There is change, so who or what is causing it?
Sorry Al, you're excluded. :-) Well, not really but.......
Here are posts from a previous one that "drifted"
While this is an interesting discussion, I don't know why we are wasting our time talking about terrorism when we could be tackling the much more serious problem of global warming, I mean cooling I mean climate change (at least according to b o)
-- Posted by fair share on Mon, Nov 30, 2015, at 10:02 PM
According to Obama and a 150 other heads of state,pretty impressive.
-- Posted by lets be real on Tue, Dec 1, 2015, at 10:59 AM
Yes, and according to Chicken Little the Unicorns went extinct because the sky fell and hit them all in the head.
-- Posted by fair share on Tue, Dec 1, 2015, at 1:00 PM
Not much more amusing than the climate change deniers. Events have left them in the dust. It is no longer a point of contention among educated people. It is no longer a discussion of what might happen. It is here, and the only points to be considered are whether we can reduce the pace, and how to deal with it.
The powerful weapon of ridiculing things you do not like or cannot understand will have no effect... You might as well make fun of people who believe the earth goes around the sun. After all, we can clearly see that the sun is the one that is moving, every day.
-- Posted by lazarus on Tue, Dec 1, 2015, at 5:39 PM
Studies show that a quarter of Americans actually do think that the sun revolves around the earth.
It's no wonder some people can't grasp the facts of climate change either.
-- Posted by Rocket Valentine on Tue, Dec 1, 2015, at 7:23 PM
Studies can show most anything for any narrative that anyone chooses to study.
The main issue of climate change is whether or not it is caused by human activity.
Just because you can observe an event does not mean that you know, conclusively, the cause. The potential for plundering people, under the guise of controlling human behavior in order to affect climate change, is a huge issue.
If the true cause is the sun, for example, nothing we do on earth is going to affect the sun. However, those who can take advantage of the hysteria and fear can reap huge amount of money and power.
It takes a tremendous amount of faith in government to believe all the regulations and associated costs are justified.
-- Posted by Liveforlight on Tue, Dec 1, 2015, at 8:38 PM
'It takes a tremendous amount of faith in government to believe all the regulations and associated costs are justified.'
Doesn't require any faith at all. First year geology and third grade math are sufficient to "get it." It requires a tremendous amount of wishful thinking to believe in the nonsensical alternatives offered by the industry.
-- Posted by lazarus on Tue, Dec 1, 2015, at 10:34 PM
The climate had been changing long before humans were around and will continue to change long after we are gone. The fact that the climate changes has never been a point of contention for educated people. The cause of the change however is a point of contention for the gullible.
If old Owl Bore, I mean Al Gore, really believes all the hot air he spews about it, why does he fly all over the world in a private jet? I wonder how many centuries all the people in Shelbyville would have to drive gas guzzlers to leave the same carbon footprint of just one of Al's flights. But at least we should thank Al for being able to have this discussion using his invention.
-- Posted by fair share on Tue, Dec 1, 2015, at 11:09 PM
At this point, anyone still denying the causes and effects of climate change might as well be arguing that the earth is flat.
It doesn't matter that 150 world leaders just gathered together about it. Or the extremely long list of scientific organizations and the Academy of Sciences from 19 different countries all agree with the consensus of man made climate change.
They can still point out that Al Gore flys around in an airplane.
So it's all a hoax.
-- Posted by Rocket Valentine on Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 5:46 AM
Come now Lazarus, third grade math is all it takes to "get it"?
Your statements are more of an attempt at ridicule than a logical argument. Unless, of course, you "believe" a third grade mathematician can gather global temperature data for the last 100 yrs, analyze the global atmosphere and determine definitively that CO2, or other human activity, is causing the earth to warm.
The use of ridicule in a debate generally speaks to the weakness of ones argument. But, I hope you can see how ridiculous it is to think that first year geologists and third grade mathematicians can't reach these conclusions without putting their "faith" or "trust" in the works/analysis of others.
There is however an attribute that a third grade mathematician possesses that is applicable here. That is, an inability to think critically of those who they see as an authority. They simply believe without considering the possibly that there are alterative motives behind what they are being told. This has lead many into abuse and death.
There are plenty of reputable scientist who refute the claims of climate change, but few politicians. Wonder why?
-- Posted by Liveforlight on Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 9:55 AM
Whatcha think folks, do I need to make climate change a new post topic?
-- Posted by stevemills on Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 10:11 AM
Well Steve, this one has been all over the map and will soon go on to something else or die out.
-- Posted by fair share on Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 10:36 AM
"There are plenty of reputable scientist who refute the claims of climate change, but few politicians. Wonder why?"
That is an odd statement to make. I have yet to see a reputable scientist refute the "claims"... It seems to be only politicians (on the payroll of the industry) who do so.
And I hold to the belief that it does not require a scientist to "figure it out." Geology is not so hard to understand. Next time you drive down the road, check out the layers in the limestone when you pass thru cuts.
Every layer represents some sort of climate change, and it does not take a lot of reading to figure out how often those are related to changes in the atmospheric carbon... altho most occur over a far longer time period than is happening now. It is not hard to find out how much coal is being extracted from under the earth and burned worldwide; coal, which is mostly carbon.
The math is elementary school level, and the data is readily available.... Geology is really fascinating, but it happens over geological time, which is exceedingly hard to wrap our heads around. Mountain ranges are pushed up out of the earth, and then are worn away to nothing; over millions, tens of millions of years.
Entire continents move, at a rate so slow that 2 inches a year is virtually flying (and we can measure that movement today, it is not something we hypothesize). We humans exist in human time; 20 years for a generation; 70 for a lifetime. Any time that geological events occur within human time, the result is a catastrophe. Earthquakes are geological events, occurring in human time.
The extraction of buried carbon, and its return to the atmosphere is a geological event, and we are compressing what would have happened over millions of years, into single years. We can measure what is happening, and geological precedent clearly shows the inevitable outcome. This is not controversial science. Pretending it is, is something *only* politicians are capable of pulling off.
-- Posted by lazarus on Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 10:39 AM
'Whatcha think folks, do I need to make climate change a new post topic?'
To be honest, Steve, it is hardly worth the trouble.There are mountains of data, and it only supports one side. Fair discussion would be whether we can actually slow down the process (because it is already here), which I do not believe we can; and how to deal with the effects as they intensify.