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GoogleAnd while most of those who spoke about the issue of guns wanted to be able to carry a firearm to protect themselves, the majority of those speaking live outside of Shelbyville.
Seven of the nine people who voiced their opinion wanted to have the right to possess a weapon while in the park with only two opposing.
Phillip Smith of Wartrace said his parents live in Shelbyville and that his family uses city parks and "the only responsible thing to do is to uphold state law" by allowing those with handgun permits to be allowed to carry them.
He said that Wartrace recently upheld the rights of citizens by not banning firearms in parks. A proposal to opt out of the measure died in that town last week when no one voted on the issue.
Smith pointed out that the law only applies to one group -- law-abiding citizens with a legal carry permit.
"If you are a criminal who intends to bring a firearm into the park, a resolution will have absolutely no effect on them," Smith said. He detailed the background checks and training that permit holders must go through to legally carry a weapon.
If passed, the law-abiding citizen would follow the no guns in parks rule, but not criminals, Smith said. He said the greatest deterrent to crooks is the fear that their victim may be armed.
Sam Catallo lives in Tullahoma, but works in Wartrace, with many family members living there, and his family also uses the parks. He said that only people impacted by the proposed measure are those who spent the money and went through the training to abide by the law.
"Why disarm the only people that you trust," he said. He said if firearms they are banned, the only people who will have guns are the ones that are not allowed to carry them.
Another Tullahoma resident, Steve Bowles, used the example of a park rapist caught in Nashville to make his point, saying if that person he encountered someone with a firearm, other incidents may not have occurred. While Bowles said he lived out of town, he also stated that he spent a lot of time in Shelbyville and Bedford County.
Several other Wartrace residents echoed the opinions of others who spoke in favor of allowing guns in the parks
However, Bobby Sanders of Shelbyville spoke against allowing the firearms, saying that he believed more guns meant more shooting. Another Shelbyville resident, Harold Rose, also was against the idea, saying that he can't recall anyone getting shot in the park.
"Who is in danger?" he asked. "What are police officers for?"
One of the Wartrace residents brought up the recent assault of Johnny Smith as proof that citizens should have the right to protect themselves.
The newly passed Public Chapter No. 428 authorizes citizens in Tennessee with handgun carry permits to be able to lawfully possess a firearm in federal, state or local parks.
However, many cities have chosen the option of excluding their parks by passing a resolution drawn up by the University of Tennessee Municipal Technical Advisory Service, and have already done so.
So far, Memphis, Murfreesboro, Brentwood and Chattanooga as well as Williamson and Shelby counties have voted to exempt their parks. Tullahoma is also considering voting to be excluded from the measure and Winchester as well as Manchester has already banned guns in its parks.
The new law goes into effect Sept. 1, and if Shelbyville chooses to enact the resolution, it would have to be done before that date. The council will vote on the measure when they meet on Aug. 13.
Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. If you feel that a comment is offensive, please
I live in Bedford County but out of the city limits. I am for being able to carry your gun with a permit. I do use the park. If you own a scanner you can listen and see the police are so busy now they can't keep up. What good will that do after the fact. I know the council is only worried about the city voters but you never know when one of us will become a city voter. I don't know that anyone has been shot in the park or will ever be if you allow guns. Then again no one had ever flown a plane into a building until 9/11 but why stick with prevention.....
People who are afraid of permit holders are afraid of the wrong people. "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."
This seems like such a no-brainer. There are many things that we have the right to do (take off our pants, drink beer, shoot fireworks, carry swords and axes, etc.) that we are not permitted to do in kiddie parks. Because guns, even when handled by law- abiding citizens, are dangerous and often deadly, shouldn't we at least do our best to keep them out of playgrounds, schools, day care centers, etc? I realize some people would violate the ban anyway but that is the case with any law and is hardly a reason not to have a law at all. By the same logic there need not be a law against nudity in parks because only the law-abiding would comply and perverts would still do it. I love my guns. But this is not Wyoming in 1850. There is a time and place for firearms and those who advocate for unlimited, illogical and unrealistic gun rights need to realize that. Guns and playgrounds don't mix.
Cars, even when they are driven by law abiding citizens are dangerous, and often deadly, so shouldn't we do our best to keep them out of our parks? How many children are killed by careless drivers every year?
Why does some people's fear of guns not carry over to other items that have a much higher likelihood of causing harm?
Thatsmystory, I totally agree. People are working on the assumption that by putting a sign up it's going to keep guns out of a park. WRONG! What it does is signal to criminals that the law-abiding potential victims in a given area are unarmed and therefore easy prey. Personally, I'd rather be in a park surrounded by 20 permitted gun owners. You think that just because no one has been shot in one of our parks that guns aren't there?! How clueless! Guns are everywhere. The question is who is carrying them and why.
Robert Allison is soooo right. Gun kill millions every day. Only cops and soilders should have guns. Who do you people think you are Dirty Harry? The government people knows best, you guys should just listen and do what they say!!! Laws totaly work, whens the last time someone in the park was arrested for anything that was illegal. Shelbyville needs to ban all guns!!!!!
