding what to wear a lot easier."
Board member Dixie Parker said, "I have had several parents who have wanted to thank the board and I have heard from several who wish we were even stricter."
Chairman Barry Cooper thanked the administrators for enforcing the dress code and said they're making progress.
"It will get smoother if we stay after it," he said.
The board also made clear that the dress code is not the only thing they're trying to do to improve learning in the schools.
"We have many other things we're working toward," said Neeley, noting that improving test scores was a primary goal. "This is only one thing and I don't want the public to think this is all we're doing."
UPCOMING IN THE T-G
Look for more coverage of the Board of Education meeting, including a building program update, in Sunday's edition of the Times-Gazette.
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I'll be the one to protect you from your enemies and all your demons
I'll be the one to protect you from a will to survive and a voice of reason
I'll be the one to protect you from your enemies and your choices son
They're one in the same, I must isolate you...
Isolate and save you from yourself ...
When I went to the meetings, it was stated there would be a 10 day period where there would be "tolerance". That was not the case, instead there was in school suspension immediately. This is all smoke and mirrors to take off the attention that the education is not happening like it should be at the schools. All power is taken out of the teachers hands and placed within a board that has no idea what they are doing.
Ok, I have been waiting for this so I can comment on it!!!!! The very first day of school I was one of the parent's that had to leave work to take my child a belt to school. I am fortunate enough to work in a position that allowed me to do so, but my child came home telling me that at least 30 students had to spend their first day of school in ISS. My child also says that they go around every day and check to make sure they are wearing appropriate clothing. I don't have a problem with the dress code itself, but I think there should have been an adjustment period for the first few days, maybe even up until the horse show with notes being sent home or something to that effect saying "your child is in violation of the dress code for this reason......" and then after horse show break start the "lineup". I also think that the teachers should be made to follow the dress code. Amy Martin says she likes to be able to tell the students from the teachers, well give them a color that is not a student color to wear. I personally can tell the difference between a 20-60 something year old and a 12 year old.
I don't see how the school board can say that this has increased learning and productivity. I know a kid that spent 20 minutes of first period in the office looking at tapes of the day before because the bus person said she had an inappropriate shirt the day before. Which it turns out she did not. She was dressed fine. How does that help?
"I sense a whole different atmosphere," said superintendent Ed Gray, stating that students seem calmer and quieter.
Really?
I never knew the miracle salve to "calm and quiet" the masses would come packaged in collared shirts in approved colors.
Are we to believe the sole reason the school system is rife with problems stem from teenage fashion?
I guess to believe that, we should all subscribe to the concept that the schools test scores will improve by requiring all students to wear pocket protectors and argyle socks.
Classroom time being spent checking to see what each student is wearing..makes classes very short. This is done in the first 3 classes every morning. I hope your child does not have any important classes in the morning hours because there is very little class time left over after the dress code check.
Also why don't you go interview some of the students that are actually having to deal with this dress code issue on a day to day bases instead of talking just to the promoters of the dress code?
Talk to some of the parents whose children have been placed in ISS who have Never been in trouble their entire school life and ask them why their child was placed in ISS .
Based on a reader comment, I wanted to clarify that the school board did not say learning and productivity had increased based on the dress code. That question was raised, and they agreed that not enough time had passed by to make that determination.
Sadie Fowler
Times-Gazette
Cooper also said for girls having trouble finding jeans that are not too low or not embellished, the option to wear khakis is a viable one.
Viable for who??? Not all I can assure you.
I seriously doubt that Mr. Cooper would have any more luck finding pants for one of my daughters than I have. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a pair of pants (any kind) that will fit a teenage girl under 5ft. with a bubble butt?
I agree that they should interview students and get their thoughts and print them in the TG. Not only the ones that make it sound so great either. I would love to know how many school board members have school aged children that the dress code affects. Has anyone else had their children tell them how much of class time it is taking away from them that is being spent checking to make sure they are dressed appropriately? I am curious to see if it is being enforced as much in other schools as it is at some of the ones I have heard about.
I was not a supporter of the dress code when it first went into effect. Even so, I have to say that the students look very nice. No, I do not agree that the dress code will make our kids any smarter. That simply rests in each child's individual ability, home support, and environment. Rest assured, test scores will not improve because a student has on a certian outfit, but the students do like nice while learning.
First off let me start by saying I am not completely opposed to the dress code I do understand why it is effect. I have to blame alot of it on the parents who let their kids go to school dressed the way they were. I have always been on top of both of mine about how they dressed for school.
But I have to agree with Disgusted. I have a daughter who is evidently a "common size" because we spent a whole weekend at Cool Springs trying to find dress code approved clothes. We managed to find 2 pr khaki 1 pr navy, and jeans(in black and blue). Couldn't find shorts or capris.
I thought our walmart was supposed to get dress code approved clothes in. Yes they had plenty of polos but we couldn't buy them because they were striped or the logo was over 2 inches.
As far as the issue of the low rise jeans, Mr. Looper can come shopping with me for a day and let him show me where do you find junior jeans or khakis that aren't low rise. Same as shorts, the "In Style" are the shorter shorts, we looked everywhere last year for school shorts and ended up having to buy basketball style shorts just so she could wear shorts to school. Oh yeah she can't wear athletic shorts this year.
I have another issue our kids were told that if they have last period gym they have to change clothes, fine if the dress code applies to bus riders but my child is a car rider always has been, what about the days she has practice at 3:30, she has to change to wait 10 minutes to go change again for practice? They were told if they were caught out of uniform in the hall they would get into trouble. Kinda crazy don't you think? Her resolution for this was she puts her clothes over her gym clothes. I am waiting for them to start checking that as well.
There are alot of grey areas in the dress code, I feel that talking to school administration and faculty and let them voice their opinions, alot of staff members are scared to voice their opinions due to endangering their job. It is easy to sit back in board of education office and assume you know what is best for the schools, talk to the ones in the school daily with the students, without them feeling their job is threatened.
titansfan
So far a great deal of time has been wasted. A belt checks two days in a row! A student was sent to the office 1st period and OK'ed by the Assistant Principal only to be sent back 4th period by another teacher and given detention. Talk about inconsistant...
As for the Board of Educations feedback from parents... I anxiously wait to hear the response to a letter they and the TG got from a parent this week!
I'd like the school bored members to try finding khaki's that don't have "cargo" pockets on them...same with the "right" color of jeans. I guess we all need to go to Tractor supply and buy Wranglers (dark) or shell out $30+ for Levi's. Everyone I have talked to has had problems finding clothes. My neighbor has even had clothes shipped from family elsewhere because she cannot find pants around here. I started watching Walmart for clothes 3 months ago and very little every showed up. They're still carrying the "short shirts" and the "short shorts"! If someone's going to "sneak" a gun into school in a cargo pocket, wouldn't they just put it in their backpack, like the kid did in Knoxville the other day. God forbid that happens, but at what point do we take back our rights. When the school bored gives my child the $13,000 education they are paid to, then maybe I'll not mind the clothes issue. Shoot, they brought home their first "fundraiser-discount card" the first day of school!! You can bet that went right back to school! I'm also tired of the slant ("it's going great") news and how about having some "opposing" views. Oh yeah, that would go against the school bored views. Just like everything in this town..."good ole' boy system."
THE CHILDREN SEEM TO BE THE ENEMIES HERE - THESE BOARD MEMBERS AND THE SUPPORTING TEACHERS/PARENTS SEEM TO HAVE A COMMON THREAT THE COMING GENERATION OF HUMAN BEINGS. SOME SAY ITS THE PARENTS FAULT - SOME SAY ITS THE SCHOOL BOARDS FAULT. WHILE THIS GOES ON OUR CHILDREN CONTINUE TO SUFFER. THEY ARE THE ONES BEING SENT TO ISS NOT US. THEY ARE THE ONES BEING TREATED LIKE CRIMINALS.(AND IF NOT ALL THE BOARD MEMBERS OR ALL THE TEACHERS OR ALL THE PARENTS ARE THE ONES BEING WRONG - SO IT GOES FOR OUR CHILDREN - THAT IS STEREOTYPING) WE AS ADULTS NEED TO TEACH THEM LOVE AND COMPASSION - NO - MERCY (THE SAME MERCY WE AS ADULTS LOOK FOR). THEY LEARN WHAT THEY ARE TAUGHT. LOOKS LIKE A LOT OF US ADULTS NEED TO BE TOLD WHAT TO WEAR - WE ARE NOT USING OUR JUDGEMENT ANY BETTER THAN THE CHILDREN ARE - THE ONLY BAD JUDGEMENT THEY HAVE IS IN CLOTHING. THE ADULTS HAVEN'T LEARNED ANYTHING ABOUT LIFE AND WHAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO GET OUT OF IT.
At first I was totally against the dress code. I do agree that the chidren do look much nicer. But I also know how hard it is the find the correct pants. Also why does it matter what color shirt you have on or if its solid colored or not. A collared buttoned shirt is a collared button shirt no matter what color. I think if the board gave a little on the jeans everyone would be a little happier.
If I read correctly it said 95% of teachers dress appropriately. What is the punishment for the 5% that do not. ISS or suspension. Remember we must be consistent across the board! Plus, I personally like the way the kids look too, but I am sure my parents did not like how I dressed when I was in school. Guess what I do pretty good as a productive citzen in society. I guess the way I dressed in school did not affect that much. Go figure....
I agree with you Band Mom but it is not just the girls that have issues it is the boys as well. Do any of the board members know how hard it is to find shorts that do not have any style of cargo pocket on them. It is not easy trust me. We also spent a weekend trying to find shorts that would work. My son was telling me about the belt checks that are being done and I have also heard about class time being taken up by having a dress code check done in the classrooms. Is this not as much of a disruption as some of the so called bad choices in clothes? If the teachers are having to do this then the school board should have left the origial dress code policy in effect and enforce it. Same difference same amount of disruptions. I have a feeling that maybe some of the board members went out and took a look at the syle of clothes being offered and wrote the dress code so that it would eliminate the kids wearing shorts and various other types of clothing. Kudos to Amy Martin for at least understanding that jeans do fade and patches may have to be used for families that are less fortunate than others. Alot of these kids have gone to school for years together and it had already been established as to who had money and who didn't and it hasn't seemed to affect their friendships at all but I find it quite funny that Mr. Cooper thinks that it puts everyone on the same playing field by being dressed alike. So maybe he is the one that is concerned about looks and money rather than the kids.
Shouldn't Terry Looper's statement be 'we feel like it is going WELL'? 'Good' would be an adjective and 'well' is the necessary adverb.
Does anyone know if there is a minimum education requirement for those running for school board? I ask out of curiosity because many of these people seem dumb as dirt? Is this position paid?
I am also willing to bet these people are not professional educators (but with education being such an easy major these days, that title may not mean much anymore).
Also I found Barry Cooper's tone to be rather antagonistic. He speaks as if the county should be willing to toe whatever line the board asks.
ya'll all dress your kids like little robots and get along now, big brother is watching....... As far as the proper english is concerned, maybe a good dress code would have helped.
gottago,
Barry has always been like that, he is confrontational, hides behind the board table, and will call out of order if you don't agree. He sets time limits on speakers but doesn't set those limits for himself. Pretty ridiculous, it is all lies to hide the fact that their decisions have basically destroyed any hope of our children getting a good education.
Go back to sleep everyone... the school board has everything under control.
Yea Boy, Education is such an easy major everybody should be teachers not only an easy major but the pay is so great also and the benefits just fantastic.
Not only that but being a teacher you get to deal with parents whose children are only angels and already know everything there is to know about every subject. You are provided daily guidance through our wonderful state department, telling you what you can teach and what you can't teach.
You get to enjoy the pleasures of children being mainstreamed into your classroom who should never have been in a normal classroom. You can learn a second language from children who speak no English.
So yea Everybody run out and get that teaching degree and spend $60,000 for four years of college when you will only make $35,000. Of course you only work 9 months out of the year but of course nobody ever counts all the in-service work or staff development days or having to come in to work ballgames and fundraisers or all the extra summer hours you must put in getting ready for the next school year. (that's all suppose to be done free because you love your job so much)
Oh and don't forget now they get to be the fashion police too!!
Barry Cooper should try to buy clothes on my salary instead of his. And it is almost impossible to find jeans not faded. If they are faded without holes and frays whats the problem light blue is worse than dark blue. When the shirts fade must we throw them out too. If people patched their pants and that is the best they can do who are you to judge them. We have too many high and mighty's who think they are better than everyone else who make up the school board. I disagree with the baggy pants and low cut shirts myself but come on you are going nuts with this.
I know I had to go to 4 different stores--cheap and expensive and out of town to find enough in the right sizes in the colors that my child asked for.
I also wonder how many kids are getting sent to the office who didn't get sent before or how many of the kids who were always in trouble are still in trouble.
Also, how much time are the teachers having to spend to make sure they are consistent. It is amusing (not to the student) about wearing the same jeans everyday and getting in trouble on the 5th. That is one of the problems with trying to enforce a strict code.
I am also still unsure about what constitutes an 'embellishment'. Are they talking about minor defects in the material? That is almost unavoidable in any material.
How is it the school bored has no clue as to the struggles parents are having on finding these clothes? We were told there would be PLENTY of inventory at all local stores. Hmmm, where is all that inventory? Why are we having to travel out of town (taking our money away from local businesses) to TRY to find clothes that won't land our kids in ISS? This is so stinkin rediculous! How much work was done in these 8 days? I can pretty much guarantee you can figure out the answer to that question! Why don't we just follow a prep school dress code. Plaid/navy skirts, navy knee length shorts and white collered shirts. Plain and simple. If their are so bent on a dress code...it's kinda hard to screw that up. So, School Bored...what's next on your list to screw up, because the dress code is sure working with kids/parents!
I think that "looking nice" is so subjective, that there's no way to really regulate it. I personally see nothing wrong with boot-cut jeans with the side slit (as long as they aren't sagging), or faded jeans, or striped polos....
I think if the school board wanted to impose school uniforms, they should be just that- uniforms. I think it should be all or nothing.
Otherwise, you have the kind of mess that we're stuck with now. Sending the same child to the office twice in one day, with two entirely different outcomes is just completely ridiculous.
I also don't understand the daily, mandatory belt-checks. Why can't you just stop the random kid who's pants are falling down and check them? Is it really necessary to force everyone to endure a belt-check?
It just seems silly to me. It's a waste of everyone's time and it seems to me that the teachers already have enough to contend with as it is.
It does not take very long to check students for dress code compliance. Teachers can check students as they enter the classroom. It is also easy to check during the morning announcements.
I think that the new dress code is absolutely ridiculous. We are grown adults and perfectly capable of determining how are children should dress. We do not need the school board to tell us what looks nice. I agree that looking nice is extremely subjective. We do not all agree. And as parents, we do not need the school board to tell us how to dress our children.
This is unfair for every party involved. Teachers should not be put in the role of constantly making sure that children are dressed according to code. They are having to waste valuable teaching time in order to police the dress code policy. I cannot believe all of the time and energy that that is being wasted because of this so called "wonderful" dress code. It is unfortunate for the teachers and more importantly, unfortunate for the children. Children who have never stepped foot into the principals office are now getting ISS. Does the school board not recognize the concerns here? Now the administration is enforcing the dress code, however if it would have been enforced in the past this would not be a concern.
I still have no understanding behind the reason for this dress code. Some say it is to lessen the gap for those less fortunate and make everyone equal. Those who buy name brand clothing will still continue to do this. And the students know which name brand polo style shirt, jeans, and shoes cost more. Not to mention the fact that parents drive different priced vehicles and live in more expensive homes. This concept of being on level playing fields is insane.
I hope that the school board will readdress the dress code this year. This time they need to listen to the parents and not make a decision that they feel is best for our children without a unanimous decision from the parents. We are the parents and we know how to take care of our children and what is in their best interests. I do not need anyone else telling me what is best for my child and certainly how to dress my child appropriately.
Maybe the school board did not say in this article that learning and productivity was up, but that was one of the reasons they gave for passing the dress code. Also could the teachers and principals not have given a little time to get adjusted before giving ISS? My daughter has never been in any trouble before but got a warning for a shirt that had a belt that was not an approved color. If I had know the shirt was not dress code we would not have bought it, because she sure as heck is not going to where it anywhere else. I don't recall anywhere in the dress code about accessories having to be the approved colors. Now if another of the shirts that I bought thinking that it would be ok isn't she will get ISS.
I have a GREAT way to keep these kids out of ISS... FOLLOW YHE RULES! The schools sent flyers home with all of the kids and the dress code was in the newspaper. How can anyone say they didn't know the policy?
If parents had not let their children go to school dressed like idiots then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
For all of the violators... forget ISS and just bust their rear end and they become FAST learners.
Oh yeah I almost forgot... HA HA HA I think its funny!
Thing is not all children were disregarding the old dress code, seedsower. But they all have to abide by the new dress code just the same. The children seem to be trying to abide by this new code but when belts socks undershirts and even shoes must meet a certain criteria it makes for a difficult situation for all.
I don't see how you feel you could just glance at a room full of kids and see what color their undershirt or socks are or if their shoes flop or make sure their jeans have no embellishments on them or if they have belts on or that their shirt only comes 6 inches below the belt line.
Like any of the above amounts to a hill of beans except it is taking away from classroom time for teachers to have to check every child.
You think Bedford County Schools have been failing our children in education in the past, just wait!
I have not been a fan of the dress code from the beginning but I took my daughter to murf and bought what she needed to get by and just sucked it up. A week before school started we found out about a family struggling with two kids who had no school clothes so we made a trip to wal-mart. What a joke that was, striped polos for boys everywhere but no solids in the right size and colors. We could have bought complete wardrobes for a little of nothing due to the sales on t-shirts but walked away with 2 polos (one that was too big).Some people don't even have a car to get to murf. I would be interested in how this affects the high school drop outs. We have given the poor children one more reason not to attend school... Maybe that was the point, to weed them out.
I bought all of my son's polos at Wal-Mart in Shelbyville throughout the summer for only $5 each.
The majority of kids are doing a fabulous job. The students do look great! They even hold their heads higher when told how good they look.
If the Times Gazette was more about OBJECTIVE points of views and the WHOLE story, then they would have allowed more parents to comment.
This is ABSOLUTELY laughable.. I once had faith in our school board members, in fact they chose ME to represent this county in many different SCOPE conventions.. What an absolute joke you people have become. Meanwhile, I haven't read the story on what they plan on doing about the two failing school systems? Hmm, maybe we should paint the entire school in appropriate colors (no stripes please), and PLEASE no faded material, and then the schools will start churning out quality results.
How does an education improve when you sit in ISS for clothing that is NOT inappropriate, but not up to par with Army standards.... School isn't in business to be teaching fashion, because if it resembles their success in education, they have failed miserably.
Barry Cooper,
Just because you are the Chair of the board, doesn't mean everyone has to work with you on something. This is a referendum your board passed at the objection of the MAJORITY of those whom you sought advice. Since you didn't find it necessary to work with them, why on earth should anyone want to work with you?
For all of the violators... forget ISS and just bust their rear end and they become FAST learners.
-- Posted by seedsower on Fri, Aug 22, 2008, at 8:01 PM
Apparently it didn't teach you a thing...
I believe it is extremely unfair for those of you who are making personal attacks on Barry Cooper & other board members, when I doubt that you actually know any of them. A difference of opinion on a subject like this is to be expected, but there are right & wrong ways to handle things. I firmly believe that the school board members legitimately care about the students of Bedford County, and are trying to do what is right for them. If you really knew Barry or any of the board members personally, you would realize this very quickly.
And to Thatsmystory, was it really necessary to bring up Mr. Cooper's salary? That is quite irrelevant to this subject if you ask me.
im just sayin--I looked several times over the summer in town and they did not carry all the sizes in enough volume to accommodate even though we were repeatedly told by our school superintendent and the school board that they would be abundant and cheap!!!
If it's so easy to check and they are wearing their shirts untucked per code, then how can a teacher know if they are wearing their undershirt tucked in or if they have a belt? They have to ask them to pull up their shirt to see!!!! Is that what they are doing? That's ridiculous and totally unnecessary and demeaning and I think they will end up with a lawsuit if the wrong kid gets punished. What color is the belt supposed to be?
I just reviewed the dress code and I didn't see anything about specific colors for belts. I guess they have to be the same as the shirt colors. That would also mean that jewelry, purses, backpacks, shoes,........????
I also saw the terms "excessively stressed or frayed" for jeans so that would mean a judgement call. Clothes will show wear and tear. Does that mean that as soon as the jean bottoms--even though appropriate length--begin to wear on the bottom that new ones will have to be bought??? I thought this dress code was supposed to be cheaper.
I don't see low riders as being the same as sagging because they actually do fit, just not at the waist. The crotch is not too big.
I have been a teacher for over 20 years. I have taught students who wore uniforms and students who were allowed to wear whatever they chose to wear, as long as they were decently attired. I have had students with military style haircuts and students with afros, mohawks, fades, spikes and fantastic colors. I have had students with skin art, multiple piercings, Goth makeup and bizarre contact lenses.
The appearance of my students has never impaired my ability to teach them.
I was raised to judge people by "the content of their character" not by their appearance.
Now students and teachers in our system are being judged by their appearance and their conformity to a "standard" of attire.
I have spent countless hours over the last five decades in classrooms and lecture halls being bored stiff by someone dressed "professionally."
Many of the most interesting and energizing classes and lectures I have attended were presented by men or women in casual dress, some even in shorts and t-shirts.
I have been told to enforce this dress code, whether I agree with it or not. I have been told not to voice my opinion to my students or to parents. I have been told that I must dress more "professionally" in order to gain the respect of administrators, staff, parents and students.
In a country where free speech and the rights of the individual are purported to be of great importance, it is disheartening to realize that the board of our local education system deems that these rights no longer apply to teachers and students.
Excellent post teacher2 !
Thank you!
Have any of you stopped and thought that perhaps the school board is trying to protect children from becoming victims of inadvertent gang violence? MS 13 is quite prevalent in Shelbyville. We all know they're out there like a big pink elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about, and they (just like any gang) have certain "colors" and "styles". So, the board members should be applauded for taking initiative on quelling this before it gets worse. These men and women care about our kids and should not be personally attacked for that. I'm sorry if you feel like your child is losing his/her individualism, but isn't that better than them losing their life? Furthermore, there are many other ways for kids to express their individuality other than through clothing. Yeah, it might cost a fraction more, but it's worth it in the long run.
Teacher2 - Thank you so much for your contribution to this discussion. I've been very anxious to hear a teacher's opinion on this subject, since I haven't really heard any before now.
As for the belt situation- I asked my child (who attends SCHS) and she assures me that they haven't been informed of any color restrictions on the belts. As long as it is properly threaded through the belt loops and isn't considered dangerous (spikes, dangling chains, etc) then its acceptable. According to her homeroom teacher, they can even be striped.
As far as gang colors go, I'm fairly positive that that isn't the reason for the dress code.
I say this because, my understanding is that the student council at each school actually voted on the colors. At least the ones at SCHS did.
If they were instructed to disallow certain colors from the vote, I'm not aware of it.
Molight,
Then why did the School board pick the gang colors for the shirts?:) Your ideals are not warranted and almost laughable.
Let us all change our way of life because of thugs and terrorists. Why do you think that wearing certain clothes or colors is going to protect your child from gang violence? Stop getting all your information on gangs from "Law and Order" episodes. If your child opens their mouth and says something foul to the wrong person, i would be willing to bet that they will get a beat down regardless of the color they are wearing. I would also be willing to bet that 99.9% of all fights in school got started for reasons other than the color of shirt a student had on.
This whole business of a dress code is more about conservatism and has nothing to do whatsoever with education or safety. I say this because it is fairly obvious that neither education or safety in a classroom are directly related to the clothes that one wears.
Your ideals are not warranted and almost laughable.
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sat, Aug 23, 2008, at 11:51 AM
I know I had a good laugh Evil Monkey!
My daughter is very uncomfortable with a male figure asking her lift her shirt to see her belt. If children do not have a visual issue with their pants falling down I think it is going a little too far. She worrys every morning on the way to school about having to lift her shirt up to show she is wearing a belt. If they ask her and she says she has one on then lets trust our students. We are way out of line with this inspection issue every morning. We need to worry about the school scores.
Belts do not have to be a certain color but I know of a parent that had to take her son a different pair of socks. Whatsup with that? Nothing is said about sock color in the dress code. Are some schools and or teachers and principals taking it to the extreme?
My 13 year old son hated the idea of a dress code. He still wouldn't choose the code, but he says it's really no big deal.
Polo shirt, jeans, belt--makes his morning pretty easy.
At Cascade, the student body voted for the colors. (not the student council)
They chose well the colors are: red, white, blue, black, and gray.
As a student at SCHS, I personally don't like the dress code. They are being a little too strict. It shouldn't matter what color your polo is as long as you have one on or what you're pants look like. I've had to call my dad twice to bring me clothes because they weren't in "dress code." So he has to stop whatever he is doing at work, just to bring me the "right" thing to wear at school. And it really gets frustrating. It really doesn't effect your eduaction neither. It only makes you look like you came to get an education. Students are only going to learn if they want to. CLOTHES DO NOT CHANGE THAT. Another big deal are the pants/shorts. They rarely make pants without some kind of design on them or they are not faded-looking. And in my case, I had to buy a whole new set of pants JUST FOR SCHOOL. And most of them are still not school appropriate. They are either too long, they don't fit right, they are faded, or they have designs on them. the same goes for the polos. What difference does it really make about what your pants look like? Can't us students be comfortable too? And with the belt situation, If your pants fit well enough, do you really have to wear a belt just because your pants have belt loops? And about gang violence.... There's is nothing you can do to stop that. You can still bring a weapon to school no matter what you are wearing. It's that simple. And students can still rep their gang in or out of school. You still have two of the main gang colors that you can wear. So what is really protecting MoLight? (no disrespect or anything)But what if your family doesn't have a fraction of more money to spend on clothes? Have you thought about that? And I strongly do not like the fact that we have to raise up our shirts just so the teachers can see if we have a belt on, or to see if we have an undershirt tucked in, that also has to be in dress code color. That's a little perverted don't you think? Students have to be placed in ISS, sent home, or call a parent to bring you something that is school appropriate. It takes away our and others time, when it's not even that big of a deal. And it seems like something changes about the dress code everyday. People are going to do what they want no matter what you TRY to do to help. Students are still going to fight, argue, and do whatever else they please. You can't help them unless they want to be helped. In my opinion, I think we're better off without the dress code. It's a waste of time and money. It's not helping education, so why even bother?
