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Dozer operator Don Taylor, who was paid by Roger Williams, works on the Fairfield Pike 'duck pond,' on June 4. Shelbyville City Council will contribute equipment and labor to repair a leak in the pond's dam. (T-G Photo by David Melson) [Order this photo] |
Shelbyville's public works department will be contributing equipment and labor to repair a leak in a dam at the "duck pond" on Fairfield Pike after the city council approved lending the landowners a hand.
But some are afraid that giving this assistance may set a precedent and open up a legal can of worms for the city.
The owners of the pond, Roger and Paralee Williams, have insisted that the city of Shelbyville is liable for part of the costs, while City Manager Ed Craig says the city can't legally work on private property because it doesn't own the pond.
But council member Lee Roy Cunningham raised the issue at Thursday's meeting, saying that the city should lend a hand to the Williams family.
Cunningham said it was his understanding the city repaired the dam years ago and that it was within the city's right of way.
Planning and codes director Kip Green told the council there is a 50-foot right of way from the center of Fairfield Pike -- 25 feet on each side.
Cunningham also stated that the pond is not only a area for fish and ducks, but is also a detention pond for storm water run-off.
"All he's (Roger Williams) asking is for the city to help repair the leak in the dam," councilman Thomas Landers said. "He's doing all the digging out."
Craig said he enjoys the duck pond as much as many others in Shelbyville do, but stressed that the pond and the dam is on private property.
"If part of it intrudes into the right-of-way, it doesn't make it ours, it still belongs to the owner of the property," Craig said, adding that he and public works director Mark Clanton are constantly having issues with citizens that want the city to do work with problems on private property.
"There's an expression that lawyers use -- 'hard cases make bad law' -- and this is a hard case because everybody likes the pond," Craig said. Councilman Al Stephenson asked what would happen to the water if Williams decided to fill in the pond. Craig replied that Williams would be required to get a grading permit and would have to prove he is not allowing any more water to go downstream than is going now.
Mayor Wallace Cartwright asked if the council wanted to defer the matter until Clanton could take a look at the situation, but the council continued debate.
Landers asked if the city was responsible for digging the ditch that carries the water to the pond, why aren't they responsible for what happens to the water in the pond.
"This is such a historic site, but we are opening a can of worms if we work on private property," council member Kay Rose said.
The city will be allowing the use of equipment and labor only and Williams will have to pay for the expenses himself.
Rose added an addendum to the motion stating that the city was participating in the repair of the leak "only because this is such an historic site."
After discussion, the council voted unanimously to help the property owners.
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Does this mean that the City of Shelbyville, just loves to work on private property, between the work done on the square and now this. I have a water drainage problem in my backyard, i wonder if they will donate equipment and labor to fix it. private property means just that PRIVATE, please would the city stay out of it.
Its people like you shelbyvillecitizen221 that will make a big fuss over this. Let the city lend workers, what is it going to hurt?? Does a majority of Bedford Co. take their kids to your backyard to feed the ducks?? I understand where you are coming from..but give it a break!
Thank you Thomas Landers for some "common sense" leadership. Keep 'em on their toes!
I am Glad the city is helping save the duck pond..
We have all enjoyed the Duck pond over the years and it should be a community project. Maybe after the work of getting the pond back to it's natural state is finished some of us who have loved the Duck Pond in years past could help with the landscaping?
I would be more than happy to help bring the Duck Pond back to the way I remember it when my children were small..
It's time the citizen's made a fuss over the City using man hours and equipment to "help" personal property owners with their problems. We have already set a precedent when we tore down personal property buildings on the square with taxpayer money. I once had a business and had cleared a lot of trees and shrubs off my property, and had them thrown as close to the road as I could get them without them being in the road, but because my property was on a curve, the city truck would not back down to where the brush was piled to pick the branches up with its big scoop. I argued that the city had a utility pole set on the same property that they were claiming was private property and that the city had the right of way to the property, but Mr. Sullivan and I went round after round because he claimed the city's insurance would not cover any damage if work was done on private property. Now the city all of a sudden can generously afford to help private citizens with the duck pond. Yes, my family has enjoyed the duck pond, too. But these people acquired this property full knowing that ownership brings responsibility and along with responsibility comes cost. If the city is furnishing equipment and labor, how is the owner paying the "expenses" himself? Equipment and labor ARE THE EXPENSES and I'm sure the city treasurer is paying for the wages of the laborers. As far as Mr. Cunningham wanting to help the owner out, he also wanted the council to help himself out by changing codes that adversely affected him not long ago. Why do we have laws and codes in Shelbyville when they only apply to a certain few? Can I get a list of the "good ole boys", so I can know who is exempt, or better yet, where can I pick up my application to get added to the list? You never know when you might need a little help from the city. I want to make sure I qualify!!