Well, why don't we just everyone a gun and do away with the law enforcement!! The police department is only a few minutes away! They need to handle situations in the parks--not citizens carrying guns! You can't carry a gun onto school property -- why would you carry one into a park??
PLEASE ban guns in parks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Exactly there has to be a crime committed first before the police are called........
You can't carry a gun onto school property
-- Posted by nomountainman on Wed, Jul 29, 2009, at 1:51 PM
And that has prevented so many school shootings...
um...
wait..
nevermind.
Virginia Tech gunman Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 people on April 16, 2007, then committed suicide as police closed in. He broke the law by bringing a gun on campus. His mental health records would have prevented him from ever obtaining a carry permit. Would that number be lower if a teacher or student who had a carry permit been allowed to carry on campus? Does the same logic apply to parks? Of course it does.
You all argue as if someone has asserted that this law was intended to prevent criminals from shooting people on purpose. Of course this law will do nothing to stop that. Instead, the purpose of the law is to prevent good, law abiding citizens from shooting children on accident.
then shouldn't we ban cars in the park to keep good, law abiding folks from running over kids by accident?
218,000 Tenneseans currently hold a legal carry permit and not one has ever been convicted of a crime! Who are you people afraid of?
Little johnny cracksack is in the park right now with a .25 in his pocket and he does not care one bit how many laws you pass, tomorrow he will still be in the park with his pistole in his pocket.
I personally know of one mugging that was only prevented by a otherwise law abiding citizen "carrying" in the park while he was jogging. Had he not had his pistol he might have been that "shooting victim that Mr. Rhodes is looking for.
Cars are not allowed in parks. They are allowed in parking lots because that is how people get to the park. That is a silly analogy.
WOW, what a stroke of genius you are Mr. Allsion......
"Cars are not allowed in parks. They are allowed in parking lots because that is how people get to the park. That is a silly analogy. Robert Allison"
Yeah because parking lots are not a part of the park........????????? So I can carry my firearm in the parking lot just not next to the swing set and jungle gym.....
Okay...so I have been really quite & have not spoke in regards to this...But have kept up with the story. I take my children to the park to play; Needless to say, I think that it is pure stupidity to feel the need to carry a gun around a kiddies' park, what the most danger there?? The screaming three years old? Or the red wasp that seem to follow you around? Seriously, saying that you need to carry a gun into a children's place of playing is like saying that you need to carry a gun to school...or saying that you need your gun to take to church..I mean you never know when someone in the pew behind you is going to rob you, right?? To actually STOP and THINK about it, what are YOU up too if YOU feel the need to carry a weapon into our parks??
No but if someone tries to take off w/ my child when in the park at least I can try to stop them. Wake up!!! You never know what creeps are lurking out there or when they are going to strike.
So should we tell the police they are not needed in the park? If there is no danger at all, they could be more useful elsewhere.
I stay right with my kids, they are not allowed to wonder off, maybe you should adopt this method and you would not have to worry about it, therefore eliminates the need for a gun.
No we should not, but you are not the law..Just because you have a permit to carry doesn't make you able to go around pretending to play cops and robbers.
No one is saying play cops and robbers, we are saying we have right to defend ourselves if it becomes necessary.
You admit there is a need for the police at the park, and apparently the cops alone aren't enough, otherwise the city wouldn't go to the extra expense of a park security officer.
* Children are abducted from parks by predators.
* Columbine & VA Tech killings which I already mentioned.
* Monday was the anniversary of a gunman who killed 2 and wounded 6 in a church here in TN.
Have you been to the park lately? How many parents are "Perfect" parents like yourself? Even as perfect as we think we might be, what's to stop a full grown male predator from overpowering a single mother w/2 kids like myself? Without my firearm, all I can do is describe what he looked like and submit pictures of my child that he took.
Yes, you are right, and I seen that security put to use because of people speeding, or parents at the ball games acting crazy and yelling, screaming and throwing a fit.
Now here is an example, let's let one of these out of control parents have a permit and they are just completely out of control and they decide to prove a point they going to pull out their weapon...what type of position does that leave all of the innocent by standers & children in??
I challenge you to find ONE case of a person with a HCP losing their temper and shooting someone in a park.
On the other hand I can cite several case where places with bans on guns were invaded by people with guns and dozens of innocent people were kidnapped, raped, or killed before the police could stop it.
Considering what I and others had to go through to earn a carry permit, which includes, training, test, background checks, finger prints on file with the FBI and TBI. WE are not the people who "decide to prove a point" with a firearm.
According to a TV story last week, armed security guards are some of the most dangerous people there are. They get a uniform, and a gun, but they don't have all the training both technically and psychologically needed to carry a weapon. Being armed with a gun and a permit does not necessarily mean you are trained and equipped mentally to handle dangerous situations under stressful circumstances. I do believe that every person has a right to bear arms and protect "their property and person", but Parks do not belong to individuals, they belong to cities, counties, states and the Federal Government. These are the entities that should be protecting our parks, not individuals. Personally if I felt uncomfortable in a Park setting, and did not feel it had proper lighting, security or if its reputation was one that was suspect, I would not frequent that Park, and if it was public property I would be complaining to the proper public officials responsible for maintaining safety in public places. I don't want trigger happy people bandishing weapons and firing bullets over my head while I'm trying to have a picnic lunch!
writeattitude:
Personal protection is not a law enforcement issue.
