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Bedford Ramblings
Steve Mills

OK Mr. Obama, & members of Congress. You've made your point.

Posted Friday, October 11, 2013, at 10:38 AM
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  • It's amazing we have not seen lawyers emerge yet...maybe even an impeach congress movement happening....If they don't get it resolved soon..I think we might start to see our citizens on the move....Isreal has a law that if a budget is not done on time, it automatically calls for elections....we need such a law!...I personally have never seen such a disrespect for the position of president of the united states...what have we really become...hate mongers?...there has not been enough time to even see if the affordable care act will work or needs to be modified...I think it's meant so everyone has health care....those who are complaining either have good coverage and are jealous of others needs or just simply are haters of the man who holds the cards....can't we just get along?...we all will get up tomorrow morning and breath the same air and see the same sun.

    -- Posted by chefgrape on Fri, Oct 11, 2013, at 9:45 AM
  • I like that idea of no budget triggers an election. Working through those details would be a bugger on our large scale, but I like it.

    What I have heard from all health professional so far is not good regarding the new healthcare program but the posturing on both sides is sooo confusing, that I personally can not form a solid opinion.

    -- Posted by stevemills on Fri, Oct 11, 2013, at 10:43 AM
  • I am in the health profession and every day I see the need for everyone to have affordable health care.Every one I talk to have been able to keep their insurance where employed or deductibles have been lowered.Even republicans have said the opposite.They are ready to ruin America over their hatred of Obama.And then have the nerve to go on TV and complain about parks closed.They will not bring it to a vote because they are afraid that some of their own will vote to open the government.The tea party has split the republican party and it will affect the next elections,with an approval rating of 12%I know republicans that are signing up for ACA.A lot of them can retire before 65 and afford insurance.Americans are not stupid and see what is happening

    -- Posted by lets be real on Fri, Oct 11, 2013, at 11:18 AM
  • I hope others get involved in this discussion.

    I know some small businesses who are dropping their employee insurance plan and it is all being put back on the employee. Those employees are a bit scared.

    On a personal note, my company could probably drop my insurance and I am not sure where that will leave us. MY deductibles are not going down, out-of pocket expenses going up and my bi-monthly payments have gone up, so I do not see a positive.

    Some satellite offices of larger medical groups have closed here in Bedford County and those folks tell me that they are getting ahead of the changes that will cost them excessive fees for keeping the offices open. Again, that does not sound too positive.

    I do not "hate" our president, although I did not support him, so I am not sure that all opposition is because of hate or politics.

    This shutdown appears to be two sided, with stubbornness and posturing being the common denominator. Blame seems to be on both sides of the party line.

    The only benefit I see right now is that our daughter can stay on our insurance a little longer. It is going to cost me the same for my wife and I, so I have no issues with keeping her on it as well.

    -- Posted by stevemills on Fri, Oct 11, 2013, at 11:38 AM
  • I have to agree with Steve . . . my insurance rate has definitely not decreased due to the Affordable Care Act and I am not hearing anything positive about it through the healthcare field. But hey, someone has to take up the slack for all those people who claim they cant afford insurance but yet have the latest model of the iPhone and the costly plans that go with them.

    -- Posted by jaxspike on Fri, Oct 11, 2013, at 1:07 PM
  • How can everyone having insurance cause excessive fees to keep any ones office open?We deserve insurance just like everyone in congress gets.I am sick of hearing people say that the American people don't want affordable health care.The people decided what they wanted when Obama won the election by over 5 million votes.This is one of the things he ran on.Lots of people are benefiting from some things already from ACA such as keeping kids on plan till 26, pre-existing conditions,women not having to pay higher premiums than men etc.From what I here and read these same things were said about medicare when it began.All these that are against the ACA will be standing in line when it is time to get medicare.Republicans are afraid that people will like the ACA once they get past all the lies and scare tactics and listening to fox news.My friend works at a large plant in Tullahma,and they not only get to keep insurance but the deductible was lowered a lot.Bussiness that are making people part time to keep from paying insurance are doing it out of greed.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Fri, Oct 11, 2013, at 9:36 PM
  • Our Republican governor continues to stand in the way to keep even the poorest in Tenn from getting insurance by not expanding Medicaid.This is what is going to hurt rural hospitals.I bet he is getting government insurance.All the family values governers of the poorest states in the south should be ashamed of themselves.And all because they hate Obama.There is going to be a big surprise come next election

