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 Barack Obama supporters celebrate as early results come in Tuesday night at The Fly Arts Center in Shelbyville. (T-G Photo by John Philleo) [Click to enlarge] [Order this photo] |
Donna Phillips, a supporter of President-elect Obama, attended an Obama Victory Party at The Fly, and she says the moment he was declared winner was mesmerizing.
"The band kicked up the music, people cheered and danced. I was very moved by it," said a tearful Phillips this morning. "My brother, who's 39, was sitting next to me in silence with his hand over his mouth with tears in his eyes. He looked at me and said, 'Never in my lifetime.' "
Diane Floyd, another local supporter of Obama, organized the local victory party, which had a huge turnout, and she agreed the night was momentous.
"I'm so pleased so many Bedford County people came out to celebrate," Floyd said. "I felt it was important for everyone to have an outlet to celebrate ... Barack Obama has energized this country, and the citizens of Bedford County ... He has inspired everyone to pitch in and work for our country and not just sit back and complain."
Even local folks, like local Republican party chairman David Evans, agreed that Obama had inspired citizens from coast to coast.
"It was an exciting night," Evans said. "Of course, from a conservative standpoint I was disappointed, but overall, this was the most exciting election in decades ... This was a long, hard-fought battle."
Evans said he was proud of the conservative stand Tennesseans and other Southern states took in this election, with most of the southern states remaining red after last night's election.
In Bedford County, Republican Sen. John McCain received 65.78 percent of the vote, with Obama earning 32.36 percent. In the U.S. Senate race, Republican incumbent Lamar Alexander held onto his seat, earning 70 percent of the vote against Democrat Robert Tuke.
Total voter turnout was up compared to the last two presidential elections, although not by as huge a margin as the record-shattering early voting turnout had suggested. The total voter turnout -- early plus election day -- was 15,759, as compared to 13,622 in the 2004 presidential election and 13,144 in 2000.
"I told people, even if we don't take the state, we have a stake in this election," said Phillips, who said local Obama campaigners were making calls up until polls closed in key battleground states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, which helped carry Obama to a decisive victory last night.
Local democratic party chair Connie Crafton, was also ecstatic with local efforts, despite McCain winning Tennessee. Crafton said the local Obama group had registered more than 1,500 new Bedford County voters.
"History was made last night," Crafton said. "Even though Obama did not carry Bedford County and the state of Tennessee, Democrats came out in force to vote for this election ... I think that the number of people who voted shows that Americans are ready for a change ... I am thrilled about the Obama/Biden team. I think they can turn this country around."
Around the country
Jubilation stretched into the early morning today in Washington, D.C., and a large crowd paraded on Pennsylvania Avenue with drums, balloons and a life-size cutout of Obama.
By 4 a.m., a few young revelers lingered among the reviewing stands being built for January's presidential inauguration.
"I heard that he won and I instinctively came here," said Hollis Gentry, 45, who lives about six blocks away. "I came down here to make a prayer... that we'll be able to change the nation and the world."
In Philadelphia, thousands of blacks and whites converged at City Hall shortly after Obama was declared the winner. Under a light rain, they danced to the music blaring from car radios. Drivers stopped in the middle of the street, opened their car doors and broadcast Obama's acceptance speech.
"Barack is in the house!" shouted Pamela Williams, 46. "This is very important to me. Change is about to happen."
The celebrations were both large big and small, but the sentiment was the same -- pure joy over how far the country has come. People honked horns, high-fived each other and embraced.
"I was born in the civil rights time. To see this happening is unbelievable. We've got the first black president. A black president!" said Mike Louis, a 53-year-old black man who got teary-eyed as he watched the election results on a giant video board in Cincinnati's Fountain Square. "It's not cured now, but this is a step to curing this country of racism. This is a big, giant step toward getting this country together."
The roar of thousands of people gathered in a plaza near the legendary Apollo Theater in New York City's Harlem neighborhood could be heard blocks away.
In Cleveland, supporters gathered at a house party and held champagne flutes above their heads for a toast. "To the first African-American president in the history of the United States!" they shouted.
In Chicago, Obama's hometown, an estimated 125,000 people gathered on an unusually warm November night to greet the senator at a delirious victory rally at Grant Park.
"It's fantastic," said Hulon Johnson, 71, a retired Chicago public school principal. "I've always told my kids this was possible; now they'll have to believe me."
LaKeisha Williams, a 27-year-old laid-off school nurse, who watched Obama's victory on a TV in a downtown Kansas City concert hall, said: "People actually have finally come together and realized that no matter what his race is, he was the right person for the job. I think it was destiny for him to win. But now we still have to come together to make sure things work."
In Miami's predominantly black Liberty City neighborhood, Otoria Pitts, 30, suggested the significance of Obama's victory goes beyond race.
"His election speaks volumes for a bunch of people," she said. "Children of single mothers, people who put themselves through college. It says, you can do it, you can do it."
Joined by her sister, Susan, and niece, Akira, the three women bought a few rockets from a fireworks stand and lit up the night sky with color.
On the other side of the country, others were thinking how Obama's election could change their lives.
"I'm ecstatic," said Jason Samm, a 33-year-old business owner who was celebrating in South Los Angeles. "I have three kids, which means a lot of doors opening up for them."
Obama's victory also brought back memories of hard-fought battles of generations past.
At Atlanta's Ebenezer Baptist Church, where the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. preached, Rep. John Lewis, a civil rights hero, said he was hardly able to believe that 40 years after he was left beaten and bloody on an Alabama bridge as he marched for the right for blacks to vote, he had cast a ballot for Obama.
"This is a great night," he said. "It is an unbelievable night. It is a night of thanksgiving."
As the news of a projected Obama victory flashed across a TV screen, men in the nearly all-black crowd pumped their fists and bowed their heads. Women wept and embraced their children. Screams of "Thank you, Lord!" were heard throughout the sanctuary.
Surveying the scene, Mattie Bridgewater whispered from her seat, "I just can't believe it. Not in my lifetime."
Bridgewater said she went to the same elementary school as Emmett Till, the boy from Chicago whose murder in Mississippi was one of the catalysts of the civil rights movement. Both she and her 92-year-old mother voted for Obama.
"I'm sitting here in awe," she said. "This is a moment in history that I just thank my God I was allowed to live long enough to see. Now, when I tell my students they can be anything they want to be, that includes president of the United States."
-- Associated Press reports contributed to this story.
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God help our country and all the guilible people that fell under the spell of a Hollywood/American want to be. That fact (that people could be taken in so easily) scares me almost as much as Barrack Hussien Obama. "Working" class people be prepared to pay out the rest of your paycheck to support those who will not work or provide for their families (including Healthcare).You who thought you could retire keep going until you drop on the job. Oh yes, has everyone forgotten those innocents who died 911?
Amen! Thank The Lord Obama Won! Maybe now the middle Class middle will feel relief soon!
I couldn't agree more. I fear for what our country is about to face. We are living in scary times. Praise God that He still sits on the throne!
Gee , I guess I can quit my job now and quit paying my mortgage because the feds are going to take care of me, Man what a country ..................................................NOT.
Change is not always "good" change. Something different doesn't necessarily mean something better. Promises are easily made, but more difficult to keep.
Also, it's worth noting that the same folks that didn't want to be seen as black or white, but equals, are now the same that praise Obama simply because he's black. I gave up being a racist a long time ago. Let's celebrate Obama for bringing people together, but please leave the "We finally got us a BLACK president" sentiment alone. We didnt cheer for Clinton based on race, did we ?