It's not an issue for the "proper public officals"
Personal protection is a fundamental human-rights issue. As well as constitutional protected one......
I think I'd rather face a thug than a young mom with two screaming toddlers on a PMS day packing a pistol. I remember those days well, when it wouldn't take much to make me go baulistic!
WE NEED TO TAKING GUN AWAY FROM PEOPLE RATHER THAN GIVING MORE PEOPLE GUNS WE HAVE TO MANY PEOPLE KILLED WITH GUNS NOW TAKE AWAY ALL GUNS AND LET EVERY ONE GET ALONG ARE WE GOI9NG TO CHECK
EVERY ONE TO SEE IF THEY HAVE A CARRY PERMIT BEFORE WE LET THEM ENTER A TAX PAYER PARK
Guys,
GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE.
PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.
PERIOD.
I've been reading Mr. Allison's comments on this subject for a week now and so far I've not heard one point that has been backed up by fact.
As I recall Mr. A. is a lawyer here in town. You would think that someone who argued for a living could come up with stat.s or examples or site some case to back up his point of veiw but so far we've heard nothing of the sort.
Should I ever fall off the deep end and go on that shooting spree that he is so certain all of us right wing radicals are planning (only waiting for that ordanace from the city council to allow guns in the park) I don't think I'll retain his services, We would get the chair for sure! I'll just keep John Nortons number handy, you might want to do the same.
You all argue as if someone has asserted that this law was intended to prevent criminals from shooting people on purpose. Of course this law will do nothing to stop that. Instead, the purpose of the law is to prevent good, law abiding citizens from shooting children on accident.
ok Mr. Allison, so your saying its ok for non-law biding citizens to shoot innocent children on accident when a drug deal goes bad...real smart...how did you make it through law school? i have a carry permit and it stays with me all the time. i paid good hard earned money to go through the class, register with the TBI and FBI, pay for the back ground check which i proudly passed because i am law abiding..the founding fathers of this great country established the right to keep and bear arms and by God thats what im gonna do. all government should stop trying to keep us from enjoying our rights. that person with the handgun carry permit may just save your life or one of your family members if you cant defend yourself or them.
Haven't we had enough of people who do not live in Shelbyville telling us how to run our city?
bomelson,
you are assuming that only out-of-towners want to allow HCP's in the park.
Even with the article's slant, you can see that many want to allow them:
"Several other Wartrace residents echoed the opinions of others who spoke in favor of allowing guns in the parks "
Who are these "others" the paper refers to?
AND
""Who is in danger?" he asked. "What are police officers for?" "
That question answers itself though.
MoMmYoF2bOyZ, I really agree with you statement. As a ex Officer of the park, it is hard enough to keep irate parents in line without having to add the extra trouble to fiqure out if they are armed or not. It is fairly easy to spot a thug that looks like they are up to something, I put several of them in jail when I worked for the park, but when you ad the freedom for everyone to carry in the parks you dont know who to look out for anymore. Im all for guns to be carried where you want to but not in our parks.
It's strange that a former park security officer has put so many "thugs" in jail, when park security doesn't have arrest powers.
I am not at all worried about my safety at our parks. I also do not really care one way or the other about the outcome of this vote. What I do worry about is the force of the argument to allow guns in parks. I wonder if some of you responsible holders have really thought about what you are asking for.
I have known many people who carry at all times. They have even routinely carried at the park, as a matter of fact, one was a long time league coach. So what? They felt the need to have one, but they also realized that they had better have a very good reason to ever even think about pulling it out.
With the carry license now, and the accepted admittance to the parks, it is not too difficult for me to foresee situations where actions and behaviors may be misread or overreacted to.
What concerns me is the few holders who, when actually put in a situation of heightened alert, may just pull it out and lower it simply because they do not have the same doubts about possessing it, and in some possible instances, even want to. Kids fighting, kids hiding behind a tree at night, teenagers being rambunctious, it all happens, and when one is already paranoid, many times we see only what we want to see, or fear the most.
No matter what you guys say, there are a small percentage of holders who are petrified that there is someone who wants to harm them everywhere they go. With all the talk of gangs and terrorists, I am not surprised. There are also those few who really do want to be a hero, and may even go out of their way one day to get involved in a situation where they can prove their prowess, even if they could have avoided it. I realize that they are in the minority, but they do exist, and all the checks and training in the world will not weed them out. Even the most optimistic among you can not actually believe that they would.
If a criminal (at the park, or anywhere else) is going to do you harm, he will do it whether or not you have a gun. If the desire is strong enough, he will just shoot you in the back of the head if he believes that is his only safe option. Having a firearm will not protect you. The criminal always has the advantage no matter what, he moves first and unless he is a bad shot, or you are fast on the draw, one shot is all it takes. There is just no way around that. If the carry holder makes the first move, he becomes the criminal.