    -- Posted by lets be real on Fri, Oct 11, 2013, at 9:56 PM
  • My vote will reflect my attitude about the sorry jobs that they all have done. very little results that are positive for the people who elected them, quite different (self serving) for themselves. Once they are elected, they proceed to turn around and start running again for re-election rather than doing their job. Their promises to us are seldom kept and often broken. In my 73 years I have been often disappointed by both parties. Even those with good intentions when elected change rapidly once elected. Don't make promises to get elected and then break them. That will not get you reelected.

    -- Posted by cherokee2 on Sat, Oct 12, 2013, at 5:23 AM
  • Working inside the Washington "Belt-line" is a rude awakening for many who think they are going to Washington to force change. You are right, most change quickly.

    I believe any company over 50 employees HAS to provide insurance. I am directly in touch with our company owner who shares with me what the insurance companies are requiring and their fees. In all cases, the overall expense went up, or the coverage went down.

    To lower deductibles, something else had to be traded, the company is paying more, or they have changed to a medical savings account, or.....

    From what I can tell, the "excessive insurance fees" and high medical charges are from non-payers and liability lawyers, not Republicans. Nor were they a result of anyone hating someone else.

    I am not sure that I have heard that Americans don't want affordable healthcare. I will have to listen closer.

    -- Posted by stevemills on Sat, Oct 12, 2013, at 8:28 AM
  • Where I work our insurance has not changed,we were given the option to go out and look for lower plans if desired.It is called affordable health care not free health care.And ones with iPhones will have to pay something also.I heard a republican on TV say that the poorest will not be covered.That is because the republican governers of the poorest southern states refuse to expand Medicaid.One even said that ones on Medicaid gets the worst care.That is better than having no insurance at all and going to the emergency room.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Sat, Oct 12, 2013, at 10:37 AM
  • And lets not forget Obamacare is based on Mitt Romneys plan,which is working well in Mass.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Sat, Oct 12, 2013, at 11:06 AM
  • Compromise is a two way street. I think everyone can agree that there needs to be some REAL change in Washington. What we have seen over the last five is MORE of the same, even worse, than we have had. The last 5 yrs there has been no budget, and $7 trillion added to the debt. That needs to change.

    Why the rush to fund Obamacare immediately? Why be so uncompromising on this single issue? If it is a good law/program, won't it still be good in a yr? The exchanges have barely opened (less than two weeks) and the people are being herded like cattle into a pen. Only the sticks being used to herd us are small things like websites being taken down, parks being closed, monuments being fenced, etc... all designed to inflict pain like a cattle prod. It will take time for the people to go through the exchanges and see if it is a good deal or not. So far, I haven't heard anything good from the people I know who have filed. Give us time!! Whats the rush with funding Obamacare?