'maybe the middle class will feel relief soon'
Such a statement reflects the attitude of many that the government should provide such ease. If life is so tough, maybe you should consider working harder to improve your own condition. Yes food and gas are a little higher and credit is tighter, but it is your responsibility to adapt.If your job doesn't pay enough find another or reduce your expenses.
I agree Gottago. Life is hard for the middle class because of the poor financial choices many have made (myself included). It is NOT the government's job to save those who have done nothing to help themselves. Our nation has become a "welfare state" thanks to the likes of Bill Clinton, and Obama has already publicly announced that he plans to make the situation worse. I pray that in 2 years when many seats in Congress come up for re-election that many see the error of the their ways and replace the corrupt Democratic machine that is in power. The corruption has now only been made worse by electing a man that is so far to the left that he is about to come full circle!
Give Barack Obama a chance, he might just surprise you.
It will be interesting to see how Sen. (Pres. Elect) Obama plans on funding No Child Left Behind (NCLB) and implementing universal health care while giving 95% of Americans a tax break. NCLB funding alone is estimated in the 10 billion dollar a year range, universal health care will run at least a trillion dollars (American Medical Association estimate) a year.
Somebody show me the math on just these issues.
I suggest everyone do this while doing your taxes, write down you adjusted gross income, what your federal tax liability was, and most importantly what your medicare and social security taxes were. Then next year you can see what really happened.
All Sen. Obama promised was no Federal Income Tax increase. He would never respond to questions about Medicare Tax and Social Security Tax.....
First off Obama can't give 95% of the people a tax break. it is impossible, because 40% of the population don't pay any federal income taxes
oops , I'm wrong it is 30%
When I saw that Obama was going to be the next President of the United States and saw how many people who were there supporting him, all I could think about was his morals and his stand on abortion. How many more babies are going to die because of Obama's beliefs? A vote for Obama was a vote for abortion.
My point exactly pokesalad. His platform represents nothing more than "voodoo" math. Completely unsupportable within the confines of reality.
The GOP may "borrow and spend" but the Democratic Party is definitely a "tax and spend" operating system.
Obama sounds more like a sophomore at some east-coast liberal arts college than a leader. He maintains all the vigor of youth without any experience or real world thinking.
ZT,
While I am no Obama supporter, I must point out that he has never given any reason for his morality to be held suspect. Pro-choice may or may not be 'pro-abortion' and you and all your anti-choice cronies no it. Your morality is not my morality and your morality is not necessary God's morality,either. Religious views do not belong in the political arena and Obama has wisely chosen to not play that game.
gottago,
what are the choices of "pro choice" if not in support of abortion?
WHAT I HEAR AND READ IS ALOT OF FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN. IF WE TRUST GOD COMPLETELY THEN WE KNOW ALL WILL BE WELL.CHANGE IS SCARY BUT ATTACKING THE MAN WILL NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT HE HAS BEEN ELECTED! WHAT HAPPENS NEXT IS YET TO BE SEEN,SO WHY PROJECT WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN THERE IS NO ONE THAT KNOWS THE FUTURE. KEEP THE FAITH
How is it that the Democrats have had the majority in Congress for the last two years, yet have a lower approval rating than President Bush, and we, as a country, see fit to elect a Democrat as a president? That's the kind of thinking that got him elected, but remember it was mostly young and uneducated folks that voted for him. They wanted change because they were told they needed change. They could not give you a coherent argument for change, other than the Democratic Party's talking points. Congratulations to the Democratic Party, they did a great job of selling this guy to America and enlisting the aforementioned individuals to elect him. All branches of government are now run by the Democrats, they will be able to take credit for all successes, but will also have to take responsibilities for all failures and general weakening of our country. Four years will probably not tear this country down, but it will probably educate many as to why our country does not need to be changed "fundamentally", as Mr. Obama has stated.
The middle class is not going to feel any relief. Where did you get that idea? The middle class is going to stay right where it is, the rich are going to pay more taxes so the lazy ones can stay home and watch soap operas all day while the rest of us work. Nice going America!!! You wanted change and you will have it now!
My daughter came to me yesterday very upset. She is in 6th grade at Harris Middle School. They had a moc election at school yesterday. She told me that several black children told her that she was racist because she voted for McCain. I can't begin to tell you how upset this made me. My children don't know color. They were raised to respect everyone as a person. Then when I watched the news last night I was so surprised to see how much they focused on the "black" vote v/s the "white" vote. Who really cares! I'm half white and half american indian and I voted for Obama. And he will not be the first African-American President. He will be the firstBI-RACIAL PRESIDENT!!! GET IT RIGHT!
Your daughter can say what I told my daughter. I have no problem with Obama, but my beliefs fall more in line with McCain. That being said, I have no problem with him being president. My choice for the last two elections did nothing for me to be proud of. Now the other party will get there chance to see what they can do, if anything, for this country.
There is hope, people....Just look at California. The same people that voted for Obama also voted against sam-sex marriage. That tells me the moral compas isn't that far off. As for the abortion issue. I will never put myself, as a man, in the role of telling a woman what her choice MUST be. That's between her and God.
but remember it was mostly young and uneducated folks that voted for him.
-- Posted by ah64dive on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 2:25 PM
By young, do you mean under 65? Because that is the only age group in which Mccain had a majority.
And uneducated?
college graduates- Obama 53% Mccain 45%
Nice going America!!! You wanted change and you will have it now!
-- Posted by CONCERNED1010 on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 2:55 PM
You're welcome.
Richard
You make my point perfectly, but I will explain in depth. By young I speak of the larger than normal number of 24 and under. A college education does not mean you are necessarily educated on the issues. Remember the old saying; those that can do, do, and those that can't teach. Colleges and universities is were most of the Liberalism in this country is taught.
I want to know where all my free stuff is.
ah64dive,
So, you are basing your statement own your own assumptions rather than the actual data. Got it.
You want to know how Obama was able to reach the younger vote? He was able to tap into how they communicate. Cell phone text messages and the internet. He was able to raise $700 Million through conributions to his internet site.
Now, the Republican Party will have to learn that your average 20-something voter is not interested in listening to an old man try to tell them the he understands. Republicans (MY party, I must say) needs to go back and think of a different plan.
For fun, I went to Obama's website months ago and signed up. I received txt messages daily on activities and request for donations for as little as $10.00. His people discovered that you can either get $1,000 for 1,000 people or $1 from a million.
He won as a result of the new age campaign. School's out GOP! It's time to look at these lessons and understand that they better get younger FAST or the Dems are going to be in control for a LONG time.
Richard,
What are your sources? Are you able to interpret what you read, if not, you are a prime target of the Democrat's talking points. We can continue this debate in a couple of years, when the choice and it's effects will be more obvious.
Today I am sorry to be an American
sure beats the heck out of the last eight years.right on BARACK.
Hmmmm, this is occuring faster than I expected. Sounds like some second guessing and second thoughts going on. Now we can demand that our media, now that he is entrenched according to him for the next 10 years, tell exactly what they know about him rather than what it takes to elect him. Also throw all Acorn operatives out of the country. SO many voters that dont exist or were voting illegally.And it would be nice now that it's too late, to know who actually pulls his strings. Don't know about any of you folks, but I didn't even get a kiss out of this. This man has the endorsement of all of America's enemies, and all we think about is next weeks American idol. Does not anyone wonder where all his money came from. Bitter? You're darned tooten. Worried to the max about the next 4 years? You better believe it. Racist? Emphatically no. A number of qualfied black men and women are out there that I would gladly support, but I wont blindly support anyone because someone else thinks they can heal the sick and raise the dead. And before you accuse me, I have voted both as republican and as democrat. So no partisan accusations, please.