I sympathize with your issue about having a right to be armed. I also have a right to smoke. I however do not smoke at the park unless I am all but alone and I would not object to a park-wide ban. It is all a matter of the right time and place.
I do believe most of you people commenting are very responsible, but what you are doing is assuming and implying that everyone who has (or will get) a permit will be as well. That is a tough position to take, and not one I would personally feel comfortable with.
bomelson . . . I live in Wartrace but I use the Shelbyville park some and spend money there just like anyone else. I think I have the right to express my opinion one way or the other if I want and so does anyone else who uses the park and spends money there even if they don't officially live within then Shelbyville city limits. After all, all they are doing is giving their opinion on the matter.
To be honest, I could care less which way the gun law goes because I don't own one nor will I ever carry one but also am not "paranoid" to think that if guns are allowed then all of the sudden the parks will become the wild west and there will be shootouts and people playing cowboys. What is the difference between someone being able to carry a gun in Wal-Mart or the park . . . people seem to get more upset at Wal-Mart than they do a park. LOL! I mean really, have you seen the people waiting at the customer courtesy desk with only one employee . . . they definitely don't look happy.
i went to that meeting, because i was curious as to what would be said. there was indeed only one person from shelbyville who spoke in favor of opening the park up for guns.
during the "discussion" the pro gun-toting crowd implied that everyone would be safer, were the speakers at the meeting in the park carrying their guns. i would like to opt out of that "protection", and here is why:
judgement. the pro gun group turned out dressed as if they were going to a meeting of the aryan nation. not that i think they are white supremacists, especially since i know many of them personally, and they are most decidedly not that way. but they still went to a meeting where they hoped to impress the council that they were responsible, but lacked the judgement to dress appropriately to their audience and message. why would i expect them to show better judgement on using a firearm among the general public?
distorted self-image. the "discussion": began with a young man asserting that the hcp holders are all "law abiding" citizens, and ended with the same man warning that, should guns remain disallowed at the park, they would carry anyway. "law abiding" does not mean that a person obeys the law only when it suits them.
identification. if i did not know these young men, and was at the park with my own gun, heard a disturbance, and turned to see any one of those fellows from the meeting pulling out a gun, i would shoot them. the police wear uniforms for a reason. an armed vigilante and an armed criminal cannot be easily distinguished on sight.
training. hcp holders take a quickie one-day class on gun safety. referring to this as being trained undermines my confidence in their capability and suitability to provide protection to park users.
their own arguments. one young man stated that he went to the park to play basketball, and wanted to have his gun along. does this mean he plays with a gun in his pocket? that isnt safe. if he does not have the gun on his person, is it then in his car, where a thug committing a B&E in the parking lot turns into an armed criminal, or does he leave it wrapped up in his jacket beside the court where any child could come along and pick it up? the woman who spoke stated that her son played soccer, and she needed to carry a gun to protect him. from who? the rough kid on the other team? the coach that doesnt put him in soon enough? or maybe the official that "cards" him? it seems less than realistic to believe that a criminal is going to immediately be attracted to a crowd of people at a soccer game to commit his dastardly deeds. had anyone spoke of concern about walking the greenway, that would have made sense.
admittedly, i was neither swayed by the gentleman who stated that he didnt believe in guns and wouldnt have one, didnt want one anywhere around. having grown up in a house with guns, and believing in the right to own a gun, the very existence of a gun does not bother me. however, gun safety is a lifelong commitment, not a one day quickie class, and i believe that a responsible gun owner exercises good judgement as to where it is or is not appropriate to be armed. ballfields, swimming pools, and playgrounds are not appropriate places to carry a gun. it is my position that the state legislature, in bowing to pressure from a tiny minority and creating this whole mess, has behaved irresponsibly and in reality done more to harm the right to own a gun than to help it.
A couple of you have seen fit to question by comment pertaining to Shelbyville handling Shelbyville's problems. That's fine. You have that right and I'll stand up for you having that right.
I will say I have a few qualifications to express my opinion. I've used the park, all areas of it, for years and have covered many sporting events there. Also, I live practically in the park, have seen good things nad as very few bad things happened there...plus I've taken photographs of 200 homicide scenes, the majority of them caused by guns.
Those factors plus the fact my taxes help pay for the park are about it for my qualifications to have an opinion. Thanks.
Get A Grip,
I thought that was why we do have laws and law enforcement so that we don't all go around taking matters into our own hands. Many people have had to stand trial and claim self-defense for taking matters into their own hands and trying to settle differences with a weapon. For some strange reason, I can't place exactly why, but I sort of thought that the Wyatt Earp days of gunslinging and duels had somehow passed. Hmmmmmm? Wonder why I thought that!
All of you Gun NUTS had better enjoy them while you can. We are going to ban your guns from our kiddie parks, then we are going to take them away. Your gun slinging days of BUSH are over. I am so glad there are some sinasable people on here like lazarus, bomelson and writeattitude who agree with me. keep up the good fight and don't let these rednecks push you arond.
I wouldn't stand to close if I were you when you try to take my gun.
sinasable??? Is that even a word? Maybe you should focus on education rather than gun control.