Mr. Looper said "somebody wants to get by with what they have". They apparently do not live in the real world. Is not everything going up in prices and not the income. Well sometimes Mr. Looper we have to get by with what we have. Its not my fault you sit there and have nothing to do so you try to make us as parents a little more extra work. Just because you have the money doesn't mean everyone else does. Even if we have a dress code its still not going to stop anything. It will be something else. It will now be who's got what name brand shoe. Its a endless cycle. We just teach our children the way we think is right. Making them where a certain shirt and color does nothing but make them rebel more. I thought we were in a free country. I guess not. Just because they are kids doesn't mean they can't have some freedom.
I think if they were going to have a dress code,it should of been everyone should have to follow it. (School staff and all the grades)
And I think getting I S S for not wearing the dress code is absurd.My children will just have to go to I S S. Because what they wear is what we can afford.
When there is so many other reasons to sit in I S S .It's no wonder the education system is scoring such low grades.And the drop out rate is so high.Instead of worring about the childrens grades,they worry about the fabric of childrens clothing.(maybe if we were to slap a picture of a: Tn Walking Horse,a Tyson chicken or a Pencil.Then everything would be fine.Seems to be that is what Bedford County is made of)
I wonder if a teacher had to wear the same dress code, if they'd get I S S for not wearing the exact type of fabric????
Everyone or no one for the dress code!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*I thought we as Americans had "Freedom Of Choice?
How can we expect our children of today be the leaders of tomorrow.If they have to be told what to wear, where to go and how to do it.They need to be able to make choices of their own.
Some people might not look good in the exact same style. It's not like one size fits all. It might fit some.We want our children to want to go to school to learn. And when one has to worry about the clothes not fitting right or making them look bigger and not comfortable.Kids making fun of them. Thats not fair.
When elections come around again,we need to take a good look to see who really are there with our childrens best interests.
And to the parent who had to leave a job to bring different clothes. What I have to say to you is: You are a better person then I am. Because I would not of done it.And as long as you do it, NOTHING will ever change...................
Parents--
If you do not want your kids to undergo this rigorous and timely procedure every day until they graduate, then you need to be outside the super's office everyday until it stops.
Teachers--
There is no reason for this inspection process and, if I were a 6+ teacher, I would refuse to do it unless I thought a child was a threat to other students!!!
I can't believe you teachers are going along with this kind of inspection. Send them to the office if you think they are breaking the code--
then call one of the school board members to leave their job and come inspect!!!!
First I will say that I am a teacher in Bedford Co. and I have been reading these comments and I feel that I need to respond. The dress code has gone very well in my classes. I have had no major problems and I can check dress code (belts and all) in less than five mins. I do not think that it is interferring with learning in my classroom at all. As far as belt checks being perverted or demeaning, I don't think so when you consider many young ladies have low cut blouses that show considerable cleavage. I have seen better behavior this year and I think many students are proud of the way that they look. Take into consideration that many of these students will get jobs in which they have to wear certain attire. How many doctors or lawyers come to the office in shorts and a t-shirt. Do you see nurses at work without scrubs on? How about fast food restaurant employees? So to say that people in the work force can wear what they want is absurd. I believe the school board has the best interests of the children in mind and making productive citizens out of them. Is'nt that what education is all about?
I haven't had one fight this year with my child as she headed to school. This is the first time that's ever happened.
The same parents that whine about their having the follow the code are the same parents that try to make excuses for their brat kids when they get into trouble. I've seen the parents who are complaining about the code and frankly, I would be ashamed to show up at my child's school dressed like a street walker.
Maybe you complainers need to look in a mirror each morning and say "Is this how an adult is to look when they go to work?"
In reference to Wheelbillie's comment: "How can we expect our children of today be the leaders of tomorrow.If they have to be told what to wear, where to go and how to do it.They need to be able to make choices of their own." I think you have that wrong Wheelbillie. Leaders of tommorrow must first be taught to follow orders to be effective leaders. A leader must give orders to his followers. In a human's life starting from a young age into adulthood we are given orders. Whether from our parents, boss, law enforcement or government. Thats just life. There are always consequences for not playing by the rules. Thats just life. Any parent who thinks that this dress code is going scar your child or ruin his/her life should be ashamed. At some point, we all have to adapt to something new. The same will happen with the dress code. Everyone will adapt eventually. This is a positive thing. And in response to teacher2's post, you say that you have taught many different types of students and I commend your 20 yrs experience in teaching but in my opinion individuality should be expressed in a student's personality and demeanor rather than the clothes that they wear.
rttr001,
No,leaders need to learn to 'think outside the box'. Your attitude is typical of the many brainwashed, indoctrinated idividuals that enter the educational system.
A strong leader also recognizes a dumb rule or set of rules and works for change. A strong leader also recognizes when weaker leaders are making rules only for control and to compensate for weaknesses and problems that they have no idea how to fix.
Educators, you have bigger problems than what kids wear to school. The failure of the board and some administrators to see such truth just convince me that NONE of you are smart enough to tell ANYONE what to wear.
sameoldstory: I disagree with the dress code but I do not dress like a street walker and neither does my child. I do not have a brat child that stays in trouble either. I have an opinion just like you have an opinion. I think there are pros and cons but overall I disagree.
The same parents that whine about their having the follow the code are the same parents that try to make excuses for their brat kids when they get into trouble. I've seen the parents who are complaining about the code and frankly, I would be ashamed to show up at my child's school dressed like a street walker.
Maybe you complainers need to look in a mirror each morning and say "Is this how an adult is to look when they go to work?"
-- Posted by sameoldstory on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 10:16 AM
I oppose the dress code.
I do not dress like a "street walker" nor would I allow my child to.
Most parents who object to the dress code are the ones who followed the previous dress code without any problems. Being a very active parent at Cascade, I have never, ever, seen any adult or student dress as a "street walker".
The limited, condescending generalization of those who oppose the dress code in your post, convey the same thinking process as the School Board. Limited, and generalized.
gottago,
I agree that we as educators do have bigger problems to fix other than what kids are wearing to school. And I also believe in thinking outside the box in certain situations but when it comes to a town like Shelbyville "thinking outside the box" is not really feasable in the general population. Remember, Shelbyville is basically a small town and the general population tends to have pretty conservative values. As a lifelong resident of this town, I like it that way. Just because a leader or person does not "think outside the box" does not limit them or make them less capable of being a productive citizen. I invite you to spend a week in my classroom and observe the amount of apathy and disdain for authority. It all starts at home and unfortunately a large percentage of students in Bedford Co. do not get the support that they need at home. We as educators have to try and overcome this and do the best we can, but we can only take this so far and without the support of parents it is very difficult. So I don't understand gottago, how do we brainwashed, indoctrinated educators solve this problem? Apparently according to some other comments the school board and administration is a dictatorship intent on ruining the adolescents of this community. Some parents in the community need to step up and support the rules and take a larger role in their children's education.
rttr001,
"Remember, Shelbyville is basically a small town and the general population tends to have pretty conservative values. As a lifelong resident of this town, I like it that way."
You like it that way? Maybe the other 96% don't?
"Just because a leader or person does not "think outside the box" does not limit them or make them less capable of being a productive citizen."
Yes it does, the "But we always done it that way.." mentality has got to go.
"I invite you to spend a week in my classroom and observe the amount of apathy and disdain for authority."
Not only do I accept that offer, I will teach on your behalf.
rttr001,
I will agree that more parents need to take a more active role in their children's education. But I do not agree that they should be more supportive of the rules an unqualified set of morons choose to create.
I do not deny that I have little respect for the education system. Knowing the intellectual level of many that choose to teach (Scholars they are not)and knowing some of the board members and their backgrounds (or lack of), I can not believe these people hold the answers for providing the best possible learning environment for children.
When private schools require that the children wear uniforms, that requirement is part of the plan that parents purchase. By paying the tuition, the family agrees to a set of regulations. That is hardly the case with compulsory education.
I can also tell you I attended a private university that did have some type of dress restriction(no shorts in class, skirts a certain length) and later attended a public one where you may see students in their PJ's. Newsflash! It may no difference in my classroom experience or overall attitude toward learning.
Amen Evil Monkey!!
In response to-- Posted by rttr001 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 11:23 AM
I beg your pardon, but I have also been a teacher for more than 20 years and I have had 2 children go through this system. I totally disagree with your comments and from what I have seen since this code has begun, it is not being enforced in a calm, efficient manner. There have been many students sent to the office and ISS for minor infractions. There are kids being reprimanded who were high achieving students participating in school affairs and programs. They were not disobedient or disrespectful so you can just back off your high horse when you claim that we are all whining because our kids are brats!!!! I raised my kids so that they could go out in the world and make decisions for themselves-not be "ordered" like someone in Russia or China.
What will these kids do when they do get out of school and no longer have you to dictate to them what they can wear or when they can go to the bathroom???????
I have also heard from many students that they are following the code because they fear the consequences and many teachers who have stated that they are also afraid to voice their opinions because of fear-------not RESPECT.
Any time a teacher asks a student to 'lift' their shirt can be questionable.
Evil Monkey,
My comment to you is if you don't like the community in which you live (if you live in Bedford Co.) you're welcome to move.
gottago,
I respectfully understand your comments and I may not totally agree, but as an employee of Bedford Co. Board of Education I will follow orders and do the job in which I am expected. If this involves enforcing a dress code thats what I will do. I agree that student dress does not necessarily relate to learning but I do believe it has helped behavior.
teacherbctn,
First, I never called any kids "brats". And I was just stating the facts about some parents in the community. You as a teacher should know that parent involvement can increase a student's performance in school. And no we are not mistreating the kids by trying to enforce a dress code. When asking to see a belt, I have not seen any skin and no student has seemed uncomfortable. They only need to raise their shirt a fraction to see a belt. Part of enforcing anything is having consequences. If small details are allowed to pass, the larger ones will follow. There must be consistency by each teacher and school for this to be effective. We are doing our job.
teacherbctn,
When I made the statement concerning apathy and disdain for authority in the classroom, I was speaking in general, not concerning the dress code. All students have been cooperative concerning dress code checks.
Does anyone see the stupidity of having to physically see that someone is wearing a belt? If the shirt is covering the top of the pants....
Can the school board be impeached???
Does anyone see the stupidity of having to physically see that someone is wearing a belt? If the shirt is covering the top of the pants....
Can the school board be impeached???
-- Posted by gottago on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 5:26 PM
Each and everyone of them should be! Again, where is the school board when addressing the two failing school systems? Where is the school board when addressing the drop out rate? Where is the school board in addressing QUALIFIED teachers facilitating classroom discussions (i.e. teachers) Where is the school board when we schools need to be updated and the students far outgrow the buildings... Where is our school board certain schools in this county can't participate in some sports because of continual budget shortfalls? Where is the school board when the previous school dress codes were good enough, yet not enforced? Hmm, I guess they were traveling down to Alabama and researching ways to change students' image to compensate for their inability to change some students' desire to achieve.
I think each school board member should be at each school every morning, checking on their much praised dress code. When students get sent to the office because their belt didn't have enough holes, or it is the wrong color, then where is the school board? This is truly laughable but totally expected from a group of folks who's jobs require ONE night a month of their time, meanwhile parents, students, and teachers who object spend the entire year dealing with such stupidity.
The comment that superintendant Ed Gray made about the children being calmer and quieter because of the way they are dressed has got to be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard in my life. I guess being dressed liked Erkel with your pants waist being pulled up to your belly button would make children so embarassed of how they looked that they might not interact with each other as much in fear that they might be made fun of or even worse in which case it "may" seem that they are calmer and quieter. Hey, Ive got an idea...why dont all of Shelbyville go with the new dress code and we can all walk around looking like Erkel or Carl from the movie Slingblade.
The following was taken from an article on this website, dated 8/24.
"The next School Board meeting will be held at 7 p.m. Sept. 18. Gray said the agenda will include a report on what schools are doing to improve low test scores, which landed two Bedford County schools on a statewide "high priority" list."
rttr001,
Excuse me sheeple, But you asked if anyone wanted to sit in, and I accepted. So what time and what school? Oh wait, I guess you changed your mind. Hate to be shown up eh?
Are you saying because I do not like how the school system is run, I should move? Is that what a teacher and/or a school administrator's only answer? If you don't like it, leave? Nice answer. Just as I thought too. Actually, because how the school system is currently being run, I am going to make it my #1 priority to make as difficult on your has made on the kids and parents of this great county.
I hope the school board members read these comments. Reading the dress code policy is like reading your life insurance policy. It is clear as mud. The Dress Code is TOO STRICT...that is the problem plain & simple. There is nothing wrong with having a dress code policy, but make one that is not so strict & complicated that I am not yet totally convinced that anyone really understands.
Please listen to the voices of the community who this is directly affecting. The students, parents, teachers, & principals are the ones that are directly affected by this new policy. Please be more open to good suggestions. For instance, send home an anonymous questionaire for each student, parent, teacher, & principal to give you the feedback you need to make the necessary ammendments for a more proficient & reasonable policy.
We the people of Bedford County are not ever going to all be on the same playing field. God made us all different for very good reasons. We come in all different shapes, sizes, color, & environments. Children cannot support themselves & some are so unfortunate, hard trodden, & burdened that they do good to just arrive at school. Just because a parent is poor, struggling, uneducated and down on their luck does not mean that they are a bad parent. Some children do not have the supervision, love, & support that others are so fortunate to receive. Who's fault is this? Some children do & are still a bad seed. Please take into account how this policy is affecting ALL citizens of Bedford County & remain approachable & open minded.
Thank you Marie the young student for your voice & opinion...and thank you teachers who are always under so much scrutiny from students, parents, peers, & supers who if you stay true to your calling do make a difference in the life of a child. Thank you principals who endure much of the same scrutiny & heat directly from all sides for doing your job of enforcing the rules. Lastly, thank you board members for having our children's best interests at heart. Please remember that you were elected to represent all of us tax paying citizens in your designated districts & we do have a voice that needs to be heard when making these very important decisions & standards.
Respectfully yours,
CHILDREN LEARN WHAT THEY LIVE
If a child lives with criticism. He learns to condemn.
If a child lives with hostility. He learns to fight.
If a child lives with ridicule. He learns to be shy.
If a child lives with shame. He learns to feel guilty.
If a child lives with tolerance. He learns to be patient.
If a child lives with encouragement. He learns confidence.
If a child lives with praise. He learns to appreciate.
If a child lives with fairness. He learns justice.
If a child lives with security. He learns to have faith.
If a child lives with approval. He learns to like himself.
If a child lives with acceptance and friendship. He learns to find LOVE in the world.
"There must be consistency by each teacher and school for this to be effective. We are doing our job.
-- Posted by rttr001 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 5:10 PM "
And why is our two schools on the High Priority list for? Is it because you are doing your job? I didn't think so. So are you a teacher or an administrator? Because you can't seem to make up your mind.
-- Posted by rttr001
You may not have used the term brat but you posted before and after someone who did and you both seem to have the same opinion.
Do you have kids? I'm sorry but as a parent, I decide what is mistreatment and I believe that part of the definition for sexual harassment included making a child feel uncomfortable. You don't know how you are making that child feel and any reference to their body or appearance can be invasive. Evidently you have not dealt with very many sensitive kids.
Some links referring to the legal perspective and controversies:
http://www.aclunc.org/news/press_release...
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2008/au...
http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/26880...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...
and one amusing link(to me anyway):
better get your kids started early!!
http://www.amazon.com/Berenstain-Bears-D...
I find it pathetic that this is what our education system has come to---both as an educator and a parent.
Evil Monkey,
How many classrooms have you observed lately? Whats on paper does not necessarily prove anything. I teach my students the content required by the state and my scores will prove that they learned something. Unfortunately in the NCLB era, teachers and schools are judged by scores. The problem is you can't make the students learn. You can't open up their heads and pour in knowledge. You can guide them and try to motivate them. I know my content area but not every student is as enthusiastic about it as me. Part of a teacher's job is to motivate students with effective lessons and I try my best to accomplish this. So don't slam me personally because of your dissatifaction with the local education system. If you think you can make a difference I welcome you to apply for a job with the board and get in a classroom and I'm not being sarcastic. Oh and you don't have to reply with comments about teacher pay I'm aware of what it is.
The problem is you can't make the students learn. You can't open up their heads and pour in knowledge. You can guide them and try to motivate them.
-- Posted by rttr001 on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 11:01 PM
So, exactly what part of this new dress code makes ANY of that easier? None... Absolutely NONE of those are improved because of a polo shirt, correct color undershirt, belts or perfectly hymned jeans!
rtr001,
"Whats on paper does not necessarily prove anything. I teach my students the content required by the state and my scores will prove that they learned something."
Um, wow, so which is it? I thought it what is on paper doesn't prove anything, yet you teach what is required? And yet you agree with the dress code. Basically it is the sheeple syndrome, as not only are you part of the problem, you are making it worse by enforcing it.
You are scared to lose your job over clothes... Does that just make you want to vomit? How a couple of people can control you with mere threats over your livelihood? Look at the Gestapo way with how they deal with the kids at school?
You have asked me if i have sat in any of the classrooms here? No, The school system is scared I will find something wrong. I am an advocate of fair treatment for ALL people, not just the well to do, like the coopers, the adcocks or the parkers. You see, reality to them is, they don't need to follow the rules as it doesn't apply to them.
How did I slam you? Remember you told me to leave the county, I have no intention. You do not dictate to me what you want me to do, I am NOT one of the Gestapo led children.
After reading the articles posted by teacherbctn and doing a little further research, it appears to me that this issue of school dress codes has already been addressed by the US Supreme Court.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._D...
Listen Evil Monkey, I know you will turn this comment around and take your cheap shots too, but I am speaking for myself and what I do as a teacher in MY classroom. I have a vested interest in the whole school system but I can only control my classroom and what happens in it. And yes I will still support a dress code. If you stepped foot in a school in the last five years and saw what many students were wearing you might agree. Yes, times have changed and only a small amount of students were grossly unfit in their dress. And in these years I saw pajamas worn to school, skirts and shorts that would make Daisy Duke blush, pants and shorts worn so low on the body that String Bean would be jelous. Blouses cut low, spaghetti strap tops. Ripped and torn clothing with enough metal hanging off of them to set off metal detectors across the county. Now don't get me wrong, this was a small percentage, but if this was not addressed this percentage would surely grow. Students basically spend 40 hrs a week at school and that leaves what....more than 70 hrs of time when awake during the rest of the week to wear what thay want. I know you will take your jabs, but just know this, I'm a teacher for the kids and I enjoy being around children or I would'nt be a teacher and furthermore I did not get into education to make lots of money. My best interest is for the children. Maybe the new dress code won't have any lasting effect on test scores as many seem to be arguing and maybe teacher quality is down but take a look at statistics and you will see a shortage of qulified teachers. Honestly we have a big problem with the way education is going in this country, but please lay off of us teachers, most of us are trying.
rttr001,
I am not taking cheap shots, it seems you are trying to do the same thing to people that disagree with you. The problem is the School Board, NOT the teachers. I never said it was the teacher EVER.
Again, there was a dress code in place BEFORE the current one, Why not have that small percentage of students not adhering to that dress code be placed in the same In School Suspension at that time. Now there are more than 100 students in the county in school suspension PER DAY!!! Does that make any sense to you?! Over a belt? or 1 inch too long polo shirt? Come on now. This is absolutely the most incredible display of idiocy and neglect to ratify "some(bad) form" of mindset for equality and learning.
Remember that was the whole point? Placing ALL children on equal footing... Oh and to make a conducive learning environment... So far this has failed miserably and who is paying? The students that you love, and the parents, that love their children whom are students.
There are no excuses, I have stated from the beginning that this exact thing would happen and I was assured it wouldn't. The board lied, they stated there would be a 10 day lead in period where the punishments would not take effect. Do not state I am attacking you personally when I have not, the tactic is childish and unwarranted. You can attack, call me names, do whatever you want, I find it funny.
" Now don't get me wrong, this was a small percentage, but if this was not addressed this percentage would surely grow. "
rttr001 ,
As a teacher in the Bedford County School System, I would truly appreciate your perspective, pertaining to the statement you made above, on the enforcement of the dress code.
You acknowledged that only a small percentage of the student body were defiant in the previous school dress code.
I would like to know if you think it would of been more prudent to enforce the dress code rather than apply a stringent new dress code to the entire Bedford County school system, grades 6-12?
Wouldn't it have been easier to enforce those relatively few fashion disasters than routinely inspect the entire student population on a daily basis?
By the looks of the pictures published (twice) in the TG it does not look as if there is a dress code. TG can you get some better shots of kids that are in dress code. I don't have a dog in the fight but if my kids went to public school I would not be able to figure it out as well.
In Shelbyville, Celebration 2000 is one store that's preparing for an influx of shoppers as the school year draws near.
Article printed 07/01
I knew what the bigger picture was when this article came out, strange that this store has a Martin involved??? I think not! BTW none of the stores in Bedford Co. got any of my money!
My kids don't really mind the dress code, they do mind being and seeing everyone harassed. I really didn't mind buying them all new clothes, I do mind not having a choice about it.
It's a shame that I as well as many others have lots of childrens clothes that other children could benefit from if they could wear them to school. Now that's just pathetic!!!
Some of these comments were so funny, I almost laughed out loud!! Thanks! It's nice to know that I'm not the only one that thinks that the dress code is too strict. I agree with so many of you.
Thanks for the post by Evil Monkey on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 11:05 AM. You said it all!!!!
It would have been so much fairer on everyone if the school leadership and board would have just enforced the previous rules on those very few students who did not follow the rules. Now, most of us had to go out and buy all new clothes. And, it is not true that the "playing field has been leveled out" amount varying financial backgrounds. It is still evident who has plain polo's and who gets their polo's from Hollister.
What is the rule on shoes? I know Cascade lets students wear nice sandals made like flip flops, as long as they are leather or "dressy". But for SCHS, the students are afraid to wear them because they do not want ISS. The code just says, "no flip flops."
As for the comment about checking for belts and undershirts tucked in, I have heard from several high school students that they are asked to raise their outer shirt to confirm that they're wearing an undershirt that is tucked in. This is questionable in my opinion.
Thanks also to the post by: XoXo_notes on Sun, Aug 24, 2008, at 7:22 PM, about the questionnaire.
I agree that a questionnaire would be helpful and it would get the opinions and suggestions of parents, students and teachers. But after reading this article, it doesn't look like the board wants or cares about our opinions.
And I quote XoXo_notes again about the school board -
…."Please remember that you were elected to represent all of us tax paying citizens in your designated districts & we do have a voice that needs to be heard when making these very important decisions & standards."
i think they should lean a little at least on the jeans!!!!!!!!!!!
BTW rttr001,
If you meant "cheapshots" as critical thinking, then yes I guess I am guilty. But, please remember without critical thinking there aren't any leaders. OH WAIT! You don't want that, you want sheeple.
Ok Evil Monkey, you win. Obviously your superior intelligence has outwitted my sheeple thinking. Too bad your opinions are so laced with sarcasm or I might respect some of your opinions. If you disagree and have a valid argument it would benefit you to do so with class instead of the forked tongue method you use to degrade the folks who simply have an honest opinion. And I'm not speaking of just this article alone. I have no idea who you are or whether you even have children who attend Bedford Co. schools. In all my ranting I have only stated my opinion just as you have and I apologize for my statement concerning you moving from this area. Is the dress code perfect?..nope But you can bet that it is not going away so if you want to make your #1 priority to harass anyone who agrees with the dress code.......go for it. I have said my piece and I'm done. Have a wonderful day.
I had the same problems that everyone else did
Child complained....I told her that these were the rules and she will follow them.
Hard to find clothes....yes, but what I found were cheaper than I usually spend. (I spent $100 less on clothes this year)
And for those who think that making a child wear a certain type or color of shirt will effect their "free thinking and individual expression".... If your child needs clothes to express themselves, then your child is going to have ALOT of problems in life.
But guess what.... I still followed the rules and the sky didn't fall in. My daughter is just as creative as she always was. And I don't have to look at some 8th grade girl trying to dress like a "ho" or some boy wearing a shirt that hangs to his knees or pants that show off his boxer shorts.
To those parents who don't like the code. You created the code by letting your son and daughter go to school looking like trash. Get out the mirror and blame yourself.
Actually only the last statement was laced with sarcasm. The rest was all valid fact, not opinion. While I was pretty hard on your in my last statement, I apologize for pushing it with you. I believe you are just one of the many forced into believing what they are doing are for the good of the children. Just mislead.
As for my #1 priority, please re-read my statement. I believe you read that out of context. I am very blunt, and very fair about my observations. I backed off the dress code due to promises made to me, and well those were not kept by the people in charge. Whomever is feeding you bs information about how I react is not giving you the entire book on my motives. So good luck and peace be with you.
sameoldstory,
Sorry, but there are just way too many problems to say it was the parents fault here. If you are stating that I dressed my son or daughter in an unacceptable manner then you are far from the truth. Yet each day HOURS are spent on a dress code, over 100 students are sent to ISS over clothing? Of course these are the same students whom never missed a day of school, got honor roll.
Oh did you hear this? Freshmen and under now have to take the ACT to get a high school diploma. Do you think our schools will be able to pull this off? Our school board has known about this for quite some time, why haven't they not told anyone about this or better yet, PREPARED our children to be about to take this test?
"To those parents who don't like the code. You created the code by letting your son and daughter go to school looking like trash. Get out the mirror and blame yourself."
-- Posted by sameoldstory on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 7:54 PM
Again.....
All parents who object do not dress their children like trash.
I certainly don't.
What your post amplifies, yet again, the harsh attacks on those who have a different opinion than others.
Not to single you out sameoldstory, for your views truly reflect a number a posters, and I am addressing them as well.
If this base level of mudslinging is being taught to our children, no wonder our schools are failing!
Our children need mature role models.
Not parents who feel it necessary to verbally insult other parents
and the children of Bedford County.
To rttr001,
If there is going to be a dress code, then EVERYBODY should have to wear the same clothes stated in the code.K-8th.Not just 6,7 and 8th.
And I see no reason why the employees can't wear the same. And if you are a teacher, then set an example for them. I have gone in to our school on a Friday and some of the teachers are dressed down more then the students.
Then everyone would look alike.If its good enough for the kids, then its good enough for the adults.
Practice what you PREACH.