Greasemonkey,
Sorry to be so slow in response, but was just trying to keep that entrepenurial spirit going just so I can end up paying more taxes.
Anyway, my point was that the pro-choice stance does not always mean one must be pro- abortion. One may respect a women's right to choose, accepting that not all define life's commencement at conception (colorado got it right) or accept a moral condemnation of terminating a dangerous or unwanted pregnancy. Sometimes abortion is a consequence of circumstance, not of an absence of morals.
Too bad the T-G didn't stick around when the Fly was packed with 200 plus people, of all ages, races and both genders! It was a phenomenal night and at least 52% of the country agree... Well in other words 8,000,000 more people thought so. ;)
And yes, the only demographic that was a majority for McCain were people 65 and older... the same population that has seen the destruction of government and loss of retirement funds. Of course, if they own 9 houses like McCain and shoot wolf out of helicopters like Palin, they'll be fine for a few more years!
First, I am very proud of our black community to vote in the numbers that will prove to be a record in Bedford County.
In voting for a black president and one that will expand illegal foreign workers to take jobs from American citizens. All the illegal aliens are getting there illegal papers ready for approval. President Obama promised this in his election speeches.
Furthermore today, in Mexico City the violence has increased to the point that over 4000
Mexican citizens are dead. IN one year!!!. That equals more coming across our borders.
Now how is that any meaning to black America, well who when you want to get a job is the employer going to hire? Yep, illegal's, so you got a black president, but Will he provide the jobs for all Americans. No matter the color which is no longer an argument of racism that is now yesterday's news. It is still around, but cannot be used when trying to get rid of illegals in America.
I am saying this above to tell you all the truth of what is going to become. If we don't keep on our elected officials that now hold office at any levels.
I can only hope that All Bedford county citizens with the zeal of voting in this historic election. Will keep that feeling in keeping our elected officials from President of the United States. To our local elected officials. Americans for Americans first.
americanpatrol.com JS
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Donna Phillips the wife of Darryl Phillips? He is the manager of the Wal-Mart Distribution Center. The directive Wal-Mart placed on it's managers was to discourage their employees from being Obama supporters.
I am so glad it's over with. Now the sign stealing and people going on others property can stop.What little minded people to think stealing a sign would make the difference.I guess the theifs didn't know we had to pay for those signs. And for them to come on a persons property to steal them was tresspassing.
I am so glad to finally get The Bush's will be out of office and glad McCain didn't win.
Now we can get this old country back on the right track once again. We needed a Democrat in office eight years ago.And so glad we didn't have to wait and count on the state of Flordia.Al Gore should of been so lucky..........
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Donna Phillips the wife of Darryl Phillips? He is the manager of the Wal-Mart Distribution Center. The directive Wal-Mart placed on it's managers was to discourage their employees from being Obama supporters.
-- Posted by typeojim on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 8:59 PM
Did the directive say anything about employee's spouses? Don't think so... Wal Mart, like any other corporation who supports either side of the aisle has no right to mandate you support anyone, they can only restrict the support on their premises. I attended MULTIPLE meetings, rallies, and voter registration drives and never once saw Donna's husband. So, if in fact the directive has an substantive criteria to it, I do believe Darryl Phillips was not an active supporter, publicly, at least; therefore he adhered to the "policy" at hand.
Yeah the Fly was pretty jumping, great music, great fun. I got some pictures. Man, I tell you this, that was one of the best parties I have seen in a long time. I wish that would happen more often.
I wish Obama all the luck in the world. I do think that him winning really has nothing to do with him, it is only because America did not want another Republican in office. Bush lost that election for McCain, not McCain. Whoever ran on the Democratic ticket would have been victorious in this election.
typojim,
I can assure you this, there was no directive. Stop listening to rumor and innuendo and use your brain.
Over 250 people... It was amazing! EM did you get the pics of the giant Obama sign? Those took forever to put up, lol.
Bush certainly did not help McCain's case, nor did picking Sarah Palin or his erratic campaign moves. They were embattled within themselves, and I supposed nothing else could be expected since Bush operatives were largely in charge of the McCain campaign. McCain himself is a highly respectable American but it is so unfortunate he did not have the leadership skill necessary to reign in the arguing, and faltering campaign much sooner.
Affirmative action just got a booster shot. Yes, many of Obama's supporters are college educated, because they all have first choice of schools, and guaranteed tuition, where a lot of the white students with working parents do not qualify for grants and financial aid. All the people who have been trying to get the illegal immigrant problem addressed just lost that battle, too. Why would he concentrate on that issue, when it has been proven that it is a problem within his own family. For all of you who think Obama has come equipped with a magic wand, the only spell that has been cast is over your blinded eyes. He is only one man. He can do no more than Congress will allow him to do, and let's just pray that they can hold him at bay on some of these issues. I'm tired of people bashing George Bush. If he never accomplished another thing, I will always be proud of him for his leadership, the courage and strength he exhibited during the 911 crisis. He was not afraid to stare the enemy in the face and fight to control terrorism in our country. Obama may stare them in the face, but it will be over tea, or cocktails, holding hands with them and black-fisting his Muslim brothers whose pride he shares by continuing to wear his Muslim name like a badge of honor. Any Muslim truly converted to Christianity would have also change their name to a Christian name. I am terrified that come January 20, 2009, America will be sleeping with the enemy.
gottago,
we will just have to agree to disagree on this issue. I have never felt a woman has the right to choose whom she could kill. I have always believed that life begins at conception.
Gottago / Greasemonkey -
What most people miss about "Choice" is that only one of the three human beings involved gets a choice. Why should the woman get to make a unilateral decision to terminate the pregnancy over the protest of the father? Are they not both equally responsible for the pregnancy?
For that matter, if the woman is offered a unilateral choice, should not the man also? Lets say a woman becomes pregnant and chooses to carry the child to term; if the father disagrees and would choose to terminate the pregnancy, why should he be held liable for child support? After all if the woman gets unilateral rights, why not give the man at least one option?
Not trying to obfuscate here, but the argument gets even clearer when you factor in the child. In all this concern for "choice" and "rights" how is it that the child never gets any say-so on the central rights issue of life itself?
Honda 14, we have been living in scary times for 8 years,so where have you been?To Bid 10, what has 9/11 got to do with Obama becoming President? Just did't understand either one of your comments.
To the comment below me.....yeah we are in scary times and have been. I am definately aware of that. Its just scarier now with this man running country. Can't be much clearer than that.
schooldaze,
I personally do not believe that anyone should have a choice to kill the baby. I dont understand how if this is legal than how can we put mothers in jail for killing there children at any age. Wouldnt that be her "choice". Its also been proven that you do not get any more DNA info after conception. The only thing seperating that and an adult is time, food, air and water. The same thing that seperates a 2 year old from an adult. Thats my last comment on it, because I have found this to be an unwinnable argument.
This was a very emotional election to MANY PEOPLE, I got a little teary eyed watching the peoples excitement all over the world jumping for joy and dancing in the streets, and to actually see in my life time that an African American ran and was elected as President of the United States of America is trully a Blessing from God. I know their are some people bitter that Obama won, for what ever reason it may be, we are all entitled to our opinions, and should not be bashed for our opinions. But ones character will definately show through rude comments. I do believe had the economy been in much better shape that Obama would not be elected as president due to the fact of his race, and people that he have been associated with or around.
