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GoogleCitizens are invited to express their opinions on the matter starting at 6 p.m. in the courtroom at Shelbyville police headquarters.
The newly passed Public Chapter No. 428 authorizes citizens in Tennessee with handgun carry permits to be able to lawfully possess a firearm in federal, state or local parks.
However, cities also have the option of excluding their parks by passing a resolution, according to the University of Tennessee Municipal Technical Advisory Service, and many are already doing so.
So far, Memphis, Murfreesboro, Brentwood and Chattanooga as well as Williamson and Shelby counties have voted to exempt their parks.
A proposal to opt out of the measure died in Wartrace Monday night when no one voted on the issue.
Tullahoma is also considering voting to be excluded from the measure and Winchester as well as Manchester has already banned guns in its parks.
The new law goes into effect Sept. 1, and if Shelbyville chooses to enact the resolution, it would have to be done before that date.
The item is on the council's August agenda.
If enacted, the city would have to place signs that prohibit the weapons in its parks. Also, Shelbyville could amend the resolution to prohibit handguns in some parks, while allowing them in others.
The new law allows carry permit holders to possess a handgun "while within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, natural trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar place that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality ..."
The possession of weapons was already allowed in recreational areas for individuals in certain circumstances such as law enforcement, reserve officers in training, private police, lands designated as open for hunting, persons attending gun or knife shows, or someone delivering or picking up passengers who do not use the weapon in any manner.
Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. If you feel that a comment is offensive, please
I hope Shelbyville does not opt out. Wartrace was smart enough to not vote on it.Shelbyville should do the same. If you have a permit to carry the gun you are have gone thru the proper proceedure and are responsible these are the people who follow the law. Criminals do not care if a sign is posted they are going to do it anyways they don't follow the law. The only ones who will follow it are the law abiding citizens they are the ones who will end up being a victim of some thug who could care less if you say he can have a gun or not.
If they don't opt to ban guns in HV Griffin, I will NOT take my children to the park, period. Yes, there may be responsible people but there are non-responsible people too. All it takes is one.
That's a typical reckneckish move on the councils behalf to think with their rectoms rather than their brains. Why not vote on banning them in the bars where alcohol and guns don't mix, I'd rather have someone with a gun in the park on my side to aid against these park preditors than in a bar. And he notion we haven't had a problem in our parks is lunicrist, for it could happen at any time. I have my permit and would only use it to protect myself or someone in need of help, and proud to have. I carried a gun in war and never harmed an inocent bystander, let me carry it at home in the gun correct places. What the criminal does not know could hurt them.
poochie82 . . . a non-responsible person who has the intention of hurting someone will bring a gun in the park whether or not it's the law or not.
It is the same tired arguments we use to hear about liquor by the drink and we haven't seen any increase in crime due to that.
Why don't we just have an arsenal at the park entrance and then EVERYONE can arm themselves and everyone will be equal. That way the person that does not give a crap either way won't have to worry about the permit holders or the criminals packing. We can do the same at the bar entrances too. I'm sure the local funeral homes would be in favor of this.
I think everyone who has a handgun permit should be allowed to carry it with them wherever they go. Crime is not only on the streets, it is everywhere and a park is no exception. There's a bumper sticker that says "If guns are outlawed, then only outlaws will have guns." Maybe if enough people would carry guns, then it could send a strong message to all of the thugs to beware of the legal permit holder. Maybe it would discourage some from committing any crimes.
"If they don't opt to ban guns in HV Griffin, I will NOT take my children to the park, period."
-poochie82
Then you better stop taking them now. There are already plenty of guns in the park. And they are only in the hands of the "non-responsible". It is very naive to think that since guns are outlawed in parks, that no one is carrying guns in parks.
Why don't we all get gun permits and if the law allows we can all go anywhere we want carrying our guns and play good cowboy bad cowboy. Maybe even have a draw down in the streets every now and then to show who is the fastest draw.
Thank you chad-O. I just think back over the years at some of the "officials" I've seen that were carrying guns. Let's look at the constables. There was one that had the IQ of about 80. He was "elected" on a write in vote (all his family members) and this dork would show up with a gun on his hip. I'm now glad that I have the right to carry wherever I choose and thus defend myself from those who are carrying illegally.
