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GoogleWith little comment, the council unanimously voted to prohibit handguns from city parks and other areas of Shelbyvile.
Public Chapter No. 428 allows carry permit holders to possess a handgun "while within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, natural trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar place that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality ...."
The law option permits a city to prohibit the carrying of a firearm in these places.
Councilman Thomas Landers was the only member to make a statement, saying that he was a carry permit holder himself.
"The reason we're having to vote like this is because of the gray areas a lot of you don't know about," Lander said to the citizens attending the meeting.
"There are school children at school functions at the park, and you can not legally have a handgun," he said.
Landers added that he really did not feel the council was taking anyone's rights away from them "because we can't have them there now anyways" due to the kids in the park.
The city will now display signs in prominent locations around the parks, which will say that state law prescribes a maximum penalty of 11 months, 29 days and a fine not to exceed $2,500 for carrying a firearm in the parks.
Seven out of the nine people that spoke on the matter three weeks ago were in favor of allowing guns in the park, but nearly all of those did not live in Shelbyville.
The possession of weapons was already allowed in recreational areas for individuals in certain circumstances such as law enforcement, reserve officers in training, private police, lands designated as open for hunting, persons attending gun or knife shows, or someone delivering or picking up passengers who do not use the weapon in any manner.
According to a survey by the University of Tennessee's Municipal Technical Advisory Service, 67 percent of the cities responding are opting out of the provision while 28 percent are not opting out.
Thirty percent of 295 cities in Tennessee responded to the survey, with some municipalities reporting that the matter was not on their agendas until later in August.
Also, out of the 88 that did respond, 11 did not have parks and four that did respond have parks but left the question blank regarding whether they intend to opt out.
Within Bedford County, Bell Buckle has opted out, while a proposal to opt out of the measure died in Wartrace for lack of a motion.
Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. If you feel that a comment is offensive, please
I cannot tell you how PLEASED I am that the City Council has enough common sense and consideration for the safety of our children (and adults, too) to ban the carrying of guns in our parks. Even Mr. Landers, who has a carry permit, did not claim the right to carry a gun in a place that was not suitable and necessary to do so. Hooray for logic! I would love to see the town of Wartrace revisit this issue before it is too late to do so! Blue Dog
How can you say it was a victory, you just lost another right. I have a permit to carry a firearm but that doesnt mean I carry one all the time or to the park, but if I chose to it would be my choice not some comitee that has no ideal what goes on. I use to fish many years ago which a lot of the boat ramps were in parks, so when your wanting to go home you pull up to the ramp and load your boat in a dark area at late night or early morning you never know who is around or what they are up to. So my look on the situation is law or no law I will protect myself.
This just show you that are state law makers dont have a clue either to pass a state law then let each town decide to opt out or not, how stupid is that why even waste the time or money to pass such a worthless bill.
I can understand wanting to have a gun if you are at a boat ramp late at night or early morning. I wonder if they could be allowed during certain hours or in specific locations.
I still don't see the need for one at a ball game, on tennis courts,or at the pool,etc.
i was gonna go and get my carry permit, but thanks to the socialist council shelbyville, i will save $85, by not getting my permit and carry my gun wherever i wish. i will fit in with the others that dont have permits and carry conceled weapons all over. good going USSR(UNITED SOCIALIST of SHELBYVILLE REPUPLIC)just another reason law abiding citizens get shafted. and you NRA supporters or gun owners remember elections are best way to voice change.
Blue dog, who do you think this ban protects you from ? The people that pose a real threat to you, and society in general, do not have carry permits and do not concern themselves with this stipulation. They will carry weapons anyway, and even if all firearms were outlawed, they would still carry them.
You feel some victory and vindication because you think you have "defeated" weapons at large... but in reality, you are no safer now than you were 6 months or 10 years ago.
This gives you an issue to remember when the new city government is elected.
Some of us 'law-abiding' citizens don't see the need for a side-arm to watch a ball game.