    -- Posted by Liveforlight on Sat, Oct 12, 2013, at 7:44 PM
  • Medicaid is filtered through the state to Tncare,which has given the ball to several different groups like Amerigroup and Americare etc...they sub out all levels through other companies, one that handles equipment, and one who handles pharmacy, and then another for home health nursing, and yet another for customer service script reading, and a group that expedites issues...if you have an issue or need equipment or medicine you first have to start with your general practice doctor...if then they need to refer you out (like most do for everything except the common cold or belly ache)...it takes thirty days for approvals ...sometimes up to 10 days just to get a prescription that needs a pre-authorization form. The doctor, even when they write it, they have to submit it to the pharmacy group, and that's after you try to get it filled, and the pharmacist starts the system by faxing the doctor, who then has to fax the forms to the pharmacy group to get an answer to send back to the pharmacy that you use....so many hands.....so confusing...you can die before you get the help you need...if you call the Medicaid office...they tell you to call Tncare or they can file a complaint that takes 90 days, while Tncare will tell you the same..it's all a nightmare...especially if your indigent or uneducated, and then your best bet is the emergency room, which can't do squat without approval unless its life threatening, and just refers you back into the vicious cycle...I am in hopes that eventually, the nightmares will end with those who are sick to the point that they can't work or fend for themselves...at least our president started the ball rolling...yet, those who are causing problems in congress have great coverage and make enough money that the only thing they worry about is a good dinner and cocktails, and getting re-elected....one day, there will be a big price to pay, for being self absorbed to the point that they have let everyone's hands in the money pile, instead of taking the time and doing it right the first time....no wonder why it cost so much to have a doctor fix you...they have them scared to the point they try to pass it to someone else....what's wrong with people, it's like no one wants to get their hands dirty anymore, or just wants to complain about others dealing with it...I for one was never raised like that!....we hired them....we should fire them!

    -- Posted by chefgrape on Sat, Oct 12, 2013, at 9:06 PM
  • Wow chefgraepe, I got a headache just trying to follow the trail. Glad that I already have some aspirin or it would take me a few weeks to get anything stronger.

    That IS a mess. DO you think the new plan will improve that?

    -- Posted by stevemills on Sun, Oct 13, 2013, at 8:14 AM
  • Not really, those on Medicaid will remain so, if anything, those that have it will pay a little more..prescription co-pays went up Oct. 1st...possibly, in the long run, and after it has been tweeked, it might get streamlined....that would help tremendously...Tn refused funds from the federal government to expand it...I do agree with republicans on that, simply because, instead of expanding the streamlining would release enough funds t help those in need a little more....those that have to receive snap benefits (food stamps) do not have enough with the price of food ,to get any nutrition hardly at all...they have to stretch what they receive with major processed cheaper foods which in turn causes health problems and obesity, diabetes etc....and if receiving them, money should be set to educate one on nutrition...all I see is just a vicious cycle without wisdom.

    -- Posted by chefgrape on Sun, Oct 13, 2013, at 10:27 AM
  • To Liveforlight you must have good insurance.How can you ask what is the rush for all americans to have insurance.It will cause someone to get life saving medicine,simple test like mammagrams,pap smears,xrays ect.I work in the health profession and I have seen people with strokes because they couldn't afford blood pressure medicine.I saw a 50 year old woman die from ovarian cancer because she could not afford a pap smear for 3 years after losing her job.These people cost tax payers more in the end.Any one that wants to deny these people insurance and cause more deaths by waiting another year is heartless and selfish.None of the parks would be shut down if the republicans didn't tie Obamacare to the bill.Now Sara Palin and Ted Cruz are on fox news standing in front of parks complaining about the shutdown.What hipocrites they are.Americans can see through this.The Bible speaks about how you treat the poor.Ted Cruz,fox news and the tea party has ruined the republican party.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Sun, Oct 13, 2013, at 7:38 PM
  • I truly don't believe anyone in our country wants to deny anyone else healthcare. What the big argument is over is PAYMENT SOURCE and who should pay for the healthcare of the needy in this country. I am going to step out on a big limb and state that it is my belief that the FEDERAL government should get out of healthcare totally and let the states deal with how they want to take care of the needy in their states. Churches and other religious institutes also need to become more involved in the care of the sick. In my years of working in the healthcare industry I have never seen anyone turned away from needed medical attention, they possibly might not receive Cadillac care, but they do receive care. I will admit that I do get tired of certain segments of our population taking advantage of and abusing the current healthcare system, but no one should be denied NEEDED healthcare. A cold does not need to be treated in the emergency room, nor does a stubbed toe, they truly can not treat either of those situations. An Emergency room is called such since it is there to treat Emergencies, i.e. chest pain, shortness of breath, abdominal pain, broken limbs. It has been mentioned that people can not afford their medications, most pharmacies have many medications that are only $4.00/month or $10.00/three months, please tell me who in this country can not afford that. Pharmaceutical companies often provide for ways for patients to receive higher end medications for either free or a very low copay. Here in middle Tennessee also have Dispensary of Hope where people with a certain income level can receive medications for free. I would be curious to know those persons lifestyle to see why they can not afford those cost. Chefgrape makes an important point that many services need to be streamlined, not only in Medicare/Medicaid, but for private insurance also. It does get very frustrating having to wait 2 or more weeks for approval on medications or supplies. I personally once threatened to show up at my insurance companies office throw up on someone's desk to prove I needed the anti-nausea medication that had been prescribed for me and it was a generic!