I have many issues with the dress code, (that I will not state here, as I am sure someone already has) and I took a considerable amount of time and addressed the board with my concerns, to the best of my ability. The way I understand it, the board knew very well that a majority of parents were not supportive of the move. It was, without any doubt, a decision that was railroaded in with the expectations that the "parents would get used to it", in the tone of an authoritative entity that doubts the resources and abilities of their constituents. Why do you think some teachers were so hesitant to speak about it to parents? I am guessing that it was decided that we parents could not get together without the help of sympathetic teachers and force our representatives to vote the will of the people. Well, 9 months later, we see they were right. Even the TG was, to my count, not exactly accurate with its reporting. I went to all the meetings and even the few apparently undecided speakers seemed to show up in the in favor of column. There is a difference between saying "support your board with whatever decision is made" and "I am for it". That is not even including the kids who commented that were brought in by the board, or the couple of teachers who had like opinions who were "encouraged" to attend. I also have suspicions about several speakers attending the meetings, especially the ones who were so concerned about the gangs we have "all over", and the "its coming here, you better be prepared". If I wanted to instill fear and doubt, I could not have found anyone better to do exactly that. I wanted to use my time in the first meeting to point out that instead of worrying about guns carried to school in baggy pants, that statistically in Bedford County, they needed to check teachers purses first. I even called the TG (remember me?) & the Board the day after the first meeting to ask if there could be a ballot for the parents attending who did not get a chance to speak as time was limited. The TG did say "good idea talk to the board", but the School Board said "I dont think so". The Board did not care, does not care, and will not care what a majority of the parents want. I do not know the motivation for the Board, but I have asked. I do know their objectives are not the ones stated clearly by them. Everyone who has researched the subject already pretty well knows that the explanations given are fictitious and in some cases, border on fabrications. Every member of the School board knows it as well. What a joke, but the joke is actually on us. They ran it right by us, not using smoke and mirrors, just brute force and the foresight that we indeed do not even have the will or the means to mount a real fight. I guess we are indeed all sheeple.
I am not discounting the minority who are for the dress code. While I do not agree, you should stick by your ideals. However there is a solid majority of your neighbors who feel differently. I do not know the exact numbers, but no one else does either, remember the School Board did not want that information, for its own use, or for the public to see.
As far as Coach Looper, while I do know that he can be abrupt, I have no complaints, and I do have a compliment. Last year when the schools sent home an order form for "Simply Shirts" with every child, I called and wanted to know who was running Simply Shirts and why the school was promoting a business selling dress attire. He was the unfortunate person that got my call. While he was never able to tell me who the owner was, he got on it (that day) and called me several times to let me know what was going on, as he found out the information. Thank you Mr. Looper, I appreciate the effort.
The parents (and non-parents) who do not like the current situation should organize. There should not have been even 1 Board member running un-opposed and the ones that had a challenger, should have faced a movement instead of a single person running against them.
As far as I am concerned, there has been a line of distinction drawn. It appears to be dividing those that believe the only way to be successful and worthwhile is to be wearing the clothing appropriate for and supportive of, their world views, religions and socio-economic positions, from everyone else that may believe otherwise. I am sorry to be so blunt, but what we are actually telling these kids is that "You know, the preps were right all along. They are the ones we appreciate, and we expect you to model yourselves after them. You Goths and Rap culture emulators and you Pop Star Wanna-Bes really do not have a place and are not appreciated, so you be like Mikey & Becky and it'll all be fine, you may even surprise us and be successful and get an education. How could you not want to be just like little Mikey? He is just like me and after all, I am always right."
If we are going to have a dress code, I could go for military Woodland BDUs and combat boots for everyone, teachers and administration not excluded. I wonder how the Board would have voted if that were the only choice they had available? If a dress code is necessary, it should not favor one group over the rest, I guess that would defeat the purpose though.
summerhill...
mature role models?
I am just speaking from what I know and the parents at Harris who seem to be yelling about the dress code are the same parents who try to act like they are in junior high also. They what to dress and act like their kids, so they are forced to defend their child and the clothes they ware.
I truly had no problems with the code. Are their other problems in school..of course. Does the search take longer...yes. But maybe we are moving in the right direction before our children are stopped outside the school, lined up and run through a metal detector each morning.
As for kids being put in ISS.... my own child told me that most of the kids being sent to ISS have been warned over and over. If they would follow the rules the first time, then they don't have to worry about ISS. My daughter received a warning about a belt. She came home and told me about it, so the belt was put away. She picked another belt. Not the one she wanted, but it kept her out of trouble.
So now the dress code is in place.
I think many of the concerns expressed now involve the method of inspection. In reviewing the policy, I found the procedure for discipline but nowhere did I see that the school authorities would be lining up kids for examination. What will be do when they start doing pat-downs on every student? I personally would prefer the metal detectors. There are other schools who do this. Didn't they start using one in in Nashville after the dress code didn't work?
"The school system reserves the right to determine what may be disruptive and unsafe."
This was the final statement in the policy, but from what I read in the Supreme Court decision, I thought the school system had to provide PROOF that it was "disruptive and unsafe."
Did anyone else get this impression?
"My daughter received a warning about a belt."
Ah, so your daughter recieved preferential treatment! On the first full day 52 children were in ISS. That's some warning!
Sending home a warning is NOT part of the policy. As you can clearly see, certain children are being singled out.
No warning came home. It was my daughter that told me about her belt. She has not heard of kids going straight to ISS unless they had repeat violations. There are some that go to ISS until their parents can bring them other clothes.
I can only speak for Harris. Not sure about the other schools.
My son goes to Harris. I know what is going on.
Maybe the T-G should poll Bedford County residents on how they feel the School Board is doing?
TG already did
How long ago?
Was it a general opinion, or specific, as in pertaining to the dress code?
If it was more than 6 months ago, I believe another poll should be taken.
So Evil Monkey.... does that mean you drop your son off and pick him up every day? If so, then there should be no problem because you are monitoring your sons clothing. That's what I do with my child and aside from the belt, we have had no problems.
Don't mean to get personal, but if your son got ISS, what was the reason given. I have not heard of any confusion as Harris. Can't say the same for SCHS. Apparenly the kids there are very confused and I am concerned when I had one girl tell me that some male teacher seems to only be concerned with how low her buttons go on her shirt. Yon male teacher is looking a little too hard.
sameoldstory,
No, my son is a busrider. He didn't receive ISS because I will not have my son suffer over what I feel is wrong. I am active member of the community and I get alot of calls or emails from parents concerned with what is happening. These individuals never had any problems before, they were dressed fine before. The issue seems to be the nitpicking of minor infractions, the regime-type atmosphere and the total disregard of how the student feels.
Remember there is NO TOLERANCE if you don't agree, but does that same rule apply to the board and the administration? No. This is the sad fact, but that has changed. Each parent can and should hold them accountable.
Call me 536-1279 if you want more information.
summerhill,
Yeah it was definately awhile ago. Doesn't matter the numbers will not reflect the true opinion. People are afraid to make others mad, there is a fear. No idea why, because they can't do a thing to anyone and they don't dare mess with my children.
"To those parents who don't like the code. You created the code by letting your son and daughter go to school looking like trash. Get out the mirror and blame yourself."
-- Posted by sameoldstory on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 7:54 PM
Let me get this straight. Just because most of us don't agree with the dress code, we all dress like trash and let our children dress like trash as well.
You dont know any of us, how we dress, or how we allow our children to dress. That is a pathetic attempt to insult everyones differance of opinion.
How about I tell you, I dont like what you drive or where you live. You need to conform to my standards and buy a new car and move into a better home. I don't care if it causes you any hardship, just do it because I said! I doubt you would appreciate it.
Did you ever stop to think that some of the kids that are getting ISS have parents that can't afford new clothes no matter how cheep they can be bought. Just punish the kids even if they can't help it! Is that really the answer? Not in my book...
Disgusted... I've heard the "can't afford it" argument, so much that I have to ask.... What did the kids wear before the dress code? The clothes that are approved are way cheaper than the clothes we bought before.
You should have seen the look on my child's face when I came home with two shirts from Goodwill. LOL She didn't like it, but she also knows that I pay the bills so she wears what I tell her to. Yes, she argues, but she still has to follow my rules.
I know my viewpoint is skewed and for that I am very sorry, but I listened while another mother told me it was hard for her to afford the clothes, but then I saw her son wearing $150 shoes and an Abercrombie & Fitch shirt at the horse show Sunday night. I could outfit my kid for a year on what she paid for those two items.
This time next year, this will all be settled. Everyone will get used to the change and adjustments will be made.
I asked my daughter what's the main thing that's getting kids put in ISS and she said "All black" She knows some kids that come to school every day knowing those colors arean't appoved and still they wear it so off to ISS they go.
I will agree with one point. The teachers need to dress to code also. I don't think it's right for the teachers to dress like they are ready to hit the clubs and at the same time they are sending kids to ISS for violations. If they dress with more respect, the students may give them a little more respect.
Disgusted... I've heard the "can't afford it" argument, so much that I have to ask.... What did the kids wear before the dress code? The clothes that are approved are way cheaper than the clothes we bought before.
I have a good friend whos husband walked out on her and 3 kids a month or so before school started. She's trying to keep a home for her 3 kids and pay the bills by herself. I know she truely can't afford it, her sons been in ISS at Community already. Most kids can still wear some cloths from last year unless they have a major growth spirt. At least shirts!
My kids horseshow project is cleaning out closets and going through old clothes. Yesterday afternoon they had 5 large garbage bags full sitting in the hall, there will probably be 10 by this afternoon. All of it's going to Good Will but no one can really benefit from it.
>>I listened while another mother told me it was hard for her to afford the clothes, but then I saw her son wearing $150 shoes and an Abercrombie & Fitch shirt at the horse show Sunday night. I could outfit my kid for a year on what she paid for those two items.<<
So your main concern is that children were wearing Expensive shoes and clothing to school that you couldn't afford?
hey guess what? Abercrombie & Fitch, Holister, American Eagle still sell clothing that is approved by the schools. And as long as I am buying the clothes I will continue to buy whatever brand I want to..Not one of us that oppose this dress code has ever once tried to tell you that your child must wear certain things. You have always been able to purchase your child's clothing at Goodwill or Wal-mart if that's what you wanted to do. Of course then you weren't so limited to what you was allowed to buy.
There are plenty of children in this town that have always had to get by on Hand-me-downs of course this year there are no Hand-me-downs because of the new standards.
Just because a child is a Brand name child does not make them any smarter or any better than any other child and most brand name children do not feel this way at all. It is their parents that feel that way!!!
I am a grandmother to one of the students that the T-G mentioned concerning the dress code and the ISS. This young man has (or possibly had) a great deal of pride and respect for himself, his school and teachers. He was DEVASTATED!!!!! He has NEVER been in trouble and always enjoyed and looked forward to going to school. He is from a family of hard working people. His parents (mother, father and step-father) ALL work TOGETHER to make sure that he has everything he needs and is required for all his accademic needs. They (mother, father and step-father) would have NEVER purposely sent their child to school in anything that they thought would have caused him a problem or embarrassment. This child has worked hard to carry out his responsibilites to his schooling. I am infuriated at the fact that his shirt had to be raised up to find the one inch inperfection (flaw) in the fabric of his jeans. You know, I am going to stop now, because I do not want to disappoint or embarrass him with what I would truly love to say to some of these so called "educators and their board members". Just give me time, I will be back! But in the mean time, I would appreciate it if the teachers would start holding classes and let these children get back to the process of learning.
plainandsimple,
Thank you for an honest and revealing segment of what truly is happening to good students with good parents with a good support system. As you can see, It is happening to good people. How much education time is taken up with this dress code?
I would say considering the fact we have 2 schools on the High Priority List of Failing schools any time taken away from the education of our children is too much. And it just so happens both of the schools on the High Priority List are schools dealing with this dress code issue instead of the education issue!
Dianatn.... wrong. I have a very good job and can well afford it. I just choose not to.
My point is.... don't make the argument that you are against the dress code because "it cost too much" and then go around and dress your child in expensive clothes.
Trust me... my child has some VERY nice clothes. I just saved money by buying th cheaper school schools to off set the price of gas over the summer.
Excuse me, but you are the one who said you could clothe your child for an entire year for what a Abercrombie & Fitch and a pair of shoes cost.
http://www.state.tn.us/education/nclb/ay...
Hmm... interesting, I'd be willing to bet that the dress code won't have an impact on these results. At least a positive impact, that is.
*Bedford County is one of only 6 schools systems(counties) in ALL of Tennessee on the High Priority list. There are 123 school districts in Tennessee according to tennessee.gov
Too see what the Priority Levels mean, and the actions that MUST be taken to correct each level, go here: http://state.tn.us/education/nclb/doc/tn... [hint: GET READY TAX PAYERS!!!!!]
And the best they could come up with is a Dress Code!!!
I thought Bedford County Schools were PUBLIC schools. If I wanted a darn dress code for my children. I would of put them in PRIVATE schools.
Just another way for the parents to be dictated to.
Makes me wonder where my right as a Legal American,freedom of choice.
We need new blood in the School board. And some of these people who run with no one running against them,needs some competition.
If they made everyone wear the same, it might of been different. But not doing that and not making the Bedford Co. School employees follow the same code is not right.
They should set the example.For they are our teachers. And some students look up to them.
I say get rid of the dress code. And who ever the person was who ever put the first thought in the boards up coming ways to create problems, should be rode out of the county.
We have enough to worry about for buying for school;
hand sant.,erasable markers,3 boxes tissues,glue,paper,special kinds of binders, ect. ect.
Not to mention room fees, class trip money. Lunch money.
What does our taxes pay for??????
Next thing it will be belts,socks,shoes,ect.ect,
When will it ever STOP????????????????????????????????
To those parents who don't like the code. You created the code by letting your son and daughter go to school looking like trash. Get out the mirror and blame yourself.
-- Posted by sameoldstory on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 7:54 PM
It is the parents who's children abide by EVERY single rule at school already... and get punished because of the FEW who did dress as you mentioned. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
Worry about educating our students to make better grades. So we won't have one of the lowest scores in the state. And get rid of the dress code. And these class trips to the ; parks,Burger King and Rec Center. Schools aren't to be a day care. But a learning place. Look at every month on the school calendar, there are days off in almost all of them. Not worth buying special clothes to go to school for.And on those useless abev.days that they go to school just to get to school and then return home. May I ask whats the use of a dress code that day.Students should have the same dress down days as the teachers do.Can't say it enough. Make everyone have the dress code or no one.
That's right...I could put my child within the dress code for the whole school year. That doesn't mean that is the only clothes I buy. The kids don't have to dress to code outside of school. The point I was making is that she claimed she couldn't afford to buy the school clothes, but her child was wearing clothes outside of school that were way more expensive.
I understand that some have a hardship and can't afford any cloths so their children have to ware what they have.
You can't tell me that you haven't seen "poor" kids every day coming out of the projects, but they are wearing $150 shoes and gold chains. These are the same kids who have parents that said they couldn't "afford" the dress code.
So what's the real argument here. You all don't approve of the dress code at all, or you don't approve of it because it's not what you choose to have your child ware.
Have you ever stopped to think this may help some kids who were made fun of because they couldn't afford the latest clothes? Maybe that child is happy to look like everyone else.
darrick_04 you are exactly.... many got punished for the actions of a few. Because a few parents allowed their kids to go to school looking goth and a few parents allowed their kids to go to school looking like your latest hip-hop star and a few parents allowed their kids to go to school looking like street walkers.
The only way to stop the extreme clothes was to institute a dress code for all.
sameoldstory,
Sorry? Some a few ruined it for the many, so you are saying it is far easier to look at every child then the few wanna-be rap stars, goth people, or hookers... I am sorry but i don't understand that type of logic.
I want free ice cream, so I am going to talk with my legislator to pass a bill to tax everyone because I want free ice cream.
The only way to stop the extreme clothes was to institute a dress code for all.
-- Posted by sameoldstory on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, at 5:55 AM
The school should've enforced the the previous code on the the few kids who did not follow it, not to institute a new dress code for all the kids who followed the dress code.
Let's apply the same logic the School Board has shown to a different scenario:
A small minority of students are routinely a behavior problem.
The only way to stop this extreme behavior, the School Board institutes a mandatory daily detention for all students in the entire Bedford County School System. Those who do not show up must be suspended.
Ludicrous, right? But same logic.
Why should our children be punished for following the original dress code, when the School System clearly did not punish the students who did not?
School systems across the country started instituting these dress codes in the 90s. Funny, but I haven't seen the evidence that a significant decrease in violence has occurred. It has also been recently reported that ACT scores are actually down!!!! Where is the increase in achievement they were supposed to produce?
In reference to students who dressed 'differently', most of them at least had their bodies covered and not skin tight. Most kids who knew them didn't think anything about the way they dressed. Maybe we should focus more on the kids who constantly criticized anyone outside their cliche. They are the ones who wanted everyone to look the same. They were intimidated by kids who were outspoken and defied their 'authority' to control the school environment.
I think that is called 'bullying' and like one of my kids told me, "They will just find something else", so a dress code won't stop it.
We are not the only ones debating this issue:
108 kids suspended! Did that really help achievement or make the other kids more comfortable in their environment?
http://www.local10.com/education/1425091...
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/12/style.r...
I think this is the article referring to actually giving parents the option not to follow the dress code!!! I thought our school board researched several policies but I don't see the reasoning for the one they chose.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/08/31/...
This code was proposed by a committee of teachers--doesn't include specific colors--stricter enforcement of the code in place.
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/COMMUNITY/0...
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/COMMUNITY/0...
The only way to stop the extreme clothes was to institute a dress code for all.
-- Posted by sameoldstory on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, at 5:55 AM
What was wrong with enforcing the previous "dress code" .... As you can see, hundreds of students sent to ISS is taking away from the learning environment, and it most definitely does not make the learning environment more "comfortable"... It's ironic that college campuses don't require such ridiculousness, in fact they ENCOURAGE diversity, differing opinions and contrasting thoughts, something that is shunned on in this county and it is painfully rampant among the school board.
Meanwhile, I wonder what their solution will be to the upcoming list of schools that will be on the High Priority lists, and the schools that are already falling behind...? I'm not a gambling man, but I guarantee you, this silly little dress code is like pouring alcohol on a wound. It, may address a symptom of a minor problem, but in no way provides the ultimate solution.
Sameoldstory- Do you mind me asking exactly what was wrong with the belt? Again, I saw nothing in the dress code about belt restrictions (aside from safety). My daughter has actually been wearing a ribbon belt most days, because she dislikes belt buckles. Even though it's in a non-approved color, she has passed inspection every single day.
Again, there seems to be no consistancy in this new policy at all. No wonder people are so upset!
Also, I spoke to a woman over the weekend who claims that her son was sent to ISS for having 3 threads hanging from the hem of his jeans. According to her, when he told the teacher that if she would give him some scissors, he could just cut them off, he was not allowed to do so, and was also sent to the principle for back-talking the teacher. His mother was called to bring him a change of pants.
I'm not sure how accurate that story is, because of the intense hatred this particular person seems to have for the dress code. But if there is any truth to it at all, it's a little over-the-top, don't you think?
I still fault the parents. If they had dressed their children in a decent manner to start with, the rest of our children wouldn't have been subjected to this.
Evil Monkey... it would be easy for you and I to sit in the school parking lot and pick out what is decent and what isn't. The bad thing is, if the school system had done that without a really detailed dress code, they would have looked at a lawsuit. The black children would say they are being picked on for hip-hop clothes. The goths would have said their freedom of expression was hurt because they couldn't wear their spiked god collar. (Not to mention that both of these groups wear jewelry that can easly be turned into a weapon)
Nobody's Fool..... Her belt was one of those that was too long on the end and hung down a little. She tied it up for the rest of the day.
Summerhill wrote "A small minority of students are routinely a behavior problem.The only way to stop this extreme behavior, the School Board institutes a mandatory daily detention for all students in the entire Bedford County School System. Those who do not show up must be suspended."
This already took place. Do you know that if your child is at Harris or SCHS, they can't carry their backpacks between classes? They are put in the lockers each morning. It's to keep the kids from hiding knives, guns and drugs in them.
Also...no matter what the temp is in the classroom, they can't wear their coats in the building. Coats have to go in the lockers each morning. That's because you can hide too much under them.
So you see, we already have to institute rules because a few students.
It's sad really..... even the school system will not admit it, but dress codes, backpack rules and coat rules have nothing to do with a good learning environment. It's about school safety. We are lucky.... at least they haven't made us start buying clear backpacks as some M'boro and Nashville schools do.
I just think that your anger is not directed at the right people. Does our school board make bad decisions at time...yes? But they have also found the money to build schools while other school systems are so broke they could not start classes. (And saved enough on one building that they were able to move money for another need at Community)
I still fault those parents that didn't have a handle on their kids, so all of our kids have to pay for the errors of a few.
darrick_04.... There is a simple reason why Harris and SCHS ended up on the list of schools. Those are the schools with the biggest latino populations. No...the media and school system can't say it, but it's true.
It's not the Latino children's fault. They are trying. But when their own parents speak little or no English, how much help do you think they are getting at home? Then when the test comes around, their test scores bring the overall average of the school down.
No....Bedford County School Board isn't at fault on this one. Blame the Federal Government and State Government that set unfunded mandates on the school systems. We aren't given the funds to succeed unless you completely fail. Then you get funding and the state takes over to run your school. THEN....after your school improves and is taken off the list, they loose the funding again.
How screwed up is that?
I am not angry-
I am thoroughly disgusted.
I think it is lazy, narrow minded, problem solving on the School Boards part.
A potential lawsuit applies right now. Our children are being discriminated against just as much as a "goth" or "hip hop" kid would have been.
I think your argument is:
It has passed, therefore it is OK. We must abide, and it will all be water under the bridge in a year or so.
I am not one to just accept something is OK, simply because those in an authoritative seat say it is so.
We are talking about a School System that still offers corporal punishment!
What reasonable parent would allow their child to be struck by another adult with a board?
This is the mentality that is governing the "welfare" of our children?
It is not OK. The parents have voiced their opinion at every forum offered to them, and at Cascade it was a resounding NO, it is not OK.
I was very proud of our district to at least have someone challenge the school board, and I voted for Robert Allison.
You're all alone in your sad little world. As I have stated many times before. I dressed very appropriately for school, every day for 13 years... I graduate no. 2 in my class and will graduate with a 3.5 at MTSU in December. I don't say that to brag, I say it to refute this ridiculous notion, that somehow the only people who are mad are the people who didn't dress appropriately every day. The reality is, 95% of the students dressed appropriately, 5% probably didn't... Now, 100% of them have to pay the consequences because 5% chose not to follow the procedure. That is JUST LIKE SAYING, the United States, Jamaica, and Australia should be stripped of their gold medals because CHINA cheated. You see, it's a sickening thought you have, and that is why you are alone in that thought.
I don't approve of the dress code because it goes against the basic principals of the United States: Freedom of Choice. Your right to choose what you wear in a Public Place. Schools are a public place as long as my taxes are supporting the school, it is a Public School. If you prefer your child to look like everyone else then send them to a private school where they are told what to wear, again that would be a choice for you. As long as you are not indecent you can dress however you wish, children have those same rights.
This is not a Job..When you CHOOSE a job that requires a uniform then that is your choice to wear that uniform. You are PAID to go to work, children are not paid to go to school. They are children, Not inmates, Not Employees...they are students!!
What really amazes me is we have schools failing right here in Bedford County and what is our school board doing to address this problem? They are giving the teachers more non-educational things to do (ie: check for belts, see if undershirts are tucked in, measuring shirts to be sure they come no longer than 6 inches below the belt line, seeing what kind of shoes the students have on, what colors the students have on) When a teacher has 30 students in a class, How long is that taking? This is taking up classroom time that evidently these children need with the teacher. It seems to me we are going about education in the wrong direction here, our teachers are not the Fashion Police. They are at school and paid to do one job and that is to educate our children.
It amazes me even more that our schools are failing our children by not giving them the education they deserve yet all you want to talk about is how wonderful the dress code is!!
The main subject should be How are we going to bring these scores up? Certainly not by cutting class time in half!!
You know what else I have noticed....
If you arrive at the school to pick up your child, and you try to find a teacher at 2:55 pm, to discuss your child's progress, or what you can do to help them do better, or your child needs just a bit more help understanding math, etc. ... they can NEVER be found?
I know there are teachers posting on this blog, PLEASE let us know.... are you in a school meeting? Do you have to leave when the children do?
I don't know where you child goes to school but at the schools I have dealings with ..I have never ever had a problem finding the teachers. Most are there until after the buses all leave and some a longtime afterwards! Some of the teachers have after school tutoring and some have it in the morning hours.
Teachers are at school at 7:45 until at least 3:15 if your school goes 8-3. I know I get off at 5pm and don't get paid if I stay longer, neither do teachers.
If the teacher your child has happens to be a coach try looking in the gym, they always have after school practice.
My child goes to Cascade High School....
and on the few times I've needed to speak with a teacher that day, I truly hunted them down... including going to the office and having them paged.
I would like to clarify, my child has had some wonderful teachers, who were available after school whether it was to answer a question, or help with understanding an assignment. For the most part, however, it is very difficult to find teachers in the afternoon. So much so, I truly thought it was policy that they leave the building!
PS Dianatn,
Thank you forthe advice, and answering my question. I really appreciate it!
:)
Dianatn,
I understand that the United States was built on freedom of choice and I support that. But think about this, public schools must be supervised as any other public place so if a student has full freedom of choice, does that give them the right to defy authority? Yes it does. But there are consequences. Many parents do not appreciate a teacher or administration reprimanding or disciplining their child. I understand if a parent does not support corporal punishment, but if a parent tells a child that he can defy a teacher we have a problem. And it happens. The respect for authority is just not there as it once was. I'm not saying this is the fault of parents but I think many parents do not encourage respect as they once did. As I said in previous posts, although there have been several kids in ISS, the general demeanor of the students seems calmer. And in case anyone has not heard this, administration at my school has given out countless shirts to violators to avoid ISS. So anyone who thinks we are just sending hundreds of kids a day to ISS is misinformed. Concerning belts....the students were told on Aug. 8th about the belt rule (and no one was sent to ISS on that day). So students were supposed to be informed when they returned on Aug. 11th. So i know I'll get raked across the coals for this but in my opinion many parents who are complaining are upset because it is affecting THEM not their children. Students are complaining to parents so what are parents doing....blaming the school board. As I said earlier in this post...many parents cannot accept that their children must be disciplined by someone else. And concerning test scores.....sameoldstory is correct. The two schools affected by test scores have a large population of hispanic students who many do not have the language skills needed to perform well on the tests.
darrick_04... Well fellow MTSU (soon to be Alum)
I suppose that you can park any place you like on MTSU Campus. I suppose that you don't put a parking tag in your window. I suppose that you didn't just spit back what your teacher wanted just to get your passing grade. And of course, you don't carry your MTSU ID to the computer lab, science, lab or library.