If you have ever attended a youth sporting event and witnessed the absolutely insane behavior of the "adults", you would applaud this vote.
Yaaaay! And thank God!
Of Course, the citizen of the city did not get a chance to vote on the issue. We again are dictated to by a city council ruling. Do I feel safer? Not hardly, as a matter of fact, the disarmed citizen is far more susceptible to criminal elements than before this vote. Most people try to obey the law, therefore, criminals knowing that it is illegal for you to carry, now have the freedom to attack you by simple strongarm tactics or simple weapons assault. Muggings are familiar happenings all over the world. Can the police protect you? Get real what criminal do you know that attacks when the police are around. Law enforcement, of course, support disarming you as long as you don't disarm them. I vote for a disarmed police force, let them face what we face when camping,fishing, hunting, simply exercising or facing a hostile criminal element. Most would turn in thier badges. I believe in my 2nd amendment rights, as I have been in police/dictator states, and do not intend to be anyones puppet or victim. Guess, I can't safely go to the parks alone anymore, since the council has given more freedom to the sex offenders and other criminal elements. What a shame.
If the park is such a violent place that people feel they need to carry a gun, then we need to just go ahead and close the Rec Center and the other recreation areas.
dipperdan
Are you serious???? You still have the same rights as you did 6 months ago. The city council lis trying to keep our children safe and for that I commend them. Is there a park in Shelbyville where your scared your going to get attacked by a big bear or something (yeah makes as much sense as your whole argument). You apprently have never worked in law enforcement in Bedford County either. They do not work all the time and they do go camping and fishing and other places in regular clothes without their badge so they face the same things we do, your argument is ridiculous and you dogging our police force and thinking the should go badgeless is just tacky just because you cannot carry a gun into a park.
So it's still ok for criminals to carry, right?
Laws only apply to the law abiding. I feel "safe" already ;)
I guess now there's no where to go and hide from the wussification of America.
The rest of America is still safe for you 'law-abiding' permit carriers.
We other law-abiding Americans wanted just the park with all the kids' activities to be free from other Americans who think they are trained to protect us. If you are so worried about defending yourself, then don't go (and I wonder how many who wanted to pack in the park actually used the park anyway)
Look at the pole results, it doesn't matter what the majority wants or thinks is best. Just let there be one person that doesn't believe that jesus died on the cross for all of us and that person is above us all, and all wonder why we have the problems we do. I still have no regrets about serving my country, for I did the right thing, I'll bet these folks that don't want a legally authorized person to carry a gun in the park has never spent time serving your country, I just pray that they believe in god almighty, for if they don't believe that his son died for them also, they are doomed. Even if I had a doubt, I'd rather believe than not just in case. Don't miss that boat. And if you ever need someone with a gun due to a situation in the park or else where, you can always call me, that is if you can. THay, tommy.neal.hay@us.army.mil.
How did religion get drawn into this argument?
I don't care about the 'majority' (and that depends on who actually votes in the poll) when it comes to MY family.
My ancestors, grandparents,parents, brothers and nephews have been and are military and have served in Japan/Korea/France/Iraq and they do not use that argument for guns in a city park.
All the permit holders are not military and there are even some who are criminals who have been allowed to get a permit (I can cite the article/websites). If all the permit holders actually went through extensive training in WHEN to draw their gun, then I might not be so concerned.
I do not want anyone--permit holder or criminal--who I do not know to have a gun around my kids. Everyone jumped on a teacher for having one at school, but don't seem to be concerned when it affects them.
"I would love to see the incidence of violent crime in the parks rise..."
Seriously? You'd love to see an increase in violence, just so you'd feel justified in your opinion? At a place that's primarily used by children?
You should be ashamed of yourself.
I guess the criminals lobbying group won this one. Now criminals can feel safe carrying their weapons in parks. They will not have to worry about some law abiding citizen carrying a weapon and causing them problems if they decide to rape or rob someone. Cops can't be everywhere.