    Are there changes that need to be made in this countries healthcare system? Yes

    Should or does the FEDERAL government have to fix every problem this county faces? NO

    -- Posted by Sharon22 on Mon, Oct 14, 2013, at 12:33 AM
  • Let be real, my point is that there has never been a government mandated insurance program and the immediate implementation of it without the willful consent of the people is tyranical. The democrats passed this law in the middle of the night admitting they had to pass it to see what is in it. The people should have the chance to look before they leap. There has not been sufficient time to do that. the exchanges have only been open for less than a month!!

    Your assertion that the lack of insurance equates to death is asinine. As you said the poor, and even illegal aliens, ARE getting medical treatment already. Whether or not you are correct about the cost to tax payers being more than Obamcare, I highly doubt. But we haven't had time to see yet.

    You are correct that Christians should treat the poor and take care of them. Though this country is constantly and consistently turning it's back on God through the promotion of Homosexuality and killing of babies, that does not relieve the Church of it's responsibilities.

    I also agree that the Republicans should not have tied Obamacare to the bill. It should be forced to stand alone solely with the educated approval of the people who will be paying the bill for it.

    It would seem your hatred for the GOP, or your love for Obama, clouds your ability to step back from the issue and evaluate it on it's on merit, to look before you leap in other words. Do you also agree that the Democrats should have a budget? Do you agree they shouldn't add $7 trillion to the debt in only 5 yrs?

    If they mismanage these basic tenets of government, why would you trust them completely with a program of this magnitude?

    -- Posted by Liveforlight on Mon, Oct 14, 2013, at 6:20 AM
  • We as a country should help those who cannot help themselves, and many cannot afford health insurance..the Affordable Care Act is just that, to make it affordable, and stop gender discrimination, lower premiums, and stop the greed of big business insurance companies and the 400.00 aspirins the hospitals seem to be serving...the federal government should regulate it because the states are not that bipartisan for one, and another reason is because it will give equal benefits to everyone instead of state mandated options.

    Only some churches, mostly individuals who feel called, involve themselves in helping others. Fighting homosexuality, is for those who hate, instead of those who love and understand the convictions and struggles of others. There are many, abstaining, Christian gay folks who still feel the love of the same God, just like a repented murderer. If I judge them or the motives and rhetoric of those accusing them of sin, I become the hater, and sin myself because I would be judging the person, not weighing the effects of sin on a heart, with an understanding. Yet, a lot of times I have not been able to understand the convictions of others, whether they are thieves, murderers, slanders or, sexually deviant from another's norm, I can not judge. To be a Christian, I have to let God be the judge and love everyone. I have talked with friends. and others at times, that were sexually abused while young or experimented at a young age with the same sex and ended up gay, only to be alienated from others and even told they were not welcome in church, when they really needed some old fashion love and communication...so if it saves one teen or adult from suicide or heals a broken heart through friendship I will give some understanding...that does not mean I have to participate or discriminate....I have my own convictions, and they are far from perfect! It is far better to love others unconditionally, and have the right perspective, then to be torn away from God and the church because one feels judged and condemned for something from those who have a log in their own eye, or have a haughty spirit about them to start with. At times, I have had to repent for simply thinking I'm better because I don't do what others like or do, and that conviction can weigh very heavy!