Anyway, before you start talking about taking people's guns away maybe you should read the Constitution or maybe that isn't "sinasable" to you. LOL!
"the majority of those speaking live outside of Shelbyville"..... If they lived outside of Bedford County then I would be concerned, but the park is used by everyone in Bedford County.
ChangeHasCome21Girl.... Maybe you need to move to another area. An area full up socialist policies. An area that doesn't beleive in the Consitution. Sounds like you want to live in Obamaville DC. But young lady, you have no idea what you are talking about or why you are following blindly into an area where you will loose every right you have. It's those like you that finally voted for the first time and didn't even understand the beliefs of the person you were voting for.
And writeattitude .... All I will say is this... I would rather face 12 on a jury than 6 at my funeral. If someone is trying to harm my family, then I will use EVERY means in my power legal or illegal to protect them. So you know what...I will carry even if it's not legal. As for shootouts....That's what gun control people like you want everyone to believe. "If everyone is carrying a gun, then there will be blood in the streets" but the stats have never proven that. In fact, towns that allow open carry have seen their crime rates fall. What house would you break in to? One that you know has and uses guns or the home you know that doesn't have any guns?
You gun people are just hiding behind facts.
lazarus is right you are skin head racists.
I have challenged folks to find a case of a "wild west showdown" between HCP holders, or a case of someone with a HCP losing their temper and shooting someone at a park....No one has come up with one, but still that is the rally cry of keeping guns out of the park.
Think of some of the most dangerous places in this country and almost all of them have very restrictive gun-control laws, on the other hand areas with gun-friendly laws are usually lower than average crime areas.
Personal safety is PERSONAL and we shouldn't have that right taken away especially since the majority of mass shooting in recent history have occurred in "gun free zones".
The police are mostly good folks and do a thankless job, but police are there to take the reports AFTER a crime has been committed. The few numbers of police and constitutional rights prevent police from being able to PREVENT crimes in most cases.
Also, there are court cases that say the police have no responsibility to help individuals, only society at large. That would be cold comfort if it were you or your loved one who was that individual who wasn't helped.
It has happened here before.
You gun people are just hiding behind facts.
-- Posted by ChangeHasCome21Girl
Spoken like a true liberal "don't let the facts get in the way of my rantings"
It all boils down to the fact that laws, either for or against weapon possession, will not prevent non-law abiding citizens from possessing a weapon wherever they so choose. People, whether you realize it or not, there are countless individuals possessing weapons in prohibited areas now. Any law which restricts the possession of a weapon is only applicable to law abiding citizens. When are we going to get fed up with the nonsense of tying the hands of law abiders?
To the city council members and/or their spouses who have chosen this forum to make your point, I have the following statement for you...I can understand why you are afraid of guns. I can appreciate the fact that you don't want to be around them. I really do understand that. You have been so accustomed to having non-law abiding people making the news with their miss-use of weapons that you are actually terrified of guns. Using this thought process, why are you not terrified of automobiles because non-law abiding people choose to drive intoxicated and harm innocent people? Don't you think we should perhaps limit where automobiles can be driven because someone could get hurt by it? Shouldn't we prohibit automobiles in our parks because some drunken driver might run off the road and into a playground or a ball field? I know this sounds absurd, but the thought process is the same. You can choose to deny the facts or you can rationally think through them. It's certainly your prerogative.
Not one innocent person has been harmed by a law-abiding, properly-trained gun owner in this town in as long as I can remember. Countless innocent people have been harmed by non-law abiding gun possessors in this town since I have been alive (42 years). It's your choice who you are going to support and who you are going to suppress. May God give you peace with your decision.
OK, there have been several arguments pro and con on this subject. Some have been more or less rational, others pretty stupid (i.e. ChangeHasCome21Girl). Anyway, here is my 2 cents worth.
1. Permit holders in this state account for less than 1/10 of 1 percent of any crime and to my knowledge have never been involved in a criminal shooting. That is considerably less than the average for the general population.
2. "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."
3. So what if the criminal acts first? If he/she did miss his/her first shot, wouldn't it be better if the victim could prevent a second one?
OK, I'm done. There is a lot more that could be said, but that will have to do for now.
I sympathize with your issue about having a right to be armed. I also have a right to smoke. I however do not smoke at the park unless I am all but alone and I would not object to a park-wide ban. It is all a matter of the right time and place.
-- Posted by memyselfi on Thu, Jul 30, 2009, at 2:42 AM
As a smoker, whom is well within my right to smoke, I as well do not smoke in the park, nor on the baseball fields; these just are not the places to parade around shouting about my constitutional rights. These places are for children to develop social skills and to have fun while doing it.
I am also a "baseball mom" and as I have stated, I have seen many parents go nuts out at the ball fields because their "Little Johnny" has been taken out of a game, or if the parent whom only is able to see a small view of the fields compared to the umpires, if the parent feels an ump has made a bad call, they tend to scream and yell and commence to shouting obscenities. This environment, all around does not mix well with guns.