Seriously people! Because the vote didn't swing your way, now you are going to get on here and whine? Haven't you all ever heard of pick yourself up, and move on? It's not like you could carry your weapons into the park before. Why in the world do you need a gun in the park anyways? Everyone talks like H.V Griffin is full of thugs lurking around every corner, and there are massive shooting there everyday. Get real people. It's not like we live in some violent city. If you don't like the law, even though it's no different than before, then just don't go. It's that simple.
I bet you anything there will still be guns in parks if there ever was (and I'm sure there was)...and you STILL won't know anything about it. So basically nothing has changed. Boy, don't I feel safer...Good grief =/
Polls only reflect the opinions of the people who respond. I wonder how many of those who wanted guns in parks actually go to HV Griffen. If you are scared there, then I am surprised you ever went anywhere. Guns in secluded parks or parks with large secluded areas simply cannot compare to the playground or the ball park or the pool.
Guns in secluded parks or parks with large secluded areas simply cannot compare to the playground or the ball park or the pool.
-- Posted by stardust on Mon, Aug 17, 2009, at 4:51 PM
I agree. Crime rates are usually much lower in secluded areas where fewer people go. Many more people are hurt by criminals than by wild animals also.
My Poll: Are you afraid to go to HV Griffen?
I have spent many hours there at the playground, at picnics, at soccer games, at ball games, at the pool...and I have never seen anything that would make me afraid.
Also, where are the statistics that show more crimes in a park like HV Griffen?
The crimes I have knowledge of occurred in parks like Percy Priest which is much larger and were either in secluded areas or were at night.
One last thought:
How many of you actually go to HV Griffen?
I do not plan to comment anymore because I realize the character of the commenters who want to pack heat to prevent a 4 year old from attacking them. Do you just want to be able to control everyone else?
I am now afraid that I will have to obtain a permit so I can keep other permit holders away from me.
I hope everyone feels safer now that only criminals will be carrying a weapon at the park. Just because your children go to the park does not make it crime free in fact it makes it even more a crime zone because of pedophiles (they tend to hangout where children are). Maybe you can pack you some Cheetos and see how that works for you.
I go to the park, Rec. center, and baseball fields with my boys quite often. All these criminals that some of you are speaking of, I just haven't seen there!! I mean, of course there is probably the screaming toddlers' running around there, and we all know of the danger that possesses!! So, I as I stated just a few blogs down, we are not some city the size of Murfreesboro or Nashville, and we don't have a huge crime rate, there is not thugs waiting around every corner. I'm not saying that on some rare instance there would not be, but seriously if you are so paranoid, that you must carry a weapon with you at all times, and you are afraid of those screaming tots at the park, the solution is simple, get off of the cry me a river theme, and go visit the parks that allow gun to be toted there, and I will keep my babies in the gun free zone!!
Some interesting statistics to consider . . .
* Concealed carry laws have reduced murder and crime rates in the states that have enacted them. According to a comprehensive study which reviewed crime statistics in every county in the United States from 1977 to 1992, states which passed concealed carry laws reduced their rate of murder by 8.5%, rape by 5%, aggravated assault by 7% and robbery by 3%.
* Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year--or about 6,850 times a day. This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.
* If those states not having concealed carry laws had adopted such laws in 1992, then approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and over 11,000 robberies would have been avoided yearly.
* Vermont: one of the safest five states in the country. In Vermont, citizens can carry a firearm without getting permission . . . without paying a fee . . . or without going through any kind of government-imposed waiting period. And yet for ten years in a row, Vermont has remained one of the top-five, safest states in the union--having three times received the "Safest State Award."
* Washington, D.C. has, perhaps, the most restrictive gun control laws in the country, and yet it is frequently the Murder Capital of the nation. In the 25 years following the DC gun ban, its murder rate INCREASED 51 percent, even while the national rate DECREASED 36 percent.
stardust . . . I go to the park all the time and I could care less if someone can carry a gun or not because I am not paranoid in thinking that everyone with a gun is going to shoot someone.