    -- Posted by chefgrape on Mon, Oct 14, 2013, at 2:03 PM
  • The Federal government is more bipartisan than the states? I don't think so, might I remind you of our current shutdown caused by the nitwits (both sides) that we have currently in D.C.

    If someone living in a certain states doesn't like that states provided healthcare, they can move to one they feel will fit there situation better.

    Healthcare will never be equal in this country, or any other for that matter, because those folks that earn lots more money than me will be able to just go out and buy what they need or want. It happens now and will continue to happen no matter what the states or the federal government puts into place. We currently have people and insurance companies going for healthcare outside this country for elective surgeries such as joint replacements. Its not a large amount of our population, but it is happening.

    Medicare, our federal program already in place, does not even pay equally throughout the country. Hospitals and Doctors are paid depending on what part of the country they are in, even city v. rural comes into play. If we are going to talk fair, lets fix this program first.

    -- Posted by Sharon22 on Mon, Oct 14, 2013, at 4:30 PM
  • Chefgrape, while I can certainly agree with some of what you are saying, I would like to point out a few things.

    The name "Affordable Care Act" does not mean it is affordable. I can call a Cow Pie a Delicious Organic Pastry but would you take a bite before examining it?

    My insurance premiums and deductibles went up because of the "Affordable CA". Additionally, I was paying into a Flex Spending Account(FSA) to pay for uncovered expenses, deductibles, medicine, etc. The amount I can put into that has been reduced which will mean my tax burden will increase. From my perspective, this hardly justifies the name "affordable" unless I add in "barely".

    For another perspective;

    My brother in law just applied for insurance through the exchange. He applied for the "Bronze" plan. He and his wife qualified for a subsidy. he told me how much his premium was going to be but I forgot the exact figure. He said they would not pay for his wifes medication (diabetic). He said his yearly deductible is going to be $10,000. The subsidy he gets, comes in the form of a tax credit. This means they will have to pay the premiums out of pocket first and then receive reimbursement through his tax return at the end of the year. I asked to him if he considered it "Affordable" and he said "not to me it's not".

    We all need to hear from many, many, more examples before we can rightly judge whether this is a good program regardless of its name.

    Regarding homosexuality. I agree Christians should love them in spite of their sin. There are a couple of key words in both our posts that should be pointed out;

    My post;

    "You are correct that Christians should treat the poor and take care of them. Though this country is constantly and consistently turning it's back on God through the promotion of Homosexuality and killing of babies, that does not relieve the Church of it's responsibilities."

    - Posted by Liveforlight on Mon, Oct 14, 2013, at 6:20 AM

    The key words in my post are "the promotion of". Any Church or organization that PROMOTES sin is acting contrary to Biblical teaching. Not that you shouldn't love the sinner, it is the sin that is the problem.

    Your post;

    "There are many, abstaining, Christian gay folks who still feel the love of the same God, just like a repented murderer."

    -- Posted by chefgrape on Mon, Oct 14, 2013, at 2:03 PM

    The key word here is "repented". We have all sinned and we all wanted to be loved.

    People often misuse the qoute "Judge not lest yea be judged" as part of the scripture is used. The Bible also says "Judge the tree by the fruit it bares". Now, why would it tell you not to judge, and then tell you TO judge?

    The point Jesus was making was not be hypocritical in your judgement. We have all sinned and we cannot judge whether a person is saved or not. But, we can certainly judge the fruit/sin that is on the tree, but first we need to examine ourselves. If a person is feeling condemned because of their sin, that is a good sign. It means the Holy Spirit is dealing with them and they have the opportunity to repent.

    Do you lock your doors? The unrepentant thief would certainly like to know your address if you don't. In this way you could "promote" theft. I suppose you could translate that as love also but at the end of the day the thief is still an unrepentant sinner.