All of those who think there will be shootouts in the street and gun battles in the isle at Wal-Mart have no idea what you are talking about. People already carry guns in parks and knives, mace, tasers and anything else they feel they need for protection. At least those of us with a legal right to carry and are well trained don't have to hide them any more.
If a person is able to pass the carry permit class and obtain their permit then where is it anyone's business to tell them where they can and cannot carry their weapon. I feel like many who oppose the ban are vilanizing those who carry legally. Those folks are usually the most responsible, law-abiding of us all! Should they wear their gun like a six-shooter on their hip, maybe not, but it is their right to protect themselves and their families. And yes folks, guns are out there everywhere...just because you can't seem them doesn't mean they aren't there. Allowing licensed folks to carry their weapons makes me feel much safer going into public areas like that. And one day when I feel confident & secure enough with my properly registered weapon to get my permit, I too will carry it with me as prescribed by law.
Since our commissioners have voted in Rutherford County to "exempt" the parks, maybe my tax dollars do not need to "promote" the parks. The counties that tell criminals.... come to our parks, we have everyone "unarmed" and waiting to give you what you want. Does this mean that these counties are RESPONSIBLE for my well being if I get shot by a thug while I am there? I am keeping my gun and to me that means the select few that use the parks should get to pay for the parks or shut them down.
people that carry guns are respectful,one day someone who carries a gun could save your life or a family member from harms way.we uphold the law and respect the good people,only the bad will be delt with,there are rapist,child molesters,crack heads,that walk in our parks.think about it,is there a policeman in every park?there are more citizens in parks that carry guns and obey the law.we go thru training and pay money for us to carry. criminals do not pay,or go thru the training or a back ground check,that is why they prey upon us,the good citizen.think people..
Those with non-carry permits will just blend in with those with carry permits. Kind of like the "Standard School Attire", Notice a pattern? Wonder will they pass a bill to allow "The Law abiding citizens with carry permits into the Court rooms, and schools as well? Who is going to be checking the permits when they come into the parks? Why do we have security guard driving around the park anyway? Why not arm the security guards, instead of letting citizens "PLAY Local Police Officers" to protect themselves and others in need of help".
Can't you just see on the news some teenagers getting into an argument and fighting at the park, and a "Law abiding carry permit citizen" pulling out their gun to shoot the teenager that is getting the best of the other teenager saying "I could have sworn one was a THUG and the other one wasn't". Then reading the headlines neither child had a weapon on them, they were fighting with their "Fist". The "Law abiding carry permit shooter would swear up and down he was helping a citizen in need of help, while taking another citizens LIFE AWAY (DEATH). Just wait till the parents get involved with the "Law abiding carry permit shooter that shot the teenager, and the City of Shelbyville that allowed him and others to carry the weapon on PUBLIC park property, can you hear it (LAW SUIT)." All ---- will break loose then.
People would be on the news saying they never should have allowed "Guns/Weapons in Parks in the first place". If their are so many "Guns in Shelbyville Parks" Like the good citizens of Shelbyville are claiming, then why aren't the "Good Law abiding Citizens reporting THOSE PEOPLE to the police, so they can arrest those non-carry permit criminals and thugs. Either you know who they are, or you are making "FALSE ACCUSATIONS". And my guess is that you are making false accusations, because if you was such a Law abiding citizen you would be reporting the ones you see with guns in the park to the police, if you are not seeing these people with guns in the parks then you are making "False Statemetns". And I have not seen nor heard any arrests of people with guns in the parks.
People that get carry permits are not evaluated for pshycological disorders, they run background checks on criminal records, and make sure they were not committed to a mental facility, or clinically labeled mental disorders. People with behavior problems or "hate issues" that have not been admitted to a mental institute, or have not had a criminal record are overlooked.