No.... you conformed to the rules of MTSU and therefore you are going to pass. Those parking rules are in place for a reason. Those parking tags are to insure your safety. That student ID is for your safety on campus and insure that other's aren't allowed in areas where you need to study.
Did you make or approve of the rules at MTSU.?..no, but you still followed so you can pass. Maybe when you join the real work force you will see that you conform even more.
"This is not a Job..When you CHOOSE a job that requires a uniform then that is your choice to wear that uniform. You are PAID to go to work, children are not paid to go to school. They are children, Not inmates, Not Employees...they are students!!"
But isn't the point of school/ education to prepare you for the work world. As you said, when you get a job (well...most jobs) you are required to dress a certain way. What's wrong with teaching that now?
In my work, we have problems getting kids right out of college (and they are kids) that know how to dress for a courtroom or a business meeting. Most dress like they did on campus and they just look lazy when they come to the office. Like they don't care about their appearance.
And....in my company, they have changed the "dress code" three times over the last 17 years. I didn't choose to ware a tie every day, but when the head of the company said we had to, I did. Very simple.
Same here... I have one in Harris and one at SouthSide. I have no trouble getting their teachers when I need to talk with them.
sameoldstory
Again--You have the choice to go to school or not and the choice to work in a place that requires a tie. Also, last I remember, students weren't suspended from classes because they forgot their ID or parked in the wrong place.
Kids are not given that choice. They are required by law to be in school.
If we continue to push these extreme conformity issues, we are going to end up with rebellions. There was a reference to the black armbands worn by anti-Vietnam students. Do we want to bring back those times?
rttr001
Most parents are not pushing their kid to defy teachers but their was a comment about a student asking a teacher if they could have a pair of scissors to cut a frayed edge and was sent to the office for back-talk. The policy specifically states "excessively frayed".
Do you consider that defiance????
Do you consider a defect in material to be in violation of the policy??? Should that student--who was wearing a belt and was asked to lift their shirt to prove it--been sent to ISS.
Kids do have rights and if a parent had the resources and threatened to take this system to court, I would not in the least be surprised if suddenly the policy was revised. If you do not believe that kids have rights, then I think YOU need to find a different profession, perhaps as a prosecutor so you can punish as many people as you please.
Sorry, but I do not agree with the system of inspection being forced on our students and on the teachers who do not agree with it but are conforming because they are worried about their jobs. We have enough to worry about already.
In my work, we have problems getting kids right out of college (and they are kids) that know how to dress for a courtroom or a business meeting. Most dress like they did on campus and they just look lazy when they come to the office. Like they don't care about their appearance.
HA HA HA... You definitely don't know Darrick!
The way I read it, the Hispanic population is not the current problem area in either school. The economically disadvantaged (more than half of the students) and the disabled are the subgroups that have been singled out. If Bedford County had no Hispanic students, the results would have been pretty much the same. rttr001, as a teacher you should know that. I am forced to assume that either you do not understand the results of the report card, or you are attempting to spread dis-information. Either way, your position is questionable.
http://edu.reportcard.state.tn.us/pls/ap...
darrick_04 did conform to the standards imposed by the institutions he has chosen to attend. I think a key word is chosen. I never chose to get a parking pass or student ID for MTSU, nor tell the teachers anything. I also fail to understand your analogy regarding safety and how it applies to the dress code.
I think the problem lies in how one views the rules in place. There is a part of the population that accepts any rule, for any given reason deferring to society in general without question, and another segment that questions the rules that govern us. I am all for rules and the rule of law, but I am not of the opinion that we can afford to submit whole-heartedly to every rule that the select few in leadership positions feel the need to dictate, regardless of their original intent.
memyselfi.....
You don't understand how safety and dress code go hand in hand.
Do you know how easily weapons can be hidden in really loose pants?
Do you know how some types of jewelry can be used as a weapon?
I have done enough "pat downs" in my previous job to tell you that it's really easy when the clothes don't fit. Heck.... I would take clothes that are too tight any day. At least they can't keep a gun or knife hidden.
IS the dress code on the extreme side...sure, but no one has yet to tell me where it really hurts the student. Simple rule...don't want your child in ISS. Follow the code. From what I have been told, it's being applied across the board. Even got word that a teacher from one school had to leave because their child at another school wore pants that were sagging and didn't fit.
Yes....many kids are being punished for the errors of a few kids. But I have yet to hear one of you place blame on the parents of the kids that caused this code to be started. Those kids didn't have the money to buy those clothes. Their parents bought them. Their parents let them leave the house with their pants hanging around their butts.
I'm done. That's why we are in America. We all have our opinions.
teacherbctn,
A few things to think about: We are not doing body cavity searches on the students. And it is not my mission to send kids to ISS. I have rules in my classroom and the school has rules. If students do not abide by the rules there are consequences. Is it against your rights for airport security to make you empty your pockets and take off your shoes and walk through a metal detector? It is for your protection. Is it against a student's rights for drug dogs to come in and search lockers? Its for their protection. Yes I believe children have some rights but they are minors and that limits their freedom of speech. As long as my children live in my house they can express their rights but ultimately I make the rules and they must follow them. I truly believe that school is not the place to get attention by how many piercings you have, how "goth" you dress, how much jewelry you wear or how low you can wear your pants. School is a place for learning and although I can't speak for the board I really believe that they care about the students of Bedford Co. As for the frayed jeans, look at general requirements, part D. It states "All clothing must be hemmed. No drawstrings, cut-offs or rolled up cuffs are allowed on pants, jeans, capri pants, shorts or skirts." I think this teacher was following the rules. And yes if a student "back-talks" that is considered disrespectful and grounds for punishment. I'm just trying to look at the overall scope of this and I think too many are preying upon minute glitches that will be fixed.
memyselfi,
A large percentage of those economically disadvantaged are hispanic. Look at the profile of each school and you will see. Economically disadvantaged covers all races. I'm not blaming the low test scores on hispanics because I know that it is not their fault. Many of the hispanics are from migrant families that know little english. These kids do recieve resource through ESL classes but they are also integrated into normal classes and must take the same tests as everyone else. I just wanted to clarify that. I have seen the report card.
"III. DRESS CODE PROHIBITIONS
....Stressed and excessively frayed jeans are not allowed."
(Clothing can be hemmed and begin to fray with wear. It does not prohibit hemmed clothing with minor fraying. Everyone may not have gone out and bought brand new clothes like you do.)
Evidently we are not all perfect like you seem to think you are or expect everyone else to be. As far as your reference to the "goth-look", I pity you and your lack of understanding of diversity. I thought we as teachers were supposed to be promoting diversity and acceptance among our students. What makes you thing that a person who dresses different than your expectations is not responsible and compassionate and what makes you think that someone who does is more?
How can you possibly consider a student requesting, NOT DEMANDING, to be talking-back?
I also have rules in my house, but I do not expect my kids to march or say ma'm or sir in every other breath. That is for the military.
I think you and the administrators are way out of line and my kid would not be in your class-one way or another--if this is the attitude you display with the students everyday!!! How did you possible discipline before the dress code was implemented? Were you unable to send kids to the office for breaking the rules we already had?
Inspections and/or discipline should not be so intense and it should not make a child feel uncomfortable. These inspections are making many kids dread going to school.
No matter how this policy or punishment process affects me, I am still going to express my beliefs and if you or anyone else consider that to be complaining, then you are also complaining.
I am not planning to make any more comments on this site, but will continue to express myself openly if the subject comes up elsewhere as I have been.
I have 3 final words to you teachers and adminstrators who are pushing-not so much the dress code, but the routine inspections:
Shame, Shame, Shame!
As a citizen of Bedford Co.it disturbs me to think that the schoolboard feels the citzens of Bedford Co.fell off the same turnip truck that they fell off of.You under estimate us.When plans for building are submitted, heating and air conditing are a part of the original blueprints supplied by the architect along with plumbing,electrical,septic system and the list goes on. Oh! did you all remember the fire exits ?Who on the schoolboard will step forward and take the blame for the expensive mess you have created for our new school .I still don't understand how you could have overlook water supply and heat source. Yet, you have the ability to suspend a child over the dress code. I am not aginist the dress code but to know how diligent and detailed you have been about inforcing it, for the life of me ,why were you not as diligent reviewing the blueprints.How about and Honest answer and not a lame excuse.
teacherbctn,
"III. DRESS CODE PROHIBITIONS
....Stressed and excessively frayed jeans are not allowed."
(Clothing can be hemmed and begin to fray with wear. It does not prohibit hemmed clothing with minor fraying. Everyone may not have gone out and bought brand new clothes like you do.)
Posted by teacherbctn on Wed, Aug. 27, 2008, at 4:07 P.M.
In defense of that teacher I'm going by what the code says: "pants must be hemmed". Hey as I said before I'm a teacher for the kids. I have never mistreated a student. I treat everyone fairly. Teacherbstn, I'm sorry you do not feel the same way I do, but I expect to be respected in my classroom. When a student says yes maam or yes sir to me in class it says a lot for that child to me. I expect my own kids to treat adults with respect and this includes saying maam and sir to any authority figure. I still do that myself. And please be clear about what you mean by back-talk or requesting. You said earlier that the student back-talked the teacher. I'm assuming this was after the student requested the scissors. If a student requests something and I refuse and they argue with me, that is back-talk in my book and not acceptable in my classroom. And one more thing, you don't have to pity me about diversity. I welcome any student to my classroom and I'll do my best to teach them. I have had "gothic" dressed students who were some of the best students in my class. In my opinion, diversity can still be expressed in school through writing, attitude, demeanor, personality. School is a place of learning. Why can't people understand that. Kids have all kinds of time outside of school to express diversity.
rrt001,
It seems if you have control issues. Why can't a child argue with you? What if YOU are wrong?
Yes ma'am , yes sir is completely unnecessary and is antiquated.
>>>But isn't the point of school/ education to prepare you for the work world. As you said, when you get a job (well...most jobs) you are required to dress a certain way. What's wrong with teaching that now?
Because these are children!!! Please understand your job as a teacher is not to teach children any kind of moral value. Your job is to teach children English, Math, History, Science or whatever subject it is that you teach.
>>>Do you know how easily weapons can be hidden in really loose pants?
Please Give me a break here They can bring in guns in Purses, Didn't a teacher just prove that last year?
>>>>Is it against a student's rights for drug dogs to come in and search lockers? Its for their protection
Duh, Drugs are illegal Striped Shirts are not!
>>>And concerning test scores.....sameoldstory is correct. The two schools affected by test scores have a large population of hispanic students who many do not have the language skills needed to perform well on the tests.
The question was not how we got here it was what are we going to do about it, besides waste classroom time looking for infractions of a Dress Code!!
rttr001 I would really like to know where you teach.
If you want someone to blame look in the mirror yourself because if you had been this avid about enforcing the old dress code then we wouldn't be having this conversation, or would we?
This looks much like the ole smoke and mirrors trick.. Trying to cover-up the Real problems.
sameoldstory, When you can show me that the clothing you mentioned being worn to school correlates to weapons being brought to school, I will fall right in line behind you. I do not believe you will find any such thing. This is part of the propaganda being spewed out with no concern for accuracy by the leaders of this community. As I stated in another post, statistically speaking in Bedford County, we need to be looking into our teachers purses for guns first. Our schools are safe. They were before the dress code.
rttr001, I have looked at the numbers many times in the last few weeks. I dispute your interpretations of the data. If every single Hispanic child were also in the category of being economically disadvantaged which is not very likely, as I am familiar with several upper-middle class Hispanics, the undisputable majority of the sub-group would still be other than Hispanic. It just does not seem to me to be very productive to shine the light of blame where it does not belong. I for one believe the Hispanic population gets its share of blame for many things. Perhaps, we should look at the schools and the Board for once, as there is a history of poor results in both schools. Maybe we even need to examine the data as it pertains to each individual teacher. I bet if we could, we would find many more excuses sounding like yours.
rttr001,
You are laughable. Seriously, are you really that far out there? So you are saying if someone ask for scissors to cut the 3 strands that were hanging off the HEMMED pants, and you said No. You are purposely forcing the issue and causing a disturbance within the classroom. You are the problem, not the parents and not the child. JUST YOU! I swear, please invite me to your "classroom". I would LOVE to sit in.
Sameoldstory,
I have a CHOICE to go to MTSU... Just like I have a CHOICE to work... Students don't have the option of not going to high school, because it is mandated by law. Big difference.
HA HA HA... You definitely don't know Darrick!
-- Posted by Disgusted on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, at 2:08 PM
I love you ;) HAHA! Glad you know me well enough to not make such erroneous assumptions.
memyselfi,
I agree that not all Hispanics are economically disadvantaged. There are many who because of hard work are more acedemically adept than the other races. But the ones with language barriers become frustrated and give up and its hard to get them back especially when they don't have assistance at home. I'm really frustrated with this board. Once upon a time respect was a strengh and teachers were revered in the community. Seems that all many of you have to say are negative comments about teachers. For someone to say that a simple yes ma'am is antiquated out of respect to authority show the sad state this country has become. Sadly I don't believe teachers have changed, I think society has changed around us.
Seems that all many of you have to say are negative comments about teachers. For someone to say that a simple yes ma'am is antiquated out of respect to authority show the sad state this country has become. Sadly I don't believe teachers have changed, I think society has changed around us.
-- Posted by rttr001 on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, at 9:14 PM
Tell us where you work.. For someone who is so staunch on your position, I suppose it is rather easy to hide behind an anonymous name....
So tell us. Lastly, if you think we are espousing negative comments about the teachers, then you obviously haven't read anything. We are upset with a school board that is fundamentally flawed in their thinking, and LACK OF actions. It is just fine for those teachers to speak out against the insanity as well. There is no reason on God's green earth why we need to spend more than 10 minutes a day checking students clothing. Perhaps 10 minutes a day, prior to the new code could have saved YOU, and every other teacher a lot of trouble...
Thanks Evil Monkey, I appreciate the comment. So what most of you are saying is that we as teachers should just let the students run wild in the classroom. Education 101.....You must have rules in the classroom stated clearly. If rules are violated there must be consequences. Guys this starts in kindergarten with the birds getting moved out of the nest as punishment. You have got to have some sort of classroom management or you will be dealing with chaos. Yes I would use my judgement in the case of the pants leg. If it were just threads, then yes I might let them cut it. If it was frayed material because the pant leg was under the heel and several large strips were hanging off, I would call that excessive fraying. And also Evil Monkey, disturbances in my classroom are dealt with outside. I never purposely degrade or embarrass a student in front of the class. So please don't pass judgement on my teaching and classroom management skills. I just expect respect in my classroom and I usually get just that. And if you think that I try to instill fear in my students, you are wrong. I do not yell or scream, I just enforce the rules.
I have no problem what-so-ever with teachers they have a very hard job . Teaching is probably one of the most unappreciated, underpaid professions around. I stand behind every teacher who is willing to teach children because I for one would not have their job!
The school board has imposed this dress code on not only the students and their parents but the teachers also.
Don't you think you had enough to do during the day without having to be the Fashion Police?
darrick_04,
FYI, it takes me less than five minutes in first period to check dress code. Sincerely I believe that once the kinks are out, the dress code will be a success and life goes back to normal in good ole Bedford Co. Just wait and see.
rttr001, I do not presume to know your age, but I am middle aged and even in my childhood, teachers had to earn respect. Not only by making and enforcing rules in a fair and consistent manner, but also by treating the students with the same respect we "adults" would appreciate. Society has changed. I do not dispute that, but so have the demands and expectations of being a teacher and before we forget, a student. My children are expected to say ma'am and sir, but that is my prerogative as a parent to enforce or not, as I know best how I wish to raise my child. I was not the one that said that, but I honestly do not care if your students call you Ma'am or Sir or Joe, as long as they are learning what they need to be learning and hopefully a little bit extra. I do wonder why it is so important to you.
You are in a position of great responsibility and trust. You are with our children more than we are on some days. If you are of the opinion that you are not getting the respect you deserve, why not step back and evaluate your situation to see if you are giving out as much as you used to. I would guess an honest answer would be "No". I say this because of your last comment: "FYI, it takes me less than five minutes in first period to check dress code. Sincerely I believe that once the kinks are out, the dress code will be a success and life goes back to normal in good ole Bedford Co. Just wait and see.". For you to take the position that the children need a standardized dress code for any reason suggests to me that you may be more concerned about decorum than either learning or respect. To my understanding the dress code does nothing to help learning and is in fact, an affront to the respect issue.
rttr001- Please forgive me if you've already answered this question, but were you as diligent about enforcing the original dress code? Did you ever send a child to the office for showing up to school in pajamas and fuzzy slippers? Or contact a parent about a child showing up to school with his pants hanging below the butt? Or make a child wearing a midrift shirt or skimpy skirt call for a change of clothes?
I believe that THIS is what most of the people posting on this forum are upset about. There was little to no enforcement of the original dress code, yet the new, stricter code is being (in some cases) excessively enforced.
It's become not only a source of frustration and conflict, but also more of a distraction to the learning process than the actual offending clothing items were.
I just don't understand why the original code was not enforced by more school officials and teachers. It should have never been allowed to get so out of control that the entire county would eventually have to endure daily clothing checks.
I can remember Coach Bone and Coach Rose making people turn thier shirts inside out, or call home for a change of clothing when I was in high school. They had no qualms at all about it, yet we all respected them. Even my husband, who was constantly in trouble for one thing or another during high school, still has great respect for Mr. Bone and goes out of his way to speak to him when we run across him in public.
He is proof that people can lead our children with a firm hand and still gain thier respect. If our children had that kind of leadership today, I don't think we would have ever reached the point we're at now. This is not meant to attack any of our current principles or teachers, but clearly, somebody dropped the ball here.
"Education 101.....You must have rules in the classroom stated clearly. If rules are violated there must be consequences."
Hmmm Education 101... Where do you teach? Come on, You invited ANYONE to coming, so Where do I show up? What happens when parents and students rights have been violated? When an overwhelming majority of parents stated they were NOT for the SSA, why was this even passed? Why? Because it was another form of oppression that could be used as a control mechanism against students and their parents.
That was the one of the reasons it was passed; the second reason was to hide the fact that the less than stellar the performance of the test scores of the schools. So not only do you blame the economically disadvantaged, You force them to pay for additional clothes to place them in WORST SHAPE then before. Smart Move, Board of "Unreality". It doesn't take a rocket science to see that coming. Oh wait, I believe we (as in the majority) said that all along.
I do not yell or scream, I just enforce the rules.
-- Posted by rttr001 on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, at 9:37 PM
Obviously not, since you never mention a thing about enforcing the old dress code.... Or was it really even a problem?
Nobody's fool is correct and it's what I've been saying along. 1 or 2 schools were not enforcing the existing code and now we are all paying for it. And yes, I mean paying for it. I have one more year before I have to "buy" clothes and if I am in the same boat as of now, I will not be able to afford it. My kids do not get new clothes every year. And they certainly don't wear "name-brand" clothes. Shoot, I don't wear name-brand clothes! I don't care what the "other" kids are doing either! They wear nice t-shirts and decent shorts and are happy.My kids have been taught that it doesn't matter what a person wears. It's what's inside that counts. Once it cools off, they wear nice sweatpants because they are comfortable and warm. Not holey.
I am struggling to make my house payment and pay my bills. "Oh, you've still got internet service, you can afford to buy some "extra" clothes." Well, my internet access does pay my bills from my home-based/internet based business. So yes, I do have a couple "extras" so that I can make money. But because of the economy, my business is off because people have to pay their bills and not have the extra's of traveling. It's a big circle. I've looked at part-time jobs...do you know what the unemployement rate in Shelbyville is?! So yeah, I'm still ticked that the School Bored has nothing better to do (school test scores, building contracts that don't include heat) than to punish the whole system for the errors of a few. And yes, I do blame the teachers/principal. IT WAS THEIR JOB to enforce the old dress code. They didn't do it, THEY dropped the ball and now look how much time kids are NOT spending in the classroom.
Why didn't the school bored send home a questionaire? Why didn't we get to "vote" on it? If all parents (other than the ones here) are for it, then a vote would come out in their favor and I'd have nothing to gripe about. But I think they're afraid the vote would come back and bite them in the rear end! "It costs too much money to put it on a ballot"...well, gee, you didn't flinch about throwing out an extra $100,000 for a LP tank THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE BUILDING BID!Again, who "polices" our school bored. Who says they're right? I think the "power" is/has gone to their heads because they're out of touch with society.
You know our opinion isn't going to change a thing. We have no say so. We are not in a free country anymore. Evil Monkey you kill me dude. lol
babychick,
I don't want to kill anyone.
There really needs to be accountability on the board members. If people are really that unhappy they need to show up to the school board meetings, protest the dress code and demand better education.
There is a way to do this to make an impact but everyone that doesn't agree needs to do their part, it can't just be one person. I have a small outline on what to do. It is simple and won't take too much effort, but some effort does need to be made. Check it out Friday. The word will spread where it is located.
When I said kill me. I meant kill me with laughter.
I was being sarcastic :) Like the name, sounds all innocent and meek. Bet you are hellfire though.
I do enjoy reading your comments your a bit spunky.
email me at
sales@shelbyvillehosting.com
"You force them to pay for additional clothes to place them in WORST SHAPE then before."
So now you are saying that the dress code is going to lower scores? Evil Monkey... you are now streatching to try and make a point.
I am tired of parents saying what they "can't afford".... I have yet to see a child report to school naked, so they had to buy clothes some time.
"I can remember Coach Bone and Coach Rose".... Yes they did inforce the rules and both had a paddle while doing it. It's the parents that took control out of the school systems hands. My parents had no problem with a teacher spanking me. If I got it at school, then I got it at home.
Now...students are allowed to get away with everything, because parents (like most who are defnding their kids who got put into ISS for the dress code violation) will defend their kid no matter how wrong they are. They are afraid to tell their child NO and then wonder why the school system has to crack down.
Maybe if the parents said NO...when their child tried to walk out of the house looking thik a thug or street walker, we wouldn't have a need to the current dress code.
I'm fairly certain that by "WORST SHAPE", they meant financially.
And I agree that parents should be aware of what their children are doing and wearing, BUT, let's face it- kids can be sneaky. Just because they walk out the door loooking one way, does not mean that that's how they look when they walk through the doors of the school. The bottom line is that the school board set the original policy and it was the responsibility of the school faculty and the board to enforce it.
And I think it's absolutely silly to make such broad generalizations about each parent who's posting here. I have never, ever been one to automatically defend my child when I knew they were wrong. That's just bad parenting, and I'm not a bad parent.
Assuming that a person is a bad parent because they dare to disagree with an authority figure, policy or governing body is just wrong.
sameoldstory,
Worst shape financially, You know, financially disadvantaged... If you remember, that was the demographic that scored the lowest on the TCAP. The reason the board is pushing this is to make the students drop out so they cannot take the test. Problem solved! If you push them hard enough they just quit.
sameoldstory
It's a really good thing you don't teach any of my children, if you do I am not aware of it YET! You, a so called teacher on here calling kids Thugs and Street Walkers. Your probably one of those that sit back and say "Oh, that's so-n-so's kid" and "Bla Bla Bla"!
That mentality is exactly why I wont allow my children to be spanked at school, I can't hit my kids with a board and you can't either!
The school system IS cracked alright, we also have teachers that are molesting our kids and have no self-dicipline either so don't just blame all the problems on the kids and parents.
I've seen one teacher on here that's not afraid to voice their opinion without fear, also seems to understand kids and should be proud to call herself a teacher!
I understand what you're saying about parents not knowing what their kids are wearing, but I GUARANTEE YOU if the original dress code was enforced and the parents of those 5% of kids not complying were called and had to leave work a couple of times, it would have solved the problem. Oh no, heavens, that would have been too easy.
I plan on being at the next bored meeting...and I've got to pay my business tax tomorrow, so I'll be giving one of the school bored members a comment or 2 also! (Of course I'll be talking into the wind, but I enjoy hearing myself talk!) :>p
EvilMonkey,
Before you accuse the school board of wanting to force kids to drop out because of the dress code, know this: I believe if you check with student services the state is cracking down on dropout rates. They frown upon any school system encouraging students to drop out even to get a GED. And many of these students are over 18 yrs old. As a matter of fact we have several 19 and 20 yr olds in the system who are still plugging away trying to get that diploma. And furthermore, schools need to meet minimum dropout rates to avoid being put on the priority list. So no matter how crooked you think the school board is, I honestly do not believe there is a board member who wants any student to drop out. And with the major changes in curriculum coming next year, many of you may want to get your children ready for that instead of worrying about the dress code. And by the way, you can't blame the board members for the new curriculum.
>>And with the major changes in curriculum coming next year, many of you may want to get your children ready for that instead of worrying about the dress code. And by the way, you can't blame the board members for the new curriculum.
Yes we all know about the new curriculum coming next year. BTW I do believe that would be your job to prepare the students for the new curriculum. Who is it that is to worried about how the children are dressed instead of worrying about teaching?
well put!
Dianatn,
Let me clarify myself then.....yes it is the job of the teachers to teach the new curriculum. But we do need your help. We need parents involved in a positive way. Negativity by parents does the kids no good at all. All it amounts to is that parents need to make sure their children are dressed appropriately and they would not be in ISS and losing time in the classroom. I think the students have done a wonderful job with the dress code. A small minority are still out of compliance....a small minority. So honestly I believe it is a small minority who are against the dress code and I believe most of them are on this thread. And I do have sympathy for those in need who may not be able to afford clothing. I think administration at my school has handled that well, but I do not feel for parents who may be economically disadvantaged whose children are wearing $150 shoes and bring $200 ipods to school every day.
>>So honestly I believe it is a small minority who are against the dress code and I believe most of them are on this thread
Well I don't know about anyone else's child but mine has not been out of compliance. But it is done just so she doesn't get into trouble, no other reason. But then again she always dressed appropriately even before this unnecessary dress code.
Are you also worried that some children drive nice cars to school while other's have no car at all? Or that some live in very nice neighbors while some live in the projects?
rttr001,
Please understand that it is not a small minority that is against the dress code.
Every parent I know within the Cascade School system is against it.
Your opinion on the subject does not outweigh the fact that parents were unanimously against the dress code at Cascade School Board forum.
This is a public school system
The School Board should have allowed the parents a vote.
They did not, and that is fundamentally wrong.
If the public school system deem a uniform requirement, then they should supply it as they do text books.
If they will not, than they should have enforced the previous dress code.