    -- Posted by Liveforlight on Mon, Oct 14, 2013, at 5:09 PM
  • That sure opened some thought...I am still not to sure the government is promoting homosexuality or killing babies unless they are allowing some higher principality to posses them as a group in a spiritual warfare scenerio...they did however have to deal with it, individually, in some fashion when it arose, in each of their districts, to get re-elected and apparently it is popular because there sure is a lot of both. A single woman friend of mine at age 45 with an income of 42,000 a year was paying over $320.00 a month for her BlueCross(I think), and looking at the silver plan with the ACA, with subsidies and all, it would be around $100.00...I was actually amazed at that when told, and compared it to the price of my cable bill. I can't vouch for what others are dealing with having the income or dependents that they may have...I do think with everything else it will all work itself out, it just needs time. It would be grand to not worry about dying because you can't afford to live.

    I do, and vary much so, believe in a higher power, and one with love, however I also think that any version or translation of the Bible is just that, a version or translation. As many translations go, some of it was re-written to suit the ruling party at the time King James translated it, because he wanted it to conform to the Episcapal structure and ordained clergy of the time, and that was just back in the early 1600's. Before that, the translations were all over including hand written on staffs, with what they could find to scratch them with. Translations without giving a full history, which I am sure you know, was also from many languages with words for this love word and others, having many different meanings and feelings behind it. I think a lot was lost in translation, including words, possibly inspired from God, and books, scrolls etc. I even wonder if centuries from now, if it will be translated to include the acceptance of eunuchs....we all feel the way we feel, and have our compassion in many different directions...There are words of Jesus in red in the newer translations, but was he taking about trees, or people when expressing that logic. I have found a lot of wisdom and common sense, reading in biblical writings, especially the wisdom of Solomon, but placing some of it to modern day a little logic is lost for me. We might even be experiencing the great falling away and the ushering in of an antichrist according to end time reading, will we need the ACA then or will miracles and healing happen ...I know one thing for sure though, if congress don't get their act together real quick we might see a little hell unleashed before election time.

    -- Posted by chefgrape on Mon, Oct 14, 2013, at 7:09 PM
  • We are definitely experiencing a falling away.

    One form of the promotion of Homosexuality I am speaking of is same sex marriage. Promotion of killing babies is done through organizations such as Planned Parenthood. Obama also started funding abortions in Mexico at the very beginning of his administration.

    I serve a Church outreach ministry. We help everyone who comes to us for help. However, we also visit them in their home, pray with, and for them, and try to help them manage whatever problems they have with whatever resources they have. You would be surprised how quickly the problems are solved when you get right to the root of the problem. However, some people are not interested in solving their problems because their problem comes from a bottle or other comparable means. They just want us to pay their light bill or buy them groceries. A loving, but firm, visit to them either helps them solve their problem or helps you move on to the ones who can be helped. We constantly struggle with those who just want a handout. The only way to know is to get to know them and that takes time.

    You are right there are many translations of the Bible. But, I believe if you seek God, the particular translation you use is not very important. The relationship you have is between you and God not between you and your Bible. God will reveal the truth to you if humble yourself and pray for it.

    The entire discourse you are referencing is found in Matt: Chapter 7 Be sure to read at least the entire chapter.

    Here is a link to Dave Ramsey with simple math on the Obamacare issue. Not emotional rhetoric just common sense and math.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFMTVO7lpZY

    Unfortunately, many people, especailly those in government, don't seem to be able to separate their particular political party affiliation and emotions from the reality of common sense and math. Either that, or there is something much more sinister at work here. Either way, it is going to take time to "see what is in it".

    -- Posted by Liveforlight on Mon, Oct 14, 2013, at 8:00 PM
  • Folks had better remember everyone of Tenn representatives that voted to keep the government shut down on election day.The Koch brothers Tea Party that funded the shut down was ready to destroy America.Where were they when the debt ceiling was raised 7 times in 8 years under the Bush Administration.Ted Cruz is a nut and even the smarter republicans can see that.These representatives,Roe,Duncan,Fleischmann,DesJarlais,Black,Blackburn and Fincher that voted Nay to open the government need to be voted out next election.They won by using scare tactics on uneducated people.The South needs to wise up not rise up.The shutdown caused economic damage to America,that is what is un-American.They did not care because they still got paid and get free insurance off our backs.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Fri, Oct 18, 2013, at 12:16 PM
  • While I surely do not know what is in everyone's mind, I doubt seriously that any group was trying to destroy America. Change it, get people's attention, make a point, yes, but destroy?