Even the most level headed of people (EVEN ones that have went through the little one day training class) blow their tops sometimes, add a gun to this equation, this could equal the death of an innocent bystander.
lazarus didnt call anyone skinhead racists. the speakers i know personally are fine people, who i like very much... now my head. not so much hair up there. but that is god's doing.
and no one is having rights "taken away." it hasnt been legal to carry a gun in the park in the past. and i dont think the legislature seriously intended to create a new right to carry your gun to the little league fields. they just dumped the responsibility to do the right thing on local governments in order to pander to the extremists in their base.
the greenway is a different story. greenway & fishermans park are the sort of parks where gun-carry rights can be justified.
listen to bo. i have known bo for.... lets just say decades. he is as conservative as the day is long; and he has good common sense.
tullahoma-home to half the speakers- is not in bedford county.
if the speakers at that meeting are representative of the park users (90% not city residents) perhaps the park should charge a fee for non-local users. why should shelbyville's taxpayers provide a park for wartace & tullahoma?
"I have challenged folks to find a case of a 'wild west showdown' between HCP holders, or a case of someone with a HCP losing their temper and shooting someone at a park"
not at a park, but how about the hcp holder in nashville who stopped at a convenience store, saw some punk running out with a case of beer, and proceeded to empty his magazine (8 shots) at the creep? fortunately he hit no-one, not even the perp (who was about 10 feet away when the firing began). while i can understand the temptation, stealing a case of beer is not a capital offense, and those 8 stray rounds did not make anyone safer. that happened earlier this summer. i believe in the right to carry a gun, but am not impressed by an hcp.
i also believe in hunting, but the jack-a who cut my fence & left empty cigarette pack & soda bottle laying in my field shouldnt be allowed to hunt... even tho he probably has a license.
the greenway is a different story. greenway & fishermans park are the sort of parks where gun-carry rights can be justified.
-- Posted by lazarus on Thu, Jul 30, 2009, at 12:06 PM
Just curious what difference do you see between them and the other parks? I see kids fishing at the bridge all the time.
All of you Gun NUTS had better enjoy them while you can. We are going to ban your guns from our kiddie parks, then we are going to take them away. Your gun slinging days of BUSH are over. I am so glad there are some sinasable people on here like lazarus, bomelson and writeattitude who agree with me. keep up the good fight and don't let these rednecks push you arond.
-- Posted by ChangeHasCome21Girl on Thu, Jul 30, 2009, at 9:44 AM
Ok. I couldn't hold back after this remark. Lady, you have the right to voice your opinion but I don't believe every HCP holder would be considered a redneck. It is very rude and presumptuous of you to stereotype all HCP holders that way. Let me tell you a little story. I use to walk 3 miles a day. After being sexually assaulted by 2 men last year, that ended. I was terrified to leave my home. I went and took the HCP class taught by a law enforcement professional. It was extremely hard for me because I was the only woman in a class full of men, but I took it and passed. Now the law has given me the right to carry my handgun with me to protect myself from the evil, sadistic, ignorant people lurking in public places and after being violated in such a personal manner, I don't want anyone to restrict me from protecting me and mine by telling me I can't carry my gun while I walk the trail in the park should I choose to do so when the law takes effect.
"the pro gun group turned out dressed as if they were going to a meeting of the aryan nation." -- Posted by lazarus on Thu, Jul 30, 2009, at 8:23 AM
Lazarus you did say this. and you don't have to be imtemidated by the "Wyatt Earp days of gunslinging and duels" folks like writeattitude said. The Gun people are just sore losers. The enlightend people like us have to stick together.
gtagrp, ladyhistory and relicdigger:
Assuming that you are all adults, you should be ashamed. Just because you disagree with someone on a political issue in the news does not make it OK to levy personal insults, especially if you are going to hide behind fake names. You should act like adults - especally when arguing that you should be allowed to carry deadly weapons on a playground.
Okay just so I am better understood; I don't believe that just because someone totes a gun that they are terrorist and are there to blow up the sandboxes of H.V Griffin. I am a logical thinker, and I don't believe that guns should be banned, I don't want our country to go into "Marshall Law" and if someone is found carrying a weapon with a permit, they are carried to center of the town were the towns folk cast them out...so on and so on..I am saying While, YES it is a permit holders right to bear arms and protect their own, it is also my right as a red blooded American, and my responsibility as a parent, to protect myself & my children from any normal everyday Bubba with a gun permit who is having a bad day, blows his top at some young Mexican boy who wasn't paying attention and backs into bubba's dually while bubba is at the park, and bubba (who I am sure is "sweet as apple pie")blows his top and decide to solve the matter himself. Then there is my children witness to a murder, or worse, some stray bullet finds it's way into one of my babies.
Have you noticed that the people using the derrogatory/stereotypical "name calling" like "Aryan Nation, Bubba, Mexican, Redneck, young mom on PMS." are the people arguing against a person's right to protect themselves and their children.
MoMmYoF2bOyZ,
What difference do you see between allowing guns in parks and cars.
Both are just machines that rely on a on a controlled explosion to do the work they are designed to do. Neither carries with it any morality, but depends on the user to be responsible and use it correctly.