I think it's great they are helping out the public is the ones that use this pond. I always thought the city owned it. People should thank them for letting everyone enjoy there property.
Maybe if the judge did not hang out at the ex-sheriff's law office, the city would be more afraid to do something licke this! It just smells bad, doesn't it? Can you say kick backs?
I am so happy to hear that the city is helping to pay for this. The duck pond is a land mark in our town. I think that since the majority of people in Shelbyville has enjoyed the pond at some point in their life, it is our responsibility to help take care of it. I am ashamed at some of the negative attitudes that people have about this. We should all be thanking this family for being so kind to let our children over the years enjoy time at the duck pond!!!
Answer me this shelbyvillemom, now that the city has undertaken this project to help preserve this "public" landmark, if my grandchild or your children happen to fall in this pond and drown, who gets sued, the landowner or the city of Shelbyville, because in essence by preserving and maintaining this pond, the city says, hey, we are making ourselves partly liable for any danger this area poses. Just a wondering. . .
why does everyone have to talk about suing something, if a child fell in & drowned then maybe the parents should be held responsible and sue each other because evedently some one was not watching their child. And I would rather have the govt do a little work at this location than have it turn into another eye sore.
Why can't people just be nice instead of bringing up "What Ifs" and all that garb?? I'm glad they are going to help because right now it is just a stinky mudhole and I am looking forward to seeing it beautiful again. If you dont have anything nice to say, THEN DONT BLOG AT ALL!! I'm grateful that the owners care enough about it to clean it up and let EVERYONE feel welcome there!!
You people are nuts! Why not let the City help out for crying out loud. We all enjoy the Duck Pond! Well, not "all" of us, some folks probably sit in their homes and think of who they can sue next, or what they can cry about next.
Here's my question...if it's used by the city as a storm drain runoff and the Williams' decided to fill in the pond, wouldn't the city then have to build a storm drainage ditch to handle the overflow? Seems to me that it's cheaper to help fix the damn! Private property or not, if the city wants to come within 25 ft on my property, that's "their right of way" to do so and they will do what they want "because they can"...the damn is well within 25ft and if the city wants "their use" from it in heavy rain, then they should help with the repairs.
Seriously folks! What is the price tag? As if it were an unfair question...The infamous Kip Green involved in another SNAFU. And apparently the property owners have enough pull to get what they want.
So many nice comments about beautiful memories with children feeding ducks...renters or squatters of their living space?
When I closed on the purchase of my home I signed at least 30 documents in reguards to property lines, right of ways and a myriad of responsibilities. Trust me when I tell you the solution is in the properties documentation for ownership or the city could not have made it available for ownership.
The residents may be the kindest, sweetest and nicest people on their block...but they are shurking their responsibility and putting it on us. It sets bad precident and helps blurs the legal lines of right and wrong more and more when we all just accept.
When was the previous damn built? How do we know it was done right or wrong? When will we all be asked to fix the next leak? Mother nature does powerful things with water and there will be another problem in the course of time. Will we be expected to pay for that as well?
Get your greasy palms out of my pockets and stay out. The money for said project would be best spent teaching local deputys how to drive correctly.
If Obama wants to hand out money left and right for pork spending projects and make this country a welfare state and no one cares about that, then why should anyone complain about the
city helping to fix the pond?
Anyway, the city benefits from the area so I see no problem with them helping to fix the problem as long as the owners do their share also which they are evidently.
Glad they are helping.
Hmmm, maybe I missed the part in this story where it was actually costing you any more of your pocket money to help clean the pond.