Maybe people like you are the paranoid ones. LOL!
and I will keep my babies in the gun free zone!!
-- Posted by MoMmYoF2bOyZ on Tue, Aug 18, 2009, at 11:06 AM
Ya might wanna keep your babies out of Wal-Mart and Kroger and off the square and away from the lakes and rivers and Day care centers and McDonalds or any other Restaurant for that matter because as far as I know it is still legal for someone with a carry permit to have a gun in ALL of those places!!!
Exactly Dianatn . . . what makes Wal-Mart and McDonalds any better or safer? LOL!
DianaTn,
Again, you are whining and carrying on about your not being able to tote a gun in the park. GET OVER IT!!!
FYI: My selected daycare center does not have guns in it.
It's your stupidity for thinking it's OKAY to have small children around guns.
If you are so paranoid to think that you can't go anywhere with out a gun, may I recommend for you to become a hermit and never leave home, as this maybe the safest place for you!
I am done with this conversation!
Posted by MoMmYoF2bOyZ on Tue, Aug 18, 2009, at 1:35 PM
No Darlin it is your stupidity for thinking YOU have the right to control what other adults do..
Personally I could care less whether you are finished with conversation or not.. wasn't like you were really contributing anything to it anyway.
Well then I suggest you stop addressing me, not like you were contributing anything but whining to these posts anyway!!
When it comes to my kids and the surrounding that I put them in, YES I have control over that!!
Maybe it would be a good idea for all of you who are against people carrying a gun with a permit to wear a button stating you are against them. That way the permit holders would know not to infringe on your right to be robbed or raped.
Ya might wanna keep your babies out of Wal-Mart and Kroger and off the square and away from the lakes and rivers and Day care centers and McDonalds or any other Restaurant for that matter because as far as I know it is still legal for someone with a carry permit to have a gun in ALL of those places!!!-- Posted by Dianatn on Tue, Aug 18, 2009, at 12:50 PM
Yes, and these places still get robbed regardless that citizens with carry permits carry their guns there. Therefore, citizens carrying their guns in the park will not prevent crimes in the park, they will still happen! The majority of people that argue to take their guns into the park, do not even use these parks on a regular basis anyway. Parents that are concerned about their childrens safety that do use these parks are not for guns in the parks. The vote is done and over, NO GUNS ALLOWED! If you are that scared of H.V. Griffin Park then "Don't Go"...
This argument is not about preventing a crime or keeping the crime rate down at the park, because their aren't any here at our park. This argument is for a whole different purpose. Adults should not place their personal show boating, ego trip wants and desires before the possible risks of childrens safety.
Don't you understand!!! This has nothing to do with being afraid of the park but it has everything to do with giving up your rights. A few people whine and BINGO you have just lost another right. You say permit holders have not stopped any crimes at any of these places; tell me how many children or innocent people these egotistical, show-boating permit holders have shot at any of these places. I am not sure how you know that these permit holders do not use the park because 99.9% of the permit holders carry their guns in pockets or purses not in gun holsters ready for a shootout. For all you know, the person behind you in line at Wal-mart may have a gun in his pocket. This law will not stop those who mean to do you harm from carrying in the parks but at least now they know where they can go without being afraid of someone pulling a gun on them to stop them.. . So take heart in knowing the only true gun-free zone is in your home.
Dianatn . . . it is a waste of your time to argue with these people because their limited mentality is shown in their comments and you will not change their opinion because that would actually mean they were intelligent enough to understand the actual debate and how the statistics proves their opinion wrong.
AGAIN . . . here are some facts!!!
* Concealed carry laws have reduced murder and crime rates in the states that have enacted them. According to a comprehensive study which reviewed crime statistics in every county in the United States from 1977 to 1992, states which passed concealed carry laws reduced their rate of murder by 8.5%, rape by 5%, aggravated assault by 7% and robbery by 3%.
* Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year--or about 6,850 times a day. This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.