Also, I posed this question to you before, and other posters have posed it to you as well, and I do not think you have responded.
Please do, as I truly want your input... I'll repost it below.
" Now don't get me wrong, this was a small percentage, but if this was not addressed this percentage would surely grow. "
rttr001 ,
As a teacher in the Bedford County School System, I would truly appreciate your perspective, pertaining to the statement you made above, on the enforcement of the dress code.
You acknowledged that only a small percentage of the student body were defiant in the previous school dress code.
I would like to know if you think it would of been more prudent to enforce the dress code rather than apply a stringent new dress code to the entire Bedford County school system, grades 6-12?
Wouldn't it have been easier to enforce those relatively few fashion disasters than routinely inspect the entire student population on a daily basis?
-- Posted by summerhill on Mon, Aug 25, 2008, at 11:19 AM
Ever stop to think that Ipod or 150.00 pair of shoes could have been a gift? I bought my 17yr old an expensive pair of sun glasses the other night, a (gift). She works, buys her own gas, pays her own insurance, keeps her grades up, and even bought some of her SSA clothes herself! If that's how I want to spend my money and reward my daughter for a job well done, that's my business. I will continue to complain about the dress code, it's wrong to force anything on anyone!
I can also assure you it's more than a small minority that's against it!
Well I don't know about anyone else's child but mine has not been out of compliance. But it is done just so she doesn't get into trouble, no other reason. But then again she always dressed appropriately even before this unnecessary dress code.
Posted by Dianatn
Exactly, same here!
"I am tired of parents saying what they "can't afford".... I have yet to see a child report to school naked, so they had to buy clothes some time."
I'm not necessarily arguing that the current required clothing costs more or less than what the children were wearing before, but you have to keep in mind that many of these kids do not normaly get new clothing for school every year and many of those who do, shop at Goodwill, yard sales or wear hand-me-downs.
Those are the people who are taking a financial hit from this new dress code.
I can only assume that the people here who continue to doubt that these hardships exist, have never personally endured them. I guess you should consider yourself lucky.
Am I missing something? Sameoldstory, are you really a teacher?
Disgusted... I'm not a teacher. Just very active in my child's school and activities.
DianaTN wrote: "BTW I do believe that would be your job to prepare the students for the new curriculum."
And you just stated the problem that many teachers already know. YOU are leaving it up to the teachers to take care of your child and make sure they are prepared. How silly is that? Yes... the teacher is to teach the students, but you have to work with them at home also.
I can tell you. I am not leaving it up to the teacher to make sure that my child takes the correct courses to get them ready for college. That's my job to guide my child. No the school.
"I can tell you. I am not leaving it up to the teacher to make sure that my child takes the correct courses to get them ready for college. That's my job to guide my child. No the school."
That is precisely how any responsible parent would and should feel.
I agree with you, as I am one of those parents.
Your view here applies beautifully to the argument for those who oppose the new dress code.
I THINK IT IS JUST RIDICULOUS THAT A CHILD IS PUT IN ISS BECAUSE THEY AREN'T WEARING A BELT!!!!! AS LONG AS THEIR PANTS AREN'T SAGGING & SHOWING THEIR BOTTOM THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO WEAR A BELT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nobody'sFool.... Not a teacher. I have great respect for them because I worked with them so much. I was a State Juvenile Probation Officer in the past.
Now you can see why I am very conservative with kids and their liberty. I've seen too many problems when kids are allowed to run wild and when parents seem to think their child does no wrong.
I honestly feel that all posting here who have kids in the Bedford Co System are wanting the best for their kids, just as I do my own children. The parents that caused this mess aren't posting here. We all dressed our children and kept them in line.
I have said before, the previous dress code was not enforceable because it was too vague. The teachers tried to enforce the previous code and the parents of those children were just yelling "You are picking on my child" It's parents like that that made the school system put this code in place.
No... all should not be punished for the actions of a few, but that is life in the schools. One kid may talk out in class so the whole class gets extra work. One kid says something to the coach and the whole team runs. It goes on and on.
I will say this.... I like everyone that post here because you are thinkers. I have no doubt that you are doing the right thing buy your kids, so my comments were never about anyone here. They are more directed at those parents that let their kids run wild.
I will have to agree with you about that. Most of the people on this thread have been able to carry on an intelligent (mostly- Ha!) dialogue about a very controversial subject, without resorting to name-calling and personal attacks.
Ironically, I'm not really sure why I'm so engrossed in this particular thread. My daughter has adapted very well to the new policy, (so far)and hasn't even really complained about the clothes. If she had a choice, she'd wear her old clothes, but when anyone asks her about it, she just shrugs as if it's no big deal. Her only real complaint is about the belt checks. She thinks they're unneccessary and kind of demeaning.
I guess my main issue has been with the fact that the parents of the county never really had a say in the matter and still are not being heard.
I also still worry about excessive enforcement in the form of nit-picking. After all, if you're a frustrated teacher, finding some minute thing wrong with a student's clothing is the perfect way to get them out of your hair for a while.
I also feel that banning the color black across the board (which I believe is county wide?) targeted a specific group of people and is unfair.
I don't know about banning black...
Black is approved for Cascade....
OK, then it must have just been Central. Cascade's school colors are orange and black, right?
My daughter and her friends are all under the impression that the student council was advised not to consider black when they picked the colors that would be allowed at Central.
She doesn't dress all black (or Goth), so it's not like she thinks that she's being singled out. She says that it's common knowledge around the school that the color was restricted in an attempt to force the "goth" kids to blend in.
I have no idea how true this is, but it's what all of the kids are saying amongst themselves.
Many of the students at CHS (most of the ones I've spoken to, anyway) are more upset about the fact that the student council was allowed to pick the colors (instead of the entire school), than about the dress code itself.
Thanks for clarifying that, by the way. I misunderstood what my daughter told me at first.
I am not trying to be sarcastic here but do you even know what the new curriculum even consist of?
I truly would like to know if the schools or teachers have sent home any information on this to the parents. I ask this because I do not have a child young enough for this new curriculum change.
How can a parent plan for their child's courses of study if they have no idea what is required?
All I know about the new is that it supposed to be based on college requirements. I've heard that before, so I am not taking a chance. My daughter and I have already discussed the courses that she is expected to take based on the requirements for higher education in Tennessee. If I see that her courses don't fit those requirements, you better believe that I will be in the guidance counselors office.
Nobody's Fool.... My daughter acts the same way. She doesn't really care. She misses her "other clothes" but with everyone else having to dress to the code, she said it was no big deal.
I knew about the color black and Cascade was the only school allowed because of their school colors. I actually like black and black polo shirts would have looked nice.
And I have to agree with the kids at SCHS. Letting the Student Counsel pick is letting one group of kids set the rule over others. That wasn't right.
Well yea, it has always been college requirements, you either take the university path or the technical path but the new curriculum will effect all Freshman for the year 2009-2010. These will be the new requirements for graduation of High School.
From the way I am reading what I have found on line about the new requirements this will begin to effect Middle School children also.. but it is kind of like reading a tax return. :>)
http://www.tennessee.gov/sbe/2008January...
For freshman orientation last May, Mrs. Edwards did say this was the last year the current curriculum would be in place. I gather then, those enrolled in 9-12 this year are on the retired curriculum, and k-8 will begin the indocterination of the new.
Regarding the curriculum changes in the 2009-2010:
Apparently when the State of Tennessee created its curriculum standards they set their expectations exceedingly low. There is a national test (NAEP - National Assessment of Educational Progress) that measures the knowledge of students from each state with a standard test. Tennessee students who were proficient or better on state assessments performed poorly on the National Assessment. http://www.state.tn.us/sbe/TDP%201-23-08... (see pages 6 & 7)
This is a link the NAEP site:
http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/
It seems as though the entire curriculum is being revamped and skills are being pushed down. For example, it looks as though multiplication which is typically introduced in 3rd grade is being pushed down to 2nd graders.
http://www.state.tn.us/education/ci/curr... (scroll all the way down for the NEW curriculum standards)
I feel like what is happening is that we are introducing a topic to our students and they aren't getting a chance to practice those skills before we move on to another topic. It's fast paced and some students have a hard time keeping up. That isn't the fault of the Bedford Co Board of Education --- it's due to laws and standards that are created by people who aren't and have never been in a classroom.
I teach in the lower grades so in that respect, the new dress code has no impact in my classroom. However, I have a child who has dressed appropriately every day of her school career. Every morning so far this school year, we have dealt with the fact that she feels self-conscious about wearing polos because she believes they don't look good on her. Her right to go school feeling good about herself was taken away. That might not be a big deal to you, but it's everything in her teenaged world.
It's not that I can't afford to buy the new clothes for the dress code, it's that I SHOULDN'T have to! Why should I have to buy clothes she hates? The parents/children who were the problem to begin with should have been dealt with before taking this to the extreme.
EvilMonkey & Darrick thanks for continuing to rock the boat. We need more boat rockers and less sheep in the general population. :)
"Before you accuse the school board of wanting to force kids to drop out because of the dress code, know this: I believe if you check with student services the state is cracking down on dropout rates."
-- Posted by rttr001 on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, at 1:31 PM
Why would the school board care about dropout rates? THEY AREN"T ACCOUNTABLE! This is the problem! We have a man that makes 400,000 dollars per month who is chairman of this committee who is so distant from reality he doesn't even understand that 50% of the population of Bedford County doesn't have a washer or dryer in their home. 75% of Bedford County is below poverty level. 90% of Bedford County students and their parents are against the dress code. The other 10% work for the school system or sleep with someone on the school system.
"We need parents involved in a positive way. Negativity by parents does the kids no good at all. All it amounts to is that parents need to make sure their children are dressed appropriately and they would not be in ISS and losing time in the classroom."
-- Posted by rttr001 on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, at 3:09 PM
Negativity, I warned the board this was going to happen. Know why? It isn't time, lack of money, lack of any standards for education… Just look…
#1 A large majority of parents are against this dress code, it is frivolous, unwarranted, and a pitiful tactic to gain a foothold of oppression against children. The person (Puppetmaster) who decided this is unimaginative and should step forward.
#2 you, as a Puppet, should have realized, this is NOT WORKING. But, since you don't and so far praise the administration so highly, I have a hard time believing you are a teacher. I can pretty much tell because you brown-nose the administration way too much.
Not only do I accuse them, but the facts, lack of planning, credibility of the board members, the total disrespect of anyone's input, the lack of enforcement of the other dress code.
Why should 95% of the student population be treated as inmates because of the lack of the administration's policy during the prior years? So you punish 5000 students (Children) for the laziness of 50 adults? Does that seem absurd?
Are you really that disassociated with reality to understand FARTHER than your cozy little office?
"I think administration at my school has handled that well, but I do not feel for parents who may be economically disadvantaged whose children are wearing $150 shoes and bring $200 ipods to school every day."
-- Posted by rttr001 on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, at 3:09 PM
How do you know those children's parents are economically disadvantaged that have $150 shoes and $200 ipods? You seem bitter about someone having nicer things than you. You can remedy that problem by getting a better job. Remember you have a choice to change jobs, they don't have a choice if they want to go to school or not.
Same Old Story are you a product of the Bedford County School System? The correct spelling is wear when referring to clothing. Also, if you are policing your daughter's clothing why did she wear the wrong belt?
twocents... It was just a little too long and I misjudged, but I didn't blame anyone else. She just doesn't wear that belt.
LOL.... never said I was English major. Spell check was made with me in mind. :)
"Why would the school board care about dropout rates? THEY AREN"T ACCOUNTABLE!"
Yes they are. If our dropout rates go up, then our state funding goes down. That's when the County Court Commission starts asking where the $$$ went.
"90% of Bedford County students and their parents are against the dress code. The other 10% work for the school system or sleep with someone on the school system."
Where do you get your numbers? Did a doctor with a small light find those up there some place?
And I don't work for the school system and I don't sleep with anyone who does?
Maybe I'm missing out. Where's the person I'm supposed to be sleeping with? Do I get to pick the teacher of my choice.
LOL.... Sorry...had to make a joke after watching the Titans offence look bad again.
EvilMonkey & Darrick thanks for continuing to rock the boat. We need more boat rockers and less sheep in the general population. :)
-- Posted by LiveLaughLove on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, at 7:01 PM
Thank you... I will continue to question authority. I have never been afraid, so why stop now? Funny thing is, I have met the majority of these board members personally, as has Evil Monkey. Most are very good people of above average intelligence, but when something doesn't make any sense, regardless of who's decision it is, I question it. They knew parents had issues with it, they faced almost complete opposition, and in the face of those who voiced their opinion and casts those ballots, chose to vote against common sense... The people voicing displeasure are parents who genuinely care about their children.
Ever thought about it this way? The roles of parents and schools have been reversed? Schools now approve the clothing, and parents do the teaching.. i.e. Homework! Hmmm..
I think the curriculum changes are both needed and in fact, a little late. I had a child that went to a state university and on his second day was asked by one of his professors where he went to high school. My son told him he graduated from public school here in TN. He was informed after class that he should consider dropping. He didnt, and sure enough, he was struggling all year trying to learn not only the course, but the lessons he should have received in high school. I do admit it was a particularly hard course, but there were not any classes more advanced that he could have taken here to have more adequately prepared him. Thanks for the information.
I have a question if anyone knows the answer........I hear that Community School's 6th graders got an extra year before they have to start following the dress code, that it won't go into effect for them until next year. Don't know if it is true or not, but if so I am curious as to why. I have a 6th grader at a different school and I think that if they gave that one school an extra year it should be the same for all the sixth graders county wide. Guess "putting all students on equal footing" only applies when it is convenient.
If that is true, it's just another example how Community always gets their way because of the political clout carried by the families in that area.
EvilMonkey,
I think you seem to be pretty intelligient, but you hurt your credibility with your comments by making judgement on others. At least in my opinion. I don't agree with many of your posts, but I have not attacked you or made any judgement against you personally. I'm not sure where you got your numbers, and I really don't care. But once again your personal attacks and passing of judgement just show weakness in my opinion. I'm sorry, but I will keep myself anonymous to protect myself not from the school system, but because I don't have all the facts about this subject and if I make a false statement out of ignorance them I'm still good. Hey I make mistakes. So your ploy to get me to give up my name by questioning my credibility or make me angry is not working.
Wheelbillie
I agree with you that some of the teachers at Liberty do dress down too much. I do NOT think mini skirts are an appropriate dress for anyone at the workplace, especially a teacher!
Evil Monkey
Just one question-
What exactly is your vocation? With all of the self-proclaimed expertise that you post on seemingly each and every topic on the T-G site, you would be a perfect candidate for, let me see, mayor,school superintendent, police chief, all public officials, and don't let me leave out president!!! What an honor it would be to work with your "expertise" and sarcasm each and every day. PLEASE let us know where you work so I can steer clear of it!!!!!!!
If the 6th graders @ Community were allowed another year, I would say it is because they are still part of the elementary school. All other 6th graders in he system are at a school with seventh and eighth graders.
hereyougo,
If you noticed, I don't know anything about botany, so I don't post on the Garden Club blog, but I appreciate you thinking I should run for a political office; it is funny you mentioned that because there have been several elected officials that I have talked with stating the same thing. BUT, if I did that, I would lose a large portion of my business due to a conflict of interest. Therefore, as being an ethical person, I cannot run for an elected office unless I gave up a portion of my business model which I do not plan to do in a LONG LONG time.
On the topic of staying away from me. Thinking about this...
If you have a booger hanging out of your nose and you are getting ready to meet the President of the United States, you would rather me say, "You look great!" Well, then live your life the way you want. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. And almost everyone on here knows what I do... :)
That may be the case because Community does list their Elementary School as k-6.
Actually if the Board wants toplay by the rules it says 6-12 has to abide by the dress code. It doesn't say Middle School and High School only
Actually if the Board wants toplay by the rules it says 6-12 has to abide by the dress code. It doesn't say Middle School and High School only
-- Posted by Dianatn on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 11:39 AM
This should be questioned the next time the school board meets or the TG interviews a member. Since they are so dead set about the smallest of the dress code rules they should make Community go by the dress code in the 6th as well or not make Cascade and Harris 6th students. Regardless of whether it is listed as K-5 or K-6, all the students in a particular grade should have to follow the same rules.
Don't forget about Liberty 6th graders. :)
UH OH, I did forget about Liberty, sorry!
Ok, I'm going to make a final post and give my views and opinions one final time. This is just my opinion and I am not pushing my views on anyone. We are beginning to beat a dead horse from both ends here. As a teacher, I see things from a different view. I'm on the inside and I see what goes on at school on a daily basis. Many have asked "Why was the old dress code not enforced?". It was more vague than the new SSA. Much of the old dress code was based on "judgement calls" by teachers and administration. And honestly, the new SSA is not perfect. There are vague details that need to be addressed. Many have asked "Why change the old dress code?". I think the main reason is to get all schools on "common ground". Once the kinks are ironed out, it should be much easier to address violators and all schools will be consistent. The main reason for the harassment before the Horse Show break was to try and get consistency so that when we come back less time will be spent addressing these issues. As I said in an earlier post, we teachers were very impressed with the results. Most of the harassment was due to no belts, shirt tails too long and sagging pants. I believe another reason for the change is safety. When a student comes to class wearing a long, black trench coat the word "Columbine" comes to mind. Some may say "Oh he is harmless". Do you think the parents and spouses of the students and teachers killed at Columbine may have thought that? Anything can happen at any time even in Bedford Co. The next priority in school besides learning is safety. I think every parent wants their child to be safe. And concerning gangs in Shelbyville, they're here, just ask the SRO officers in the schools. Some of the attire being worn in school the past few years could be related to gang activity. Many of these are what we call "wanna-be's" but how do you truly know? Lastly, I think the SSA was also to try and "clean-up" some of the undesirable ways that students were wearing their clothes and try to promote students to take pride in their appearance. Some may say "Well my child does take pride in wearing "goth" or "hip-hop" or "redneck" styles." Well that may be true, but stereotyping can be a teachers worst enemy. I know teachers are'nt supposed to stereotype, but lets face it, we're human. If a student comes in my class with make-up on that makes them look dead or like a vampire wearing all black with peircings all over their face opposed to a student with a neat appearance. Who do you think I expect the most out of? If you're working in a bank, and a customer comes in with a long, black trench coat on with a red bandana covering his face, would you not be suspicious? On the other hand if a student is wearing a hollister polo and designer jeans worth $100 opposed to a student wearing a polo and jeans from the goodwill store at $15, Why would I stereotype? All the different styles like goth, hip-hop, latino gang have negative connotations associated with them when taken to the extreme. I know that I will get raked for some of these comments but face it, it is a priviledge for the children of the United States to get an education as opposed to some countries whom have no educational opportunities at all. So for all of you who think this dress code is such a communist notion, just be thankful your child is getting an education.
"If a student comes in my class with make-up on that makes them look dead or like a vampire wearing all black with peircings all over their face opposed to a student with a neat appearance. Who do you think I expect the most out of?"-- Posted by rttr001 on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 1:11 PM
"Judgements prevent us from seeing the good that lies beyond appearances."
Wayne Dyer
rttr001
I believe they have medication that helps paranoia!
Did you know you can use a set of keys as a weapon too???? Dont that just scare the crap out of ya!
Oh I like Dr. Wayne Dyer, read quite a few of his books.
"When a student comes to class wearing a long, black trench coat the word "Columbine" comes to mind."
Ok use Fear tactic to enforce oppression tactic ... You even admitted it was harassment. I really don't even know what to think about the school systems or the thought processes of some of our "leaders".
The problem is, we blame the board, the board blames the teachers and the teacher blame the parents. You have to understand when the parents go to the board, the board says we need to support them. Their so called support means: We need to obey everything they dictate; we are not allow to disagree. They are wrong about this, they know it, we know it and you know it!
EVERY parent but 2, that I have talked to HATES the dress code. And I have talked to over 500 of them. So to say that every teacher is for it; is not true. Wait, that might be true because they risk losing their job. Yeah that is most likely why they would be agreeable.
"it is a priviledge for the children of the United States to get an education as opposed to some countries whom have no educational opportunities at all"
But we pay taxes, they don't. It's not a priviledge, it the law. Notice the trend?
Ok, I have to rubuke here. Yes I am somewhat paranoid. Times have changed here. If you disagree then you need medication. I'm not "looking" for trouble all the time, but I am cautious when it comes to the welfare of my children, my spouse or myself. And yes , car keys can be a weapon, so can a spoon for that matter. I'm not familiar with Dr. Wayne Dyer, I will check him out though. Look what I said does sound a bit extreme, but when did "goth" or "hip-hop" become a race or creed. As I said before, they have negative connotations and if you want to take it to the extreme, students wearing Mossy Oak brand clothing could be labeled as animal killers to some. Students who dress in high dollar "preppy" clothing could be labeled as cruel to others who are not as fortunate. So I really don't understand some of the mindset here. A polo or button down shirt, jeans or khakis with a belt. Five different colors of shirts. Any solid color pants, capris or shorts with no cargo pockets. No flip-flops. Why is that so hard to abide by? Many of the students that I spoke with liked it because its not a guessing game every morning with what they are going to wear. And BTW, the comments I made are not slams against the "goth" population out there but I'm telling you when a student comes to school wearing multiple piercings, purple hair, a shirt that says "God Hates Me". These are distractions. Tell me, you think that promotes a positive learning environment when the students are preoccupied with chatter about what Johnny or Sue is wearing today to "buck" the system. I have no problem with individuality and I challenge anyone to be different but the extreme measures some take to be different are what caused this dress code in the first place. If you want your kid to be different encourage them to dress however they want outside of school.
Ok EvilMonkey, why don't you move to Ethiopia or Somolia and not pay taxes and see how you like it. I'm sorry but we are the most "priviledged" country in the world in my opinion. That's exactly why folks like you can whine and cry about a simple dress code.
Oh and one more thing EvilMonkey. Since you are forced by the puppetmasters to send your child to school, why don't you consider homeschooling? Free country eh?
So, your solution is for me to leave? Nope, not going to happen. Still didn't seem to have answers to the questions that I posed. So you simply say leave.
Remember you brought up the other countries, not me. You have no answers, just excuses.
You are mad at a particular child's extremes but you state the administration's extremes are just fine. Why? OH because it benefits you directly by given you ammunition to use against that particular child if you find ONE little problem with the way he/she dresses.
Everyone sees it by the way you talk, and what you state. If you don't have a logical explanation, you just tell someone to leave. LOL so mature. Probably just like you do your children in the classroom. If they don't agree with you, just kick them out. Oh is that how the board is with the children that don't want to conform to a certain way of dressing? Bah we just kick them out of school. They don't deserve an education because we don't like the way they dress.
That is exactly what you have been stating this entire time. You condone this level of thought process. Rules don't seem to apply to school board or the administration.
"wearing multiple piercings, purple hair,"
This was not allowed during the previous dress coode. Was it?
Personally, I'm grossed out by multiple face piercings (I would find it distracting. Plus, I'd be wincing whenever I made eyecontact). So, I try not to look when I visit Starbucks. And I don't mind purple hair, I'd prefer green streaks in mine. However, I haven't made the plunge because students could not. :)
So, if multiple piercings and purple hair were not on the old policy, why were they not sent home as being unacceptable. I know a student (he graduated last May) that had multiple piercings. He KNEW he couldn't go to school like that, so he took them out and didn't wear them to school. So, it was enforced at his school (Cascade). It's the ones (5%) you let slide for whatever reason that brings the whole deck of cards crumbling down. Ever heard of the word NO? Well, the teachers and principals of these schools need to learn to say it and call parents. I understand parents can be the problem some time, but after so many absences, the state will step in and lets see how many parents want to go before the courts to explain how they're letting their kids dress this way and why they keep getting sent home and missing school.
That's what I was thinking neighborhood mom~ I'm surprised someone with multiple piercings and purple hair were even in the classroom under the previous dress code.
Well I know right now that this will be a VERY long comment. So here goes......
Ok, first of all, we students should not be made to wear UGLY clothes. Especially if we don't want to. I mean seriously, what harm is it going to do if I wore flip flops to school??? I see girls every day at SCHS wearing flip flops and open toed heels to school, but do they ever get sent to the office for it??? NO! So why ban flip flops if no one is enforcing that rule anyways? And the belt-checks? That's just retarded. I think teachers need to mind their own business about whether I'm wearing a belt or an undershirt. If I say I'm wearing one, shouldn't they trust me enough to believe that I'm wearing one? I'm a whole 5' 3" so I'm pretty short compared to most kids at school. ALL of my jeans have frayed ends because I'm so short that I have to walk on them. What am I supposed to do about that? Wear high-waters? I don't think so. And ISS? My sisters have only been in trouble once or twice their entire lives. They have honestly been in more trouble in the last 2 weeks than ever before. Monday, August 11th. 25% of Harris Middle School was in the gym for dress code violations. My sisters were there, too, for not wearing belts. The school made my dad stop working and come home and get belts for them or they would put them in ISS. I personally haven't been in trouble yet because I try not to be, but I really, really HATE being forced to wear the stupid dress code. And how about this whole "school is a privilage" idea? If school was a privilage, we wouldn't be forced to go. Why do all the teachers tell us it's a privilage to be there? If we go, we get told it's a privilage. On the other hand, if we don't go, we get in trouble for truancy and our parents go to jail. What's wrong with this picture??? I think there was absolutely NOTHING wrong with the old dress code. This new one is just WAY too much trouble for everyone to put up with. And I wouldn't say that 1 shirt is cheap if it costs $7.50 just for that one shirt. And blue jeans aren't cheap when you pay $15-$20 dollars for a single pair of jeans. You have to pay more for the clothes when you get older and don't fit kids' jeans anymore, but to make us get the most expensive thing on the rack just because it fits the dress code? That's messed up. Like on Channel 2. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!!! Well, anyways...This whole thing takes time away from class. I can't learn when the teachers can't teach because they're too busy checking dress code 4 and 5 times a day. STUPID! And Evil Monkey, I can say that I agree with EVERYTHING you have said. :)
Ok terrortiffany10.... so what did you ware to school before the dress code was in place? And you are not being honest on the flip flops. The only girls that were allowed the wear flip flops were the girls that had to change at the end of the day for soccer practice. They can't wear their cleats in the school, so they put flipflops on until they go outside.
And what's your issue with belts. Don't you want your pants to stay up?
Evil Monkey.... Let me guess...Democrat?
I'd just like to take a moment to commend terrortiffany10 on having better grammar and spelling than a lot of the adults who post on this site!
Ha!