But I also know that if God wants it, he will make a way for it to be. I believe Barack Obama has his heart set on doing the right thing for ALL Americans. The United States of America does not consist of just Black and White, there are many more other races, religions, cultures, and beliefs that live in the United States and are American citizens. The middle class has been having to take lesser paying jobs, and loosing jobs to oversees, loosing health insurance, having to pay more on food, gas, and regular costs of living, but yet no increase in raise. Making middle class Americans becoming lower class Americans, while the wealthy get wealthier in their dealings with foreigners and the lesser fortunate of America. The Republicans has always cattered to the wealthy even by means of the middle - low class. The greed and selfishness is what put a strain on Americas economy and now the middle class and lower class are the ones paying for it to be fixed. It is long due for a change, those that are suffering "PRAYED FOR A CHANGE" and I believe God has heard our cry. He is still on the thrown. We are going to go through some more trials and tribulations, but he will carry us through. God Bless Obama to make the right decision of what is best for our country.
Why should the woman get to make a unilateral decision to terminate the pregnancy over the protest of the father? Are they not both equally responsible for the pregnancy? -- Posted by Schooldaze on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 9:35 AM
Because the woman is the one that has to carry, suffer and deliver the baby. This makes it a Medical issue for the woman. The father is not medically at risk, and no longer involved in the development of the child. He has done his part, simply injecting her with sperm.
I personally do not believe that anyone should have a choice to kill the baby. I dont understand how if this is legal than how can we put mothers in jail for killing there children at any age. Wouldnt that be her "choice". -- Posted by greasemonkey on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 12:22 PM
The difference is the ability for the child to survive on it's on. Children that are born, are able to eat, breathe, and survive the elements outside of the womb of their mother. It is therfore "Legally Murder". During certain stages of the pregnancy an embryo is not able to survive on it's on if it was detached from the mother. Therefore it has been conflicts over should there be abortions, and at what stage can one have abortions. Most women whose pregnancy has reached full term will be held liable for the death of the baby, being that it would have been able to survive on it's own with out being attached to the mother. Women not eating, taking cautions during their pregnancy, or taking care to be healthy can loose their babies also, even though they did not have an actual abortion, they mistreated "THEMSELVES" which in turn caused the baby not to survive. They will normally call this a Miss-carry, not carrying the baby to Full Term.
Momof3&3step&1gran
I for one am not bitter about Obama winning although I do not see it quite as you do. I don't understand why someone should be happy about an African American being elected President anymore than they should be happy about a white being elected. The Presidental seat should never be in question as to the race or gender of the candidate, it should always be who can help America the best and the one who has only American's interest at heart. I never thought Obama was qualified to be President but neither did I think McCain was qualified.
I hope I am wrong about Obama I hope he is a wonderful President and in four years we are so pleased with all he has done we are ready to re-elect him a second term.
I can honestly say one thing though..even though Obama stated several times during his campaign he did not want this election to be about race, it has been nothing but about race!! Even now after the election is over that is all I hear on the news, they continually talk about his race and the impact on Americans. Personally I think everyone of us should just get over it...Obama is Our New President I will stand behind him just as I did Bush. I may not agree with everything he does but I have never in my lifetime agreed with everything ANY President has done. We need somebody who understands what is happening to America, black and whites and I think Obama understands us pretty well. Afterall, Obama is as much white as he is Black.
Gottogo,
People are either pro-life or pro-abortion. Pro-choice is riding the fence. I understand that people think differently of when it is a baby and I know we disagree on this. I believe a baby is a baby at fertilization and if you read the Bible, there are countless verses that will back me up on it. When a woman finds out she is pregnant, she is usually around 8-9 weeks. That is when she will decide to abort or not. At 8 weeks, that baby has a heartbeat and fingers and can respond to touch. It's brain is fully developed and all body systems are present. Who has the right to decide whether that baby lives or dies and for what reason? Because it's unwanted? Obama believes it is okay to abort a 9 month pre-born baby. I'm just saying that Obama is now in a position to either help or hinder the abortion laws and from what I've read, I dont think he will be helping.
Momof3&3step&1gran,
I humbly submit that the "medical issue" you refer to is a human being. This human being is the only person in the "pro-choice" process that has the most to lose (his/her life) and absolutely no say in the matter.
You admit that both parties enjoy equal responsibility for the pregnancy, yet you feel as though the woman should have unilateral rights. How would you feel if the situation were reversed?
Get off the "my body = my choice" bandwagon and think for a minute. From the moment of conception that embryo can be nothing else but a human being. No amount of legalese or other dodge can detract from the simple logic.
No matter how you care to explain your position in this politically correct environment, you know in your heart and soul that every abortion kills a child. That, my dear, is the bottom line.
Ya'll can argue all you want. I'm still looking for my free stuff.
No matter how you care to explain your position in this politically correct environment, you know in your heart and soul that every abortion kills a child. That, my dear, is the bottom line.
-- Posted by Schooldaze on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 2:44 PM
It kills a potential child, Bottom Line there is no guarantee the fetus would ever become a baby.
In this same sense I am assuming you are against birth control also..for it too kills the POTENIAL child.
I have had embryology classes and none of them have ever covinced me that the mass of dividing cells produced is anything more than a parasite dependent on a host.
And ZT most women figure it out in 3-6 weeks or less. Since ovulation is around 14 days prior to the first day of a woman's period and she notices she has missed the period or is late, she goes and buys a pregnancy test.
Ok gottago- I stand corrected.
A woman is around 4-6 weeks when she finds out. But even still, by that time, the baby has a heartbeat and is a 'baby'. There is lots going on inside it's tiny body. That is my concern. Abortion is too EASY in today's society.
Abortion is too EASY in today's society.
-- Posted by ZT on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 4:18 PM
Easy? Who do you think abortion is easy for? The mother? The decision of an abortion could never be an easy decision for anyone. That would have to be one of the hardest choices a mother could ever make but is is sometimes the only choice for a mother.We should never judge a mother on her views of whether or not she can provide for her child until we walk a mile in her shoes. There is not one person who is For Abortion but many who are Pro Choice.
I had a miscarriage at 10 weeks and let me assure you even that was not easy nor did it look anything like a baby in any way.
I think that some of you are missing the BIG point here.
The facts are what they are. Obama, is for redistribution of wealth and for big government, more government control of the citizens. This philosophy that government is our parent is in stark contrast to what our forefathers of this country intended. The premise and basis for the establishment of America was to get away from the tyrannical rule of the English Empire and the King George (Big Government). They understood that too much government control was a bad thing. THEY, wished to have and give the common man the ability to pursue his own happiness; or to fail in his endeavors if he chose so. Responsibility for YOUR own actions. They wished for freedom from big government control and now we have a president that proposes big government control. Fyi, read this book for me, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrug... .
Obama's ideas regarding universal health care will destroy our health care system. In all of the other countries that have allowed the government to be in charge of health care the citizens have to wait for months for procedures. Some die while waiting to be operated on. Canada has government-controlled healthcare and many of them come to this country for surgery.
My fundamental problem with Obama is that his future for America is not what our forefathers intended, but a future that gives the government too many controls over the common man.
In comparing Obama to Hitler; I see a similarity with the following that he has that is very similar with the blind following of the masses that Hitler had. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Obama is Hitler, my point of historical reference is only based upon my understanding of the history regarding how Hitler enthralled the masses and they thought he was their savior. The same thing, in my opinion is occurring with Obama. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitle...
DianaTn / Gotta go,
It does not matter what the embryo looks like, the fact is that it is an embryonic HUMAN BEING.
As to potentiality, again, the potential exists for the embryo to develop into a human being. Factually, if the fetus is not viable the abortion will occur naturally. As in the sad case of miscarriage.
Birth control does not terminate the existence of any embryo. It merely prevents conception.