Just because a person does not have a criminal record does not make them a respectable person, nor a responsible person. They could be the type of person that leaves their gun in the car, unaware that a child is in the car handlining it, or not have a safety lock on it and misfire causing someone injury or their life. Or a person that carries it in a school or in the park in their purse forgetting they had it on them, and some young kid fascinated with guns takes it out of the purse playing with it and accidentally shoots some other kid. And you think one full 8 hr day at a certified training safety class makes everyone the perfect, responsible non-mistake making person to tote a gun around anywhere? Very shallow and careless thinking.
Just yesterday on the news, a report was made regarding a POLICE OFFICER who pulled his gun at a McDonald's because the service was slow.
He was well-trained and obviously had a permit, so how can the argument be made that permit holders are responsible?
I haven't actually done the research yet regarding the requirements for obtaining one because I don't plan to carry. My guns are at my house and will stay there.
Also, I would like to repeat a comment I made on the Wartrace park article.
Those permit holders who have been carrying in parks and hiding it--you were NOT acting responsibly then and you joined the criminal population by doing so.
Now that we have a carry permit law and guns are being allowed in more and more public places, what is being done to police those carrying a gun without a permit? Will we see at some point, a check for guns, as we do for expired drivers licence or illegal drugs? It seems to me the carry permit is for bragging rights. There is really no benefit to having a carry permit when those without a permit enjoy the same benefits. I favor gun ownership and the right to bear arms, even though I do not own a gun.
Those permit holders who have been carrying in parks and hiding it--you were NOT acting responsibly then and you joined the criminal population by doing so.
-- Posted by stardust on Thu, Jul 23, 2009, at 7:08 AM
It depends on how you believe the law works.
"All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void."
Marbury vs. Madison 5 US (2 Cranch) 137, 174, 176, (1803)
Momof3
Using your logic, shouldn't you have been forced to undergo psychological screening before you were allowed to conceive children?
After all how do we "know" that you are properly qualified to raise children? Surely a few hours of your time to undergo the proper tests wouldn't be too much to ask to insure the well-being of your potential offspring.
Again I challenge you to back up any of your "what-if" scenarios with statistics.
You can make up chicken little stories til the cows come home, but the facts don't back up your claims.
The supreme court has already ruled that schools,colleges, and universities that accept government money are disallowed from displaying the ten commandments because the federal funding creates a connection between the school and the feds, and conflicts with "separation of church and state".
Wouldn't a city government, which receives federal grant money, also suffer from the same "connection" with the feds, and likewise be prohibited from an outright ban on its property, based on the Heller decision?
Stardust you are so right! That is not what I call "Law abiding citizens" that is more like "Citizens taking the Law into their on Hands". And that will be the whole attitude and agenda for carrying these weapons in the first place, not simply for protection. If you don't believe me read the posts quitemike wrote about the police are not required to protect and serve. His main point is that he will be the police for himself and everyone else, and if others don't agree with him too bad, he is going to be the decision holder of any situation around him, and more than likely he does not know all the laws to be making those type of decisions. Sometimes you have to agree to disagree with people on here, or the arguments will continue. I agree the police job is to protect and serve for the Law sake, but they will not willingly turn their backs on citizens in need. Some things are just common sense regardless of what you read.
Quitemike, your remark to me has no point; children are having children now days because no one knows when people are getting together to concieve, how ever people going to a drivers license place to apply for a carry permit is a definite indication that a person is going to carry a gun into public places. As for my what-ifs comments: There was a teacher last year or so who was escorted out of a Shelbyville school for forgetting she had her gun in her purse and walked into the school with it; the incident was not published right away. (?) Let me just say this "CHILDREN AND GUNS DO NOT MIX FOR THE GOOD"!
http://www.t-g.com/story/1305002.html
http://www.videosift.com/video/Toddler-a...
http://fredericksburg.com/News/Web/2009/...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,3518...
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=63...
http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoen...
http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/20137446/d...
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/unca...
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article...
Stardust here are the requirements for a carry permit in the state of Tennessee.
http://www.tennessee.gov/sos/rules/1340/...
"You can make up chicken little stories til the cows come home, but the facts don't back up your claims."
-quietmike
Well said Mike. I agree 100%.
Momof3
Yes a teacher forgot her gun when going to school, but was there innocent blood running down the hallways as you'd have people to believe? No there wasn't.