As far as I can tell we all pay taxes in the city anyway and personally I like the idea of some of my tax money going to help preserve the Duck Pond. Which is much more a benefit to the residents than paying thousands of dollars for trees to be planted on the square only to come along and dig them up and replant more the next month. It doesn't matter if the waste of money is on city property or private property a waste of money would be a waste of money!! Wonder where all those trees they dug up went..we all know they weren't thrown away.
If it was me and I heard all these negative comments about who should be responsible, when I had allowed everyone in the area to use my property: I would fill the pond with rock and let the city use your tax dollars to figure out what to do with the storm water.
Why in the world doesn't Bell Buckle get a Duck Pond? Sounds like a great excuse to hold a "FESTIVAL". If you can get Shelbyville this stirred up about a bunch of ducks, think what the quacks in Bell Buckle would do. Amateur Knievel's would come from all over the state to jump their motorcycles over the pond while the kiddies eat Moon Pies and drink RC. First prize could be a case of Cap'n Rodney's Duck Sauce!
"Here's my question...if it's used by the city as a storm drain runoff and the Williams' decided to fill in the pond, wouldn't the city then have to build a storm drainage ditch to handle the overflow?"
i am not any sort of drainage expert, but i do know that a landowner is not allowed to make a change on their property that floods the neighbors. so that is a moot point.
as far as collecting runoff is concerned, it would seem that an empty pond, with a leaky dam would make a great collector for runoff, holding a large amount of water, and allowing it to slowly leak away. however, a full pond would hold little additional water, and most of the runoff water would simply pass thru and continue on its way.
i cant see where drainage is a valid issue in this case.
Just a note: These property owners have just acquired this property in the last few years, they had nothing to do with my children or most of your children enjoying the pond as it was in the past, because it has been a mess for quite some time. While they may turn out to be just as generous with their property as the previous owners, what's to say once the pond is cleaned up that this owner won't post a "private property, no trespassing" sign. Oh, excuse me there's another "what if" and a negative one at that. Someone in our city government should play the part of the devil's advocate in these meetings and seek answers to all these negative "what if's" so that the city can be spared future problems. There are too many decisions made without answering all the tough questions and listening to reason and LAW. That is what has gotten us into trouble in the past, and will lead us to future problems. Just for the record, I have never, and hope never to file a lawsuit against anyone, but there are people who do scheme and look for a way to make a quick buck, and when they see an opportunity, no one will be left out of the claim that has any association with the site. Why do you think we keep a city attorney on retainer? I enjoy the pond. I hope it is restored to its former beauty, but Mr. Craig is 100% correct in all his arguments on this matter. It is not a City problem, it is a property owner's problem. Elected officials should govern and make rulings based on laws and codes and whatever precepts are in place for the well-being of all. This sounds more like sentiment, emotionalism and warm fuzzies than sound judgment.
I have read the story about the duck pond and it has a simple answer. There is always a fight about money in this city and here is the answer. For many years people have enjoyed the duck ponds. The owners have been very kind harded and has always had to have insurance on them. What if the owners took and put up a fence around them and put up signs to stay out. The city could post an officer there to write tickets and fines to each one who wanted their kids to enjoy them. That is about as stupid as some of you sound. The owners could sell one day fishing permits and give the city .50 cents from each one. That makes about as much since as owning a car lot in town and moving it because the city would not put up lights to show them at night GROW UP!!!!!!!
I have know Roger and Peralee for a very long time and good friends with their children. They would never take advantage of the city helping them in anyway and then close off the duck pond's from everyone. They are not that kind of people at all. They as everyone else brought their children and grandchildren to those pond's and they was lucky enough to be able to buy the house and duck ponds and be able to fix them up. I am sure anyone else that had the property and wanted to fix the ponds up would be doing the same thing. They have made it look a lot better out on the grounds of it just by putting some benches out there and flowers. Grow up people if you don't know the family then don't come to a conclusion of what they will do before you actually know.
So when my commode stops up, I can get the city to come clean it up and fix it for me?
So when my commode stops up, I can get the city to come clean it up and fix it for me?
-- Posted by Chef Boy R.D. on Wed, Jun 17, 2009, at 3:47 PM
Only if they contributed to the problem. I can say this though I am sure if the city happens to be cutting a tree down in the city's right of way and it happens to fall on your property, I am sure you would expect them to clear it away.
What was that about the street lights and the car lot?
And what does the judge hanging out at the ex sheriff's office have to do with this?