You have already posted that you have seen people use their cars recklessly in the park, since you saw the park security stop them.
Also you brought up the point of Mexicans driving in the park. Many of them here, are illegal and don't even have a valid I.D., much less a driver's license to show they have had at least rudimentary training. Yet where is the outcry to keep those vigilante drivers out of the park?
Cars kill 10x's more people yearly than do guns, yet cars don't inspire the terror among some that guns do.
If the argument is truly about the safety of children, why the hypocrisy?
Mr. Allison,
I do apologize that you "feel" as if you were being personally attacked.
It is a serious issue when we're discussing actually being physically attacked or the prevention of an attack.
You may be a very nice person.
But I don't agree with your ideas or arguement on this discussion.
It's strange that a former park security officer has put so many "thugs" in jail, when park security doesn't have arrest powers.
-- Posted by quietmike on Thu, Jul 30, 2009, at 1:10 AM
See Mike that is where you are wrong. We may not have arrest powers but we do have the authority to detain you until police arrive, which is usually about three or four min. Like I said in my previous statement i'm not against guns. There is a place for them but not in the ball fields and playgrounds of our parks.
Guys,
GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE.
PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.
PERIOD.
-- Posted by driedleaves
And you want to put guns in the hands of "People" and let them walk around kids playgrounds.......
I have challenged folks to find a case of a "wild west showdown" between HCP holders, or a case of someone with a HCP losing their temper and shooting someone at a park....No one has come up with one, but still that is the rally cry of keeping guns out of the park.-by Quitemike.
I have asked you Quitemike "OR ANYONE ELSE" to show me facts about people with-OUT carry permits shooting in "Shelbyville Tn Parks", and you have yet to show any.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/06...
http://www.sharkonline.org/?P=0000000610
http://www.dailycomet.com/article/200907...
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-dangers...
http://www.wistv.com/global/story.asp?s=...
Have you noticed that the people using the derrogatory/stereotypical "name calling" like "Aryan Nation, Bubba, Mexican, Redneck, young mom on PMS." are the people arguing against a person's right to protect themselves and their children.-- Posted by gtagrp
People using words like: clueless, genius you are, paranoid, move to another area, a true liberal are the people arguing against a person's right to protect themselves and their children in a public park.
Exactly there has to be a crime committed first before the police are called........-- Posted by gtagrp
So are you saying that a person with a carry permit is going to react to people that have not even committed a crime? Jumping the "Gun" will make you the person causing a crime.
Permit holders in this state account for less than 1/10 of 1 percent of any crime and to my knowledge have never been involved in a criminal shooting. -- Posted by TrailRider49
It is a privacy law to not identify people who have carry-permits. So even if you do see news of a crime by someone, alot of times you will not be informed that they have a CCW permit. Also "US" "Bedford County/Shelbyville Tn PARENTS" are more "Concerned" with "ACCIDENTS" of people with carry-permits carrying a "DEADLY WEAPON" around our kids playing at the park.
Their are "PLENTY ACCIDENTAL MISHAPS, MISFIRES, FORGETS, FORGOTS, SLIPPED, FELL OUT, DIDN'T REALIZE IT WAS LOADED, THOUGHT THE SAFETY WAS ON, THOUGHT IT WAS LOCKED UP, OOPS DROPPED IT, THOUGHT IT WAS A DEER, THOUGHT IT WAS A TURKEY, WAS JUST TRYING TO SHOW IT, DIDN'T REALIZE THE CHILD HAD IT, DIDN'T REALIZE I HAD IT WITH ME, I WAS ONLY GONE A SECOND type of disasters that you and the city of Shelbyville and Bedford County are asking us to allow people with "ONLY 8 HOURS OF SAFETY TRAINING" to carry a "DEADLY WEAPON around our children.
Not only will a person who has "ACCIDENTLY" discharged his weapon in a public park of innocent bystanders face criminal charges, they will also be sued for child endagerment of a child, endagerment of a deadly weapon to persons as well as the park itself and the city and county of Bedford, Shelbyville Tn. for allowing deadly weapons on the premisis!
"BAN GUNS IN SHELBYVILLE TN. PARKS"
(People with guns can and DO KILL/INJURE whether they have a carry permit or not).
Momof3&3step&1gran . . . people are allowed to carry guns in Wal-Mart and there are kids and families in there and yet I haven't heard of anyone being shot in our Wal-Mart yet. Do you walk into Wal-Mart paralyzed with fear? There really is no difference between Wal-Mart and the park because as you say, a person with a carry permit can have a bad day at Wal-Mart or the post office. By using your reasoning, then they could just start shooting anyone but have we heard of such incidents happening in Shelbyville? Um . . . . no!
I am sorry but your reasoning is flawed too!
But really, some of these children should be more afraid of the mentality of their own parents and especially some of those that comment on here. LOL!
Momof3&3step&1gran Right On!!!
People don't need guns. Especially when women like us are PMS'n. I know I sure don't. Police are everywhere all the time. And it would be different if there were any police in favor of "armed citizen". but I haven't heard of any.