I'm sorry folks, but argue tangentially if you like, the core issue remains that an abortion is the medical murder of a viable human being. Before you argue viability or when that applies, consider that an abortion is not preformed on a non-viable (dead) embryo or fetus. That is the DNC procedure.
A DNC and abortion are entirely different procedures with entirely different purposes and intended outcomes.
The good news is that everyone here was not aborted by our mothers. I wonder what other opinions would be offered by those who never got a chance.
Good points, Brett I could not have said it better myself. The truth is too many people have no concern of the 'big picture' and want the government to provide a degree of ease for them personally. They have no regards for the monetary cost(while many of them pay no tax at all) and certainly do not value personal responsibilty.
If the education system is any indicator of a government institution I want no part of it.
Point Is:
If you don't believe in abortions then by all means, don't have one but do not try and tell others what to believe.
Schooldaze,
Fine, lovely,and wonderful. If you don't support abortion, don't have one. Your concept of morality does not apply to the rest of the world. Leave my right to choose alone or better yet go to a part of the world that likes to merge religion and goverment. Show too much skin and they just might stone ya.
Look, people will terminate pregnancies as long as there are pregnancies to terminate, the legality of such would be irrevelant. If you know any women's health nurses or doctor's of the pre-roe era, ask them to tell you stories. It just ain't pretty. Here is something else that may surprise you. My strongest pro-choice opinions were formed as a freshman Biology/Chemistry major at a strongly conservative Christian school(what was I thinking?). The images were pretty rough but the point was to illustrate to the students the ethical choices they may have to make in their potential medical careers.
I have lost interest in this arguement.
sorry my post contained an error. Argument not 'arguement'. Noticed as soon as i hit save.
Momof3&3step&1gran
I for one am not bitter about Obama winning although I do not see it quite as you do. I don't understand why someone should be happy about an African American being elected President anymore than they should be happy about a white being elected. -- Posted by Dianatn on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 1:27 PM
Dianatn. that is because your parents, parents, or even there parents parents was not forced into slavery, beaten, raped, and tortued as some of my ancestors had gone through. African americans had to fight for the right of any and everything; to be educated, to eat in the same restaurants, attend the same schools, ride at the front of the bus, use bathrooms and drink from water fountains as whites did, the right to freedom from slavery, the right to vote and with each right they fought for they were beaten, told they can't have it and some where killed. For each right of equality that we eventually received, people cried and rejoiced, "Why?" because someone lossed blood, sweat, and their life so that we can have a better life. The United States of Americas citizens consist of MANY RACES, not just White and Black. But dating back to 04/30/1789 and of all the presidents of the United States of America (43) all you see is ONE RACE "white". Racism still exist to this day, not every business or organization will accept another race other than white into it, some Country Clubs, and some businesses still will descriminate as to who they will hire, not just by race. Most African Americans can see that times are changing and Blacks are receiving more equality in American society, but none would believe that a African American, man of color, someones race other than white would become President of The United States of America. This is the HIGHEST OFFICE that any one can hold in America. And to African Americans this is another equality that we have recieved. And it brings memories back of what all blacks had to go through to get equal rights, the speaches and encouragement that people like Martin Luther King had to give to many broken scared and unbelieving hearts, but desperate wanting and needing equality hearts. It's another caged door that has opened. The Black people that voted for Obama, had 2 joys they were celebrating. That the canidate they felt will do more for the majority of America which I'm sure included themselves, and the fact that equality was possible even in the Highest of Office, a President. I don't know how else to explain why blacks would be happy about this to you, other than Imagine you and your family (mother, father, sisters, brothers, children, etc.) were kidnapped by some man, and he beat you, raped you, made and forced you do things you did not want to do. And after say 25 years of enduring this tortue he knew what he was doing was wrong, and after all the begging and pleading that you and your family did for freedom, God gave him a change of heart, and he decided to let you go. Now 25 years has passed, and some of you family members were killed trying to help you all escape, do you know how you would feel? Possibly similar.
Momof3&3step&1gran,
I humbly submit that the "medical issue" you refer to is a human being. This human being is the only person in the "pro-choice" process that has the most to lose (his/her life) and absolutely no say in the matter.
You admit that both parties enjoy equal responsibility for the pregnancy, yet you feel as though the woman should have unilateral rights. How would you feel if the situation were reversed?
Get off the "my body = my choice" bandwagon and think for a minute. From the moment of conception that embryo can be nothing else but a human being. No amount of legalese or other dodge can detract from the simple logic.
No matter how you care to explain your position in this politically correct environment, you know in your heart and soul that every abortion kills a child. That, my dear, is the bottom line. -- Posted by Schooldaze on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 2:44 PM
Schooldaze you are entitle to your Own belief, and decision of your own body or what have you. I did not say I was For Abortion, nor against abortion. You asked a question saying:
Why should the woman get to make a unilateral decision to terminate the pregnancy over the protest of the father? Are they not both equally responsible for the pregnancy?
And I said: Because the woman is the one that has to carry, suffer and deliver the baby. This makes it a Medical issue for the woman. The father is not medically at risk, and no longer involved in the development of the child. He has done his part, simply injecting her with sperm.
I did not say the embryo was a "medical issue" I said the "Woman is a medical Issue" she has a risk of having complications and possibly dying herself, while the father is not affected. This is why it becomes "HER" say so because it involves her body, and risk of her life.
Liberal Democrats will now control the White House, The House and Senate. Just thinking about it scares me. The President, along with cohorts Nancy Pelosi, Harry Ried and Barney Frank will tax hard working Americans into oblivion. Count on it.
As i read some of the posts below, I can't help but think some of you are pro abortion or at least pro choice where someone can have an abortion. think about this!
If a drunk driver hits another car with theirs killing a pregnant woman and her unborn child, should that drunk driver be held on two counts of murder(Vehicular homicide). One for the mother and one for the unborn child. Most of you would say yes and in fact that is how the courts see it too. On many occasions people are found guilty of killing both in many situations. So how is it you say that the driver kills and goes to jail and mothers can kill their own child and not.
You sound like a bunch of hypocrites to me. Maybe you should actually stop and think long and hard before posting any support of killing of any kind. It's hard to believe anyone would want to support anyone or anything that legalizes killing of anything or anyone. We have more laws protecting whales and trees than protecting babies.
"This is why it becomes "HER" say so because it involves her body, and risk of her life.
-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 2:05 AM"
OK, if I accept that point of discussion, then it is the man's prerogative to "opt out" of child support in a situation where he would prefer abortion and she wants to go to term, because it involves his wallet, and the risk of his financial future?
"Point Is:
If you don't believe in abortions then by all means, don't have one but do not try and tell others what to believe.
-- Posted by Dianatn on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 8:40 PM"
Isn't that exactly what you are doing?
"I have lost interest in this arguement.
-- Posted by gottago on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 8:46 PM"
I don't doubt it for a minute. Great way to avoid even attempting to rationalize your position. AKA - "Whatever"
Dianatn. that is because your parents, parents, or even there parents parents was not forced into slavery, beaten, raped, and tortued as some of my ancestors had gone through. African americans had to fight for the right of any and everything; to be educated, to eat in the same restaurants, attend the same schools, ride at the front of the bus, use bathrooms and drink from water fountains as whites did, the right to freedom from slavery, the right to vote and with each right they fought for they were beaten, told they can't have it and some where killedPosted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 1:48 AM
No, my ancestors were not slaves "pre say" but all of my female relatives were treated as slaves just as the African Americans were they had no rights the were beaten and raped. When women tried to stand up for their own personal rights they were burned as witches...hmmmmm sounds to me like we were all in the same boat. Stop and think one minute how badly the Jews were treated and killed by the thousands. I am not saying any of this is right you just need to understand African American's were not the only race or gender to be mistreated. As long as you continue to hold on to the hate you will never move forward.