I do agree with no flip flops. Not allowing flp flops is a valid safety issue. In crowded hallways, the backs get stepped on (by someone othr than the wearer) causing an accicent. Stepped on bare toes are also quite painful. In the need of an evacuation, they could hinder the wearer from moving quickly or again if the backs were stepped on could cause a pile up.
sameoldstory,
No, but I take it your a Communist?
I do agree with no flip flops. Not allowing flp flops is a valid safety issue. In crowded hallways, the backs get stepped on (by someone othr than the wearer) causing an accicent. Stepped on bare toes are also quite painful. In the need of an evacuation, they could hinder the wearer from moving quickly or again if the backs were stepped on could cause a pile up.
-- Posted by im just sayin' on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 9:53 PM
So, since Malls, Wal-Mart, Kroger, local convenient stores and beaches are all public places shouldn't we ban flip flops there too? I mean after all, we need to protect people from their selves... Haha.. Right.
Pens and Pencils are a safety hazard too you could poke somebody's eye out with those things...guess we need to ban those from schools too :>)
No, I'm just sayin from overcrowded school hallways. I've never been in a mall or on a beach as crowded as a school hallway.
I'm just making a point if any of the dress code is a safety issue: I certainly think a flip flop ban is the most valid.
EvilMonkey,
Don't get me wrong, I have never said the dress code was perfect. Yes, there are still matters that need to be addressed. You make it sound as though teachers and administration are getting off on sending kids out of class. Trust me, I DO NOT want to put any student out of my classroom. I DO NOT enjoy this as you make it sound. And I am not mad at any student's extremes, worried? yes. And I'm not using the dress code to pick on certain kids. The ones out of compliance bring that upon themselves. These students need to be accountable for their actions. That is a major problem. That is one reason why not as many teachers give homework as they once did. There is no remorse shown by some students and basically they would rather fail than do homework. The accountability level of students today is at an all-time low and I'm not sure that can be fixed. Many of the students will turn out just fine once they grow up a little. I guess I'm a little old school but I was raised to respect authority. And most of my students are very respectful. And I'm not telling you to leave EvilMonkey, just understand that as long as you live in the USA, you will probably pay taxes and someone or some entity will always be in authority. I'm not saying you have to bow down to it, but you must obey the laws. And when a child is at school they are at the mercy of the rules just like when you're on the street you are at the mercy of the law. I know, big difference in breaking the law and breaking a dress code. But where does it end? If the children of today are not conditioned to abide by rules what are they going to do on the streets? I really do believe that if your not satified with something, state your opinion. It is your right in the USA to do so. So go ahead EvilMonkey drag this comment through the mud just like you have the rest.
And good job on the grammar and spelling terrortiffany10. Maybe us teachers got something right after all.
I still do not see why no one is defending the purple or green hair and the piercings. The old dress code was just as rotten as this one is in my opinion. Just because someone makes you uncomfortable, does not mean we should collectively attempt to make them more acceptable to you, for only your benefit. The last time I checked, green hair and piercings were not criminal. If a child goes to school exposing enough of themselves to be criminal, then by all means, the administration as well as the police should have the ability to correct it. However, short of a criminal act, if a kids parents are okay with it, no one else should care, period-end of story. Other people who have a problem with how someone looks (not acts, but LOOKS), should probably address their own prejudices and predispositions and then, try really hard to be a little less judgmental. Maybe if you worried less about others and more about yourself, you could be a little more content in your own life.
I am sorry, but Barry Cooper and his board really need to get out the kids closets, and get into their brains. I do not know how such successful people could be so threatened by some kids looking different than they do.
rttr001, I wonder if you lie in bed at night fearing that some dark skinned kids are going to come and get you. The "gangs" you refer to, are kids that feel alienated by people like yourself. They feel alienated because they are in fact marginalized, discounted and threatened. They realize that they are not accepted by parts of society. We could easily have real gangs in the near future. Gangs that were formed to combat the feelings that people, like you appear to be, confront them with every day.
Dianatn and darrick_04,
Come on now even though schools are public places you can't categorize them with malls and Wal-Mart. I guess we should just put couches and loungers in our classrooms and put in McDonalds and Burger King for good measure. SCHOOL IS SCHOOL. It should not be categorized. Public school means that children within the general public population are given the right to attend school free of cost. And Dianatn, students know what to do with pencils and pens and yes they could be used for weapons. But don't you think its a little narrow-minded to relate that to flip-flops. I mean do you really think someone could use a piece of foam to do bodily harm? I think that im just sayin was talking about accidents.
These are all local crimes. Funny, these people didn't seem to be dressed 'goth-like'.
Wonder what that means? Some of them actually look like they may be wearing acceptable "standard attire"--like they are responsible, every day citizens.
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story...
Notice the shirt this guy is wearing--polo shirt(not solid but not goth either)
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story...
not goth--wearing normal everyday shirts
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story...
again, not goth
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story...
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story...
"He left on foot. The suspect is described as a white man who is his 40s. He is balding with a graying beard and mustache. He is about 5 feet 9 inches tall with a heavy build. He wore a white shirt with horizontal blue stripes and blue jeans."
rttr001,
So... Do flip flops really take away from the ability to learn? That is such a laughable stance to defend. Btw, you still won't tell us which school you work at. Am I surprised? Nope...
And Dianatn, students know what to do with pencils and pens and yes they could be used for weapons. But don't you think its a little narrow-minded to relate that to flip-flops. I mean do you really think someone could use a piece of foam to do bodily harm? I think that im just sayin was talking about accidents.
-- Posted by rttr001 on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 11:55 PM
Gee you are paranoid I never said the word weapon did I? Accidents happen with pens and pencils all the time.
And last time I checked students knew what to do with Flip Flops too.
memyselfi,
I'm not saying that I am offended by piercings. I'm saying that when taken to the extreme it is a distraction and should have no place in school. Some of you feel that I am directing my opinions to the general public. I'm talking about school, not the streets. Big difference. If I see a student out of school and they have 20 piercings on thier face......big deal. I have friends who have piercings or tattoos. I'm strictly talking about school here which I think some of you seem to compare to Wal-Mart. And also the whole thing about being forced into a gang because they are alienated or feel threatened. What a load of crap. I threaten no one. Maybe the gang members should clean-up get a job and quit selling drugs. Gangs and thugs are mostly a product of the environment they were raised in. They see daddys and uncles in gangs and they feel they should do the same. Many of these people have had no guidance at all and nothing positive in their lives. I just don't buy the "blame it on the man" mentality. Everyone is accountable for their actions.
Okay, so where did these daddies and uncles come from? Are you taking the position that we have had gangs here for 20 years? The daddies that have grown too old to be selling drugs and gangbanging are now leaving it to the kids? You really do not know what you are talking about. I hope you are not going to take the position that every kid selling drugs migrated here? Are you? "clean up your act" is in fact threatening and prejudiced if you are basing your judgment of an individuals "act" on their appearance.
School is not Wal-Mart, but it is not the administrations (or your) Barbie playhouse either. It seems to me that we should be looking at peoples actions as opposed to their appearances. How something appears can be deceiving. For example you appear to be a bigoted and opinionated self absorbed tyrant. I am sure that is not the case though.
darrack_04,
Nope, I will keep myself anonymous. Why do you care anyway? Does this affect you? If I give myself up will it affect you? No, but I guarantee that you ruthless folks on here would be on my name like a pack of wolves. Like I said earlier these are my opinions and BTW the school system holds nothing over me concerning the dress code. It may not be perfect now, but I do support it. Does wearing cargo pants or a trench coat affect one's ability to learn? No, but they may be good places to hide a weapon and thats a safety issue just like getting your feet stepped on in the hallways. And yes Dianatn, I'm going to be paranoid. Because I CARE about the safety of my students. Do I lose sleep because I'm worried about someone breaking in my home or am I afraid to walk through Wal-Mart parking lot? No. But when at school my guard is up because you never know what might happen. I guess if any of you had a child to get injured at school the first to blame would be the school? Right? Thats why we strive to make school a safe environment. Things happen and believe me, I have seen a lot.
memyselfi,
I'm speaking in general terms about gangs and poverty, not just Shelbyville. And yes appearance and behavior can be related. Not in all cases and I never said otherwise. Yes, many of the students that are breaking the dress code are habitual troublemakers. And yes many of the students in my classes who suddenly dissappear during the year after being arrested do in fact dress to the extreme in some way or another whether it be hip-hop or gothic. What if you see someone driving a big 4x4 with a rebel flag flying and a "long live the south" license plate? You probably think "man what a redneck bigot. Right? So whats the difference for a person to associate someone in goth attire with drugs or sadism or satanism? Or someone with clothing three sizes too big with their hat on sideways with selling drugs or gang activity. Thats the nature of society. Maybe its wrong, but its there. Society was born of diversity and there will always be prejudice. If schools do not enforce some sort of dress code it will ultimately lead to problems. Yes the new code is strict and as I said its not perfect. But maybe, just maybe this will take some, not all, of the prejudice and stereotyping out of school. Because I just do not think that it belongs there.
rttr001, I actually do not dispute some of what you have written in your last comment. The difference between our views however, is that you are trying to advance the position that the kids who do not look like what you would consider to be "the type" (you know, the ones that look respectable to you) have different values and morals than the rest. It appears to me, as if you are saying that if they all dress the same, they will all be the same. I have dealt with many types of people as peers. I can tell you for certain, that you can not judge a book by its cover. I think a lot of times people in a position of authority find trouble exactly where they expect it. That does not mean that is the only place it could have been found, that is just where they happened to have been looking. I would be willing to bet that there are a higher percentage of WASP school-aged children selling drugs in our community than any other demographic. Most of them also happen to dress in a nice pleasant conservative manner. I can say that with a degree of certainty from my own personal experience. To believe otherwise is wishful thinking. I mean we are talking about kids here. Do you think that doing/selling drugs is free or even cheap? Most people who sell are just trying to pay for a percentage of their use. I am afraid your stereotype of impoverished and neglected children pushing drugs to everyone else plays out somewhat differently in real life.
As a teacher, I would much rather you consider why any given student is dressing in the fashion they are, as opposed to condemning them and reactively assuming the worst, just because they may not be necessarily appealing to you. Being a teacher, I do not guess I am telling you something new, but your students do not have an identity yet. A lot of kids try on several before they get comfortable with themselves. Any way you slice it, a child is the same no matter what they wear. If one of the children you have bonded to and care for came in one day Goth, it should not change your opinion of them, should it? Our face, our hair and our clothing are external features that in no way accurately reflect what is on the inside. To discount the inside based on any one of these external features is insanity in my opinion.
I also wonder when I hear about classroom distractions, if we are talking about the other kids being distracted or the teachers. I imagine the children do not think much of it.
What exactly was the Old Dress Code? Perhaps it was not enough to cover the Gothic, Gangsta, ethnic, muslim, or revealing body parts clothing. And also maybe their was a fear of the schools being charged with discrimination of religion, race, cultural, beleif, or freedom of expression and speach, or stereotyping. So to avoid anyone acusing the school of discrimination, everyone is made to wear the same things. But even with everyone wearing the same things their still seems to be nick-picking problems with other kids now.
Why was this dress code made? Safety issues? Just how much safer are our kids now than they where before the new SSA? They said baggy clothes can be a possible hiding spot for guns, knives, or drugs. Well their book-bags, purses, and even some shoes can be used to hide these same items. Items they use in school can be used as weapons also, (Pencils, pens, scissors, forks from the cafeteria, you name it all kinds of things can be used as a weapon) So what really should have been done to HELP remedy this problem? "THE SCHOOLS" should have metal detectors just like some court houses and airlines do. That would have been more smarter (IMO). They could also have the drug dogs in the area to sniff out any drugs in the schools. Gang colors could not have been an issue because they kept some gang colors in the SSA. Besides they have other ways of throwing and representing their gangs than colors of clothing. So the SAFETY ISSUE STILL IS NOT SOLVED, I'm sorry to say.
Distracting Clothes, what exactly was distracting about the clothes? Pants hanging off the but showing boxers, too much cleavage or butt crack showing? Call the parents to come pick them up, and tell them their child is dressed indescent for school showing things that don't need to be seen by others, that they must dress descent or be suspended from school. Simple to do. Now all the other clothing, as long as it is not promoting violence, drugs, alcohol, hate, any kind of crime, or with insulting writtings or pictures that is distracting the class then it should be allowed.
Too much emphasis on what children are wearing and not enough on their education. That is what we are sending them their for. Not Boot camp. I'm all for calling the parents to come and get their child and tell them to clean up the indescency and disrespectfulness of their childs clothes, putting metal detectors in the schools, and then get back to work and concentrating on the education.
"The ones out of compliance bring that upon themselves. These students need to be accountable for their actions. That is a major problem."
But are the school administrators or the board accountable for their actions? No. That is the REAL major problem. They can't take advice that was beneficial and would have solved some issues. You can't lie to us; we aren't idiots.
You never answered the questions. You are not a teacher, you are a Board of Education pencil pusher.
rttr001, Hip Hop culture is about music artistry and dance. You have musical artist such as P-Diddy, and Jay-Z, this type of music also blends with other different music, such as rock and roll, and even country. It has artist that sing R & B music and Hip Hop such as Chris Brown, Usher, Ne-Yo, and R. Kelley. These people do not promote violence, and dress very well in jeans and suits as well.
Gansta Rappers are the ones that dress with their pants hanging on their buttocks, and brag about their money, bling, cars, and women. They talk about where they from and what they will do to you if you step out of line. These are the ones that speak of violence, drugs, and crime. Young struggling boys tend to follow their trends because they can relate to the struggle of not succeeding in life, and having to make or take what they can get and want. Some do it just because they like the Bad Boy, Gansta look and style, but do not live the life.
Hip Hop style will have celebrity like Name Brand clothes and Shoes, flashy type or colorful clothing, with everything matching shirts, pants, shoes, sometimes socks, jewelry, and of course their favorite cologne. This is Ethnic style dressing. Their pants may be like pleated baggies, but they do not hang on or under the butt. These clothes are expensive, unless you buy Knock-offs, they look nice and give the same feel but cost less. Hip - Hop music is more of a beat song, that makes you want to get up and dance it has some bragging in it as well but is not like the gansta rap songs. Not all rap is gansta, but alot more is becoming gangsta style.
I don't think Hip Hop style was a problem with the dress code, unless the school board has a problem with all ethnic style clothing period; I think it is more of the "Gansta style clothing" being worn by not only minorities. That style is said to be a representation of a thug that has got out of prison. The clothes he wore when he went in is now to big for him when he comes out. He lost alot of weight while in prison pumping iron.
"No, but I take it your a Communist?"
LOL..... No, but I live in the real world. I just don't get it. Why are you opposed to a little thing like a dress code? If clothes really don't matter, then why all the fuss?
So I have to guess that you feel a dress code is taking away freedom? No shirt, no shoes, no service? Your freedom just got taken away.
What's so wrong with trying to make kids dress like they have respect for themselves? The parents wouldn't do it, so the school system stepped in. Everyone keeps harping about the OLD CODE. As I have said before, if they were to try and enforce the old code, the lawsuits would have cost us a ton of money. It was too wide open to be enforceable.
School is for learning and getting yourself ready for the real world. Does the real world let you dress as you wish? Only if you are the boss and don't care about the image your business projected.
Momof3&3step&1gran,
Nice post. I never said that I was out to get anyone in baggy clothes. I just think sometimes the extremes give the rest a bad name. I have let my personal opinions get in the way of the real issue and I apologize. But I still agree with sameoldstory, Bedford Co. needed to clean-up the way students were dressing.
EvilMonkey,
So since you have your own business, do you dress in a professional manner? What is your normal dress? And what did your kids wear before the SSA was imposed?
One more thing concerning costs of clothing that is SSA approved. There are outlet malls within 30-40 miles of Shelbyville where you can get brand name clothing very cheap. Jeans $10. Polos $5-7. So you could outfit a child for the year on less than $100. These shirts and jeans may have minor issues with stitching or small abnormalities, but hey they're cheap. I buy them myself. And if everyone else is wearing the same why should a child care where they came from.
Dianatn and darrick_04,
Come on now even though schools are public places you can't categorize them with malls and Wal-Mart. I guess we should just put couches and loungers in our classrooms and put in McDonalds and Burger King for good measure. SCHOOL IS SCHOOL. It should not be categorized.
Public school means that children within the general public population are given the right to attend school free of cost.
And Dianatn, students know what to do with pencils and pens and yes they could be used for weapons. But don't you think its a little narrow-minded to relate that to flip-flops. I mean do you really think someone could use a piece of foam to do bodily harm? I think that im just sayin was talking about accidents.
-- Posted by rttr001 on Fri, Aug 29, 2008, at 11:55 PM
Let me tell you...School is NOT FREE...it costs me MORE every year in my taxes that pay those salaries. Not to mention all the "extras"!
Also, btw, if your child IS injured at school, MAKE SURE you advise the school that you have NO insurance! My son was injured 2 years ago (neck was stepped on by several kids after he fell) and the school was shocked that we wanted him to go to the hospital and that we wanted an ambulance called. Thank goodness he was ok. But when I inquired about them submitting an insurance claim, they (school and board) told us we had to submit it thru our insurance first! So, because my child was injured on YOUR watch, my insurance has to be penalized before your insurance will kick in and cover the unpaid portion. Go figure.
I do understand the flipflop issue, but when you're not enforcing it for everyone, there's a problem. "The girls wear them at the end of the day because they can't wear their cleats"...that's crap. There are slipon shoes they could be wearing. How do they wear them if they've got their socks/shin guards on?
I just think they could have "tried harder" to enforce the old policy. Other schools did...why was it so hard for certain schools to enforce it? Again, it comes down to principals and teachers. And don't tell me it was to "vague"...that's a copout. I'd really like to see an "honest" newspaper story about it, instead of the one-sided ones we are getting.
rttr001,
I am not going to sarcastic, I actually slept a full 5 hours straight, so I am going to be as civil as possible about this. Seriously I am.
Why are you so FOR the dress code? You stated from the beginning there were only a small percentage of violators, why punish everyone? Why should I be forced to pay $200 or more, Yes, it really is that much, because kids do grow. Between 45 and 50% of the counties population do not have washers and dryers in their home. That is another cost that wasn't added into the equation.
The school board stated there were be plenty of clothes at walmart so we wouldn't have to drive 20-40 miles to find clothes. There are so many equations that you aren't thinking about, you are thinking how only YOU are affected. Not the entire general populace of this county. Have you not noticed, alot of people saying I am correct by my assessment of the situation? I gave the benefit of the doubt, but I wanted some concessions on the final draft, they were not added. It compounded the problem when they didn't add them.
Because I am professional, and know my job well, I wear a T-shirt with various graphics, from video games to computer franchises to non-profit organizations. If I am going to the opera or orchestra, a tux. A campaign benefit, depends on the type, dinner, it would be a suit. When I was in college, Whatever I wanted from tank tops to cargo shorts to t-shirts and jeans. When I am working, jogging pants and a t-shirt. People don't judge me by the way I dress. My hair is clean, but styled "messy". Yesterday, I wore a find-missing-children.org t-shirt and levi's, I am comfortable financially and professional, and the clients I deal with never seem to have a complaint. I guess my work and my word is enough for them to make a positive decision.
931-536-1279 if you care to call. It is local.
sameoldstory,
Real world eh? Well if your Barry Cooper and make $400,000 a month, that isn't the real world life of 99.990% of Bedford County residents. Taking away my freedom? No, it is placing un-needed financial stress on parents, it places children in a state of fear over "minor" infractions, it allows teachers and administrators to abuse their authority to punish students. Didn't you read the first hand account of several students already in this thread? 25% of Harris on the first FULL day of school was sitting in the gym ALL day. <=== IF this is living in the real world, KILL ME NOW. It is oppression.
The basis on the OLD dress code would not bring up lawsuits, if dealt with correctly. The "You will do as I say NOW!", doesn't work. When I teach classes in Nashville twice a month to dropouts on MS Office, I treat them as adult until they act like children. I ask them to not chew gum because I lead an open forum so they don't have to raise their hand, they just ask the question. Did you know they still raise their hand because I treat them fairly as give them actual viable reason for the set rules? I have had only 1 problem and I found out the child's medication had stopped taking effect on him, I called his mom and asked what he was taking and properly talked to the child outside in the hall and stated his medication was losing the effectiveness and for him to be aware of it. The kid made extra effort to behave because I respected him. I had to do this first before they would respect me. Why did I do it this way? Because it works.
931-536-1279 if you care to call also.
neighborhood mom,
there is real information out there, you just need to do a search.
Evil Monkey...I meant a real "honest" story in the TG...I know there's other info out there, but every story in the TG leans toward the School Board. (Of course.) They don't give both sides of it.
One more thing concerning costs of clothing that is SSA approved. There are outlet malls within 30-40 miles of Shelbyville where you can get brand name clothing very cheap. Jeans $10. Polos $5-7. So you could outfit a child for the year on less than $100. These shirts and jeans may have minor issues with stitching or small abnormalities, but hey they're cheap. I buy them myself. And if everyone else is wearing the same why should a child care where they came from.
-- Posted by rttr001 on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 8:26 AM
Do you know how many people don't have a car or cannot afford to go those 30-40 miles to look for "approved" clothes?! And the key word is look...how many people on this thread have said they've looked at MULTIPLE stores and still not found the correct clothes?! So, how many trips is that X how much money for gas?! It's not adding up in my book!
rttr001
My grandson was wearing a pair jeans that had thread flaw (on one front pocket about an inch long and maybe 1/16" wide), he (after his shirt was raised to see if he wore a belt, which he was) was sent to ISS. He is not sent to school to be baby sat or just to get him out of the house. He WANTS to learn, he LOVED going to school. He an many other children are now more worried and scared about if they will be sent to ISS and not the class room. It is a shame (on ALL concerned fashion patrol) that THEY (fashion patrol) are responsible for the now children left behind. So would you please expain to ALL of us, how it is that some children and teachers can wear jeans that have thread flaws, can go straight to class and others are sent to ISS. Is it "special" treatment or is it fair judgement? Really, please answer my question. Some children are truly serious about their education and want to futher it with college. How can adults, particularly educators, expect children to continue their willingness and egarness to learn if they are not presented with prepared teachers who are egar and willing to teach?
From my understanding a flip flop is a shoe you can hold in your hand and if it flops when you wave it in the air it is a flip flop.
Shoes that are open toed or have hard soles even though they look just like flip flops are ok.
So please tell me the difference in the safety factor here?
We both know there is no difference. It isn't about safety it is about control plain and simple.
Except in price they are the same shoe: Foam flip flops $3.00 Hard soled flip flops $15.00
The dress code has certainly caused a buzz in our community. When water cooler talk at work starts revolving around something other than the normal coworker gossip, you know you have a hot topic.
I would like to see the case studies that were done that helped determine the decision to adopt the new dress code policy. I would be most interested to see how it affected the students in the two years immediately following graduation.
If I were a betting man, I would bet that there isn't a lot of differentiation between students who attended a school with one as opposed to one that did not have one.
I am bothered more about this decision from a patriotic stand point than anything else. If I wanted to live in a socialist environment, I would move to a county that is governed by a socialist leadership and laws. America has long been touted as the "Land of Opportunity", with the foundation of that being that we are all given the same opportunity to make choices that affect each of our lives. Part of what makes America America is the diversity that we have. That includes the rich, the poor, the elite, the middle and lower classes. It is a fact of life.
By adopting a dress code like the one that we have right now we are setting our children up for more challenges once they graduate than they already have because we think we are protecting them from elitism, etc. The cold truth is that in the real world, once they leave the confines of their alma mater halls, they are still going to be faced with the fact that not everybody is of the same social class, not everybody can afford clothes from Hollister, and not everybody has a wardrobe that rivals Paris Hilton. Similar to the "preacher's kid" mentality- once the kids are out on their own, if they have lived a protected life, they are going to be inclined to rebel. I think this dress code is setting our children up for disappointment.
If anyone for one minute thinks that the kids still don't know the difference between a 40.00 polo and a 9.00 one, then that person is deluding themself. There is still going to be class differentation, there are still going to be the trouble makers, there are still going to be bullies. Students will still find a way to be different. To think otherwise is naive.
The fact that ISS shows up on the studen't permanent records in itself is harmful- what are we setting them up for in the future? Breeding an environment of fear and resentment will only lead to that anger finding an outlet somewhere- or at the least, defeatism.
I am able to afford the more expensive clothes for my children. That hasn't always been the case-so since I have been on both ends of the spectrum-I feel I can make this statement. I always knew that as the parent, I had the opportunity that every other parent had to provide for my child. It was up to me to be as successful as I wanted to be. Every other person has that same right. That is life. When the kids get out of school, do you think it makes any difference in the long run? They go to college or the workplace and they are going to see people of all different shapes and sizes, wearing all kinds of different clothes- and if they are disappointed because they dont fit in, then it is our fault because it is what we taught them. So, I think there will be many students with issues once they get out of school because of this dress code because they haven't had to deal with reality.
So, i would like to see a study four years from now for the people in ninth grade now to see what kinds of difference it made. I would venture to guess it won't be positive, if at all.
neighborhood mom,
You are correct but there is another site that gives the other side.
All of these complaints go back to one thing. There will always be a group of people that are against everything. They will question every rule and then try to form some elitist opinion as to why they are oppressed to the new rule.
The same people that fuss about the dress code would be the same people raising a stink if one kid took a studded blacelet, wrapped it around his knuckles and beat the snot out of another kid. (Yes..... it's happened. I had the kid on probation that did it. Took 16 stitches to close up the other kid's face.)
"Why didn't they (the school) do something to stop this?" I'm sure if the school purchased metal detectors, you same parents would say your child's rights were being violated because of this search. Then, if a kid brings a gun to school you would be asking "why doesn't the school have metal detectors?" The same parents fussed about "waisting tax dollars for the SRO program" but let a fight break out and your child is getting jumped by 5 other kids, you are going to be glad that cop was in school.
All of this whining about kids scared of school and kids being oppressed. We went to school when a teacher could slap the crap out of you when you talked back. Did I like that? No....Did I feel safe in my school? Yes....because rules were set and strictly enforced and the punishment received at school was just doubled when we got home. Therefore we didn't get out of line. The kids that did were put on the strait and narrow or put out of school. Now you have pregnant 8th graders? In the past, those girls would not be allowed in school and their parents would be ashamed to let them out in public. Go to Oakland High School and they had to put in a freaking day care center so the high school mommies could visit their kids during the day. Is that what you want your public school tax dollars going for?