As far as guns and children don't mix, I don't know where you were raised, but around here most kids I know were taught to shoot at a young age. It was considered a sign of "growing up" for your parents to trust you with a gun, I guess some still haven't.
There is no law requiring police to protect individuals, I posted facts to back that up and you, momof3, agreed with me at the time, or are you too confused to remember now.
That was a good collection of stories you posted, but NONE of them backed up the story you were telling of wild west showdowns between HCP holders.
Only one of the stories involved a HCP holder at all, and that one happened at his house.
Hysterical rantings are OK if that's your cup of tea, but we shouldn't base local laws on your scary stories when they have no basis in reality and can't be backed up with fact.
Momof3&3step&1gran,
Have you ever left your car keys in your purse unattended?
Have you ever left a knife on the kitchen table or in an unlocked drawer?
If so you have shown extremely poor judgment and should not be allowed to drive or prepare food.
It was only a year or so ago that a 9-10 yo boy went joy-ridding in his mother's car. How can anyone be so reckless?
I don't think quitemike was saying that he would be the "police" for himself and everyone else. He was just telling you that the police are not a taxi service. They are not there to pick you up and take you to the store and walk with you when you are at the park. The police come after the crime has taken place, they are seldom there when it is happening.
Maybe it is alright for you to watch while your child or grandchild is attacked and then call the police afterwards, but I prefer not to wait.
I'm also sure your yelling at the perpetrator to stop would only get you shot, stabbed, or knocked out, but it would not stop them.
No one is telling you that you must carry a weapon, you should not say we do not have that right. Hang out with the people you want to, only go to places that are safe from Law abiding citizens. It is OK with us.
I read the requirements for obtaining a permit. It looks to me like anyone who has not been "caught" breaking the law can get one by completing the application and taking one class.
How would that make me more responsible than anyone else? I think if you have a permit, you should be required to carry the gun so I can see it. That way I'll know who to watch out for and since a comment was made that you 'law-abiding' permit holders have been packing illegally anyway, I'll be suspicious of everyone. I already avoid people who I think look 'criminal'.
I still don't see why you need to carry a gun to a ball game or to the pool. By the way, where do you put your gun while you are swimming or playing tennis, etc.? Is it in a place where anyone can get it?
I understand carrying one if you are hiking in the woods, but not why you need one at a city park.
Stardust,
That same requirement of having not been "caught" committing a crime is the same criteria used for potential police officers.
As for why a person might need a gun at a ball game or a pool, you might ask why we need police officers at those same places. Your answer to one will answer the other.
As for why a person might need a gun at a ball game or a pool, you might ask why we need police officers at those same places. Your answer to one will answer the other.
-- Posted by quietmike on Sun, Jul 26, 2009, at 2:44 PM
I don't think we do need a police officer at a KID'S ball game or at the pool and you didn't tell me what you do with yours when you are in the pool.
If memory serves I've never used the pool at the park.
Momof3
Yes a teacher forgot her gun when going to school,
by Quitemike.
Proves my point on carelessness, and mistakes!
As far as guns and children don't mix, I don't know where you were raised, but around here most kids I know were taught to shoot at a young age. It was considered a sign of "growing up" for your parents to trust you with a gun, I guess some still haven't. by Quitemike
"Where" a person was raise is not as important as "How" they were raised; and as far as how many "kids" you know "Around Here", you "Do NOT know all of them". Everyone raise their children differently, I prefer not to teach my children to shoot (Real Guns) until they become an (LEGAL Age) were they are responsible for "their own actions".
That was a good collection of stories you posted, but NONE of them backed up the story you were telling of wild west showdowns between HCP holders.by Quitemike
All of them envolved carelessness, accidents with guns and children.
Hysterical rantings are OK if that's your cup of tea, but we shouldn't base local laws on your scary stories when they have no basis in reality and can't be backed up with fact. By Quitemike
I can say the same about your rantings as well, You show me a fact of a crime committed "with a gun" in Shelbyville Tennessee's Parks and I will leave it alone. Otherwise, what I say still holds true. You are not showing me anything like I'm constantly showing you.