And still none of this makes Barack qualified to be President.
Schooldaze,
One thing is for certain, the argument of abortion is one of no new information, resulting in both parties talking past one another.
I rationalize my argument on science and never religion. While I am not saying that religion is your motivation, it is for many.
Your rudeness to those disagree with you is disturbing. Diana, or any other poster for that matter, is not trying to tell you what to believe. She is just telling you that you have no right to step on someone's belief. In other words 'live and let live'.
When am I gonna get all my free stuff?
When am I gonna get all my free stuff?
-- Posted by tatersue on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 11:39 AM
I am sure it is on it's way :>)
Now 25 years has passed, and some of you family members were killed trying to help you all escape, do you know how you would feel? Possibly similar.
-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 1:48 AM
So we had slavery in 1983?
Your rudeness to those disagree with you is disturbing. Diana, or any other poster for that matter, is not trying to tell you what to believe. She is just telling you that you have no right to step on someone's belief. In other words 'live and let live'.
-- Posted by gottago on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 11:24 AM
Leave my right to choose alone or better yet go to a part of the world that likes to merge religion and goverment. Show too much skin and they just might stone ya.
-- Posted by gottago on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 8:4
I've heard of love it or leave it but never abort it or leave it. Than't the last defense of an indefensible argument and besides that it is rude.
You are right abortions will continue to happen even if current law is changed. So will rapes and murders even though the law prohibits them. I prefer my moral and ethical positions to be aligned with law abiders instead of law breakers. Just as I prefer to be anti-abortion instead of pro-abortion.
I am reposting this, again, because I think it is escaping too many of you. Please read my comments and consider them, this is the real issue at stake people.
I think that some of you are missing the BIG point here.
The facts are what they are. Obama, is for redistribution of wealth and for big government, more government control of the citizens. This philosophy that government is our parent is in stark contrast to what our forefathers of this country intended. The premise and basis for the establishment of America was to get away from the tyrannical rule of the English Empire and the King George (Big Government). They understood that too much government control was a bad thing. THEY, wished to have and give the common man the ability to pursue his own happiness; or to fail in his endeavors if he chose so. Responsibility for YOUR own actions. They wished for freedom from big government control and now we have a president that proposes big government control. Fyi, read this book for me, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrug... .
Obama's ideas regarding universal health care will destroy our health care system. In all of the other countries that have allowed the government to be in charge of health care the citizens have to wait for months for procedures. Some die while waiting to be operated on. Canada has government-controlled healthcare and many of them come to this country for surgery.
My fundamental problem with Obama is that his future for America is not what our forefathers intended, but a future that gives the government too many controls over the common man.
In comparing Obama to Hitler; I see a similarity with the following that he has that is very similar with the blind following of the masses that Hitler had. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Obama is Hitler, my point of historical reference is only based upon my understanding of the history regarding how Hitler enthralled the masses and they thought he was their savior. The same thing, in my opinion is occurring with Obama. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitle...
-- Posted by Brett Favre on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 8:02 PM
"This is why it becomes "HER" say so because it involves her body, and risk of her life.
-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 2:05 AM"
OK, if I accept that point of discussion, then it is the man's prerogative to "opt out" of child support in a situation where he would prefer abortion and she wants to go to term, because it involves his wallet, and the risk of his financial future?-- Posted by Schooldaze on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 10:24 AM
I tell you what, go ahead and get some woman pregnant, (If in fact you really could) then tell the woman you do not want the baby, and when the baby is born and she takes you to court for child support, tell them you don't think you have to pay because you wanted her to have an abortion. That should answer your question. And also ask them how can you "MAKE" her carry your baby to full term and delivery if she does not want to. Those should be pretty interesting. You can always consult a attorney, they know more about all of this than I would. No man can tell or force a woman to do something with her body unless he himself is a threat to her.
Now 25 years has passed, and some of you family members were killed trying to help you all escape, do you know how you would feel? Possibly similar.-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 1:48 AM
So we had slavery in 1983?-- Posted by greasemonkey on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 2:31 PM
Now Greasemoney where did I say Slavery was 25 years ago, or given a date on slavery? Where did I even say ANYTHING happened "25 YEARS AGO"? Reread it.
I don't know how else to explain why blacks would be happy about this to you, other than Imagine you and your family (mother, father, sisters, brothers, children, etc.) were kidnapped by some man, and he beat you, raped you, made and forced you do things you did not want to do. And after say 25 years of enduring this tortue he knew what he was doing was wrong, and after all the begging and pleading that you and your family did for freedom, God gave him a change of heart, and he decided to let you go. Now 25 years has passed, and some of you family members were killed trying to help you all escape, do you know how you would feel? Possibly similar. -- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 1:48 AM
No, my ancestors were not slaves "pre say" but all of my female relatives were treated as slaves just as the African Americans were they had no rights the were beaten and raped. When women tried to stand up for their own personal rights they were burned as witches...hmmmmm sounds to me like we were all in the same boat. Stop and think one minute how badly the Jews were treated and killed by the thousands. I am not saying any of this is right you just need to understand African American's were not the only race or gender to be mistreated. As long as you continue to hold on to the hate you will never move forward.
And still none of this makes Barack qualified to be President.-- Posted by Dianatn on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 10:25 AM
Well let me ask you this then Dianatn. "WHO" beat, raped, took away the rights, and made all your female relatives slaves,and burned them as witches when they fought for their rights? Did your Fore-Fathers undergo the same treatment?
How did they get free, how did they win their rights? Are you not thankful that you are not the slave now or your children? Who are you thanking for bringing your family out of these devilish acts? Or do you even care? If no one stood for the rights, then I imagine we all would still be slaves, And I would not bring my children into an evil world like that. I'ld rather die than to see my children suffer that torment. I have to tell you like this I am thankful to all my Fore-fathers that risked and gave their lives in the fight for freedom and equal rights for the African - Americans because if they had not I would not be able to put a smile on my face when I hear MAJORITY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (INCLUDING YOUR RACE) seen passed racism and hate for someone different than them and elect them as president, NOT BECAUSE HE IS BLACK! But because they know he will do a better job for the country overall than his opponent. They know he wants to help the country get back on track, and refuses to ignore the MAJORITY (95%) of the country like the passed president and his opponent (JM) PLANNED to do.
I'm curious as to how you got "HATE" out of, "HAPPY". I never said I hate anyone!
I don't understand why someone should be happy about an African American being elected President anymore than they should be happy about a white being elected. The Presidental seat should never be in question as to the race or gender of the candidate, it should always be who can help America the best and the one who has only American's interest at heart. I never thought Obama was qualified to be President but neither did I think McCain was qualified. -- Posted by Dianatn on Thu, Nov 6, 2008, at 1:27 PM
I was happy when a White president was elected, Bill Clinton and (Although white presidents is all that was elected anyway)
Yes you are right the Presidential seat should never be about race or gender, nor should it be about religion either, but all 3 were during the campaign against Hillary and McCain. Not by just Blacks but more so "Whites".
Qualifications for President of the United States of America:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_q...
Momof3&3step&1gran
I understand exactly what you are saying and trying with all my might to understand how you feel although I know I can not. But you know as well as I do more than half of the black population that voted for Barack Obama did so merely because he is black and that is no reason to vote for anybody black or white! They fail to see that his mother was white and he was raised in his white grandparents home.
Most of which do not have a clue as to what his policies really are..
As I said before, I am hoping Barack Obama will be the best President we have ever had, even though I do not agree with many of his issues.