Over the years, parents went from supporting their schools to accusing their schools at every turn. In the mean time, the kids started to discover that no matter what they did wrong, mommy and daddy would bail them out. All you are doing is making your child soft and weak. These are the same kids that I see at 23 who get fired within the first few weeks of work because no one told them to keep their mouth shut and not talk back to the boss. (One girls father called me at work to say that I am not being fair to his daughter. The girl was 23 and her daddy was still trying to cover up for her! She never made it to work on time and wasn't dressed appropriately when she did make it. Her father should have been telling her that it was her fault and she should follow the rules.) No one told them how they should dress for business. (
Again.... you want to blame someone for this dress code? Blame yourself for either letting your child push the limits too far or not stepping up when another parent was letting their child push the limits.
Kids under 16 rarely have jobs and make their own money so they sure didn't have the money to buy goth, hip-hop or hooker attire, so the parents had to buy it. If they would have said NO in the first place, then a dress code would never have been needed.
sameoldstory,
Actually blame the 2% that violated the last dress code, you can't blame me for my child. But since you keep bringing up past experiences about yourself. You had a choice to hire the 23 year old, That was your fault. So, you are or were a probation officer, You are dealing with criminals NOT School children.
Lets take this to your extreme, ALL Dress Codes according to sameoldstory should now must include Chastity Belts to be worn on the OUTSIDE of the clothes to prevent teenage pregnancy centers within out schools.
Why do you think parents went from supporting the schools to accusing them? Maybe it is because the schools are unable to give our children the education we are paying for? Maybe they aren't supporting the parents? You know this goes both ways here. It seems the only solution is mass control instead of mass discussion?
Your analogies are somewhat biased because of your chosen profession; you always see the worst case scenario.
Citizenkane made alot of sence. The very ones of us that are making all these comments, unless we went to a private school, dressed with what our parents could afford us. There are some mighty powerful people out there that who, even though were not dressed by "required" or regulated clothing. I have said many times that we are living more and more in a socialist country, we are being dictated to and told what we can and can not do. I realize that I may not be the sharpest tack in the box, but I can not help but believe, that there is strength in numbers and voices carry volume. Yet, "we" all sit back and let decisions be made that affect our every day lives and we choose to be silent then start screaming when our rights are taken away. Can we not "all" come together and stand up (at least) at a few of these meetings and let our voices be heard. Or do we choose to sit silently by and let some peckerwood tell us what we are or are not going to do!
Some of you, that have responed to this article, are very smart people and could be wonderful leaders. There are some of us that might not have the leadership skills that others have, but we can certainly be good followers and carry out direction. Maybe it is time for us to start participating to try to make differences and ensure that we are all equal and to stand up for what is right......I think that we should start with our children and the elderly that are being stepped over and left behind with no regard of consideration or concern.
References
David L. Brunsma, D.L. and Rockquemore, K.A. (1998) Effects of Student Uniforms on Attendance, Behavior Problems, Substance Abuse, and Academic Achievement, The Journal of Education Research Volume 92, Number 1, Sept./Oct. 1998, pp. 53-62
School Uniforms
This study was first published in the:
The Journal of Education Research
(Volume 92, Number 1, Sept./Oct. 1998, pp. 53-62)
by David L. Brunsma, University of Alabama
and Kerry A. Rockquemore, Notre Dame.
under the title:
Effects of Student Uniforms on Attendance, Behavior Problems, Substance Abuse, and Academic Achievement.
In one sentence, this study showed that uniforms did NOT lead to an improvement in attendance, behavior, drug use, or academic achievement.
Abstract
Mandatory uniform policies have been the focus of recent discourse on public school reform. Proponents of such reform measures emphasize the benefits of student uniforms on specific behavioral and academic outcomes. Tenth grade data from The National Educational Longitudinal Study of 1988 was used to test empirically the claims made by uniform advocates. The findings indicate that student uniforms have no direct effect on substance use, behavioral problems, or attendance. Contrary to current discourse, the authors found a negative effect of uniforms on student academic achievement. Uniform policies may indirectly affect school environments and student outcomes by providing a visible and public symbol of commitment to school improvement and reform.
Brunsma and Rockquemore wanted to investigate the extraordinary claims being made about how wonderful school uniforms are, particularly from the Long Beach California. It was being claimed that mandatory uniform policies were resulting in massive decreases (50 to 100 percent) in crime and disciplinary problems.
It is typically assumed, as exemplified in Long Beach, that uniforms are the sole factor causing direct change in numerous behavioral and academic outcomes. Those pronouncements by uniform proponents have raised strident objections and created a political climate in which public school uniform policies have become highly contested. The ongoing public discourse is not only entrenched in controversy but also largely fueled by conjecture and anecdotal evidence. Hence, it now seems critical that empirical analysis should be conducted to inform the school uniform debate. In this study, we investigated the relationship between uniforms and several outcomes that represent the core elements of uniform proponent's claims. Specifically, we examined how a uniform affects attendance, behavior problems, substance abuse, and academic achievement. We believe that a thorough analysis of the arguments proposed by uniform advocates will add critical insight to the ongoing debate on the effects of school uniform policies. (Brunsma and Rockquemore, 1998, pg. 54)
The authors point out that if uniforms work, they should see some of the following trends in schools with uniforms:
1. Student uniforms decrease substance use (drugs).
2. Student uniforms decrease behavioral problems.
3. Student uniforms increase attendance.
4. Student uniforms increase academic achievement.
They suspected that when other variables affecting these four items were accounted for, it would be shown that uniforms were not the cause for improvement.
How They Did Their Study
They used data from the National Educational Longitudinal Study of 1988 (NELS:88), and three follow-up studies. These studies tracked a national sample of eighth graders (in 1988) from a wide variety of public and private schools and followed their academic careers through college. Some of the data collected in the studies included uniform policies, student background (economic and minority status), peer group (attitudes towards school and drug use), school achievement, and behavioral characteristics (how often did each student get into trouble, fights , suspensions, etc.). The authors concentrated on data from the students 10th grade year.
Some of the independent variables they considered were sex, race, economic status, public or private school, academic or vocational "tracking", rural or urban district, peer proschool attitudes, academic preparedness, the student's own proschool attitudes, and most importantly, whether or not the students wore uniforms. The researchers wanted to determine if there was a tie between these variables and desirable behavior by the students. The areas that they were looking for improvement as a result of the previous variables included reduced absenteeism, fewer behavioral problems, reduced illegal drug use, and improved standardized test scores. The researchers considered this second group of variables to be the dependent variables. The goal of their study was to determine if there was any relationship between the independent variables (particularly uniforms) and the dependent variables.
The authors took all of the data for these variables from the NELS:88 study and performed a regression analysis to see if any of the independent variables were predictors of any of the dependent variables. If there was a strong tie in the data between any two variables ( uniforms and absenteeism, for example), it would show up in the study as a correlation coefficient close to 1 or -1. A correlation coefficient near 0 indicates no relationship between the two variables. So, if wearing uniforms had a large effect on behavior, we would expect to see a correlation coefficient of say 0.5 between uniforms and measures of good behavior. If we see a very low correlation coefficient between these two, then we know that wearing uniforms has no real effect on behavior.
Results
The only positive result for uniforms that the study showed was a very slight relationship between uniforms and standardized achievement scores. The correlation coefficient was 0.05, indicating a very slight possible relationship between the two variables, but showing that uniforms are a very poor predictor of standardized test scores and that the relationship is much weaker than has been indicated in the uniform debate. Notice that 0,05 is much closer to 0 than to 1. Other than this one weak, possible relationship, uniforms struck out. In the authors own words:
Student uniform use was not significantly correlated with any of the school commitment variables such as absenteeism, behavior, or substance use (drugs). In addition, students wearing uniforms did not appear to have any significantly different academic preparedness, proschool attitudes, or peer group structures with proschool attitudes than other students. Moreover, the negative correlations between the attitudinal variables and the various outcomes of interest are significant; hence, the predictive analysis provides more substantive results.
In other words, the authors saw no relationship between wearing uniforms and the desirable behavior (reduced absenteeism, reduced drug usage, improved behavior). They did, however, see a strong relationship between academic preparedness, proschool attitudes, and peers having proschool attitudes and the desirable behaviors. Furthermore, they saw no relationship between wearing uniforms and the variables that do predict good behavior (academic preparedness, proschool attitudes, and peers having proschool attitudes).
Conclusion
Based upon this analysis, the authors were forced to reject the ideas that uniforms improved attendance rates, decreased behavioral problems, decreased drug use, or improved academic achievement. The authors did find that proschool attitudes from students and their peers and good academic preparedness did predict the desired behavior. They saw that wearing uniforms did not lead to improvements in proschool attitudes or increased academic preparation.
plainandsimple, The parents have spoken up. That is really the central issue here. A majority of the adults in this community do not want the dress code. Every parent has a different reason for objecting, but they "we" have stood up to be heard. Instead, we have been ignored and discounted. The powers that be appear to want every parent to feel isolated in their opinions, and incapable of working to reverse the decision.
Ultimately, the dress code will likely have to be challenged to be amended. It will take 1 or 2 brave children and their parents to refuse to comply with the code and subsequently accept any and all discipline which will inevitably lead to home school. There is a chance the ACLU would help with the legal aspect, but there is no guarantee. That means the family would also have the burden of financing their own defense. It would be easier if a substantial percentage refused to comply and helped financially, but that is unlikely. We would see changes soon and without litigation if 1/4-1/3 of the students refused to go to school dressed in the standardized attire but again, that is unlikely to happen. People do not have the ability to devote their life to this battle.
My youngest son is affected by the dress code, and I have talked to him about how he feels. He does not like it at all, but does not want to be singled out for non-compliance. I would not hesitate to support him if did though. About all we have left to do is to complain. So what now?
State Juvenile Probation Officer and yes...they were school children who committed criminal acts.
Biased...sure, but I can assure you that RTTR001 and I know alot more about what really goes on in the schools than you do. Until you work inside the system, you can only judge by what you see on the outside. You base your opinion on how the situation looks to you. RTTR001 base our opinion on what we have actually seen and delt with in our professional life.
No...not a probation officer now. Computer science degree and moved out of the street battle.
A High School student who began a petition....
To: CCISD School Board
My name is Nicole Marino and I am a sophomore at King High School. This petition is on behalf of those who, like myself, oppose uniforms as the dress code for CCISD high schools. Your stated purposes for a dress code were to "teach grooming and hygiene, instill discipline, prevent disruption, avoid safety hazards, and teach respect for authority." We believe, however, that uniforms are no more effective in accomplishing these objectives than our previous dress code and, if anything, counteract them, which is supported by evidence in this petition.
Firstly, the belief that if students are dressed alike they will feel equal is unrealistic. It is essential that students learn to respect diversity among their peers, particularly in a country as dynamic as the United States. Likewise, there will always be students who wear Ralph Lauren polo shirts and students who wear Wal-Mart polo shirts. Nothing is truly equal in this world and to pretend otherwise is wishful thinking.
Secondly, we are unique individuals transitioning from adolescence to adulthood and its subsequent responsibilities. As such, we require a certain amount of freedom in order to break from the conformity of childhood, explore our individuality, and express it so that we may contribute our unique talents to the world. We express our interests, personalities, and tastes as well as identify potential friends through our appearance, while learning to appreciate differences in the aforementioned in those around us. Besides, if we are not granted enough freedom and responsibility at this age to choose something as simple as our own dress, where will that leave us in the world? After all, we will soon be among you in electing our state and national representatives.
As for preventing disruption, this petition is proof in itself that the uniforms are incapable of preventing disruption of any sort, if not create it in the first place. Furthermore, to assume that uniforms will prevent dress code violations in such a large student mass is ridiculous. If anything, an unreasonably strict dress code will most likely result in more violations.
The most important issue, however, is whether or not uniforms prevent safety hazards. Harvard reports have claimed that while dress codes have been proven to reduce violence and crime in schools there has been little scientific study on the effectiveness of uniforms in particular. Notre Dame's Department of Sociology likewise reported in 1998 on their studies of tenth graders wearing uniforms that the uniforms showed no direct effect on substance abuse, behavioral problems, or attendance. Uniforms did, however, prove to have a negative effect on the academic achievements of "pro-school" students.
Overall, there is no miracle cure for violence and crime in schools, and uniforms are not the answer. In order for uniforms to effectively change student behavior, the students themselves must first support the uniforms. Those who want to inflict harm on others will always find a reason to do so. In the meantime, is it fair to punish and restrict everyone for the actions of a few?
The issue at hand is not whether we should have a dress code. Rather, it is whether we should have a dress code as oppressive as uniforms, and we believe not. Please consider this petition with all earnest and fairness.
Sincerely,
The Undersigned
You base your opinion on how the situation looks to you. RTTR001 base our opinion on what we have actually seen and delt with in our professional life.
No...not a probation officer now. Computer science degree and moved out of the street battle.
-- Posted by sameoldstory on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 4:26 PM
So, have you ever had a young adult on probation who dressed nice? Or is something other than their attire that led them to that point?
State Juvenile Probation Officer? I had one or two of those. You claim to know what really is going on? You may, but not a single one of the ones I personally reported to had a clue what was going on, not only on the street, but even inside of their own little office.
If you see it as a "battle", then you must be expecting to confront an enemy to begin with. I do understand your opinions now. As I have seen the system from many perspectives, I feel comfortable telling you that, I am glad that you finally got an education and are no longer in your former position. Perhaps you and rttr001 should consider other ways to wage war with your imagined enemies. The possibilities are endless.
sameoldstory,
Did you read anything I said? I teach, the dropouts I see 2 times a month are from Nashville schools, You know, the ones that have the failing dress code?
So why are you not continuing your probation officer job? Oh, let me guess, they didn't listen to you? LOL know why? Because you don't know how to deal with them. Some people are cut out, some people are not. Did you notice that teens seem to agree with this old man more so than you are rttr001? You know, the one that seems to know more than I about how the kids are, yet can't seem to control them? Why do you two feel the need to control them? That is your problem. You want the dress code because you have superiority complex.
I don't have to justify myself to you or anyone. Nor do I feel the need to tell you of the success I had in my job. The reason was that I did understand the kids. I understand the pressure and the danger of being a teen.
So... you want some kind of pat on the back for teaching MS Office to dropouts? If you tell me that you show up at their hangouts at 2am or met them at the ER after they were raped by their boyfriend or father, then I may consider the job you do.
The only teens that are agreeing with you are the ones that don't like the code. So you have proved my point. By not acting like an adult and supporting the school system, you support the kids that wish to do as they please. You are not a solution. You are the root of the problem. You support and condone oppositional behavior by minors towards authority figures. It takes a real adult to stand up and tell kids "NO".
darrick.... and if you think I let a probationer walk into my office with his pants down past his butt, you got another thing coming.
memyselfi... one or two probation officers?
I didn't sit on my butt if that's what you mean and rarely did I ever have a kid violate their probation. The reason...I told them the truth and did exactly what I said I would do. They respected me because I didn't say one thing and do another. Most of the kids never had that in their life. I see some of them on occasion and they always come up to say hi and let me know how they were doing. It was actually very rewarding.
We do tell kids our kids no.
That is why our children obeyed the dress code.
That is why we find it ludicrous that 98% of the children of Bedford County are being punished for the 2% whose parents did not say no.
That is why we are questioning the school system... because they did not say no to the 2% who continuosly violated the previous dress code.
We said NO to the School Board.
But, I'm certain your rebuttal to this will reflect your
SAME OLD STORY.
sameoldstory,
So how do you teach kids to become adults? Treat them like kids and they will always be kids, Treat them like inmates, they will be inmates. YOU are the problem. You deal with criminals then classify ALL the teens as criminals. How quaint.
So if a probationer comes in with baggy pants, do you send them to jail for non-compliance? or do you tell the judge he never came in then have him arrested for failure to show up? Oppression at it's finest!
superiority complex?
Coming from the "old man" that thinks he knows everything but is too important in the business community to put his ideas on the line by actually coming down from his ivory tower and running for office?
If you want to change it....step up to the plate. I have a feeling that you are the type of person that would rather sit back and be critical of others than take the risk yourself. It's easy to make decisions when you have nothing to loose. Political armchair QB.
Can't serve due to conflict of interest? LOL.... when has THAT ever bothered anyone in the Bedford Co political game. EVERYONE has a conflict.
#1 You don't know what I do and .. Ivory Tower? LOL watch Lord of the Rings much?
#2 Yes, by your own words, you feel you are better than everyone else when you are place in a position over someone. Look at your own words.
#3 I do more as a citizen than most elected officials can do while in office. Like I said, you don't know me nor what I do.
You are a mere bitter little man that couldn't hack a civil job because he couldn't play along with others well.
darrick.... and if you think I let a probationer walk into my office with his pants down past his butt, you got another thing coming.
-- Posted by sameoldstory on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 6:41 PM
Hmm... What about a striped polo and frayed jeans with flip-flops? HAHAHA... Not everyone who opposes a sanctioned dress code sags, is goth, or whatever categorization you put them in.
There's the difference between me and you. I am not critical of the decision makers if I don't have have the guts to actually put my neck on the line.
Hide behind the conflict of interest all you want. You are just all talk. Typical Bedford Co citizen. Has all the answers when you are on a web site or sitting with a group of friends. Get on the Board of Education, City Counsel or County Court Commission. Let other's be openly critical of your views. Let others pick apart your decisions.
No...my position isn't in Bedford Co. I set policy and make decisions in other areas of State Government and my butt is on the line for every one of those decisions.
How's that risk taking world of web development going?
HAHAHAH....."striped polo and frayed jeans with flip-flops"
Darrick. Please don't tell me that you just admitted to being an MTSU frat boy. I was just starting to respect an independant thinker.
And I hate flip flops with jeans. No one wants to look at a guys nasty toes. LOL
sameoldstory,
Look who's talking, Are you running for something? Are you an elected official? Didn't think so. So shut the pie-hole if you don't know what you are talking about and clearly that is the case here.
Yes, I have seen more than one. Why do you ask? Are you feeling particularly judgmental today? I would hope that you do not dismiss my comments after finding out that I have seen the world through the eyes of the person in the other seat. Reading your comments, I am assuming it would be very easy for you to do just that. If so, that is okay, I have dealt with similar situations before, and I can handle it. I'm all growed up now.
I hate to continually be so offensive as it is not really my nature, but I have to point out that your limited interaction with the majority of your caseload puts you in no place to know what these kids had in their lives. They had exactly what you imagined they did, at least as far as you were concerned. To attempt to classify the majority of these children into neat little rows, sorted by what their malfunction apparently is, cannot be justified or evidenced by my experiences. They (and their families) said, and did, exactly what they thought you wanted. It was possibly out of respect (I do not claim to know), but was most assuredly out of fear.
For you to espouse the apparently self-evident truth that children are not getting the rules they need to become productive members of society, in fact tells me a lot about you. Before I keep going with that thought though, please clarify if what you are saying is that "The problem children do not get rules and boundaries and that is a major problem with society." paraphrased, but a general combination of your comments.
Since I have the opportunity, I wanted to ask your opinion regarding the economic discrepancies of the juvenile court system. Do you believe that the children of more affluent families have any better odds avoiding getting caught in the system? I obviously am not asking if you ever had any affluent children, just if it were more common for financially challenged children to be found on probation for lesser offences. I am not asking you for statistics and their meanings, just your opinion from your own experiences.
memyselfi,
I think we have talked before; via email. I remember something similar that you said above. BTW nice read too; doubt you will get a well-rounded response.
First I would like to make it clear that more than 2% of the population of my school was out of compliance with the old dress code. A more accurate number would be 15-20%. And as far as extremely out of compliance probably 5-10%. I can't speak for other schools. And yes consistency was a major problem last year. The old policy stated "no piercings other than the ears". We battled students all year and even had parents who demanded that their child be allowed to wear their piercings because they paid $25 for it. Amendments were made that retainers could be worn. I reminded students daily to pull up their pants and as soon as they left my class back down they go and not all teachers were consistent with this. If we had cracked down on the old dress code this year, I guarantee we would have had almost as many students in ISS the first week of school as we had this year and the same group of parents would be fussing about it.
EvilMonkey,
To say that you can teach a class of 30+ freshman students of whom 75% could care less about the content without some kind of control is absurd. I think there is a big difference in teaching MS Office to drop-outs and teaching 30+ freshman who are full of energy with hormones raging. You must have some kind of control. Let me ask you this.....When you are speaking in front of a group and three different groups of students are holding a conversation. You ask them to be quiet and one says "Dude, why you hassling me?". According to your theory you ignore that and he keeps on talking. Then the students who actually want to listen start to complain. Then a student tells the disruptive student to "shut up". The disruptive student then jumps up and curses at the other. So I guess you would let this work itself out right? Well let me tell you this.....you have to gain control. And yes these types of scenarios happen often. If you don't aggressively handle this situation you lose the credibility and repect of not only the disruptive student but the whole class. And by aggressively I mean put that kid out of class immediately. And I guarantee you a day later often that same student will smile and speak to me in the hallway or out in public. So is that extreme control? Is that a concentration camp method as you make it sound. You make it seem like my students probably hate me but why is it if I see them out in public most all of them go out of their way to speak to me. And I do the same. I build relationships with my students and sometimes this is through "tough love".
memyselfi...Asked "had any affluent children, just if it were more common for financially challenged children to be found on probation for lesser offences"
Sad to say, but you are dead on with your assumption.
I was in the system for 10 years and two things were clear.
1. If the parents had money, they were able to afford GOOD legal counsel. Therefore the kid got better legal advise and better plea agreements.
2. If the kids parents had money, they were able to pay for things like damaged property or medical bills from assults, therefore the victim and prosecution were more willing to accept alternatives to more severe punishment.
That was one part of the system that made me sick. I'm not bleeding heart liberal, but the underprivileged children were more than likely to end up on state probation or in state custody than the "well to do". Same thing happens in the adult system today.
Oh and one more thing about control EvilMonkey. Don't think for a minute that students won't take advantage of a teacher either if classroom management is too loose. From the sweetest little cheerleader to the "goth" queen they are all capable of lying their way into whatever they want. I know from experience. I have been burned many times. Often the quiet unassuming ones who just need to use the restroom are caught smoking outside. Being called to the principals office is just as scary for a teacher as it is for a student. So.....you think you can teach without control of some kind? Enlighten me.
Darrick. Please don't tell me that you just admitted to being an MTSU frat boy. I was just starting to respect an independant thinker.
And I hate flip flops with jeans. No one wants to look at a guys nasty toes. LOL
-- Posted by sameoldstory on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 7:44 PM
Frat boy? Wow... I live in Shelbyville and work 35 hours a week, take 15 hours of classes. I don't have time to be a frat boy... Never have. You have such vague generalizations of people. Apparently somewhere between the James Walker Library and Peck Hall, you forgot to open your mind.
rttr001,
Then why was there a problem with enforcing the old dress code the same way you handle you classes?
BTW, 90% of the "dropouts" were actually kicked out of school. I have 25 normally and No, I don't have a problem with them. They normally are talking amongst each other to solve a problem or to ask each other a question. Much like you do when in an adult environment. I never said that hate you, I say they hate your posture and the way you try to make them percieve you while in the classroom.
What is the difference when you talk to these children outside in public? Did you ever think about that? The difference is, They can walk away from you. The environment you have in your classroom seems to be, that you want total control. Well that is impossible if you keep telling that to someone.
memyselfi.... The only reason I asked about the number of probation officers was that the turnover rates are VERY high. Most probation officers never know a thing about their kids because they aren't around long enough to work through a case. I saw many from beginning to end over a 10 year period.
darrick_04.... hahahah
And the generalizations actually came from a couple of frat guys themselves. I was in a bar in Nashville and said something about everyone looking the same. Yes...stripped polo shirts and flip-flops. But you forgot to add the distressed baseball cap.
The two guys laughed and said "Don't you know a frat convention when you see one? The turned up collars should have been a clue." They were making fun of their own "brothers"
So when you said that "frat boy" came to mind. glad to know that you fall with the free thinkers and not the "buy my friends" club.
EM and sameoldstory, I will reply to you both, but have limited time right now and am compelled to comment to:
rttr001, I have a few ideas about control. What about the possibility that the teachers captivate the minds of their students as opposed to shaking their fists and proving that they are authority figures. I have enough faith in our community's children to believe that every child in mainstreamed classes understand that the teacher is in a position of authority.
I do have to wonder how a teacher could let their classroom environment degenerate into a battle of wills where no one could possibly win. Children are not the unthinking and rebellious people you seem to be portraying them as. I am not saying that they do not display these traits occasionally, we all do at times. When given the choice between enjoying their 50 minutes with you or just getting through it, I am guessing most would choose the former.
What do you offer your students? I am not asking if you teach the curriculum, but do you teach it enthusiastically? How can a teacher expect their students to want to learn their lessons when the teacher appears to dread teaching it?
Then why was there a problem with enforcing the old dress code the same way you handle you classes?
-- Posted by Evil Monkey on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 9:39 PM
Inconsistency by teachers. Like I said before......If we kept the old dress code and actually enforced it, we would have the same critics as we do now. Other than colors, shirts with collars and no more than six in. below the waist, pants excluding cargo pockets, flip-flops and belts....There is really not a lot of difference. The big difference between this year and last is how strictly it is being enforced. A good 30% of males could have recieved ISS last year for sagging pants on a daily basis. About the same for piercings. I would say probably 15-20% of females could have gone for too much cleavage or midrifts showing on a daily basis. Students with excessively worn pants with holes were covered with duct tape. What good did that do......they just wore them again. I saw a lot of weird things including.....dog collars with spikes, a cristmas tree skirt being worn by a student as a cape, a hawiian grass skirt worn by a student, gloves with the fingers cut off, various artwork on students skin drawn with permanent markers, satanic symbols drawn on foreheads, the list could go on and on. So yes these extremes sure did not help the situation. These poor kids are just trying to find their identity......gimme a break. These cases do make school look like a joke to the honest taxpayer who wants their child to recieve a good education. Look guys, I hate to be negative about this and I do not agree with every detail of the SSA and I think many teachers have the same opinion. I truly hope that this can be resolved in some way. I'm not a controlling tyrant either but as a teacher, you have play the "alpha" role in the classroom or you will fail. There will always be the knuckleheads who don't conform to authority and arguing with them is a lost cause in many cases. Sometimes just simply showing a student that you care is enough. As I said before, I believe in "tough love". And sometimes you have to use this tactic to gain respect.
rttr001, I cannot speak for the others that are commenting, but I can assure you that you have never seen any of my children wearing anything you might consider questionable. (I can provide their names if you like, and if you ever knew them, you would not hesitate to agree) If you think for one second that all the people commenting against the dress code are the parents that have children affected, you are very mistaken.