There is no law requiring police to protect individuals, I posted facts to back that up and you, momof3, agreed with me at the time, or are you too confused to remember now.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-dut...
http://career.qandas.com/jobs/what-does-...
http://www.cap.nsw.edu.au/bb_site_intro/...
http://www.joinlapd.com/motto.html
http://www.shelbyvilletnpolice.org/missi...
I have not seen any news of the Bedford County police refusing to protect and help anyone "AROUND HERE" LOL. "NUFF SAID!"
If memory serves I've never used the pool at the park.
-- Posted by quietmike on Mon, Jul 27, 2009, at 3:36 AM
But, other permit holders do as well as using the Rec center. Would you be able to carry there?
You show me a fact of a crime committed "with a gun" in Shelbyville Tennessee's Parks and I will leave it alone.
-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran
So only crimes with guns count as "real" crimes to you?
If someone is robbed with a knife does that make it somewhat less of a crime?
As for stories of police not protecting folks, they do happen, otherwise what would be the need for those court cases you posted links to?
Maybe you should ask a few more people, because it has happened "AROUND HERE" LOL, it was in the late 70's if memory serves, and the victim sued the officers involved and won. NUFF SAID.
So only crimes with guns count as "real" crimes to you? by Quitemike.
Quitemike your "WHOLE POINT OF ARGUMENT", as well as others that are in favor of being allowed to carry your guns into Shelbyville's parks, was that "Criminals are carrying their guns into parks" so why can't we". Is that not what you and others been trying to point out? Neither you or anyone else have pointed out a criminal cought with a gun in Shelbyville Parks. If you know their are criminals in the parks with guns, then why haven't you called the police on them and have them arrested?
Maybe because the only criminals carrying guns into the parks are people that "call themselves Law abiding citizens with carry permits"; who in fact ARE breaking the Law.
What are the police, and security guards for?
As for stories of police not protecting folks, they do happen, otherwise what would be the need for those court cases you posted links to? by Quitemike.
Quitemike I know the police can not protect everyone, neither can people with carrypermits. But your argument was that they can "REFUSE" to protect some one, and I am asking you "Where" is this fact that the Shelbyville Police department refused to Protect someone from harm?????????
Their is one case I know of that is supposedly happeninig "OR" going to be happening, where a man wants to sue the city, and I think county of Shelbyville as well as Officers, and that is Marvin Parker's case. I do not believe "He" called the police to come and protect him, and they said no, he stated they would not allow him to sign a warrant against other people once he was arrested. Not the same as you are trying to state.
I was born in 68 so I would be too young to remember such a case in the 70's, my apologies if that were true. You yourself do not have enough information to explain what happened on that one occassion to persuade me differently. These are all I see about suing something in Shelbyville, or the police:
http://www.t-g.com/story/1554659.html
http://www.t-g.com/story/1182644.html
A suing of the News paper mentioned here:
http://knoxvilletalks.com/2008/01/04/fai...
I believe the man's name was Green. His house was shot at for a long period of time (hours). He called police six or seven times and the police never answered the call for help. He sued several officers in Federal court for violating his civil rights and won.
your "WHOLE POINT OF ARGUMENT", as well as others that are in favor of being allowed to carry your guns into Shelbyville's parks, was that "Criminals are carrying their guns into parks" so why can't we". Is that not what you and others been trying to point out?
Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran
No, My point was that the police are not there to prevent crimes, only to take the report AFTER a crime has been committed. Personal safety is PERSONAL and I don't think we should have that constitutional right restricted especially when "gun free zones" have been the scene of most mass shootings in recent times.
In truth, the likelihood of needing a gun in the park is slim, but I also keep a spare tire in my car even though the likelihood of needing it is slim as well.
People with carry-permits will react "AFTER" a crime as well. You can't pull your gun on someone just because you "THINK" he/she is going to commit a crime. Police on the other hand can act on suspicion, if people would report suspicous acts to them and give them a chance to do "Their Job", then it could possibly be prevented.
But a person with a carry-permit will surely get in trouble for perpertrating as a police officer, or other offenses. I could definately see some legal issues spurring about from all of this, should things get out of hand.