I have asked you Quitemike "OR ANYONE ELSE" to show me facts about people with-OUT carry permits shooting in "Shelbyville Tn Parks", and you have yet to show any.
-- Posted by Momof3&3step&1gran
As I said in the other thread criminal with guns are not the only kinds of criminals. Would you tell a woman who was beaten with a pipe, kidnapped and raped "well at least he didn't have a gun"????
Once again you have posted links to stories that have nothing to do with the original question.
The question is has there ever been a "wild west showdown between HCP holders, or a case of a hcp holder losing their temper and shooting someone in a park as you seem so terrified will happen here.
Yes there are accidents with guns and they are terrible, but the fact remains more people are killed by car accidents, medical malpractice, or several other things than accidents with guns.
Why not compare crime statistics to your list of accidents.
-or-
How many mass shootings have occurred in "gun free zones" vs. how many have occurred in areas where guns are plentiful such as gun shops, shooting ranges, or police departments.
If guns are so terrible and dangerous as you make them out to be surely the carnage at these places, where guns are everywhere, would be beyond comprehension.
Relying solely on the police for your protection is a foolish gamble. How many students died at the Virginia tech massacre while police were outside deciding what to do?
What if the police do not respond, as they have done in the past, in this county?
quietmike~
Personally, I find it ridiculous to compare a GUN to a CAR!! A CAR is a means of transportation. A Car will get you back and forth to work to provide for your family. A CAR allows you to be able to go to the store and get food for your family. A CAR allows you/your family to go to the Dr. to get any necessary medical treatment. A CAR allows for family outings to bond. Without a CAR life is VERY difficult (not unlivable). I DO NOT see a comparison. It does NOT make sense.
People seeing a huge difference between the two is exactly my point. Both are just machines we created to help make life easier. Both just consist of metal, plastic, and some chemicals. Both require training and practice to use safely. One is responsible for many more deaths per year, but it is protected as a (near) necessity, while the other less statistically dangerous one inspires terror far out of proportion.
Strange isn't it?
I hope that you all understand one thing. There is no dought that one thing is going to happen. The thugs are going to know that no one will be armed if it is voted down. I am a 26 year vet.officer and I do drive a dully but, I am not bubba. I do have a carry permit and still a com. officer and I have more than 8 hours training. I do think that it is all blown out and it does not matter how the vote goes the thugs will still have guns and so will I. So when they (thugs) grab your purse or something else I hope that the one that comes to help you is not a rent a cop(that has no training) that is already scared and has not gotten out of the car. Lets see how many they can DETAIN with a gun stuck in their face. Who will be first to sue the city
I don't think guns are" NEEDED "in parks. but I don't think they should be banned for someone with HCP either. The police are only useful after the fact or when they see a crime in progress.ChangeHasCome21Girl,you don't understand what would take place if guns are taken from law abiding citizens. the thugs will still have guns, the police can't be everywhere at the same time. Just my thoughts and some more you need to think on. And I ain't gonna give up my guns, even if you do call me Bubba.
Momof3&3step&1gran . . . people are allowed to carry guns in Wal-Mart and there are kids and families in there and yet I haven't heard of anyone being shot in our Wal-Mart yet. Do you walk into Wal-Mart paralyzed with fear? by jaxspike.
Jaxspike, I am not debating about guns in walmart, I am discussing "My Opinion" about "My City (SHELBYVILLE Parks)" which is the city that "I do live in". I am not talking about other cities parks that I do not live in either! Because the crime rate in other cities "PARKS" are different.
And if I was so paralyzed with fear as you and some others gun-crazed people are, then I would be demanding to "Take my gun every where I go including the parks to protect me from criminals and possible gun-craze pshycos. I will not speak on other cities parks, because for one I am not a resident of that city, and I do not know the crime history of other cities parks.
I will say the one park I am concerned of that is a SHELBYVILLE PARK is the one going toward Lewisburg, where Undercover Police detectives tell child predators to meet. I do not know if "YOU", yourself is even a parent or not, none the less I do not want citizens who have only had 8 hours of safety training caring a Deadly WEAPON around my kids playing at the park.
As I said in the other thread criminal with guns are not the only kinds of criminals. Would you tell a woman who was beaten with a pipe, kidnapped and raped "well at least he didn't have a gun"????by QuiteMike
I understand not all criminals use guns, but you and many others comments have constantly been that the criminals and thugs are going to carry their guns in the parks and where ever, and by godly so am I. And where is your evidence of a woman beaten with a pipe, raped and kidnapped or any other violent criminal act that threatens the life or harm of you and your property in Shelbyville Tn. parks at?????? Let's not use just "Here say" show me the News report like I have been showing you. You and Jaxspike are the ones that are "Terrified with Fear and Paranoia" I will admit some city parks, I absolutely WILL NOT GO TO for fear of harm, but I am not talking about "OTHER" cities parks, I am talking about Shelbyville Tn parks.
And Jaxspike although Wartrace is none of my concern, because for one, I do not live their, and none of my children will be going their, but also I have not heard violent criminal acts about Wartrace parks either. LOL!