* If those states not having concealed carry laws had adopted such laws in 1992, then approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and over 11,000 robberies would have been avoided yearly.
* Vermont: one of the safest five states in the country. In Vermont, citizens can carry a firearm without getting permission . . . without paying a fee . . . or without going through any kind of government-imposed waiting period. And yet for ten years in a row, Vermont has remained one of the top-five, safest states in the union--having three times received the "Safest State Award."
* Washington, D.C. has, perhaps, the most restrictive gun control laws in the country, and yet it is frequently the Murder Capital of the nation. In the 25 years following the DC gun ban, its murder rate INCREASED 51 percent, even while the national rate DECREASED 36 percent.
So tell me again how allowing guns into parks increases crime? Also, just because someone has not been killed at our parks yet doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. It is that same kind of na*ve mentality that gets people killed.
Anyway, I don't care if they have guns or not because I don't own one but I find humor in the ignorance of those oppose it. To be honest, these are probably the same individuals who just drop their children off at the park and expect someone else to babysit their children so they don't have to deal with them and these children are the ones who graffiti the play area or bully other children. LOL!
-- Posted by jaxspike on Tue, Aug 18, 2009, at 12:01 PM
I am so glad that you find MY arrogance humorous, because I find your arrogance to be down right ludicrous!!
I for one am not feeble-minded enough to drop my children off at the park and expect someone else to babysit them. My children, my responsibility.
Maybe it is na*ve of me to believe that there isn't a thug waiting behind every oak tree there, but also maybe it is deranged of yourself and others to walk around expecting a showdown to happen at anytime.
I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.
MoMmYoF2bOyZ . . . I am sorry but you misunderstood because I was laughing at your IGNORANCE and not your arrogance. There is a difference between the two words.
Also, I am just the type of individual who isn't paranoid like you who believes that anyone with a gun and permit is out to get your "babies" nor am I paranoid that some thug is going to get me or I would actually own a gun but I don't. I am just saying your argument has no merit and only shows your lack of reasoning. It seems you are the only one who is paranoid because I have no fear either way. :-)
Oh please do pardon me for using the wrong word.
If you don't care either way, why are in this argument again??
It's your ignorance for not seeing the merit in a parents reasoning for keeping a firearm out of range from their child. It's your ignorance for not seeing the possibility of an accidental shooting of a child because someone (permit holder or not), has a gun in the park and it was to drop on the ground, a child could pick it up and in thinking that it is a toy shoot his or her self or another child. That's my point; there is plenty of merit in that. Unfortunately, some people in their narrow mindedness cannot see this.
I know that you have your facts, they are yours to have, I have my beliefs, and they are mine to have. No one is technically losing any rights here, it's not like you could carry a gun into the park before, that's why I pity the ones sitting here whining that you are losing rights.
Please save your pity, your sure to need it elsewhere.
Diana~
Your remark wasn't requested.
Have a great day and May God Bless You!!!!
Oh so sorry, I must have missed the memo where you were appointed blog monitor.
I am sorry; however I am going to excuse myself from the childishness of our conversation Miss DianaTn.
Like I said before, Have a great day and May God Bless You!!!
Thanks!!
It's your ignorance for not seeing the merit in a parents reasoning for keeping a firearm out of range from their child. It's your ignorance for not seeing the possibility of an accidental shooting of a child because someone (permit holder or not), has a gun in the park and it was to drop on the ground, a child could pick it up and in thinking that it is a toy shoot his or her self or another child. That's my point; there is plenty of merit in that. Unfortunately, some people in their narrow mindedness cannot see this.
-- Posted by MoMmYoF2bOyZ on Wed, Aug 19, 2009, at 12:59 PM
The same could happen in Wal-Mart where its legal to carry a gun and you don't seem too concern about that . . . I am sure you still go in there with your children and shop every week with no thought whatsoever. What is the difference?? You have not shown me any difference between the two and to be honest, more people are likely to carry a gun in Wal-Mart than a park and there is more of a chance of getting shot there. So I guess that makes you a horrible parent for endangering your children that way.