    That could be said about a number of things done from both sides of the aisle. It just depends how you interpret destroy. Disrupt the status quo, change the power structure, change the party system to a three party, etc.

    In my mind destroying America would mean the government is in such chaos that it cannot govern and thus not be able to protect it citizens. I do not think that was the intent.

    -- Posted by stevemills on Sat, Oct 19, 2013, at 6:18 AM
  • That is what the Tea Party is trying to do.When a small group within the republican party try to run the whole country with their radical ideas,and wanting to keep the shutdown going that is not protecting the citizens.Thanks to the republicans in the House that came to their senses and out voted these heartless congressman who are willing to do the same thing again in a few months.I hope a three party system does emerge and we will see who benefits most from that.The republican party is already in chaos.

    -- Posted by lets be real on Sat, Oct 19, 2013, at 10:34 AM
  • Live you said "The democrats passed this law in the middle of the night" That is simply not true!! --- here are some facts for you...It was passed 10/8/09 the house voted 96% yes 0% no and 4% no vote,this was at 12:15 pm JUST AFTER NOON ----- 12/24/09the senate was 60% yes , 39% no and 1% no vote.7:05 AM BREAKFAST TIME....https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr3590..... your mimicking of the republican manipulation is a good example of why they are loosing all respect from this country. The bill WAS NOT passed by democrats in the middle of the noght - it was a bi-partisan vote to say otherwise is not only wrong it is a blatant LIE being spewed by hate mongers trying to manipulate people they know are either to lazy to check the facts or are full of enough hate not to care.

    Then you said " Though this country is constantly and consistently turning it's back on God through the promotion of Homosexuality and killing of babies" Do you think that the lies and manipulation, the demonizing of the poor,intentionally accusing people of things they have not done ( false witness), or any of the other such trashy tactics being used on the right to undermine the ACA are turning your back on God? God said he will judge, and for us "do not judge lest you be judged" ?

    YOu also say"should be forced to stand alone solely with the educated approval of the people who will be paying the bill for it. " given the example above, the lies that the GOP are spreading - is that the education your hoping to have provided for the people? SInce your spreading the lies I would think that is the case.

    YEt another lie you spread is " Do you agree they shouldn't add $7 trillion to the debt in only 5 yrs? " well here are the actual figures you will see where he is far from the worst President as far as increasing the debt. Bush was 101% increase to Obama's 44%........

    President Barack Obama: Added $5.081 trillion, a 44% increase to the $11.657 trillion debt level attributable to Bush's at the end of his last budget, FY 2009.

    FY 2013 - $672 billion.

    FY 2012 - $1.276 trillion.

    FY 2011 - $1.229 trillion.

    FY 2010 - $1.652 trillion.

    FY 2009 - $253 billion. (Congress passed the Economic Stimulus Act, which spent $253 billion in FY 2009. This rare occurrence should be added to President Obama's contribution to the debt.)

    President George W. Bush: Added $5.849 trillion, a 101% increase to the $5.8 trillion debt level at the end of Clinton's last budget, FY 2001.

    President Bill Clinton: Added $1.396 trillion, a 32% increase to the $4.4 trillion debt level at the end of Bush's last budget, FY 1993

    President George H.W. Bush: Added $1.554 trillion, a 54% increase to the $2.8 trillion debt level at the end of Reagan's last budget, FY 1989

    President Ronald Reagan: Added $1.86 trillion, 186% increase to the $998 billion debt level at the end of Carter's last budget, FY 1981

    President Jimmy Carter: Added $299 billion, a 43% increase to the $699 billion debt level at the end of Ford's last budget, FY 1977

    http://useconomy.about.com/od/usdebtanddeficit/p/US-Debt-by-President.htm

    The republican party has become the party of lies, greed and terrorist tactics. The have sunk so low as to literally take food off the table ( wick during the shut down and cuts to the snap program) yet they panic to open parks. And you question how our country is backing God. The way I see it the republicans are keeping Satan very happy. They wave the Bible but as the Bible says we are know by our actions, and the actions of the GOP are far from the teachings of Christ. They have become the disgrace of America.