I do not expect to agree 100% with any President, I never have yet.
Having the Requirements to be President does not make him qualified. Experience is what Obama is lacking and I hope he is smart enough to surround himself with people who do have the experience it takes to run our country. And above all I hope he puts America first before any other country.
Brett,
Your statements about healthcare are sooo true. I read both posts and for the most part agree with you. My concern with healthcare comes from both sides of the the issue. I would love to hear how this is really going to effect hospitals and those working in the hospitals, such as myself. I know what nurse patient ratio is now, and it keeps getting worse. What will happen when the government takes even more control over the medical arena? I love my job, and even more so I love taking care of people, but when the "care" part gets left out of the picture, I sometimes wonder who will be left to acually provide the needed care.
The middle class is not going to feel any relief. Where did you get that idea? The middle class is going to stay right where it is, the rich are going to pay more taxes so the lazy ones can stay home and watch soap operas all day while the rest of us work. Nice going America!!! You wanted change and you will have it now.
I have never seen a poor person give a man a job. Keep on taxing the people who furnish the jobs and give the money to the lazy trash who stand by the mailbox!!!
Time will show what type of person you have elected.
But you know as well as I do more than half of the black population that voted for Barack Obama did so merely because he is black and that is no reason to vote for anybody black or white!
Dianatn. No, no one should vote on a person because of their color, but should vote for what that president can do for them and their country. Do you believe McCain will help the middle class people economically wise? I myself felt he would cater more to the wealthy class, and middle class people will continue to have Job loss problems, more jobs going overseas, financial instability for lack of Good Paying jobs with Benefits, and constant war in Iraq that should have been over when their was no WMA found. They should have kept going after Osama Bin Laden, which I believe George Bush had stopped and made them focus else where on Iraq simply because of the Bin Ladens family's partnership in the oil industry, and the OIL industry itself. They should have kept control over Iran when they were making Nuclear material, but did not, they wanted to keep focusing on Sadaam Hussein, who is now dead and they still want to stay their in Iraq spending millions of Tax Payers dollars on things that Iraq can finance themselves. I don't think John McCain is competent enough when it comes to running the Business of the country because for one thing he don't even recognize when the Economy is Struggling. I think he is more so running for president to control our troops, and will let the Bush Administration tell him what and how to run the country. But you know as well as I do more than half of the white population that voted for John McCain did so merely because Barack Obama is black and that is no reason to vote for anybody black or white!
I didn't vote for McCain either. I voted Independent Party :>)
Exactly what would they have done differently? Absolutely nothing... Because nobody will listen to them, lol. Fact is, "independent" candidates are nothing more than a combination of both ideals... and they need to learn how to advertise themselves a bit more so more than 1/10 of 1 percent of the population knows who the hell they are.
. 'But you know as well as I do more than half of the white population that voted for John McCain did so merely because Barack Obama is black'
THIS is a racist comment. Do you have any proof to back this up?
Again it is NOT up to the government to bail out the middle class and most people would not want to be bailed out.
gottago,
I did not vote for Obama because he was black, I voted against him because he is a socialist.
Keep playing that old worn out race card buddy, it appears to me now that most white men are victims of racism.
Brett the Jett
I hope to throw 0 interceptions tomorrow.
'But you know as well as I do more than half of the white population that voted for John McCain did so merely because Barack Obama is black'
THIS is a racist comment. Do you have any proof to back this up?
Again it is NOT up to the government to bail out the middle class and most people would not want to be bailed out.-- Posted by gottago on Sat, Nov 8, 2008, at 4:56 PM
gottago, If you think what I posted was racist, then you OBVIOUSLY thinks what Dianatn. posted was racist too. But of course you failed to mention that. I myself would never say this on my own, but done it as a mirror to Dianatn. belief that most blacks voted for Obama simply because he was black. It was done to let her know that this can go both ways. Do I actually believe that "More than Half" white people voted for McCain because Obama is black? I believe "SOME" whites did, just like I believe "SOME" blacks voted for Obama because he was black. I also believe some whites voted for McCain because of "FEAR" that Barack Hussein Obama is going to turn America into a Muslim Nation. The rest I believe voted for McCain simply because they always vote Republican party.
And let me say this to you as well, It IS NOT up to the middle class to Bail out the Wealthy CEO's, Banks, and Wall Street either, But we where FORCED TO whether we wanted to or not!
My view came from news articles, TV appearances, videos and actual people telling me they were voting for Barack Obama because, Quote: "We need a Black president" or "It's time for a Black President" Exactly what is your view based on Momof3&3step&1gran? I have not seen one article or one video or heard one person say they were not voting for Obama because he is Black!!!
Mom,,
Look, many members of the middle class CHOSE to buy more house than they could afford. There is no excuse to not know that 28% and NO MORE should go to a mortgage payment. I bought my first house at 22 straight out of college, and knew this then. There are no excuses.
And for the ones suddenly in a bind by ARM's or interest only loans, again they did this themselves. Everyone knows that one of these loans is great if you have extra money to throw at the principal, thus when the loans reset you have a lower loan to value and in great condition to re-fi. Too many failed to do the research.
I also hope that those who voted for Obama did not do so in hopes of universal health care. Look at the school system which as become a near autocratic regime with little personal choice. I certainly would not want the same for doctor's visits.
And about your comment about looking at pictures of the presidents and not seeing one that looks like you.. Good lord, I have never given a second thought,I never thought 'oh look no women, DISCRIMINATION!' That is a self-centered viewpoint.
If your comment was not meant to be racist, I certainly apologize.
Brett,
I did not say anything myself about Obama and race. i was responding to a conversation where one pointed out in a discussion regarding voter racism that white people voted for mccain. My intent was to point out the racism inherent in that statement. The quote referenced was above my statement. Maybe it was confusing, sorry.
gottago
I guess you think the banks didn't know what they were doing by giving out loans that they knew people could not afford because we had no problem rushing in to bail them out?
Diane,
Of course, I believe that banks hold fault as well, but at some point the individual has got to watch out for himself.
Hmmm, It's all about personal responsibility for ones own actions. What a novel idea.
Brett the Jett
And 0 interceptions today! Yeah!
There is no way that anyone can tell me that "partial birth abortion" or any other form of abortion isn't murder. No, I am not the judge of man, but I for one am not going to vote in office for someone who has NO sustain for life. If any mother who carries her baby for 9 months and then can let them put her into labor & and have the baby come out feet first so the head does not come out, and then do the things that are done to those poor little angels. Yet, a mother can have a baby in restroom and put it in the trash can & that is MURDER? What's the difference, I can't see anything any difference just that she didn't stab it in it's neck with scissors and then have the brain sucked out? That really doesn't make any sense does it.
To those of you who voted for him, that's great for you, but I didn't vote for him & it has nothing to do with the color of his SKIN it had to do with MORALS?? What I stand for & what he stood for didn't match. I once heard someone say "You need to make sure your choices add up with your decisions" To me they didn't as I will stand firm on my beliefs and feelings and everyone else will as well.
There are going to be times in our lives when we have to think of what we are standing for as the old saying goes "You have to stand for something or you will fall for anything".
Good lord, I have never given a second thought,I never thought 'oh look no women, DISCRIMINATION!' That is a self-centered viewpoint.
If your comment was not meant to be racist, I certainly apologize.-- Posted by gottago on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 9:02 AM
gottago, You will need to read my first post on here where I stated: This was a very emotional election to MANY PEOPLE, I got a little teary eyed watching the peoples excitement all over the world jumping for joy and dancing in the streets, and to actually see in my life time that an African American ran and was elected as President of the United States of America is trully a Blessing from God.