And really, I will take facts over superstitious beliefs any day of the week. :-)
So I guess that makes you a horrible parent for endangering your children that way.
-- Posted by jaxspike on Wed, Aug 19, 2009, at 3:09 PM
How dare you even think to criticize my parenting skills, with your so called level headiness in regards to the guns laws!! Who do you think you are?!? Do you have children JAXSPIKE??? Do you know how to take care of that little person and guard them with your life?? Because I do. I know what it requires to nurture my children's development and how to ensure their safety. However I for one will not stoop to your level of IGNORRANT thinking and think that it is okay to possess a gun where children PLAY!!! I for one have more common sense than that. This debate is not about Wal-Mart, Kroger's or wherever else you want to bring up. This is about the parks in Shelbyville. Stop trying to prove your point by naming all of the other places that people visit on a daily basis.
Oh and since you are so gung ho about FACTS, well I got on for ya!!
FACT: Guns were PROHIBITED from the park before this law was passed, and they will continue to be PROHIBITED from the park now.
Enjoy that FACT!
Stop whining about what has been done!! What's done is done and who are you to try and change it!!
Thanks!!!!
Well you presume to judge that people who have a carry permit will shoot your precious children in a park, so people can presume to judge your parenting skills. Maybe they will pass a law that states that people of lesser intelligence are not allowed to breed. That is a law that would do wonders for this country!
Ignorance is bliss . . . too bad I aspire for something greater! Have a wonderful day!
Jaxspike~
Yeah, my boys are precious to me! Life is precious! They are my life! Too bad you are of a higher intelligence to take note of that! As far as my intelligence level, it surpasses that of most my young age! That would be your ignorance for not seeing the "merit" in my statements.
AGAIN, why are you in this discussion??
You haven't a permit to carry, why should you care? You would probably be someone older who likes nothing more than to sit and argue about items of concern to others.
You have a wonderful day yourself, that is if you know how to find the door, open it, step outside, take a breath, and see the beauty in life.
Wow Jaxspike and Dianatn, are you two still stalking these message boards?!?! LOL! Do you two work? I haven't dropped into my old hometown paper for at least 6 months, and lo and behold today I do and the first article I read has you two acting like the bullies you always have been, with your regurgitated and skewed statistics plucked directly off of Bill O'Reilly and the NRA's (and any other right wing zealot)websites. You two really should get another hobby! On second thought, don't. I look forward to dropping in again in 6 months to see if you're still at it. Hilarious!
Ex-Shelbyvillian
Com'on back any ole time. But as far as me being a bully you have your wires crossed unless you think somebody who actually can think for themself and can use their own brain instead of depending on some one to tell them what to think is a bully. If that is the case then yea by all means I am a bully.
How cute . . . Ex-Shelbyvillian assumes I watch Bill O'Reilly when I hate the man and I have no affiliation or desire to be a part of NRA. I am a moderate who leans to left some so evidently Ex-Shelbyvillian hasnt read that much from me. Sorry if I think for myself . . . at least I live here and have a reason to comment.
I have lived in shelbyville most of my life.my children now are growing up here. h.v. griffen park has never been a dangerous place. there has never been a need for guns there. if you read the blotter in the paper more crime happens in the trailor parks..apartment complexes...and stores..
my husband served in the army for 11 years..3 deployments 2 of which were to iraq.i understand the need for guns and i understand the need to protect yourself and your families..but do we really need to carry a gun in hv griffen? im not going to lower myself to argue with any of you however i do have my opinion.i do not want my children in a park and have to worry about someone discharging their gun by accident or thinking they have the right to shot someone and my children get caught in the crossfire of trigger happy people.my children have the right to play and grow without the fear of being shot. all to often innocent people and children get caught in the crossfire.my husband has a pemit to carry.. and he does. HOWEVER our children are never within reach of the gun or are ever in danger of being harmed.everyone has a right to carry and protect theirself.but use common sense.