    -- Posted by jstus on Sun, Oct 20, 2013, at 1:09 AM
  • jstsu

    Ok so, 7 AM was when the actaul vote was taken technically. Was it not an all night debate?

    Do you somehow construe that I approve of the debt increase by any president from my posts? No, I do not!!

    Judgements should not be hypocritical, but the tree IS judged by the fruit. Doesn't matter if the trees are DEM or GOP, both are producing rotten fruit. One does not justify the other the debt is being increased period. Is that ok just because your favorite party is the one now doing it?

    The educated approval I speak of is real life experience from people who have been going through the exchanges, open enrollments at work, and seeing the effects on their business. Not the typically liberally biased media we see everyday nor the GOP talking points. REAL LIFE!!

    You obviously spent a lot of time finding data and statistics to support your point(s) of view. Who is to say those numbers are true? Are the Dems the ministry of truth and the GOP of lies? The Debt was around $10T at the end of Bush it is now near $17T! Ok those numbers are not exact. What number can you say is??? Does that make it OK or less true that there is a problem?

    Greed is a universal flaw all humans have to varying degrees. You don't have to be rich to be greedy. If you are eager to take what you have not earned, then you are greedy. Unless, of course, you are willing to humble yourself and ask for help that is not being extracted from someone else at the p[oint of a gun.

    -- Posted by Liveforlight on Mon, Oct 21, 2013, at 11:52 AM
  • JSTUS

    I admit that we all use statistics that we have heard or read to support our particular point of view just as you have with the percentages you posted. We have to rely on info from someone else So, who can you trust?

    I noticed you made no comment to my question about the budget, just oversight, error of omission, or willful neglect?

    Below is a link to the debt data I used; if you put in Jan 1 2008. the total debt was $9,229,172,659,218.31

    Enter todays date 21Oct2013 you get 17,075,590,107,963.57. As you can see that is roughly $7T actual more.

    http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/search?startMonth=10&startDay=21&startYear...

    As the amount of debt grows the percentage added by each party will be less even though the dollar amount is much more.

    -- Posted by Liveforlight on Mon, Oct 21, 2013, at 12:59 PM
  • jstus I have just now had time to review your sources. While I am not perfect by any means, I do take it seriously when accused of spreading lies. This is something I will never knowingly do.

    Now, the very first reference you gave to this link.

    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr3590 Shows the truth of what I said about being passed in the middle of the night. Additionally, there was not a single Republican vote in either house.

    If you had taken the time to read the info.instead of just grabbing what supports your point of view. You would have seen that the House vote you referenced above on 10/8/09 was a procedure to "suspend the rules". That was passed with Bi-partisan support.

    This vote put the Bill into the senate where it passed without any GOP votes at 7.05 AM on Christmas Eve.

    The bill then went BACK to the house for final passage on Mar 21 2010 where it passed at 10:49PM. (MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT) WITHOUT ANY GOP votes. The only thing Bi-partisan was the opposition to the bill as 34 Democrats voted against it.

    All of the above info was found on the link you supplied. For that, I thank you. There is good info. there (I think??)

    Here is a nice chart explaining the debt. http://www.ijreview.com/2013/10/88091-stunning-chart-wake-people-americas-debt/

    Concerning judgement and the Bible read Matthew Chapter seven and tell me how you recognize the wolf in sheep' clothing without judging.

    I see both parties as presenting false information and half truths to further a power grabbing agenda that is very bi-partisan. Although they would lead us to believe otherwise.

    I could go on de-bunking the rest of your rant but it will most likely be a waste of my time.

    -- Posted by Liveforlight on Mon, Oct 21, 2013, at 6:59 PM
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