That statement made Dianatn. ask me: Momof3&3step&1gran
I for one am not bitter about Obama winning although I do not see it quite as you do. I don't understand why someone should be happy about an African American being elected President anymore than they should be happy about a white being elected. The Presidental seat should never be in question as to the race or gender of the candidate, it should always be who can help America the best and the one who has only American's interest at heart. I never thought Obama was qualified to be President but neither did I think McCain was qualified.
I tried to explain to her why I and some others are glad to see another history made in Black American History, and she responded: But you know as well as I do more than half of the black population that voted for Barack Obama did so merely because he is black and that is no reason to vote for anybody black or white!
My response to her was "not" intending to be racist but to try and make a point in showing her that her statement can go both ways, just like she said about blacks can also apply to whites. What she said, I did not see as being racist. I see it as "partly" true. That some did it simply because he was black and some did it because they trust him to do better for the overall country than McCain would. Not to mention that the Economy is in a shambles and the Democratic Party probably would have won it anyway because of that. But being that MAJORITY Blacks voted for Obama, some want to accuse them of doing so because of race, and not give them the benefit of the doubt that they are concerned about the economy, and did not want anymore of Bush copycat Cheif Of Commander.
Now 25 years has passed, and some of you family members were killed trying to help you all escape, do you know how you would feel? Possibly similar.-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 1:48 AM
So we had slavery in 1983?-- Posted by greasemonkey on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 2:31 PM
Now Greasemoney where did I say Slavery was 25 years ago, or given a date on slavery? Where did I even say ANYTHING happened "25 YEARS AGO"? Reread it.
I don't know how else to explain why blacks would be happy about this to you, other than Imagine you and your family (mother, father, sisters, brothers, children, etc.) were kidnapped by some man, and he beat you, raped you, made and forced you do things you did not want to do. And after say 25 years of enduring this tortue he knew what he was doing was wrong, and after all the begging and pleading that you and your family did for freedom, God gave him a change of heart, and he decided to let you go. Now 25 years has passed, and some of you family members were killed trying to help you all escape, do you know how you would feel? Possibly similar. -- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 1:48 AM
-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 9:42 PM
Actually none of what you said makes any sense. Did this happen to you? Your ancestors? How does this make Obama fit to lead? Its a little like crazy talk.
In my opinion CHANGE is what is wrong in this nation now. Everyone wants to change what God created and how he intented things to be for us. If we followed our bible and lived by his commandments we would not need change. GOD is what this country needs. We need to put him back into our schools and back into our courthouses and most of all back into our lives and homes. We need to educate our children about God and to teach them morals. Thats why so many young and college students voted for him. We did not teach them any better. They think abortion is okay. It's MURDER any way you look at it and its WRONG. We as christians need to stand together and do what God wants his children to do.
I'm still waiting on my free stuff.
Actually none of what you said makes any sense. Did this happen to you? Your ancestors? How does this make Obama fit to lead? Its a little like crazy talk.-- Posted by greasemonkey on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 12:41 PM
Greasemonkey, you are one that will never get it! I'm sorry. Believe it or not it is written their in Black & White, and if you can not understand what I'm say, and why I'm saying, then you will never understand. Possibly Little ole Shelbyville does not teach much on Black History. Go Figure.... Just the same why do you and others keep talking about what your Founding Fathers did, and base things on them. Catch my drift. ; P
Error-
and if you can not understand what I'm say, and why I'm saying,
Should have said: and if you can not understand what I'm saying, and why I'm saying,
On the race issue,
According to the Tennessee exit poll, 27% of the respondents answered yes to the question "Was Race of Candidates a Factor to You?", with 44% of those voting for Obama, and 52% for Mccain. So there was plenty of racism on both sides, but I don't think it was the deciding factor.
Does anyone actually believe Obama would have lost this election if he were white?
What's all that "free" stuff about and does anyone try to read all that?? If it's more than 2-3 short paragraphs, I want even try.
I don't believe race was an issue during the election and I don't believe it will be an issue for President-elect Obama.
It has already become evident though, through statements actually made by some African-Americans or Blacks, that there may be some reverse racism among some populations. In other words, some black people appear to think this is their ticket to be vengeful. To them I would say that Obama has played and will continue to play the power game so they may be mistaken.
My concern was with his policies and his 'friends'.
Greasemonkey, you are one that will never get it! I'm sorry. Believe it or not it is written their in Black & White, and if you can not understand what I'm say, and why I'm saying, then you will never understand. Possibly Little ole Shelbyville does not teach much on Black History. Go Figure.... Just the same why do you and others keep talking about what your Founding Fathers did, and base things on them. Catch my drift. ; P
-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 7:01 PM
Actually I know quiet a bit about black history. The main difference is I refuse to take the blame for something that someone did before I was born. Its comments like yours and from people like Jesse Jackson that keep racism alive. I can honestly say that I am color blind, but I am constantly supposed to feel remorse for something I didnt do, I dont think so. I do not feel anger at what the Romans did to the Christians 2000 yrs ago. I do not feel angry at what the English did to colonists. I do not feel angry for the white people did to my great grandfathers people. I do understand this is a historical moment, and when you remove all of Obamas ignorant policies and social agenda, I am proud for the black people.
ditto that greasemonkey
Is it me or is the fact that 41 million of the 66 million votes for Obama coming from WHITE people (including myself) being overlooked?? SIXTY-ONE percent of his vote came from White Americans. LOL.. But who cares, it's much easier to keep talking about the racial divide.
Actually I know quiet a bit about black history. The main difference is I refuse to take the blame for something that someone did before I was born. Its comments like yours and from people like Jesse Jackson that keep racism alive. -- Posted by greasemonkey on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 9:51 AM
geasemonkey, This is what happens when you come into the conversation WITHOUT READING EVERYTHING THAT WAS SAID FROM THE BEGINNING! Now Did I say YOU or even Brett Favre were responsible for slavery? Of course I DID NOT... You are just trying to twist things around for an argument sake. Jesse Jackson was/is a Civil Rights Activist, and was there around Martin Luther King during his time on this Earth fighting for equal rights for all. And I could careless what you think about him. He will have my respect as well as others that speak out agaisnt seperatist, and racism as long as they are being fair to all other races too. But as for your comment about me being a racist.
What Have I said to you that was racist? That I got teary eyed watching others dance and celebrate Obamas' vitctory? That I did not believe I would see a Black President in my Life time? That Out of 219 years there has never been any other race as president than the white race? None of this is racist. All of these are "TRUE FACTS". Like I said before all of this got started when I showed emotion to the win of Obama. Then I get questioned as to why I and Blacks should be happy and pretty much told I should not have emotion for it and that the only reason my race voted for Obama was because he is black. Now, what would I look like saying the only reason the white people voted for Obama was because he was white. It sounds really stupid and so does questioning my happiness of his win. You take a look in the mirror greasemonkey you are the only one in this conversation stirring up racism. I can like whomever I choose just the same as you, and Dianatn. or Brett the Jett Favre. And Like I said before you didnt bother to say nothing about the comment to me from Dianatn. saying that blacks only voted for Obama because he is black, as being a racist comment, now have you. As a matter of fact do you see this statement as being racist?
Also, it's worth noting that the same folks that didn't want to be seen as black or white, but equals, are now the same that praise Obama simply because he's black. -- Posted by superx1250 on Wed, Nov 5, 2008, at 11:54 AM
Of Course Not, well it is very similar! And you claim to be Color Blind. Yea right. I'm done on this conversation with you. Have a nice night/day, and Get Over It. : )
14-88
White Brothers in Shelbyville let us stand strong for the challenges ahead.