I am also curious to know how much time you have spent learning what all these "satanic" symbols mean. Symbols have many meanings and most have been around a very long time. I have yet to fully investigate the different symbols as I do not personally have an interest. I do know enough to know that without a serious inquiry, you do not have a clue what they mean and to assume anything at all, again points your own prejudices and dispositions.
Also, you repeatedly resort to defending your position by apparently claiming that the attire of the students has some kind of relevance to a good education. You give me a break, and explain your position on this particular aspect of the issue more fully, so that I can understand it.
Oh my rttr001! Sounds like you have seen alot. Sounds like the students were pushing the envelope because they could. This is at Central? I still don't understand why students were not disciplined for "sagging" and "bare midriffs" last year. These really are not gray areas. How is the current dress code preventing this from happening? Wasn't acceptable last year yet they did it....will it be the dress code that stops them this year?
Plus you mentioned:
I saw a lot of weird things including.....dog collars with spikes, a cristmas tree skirt being worn by a student as a cape, a hawiian grass skirt worn by a student, gloves with the fingers cut off, various artwork on students skin drawn with permanent markers, satanic symbols drawn on foreheads,Posted by rttr001 on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 11:20 PM
Are these things still being allowed? Is there a code of conduct that prohibits body art? Tattoos are allowed. Correct?
rttr001, I have a few ideas about control. What about the possibility that the teachers captivate the minds of their students as opposed to shaking their fists and proving that they are authority figures. I have enough faith in our community's children to believe that every child in mainstreamed classes understand that the teacher is in a position of authority.
I do have to wonder how a teacher could let their classroom environment degenerate into a battle of wills where no one could possibly win. Children are not the unthinking and rebellious people you seem to be portraying them as. I am not saying that they do not display these traits occasionally, we all do at times. When given the choice between enjoying their 50 minutes with you or just getting through it, I am guessing most would choose the former.
What do you offer your students? I am not asking if you teach the curriculum, but do you teach it enthusiastically? How can a teacher expect their students to want to learn their lessons when the teacher appears to dread teaching it?
-- Posted by memyselfi on Sat, Aug 30, 2008, at 11:01 PM
Great post! I commend you for a good unsarcastic comment. Have you ever considered teaching? Seriously. I think many have misinterpreted my posts as me trying to control with an iron fist. My students are allowed to express themselves whenever they want as long as it is in the confines of my rules. As far as teaching methods, a truly good teacher must learn to think like their students. This can be frustrating at times because it is hard to relate to every student. Putting sometimes difficult content in to laymans terms that a 15 or 16 yr old can truly understand is one of the biggest challenges of teaching. There will always be battles of the wills and many of these students are very intelligent, but they may come from an environment where an adult has beaten them or berated them to the point that they do not trust any adult. Especially those in authoratative positions. Even though this student is very capable of excelling in the classroom many do not conform to rules and do not work in class which often results in misconduct and failing grades. Its amazing how many of these students fail miserably in class but pass the state tests with flying colors. There are so many categories of students we have to accomodate to. So many personalities. I don't think a dress code is going to change that but I don't think that is the intention of the school board. I do not believe their intentions are malicious in any way as some may think. I don't know the answer, but I think the SSA has been a topic for a while and like I said before hopefully once the inconsistencies are ironed out maybe a common ground will be reached and everyone will be happy.
im just sayin,
Yes, tattoos are allowed if appropriate. Drawings with permanent markers on skin could be a safety hazard because of the chemicals in the ink. Most of these extremes were addressed last year fairly quickly. But there were still inconsistencies. Some teachers have the same attitude as anyone in the general work force "If they don't do it, why should I?". So yes I'll admit that teachers and administration did drop the ball a little on the old dress code. Everyone here can cast stones, but put yourselves in our shoes and you might realize just how difficult it can be to be consistent. Honestly, teachers are suffering too, but it is our job to fix this and thats what I plan to do. In my opinion that just backs up the case for a dress code.
How was it when your parents went to school? Were they disrespectful, talking back, or dressing the way they want. I don't think so, why was they raised different then? How were you when you went to school? Did you talkback, be disrespectful and dress the way you want? If not why? What stopped you from doing so? I knew if I did, I would get my rear end spanked, fussed at, and grounded. Not wanting my mom mad at me, and fear of the punishment STOPPED me from doing most mischevious things.
Some of these new generation of kids are not concerned with or do not feel this way, If I was doing something I should not do, all my mom had to do was look at me, and immediately I would stop. Or any adult for that matter, because I know they can tell my mom and that would be even worse for someone to tell her I was misbehaving. Punishment and Discipline was normal and expected back then for parents to handle their child, and "MAKE" them mind. Now days if a parent tries to discipline "SOME" children the parent may be the one to end up with the spanken, or the child would just cuss the parent out and continue to do what they where doing. The child may run-away, or call the law and say their parents are hurting them.
So what has happened, that some parents can not discipline their children? Maybe the "LOSS OF PARENTAL CONTROL!" Have you ever seen a child, that ask the mother for a candy and the mother said no, then the child goes and ask the dad for the candy and the dad saids yes. Alot of times when this continues the child begins loosing respect for the parent that tries to discipline when the other parent "Stops" the others method of discipline. They begin to believe that they do not have to do as that parent wants them to do.
Parents have become more cautious and more limited with their disciplinary methods since some law makers began punishing parents for spankings. A child can threaten a parent that they will call the law on them and say they hurt them when they were spanked, and can refuse to go to their room, or time-out, or continue to talk back, etc. This was the beginings of parental control being taking away from the parent and given to the child or government (law-makers). Children have rights, and parents do or should to; they should be able to use methods of discipline and raising their child as they were raised, and their parents were raised, but this is not the case.
When a child is taken into juvenile, are they locked up in a room of their own only to be released when gaurds let them? If a parent did this they would probably go to jail for some kind of abuse charge. If they refuse to apply to a police officers command, the officer is going to use force, maybe wrestle him down to handcuff him, or shoot him with a tazer (now dayz), and if a parent did this they would be arrested for abuse. I'm not saying that those methods is what parents would do, I'm saying that parents are loosing their control to raise and discipline their children. Now we have a school system that is taken away a parents desicion of the clothes they buy their children. More and more parents will not be raising their kids, schools, juveniles, court systems, and Govt. will be the ones raising these children at the parents expense. Probably having the parent working 2 jobs to survive, and hardly ever seing their child. And these children are going to have more problems with their emotional and social well beings. Probably more Anger problems. Just a thought.
Just please keep in mind none of these things you mention is anything new..and teenagers have always worn fads and kept up with the style!
Remember when: Fads were Hot pants, tube tops, mini skirts, bellbottoms, platform shoes, hip boots, spike heels, halter tops, Afro's, Boys hair hanging down their backs, beehives, Disco, heavy metal, Love beads, Flower power, Make Love not War, Hippies, skin heads. But yet we all lived through these fads in fact we went on in life to become Lawyers, Doctors, Teachers and Politicians of today. Imagine That! We actually learned what was being taught in school without being told what to wear or how to think.
I just don't believe kids have changed all that much.
"If we kept the old dress code and actually enforced it, we would have the same critics as we do now."
But, you didn't try so how can you say that? How do you really know, you ask for respect but didn't even respect the parents to "support" you. My kid has never dressed in any of the ways you have stated above.
Dianatn.... No the kids haven't changed all that much. The parents, on the other hand, did (me included)
We stopped being the authority figures we should have been and gave into the idea that "we have to be a friend to our children first" That's a great idea as long as lines are drawn and the child knows where friendship stops and parental control starts. It's not easy. With a teenage daughter, it's next too impossible.
I tried to do things as a kid. I tried to dress in the latest fads. The late 70's was alot of fun. But the reason I couldn't was that my parents refused to give into my begging and refused to fall for the "every other kid gets to", so they bought me the clothes they wanted me to dress in and made me cut my hair and look decent. Did I like it? NO!!! Was ticked off most of the time.
I revert back to my main argument. If ALL parents would have their children under control, then things like a dress code in school would never have come up, because there would have been no problems. As it is, 90% of the parents are being punished because 10% of the parents didn't have the guts to stand up, make the hard decision and actually be a PARENT. Fair? Of course not, but there is not one person here that can tell me they have never been in this type of situation before.
I've ran many laps in football and basketball because some other team member shot their mouth off. I have sat in classrooms as a kid and missed play period because a few kids were acting up. So now, our kids are being punished because others wouldn't control their own kids.
The old dress code was too vague to be enforceable. It contained vague terms such as "neat and clean appearance". Most of us know what that means in relation to society as a whole, but many do not, therefore they sent their kids to school dressed like their favorite rap stars or death metal band. But because the code was too vague, it wasn't enforceable. It's like putting up a sign that says "No speeding" but you don't post a speed limit. I like to drive fast, so I would not consider myself to be speeding where another would know that 30phm on a city street is acceptable. Either way, until a posted limit is set, you can't stop the faster cars.
Until the school system posted a rigid set of dress code rules, then it was anything goes.
I can't explain it any clearer than that.
The dress code is ridiculous!!! ABSOLUTELY absurd. What is our genius school board doing about those failing schools?
They focused on a total non issue, and disregarded the mounting evidence that quality teaching wasn't be done. Perhaps the administration and school board should be given a dress code for not doing THEIR JOBS!
Spin it however you wish sameolestory but the fact remains even back in the 70's there were groups of children that had long hair or shaved their head and dressed funny. Not every child did, same as it is now, not every child dresses goth or like rock stars.
We all lived through it and we went on to lead productive lives.
"The old dress code was too vague to be enforceable. It contained vague terms such as "neat and clean appearance"."
But so is the new dress code, it is just as vague. How do you call having Community 6th graders not having to abide by those rules? Real rigid eh? The old policy said, Neat and clean appearance would be determined by the authority of the school. I guess they were unable to make a decision? Some leadership skills there eh.
Maybe you should call the Community school and ask them that question. I'm sure if Cascade designated k-6th as Elementary, then those 6th graders at Cascade would not have to dress to the code.
If you are so politically connected, I'm sure you can find out every reason behind every question you have.
And for those who fuss about quality teaching, do you have the money to pay for it? You yell when they ask for more money and then yell about quality.
Try to figure out why Bedford County school system ranked 121st out of all the school systems in Tennessee in average pay. Try to get good teachers for that. Our REALLY good teachers get recruited by other school systems. Tullahoma City Schools came in 20th. Rutherford Co is 32nd. Bedford County looses teachers every year to these surrounding areas.
If you want quality, then start paying for quality.
My stats came from here
http://www.teateachers.org/cms/Average+I...
sameoldstory,
So where is the money going? Do you know?
What money? We have no wheel tax in this county. Property tax isn't where it needs to be, but can't go up in this market. We have no industry that brings in higher paying jobs, therefore the sales tax will not be coming in either.
We are getting out of this County exactly what we are willing to pay for. Every suggested improvement (schools, judicial system, law enforcement, parks and recreation) are all met with "just spend your money more wisely" attitude or "I don't use the parks so I don't like that idea" followed by "My kids are out of school, so I don't think the schools need any more money"
We finally got out of the hospital business and saved the county a lot of money. We could save even more if we sold the nursing home as well, but too many people are already screaming against it. Folks are already fussing about the way the new hospital is run and saying it was wrong to let outsiders take over.
Everyone wants improvements, but no one is willing to pay for them.
I think I am going to remove myself from this dialogue. I am a painfully slow typist and am neglecting other things that I really need to be doing. I do not believe this forum will make any difference in the long run anyway. I do appreciate the different opinions being offered, but at this point have heard most of them, and the stated reasons behind them. I will however, be thinking to the future and will not "eventually accept the dress code". I fully intend to do whatever I can do to see to it that this particular decision is reversed. If that takes a year, two or even four, then so be it. Not because I believe the dress code is the end of the world, kids are resilient and if that is their only problem, they have it pretty good. My rejection of the dress code is only based on the fact that it represents another bad decision in a long list that apparently will never stop. I, for one, do not look forward to the time inevitably coming when we see that the dress code has not solved all of our problems, and we look to the next set of rules dictated from the few and mandated to the many that will fix our problems. Where will that end? Where should it end?
rttr001, I do understand most of what you are saying. I also understand the difficulties you experience every day. I have talked with several teachers (some of whom I respect greatly) and about half of the teachers I have spoken with at a personal level do support the dress code. Most of that 50% that feel comfortable around me however, do eventually reluctantly admit that their support has more to do with their worldview than anything regarding education. I do not have much doubt that given a face to face and a little trust, you would eventually admit the same, maybe even to yourself.
I do not know how to read your comment about teaching. It could go a couple of different ways; I guess I'll answer to both. You could be saying, or implying, that since I have such an idealized conception of how it should be, then I should get a dose of the reality you face every day. My answer for that would be that I have experienced the reality of the classroom, from the other seat. I have had the opportunity to be exposed to many classrooms. I have had classrooms that were pale, dirty gray and depressing everywhere you looked, where I was chained to my desk (not figuratively, actually shackled to my desk) and was encouraged to be more "acceptable" and to be accommodating to the lesson plan by being injected with Thorazine every 3 1/2 hours. The lesson plan was conformity and the breaking of wills. I have also had classes outside under a shady oak tree with the smell of honeysuckle on the breeze where the entire class found themselves enthralled with the things on this earth and how we perceived our place in it. The best by far though was a tiny clean white and unadorned classroom with 7 students and 1 aging teacher. I always thought he was passionate about Modern History. He may have been, but now, I imagine that since he taught (actually loosely lectured for the entire class) without a book and had been teaching the class since time began as far as I knew; he was really more passionate about teaching than he was the subject at hand. So yes, from my experiences, I do know a little about how it should be. I also know how it should not be. If you did not mean it in that way, sorry I got sidetracked. My answer to the other way it could have been written would be that I have never entertained the idea. It is so far removed from my reality, it would never have crossed my mind as my own education is in such arrears that it would take me at least a decade to get a Bachelors. That is assuming I had no other commitments, which I do.
EM, Thanks. I doubt it. I have had very few people that I have communicated with through e-mail that I didn't know, and they were for the most part theology students at seminary. We do live in a small town though, and appear to be in the same generation. I would imagine our paths have crossed on many occasions.
sameoldstory, It would just take too long to try and explain my opinions to you, and it would likely be of no consequence. It would be a lot easier for me to have an actual verbal dialogue, as opposed to this method of communicating. I do respect your opinions, and your commitment to defending them, even against the odds. I do question where you think the citizens of this community are going to get all the money that our community needs. I assure you that it will have to come from the ones that have money in the first place. There are a few in this community that grow their wealth at the expense of the rest. I also do not know if the schools budget is so tight that a little competition could not improve them all the way around. I know for a fact that the tuition for many very good schools is in the same ballpark as our supposedly grossly under funded and questionable school system.
So where is $13,000+ per child going?! Oh gee, building new schools and NOT including heat...well, guess there goes $100,000...add in a pump house on another to provide water pressure for sprinklers...again, why not included in the bids...who's holding the school board accountible?! And you wonder about teacher pay? Talk to the School Board!
Sam Old Story,
Truly.
The more you post, the more it is evident you have a major chip on your shoulder.
So, here you go.
I will cater to the wound.
You are right.
ALL of the parents of Bedford County are worthless. They cannot say no to their children. Oh but wait, we also abuse our children too. We dress our children like streetwalkers, and thugs, and gang members. Which is why our School system is failing our children. It is all our fault. Not the School System. Heavens no!
We whine and fuss and complain about everything relating to improving our community. We are holding it back.
All of us, except those who cast broad judgement. They are the ones who have all the answers... you know who you are.... they are above us sniveling, dithering idiots, who should know better than challenge authority!
There.
Now take your lollipop, and feel better soon.
memyselfi,
email me at sales@shelbyvillehosting.com. Are you taking theology?
sameoldstory,
BTW I like how you state I attack you, yet you always seem to be making false accusations towards me. For example, political connected? No, I am politically smart,. Each official has a budget, the Board of Education's budget is out of control. So they keep asking for more and more. They negotiate contracts and lose the county's money reserves. I bet if it were their company, that would be a different story. Look at what they "supposedly" spend on students does not actually get to go to the students.
So, what plans would you have for the county? What would you like to see done?
Try to figure out why Bedford County school system ranked 121st out of all the school systems in Tennessee in average pay. Try to get good teachers for that. Our REALLY good teachers get recruited by other school systems. Tullahoma City Schools came in 20th. Rutherford Co is 32nd. Bedford County looses teachers every year to these surrounding areas. -- Posted by sameoldstory on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 1:05 PM
My mom is a school teacher at Harris, she loves what she does, but this year will be her last year teaching too. She is retiring. My husband and I are thinking about moving to Murfreesboro as well. He struggled several months to find a descent paying job here in Shelbyville after having to leave the one he had for over 15 years, he now travels back and forth to Murfreesboro for a job that pays more than the one he left. Population is growing here, schools are growing here but the Funds are not. I'm afraid of how the schools are in Murfreesboro, I will have 3 children that will have to attend school, cost of living I believe is higher their (not really sure yet) and finding a nice neighborhood are my concerns. Me having family here in Shelbyville, and wanting to be close to them and changing my kids to schools in a bigger city is really the ONLY thing keeping us hear.
Everyone wants improvements, but no one is willing to pay for them. -- Posted by sameoldstory on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 2:05 PM
Again, that would have to do with lack of higher paying jobs. Alot of people are struggling to hold on to their homes, and make ends meet. Some people or families may be able to afford to do this, but alot of people are not.
Momof3&3step&1gran,
Unfortunately, many have been forced to make the same choice you are contemplating.
Some of my family have recently relocated to Murfreesboro, and her youngest just started Riverdale HS. She absolutely loves it. It offers a great deal for the students especially those academically gifted.
Just thought I would share that with you... I don't know of other schools.
What plans do I have for this county? Besides moving in three years....
1. Metro the City and County so we can do away with duplicate services.
2. Combine schools.... we made a mistake when we built Community, Cascade and SCHS. Community would stay based on their location, but SCHS and Cascade would be combined to reduce duplication of services.
3. Invest in grant writers who actually know federal and state law. Many federal and state funds go untapped because those writing the grant request do not know the ends and outs of the agencies they are trying to get funds from. A good writer and staff would cost on the front end, but the return of investment will more than make up for it.
Your turn Monkey? What would you like to see put in place? And if the Board of Education's budget was really out of control, don't you think the County Court Commission would be doing something. I have personal knowledge how the Commission works and how they come up with the county budget. No school board is going to force the commission to givem them more money, so I am sure if the commissioners thought their budget was being misused, they would be yelling about it by now.
Those are damn good ideas, but the population doesn't count for that type of consolidation yet. Jobs are needed, we have a lack of utility intra-structure, for example, the water lines are too small in diameter for larger schools, fire depts, industries etc... (how many fire hydrants are out there?).
How do we pay for all the work, teachers, schools, updated utility services and enticement/incentives for high quality companies to locate here. Wind Turbines, they are cheap to build, maintain and it uses existing powerlines. The energy each one produces could trickle down cost savings to the entire county, including residents, government and the industries that are here and willing to locate here.
With 15 of these built, we could afford our own public educations without the dictates or funding from the Federal Government. With 20 or more, we could sell remaining energies to neighboring counties for improved expansions.
2. Combine schools.... we made a mistake when we built Community, Cascade and SCHS. Community would stay based on their location, but SCHS and Cascade would be combined to reduce duplication of services.
-- Posted by sameoldstory on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 5:04 PM
Well, that makes sense...combine 2 schools already busting at the seems and make many rural families travel 45+ minutes to get into Shelbyville, spending more money on gas. Oh yeah, and don't forget those 2 hours days where they'd spend more time on a bus than in an actual classroom, because we know it's just a numbers game with the State to count it as a day. And then how many kids in ISS?!
EMonkey.... I like the wind turbine idea. You are one of the few that are thinking beyond the next election. Ideas like that take time, planning and future investment, but they are the right investment for counties like ours in the long run.
Neighborhood mom.....
At the same time we built three high schools, Lincoln County built one large Lincoln County High School. Instead of paying for three different administrations to run the school, they only had to pay for one.
The combination idea was missed in the 70's and it would not work in Bedford County Today. I do think that after this round of buildings, they need to look into a rezoning of schools. I can't remember the last time that took place here. I am going to hold out judgement on the overcrowding problem at the elementary level until they start moving kids into the Leaning Way school that's being completed.
Oh...Evil Monkey.... Another cost saving measure. Use the old hospital to house all county offices. We could move out of the bank and everywhere else that we rent. Either that, or use the newer wing of the Old Harris Middle School. We are sitting on a lot of property that needs to be used or sold. Seems the County Court Commission has been dragging their feet on moving or using these properties. One has to wonder...what (or who) they are waiting for.
neighborhood mom... I never said the combined school should be located in Shelbyville. Other Counties seem to be moving their schools further out to better serve the rural areas. This would not but a "shut one down and move all into another"
Build bigger...MUCH bigger....
Ok.... so I dream big sometime.
sameoldstory,
The old hospital is going to be utilized by most of the county offices with the exception of the court services. Plus a new MTSU satellite .. so it will be quite a nice addition to the county. But it won't make it successful unless a dress code is enforced. haha.
HAHAH... I had heard rumors those were the plans, but I also felt there was some wavering going on. I do hope they get the MTSU satellite.
Went to church today... No dress code! I learned something too... Hmm, how does that happen? I knew if I wore my Sunday dress and new heels I would receive the message much more clear, but apparently God didn't care, I still got it.
If only our school board was as competent.
Just thought I would share that with you... I don't know of other schools.
-- Posted by summerhill on Sun, Aug 31, 2008, at 4:39 PM
Summerhill Thanks for that info, I appreciate it.
Went to church today... No dress code! I learned something too... Hmm, how does that happen? I knew if I wore my Sunday dress and new heels I would receive the message much more clear, but apparently God didn't care, I still got it.
If only our school board was as competent.
-- Posted by Vindicated on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 9:11 PM
Did anyone show up at your church wearing a studded dog collar?
Did anyone show up at your church wearing a studded dog collar?
-- Posted by sameoldstory on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 11:04 AM
Would it have mattered if they had?
When you talk of combining schools...I say bad idea. Smaller schools (High Schools of 400-700) usually outperform larger schools. Google it or go to an online library at MTSU or TTU to research the thesis papers.
Too many students get lost in large schools and the sense of community is lost. You would still need the same number of administrators because the number of students wouldn't be changing. You might loose one or two, or more likely they would just change job titles. Being a principal is not an easy job, if it's done right. I am in classes on administration now, and I don't see how they can get everything done they should and still make time to help teachers and students. It's almost as if there should be one ADM for all the business/athletics end and another for purely academics. That still leaves an assistant for discipline issues, parental contacts, facility maintenance, and the 1,000 fires that need to be put out.
-- Posted by Vindicated on Mon, Sep 1, 2008, at 9:11 PM
Did anyone show up at your church wearing a studded dog collar?
-- Posted by sameoldstory on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, at 11:04 AM
So.... your point? I am certain they would get more out of the sermon than you, since the only thing you'd be doing is whispering about their attire (being judgmental) than focusing on the point of being at church.... Just like the point of being at school is to learn, not to be treated like inmates.
But you didn't answer the question?
Actually, there are churches where people wear things such as studded dog collars. They aren't and shouldn't be required to wear standard attire. If you CHOOSE to go to a church where standard attire is required, that is your CHOICE. Same for if you CHOOSE to work somewhere that requires standard attire. You get the right to CHOOSE.
Did Jesus where a collared shirt, or suit & tie?
Hmmm.
But you didn't answer the question?
-- Posted by sameoldstory on Wed, Sep 3, 2008, at 4:16 AM
Sure I did... Just not the answer you wanted to hear ;) Nobody makes them go to church, it isn't require by law!!!
By the way, dog collars weren't allowed under the PREVIOUS dress code... figured you know as much.
And public school isn't requied by law. There's home schooling and private school to choose from. So what's your point?
sameoldstory,
The point is, we are taxpayers and there was a very large majority of people that did not want the dress code. We pay for taxes for the education they are required by law to provide. The elected officials are supposed to represent us. So you are saying, not only should we pay taxes for public schools but to pay for private school as well?
Nope. Just saying there are choices. Everyone keeps saying they "have" to go to public school. No they don't. We have many that home school in Bedford County. Some go to Webb.
We pay taxes for alot of things we never use. I don't plan on going to jail, but my taxes go to support it. I have yet to have my home burn, but I pay for the fire department. Would rather die than end up in Bedford Co Nursing Home, but I'm paying for that as well.
Honestly, I have yet to here the majority that are against the dress code. Most of the parents I have talked to could care less. I know alot are against it and alot are like me: Just really don't care one way or the other.
They will care when it comes time for their child to pass into another grade or to graduate or to attend college.
I want a property tax refund, not only do I not have no use for the jail or nursing home, I do not and most likely will not have children attend our local public schools. I have had to request use of the services of the sherifs dept. and the EMS and the fire dept., so can I pro-rate my property taxes and just pay for that?
Even though we may CHOOSE to send our kids to public school, we also CHOOSE the policies we want to see implemented by voting for board members. They are obligated in turn to make decisions which reflect our wishes. Even private school parents are involved in the CHOICES in policy for the private school they elect to attend. Most of them also have some kind of governing board and although home schooled do not have to abide by a dress code except as implemented by the parent, they still have to follow certain rules.
No matter where or how you CHOOSE your schooling, you still have the right to vote.
Our school board members ignored the outcry when this code was first suggested and did what they wanted. They have been in office so long and up to that point had pretty much ran under the radar so it will take time to get them out.
Even though the topic is not taxes, my philosophy is that as citizens we must all be good neighbors and help each other.
You actually never know when you or a family member or a friend will need public services.
As tax payers, we are all already paying for all schooling choices because they must all be regulated in some manner and when students do graduate, we continue to pay for higher education services.
Dixie Parker won her re-election. The majority has spoken.
The majority of voters in her district may have spoken although I suspect she rolled out many friends and relatives on her behalf. Unfortunately, not all voters are parents and not all parents are voters and not all parents are voters in her district.
I never saw any ballots sent home before the dress code was passed asking parents to vote yes/no. If that had been done initially, there would not have been so much objection.
Teachers were also not given the option to weigh in and were even told in some schools NOT to express their opinions and many of us who are parents continue to disagree with it.
It is a violation of students' rights, but again, who has the money and/or resources to fight it? Only people like school board members and they are the ones forcing it on the rest of us.
Now what we are having to deal with is the inconsistency and irrationality of the inspections(still).
gordo,
You're an idiot, she cheated on her election.